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May 2020 on the 40th anniversary of iconic Joy Division singer Ian Curtis's death Peter Hook talks in depth about his friend and their friendship in detail
00:33 where did you get the idea to play all the Joy Division songs for the This Is Permanence Macclesfield gig
11:34 thoughts on JD now - did you know how good you were ‘only Ian Curtis knew…’
12:00 what would Ian say about current New Order situation
14:00 does every band have its own set timespan and if Ian had lived would Joy Division have ended
14:50 was Ian Curtis situation coming to a head? ‘he had sent a letter criticising Closer and rest of band to Tony which we never even knew about - he may have been preparing for a big. change in his life? Or maybe an escape from the emotion of playing and needed a rest? But he was the one who would never rest
16:15 ‘I wonder what happened that Saturday that he died to change him? on the Friday we rehearsed and we spoke on Saturday.’ What was he like in last rehearse on the Friday?
17:30 How Peter Hook received news of the death
18:22 You were set to go the America…
25:23 would New Order have been the direction musically that you would have gone in with Ian Curtis?
28:00 Were the tones and textures of the Joy Division songs affected by having Ian Curtis in the room
33.14 Did you all sense something special in eachother
35:00 I have found recordings of ‘in the city’ and ‘digital’ on rehearsal cassettes and that was the moment we made the big change from punk
35:15 Did you sense something different about Ian -
37:50 what was in a like as a person ‘he always encouraged you and stood his ground if we got attacked’
38:00 what was he like at rehearsals? Was it the same intensity of performance
39:00 ‘he had that Tescos plastic bag full of lyrics’
39:00 what was he like as a friend to hang out with go out with
43:17 Steve had goldfish pond in his drive never seen a house that big!
50:00 ‘what I love about Joy Division and early New Order was that it was not verse/chorus - it more post punk. It was just as it flowed like Disorder were Ian only does the chorus right at the end of the song
52:00 what’s it like to play those songs live now? do you have to inhabit them ?
John Robb is an award-winning journalist and boss of Louder Than War. In a 30 year music writing career, John was the first to write about bands such as Stone Roses and Nirvana and has several best selling music books to his name. He constantly tours the world with Goldblade and the Membranes playing gigs or doing spoken word and speaking at music conferences.
Website: louderthanwar....
Follow me on twitter: / johnrobb77
My band: / themembranes - เพลง
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Peter Hook seems to be the only element of JD that's left that relishes in the beauty and the cult of it. He gives the fans what they want because he feels it too. Hes not above it, he is it.. daily.
‘He gives the fans what they want’
It’s all he has.
What else is he going to give them?
New material?
@@deletebilderberg
::yawwwn:: 👌
Hells yeah...Hooky!!!
@@deletebilderberg he could, and people would doubtless love it
@@deletebilderberg I think he's honoring the life and groundbreaking achievements of Ian. Also I absolutely love his bassline in Aries by the Gorillaz!
John Robb is a national treasure. Cant imagine Manchester music scene without him
thanks Peter - very kind of you to say so
John is an absolute legend and top geezer!
@@JOHNROBBofficial Great interview! Thanks John, keep 'em coming please.
@@JOHNROBBofficial - Seen you on so many music shows and discussions over the years. Always really enjoyed your style and contributions, mate. As a scouser, I'm an enormous fan of Manchester and it's music scene. We have more in common than we have divides us. Take it easy.
@@mossga John's not a manc he's from Blackpool.
Never seen a bad Peter Hook interview. The interviews on this channel are top notch as well. It helps having someone as respected as John doing them.
Love the way John lets everybody he interviews, Talk and gets great stories out of them,doesn't interrupt just to hear his own voice,brilliant interview
He asks the question he shuts the fuck up proper interviewer
Right.
I could listen to Hooky for hours. Always interesting and always humble. Really wish the 3 remaining members of Joy Division could put their differences behind them and become friends again. Even if they never play together again, they were all a part of one of the most important and influential bands in UK music history.
He’s right when he said you can hear when Barney takes full control of songwriting on Republic. It worked for some excellent tracks like Regret but it quickly became formulaic and boring after Get Ready. I didn’t like WFTSC or Music Complete at all.
Peter Hook's always engaging.
Yes he is.
Love his books
Just when you think you got it all re- joy Division history..& you find out that little bit more.. 🧐
Hooky has a tape of ICB by Joy Division!? Let's 'ave it, Hooky!!
@Matt Hopper I reckon he's misremembering! He also said in this interview that Joy Division supported Buzzocks in Brighton which definitely didn't happen. It was more likely Bournemouth (also on England's south coast) on 2nd November 1979 where Annik Honoré said Ian Curtis walked into the sea after the gig and she wasn't sure if it was a suicide attempt.
@@crose7412 must admit I was shocked when he said that. It would be a huge thing for Joy Division fans. Hope you're not right!
I bet it exists somewhere.. he wouldn't say it if not
i had given up hearing any JD songs live. If it wasn't for Hooky who I have seen about 5 times in Toronto, and even NO did a set one year. Hooky is a good honest musician and somehow the ticket prices were not even close to other events. Just a good hardworking musician who I am eternally grateful having had the chance to see a few times.
Feel like Peter Hook has been integrated into my life since I was 17, Peter Thank you
Thanks John, that was brilliant to hear Hooky's memories.
The best 52 minutes of great JD tales 😎
Huge JD fan. I have epilepsy too so can relate to alot of what Ian went through regarding his health. I'd of love to have to have seen JD live but was only about 7 or 8 at their height. Thank you to you both for an engaging interview.
Once missed a New Order concert because of an epileptic seizure the night before. The irony....
Excellent interview, thanks. Some fascinating details here. What I like about Hooky is that he's so open and accessible. He really lets his fans into Joy Division and we can begin to understand what it was like for them. I have been a fan since I was 17 and at that time I knew nothing about the circumstances surrounding Ian's death. The only info I had was in the excellent book An Ideal For Living which just hinted at an "unusual set of circumstances" that led to his suicide and for years the enigma behind it all gave the music an incredible power in my mind. What's amazing is that I recently went to art college as a mature student and Kelvin Briggs was the uncle of a mate I met there. He came to our degree show and I got to meet him. Joy Division have been such a huge influence on my life and my art and I'd never have thought I'd get to meet Ian's best mate. It makes you realise though how real it all is. It's not just some rock and roll mythological tale. It's ordinary blokes from Macclesfield who experienced a huge tragedy and lost their mate. And who knows what we all lost... What might have followed Closer?? I guess the band must have wondered that too. Dammit, Ian!
For no other reason other than it earns him an income.
@@deletebilderberg cynic much? I don't suppose it could ge because he loves the music?
Suicide is unbelievably sad.
I have been a Joy Division anorak for 40 years and this is the best interview I have heard. As soon as it finishes I am going to brew up, and listen to it again.
"anorak"? And "brew up"? Not sure what you're on about, but it sounds lovely. Cheers!
@@brianmcmanus4690 'Anorak' = obsessive, named after the coat preference of trainspotters.
'Brew up' = make a cup of tea - an essentially British activity. Hope that helps.
Anoraknophobia
I never meant to put a thumbs down
Great interveiw. Peter Hook seems like such a down to earth guy. So much respect
I saw Peter and the light in 2016 in France, and it was the first time that I saw a Joy Division member in flesh and bones ! I'm 5 decades and was too young too see JD in concer ; i discovered them the first time i smoked weed, at 14 years old, I listened Closer 10 time petrified by the joint on the ground and hallucinated by the beauty of the music ! I'm a JD addict since that epoch ! I'm doing a Joy Divison session every 2 or 3 days !
Thank you Robb and Peter for that interesting exchange !
I wish he would create new material. He has always had a great talent for catchy bass lines.
Best interview about Joy Division, bar none.
Thankyou John
I have been a jd ,no,,light fan and a manchester music fan all my life im 57 now,i live in Australia never been to Manchester,, its a holy place to me hope to get there one day ..stuff like this means a lot to me,, cheers mate..
What a lovely man. Talking about the lack of intensity when comparing JD to NO.
Fantastic interview. The last Joy Division gig on May 4th was recorded and is part of Still sides 3 & 4. Peter says it wasn't very good! It's what got me into Joy Division in 1983. I think its brilliant. Such a shame few other gigs were recorded properly! What have we missed.. oh to have a time machine..
I know this interview is about Ian Curtis but I recently watched again the 30 minute Granada Reports tribute to Tony Wilson from 2007 on You Tube which was broadcast after he died. It is very moving and charts his idiosyncratic career as music mogul and television presenter on Granada Television, a regional station based in Manchester. He was truly one of a kind, fiercely intelligent, loyal to Manchester and always keen to promote the city and backed his artists, refusing to rip them off.
The documentary plays out with 'Atmosphere' by Joy Division and it is truly moving. He refused to pay privately for a cancer drug that might have prolonged his life due to his dedication to the National Health Service, even though he could have gone private if he wanted to. His socialist principles ruled it out and in the last months of his life he campaigned for the drug to be made available free on the NHS. He also co-presented Up Front on Granada, a debate programme in the late eighties and early nineties, where his intellect was in its element as he played ringmaster.
A lot of people did not take Tony Wilson seriously and certainly took him for granted but when he died and ever since there has been widespread recognition of his importance to Manchester music. Peter Savile who designed record sleeves for Factory also designed the headstone for Tony Wilson's grave in a fitting gesture. Dave Haslam has some interesting things to say about Tony Wilson in his book Life After Dark, in which he essays the history of nightclubs and venues in Britain, including the Hacienda, where he was a resident DJ in the late eighties. A great book.
Great read that, cheers.
Well said mate. Tony left us far too early. I've read many books on Tony, and Factory Records. Lindsay Reade wrote 'Mr Manchester and the factory girl.' It is brilliantly written, and very insightful regarding Tony and his life.
@@matty7dream1 Thanks Scott. I knew she had written a book about Tony but I have not read it. I may do now. I thought he was brilliant on Granada Reports ( I grew up in the catchment area) and Up Front which he co-presented with Lucy Meacock. It was controlled mayhem ( he may even have described it as that) on a Friday night when the pubs were turning out. Great television with his intellectualism worn lightly but steering the debate.
" It is not rock , it´s not punk ... " - it´s JOY DIVISION ! - Those songs can never fit into any category/label , try and categorize something such as " Atrocity Exhibition " ... for a few geezers in their early 20s to have written such songs is mindboggling . Living legend , great interview !!!!
Great interview John. I could listen to Peter talking for hours, such great insight, he always has such huge respect for Ian. Thank you for uploading it John, really appreciated.
What a brilliant interview by two Manchester treasures. Hooky is really open and engaging and John asks the right questions
Really enjoying the interview so far. I can't help realise that Peter Hook in interviews has had to relive the death of Ian Curtis over and over again. I know Joy Division are unbelievable and they were ground breaking, but that myth of Ian Curtis follows him everywhere, it seems.
Great questions though, and I love that Hooky really gives the time to the answer.
Just stumbled across this video
Probably the best interview I’ve seen about one of the most special bands ever
Well done and thanks to both of you
Yes it is the best interview.
1st photo I saw as a 16 year old kid of him in uncut or mojo top 50 rock stars that died
i've never heard hooky speak as candid and unflinchingly about ian. he recounts events with such clarity and with a narrative i've not heard from the others.
great interview! saw peter in toronto (2019 tour) - it was blue monday that blew my young teenaged mind - unlike anything i had ever heard before. i took up synthesizers. i started playing bass guitar, and his style has had a lasting influence in how i go about it. peter is legend! 🎸
Amazing interview, The interviewer doesn't interrupt and doesn't be irritating and the subject the whole way view is fascinating
Brilliant interview, I love Peter Hook and Joy Division, and John really facilitated this interview very well.
Nice interview as always John, with plenty of insightful questions. Hooky talking about 'That's another one off Ian's list' is really sweet - what a guy.
Thank you John a really insightful, mature and intimate interview. I was fortunate enough as a young man to see Joy Division live during their Buzzcock’s support in 1979 and still think their appearance on Something Else stands as a remarkable moment in music history akin to seeing the pistols on TOTP with pretty vacant. Who can ever forget the first time they heard unknown pleasures. And, to think all those great songs came out of a Tesco’s bag of lyrics ! Thank you to Peter and the Light for what they continue to do and of course to 4 young men who really captured the zeitgeist and mood of the time.
What a comfortable informative interview ! And to tell you the truth the interview isn’t like one , it could be a conversation across a pub table .
I think that someone said that was what a good interview should be like.
It might have been Parkinson or Alan Wicker..David Frost??
The interviewer is patient
What a wonderful interview! I feel that Hooky really preserves and celebrates Ian’s life. Bernard and Stephen I feel, hold onto the sadness of it in a way. As someone who was in the womb at the time of Ian’s passing, I’m really grateful to Peter Hook for allowing us to hear this music played live with someone who was there from the start. Thanks Hooky!
Epilepsy was a largely hidden illness in those days, the joy division members were all so young, the stigma around epilepsy made it difficult to talk about let alone treat it, if the same situation occurred now, I think the outcome would have been so different Joy Division would be one of the greatest bands in the world
That's so true. How would any of them, Ian included, really know how to deal with it?
And to add to this, the pharmaceuticals they were attempting to treat it with were apparently INTENSE. Poor Ian. I hope he found some peace, and hope somehow he knows what he gave to so many of us.
The word "iconic" was designed to describe this band. Utter genius, fuckin' godhead.
Peter Hook is like wine from good grapes grown in poor soil. He's getting better with age.
@distantvoices Ian Botham??? HA HA, what the fuck has Ian fucking Botham got to do with anything?
TrainInVain how do you go from the bass player in JD and New Order, to a washed up old bigot?
@distantvoices Say WHA???
@@davidroberts7413 who cares if someone is a bigot? What the fuck do you care what other people think? These SJW are ridiculous.
@@sratus In the House of Lords as a Conservative nominate peer. About as far away as it gets from the streets of Manchester apart from Mars.
Thank you John and Peter for this. Such a wonderful interview.
Tank you John. Thank you Hooky.
thank you john, hooky is the last pillar of JOY DIVISION
Thank you for this testimony.
Interviews like this very present one reduce the sadness of not being old enough at that times.
Regarding Ian, what Hooky should know is that when a person has mental capacity (this is from a professional carer) they have the capacity to make unsafe and unwise decisions, and you don't have the right to do anything but advise. It's frustrating, and sometimes dangerous, but you can't make decisions for them. It just have been so difficult for you all. Much love.
So good. So insightful. So sad. And yet so uplifting and inspirational. Thank you both for sharing.
What a great interview- it was so conversational but very thorough and detailed. Around 14:50 of the interview, Peter mentions something about Ian writing a letter to Factory that was critical of the album Closer and of the band. I have never heard this before- was this something that recently came to light? Well done John!
thanks Shane, Hooky has mentioned very briefly this letter to me before in passing - was interesting to hear more about it. Puts a very different slant on things. I'll try and find out more.
Information about this letter can be found here: cerysmatic.factoryrecords.org/2010/08/isolation.html
I saw a picture of this letter somewhere, not sure if it was a JD fan page on FB or some other Google news site, but a pic of it is out there somewhere,
This letter was in volume 1 of Stephen Morris' memoir.
@@TheArpomni2 I remember seeing a copy of it in the So This Is Permanence book. What cracked me up about it was that is was a single sentence rant that one can tell if serious or not.
Oh God, this is deep. As someone who suffers from mental illness when you gain control again after an episode and can function normally you just want to blend in and act and behave like everything is normal because you don't want to burden other people with your problems that they can't help you with. Just being there, being a friend, and having fun with them is the best remedy they can provide. I get why Ian acted the way he did around his bandmates; he didn't want to let them down.
Another Hooky gem interview. I could listen to the stories forever. Nice one John. ❤️
Great interview, to here these inner details and stories direct from source.
Best interview I've ever seen of Peter Hook and one of the best interviews I've ever seen about Joy Division. Brilliant.
Thanks Peter - really appreciated.
Great interview, he speaks quite eloquently and with clarity, what an adventure wow
Brilliant interview. Hooky's magic. Didn't know any of that stuff about when Ian was living at his gran's at Stretford. Interesting insight (see what I did there...) about Ian Curtis seeing the talent in Hooky, Bernard and Steve - of course Ian couldn't have done what he did in Joy Division without them....thanks for posting
Fabulous interview. Pure gold
A really interesting talk/chat/ interview. Something good about covid19 - and a great interview pair. Thx; I came across JD in America at 14 in 1983; I decided I liked it best of all my music because it demanded I learn to like it; it wasn’t written to please me.
Really enjoyed this.
He's got a really good memory I think I'll get his joy d book
i just love that kind of musician,plain and simple,down to the earth
What an interview, im in AWE of this. Thank you so much !!
This is a great interview and a joy to watch. Thanks for sharing.
Great interview, I have seen some performances on TH-cam of the light playing joy division, I think it's great that these songs are being played and enjoyed the performances I've seen.
Had the pleasure of meeting Peter after the opening night of the Fact251.
Such a cool bloke and his son is brilliant.
Such a nice guy.
Thank you so much for this! These insights are fantastic and something I haven't heard mentioned before, been a fan for 10 years now
Thanks for this John ( + Peter )
Fantastic, riveting interview.
What is it about the Manchester musical heritage ?
Guys like Peter Hook, Johnny Marr, Jimi Goodwin etc.
could listen to their insight for hours !
I see both John Robb and Hooky regularly around town in Manchester
40 years. Hard to believe.
ace, thank you. Viva RG for being a member of the band...just the way it should be. I`d love to hear Robb interviewing Kris Needs, please.
thats a great idea...
Inherited trauma is an acknowledged condition, these days. I find I want to know more about Ian’s parents. Both were Irish. My Father was Irish , but perhaps a little younger. His family was troubled (but mostly silent) about the War of Independence. It was close to these peoples experiences and worth exploring in terms of the lyrics.
Great interview Mr Robb. Enjoyed it greatly. Your best work since Tatty Seaside Town. 😉
So glad to have found this 💓👌🏻
Hook is the warmest, most compelling and likeable out of NO...
Morris and Morris are okay and so is Sumner. But I enjoy a Hook interview.
Cheers.
This made my day ☺️ Great stuff 👌🏻
Well done John Robb 😜
Great seeing Hooky in Atlanta.. his band is very tight.
Wow what a lucky people that got to be there for that church show...
Great interview - Met Peter years ago - great guy.
National treasures both.
Excellent Interview John 😍
Brilliant
Still is my favourite cd
Thanks for this. Loved your Stewart Lee interview, as well. I remember hearing of the death of Ian Curtis, at the time, on John Peel's show, on Radio One. It was horrible. I can barely imagine what it must of been like, for those who actually new him, personally. One never seems to hear anything from Ian's family. Parents, or siblings. Deborah's book, Touching From A Distance, is quite moving. I remember a tv documentary, where Natalie, his daughter, now grown up, ofcourse, went to visit the bridge, in Manchester, which has been named after him. One is never quite sure what to make of Hookie's version of the story. He always comes across as very open, honest, down ro earth, but one always wonders how much of all this is a practised pretense. Also, some if his comments, especially about Bernard and Gillian, and Stephen, come across as a bit bitchy. Sour grapes, maybe. Anyway, whatever the truth of it all, I will always love the music of Joy Division and New Order. At their best, there is nothing,and noone, quite like it. I would also like to recommend Bernard Sumner's memoir. Well worth a look. He suggests, in there, that people decide for themselves which version of events, regarding Hookie falling out with the other three band members, to believe, listening to what he says, and then watching what he actually does. 🥰✌️😎
Hi Christopher. I am a JD fan of long standing too. I think Hooky was quite bullish in his younger years. That isn't a crime but it cab rub people up the wrong way. I personally believe the other 3 were a bit jealous of the attention Ian received, and of his relationship with Annik Honore, the Belgian journalist. Ian was suffering enough already, and could well have done without this, dare I say it, resentment. The song lyrics on 'Closer' tell there own story. Poor, poor Ian. I consider JD to be the greatest British band of all time. Knowing the truth about the Beatles etc. and how they never wrote the songs or played the instruments, makes JD achievements all the more remarkable in my view. They truly were an organic band. I'm going to keep listening, and keep watching all the DVD's on Factory records, and JD until the end. I feel they are a big part of my life.
Brilliant john..Mark Fizz x
We need to see you again in Hawaii.
Far be it from me to claim to know what Ian dealt with, but I get the impression he really tried to put on a brave face for those around him. It also seems like he tried to be a positive influence on his bandmates rather than dragging them down with him.
Have you seen/heard the state of New Order nowadays? Thank God for Hooky and The Light.
Couldn't agree more. Saw Hook n the Light at Sign Of The Times festival as well as the Mondays. Absolutely spun my nut man. Top 5 gigs ever.
Hooky even, arguably, sings better than both the other two.
...saw New Order at the O2 arena. Shite. I barely recognised any of the tracks.
No atmosphere whatsoever.
Joy Division will never Die will never burn out John I can imagine you in Mad Max you would be a great character 😜
Peter describes the 'hermetic' nature of Joy Division's legacy. Interestingly and I have heard this elsewhere Ian had a duality of attitude to the future. Perhaps, and this is my take on it. Perhaps Ian couldn't face letting his band mates down. I love Peter's honouring of Ian's legacy.
Interesting to hear Hooky talk about Movement here. It's a great album only let down by some dodgy vocals (although that's forgivable under the circumstances). It would take a few recordings before Bernard finally found his voice. I've always thought that a "third" Joy Division album would have sounded very much like Movement. Going even further ahead, I don't think it takes much of a stretch of the imagination to hear Ian Curtis' voice on Blue Monday.
Really interesting interview
Great stuff!
Well done John. I hope to meet you touring the states once this bullshit is over
I'm struck by how much Peter Hook looks like Robert McNeil.
I never knew that track icb was joy Division, because it's about Ian Curtis ( RIP), on Movement album.🤔
I take it that Peter, his more opinionated than the other members of new order about taking about Ian.
It must of been so frustrating for Hooky, after Rob Gretton died (RIP), because Bernard knew he could carry on with solo projects and Electronic music.
I don't think Ian Curtis, would let Bernard make decisions about recording in the studio.
It doesn't seem fair to me that a band with diplomatic ideas in their own principles can argue
Over music.
Yes, people do change and you have to respect their wishes.
It was the same with Ian McCulloch & Will Sergeant, from Echo/Bunnymen.🤷♂️
Nothing last forever
Great interview. Not sure what is in focus.
Hooky 😍
Barney, Hooky, Steve, Ian, Factory, Hannet, In a wilderness. It was akin to a military junta. All the stars aligned. Bedroom playing instruments (not musicians). I just suppose its a magic. But the potion has to be correct some times.
Corr isn't this good.
John Robb using his time to get this stuff out.
And taking the time to type that list of features
thanks Chris - just trying to make it all a pleasurable experience! stay tuned plenty more to come!
@@JOHNROBBofficial I've seen most of your interviews with musicians on TH-cam John!Always interesting what you get out of them!Great stuff thanks!
👍🏻
15:52 what trouble is he talking about?
What was written in the letter to tony w .????
25:53 ICB was written by Bernard Sumner after Ian Curtis died so he can't have it by Joy Division. And ICB stands for Ian Curtis Buried.
I think Hooky said that they had the riff not the lyrics and title perhaps mate ?
At 47:28, what does he say the name of the song is? “Alias”? I can’t find that anywhere so maybe I’m misunderstanding him.
Failures?
Has he got any joy Division oven gloves?