Air over leaf suspension//Deep dive and installation; Shoebox Ford Ep25
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- #airoverleaf #airsuspension #bagged
Did you know there's an alternative to link suspensions in air-bagged cars and trucks? It's called air over leaf! It's cheaper, it's easier and requires little to no fabrication skills BUT it comes with some major warnings and trade-offs. Today we deep dive into air over leaf suspensions and Jake installs a Ridetech setup on the back end of his shoebox Ford!
Kit used: www.ridetech.c...
2500# bags (lower cost but good option): amzn.to/3UrNf1J
2500# bags (Airlift Brand): amzn.to/3UrNf1J
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I have a lowered 68 charger. With just me in the car it’s fine. One person in the back seat and I get a little tire rub. I want to put in an air helper spring just for those times when I’m carrying stuff in trunk or passengers. Excellent video!
This is where air-over-leaf really shines, definitely do it man!
Almost there almost there takes for ever to drop it lol
HAHA it's sooooo slow to drop.
@@DadModsMedia lol
when you remove the leafs the axle wrap becomes more pronounced. this is what causes the monoleaf fracture problems at the axle mounting point not to mention the wheel hop problems that arise. a ladder bar is recommended with this mod.
I wonder if a ladder bar would cause any binding.
But regardless it's a good idea to have some kind of secondary link if you're on a monoleaf.
I personally have no experience with a monoleaf setup but from the photos I've seen, it looks awfully questionable how some people run them.
Sweet! Thanks for the vid! I’m restoring a chopped 49 shoebox and I think I’ll go with your setup. Put some skirts on and give the illusion of it being even lower!
Oh nice, is it a chopped Tudor?
Yeah air over leaf works surprisingly well in my car. It lowers very slowly and requires drop blocks to go really low. I'd say if you removed 2 or 3 leaves on each side and ran a 3" block you may be able to trim bump stocks and get really low.
I strongly suggest running traditional bags like I did as well. It rides amazing and has much better travel.
Good information! I started a 49 chevy coupe and a lot of this will transfer over should I decide to go low". Enjoyed the video man!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it man!
My challenge is bagging the front end with leaf springs. The suspension on my 38 Chevy is terrible but I’m on a budget
My understanding is the front ends on those cars are usually stubbed by using a more modern clip. I've seen Gbody and Mustang II clips working well. I don't know enough about a leaf spring front axle to make any recommendations outside of doing a clip. Jiminez Brothers do make a clip for that car, I'd suggest giving them a call and asking what they recommend based on your budget. Maybe they know a way to safely run air without a full clip. They are gurus
Might be a ridiculous question but can you go super low without notching?
On a shoebox, I think with the right combination of drop blocks and a few pulled leaves I bet you could get the axle to the frame, which is low but definitely not laying frame.
But then you are really compromising pinion angle and risk axle wrap under hard acceleration.
If you want to fully dump one of these things I'd suggest the Shoebox Central 2 link kit. It's a bit of fab work but that kit gets the frame on the ground.
On my 51 club coupe i have a fatman/jamco setup that drops my frontend..the bottom of my front bumper is 7" from the ground full travel. Working on a bagged setup for the rear, step notch necessary!
That sounds awesome! You doing a 2 or 4 link in the back?
@@DadModsMedia don't know yet, what's your suggestion?
Both have their benefits and drawbacks. 4 links require floor modification below the back seat.
There's only one person I've talked to so far that's done a 4 link and been able to the leave the floors and that was with a parallel 4link setup. Most people do a triangulated 4 link which means floor cutting.
2 link seems to be the easiest method but does also have some drawbacks.
2 links means a fixed pinion. So as the suspension moves so does the pinion angle. This is not ideal but I don't think it's a huge problem.
4 link allows the best articulation and the pinion angle maintains its angle through the suspension travel. 4 link is best practice. 2 link is sufficient and easier.
Off subject: I have a 1949 Ford custom. Looks like same color. No plate in the door jam. Do you know the color or the color#. Thanks William
Interesting 🤔 I actually have a 76 Ford Maverick rear end just cause I running a 350 sbc combo. I heard you say it might snapped but does the drop lock actually work? I heard different.
What about replacing the leafs with drop leafs? Are they designed to take care of this issue?
Drop Leaf springs instead of drop blocks and leaf removal from original packs?
I think it all depends on your goals, if you want to get the car slammed for parking you're going to need a lot of travel in the suspension (soft suspension). A full leaf pack will have resistance in both vertical directions, whether it's a drop pack or not. Especially downward. When you remove a few leafs from the original pack you get a softer pack that allows the car to drop lower, you then use the air bag to inflate the car up to an appropriate height for driving.
If you used a drop leaf pack (w/o removing any leafs) it wouldn't allow you to go any lower than the 3 inch drop but you would be able to use an air bag to raise it a little before getting too much resistance from the leaf pack.
If you started with a drop leaf pack then removed leafs until you get your desired static drop, then used the air bag to raise it.... I suppose that may be another option.
I hope this makes sense.
I've got a 49 shoebox it's all original I'm wanting to put a 98 mustang gt engine and Trans in
Mod motors are great! It's a big engine but I've heard of them fitting before.
Your drilling with that angle drive lol
Does it have front air suspension ????????
Sure does.
I was thinking about doing this to my Nissan Hardbody as a temporary setup while I am learning to weld.
Do it up! My piece of advice though, is to not allow the leaf pack to go beyond flat and invert it's arc. It's when leaf packs are pushed that far is when they start cracking and breaking.
Do the hardbody trucks have the axle mounted to the top or bottom of the leaf pack?
@@DadModsMedia it is on top right now I have 3 inch blocks on it
@@The_Bearded_B I did a quick google of the d22 and it looks like you can get those super low with a mono-leaf and 4 inch block without the leaf inverting. I would for sure do air if it was my truck. Just keep in mind that you are relying on that single leaf to keep the axle in place, so I'd inspect it regularly for signs of cracking and expect some decent axle wrap.
New to your channel> Great video Thank you for sharing. SUBSCRIBED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Not knowing why it isnt done this way but wondering why the bag isn't in front of axel to go against the tramp? In the back it would be pulled down. Another way would be remove the block and the support leaves so you just have the one that is locating everything and let the bag set the height. Probably a good idea to leave one extra leaf on each side for more stability of axel.
Great question. My original goal was to install them in the front of the axle but there was not adequate space. The problem is the Ford's frame in that area has an up-swing that is pretty close to the axle so the area where the bag and brackets would go it on that up-swing sloped portion.
Monoleaf is a very common method and I discuss this quite a bit in the video and the concern I raise is safety. More leafs mean a more stable pack. The issue many people make with running a monoleaf setup is they allow it to invert from it's original arc so they can get as low as possible. Doing this causes stress cracks over time and with enough abuse it will snap.
Hey man, are you still running the traverse leaf in the front? Liked what you did. I have a 48 business coupe.
The factory front end of the 49-51 Fords run a coil spring, control arm and king-pin arrangement. But I chopped the front clip off my car and did an S10 frame stub.
48 coupe is so pretty! I love that era
Awesome video!! I want to drop my 60 T-bird and have no idea how leaf springs with bags work, thanks for the info!
Hey glad it was helpful!
Thanks for sharing, I have a 38 Chevy sedan that I wanted the means to lower and raise the ride height. I have 4” lowering blocks in the rear but you scared me straight in the front as I did remove all but one leaf in the front. I haven’t taken her in the road and won’t at this point as I did have concerns about the lack of support on the single leaf. My 38 suspension is terrible at best and I’m not sure this car will ever see the highway but who knows
I think your best bet for the front end is to rebuild it with a Mustang II front stub kit. A quick google shows that the kits are pretty affordable (under $2k). Doing a conversion like that will provide a much more stable, modern design that you can feel confident driving at highway speeds. Plus you can get the ride height you want this way.
That's my 2 cents anyway.
My 1950 had a horrendous front steering system and I did an S10 clip. It was the best thing I've ever done to the car.
Damn dude, about time you come out with another video. Lol
Yeah it's been a minute. This one took some work to develop BUT it's also been a hectic couple months.
I'm hoping to be back on track to get out more regular videos again.
Now this is for an old worn out S10 project. I want to add air springs and use a mono leaf to position the axle. Will this work no lowering blocks
I discuss leaf spring safety in the video with regards to removing leafs from the pack. Personally, I'm very skeptical of a monoleaf setup because of the bending and flexing you are forcing them to do all while relying solely on these monoleafs to locate and secure your axle to the chassis.
If I was building an S10 to slam, I'd 4 link it or check into truck arms/panhard bar setups.
Nice video found it while looking at my options for my 56 Chevy. I want to keep the leafs for cost and simplicity.
One thing to consider if you want to eliminate axle wrap is using a traction bar setup like CalTracs.
Yeah I've wondered what a caltrac would do for an added support. It will probably limit some movement which may make it harder for the car to drop but that may simply be a matter of sizing your caltrac correctly. It's worth trying
@@DadModsMedia I have a set on my slammed square body (static no air, axle flip) and noticed no change in ride.
What does the new exhaust setup/reroute look like?
Where in the US are you located? I have a 50 Mercury I'm looking to do the same setup on before we move to Germany later this year!
In Minnesota. You hauling the Merc to Germany?
@@DadModsMedia DOD job, US government pays to ship one vehicle!!! I'm in northern Iowa (Waterloo)
Funny my Shoebox came from IA (drawing blank on little town, maybe Boone).
DOD job eh? Nice, they hiring? Lol
Check out the Ridetech website. They have the kit that includes the smaller sleeve bags but I'm sure you could call and request a 2500 bag instead in that kit and install it like mine.
@@DadModsMedia yeah, Boone is a little north and west from me. DOD is always hiring. I'll be a programmer for the google maps of the NATO forces 😂
You plan on bringing the shoebox to Vintage Torque Fest in May? (Dubuque IA first weekend of May.)
Damn sounds like some serious responsibility. Congrats man that's a pretty rad job.
As far as Vintage Fest goes, that does sound like a good time. I better get that on the calendar and see if I can pull it off. You bringing the Merc?
Oh, I got PTSD when I saw the sleeves and aaid noooo out loud. But was so relieved when you grabbed them ol double bubble bags. Sleeves are so trash! I had them on my car, granted it was a daily driver for over 5 years. But those sleeves scrunch up when Deflated. Don't always roll into them selves as designed. Which means these creases become cracks that split and next thing you know, your fender drops down onto your rim stopping your car dead. I like this set up. Would love to replace my air shocks with that for more adjustment. Great video and car!
I enjoyed this video😅
So, that bracket and hardware will hold the weight of the car? The bracket looks a little flimsy
The bracket is a 1/4 plate and I haven't noticed any changes on my vehicle which included towing a camper behind it.
You never showed hooking up the compressor and air tank
Hey Lee, I didn't cover that portion in this video because the front end was already running bags. Here's the video where I cover the manual air management installation: th-cam.com/video/2b6BmGsPvBk/w-d-xo.html
Hey Dadmod! I like your set up. I think I’m going to copy it. Do you have a supplier for the brackets only? I will use the Firestone bags like you and I don’t want to buy the whole kit and keep those extra bags around.
You could try calling Ridetech and see if they will sell just the brackets. That's who sells the whole kit.
Thanks will try that
@@mactigarcia Yeah hopefully that works out. But I would have to think someone sells the brackets on their own.
Cool video Thanks ive seen those ridetech systems before what kind of valving and air tank are you using ? . I have a old ford truck that i did a axle flip 6" and it has 4.5" drop beams in the front .
They sell a bag kit to replace the springs im familiar with routing the line front the tank to the valve then valve to T fitting then to each bag although they use these tricky valves now adays . Im around semi trucks so usually it goes to a single valve push up air up push down air down .
My shoebox is running all independent manual-valves to each corner. So each bag has it's own up and down air control, which is all ran off of a simple 4 gallon tank and single Viair compressor.
Sounds like the system I'm running is probably pretty close to what you're familiar with.
Here's all the pieces I'm using:
th-cam.com/video/vx6o7kBqys4/w-d-xo.html
Love the car. I want to get a shoebox myself one day
They are great cars, you definitely should!
Air the bag up when taking rear wheel off!
You can actually over-extend the bags if you inflate without compressing force on them.
Super helpful thanks.
I'm looking a 51 shoebox right now and this really answered my questions on air ride. I'd like to lay frame but that gonna entail a link setup.
Exactly right. Funny thing is I've seen one person actually put a shoebox on the ground using air over leaf but he did extensive work (changing mount locations, de-arching, altering shackles and removing leafs). So at that point I'm not sure why one wouldn't just do a 2 link with a panhard bar.
@@DadModsMedia especially since you can get a complete 2 or even a 4 link for under $2500 these days.
Yeah Jiminez Brothers makes a very nice 2 link setup for the shoebox.
I'm also waiting on the release of the Shoebox Central kit which is supposed to be available this year. I'll be going that route. Shoebox Central is a gift to the community and gets my $$
Thank U very for the step by step, your time and experience
My pleasure Roy! Glad it was helpful
I don't like the idea of drilling holes through frame rails and bolting through them like that. Seems like the holes are gonna oval themselves over time.
That's a reasonable question, and I would guess its why the brackets from Ridetech have 5 holes you can use.
Just keep in mind that the leaf springs do also support some weight in an air over leaf configuration where you retain multiple leaves like mine.
On a mono leaf setup you're strictly using the leaf for axle placement and the bags support the full weight. With mine, the leaf pack provides some support.
The trade off is the suspension drops slower to your parking stance but the benefit is a more in-tact leaf pack (more weight support, less axle wrap under load and better side load support).
If you're still concerned you can absolutely weld the bracket in and you will be mint 🙂
the back should drop as much as the front drops when aired out .. the back sits way too high aired out
In the video I explain this.
It's possible to get the car lower with a taller drop block. Mine is only using a 2" block and 4" blocks are available.
Long term plan is to do a a torque arm link setup like my Camaro, then redo the inner fenders up front and install drop ball joints.
Thanks great explaination
Thanks Lauren, glad it was helpful!
Have tought of doing a widing around the tire on the car not kit but riding by self
Widing
What push start kit is on it if you dont mind me asking? or is that not a push start more a flip switch?
Hey Nick, it's actually just a momentary switch by Billet Automotive Buttons that's wired in place of the starter pole on the key switch.
Do you have the link it’s not working
I tested all the links and they worked for me. Which part are you looking for?
Awesome ole Ford
Thank you!
Is that a load assist system? Air shock?
Air over leaf is used for load assist/leveling but also it can be used as a method to "bag" your vehicle.
Bump
What air bag kit did u go with
Check the description for links to the components I used. Video explains why I tossed the sleeve bags and went with a pair of 2500# double bellows.
Are u running no struts
There are shocks mounted just forward of the axle on the 1949-51 Ford cars. I installed the shocks just before the clip at 19:45
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