Bach’s Maddening Wizardry Explained in 10 Minutes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มิ.ย. 2021
- A short video about Bach’s contrapuntal ingenuity, presented by composer Samuel Andreyev.
MUSICAL EXCERPT USED IN THIS VIDEO
Adagio from the D minor oboe concerto, BWV 1059
Heinz Holliger, oboe
Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields
Iona Brown, conductor
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lol all that searching for where to buy Etherin's poetry when I could've just clicked "see more"
definitely going to buy some of his stuff! The Utu Sonnets sound fascinating :O
I added a link in the video description for anyone who would like to order Anthony Etherin's extraordinary books. Christian Bök's amazing 'Eunoia' as well as the more recent Xenotext, are available from Coach House Books.
@@samuel_andreyev 'Ella Minnow Pea' by Mark Dunn is an interesting exercise in increasing restraint: chapter by chapter the letters of the alphabet are banned.
Forgivee that I ask, but could there have been any other way?
I'm buying them now too...
I'm a musicologist with close to 40 years under my belt try to "explain" Bach's genius. It is impossible. All we can do see the results of his genius, at best. And you've done a fine job here.
Thank you, your comment is most appreciated.
Lord forgive me, it just boggles my mind that it's possible
It's possible, there're already books analysing the fugues of Bach, like from Art Of The Fugue.
There is a book called Gödel Escher Bach which uncovers some of it
@@Reino_X I had that book 40yrs ago but wasn't intelligent enough to read it. I wish I still had it, I might be smarter now.
Now, pretty please, explain his maddening wizardry in 10 hours.
I FOUND THE MOST IMPORTANT COMMENT ON TH-cam
… in the first ten seconds he tells us that nothing like this is possible in ten minutes. Music theory click bait. This seems unfair (lol for
Ha! Made me laugh!
Another constraint is that this composition has to be played by two hands. There must have been so many occasions when Bach had to change the natural or ideal course of a phrase to make it playable.
It's truly refreshing to see a music commentator for whom music and art are not value neuter, but sources of new understanding and knowledge. It's impossible to imagine any of the more widely viewed commentators suggesting a communion with the divine in the experience of a work of art. You're refusing to follow the profit motive, and engaging and helping others to engage with what is truly necessary for us as human beings: it's heroic, honestly.
I am always left amazed by the emotional content in his music, even with the structural constraints.
Amen.
What do you mean by structural constraints? A very organized rhythm?
Also do you listen to Bill Evans? I see your profile picture
Which is your favorite music from him?
Mine is Nardis, but I also like Walkin' up, Waltz for Debby (original and the other mode)
@@gergelyozsvar9890 He certainly doesn’t mean ”a very organized rhythm”... There are too many structural constraints to even list, that Bach adhered to. I think the video itself goes into some detail on it, and comparing with other fields, such as poetry or what have you. The even crazier thing is that Bach would sometimes ”break” those constraints, without suffering from the negative effects that is expected from it. IE it ”should” not work, but Bach somehow makes it work anyway... I can’t claim to understand HOW he does it, it’s crazy mind-boggling.
" All great art is like a wild beast: tamed." (Wittgenstein) Constraints are a necessary condition for making any art but especially great art. It's only the legacy of romanticism that makes people think otherwise.
Who is that in your pfp?
Violinist daughter in 7th grade: "I hate Bach because he drank beer, had lots of children, and wrote hard music."
Eventually she changed her mind about beer and children. Not sure about music.
Honesty from the innocence of youth hahaha
I really loved your analysis. It isn’t that I haven’t studied composition or analysis for years. But Bach’s work can engage in so many ways including wonderful lectures full of ideas as well as excruciating formal analysis in exams. Two years ago I listened to the Variations for 4 hours a day repeatedly on two consecutive days. This was while driving. Listening was, in a way, like a journey through a forest with something new coming to attention at almost random moments for me. The overwhelming sensation or consciousness was often like being in a wonderful bath of vast human experience (every thought and emotion resolved) but I was ultimately just aware of a sense of overwhelming total perfection which became a deep spiritual experience. That wasn’t what I was expecting. I did think how amazed Bach might be at his global popularity! Thank you for sharing the love.
I could only dream of describing such masterpieces so eloquently. Thank you for this video!
I like how he includes words in German and French so seamlessly.
Real
I greatly appreciate the analysis of Bach. Well done, Samuel. What ALWAYS intrigued me is how young Bach decided to walk out from the city of Arnstadt to make the gruelling journey (on foot) to Lübeck, almost 400 km (600 miles) north. Why did he do this? To hear some music by an organist - a 68-year-old organist, Dietrich Buxtehude. Most of us wouldn't care enough about a task to drive there. Bach WALKED it.
I could listen to this gentleman all day long even when I have no idea what he's saying.
Me too!
the beauty of Bach's music is how the better you get to know it, the more it reveals to you
Good presentation. In many ways, Bach's music is the culmination of the Rennaisance tradition, especially the Franco-Flemish tradition, embodied in works like Josquin's Missa l'homme armé super voces musicales, or Forestier's canonic Missa l'homme armé (super voces musicales), etc., with their various types of puzzle canons.
Excellent and thanks plus I'll certainly be giving Etherin a try.
A personal favourite example of restraint enhancing creativity is the sonnet 'Washington Crossing the Delaware' by David Shulman:
A hard, howling, tossing water scene.
Strong tide was washing hero clean.
"How cold!" Weather stings as in anger.
O Silent night shows war ace danger!
The cold waters swashing on in rage.
Redcoats warn slow his hint engage.
When star general's action wish'd "Go!"
He saw his ragged continentals row.
Ah, he stands - sailor crew went going.
And so this general watches rowing.
He hastens - winter again grows cold.
A wet crew gain Hessian stronghold.
George can't lose war with's hands in;
He's astern - so go alight, crew, and win!
where every line is an anagram of the title.
I'm excited about Bach as you are. He's quite amazing.
Trying to understand Bach's genius hurts my head in the same way contemplating the universe does.
They're basically the same. SDG is on every Bach Piece. There's your answer.
@@moirbasso7051 Sustainable Development Goals ? What are you talking about SDG
@@vibratoryuniverse308 "Soli Deo Gloria" (Glory to God alone) was a phrase that Bach wrote on almost all of his musical manuscripts.
@@vibratoryuniverse308 It's what Bach wrote on every piece of music he composed.
So true, but it hurts so good 😎👍👍
Best video on Bach I've seen! You weren't afraid to get into the nitty gritty of the counterpoint which allows a much more acute sense of awe at his works. Thanks Samuel!
Writing a "canon at the...." is a mindblowing exercise. I have a canon at the 2nd in my oevre, but in some places I've completely painted myself into a corner, and the dissonances have to be accepted as just what they are.
Fabulous exposition. Thank you.
Bach's maddening wizardry can be explained in 10 minutes, and yet such music takes a lifetime to understand... thank you for this. God bless you, sound-maker.
My sister bought me the Glenn Gould versions. I love listening to the contrasts of the two recordings. Everyone time one of these comes up explaining the piece I learned something new thank you
I don't know why but Bach is my favourite composer (I am a poor musicican and song writer and I'm only learning to play piano recently. I love watching people like you who play (seemingly) effortlessly. I know there is lots of effort involved. I hope to get good enough to play well). Many centuries ago one of my band mates (he was a music teacher) and I used to make music together with an electronic/punk ethos. So naturally we took some of Bach;s work and called it the "Bad Tempered Klavier. Probably not listenable except by us. And now I'm the only one left. Thanks for talking about Bach. There is not enough of this.
Fascinating take. I believe it was you who had recommended "Bach: Music in the Castle of Heaven" which alone just looks fantastic on a shelf, but gave me such a unique insight into his work and mentality. This certainly pairs excellently with that read. Thanks!
It’s a beautiful hardcover book! Yes.
Amazing insight, as usual. Thank you.
Found you from Peterson’s podcast. Very glad to have been introduced! Look forward to enjoying your work. Best wishes from England.
Thank you. Very informative analysis.
I mostly agree with the video except the comparison of Bach's imposed retrictions with the "absurd" approach of those french writers. The rules Bach followed where not arbitrary, but the same set every composer knew about, he simply was more consistent.
I agree. Every artistic form has its limitations, inherently. The approach of the writers is not conceptually the same as Bach's restrictions.
I think a more apt comparison would be a poetic form where there are intense constraints on the scansion and rhyme schemes, where the constraints are intellectually impressive even as they enhance the aesthetic experience.
Brilliant! Thank you!
Brilliant explanation thank you.
Happy to have found this channel
I had not heard of Etherin until it was mentioned here. I am very interested in experimental poetry and I am really grateful that you mentioned this particular poet for me to discover. I will also be buying your poetry books. Really appreciate this channel and how it has shown me composers that are now massive, massive inspirations to me.
This is splendid. It is the closet thing yet to scratching the surface of classical music's most complex purveyor, J. C. Bach.
Thanks
Thank you for this. Am going to have to listen to it 20 times. Your explanations are extraordinary; they bring light.
I loved the eye opening interpretation
Interesting and Informative, I will definitely dissect the theoritical aspects presented and experiment with them, thanks for posting.🙏
Wow this is wonderful!!!
Thank you!
Thank you for this lovely analysis! In grad school, I wrote a 60-page type-written, single-spaced analysis of a 2-page Bach fugue from the Well-Tempered Clavier. It was so fascinating, that I couldn’t stop analysing! Nerdy, I know, but fascinating!
This was brilliant!
Very enjoyable and informative, thank you.
Samuel, you remind me of Richard Feynman, and his work "Six Easy Pieces."
He taught laymen about physics in a way that was beautiful and understandable. The title of one lecture was "How all of life is contained in a glass of wine."
You just did the same thing, and Bach is even more beautiful than before.
Thank you!
p.s. I just listened to you and JBP talking, that's how I found out about you.
Me, too 😄
Hello Kathy, that is a great compliment. Feynman is a great model for what a teacher can be, I think.
@@samuel_andreyev Well, yes indeed, and it is great to aspire to Feynman‘s outstanding intellect and communication skills. On the latter, you may want to think about the difference between writing and talking. Your explanations are marvelous, but to me they sound dry and even pontificating, if I may say. Why? Because you are using written style in an oral medium. The smartest people (even at levels much below Feynman) talk straight rather than trying to talk smart. The art of making great podcasts, if you prefer them to be scripted at all, is to script them the way you talk, not the way you write a learned paper… Sources of inspiration: consider any monologue written for the theatre.
@@qn57 Samuel Andreyev's speech is as easy to access as anyone could be given the material. If the content is too arcane for you, get a music dictionary or scout the net and find out what these concepts really mean. Feynman used technical terms when he had to. So did Samuel.
@@mxrc179 thank you for your well intended advice, but you seem to have missed my point entirely… it’s not about the vocabulary and terminology, but about the syntax, which is clearly one of written language, sounding dry and academic
Thank you, very well explained.
No words!! But thank you for these insights....
I've often thought about the connection between Oulipo & Bach. Bravo!
Thanks Andrew!
Thank you for a very informative and fascinating video. I've subscribed to your channel.
Thank you for the video! Would be amazing to hear you talk about it even further :)
Fascinating, thanks
Great content! Thank you very much.
excellent presentation
Utterly magical 🎶
Excellent video 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Ridiculously good timing I just bought "Bach's Musical Universe" to go through The Musical Offering and Goldberg Variations. Thanks! You must make a video about Scriabin's late period now!
Beautiful video thank you
He's lighting up every synapse in your brain and what's amazing thanks to masterful transcriptions I learned advanced classical guitar from JS Bach just as much as I do from Tarrega or any teacher I've had.
So came from JBP podcast and I have always wanted to so see a channel like this.
As a non musical listener I would like it if I could follow when the sheets are shown with highlight
Fantastic. I like that it’s more philosophical than a mere Theoretical Roman Number analysis. It’s important to have a balance of these to grasp the totality of the message that the music is conveying.
Thank you. From the title, I expected clickbait, and I got it - dispelled in the first 10 seconds by your admission, and followed by some of the most interesting - if all too brief - explorations of art and culture I have heard or read recently.
Very cute…immediately starting the video disclaiming the title. lol Well done. It effectively got me to listen! Thank you! ☺️
I’m reading his biography now and this is very helpful !! “Music in the Castle of Heaven.” I doubt we could have had such a developed genius in Beethoven without his study of Bach’s counterpoint.
What many people don't realize is that analyzing Bach's music and his treatment of many things can teach you a lot of things regardless of the interests you have (that be counterpoint, harmony, form, rhythm, technical performance) which you can apply to any genre you compose or play. It's definitely not just an academic exercise, or something you do if you want to compose in his style or that type of music.
For me, it was a changing point when years ago I analyzed in detail (from a form standpoint) his Fugue IV, from WTC 1. There I noticed that he uses smaller cells from the subject and countersubject to construct every single bar of the music, using permutation, transposition, putting it in the accompaniment, using the same intervallic content and movement, using the first half of a cell and the second half of another cell, changing the durations, using retrograde, inversions, juxtaposing different ideas - and I know those things are talked about in music theory, but in this fugue you really see what those things mean and how they can be used to generate material - that is, how you can vary elements from the basic initial structure to create a piece in its entirety. That's very much how many composers would work with motifs later on, with treatment of themes, and with developing variation.
For anyone who's serious about music and composition, is starting out and struggling to get information on how composers can compose a piece or is simply stuck, I recommend you print this fugue out, go somewhere where you don't get distracted, get a pencil and an eraser and actively analyze that fugue (without listening to it and trying to link everything you see - especially from a horizontal aspect - with things that are in the subject/theme and countersubject or with things you have seen in the piece before that bar you're at). Even if you compose contemporary or modern music, or even in other genres like jazz, rock, prog, pop, electronic, this will turn water into wine for you, I promise you.
Coming from Dr Peterson's channel. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with us 🙏💖
Welcome!
Excellent content! First time I see video and comments being constructive and enriching! seems that you attract knowledge ! this is the wizardry here. Im going to search all the book titles you showed. ! Long life and fortune! tmk
Hi samuel,
I just listened to your album The tubular west and enjoyed it very much. simplicity and complexity, charm and thoughtfulness, and surprising lightness and communicativeness are the superlatives that come to my mind. it reminded me somewhat of early compositions of Israeli composer Yoni Rechter, undoubtedly one of Israel's greatest composers of all times. I can recommend the songs Atur Mitzchech, Shuv hi kan, and the whole album 'intensions' as remarkable pieces he wrote in the seventies. I think your work resemble each other in a way except that yours is more experimental and his is more harmonious and complete in a way. Just wanted to write this and recommend you about him. Love your music and lectures as well. keep up, onwards and upwards!
If the music of Bach were all that we had, we would have it all!
Hi Phillip; I agree with you!!; when talking about Bach centuries ago( before internet) I mentioned that Bach was perfection, the first modern composer, whose romanticism and sensuality coexisted…etc., etc., that became a very long talk. I could have used your excellent comment. Take care.
@@suzyserling277 I am so glad you touched upon his romanticism. Genres aside, he is the most romantic of all composers, beyond being human yet all he while remaining ever humane. Blessings, Suzy!
Nice. I love you. 😂
@@JakeKlineMusic Well, thank you ha!
What a pleasant surprise!
The connection you draw between Bach’s music and literature is very interesting. I will definitely look into some of these books.
And it’s good to see you play the piano!
Thanks for the video Samuel.
You may want to expand on this by reading Doug Hofstadter‘s Gödel, Escher, Bach - even if you never finish it (just like everybody else I know who started reading it).
@@qn57 that’s on my list!
Wonderful!
Bach is so fascinating!
Thank you so much.
What a lovely video. Thank you. It gave me goosebumps, and I realized that as an artifact of its ancient history, Music rightfully remains the rare polytheistic religion with its hierarchy of gods, semigods, semihemigods, and semihemidemigods. But my heart also ached for Bach-how lonely he must have been at the top-but then who knows the depth of his endurance, not being of this earth.
The emphasis on constraint-based writing has been very helpful for me. I've also been reading a book on Messiaen's music that's been very illuminating. I didn't realize until recently how structural his music is. Now that I've been thinking about music in this way, the ideas have really been flowing a lot better.
Severe constraints are liberating and foster creativity! It' the best kept secret in music :)
@@samuel_andreyev Well thanks for letting the cat out of the bag, I hope your fellow professional composers don't get upset, jajaja.
Your french accent is on point, very lovely !
I love your channel.
Hey, nice video! It would have been nice to have spent a minute on the context: contrapuntal mastery was a huge deal with generations before Bach (Buxtehude, Kuhnau, Muffat and many others) and there are many amazing works with crab cannons, augmentation cannons and so forth before Bach. To me it is no wonder that people during Bach's time grew tired of fugues and went in opposite direction towards gallant style.
I've really liked your videos for many years, and this one is no exception. Three quick things:
1. Nice job working up the variation! I've played them, and I know that being able to get through #3 even at a moderate tempo takes a *lot* of practice.
2. My favorite note in this variation? The A# in the left hand "free" voice, shortly before the first repeat.
3. As a mathematician, I appreciate the "maddening wizardry" of Bach that you explain so well. And yet... the reason why he's the greatest for me is that his writing is just so *beautiful*. Whether it's this variation, or a simple invention, or the B minor mass, there's always this perfect beautiful clarity to his voicings and other ideas. I don't know how to analyze this quality, but I feel that it's related to the ability to translate his music from instrument to instrument so successfully. As if the timbres of the notes was less important than the relationships between the notes... It's a mystery.
Thanks for sharing!
Yup, Bach's music very much often values the relationship between the notes as opposed to mere texture. Texture is a different and in some ways more modern way of conceptualizing pretty music. I personally love exploring relationships between pitches themselves as opposed to sound design or creating color through texture
You did very well in the ten minutes.
I don't think I will ever understand music, but I love Bach. Thank you for this video.
Beautiful 💗.
Yer a wizard Johann. I would love to see you make an introductory video on counter point and canons and all the technical stuff involved in understanding this. Because For me some of this was difficult to fully understand or follow. As a non expert of music theory
"Perfunctory arpeggio." So great
Thank you for presenting this topic, and for doing an excellent job of explaining the ingenuity of Bach's canons by describing their compositional technical challenges. This is a topic that has been dear to me for a long time, and your musical understanding is clearly superlative. In the matter of meaning contained in Bach's music, however, I would dare say that your reference to Bach's sensibility regarding Heaven, Earth, and the conjugation of those two realms, along with their hypothetical presence in Bach's musical writing, is purely speculative at best, unless there is biographical source documentation referencing that attitude by Bach. Maybe it was in fact the case that Bach was attempting to portray divine themes in his craft. Or, rather, perhaps Bach simply approached musical counterpoint in the way that some people approach crossword puzzles or crime mystery dramas; simply a puzzle to be solved as an intellectual pursuit complete unto itself. Though Bach worked for the church for a sizable portion of his career, nothing in the biographical information I have noticed suggests in Bach any sort of mysticism, artistic religiosity, or attempt at spiritual reconciliation. To the contrary, we know him to have been secular on a personal level, a pragmatist, a workaholic, and almost culturally pedestrian due to his all consuming preoccupation with the craft and profession of music to the virtual exclusion of all else. It is true that in his music I glimpse the divine, as apparently you do also. However, that does mean that Bach was divinely inspired, or that he attempted to inject spirituality into his workmanship. A simpler explanation, that is in keeping with what biographical familiarity we do have, is simply that intelligence such as Bach's is inherently divine, and so produces sublime outcomes just naturally, organically, without any attempt to do so. Now, I too am being speculative, haha. However, I suspect that for Bach, music was simply a puzzle that he was addicted to because his intellect required that type of demanding realm in which to engage with cerebrally, to exert his ingenuity to the point of personal satisfaction, and to constantly occupy his restless capacity for extensive focused reasoning. Musicians of Bach's time and shortly after his period thought of Bach, and referred to him, as nothing more than a musical mathematician. Were he alive today, perhaps Bach would be writing computer code all day long, as a means to satisfy his intellectual drive and the need for a decent living wage. I am glad that in his time, Bach wrote music. I do not need to know what motivated him. I know that his music gives voice to the universal creative force, and I am thankful for that on its' own terms. It is a privilege and a pleasure to hear infinity with my own ears.
To add: Bach was a "choirmaster" a position he took very seriously, and apparently devoted his life and work to God, which I can understand, especially among musicians where "divine voices" come to all of us. Or some can "hear." I only listen to the Goldbergs, as I don't YET read music notation very well, but I see that a paper score, with the three voices one above another, is ideal for visualizing music played. I have Glenn Gould and a harpsicord version by Christiane Jaccottet. I love Bach's voices running along together, in and out, like some chromosomal strands, and the Brandenburg Concertos also. Bach seems more than genius, and "mystical" might easily apply.
Im a transplant from Dr. Petersons channel! Im so glad I found your stuff! From another creative, much appreciated
Welcome!
I discovered you through your interview with Jordan Peterson.
I listened to this intently Knowing I have no real clue about writing, reading or even playing music. I do know how music makes me feel. That speaks to me at a much deeper level than even some meditations. And Bach has always been a favorite of mine.
I did "learn" to play guitar in the 6th grade, 1973. The connected notes on the lines had the chord notated above it.
I got bored quickly as I expected to be able to be a guitar player way sooner. I never put the work into learning so I didn't get very good and eventually my sister stepped on my guitar.
My dad listened to classic music, along in the living room. I heard it up in my room where I pretended not to like it. One day I heard some of this classical music I really liked and sat down on the couch to listen. My dad, with a big smile said to me, this my dear child is the original rock and roll music! I was hooked
What piece was it?
“Stray arts”! Just ordered. Thx 🙏🏻
You’ll love it!
I remember the first time I heard the ouverture to BMW 1068 in 1996. It really is like magic.
Wonderful video! A few of your top-down piano demonstrations could stand to be rotated 180 degrees: making them viewable and thus understandable from a pianist's pov. Thanks again, and keep these awesome essays coming!
Good idea 💡
If you like maddening canons, you should take a closer look at Johannes Ockeghem's Missa Prolationum. Just listened to your interview with JP on his podcast. Good stuff!
Fine throw
for the win!
What a lovely man
Your chair reminds me of Gould's famous chair, except by the 80s his chair had lost all it's padding and only the wooden cross-bars remained- ouch! But great for thinking- and playing!
exceptional work, thank you
Samuel-what do you like as far as literature? Would be curious to know a top 5, or list of favorites in no particular order. Maybe even a video? a man can dream.
Bach = sublime emotive musical engineering
fantastic
So glad to have much of this explained . So glad I'm reading JohnEGardiner's Bach! Bach makes cross relations sound good . 2:44 is stupefying cruciform and crab canons every composer should try constraints : they make you better ! Also Andreyev give us some fascinating data about literary gameplay (constraints ) in the 20th century in addition to the musical games of the Baroque . Someone here rightly cites Richard Feynman talking about fixing ,exploring radios as a child his famous books and lectures in physics on math and -apt comparison to the exhilarating talks of Mr. Andreyev . He is TH-cams Mr. Bernstein for the Twenties ! Has anyone given this decade a monikernickname . Where is Hans von Bulow when you need him ?
Yikes! Your presentation hits me like a Master's Thesis! Was really hanging out for the played examples as I have never studied Theory despite starting as a cathedral chorister... 😳
Fascinating analysis which, to a great degree, is beyond my musical knowledge, but I can study. Have always loved the Goldberg Variations of Bach. Father introduced me to the Glenn Gould iconic recording and I was hooked.
My only experience of playing Bach is with the repertoire arranged for guitar (especially the lute suites), but even so, there are times when reading and playing through a piece for the first time, I have to stop and think "holy shit, that was an amazing couple of measures." And the interesting thing is that when I stop playing Bach, my head "continues" in the same style. In fact all I have to do is listen to a piece of Bach and stop it, and my head seems to keep composing the rest using the same patterns Bach was using. I think even musically untrained people pick up on the patterns in Bach music, even if not consciously.
That was one of the most beautiful yet technical explanations I’ve ever heard, and I’ll claim great experience against for reference. But not too technical,, and not too glossy, or over adored. I all but worship what Bach did for music, which to me is a religion unto itself. But we mustn’t deify the mortal. But one has to wonder whether God IS that propulsion that drives us forward, to express in the most creative and attractive and evocative of ways. It must assuredly be. Well, my God is.
Nah, that's silly a genius is a genius.
Good basic analysis of some compositional techniques. Bach's music to me is a conundrum: Simple theme (Mostly) with endless variations as well as expansions and contractions.
One thing few people realize is Classical music was a simplified reaction to Bach's complexity.
How exactly was the Classical Era, and era with masters such as Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, etc. who composed on a much different (not higher or lower, just different) musical level than Bach simplified?
@@Anonkontello I'm talking about complexity, not a musical level. I'm also not saying Bach's music was "better" in any way. If you don't know much about music and music theory you won't understand what I'm talking about. The composers of the Classical period felt Bach was too technical and devoid of emotion.
@@nyobunknown6983 Perhaps you misunderstood me (my comment was wordy). Since we're changing the topic to few people realizing classical music was a simplified form to the composers of the classical period feeling Bach was too technical and devoid of emotion, do you have any sources to back that up? (That composers felt Bach was "too technical and devoid of emotion", not the other thing.
@@nyobunknown6983 Ok no offense, but you lost all credibility when you said Beethoven's 5th wasn't complex. So, I'll consider reading the book you sent, but I'm afraid saying that any of Beethoven's symphonies were anything less than highly complex, structured, and brilliant masterpieces will get strong resistance from me.
@@Anonkontello They are not harmonically complex. I suspect you don't know enough about music to understand what I'm saying. I've been a musician for 50 years. Complexity is not the same as good. Some complex music is not good while some simple music is excellent. Beethoven's music was brilliant and certainly masterpieces of composition. Being able to compose something so brilliant based on such a simple musical idea is genius. Whether it's structured or not is irrelevant. Jazz is often loosely structured yet much of it is some of the best music ever done. Why you are equating complexity with how good the music is I don't understand.