In the works of Virgil is said that they were in a female form in the elysium fields. But in the Greek myths just says they become a golden bird. I'm fine either way, still best boy/girl, but I kinda want to see how they would look as a male.
Caenis was actually saved by Wodime when the Dioscuri are leaving her to drown. We hear a Command Spell sound, and when we meet Wodime again he only has two of them.
Thank you for saying this. I always wanted to know what that sound was, but it was so unexplained that I never knew what it meant other then that it saved her. My only idea was that it had something to do with Poseidon saving her because she was underwater, but I thought it was *very* unlikely given how he was in Atlantis.
It was obviously seen thorough that Caenis was still pretty much have her contract intact with Wodime. If she were literally abandoned by her master. She should have already left and return to the Throne. Only Archers in Servant classes as far as I know can prolong their stay on the world due to their Independent Manifestation skill.
Call this a mere hypothesis on my end about Caenis. I thought of this after hearing her Bond 4 line. With having played Olympus and seen what the greek gods there are, maybe Caenis could never have turned into a man, because Poseidon wasn't able to, no matter how much authority he had. In the end, becoming a 'man' was less a physical than it was a mental change. The damage was done and he only left his trident and her armor in a manner in the matter of 'do it yourself', which would only fuel Caenis' hatred for Poseidon even more. First abusing her and then letting her fix the damage herself. It worked. With the gifts she got from him, Caenis became the powerful warrior known in the myths and in the end was recorded by writers as a powerful man instead of the beautiful woman she was on the surface. And she succeeded. As you said in the video, being treated as a woman makes her think of her vulnerability back when she was violated and she reminds every single person that she is not. And among the Argonauts there are people that could sympathise with her situation, yet still treat her with respect. One who was in a similar situation with suitors, despite not having had a god chase after her, is Atalanta. Call it a small headcanon that the two must have been very close in Fate, together with Medea, for being in similar situation and she would be one of the few who would not budge when any on the Argo called her a woman by accident or because they were drunk. For the fact that both had similar troubles, one earlier in life and one later, it is pretty a bit strange that they do not have any lines for another. In the end, this stays as a theory. Caenis is without a doubt an incredible Servant, one of the most intriguing and one of my favorites, easily in my top 10. I was actually pretty damn afraid I wouldn't get her after having thrown on the Apocrypha banner to get both my Atalantas to NP5 succesfully. But I guess Caenis decided that I was worthy enough, even if the Dioscuri stole her thunder by appearing first in my rolls XD But in the end, Caenis is the one who is NP2 now and has been actively on the front.
@@otakudaikun in all honesty the rape story if I remember correctly was made by Ovid (I consider every tale made by him to more reflect their roman counter part or be completely fake) and in the og myth she either accepted Poseidon and wished to be a man after or basically made a deal to where he gets her and she becomes a man after the fact though im surprised fate used the Ovid roman version when they used the og greek version of medusa.
Being too attractive in green mythology can be a curse, like the possibility of being kidnapped by a god or goddess. A deity can become very Possessive over a person that catches their eyes. Ritsuka is a goddess chick magnet that not a good thing since their many goddesses hit by his Harem ex.
Good job on another fate servant lore dai kun! This is the series that got me into fate in the first place and you now just made 100+ fate servant lore vids! Good job
I had some really bad luck trying to summon them when they came to NA. I did two Lostbelts speed runs to keep trying and still no luck. Someday I hope they answer. Because they are beautiful, strong, and interesting story
Hmm think Cronus' sickle is lying around somewhere in the Olympus lostbelt? I'm sure Caenis and Medusa wouldn't mind borrowing it for a moment, Drake can even give them a lift. That aside so glad I was able to summon Caenis when I could, since I had almost nothing left after a successful summoning of another final accession gold clad Lancer.
I actually saw concept art of Caenis’s original self she is one of many beauty In Greece shame Poseidon ruined that he really is Zeus’s brother in that regret
Even in the actual Greek myth lore, poseidon is more menacing and ruthless than Zeus is. Tbh Hades is actually the most tame/neutral of all the powerful Greek gods. In the lore poseidon is described as a whiny brat who always lu isles people on whims and very cruelly.
Honestly my biggest problem with the whole Caenis gender issue is that the characters refer to them as a her instead of a him Just change that and say they could be summoned as either Caenis(female) or Caeneus(male) but they see themself as a guy regardless of what body they are summoned in This way you don't need to change the character ,we get to keep our chocolate waifu and also could get a possible chocolate husbando if the creators wanted to add Caeneus to any future projects
Well you have to consider it from Fates perspective too. Think about it their flagship servant Saber. Artoria historically is written as a male but is a woman who hid her gender to try to be the perfect king for her people. This even reflects the same with her son/daughter Mordred who denies her gender by saying she is a male.Yet both of them are referred to as she or her,the difference in it is Artoria if you play the visual novel games accepts her femininity. Heck we even see that the Lion King variation of Artoria accepts she is a woman. So it's not really bad or wrong that they keep calling Caenis her even though she like Mordred classifies she is a male
To me I think the reason people say she is just the disconnect of seeing such an obviously female body for a man. People who know Caenis personally and are close with Caenis such as Kirschtaria refer to Caenis as him, while people who either aren't familiar, or try to get a rise out of Caenis refer to them as her.
0:51 they also comes with Suitors,sexual abuser and Rapist Manwha(pornwha)taught me that one but there are series with none of that melodrama just pure vanilla I wished Caenis experience that then her actual history
I really liked wodimes back and forth with caenis a ton. How his other servants didn't understand him yet thought they did being arrogant while canies did but no really show it. Wodime was just an all around cool Character having plans on top of plans using status planning and confidence to keep things going. Negative is her whole posiden plot. They should have made her a lostbelt servant not pan human history as it is a contriditory lore especially with Medusa who has no hate towards him and is friends with only low IQ people thinking otherwise as they don't read. Just makes how past lore is always changed with for the current thing annoying. If she was lostbelt it would be fine like Morgan and it's double check with zues phh being a cool guy while lostbelt is Ovid. But yeah screw Ovid
I would never belive this day would come. That another fate servant would come along and dethrone my number one fate waifu and taker her place on the waifu throne. Caenis just proved me wrong. [insert wolf howling and dumping a bucket of ice water to calm down here]
I feel like Caenis and Mordred would be good friends. yeah when they first meet they'd probably wanna kick the shit outta each other but I feel like that could grow into a mutal respect and friendly rivalry for one another.
I only know this woman thanks to a certain amount of things and those cerned amount of things are: Dark skin. Abs. White hair. And hot. And those are all that I need. Good lore video around her and....... This is one of those times where I'm totally fine that she is a girl. If she was a dude I can only imagine how unpleasant the art would be lol. Still nice job!
Does giving chocolate to Caenis apply to male Ritsuka as well? Because then now I’m just wondering if male Ritsuka gives chocolates to all the male servants on Valentine’s Day
You can give chocolates to male Servants in the Valentine's event. I think there's a slight alteration of dialogue depending on Ritsuka's chosen gender.
Funny, I was just thinking how similar she is to Mordred, and then found out they become friends at the end. Anyway, I wasnt expecting Poseidon to be a fucking rapist. I wonder if they will ever make him a summonable servant.
Technically all the gods often rape humans in some manner. It's never really a good ending when greek gods like a human or take interest in them. Basically they are just whiny old beings who often play around because they have nothing better to do.
What's interesting is the original story of Caenis was just that she wanted to be a man so she went to Poseidon and he said done deal, the rapey part has its origins in Ovid's telling of the story. This actually gives me an interesting idea for an Ovid servant, who rewrites saint graphs to be much darker and to incite hatred within servants...
In the og myth caenis was a princess. But when approached by poseidon and that he wanted her chastity she agreed but only on the condition that she gets turned into a man after. This was more because in the myth lore if humans refused the gods in any way, they would often suffer a fate worse than death or just straighr up death. Hence caenis chose a less dangerous option and asked to be a man and thus became caeneus. Basically in the og lore she was still forced into sex because she knew she would suffer something worse and just came up with a clever way to avoid ever being taken advantage of again, while narrowly avoiding punishment from poseidon who by all means is the most cruelest of all the greek gods. Basically choosing an option C, since option A was a rock and option B was hard place.
@@infinitesession5439 If you wanna be *really* pedantic the OG og myth was actually just a ritual rather than a story performed on the new year, where a bird is placed in a wickerman, and the wickerman is smashed so the bird is released. The word Caeneus meant new, the gender stuff was an add on later, and afaik a reference to a soldier from whats now Albania who was found to be biologically female after death. This is pure speculation hereon out, but The story may have been a teardown of this ritual, as Caeneus forces his subjects to sacrifice to him as a god, and the ritual is a pagan one in service to no Hellenic god. The idea of the warrior secretly being a woman in the context of Ancient Greece who don't exactly respect women too much this could be a way to belittle the ritual/its participants
13:00 once again past history was so bad with women they didn’t want to be women at all with the raping,disrespect and the abuse and you wonder why in anime media guys are to ones to worry about because of treatment with women
So one question were do you actually get the info to make these Lore videos because these lore servant videos look and sound different compared to other Fate lore videos ive seen, its more like a story than anything else?
I gather every bit of official testimony I can from the games, material books, etc. A lot can be found on the wiki, but I check sources for more details. I make sure to check out the servants' interludes and such too. Then, I fill in those gaps with the actual legends about the character.
Little confused about the legends part. You say centaurs (horse body with human upper body where the head should be) went 'savage' at their party in the video but pretty sure it's satyrs (humans with goat legs) that are the party animals and sexual assaultor. Or the legend mixed them up?
Looks like Higurashi wins, but I'm currently going through an existential crisis. I feel like livestreams are currently hurting me in the algorithm, but either way I won't be streaming this weekend due to family obligations.
Maybe in some fgo event they will have gender bent him to his form in which he chose , I do hope they make female servants into male servants since they have to many male servant to female servant
@@otakudaikun oh my god! THANK YOU SO MUCH. I finally found the one track I've been looking for, for AGES. Keep doing what you're doing! I love your videos.
@@otakudaikun Oh! This is perfect. I've been asking this question throughout the Fate Reddits and got nothing. So I'll give it a shot with you. "When really was the first time Artoria tasted Modern food?"
![Fate Lore - The Tale of Yu Miaoyi [Yu Mei-ren]](/img/n.gif)
Do you think Caenis should have stayed a man in servant form? Obviously I don't want that, but to each their own.
I'm fine if all servants became women, more harem to me
easy solution! man version and woman version.
In the works of Virgil is said that they were in a female form in the elysium fields. But in the Greek myths just says they become a golden bird. I'm fine either way, still best boy/girl, but I kinda want to see how they would look as a male.
@@bigtacotime4382 PERFECT
How about a male and female version? I mean Avenger Nobu did it.
Caenis is my second Favorite Tomboy character in FGO after Mordred.
We believe in tomboy supremacy.
Caenis was actually saved by Wodime when the Dioscuri are leaving her to drown. We hear a Command Spell sound, and when we meet Wodime again he only has two of them.
I don't like how they make that so obscure.
Thank you for saying this. I always wanted to know what that sound was, but it was so unexplained that I never knew what it meant other then that it saved her. My only idea was that it had something to do with Poseidon saving her because she was underwater, but I thought it was *very* unlikely given how he was in Atlantis.
It was obviously seen thorough that Caenis was still pretty much have her contract intact with Wodime.
If she were literally abandoned by her master. She should have already left and return to the Throne. Only Archers in Servant classes as far as I know can prolong their stay on the world due to their Independent Manifestation skill.
Yet another great Servant Lore video Bravo.
How'd you get the command seal as a emoji that's cool
Call this a mere hypothesis on my end about Caenis. I thought of this after hearing her Bond 4 line.
With having played Olympus and seen what the greek gods there are, maybe Caenis could never have turned into a man, because Poseidon wasn't able to, no matter how much authority he had. In the end, becoming a 'man' was less a physical than it was a mental change. The damage was done and he only left his trident and her armor in a manner in the matter of 'do it yourself', which would only fuel Caenis' hatred for Poseidon even more. First abusing her and then letting her fix the damage herself. It worked. With the gifts she got from him, Caenis became the powerful warrior known in the myths and in the end was recorded by writers as a powerful man instead of the beautiful woman she was on the surface. And she succeeded. As you said in the video, being treated as a woman makes her think of her vulnerability back when she was violated and she reminds every single person that she is not.
And among the Argonauts there are people that could sympathise with her situation, yet still treat her with respect. One who was in a similar situation with suitors, despite not having had a god chase after her, is Atalanta. Call it a small headcanon that the two must have been very close in Fate, together with Medea, for being in similar situation and she would be one of the few who would not budge when any on the Argo called her a woman by accident or because they were drunk. For the fact that both had similar troubles, one earlier in life and one later, it is pretty a bit strange that they do not have any lines for another.
In the end, this stays as a theory. Caenis is without a doubt an incredible Servant, one of the most intriguing and one of my favorites, easily in my top 10. I was actually pretty damn afraid I wouldn't get her after having thrown on the Apocrypha banner to get both my Atalantas to NP5 succesfully. But I guess Caenis decided that I was worthy enough, even if the Dioscuri stole her thunder by appearing first in my rolls XD But in the end, Caenis is the one who is NP2 now and has been actively on the front.
It's certainly a theory hinted at by one version of the story.
@@otakudaikun in all honesty the rape story if I remember correctly was made by Ovid (I consider every tale made by him to more reflect their roman counter part or be completely fake) and in the og myth she either accepted Poseidon and wished to be a man after or basically made a deal to where he gets her and she becomes a man after the fact though im surprised fate used the Ovid roman version when they used the og greek version of medusa.
@@durrangodsgrief6503 Yeah, that's interesting. Ovid definitely made the stories more dramatic, but I understand your viewpoint.
@@otakudaikun honestly speaking poseidon should sue for the amount of false allegations played against him due to Ovid
After Musashi, Caenis was definitely my favorite servant in the Lost Belt and one of the most refreshing character arcs
Caenis is my most favorite tomboy and I love her so much. I love hearing her origin story, it really inspires me. I thank you for the inspiration.
13:14 Bond 10 and Onward Caenis showing more of her original self to us master
Being too attractive in green mythology can be a curse, like the possibility of being kidnapped by a god or goddess. A deity can become very Possessive over a person that catches their eyes. Ritsuka is a goddess chick magnet that not a good thing since their many goddesses hit by his Harem ex.
16:01 typical days of being violent Tsundere lol
Greek Stories sure have an enticing uniqueness to them. I hope we one day get a Rider Caenius so we can have both Male and Female versions.
I'm pretty sure we do have a Rider Caenis. It's her summer form.
Caenius, not Caenis.
Another lore video thank dai love seeing what the difference is between real myth and fates myth
This servant lore video was really good.
Good job on another fate servant lore dai kun! This is the series that got me into fate in the first place and you now just made 100+ fate servant lore vids! Good job
I had some really bad luck trying to summon them when they came to NA. I did two Lostbelts speed runs to keep trying and still no luck. Someday I hope they answer. Because they are beautiful, strong, and interesting story
Hmm think Cronus' sickle is lying around somewhere in the Olympus lostbelt? I'm sure Caenis and Medusa wouldn't mind borrowing it for a moment, Drake can even give them a lift.
That aside so glad I was able to summon Caenis when I could, since I had almost nothing left after a successful summoning of another final accession gold clad Lancer.
I actually saw concept art of Caenis’s original self she is one of many beauty In Greece shame Poseidon ruined that he really is Zeus’s brother in that regret
Please, source!?
its more Neptune than Poseidon as this version was made by Ovid and not a greece writer
Even in the actual Greek myth lore, poseidon is more menacing and ruthless than Zeus is. Tbh Hades is actually the most tame/neutral of all the powerful Greek gods. In the lore poseidon is described as a whiny brat who always lu isles people on whims and very cruelly.
I love Caenis they have such a real complicated story life and motivations
Honestly my biggest problem with the whole Caenis gender issue is that the characters refer to them as a her instead of a him
Just change that and say they could be summoned as either Caenis(female) or Caeneus(male) but they see themself as a guy regardless of what body they are summoned in
This way you don't need to change the character ,we get to keep our chocolate waifu and also could get a possible chocolate husbando if the creators wanted to add Caeneus to any future projects
Or better yet. Just go maou nobu who has both Because if Japanese biase.
Well you have to consider it from Fates perspective too. Think about it their flagship servant Saber. Artoria historically is written as a male but is a woman who hid her gender to try to be the perfect king for her people. This even reflects the same with her son/daughter Mordred who denies her gender by saying she is a male.Yet both of them are referred to as she or her,the difference in it is Artoria if you play the visual novel games accepts her femininity. Heck we even see that the Lion King variation of Artoria accepts she is a woman. So it's not really bad or wrong that they keep calling Caenis her even though she like Mordred classifies she is a male
But it’s fate… lol
To me I think the reason people say she is just the disconnect of seeing such an obviously female body for a man. People who know Caenis personally and are close with Caenis such as Kirschtaria refer to Caenis as him, while people who either aren't familiar, or try to get a rise out of Caenis refer to them as her.
13:20 that’s why she’s Greek Mordred
0:51 they also comes with Suitors,sexual abuser and Rapist Manwha(pornwha)taught me that one but there are series with none of that melodrama just pure vanilla I wished Caenis experience that then her actual history
I really liked wodimes back and forth with caenis a ton. How his other servants didn't understand him yet thought they did being arrogant while canies did but no really show it. Wodime was just an all around cool Character having plans on top of plans using status planning and confidence to keep things going.
Negative is her whole posiden plot. They should have made her a lostbelt servant not pan human history as it is a contriditory lore especially with Medusa who has no hate towards him and is friends with only low IQ people thinking otherwise as they don't read. Just makes how past lore is always changed with for the current thing annoying. If she was lostbelt it would be fine like Morgan and it's double check with zues phh being a cool guy while lostbelt is Ovid. But yeah screw Ovid
Caenis my love...
I would never belive this day would come. That another fate servant would come along and dethrone my number one fate waifu and taker her place on the waifu throne. Caenis just proved me wrong.
[insert wolf howling and dumping a bucket of ice water to calm down here]
just beat olympus I can finally watch this video!
Objectively Best Greek Waifu gets more love. It's truly wonderful.
In a nutshell: Gender confusion in servant form.
Maybe that explains why I STILL can't summon the Dioscuri, but the FIRST time I summoned on Caenis' banner she popped up not once, but twice.
I feel like Caenis and Mordred would be good friends. yeah when they first meet they'd probably wanna kick the shit outta each other but I feel like that could grow into a mutal respect and friendly rivalry for one another.
Chocolate alert
You never answered my question of if you checked out Chibichuki.
Such a waste that Caenis never interacts with Medusa in story or in My Room.
I haven't checked that out yet, no.
man all we need to summon caenis is a balls of steel and a crossaint
after watching this video I drew Caenis
I only know this woman thanks to a certain amount of things and those cerned amount of things are:
Dark skin.
Abs.
White hair.
And hot.
And those are all that I need. Good lore video around her and....... This is one of those times where I'm totally fine that she is a girl. If she was a dude I can only imagine how unpleasant the art would be lol. Still nice job!
Does giving chocolate to Caenis apply to male Ritsuka as well? Because then now I’m just wondering if male Ritsuka gives chocolates to all the male servants on Valentine’s Day
I hadn't checked. I don't think it matters.
You can give chocolates to male Servants in the Valentine's event. I think there's a slight alteration of dialogue depending on Ritsuka's chosen gender.
I just went over The playlist
I am disappointed that Solomon has yet to get his Lore covered
Caenis only weakness - sleep paralysis - Docking 👌
the craziest part is that Caenis and Xuanzang have the same Voice Actress. LoL.
Wow, didn't realize that.
@@otakudaikun yeah, I was shocked too.
Talk about a double mood
@@desmondmalone438 I know, right. talk about incredible talent.
@@michaelmutranowski123 hey I wonder if Original Caenis voice would sound like a Saintly Sanzang or a more mature Sanzang
Funny, I was just thinking how similar she is to Mordred, and then found out they become friends at the end.
Anyway, I wasnt expecting Poseidon to be a fucking rapist. I wonder if they will ever make him a summonable servant.
He'd have to be a pseudo servant of some kind.
Technically all the gods often rape humans in some manner. It's never really a good ending when greek gods like a human or take interest in them. Basically they are just whiny old beings who often play around because they have nothing better to do.
ah yes, the three genders: Man, Woman and Fiery Bird
What's interesting is the original story of Caenis was just that she wanted to be a man so she went to Poseidon and he said done deal, the rapey part has its origins in Ovid's telling of the story.
This actually gives me an interesting idea for an Ovid servant, who rewrites saint graphs to be much darker and to incite hatred within servants...
Ovid and assault seem to go hand in hand. Medusa was the same way.
@@otakudaikun in the og telling you could say caenis was a Disney princess
In the og myth caenis was a princess. But when approached by poseidon and that he wanted her chastity she agreed but only on the condition that she gets turned into a man after. This was more because in the myth lore if humans refused the gods in any way, they would often suffer a fate worse than death or just straighr up death. Hence caenis chose a less dangerous option and asked to be a man and thus became caeneus. Basically in the og lore she was still forced into sex because she knew she would suffer something worse and just came up with a clever way to avoid ever being taken advantage of again, while narrowly avoiding punishment from poseidon who by all means is the most cruelest of all the greek gods. Basically choosing an option C, since option A was a rock and option B was hard place.
@@infinitesession5439
If you wanna be *really* pedantic the OG og myth was actually just a ritual rather than a story performed on the new year, where a bird is placed in a wickerman, and the wickerman is smashed so the bird is released. The word Caeneus meant new, the gender stuff was an add on later, and afaik a reference to a soldier from whats now Albania who was found to be biologically female after death.
This is pure speculation hereon out, but The story may have been a teardown of this ritual, as Caeneus forces his subjects to sacrifice to him as a god, and the ritual is a pagan one in service to no Hellenic god. The idea of the warrior secretly being a woman in the context of Ancient Greece who don't exactly respect women too much this could be a way to belittle the ritual/its participants
Otakudaikun when will the next live stream be and who win in the voting poll and i vote for waifu kurea aoki
One of the many greatest Waifu in Fate!
Those bangs resemble rabbit ears
i stand with caligula! let us wage war against poseidon and poseidon specifically
13:00 once again past history was so bad with women they didn’t want to be women at all with the raping,disrespect and the abuse and you wonder why in anime media guys are to ones to worry about because of treatment with women
So one question were do you actually get the info to make these Lore videos because these lore servant videos look and sound different compared to other Fate lore videos ive seen, its more like a story than anything else?
I gather every bit of official testimony I can from the games, material books, etc. A lot can be found on the wiki, but I check sources for more details. I make sure to check out the servants' interludes and such too. Then, I fill in those gaps with the actual legends about the character.
Little confused about the legends part. You say centaurs (horse body with human upper body where the head should be) went 'savage' at their party in the video but pretty sure it's satyrs (humans with goat legs) that are the party animals and sexual assaultor.
Or the legend mixed them up?
Pretty sure it's Centaurs. Would Satyrs be strong enough to rip trees out of a mountain.
@@otakudaikun eh 2 fictional creatures who is to say who can do what, when humans have Caenis and others? xD
14:58, does anyone know where this one came from
All the artists are listed in the description.
Otakudaikun and who win in the next live stream game voting poll
Looks like Higurashi wins, but I'm currently going through an existential crisis. I feel like livestreams are currently hurting me in the algorithm, but either way I won't be streaming this weekend due to family obligations.
Maybe in some fgo event they will have gender bent him to his form in which he chose , I do hope they make female servants into male servants since they have to many male servant to female servant
I think the closest to that at the moment would be Chevalier d'Eon, who went from an intersex trans woman to genderfluid
Been meaning to ask for a while, what music do you use for your background? Does anyone know?
Most times it's from the 06 Fate Stay Night anime.
@@otakudaikun oh my god! THANK YOU SO MUCH. I finally found the one track I've been looking for, for AGES. Keep doing what you're doing! I love your videos.
Sometimes it takes a guy to be best girl
For some reason I’m a fan of anime characters who are cursed to stay female for life
Super specific
weird honesly
I see tomboy GF anime material I click, there for I exist,
Hehe hippodamia
Me :"pfft, "kainis" lol"
There must be something I don't get.
@@otakudaikun oh wait let me edit that
@@otakudaikun I immediately forgot why this comment was supposed to be funny. I'll explain it to you when I remember ...
@@otakudaikun I really liked your Pendragon Family Counseling.
@@otakudaikun Oh! This is perfect. I've been asking this question throughout the Fate Reddits and got nothing. So I'll give it a shot with you.
"When really was the first time Artoria tasted Modern food?"
Hehe hippodamia
Did I say it wrong, or is it just a funny name?