ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2024
- Welcome to Dean of Doom, the show where we give grades to classic and contemporary Doom wads. Why? Because ranking things is fun. Today’s episode will be dedicated to Thy Flesh Consumed, a fourth nine-level episode for Doom which was released in stores with the Ultimate Doom in 1995. This is the final set of classic Doom levels that id Software ever worked on, with old hands John Romero, American McGee, and Shawn Green each contributing two maps, rounded out with submissions from Tim Willits, who went on to work for id, and John Anderson, a.k.a. Dr. Sleep. This episode was shoehorned in as a prequel to Doom II, even by id standards the story element of this one is VERY lazy, and can be thought of as a sort of DLC, except back then it came for free if you bought the original game. Hope The Ancient Gods (Part One) is worth it, folks! Anyway, I wanted to knock this one out because it’s the last big classic Doom release that I haven’t covered on this channel, and seeing as I don’t have the willpower to cover The Master Levels at the moment, it’ll probably be the last commercial Doom release I cover for quite some time. Let’s get to it.
To skip to the reviews: 1:50
Can you do Doom 64?
@@davepeterz2378 you eventually got it :)
"More DOOM is never unwelcome" - Gene Bird enters the chat...
"Don't have the power to cover the Master Levels"
You can't run from the Master Levels forever!!
I was about to leave a comment about how you should do the Master Levels, and of course this is the top comment...
Especially now that even decino put his big boy breeches on and started playing it :P
This aged well 😂
Petition to make "Hell Beneath has only nine health bonuses" the Doom version of "Pot of Greed allows me to draw 2 cards".
The longer the Pot of Greed remains on Earth, the more powerful my hand becomes
I play from my hand 9 health bonuses! This card allows me to draw 9 health tokens from my deck!
"Are you playing on ultra violence?"
"I must be... "
"Not even real"
"Are you using the computer for homework?"
"I must be..."
Not even... real...
Are you cheesing them?
"You have to."
I expected only 2,5 people would get it...
The Steffen Winterfeldt Jump is an actual term, There is also the George Bell BFG Grab that you can do in this map.
But pros don't need either, I tell you what.
Sure helps on Nightmare, tho
I guess those who complained about Sigil didn't remember or play Romero's levels here. I mean, they should have known what they were getting themselves into.
I honestly felt SIGIL was less cruel than E4M6
@@grimspecs4752 E4M6 is by far my fav TFC level
I think Romero always preferred to limit mobility in his levels, using cramped spaces, narrow ledges, hurt floors, or a combination of these. Knee Deep in the Dead seems to be more of an exception than a good representation of his style. He was learning to craft 3D levels, and also explicitly wanted to introduce the player to Doom's gameplay while showing off the engines capabilities. After that, each and every Doom level of his features narrow ledges and/or cramped rooms and corridors. Only Industrial Zone (Map15) is more open, providing the obligatory exception to the rule.
So yeah, we shouldn't be surprised that Sigil looks more like Perfect Hatred (E4M2) or The Living End (Map29) and less like Episode 1.
@@grimspecs4752 Agreed, nothing in Sigil comes close to E4M6's difficulty. Even the two Cyberdemons in E5M5 are easier to deal with (at least once you know how to telefrag them).
@@grimspecs4752 E4M6 is brutal, but only if you're the kind of player who refuses to save. I think Sigil is harder in a couple of the levels mid-episode where it's pitch black, or the outdoors one where the Cyberdemon will splat you if you're not careful. The only way to even kill it is to telefrag into lava.
The Absence of Fear. Savage.
God I love E4. About to dive in!
Edit: MtPain sees E4M1 and E4M2 as the darn good maps they are. What a legend!
As someone who doesn't like them the problem isn't that they're bad levels it's that their the opening two levels. In fact considering how easy map 9 and 4 are this whole episode has a dumb level order
@@anonymouskaiju9101 Still think they should've swapped Unruly Evil and Hell Beneath TBH
It's not that they aren't good maps. They're great maps, even. They just shouldn't be maps 1 and 2. Maps 1, 2, and 9 are ball bustingly hard, map 3 steps it down, maps 4 and 5 are cakewalks, then map 6 goes back to breaking your balls again. They should have re-arranged the order of maps in episode 4 to form a more natural difficulty curve instead of all these cliffs everywhere.
In my opinion, E4M1, 2, and 6 are the only good maps from TFC.
First of all, yes. Whenever I play through E4, excitement follows a W-shaped curve. The first two levels are thrilling, then we calm down a bit (I usually skip the secret level so I don't die of shock from the sudden drop in quality), E4M6 shortly gets us to peak excitement again, and in E4M8 it slowly ramps up as we anticipate the end of the episode while playing through an actual final level.
Second of all, I'm on to you. You might convince some fool that you look like Bowser, but I know your true form to be Zappa.
I mostly enjoy Episode 4, I feel like most people only really remember the 3 ball busters which is a shame because the other stuff is still good if not as good.
Sever The Wicked and Unto The Cruel are my favorites since I think they're challenging without being too brutal.
Unruly Evil should've been the first map of the episode TBH
Fear feels more like a deathmatch map than an actual single player map
And the other two I only really remember because you can either exploit the level design to skip keys (They Will Repent) or they have a secret that's technically broken but still possible to get with very strict timing and a perfectly angled cyberdemon rocket (And Hell Followed)
Fun Fact: It took me until playing Thy Flesh Consumed to realize DOOM had a run button because Perfect Hatred is impossible otherwise. I somehow managed to beat the first 3 episodes and Hell Beneath without figuring that out. I could not tell you how.
Romero's maps are by far my favorites from this wad, followed closely by Sever the Wicked. It's cool that Shawn Green got a shoutout in Doom II's soundtrack with Shawn's Got the Shotgun.
God, this is the best channel I’ve found. Keep of the great work, man!
This easily has the best starting level of any commercial Doom wad.
E4M1 is such a masterpiece, really thinking outside the box, and perfect example of "less is more."
I offer you a challenge: If you were to look at Doom’s “Original 3” episodes + Thy Flesh Consumed + Sigil as 1 continuous 45-map game, what would your Dean’s List look like?
Off the top of my head, seeing as there were no A’s in this episode or the Sigil episode, more or less the same except for class president, which would be Sigil’s Unspeakable Persecution. Perfect hatred would be third in the class behind E1M6.
Nice! I like your insight and thanks for taking the time to reply. Your videos are amazing and fun to watch. I grew up on Doom in my teens and still love the classic nature of it today.
the master levels are improved by getting a mod that adds in the rejects, maps from the series they are plucked from, and then turns them into episodes. JP lebreton also made one that does that divides them into chapters by author which is up on his jp.itch.io page. but if you have 6 hours to kill and can figure out slade and map info, it's a fun project. playing them in an episodic format makes them more tolerable in my opinion
Hey Decino sent me here - I really love this series. Keep it up man! Here’s to lots more subs 👍🏼
Also, hi from England!
Hello from the states!
Maybe that lost soul is hidden away in such a remote corner of Theresa Chasar's map 'cause it ripped itself out of her head!
XD
"Stephan Winterfeldt jump" is definitely a phrase I've heard people in the Doom community use.
Just finished this series. Very entertaining, you've earned yourself a sub! :-)
Fun fact about myself: the first few maps in Thy Flesh Consumed was the first Doom levels I ever played.
I played it with iddqd and all the weapons though, but it was fun.
This review was a joy to watch. I'm excited to see what else you are going to cover on this channel.
I still remember trying to play this episode after finishing the original three. Once I got to the second level, I knew it was a mistake
ahhhhh, killing barons of hell with the shotgun, the most Doom 1 thing ever
Again I found agreement in Perfect Hatred being one of the best official Doom maps, and it's a masterclass on how to make a challenging Doom map without Doom 2 enemies and without being unfair or depriving resources.
As for Hell Beneath, I appreciate the extreme resource deprivation and oppressiveness of it, but I can't like the lack of health with all the Shotgunners around, as the map then just veers into RNG-reliant territory, especially if played with fast monsters. If the Shotgunners were replaced with Imps, or the map kept the few Medkits from the lower difficulties, I would have liked it. In this regard, I found the PSX Doom version of it an improvement, as it keeps the Medkits on UV and replaces the Barons with Knights so you don't need to group them up to kill everything, but also moves the red key so you can't grab it through the cage to cheese the map, on top of the colored lighting adding to the oppressive atmosphere even if the map lost some of its teeth.
As for Fear, one caveat for it is that if played on fast monsters, that opening room is absolutely brutal and the map becomes on par in difficulty with the other heavy hitters of Episode 4. On normal UV though, yeah it just feels like an unremarkable reject map.
Also, Against Thee Wickedly should have been the final map, E4M7 and E4M8 are so underwhelming coming after it. When I did my saveless fast monsters UV playthrough while Pistol Starting each map, E4M6 was by far the hardest map of both Doom 1 and Doom 2, and took me hours to beat, but then I went and beat E4M7 + E4M8 first try, what an anticlimax.
I never understood why E4M4 was the 4th level of the episode, imo should've been the first and then E4M1 should've been the 4th map with how aggressive the level is.
I wanted to see a Dean review of Hell Beneath so bad after Civvie made it into a Fortress of Mystery-tier meme.
I'm watching your videos and I keep finding the number of hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy références you sneak in. A man of culture and sophistication. Now let's all buy shoes to feel better
Edit: now that I feel better I'm subbing
I remember beating Inferno for the first time (not pistol start, killed spiderdemon in less than 10 seconds with bfg)
I then saw the fourth episode, Thy Flesh Consumed...
First level: "Ha it's just shotgunners, this will be easy... Uhhhh where are the health packs?"
Hey, I'd like to thank you for your video on Alien Vendetta. Your video convinced me to try it out and now I'm having lots of fun with it, so... thanks, man, keep up the good work =)
Perfect hatred gave me the doom equivalent of Vietnam flashbacks. Good job John. (Also Thy flesh consumed is a mixed bag for me)
This keep getting better and better! Looking forward for future episodes, you choose the best wads to review.
I'll keep waiting for the scythes!
Edit: I've never heard the term "steffen winterfeldt jump" ever before .-.
Pistol start each level of TFC? Absolute madman
Edit: I must suck
It’s the most fun way to play
You don't suck, your journey just hasn't lead you to that point yet. And maybe it never will. Pistol starting is only fun if you actually want to do it.
@@durdleburdle3521 bingo
I beat this one for the first time just last year, and it's got me starting to once again appreciate the difficulty of older games. That feeling of dickishness that they radiate gives them so much character. I'm glad that the Ancient Gods DLC is trying to continue that feeling a little. (SPOILERS: see the trap with the 1-up in the first level.)
God I love this series. Every new episode that comes out I watch as soon as I can. My guess on the next episode is Scythe just because you were talking about Fear. Gotta love speed wads.
I really like the construction of E4M2 and the cathedral structure of E4M6, it feels well spot on with most of the placements in this episode. Overhaul my favorites from Thy Flesh Consumed.
E4M2 and E4M6 are my favorites in Thy Flesh Consumed. I really wish Sandy Petersen got to make a map for it, I really wonder what sort of crazy gimmick he would come up with.
Episode 4 was punishing when recording my "ultra-violence, 100% everything and saves only at the beginning of the level" run.
It was my fourth time playing Doom and I think I spent more time playing these levels to completion during this run than the 12 hours I spent playing it for the first time 2 years ago.
I can't even remember how many hours it took me to beat it to its maximum.
All I remember is that Hell Beneath and Perfect Hatred took me 2 hours together to beat.
Hell Beneath was punishing because a Spectre passed somewhere that he was completely ignored by the Barons.
I spent 30 min. on it, one day, and 30 min. the other.
That happened on my succesful run and I started Perfect Hatred with only 12% health and 70% armor and recorded it the same day that I finished Hell Beneath.
Direct quote from me on that recording: "Oh my god, the next map is going to be hell if we're gonna start with only 12% health!".
I was so focused on that run that I almost didn't talk at all.
Instead of getting butchered by the Cacodemons trying to get the BFG by slamming into the wall with the Cyberdemon, I used my 5 rockets and a few shotgun shots to kill them.
I felt incredible after finishing those 2 maps.
Oh, and um... finishing Against Thee Wickedly first try, felt amazing too.
Love your videos, by the way!
I have a follow-up comment regarding E4M7. “And Hell Followed” was originally meant to be part of Dr. Sleep’s nine-level Inferno series, specifically the Eighth Canto, Chiron. I assume it was originally intended to have DOOM II assets like the prior maps, five of which became part of the Master Levels. The Ninth Canto, Waters of Lethe, was never released, and due to Dr. Sleep’s passing, I fear we’ll never know what his full vision of the Inferno series was meant to be.
0:40 "I hope the ancient gods is worth it folks" oh
It really is worth it
I'm glad I'm not the only one who kills the Barons in E4 the way you did, letting them group together. You probably already know this, but you can really evade the shotgun ambush near the chaingun/red key by just opening the hidden door that takes you back outside, then let the dudes inside waste each other. In the secret level, that Baron is trapped in there because you're supposed to telefrag him.
1:58
Playing Hell Beneath with multiplayer items on will give you a supercharge through one of the teleporters in the rocket launcher secret, and even gives you a berserk pack at the end.
No chance for No Rest for the Living?
6:48 "PREPARE THYSELF"
I think the act of slowly lowering a dunce hat onto a caco head is considerably far worse than any glory kill in the modern Doom games
>Thy Flesh Consumed doesn't do much to justify its existence as a commercial product.
The original Doom wasn't sold in stores, instead using the shareware and mail order model. Doom 2 was then made to be sold in stores. They then decided to re-release the first Doom in stores, added an extra episode as an incentive for people to buy it, and called it The Ultimate Doom. I would feel mixed about that, but apparently pre-existing owners got the new content for free through a patch.
So, in summary, Thy Flesh Consumed was sold as a commercial product.
Fun fact, on E4M3 the south eastern torch can be tagged by doing a void glide
I was wondering when this review would come, and I’m glad it finally did! Nice job breaking down all the maps...here are some thoughts I have from the perspective of someone who plays continuously:
1. E4M1 is garbage if you try to 100% it. It’s entirely possible to exit the map right after grabbing the blue key without firing a shot if you’re patient enough to shotgun the first Baron and most of the other monsters (maybe a little bit of chaingun thrown in, too). The Nine Inch Nails “secret” is ridiculous and serves no practical purpose, so why waste those twelve rockets? Much better to save them for the start of...
2. E4M2, one of the most hectic hot starts I ever encountered. It’s so much easier to deal with those cacos when you have twelve rockets to start. And the George Bell BFG grab (which you didn’t show here) DEFINITELY makes the gameplay less stressful.
3. The broken secrets in E4M3 and E4M7 were actually fixed via scripting in GZDoom, so each map ends up with only two secrets each and allows 100% to be entirely feasible.
"The Nine Inch Nails “secret” is ridiculous and serves no practical purpose, so why waste those twelve rockets? Much better to save them for the start of..."
Agreed about that secret. But, if you're pistol starting each map, those 12 rockets are gone anyway so you might as well use them.
GZdoom also fixes the broken doom 2 secrets in Industrial Zone and Monster Condo.
@@mjc0961 Granted, that would indeed be the case for someone pistol starting each map. I just don’t see the point of that gameplay for an essentially meaningless secret. If they’d put a BFG or a plasma gun in there, anything of actual value, then I could understand taking on that challenge of the last four Barons.
@Aaron Berger E4M1 forces you think outside the box in order to 100% it with no saves, which I have done many times. You have to rely on demon in-fighting to conserve ammo and get all the Barons to group together to get the most out of rocket splash damage. E4M2 also forces you to think outside the box. Your instinct is to stand and fight, but you will run out of shells if you do that. Instead, the map teaches you to push back the Cacos far enough just so you can pick up the rad suit, then go get enough shells to survive that first encounter.
Sever the Wicked was definitely one of my favorite maps back in the day. I originally only played doom on the 3DO and then the Playstation.
That's a great Doom WAD analysis channel. Just found out!
Usually it's either just playing or not going into detail.
Good video. I personally find E4M1 and E4M2 too hard, but I think it's their placement. If they were later levels and had a few more resources they wouldn't be so bad.
The entire appeal of those levels is that you don't have resources yet, establishing that this episode is going to be more of a challenge than the first 3 episodes. It forces you to move around the level and scavenge a bit first instead of just killing everything in sight as soon as you see it. The combat itself is a sort of puzzle, an idea which became central in Doom Eternal.
If only this was the Master levels insted of what we got.
"E4M4 is mostly harmless"
Without that torch secret though... hoo boy it's @.@
Actually it was E4M5 that was mostly harmless
Oops, well e4m4 still hard af
PRO SCYTHE WHEN CIVVIE
My favourite mainline doom episode I think
Just found this series and it's neat. Can you take a look at Hellbound as well?
Get that plasma rifle. You want that, everybody wants that.
Just get past these 800 Barons, it'll great it'll be FINE.
Sever the Wicked was always my favorite map out of this episode, no it’s not as hard as the first 2 maps but the action is spread out fairly evenly across the level and it’s entertaining from start to finish much like the whole episode is.
Side note: Yes the first 2 maps were hard as f___ and are still tough today but after finishing the new DLC for Doom Eternal....I now have a new definition for difficult and brutal Doom combat 😬😳
For someone who prefers peterson over romero, you wouldn't expect someone like dean to have the top two maps be romero maps, but here we are.
No Petersen in TFC
@@MtPain27 yeah, fair point.
@@MtPain27 And it shows when you point that out.
We think alike, I hated Against Thee Wickedly for many years, as that map was usually the end of my runs in this episode. I didn't grow to really love it until years later when using the map to practice on. I love Perfect Hatred and grew to love it from playing it repeatedly. Unruly Evil feels like it should've been the first map of this episode, swapping places with Hell Beneath. Also agree on Shawn Green, definitely underrated.
I think that Against the wickedly Stands from other levels not just for the insane dificulty on nightmare and pistol start, i think is for the visuals, Many doom levels have name like: Unholy cathedral, Suburbs Etc, But have abstract level design, Against the wickedly stand becausw not only have a good level design, It has an actual castle design, in the begining, You walk trought the moutains, until you Stand in front of the castle, where you have to enter troughr the lower part like some kind of sewers, Then you enter inside the castle and you walk arround the windows, Balconies etc, Its just amazing how Can have a good castle structure and good level design.
e4m9 looks more like a deathmatch arena than a single player map to me
i thought theresa chasar was an id employee. she was admin staff i'm pretty sure. the woman whose head gets ripped out to become the first lost soul in doom 3 is named after her, pretty sure
Yeeeeeeees! Love seeing your videos on my feed
There's still Doom 64 if you want a commercial Doom to cover
You might be right on E4M3, cuz I literallyforgot it existed til watching
9:02
Many thank to you
I never ever know about this secret until now
I think I heard the term "Winterfeldt jump" once in a post, but that was it.
The Steffen Winterfeldt jump eh, a classic in the series! 😂😂
Nah never heard of it.
Same lol
Nice Douglas Adams reference
Really love these videos man
We have hell beneath, but when will we get *Hell Above* ?
I know this might be too late for you to see it, but I had an idea: After re-watching your doom I review, you commented that you didn't know why map E2M3 wasn't like a refinery:(e.g. covered in vines, weird flesh elevator room, a secret door that opens onto where you started), and my headcanon is it WAS a refinery, but hell's influence made it all weird, twisting it and warping it into the map you play, kinda like how some other shores of hell levels have both skull keys and keycards.
That's Episode 2 in a nutshell.
5:57 perfect sync
3:23 Thanks for this! I fully read it!
Yep I rewound and read the text lol I have no idea if people use the term or not but I'll use it from now on
And honestly, ive only heard of that Steffen Winterfeldt jump referenced on one occasion.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this episode released as a free update for owners of the original Doom? And later just released with it as Ultimate Doom.
Yes.
0:47 - I can't possibly imagine why. 🦷
Nothing says shawn green like that guy who made bloodfalls and those two ballar episode 4 maps who also became a monk
I still don't believe it, though. I want actual evidence for that one. What is true for sure is that back in his Bungie(yes, that one) days he was also a Super Bowl player, but that's not in his wikipedia biography.
I realize that i never skip the intros, i now the rules and stuff, but i never skip them idk why.
One thing i know is, thoose who skip them are imposters.
Cool episode!
You forgot to mention how you are able to skip E4M5 almost at the beginning of the level
what if e4m9 was called "fear them not"
Good job sir. Now to Plutonia 2 / revisited?
For me it's awesome so it gets
A+
Out of curiousity. What's your opinion on Whispers of Satan and Speed of Doom megawads?
Never played the first, almost done playing the second and it’s really excellent
OK, Final Results:
Hell Beneath 8
Perfect Hatred 7
Fear 8.5
Sever The Wicked 8
Unruly Evil 6.5
They Won't Repent 8
Against Them Wickedly 8.5
And Hell Followed 8
Onto The Cruel 7.5
This is gonna be fun lol.
Perfect Hatred and Against Thee Wickedly are my absolutely top favorites in TFC, and I even enjoy pistol-starting them (PH is even worth pistol-starting, at least you have health :-) ), because pistol-starting them is a fair and exciting challenge, not unnecesarily frustrating bullshitry, like quite a couple of Doom and especially Doom 2 levels.
I agree!
So... what were you going to say in map 1* about running away?
*Answer probably contains dome legal jargon that needs another rustled sheet of paper to explain. Please continue watching and playing responsibly.
since you dont wanna do master levels right now will you do doom 64?
Some day. I've never played it.
@@MtPain27 It's really good, the level design is probably my favorite out of the classic style doom games.
but one important thing... If you do get to playing it, I hope you love hell knights ;)
@@MtPain27 i feel like you'd really dig 64. its atmosphere is incredible and the way it leans into horror makes a lot of sense - especially coming from the perspective of not having music in DOOM growing up, just sound effects, so it was always pretty eerie to me. best batch of commercial DOOM maps, easily.
@@bombthing Hell Knights are the perfect balance of tanky and dangerous for a common enemy, you could sprinkle them just about anywhere and they'd work - the guys at Midway knew!
I think it was more of a case of "hmm, we threw out like 4 monsters because of cartridge space, what do we replace them with" and they just put HKs and Barons instead
If/when you eventually play Doom 64, I suggest grabbing the re-release instead of Doom 64 EX; I ran into some weird mouse hitching/lock-up issues with the latter, even after applying the Win10 SDL fix. The re-release has its own share of issues too, one of which (the Baron's melee damage calc) crosses over from EX. Here's a guide I found very helpful for fixing these sorts of things that will likely never see an official patch due to Bethesda's involvement: steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2117925012
100% agree for once. On like, everything.
E4M1 has more health on more reasonable difficulties like HMP. HMP is the only reasonable difficulty lol.
Does zdoom always "forget" that you turn off "check ammo" option? Or is it some kind of element of show?
Yeah it actually always forgets
5:49 - a Micky Mouse room?
As in weak, silly, insubstantial
@@MtPain27 true, but such a memorable way to put it is why I like this channel! :D
So wait was thy flesh consumed released after doom 2 or before doom 2? I always assumed it was released before doom 2 as padding till that game was released but I never found any release date.
Nope, it was released after Doom 2 as a bonus for people who bought the retail version of Doom, The Ultimate Doom, which was released in 1995.
@@MtPain27 Huh, well that explains the unnatural difficulty spike from inferno to thy flesh consumed and also the nine inch nails logo seeing as by that point they were probably well into development for quake at that point.
The first Doom WAD I ever played the Pinkies ran around saying "F*** you you little Dip Sh*t" (from Terminator 2) and the Imps snorting was changed to "Ekke ekke ekke ptang zoo boing arouza" (from Monty Python) LOL! I am pretty sure it sucked but I would really like to find it again just to relieve the joy of 3rd grade humor in Doom!
Better to be hated than forgotten, right? Yea, Hell Beneath would be my dunce cap if Fear didn't exist. What I disagree with the most, though, is its difficulty rating: for me, it's no less than A-.
We share top picks, especially Against Thee Wickedly which seems to ALWAYS wring me like a dish cloth, whether continuous or pistol start. We who like Perfect Hatred seem to be very few and far spaced as well.
I thought you were gonna mention Daisy, but no such luck. Too minor to remark on?
I mean, there was the zoom in on her severed head at the end
Another point against Fear is that it breaks the naming theme of Thy Flesh Consumed.
You have a string of eight levels (along with the episode itself) that're all named after phrases in the Bible, then the secret level completely fucks it up. Was it really that hard to find a ninth name?