It's not just that they're humanoid, it's that they have clearly identifiable facial features. Makes them less alien than the amalgamations of flesh that you see with most SH 1-3 monsters. Honestly, they look more like Outlast enemies than SH enemies. And even the more interested one lack the physical abstraction that define the best of the series. They're too literal in concept: human body melded and impaled with metal, face stretched out via hooks, guy with a cinderblock hammer and a gas mask ect. Meanwhile I don't even know how to begin to describe something like the Closer or Pendulum in SH3. They're not terrible design across the board, but overall it's one of the weakest rogues gallery in the series.
Not even just that, there can be good humanoid SH characters, but I feel like this game didn't take enough advantage of the uncanny valley with it where it rlly should have.
This is going to be very mean, so apologies to any Downpour diehards. Everything is subjective. To each their own. But Clive Barker was mentioned as an inspiration for Downpour's enemies. I have to say, both Clive Barker's _Undying_ and _Jericho_ games had more gruesome and intriguing monster designs. I'm sorry, Downpour. But in my opinion, you failed even at taking inspiration from another creator.
@@snorpy I am confident. But I'm also saying that _Clive Barker's Jericho,_ a critically panned game, is superior to _Silent Hill Downpour._ Maybe I'm just apologizing to myself. Because I've essentially taken a blood pact to fully experience every Silent Hill title to exhaustion. I'm so sad that this one turned out to be such a waste of time. There are things I really wanted to enjoy, little niggling things that sort of kept me going. But it almost feels like the game is intentionally trying to piss me off. At least it's better than _Homecoming._ Oh, and the secret Surprise ending was pretty cute.
I always found it fascinating that the screamers were always in police cars. Murphy associates police cars--the sirens really--with his wife's scream of grief and torment. No doubt the PTSD is still there and he still feels like the cops are chasing him, like they did on his cross state police chase.
I think the monsters felt less Silent-Hilly because they had eyes. All or most of the original monsters had no eyes and that plus their body contortion feels like iconic Silent Hill monster design.
I had a strange glitch with this game, when outside in the town the enemies would just approach my character and then just stand at a distance. It actually made the game really creepy. Downpour was a good horror game on its own merit.
Well it's was definitely a better survival and or horror game than Resident Evil 8. Capcom is slipping back into action to try and get more sales from cowards that are too scared of their HORROR games lol
I don’t think that was a glitch but an intended feature. Had a lot of those prison monsters stalk me and back up into the fog. Would’ve made it terrifying if they were designed like Silent Hill monstrosities and not twitchy humanoids
I haven't finished the game but I don't dislike using humanoid figures; they needed a bit more variety or possibly change over time. The further in you play, the more deformed they become
I guess shattered memories kind of scratches that itch, though the way that they are implemented is wildly different from the main series and there's really only the one enemy type that never changes mechanically
I think the main problem with the enemy design and by extension the vibe of the games after 4, is that they're missing the abstract quality that was so prevalent in those earlier titles. Those games had a weird dreamlike atmosphere that is just completely absent in the later games. The enemies of 2 & 3 look they jumped straight out of a Francis Bacon painting with obscured features and the eery suggestions of mouths and lips. You were never quite sure what you were looking at.
The same can be said about the nurses from SH2 but what made them iconic is their movement. The problem is not the design, it is the movement that's genetic
i think for the prisoners that may be true, but movement wise both the doll and the screamer have unique animations and movement styles that definitely add to their character.
plus, the nurses outline was still very unique, titled head, distorted baby face, the skirt and the pipe held in limp arms... you could pick out that sillouhette for sure.
@@thegamingmuse .. Hi would you please consider reviewing the 'Dementium' DS-game series? It was literally meant and MADE in the image of silent hill with ALL that other game's horror, Mirroring SH, But they merely made their own game in the end with a different-title and ALL the difficulty of a true silent-hill game. I really, Really ask that you take that game into consideration, As it's WHAT would have been if konami had green-lit 'Silent Hill-DS'
For me, all of these monsters, in fact the entire game, make more sense if it's all taken from Anne's perspective. I know there is no evidence to really support my theory, but I still feel Downpours original concept was to be Anne's Story, not something relegated to an ill fated DLC and the best Silent Hill comic series to date.
Well, originally it was supposed to be co-op with Murphy and Anne working together (or at the very least that there would be segments where Anne is playable). A cancelled game focused on a police officer who was involved in a shooting and having to deal with the psychological ramifications of that.
Not gonna lie, a carnival themed prison full of prisoner clowns & other bizarre cenobite like creatures & ghosts ala The Suffering set in an abandoned town could make for quite an interesting horror game.
The answer is yes, they're poorly designed. Or at the very least, uninspired. Lots of old Silent Hill monsters were humanoid while still being unique, but these completely miss the mark.
Fun fact about the prisoner: There’s a subtype called the stabber who has a large sharp blade stabbed into his hand. His hand now swollen and red. This subtype very rarely seen though.
It will never cease to amaze me that so many years on, there are still interesting tidbits to be gleaned from the Silent Hill series. While I'll always hope for more, a part of me has accepted that the series's time has, sadly, been allowed to pass by a greedy publisher. This particular episode reminds me to ask, Muse, if you've considered doing a detailed breakdown like this for the Fatal Frame series. The ghosts and the lore surrounding the rituals is so uniquely Japanese, that I'm really wondering how much might have been lost in translation. Sadly, Fatal Frame, despite the remaster of the Maiden of Black Water, also seems to have faded with Silent Hill into the great horror games that were.
The problem is the facial features, eyes noses etc makes them look more human than previous SH game monsters did. The symbolism wasn't lazily done, it was on par with previous games...but fighting the Screamers and Prisoner/brawlers/juggernaughts felt pretty much the same as fighting the cult members in Homecoming which people didn't like
I always saw the monsters being human like because Murphy lost his son to another human being, and in general, a lot of his trauma come from inflicting or witnessing harm to those around him
Seriously!!! I'm so upset that they didn't use police enemies _at all._ Imagine replacing the weird angry red ball chase segments with that. The sounds of police ordering for you to halt, and ravenously barking K-9's right on your heels, their flashlights getting brighter and more intense, obscuring the player's vision. Instead of sucking the life out of McMurphy, the mass of unseen officers could even start opening fire. It would make so much more thematic sense-- I'm still totally baffled by the screaming sucky void thing.
I thought they were so boring and generic. The old SH monsters are iconic, you won’t find anything like them anywhere else. Downpour’s creatures just looked like members of Slipknot LOL
I get what they were going for w/ a lot of these designs but I feel they're a little too on the nose. They kinda remind me of the monsters in The Suffering (which makes some sense due to the similar subject matter) but less exciting. I think what makes most of them fall flat is probably the way the combat works in the game tbh. The game expecting you to block these creatures strikes makes them less threatening and running away from them is harder than in past games due to the way their ai works. Enemies like the weeping bat will do this annoying in and out thing and then your weapon can also break. Its just really easy to get frustrated fighting the monsters and that makes it pretty hard to be scared of them. There's also the missed opportunities with the boogeyman and the void thing that chases you. imo the void shouldn't have been in the game and the boogeyman should have chased you during those sections to build a better through line and make him more intimidating. He probably also shouldn't have just been a big guy in a gas mask. They're are scarier pro wrestlers. A better design there really could have done a lot for the game. I do think Downpour has some really good ideas. I loved the open world town and thought the side quests were pretty great. I don't think the game is completely without merit like some do but I do feel like its creature design is a letdown. Cool you got something out of them though because at the end of the day that just means you got to have a better time with the game.
The designs aren't terrible, they just don't suit Silent Hill monsters. Silent Hill monsters tend to incorporate human elements with inhumane movements and twisted anatomies. The monsters in Downpour just looks like demonic humans. It wouldn't be a problem in most other video games of the genre, but in Silent Hill they don't fit.
Might have been too one-dimensional with the monster designs. They seems very single-issue - for lack of a better word. When actually, it seems like they'd benefit from meshing a combination of issues together. Take the sex doll - ok, bloke gets locked up, frustration, etc - but we've sort of done this over and over again. You've got to do more than 'you, however, are maidenless' to sell that as being relevant to the MC. You could totally do some cross over on various themes betwee, for example, incarceration and sexuality, that could be warped into something more than 'all holes are for dick/screaming' symbolism.
In Anne's Story, the Dolls relate to how Anne sees herself for cheating on her husband in her quest for revenge on Murphy. In Murphy's case, it's how focusing on distractions (the Shadows) get you nowhere. And hey, sexual frustration is a theme in every Silent Hill game except the original.
I'm not a huge fan of Downpour, but I loved the concept and execution of the Doll enemy. The misdirection, the attack from the creature's shadow. It's very Jungian.
Your channel is the only redeeming part of the SH community. Glad you take deeper looks at things vs what the rest of the community does (trying to see SH2 in everything and act like everything is a ripoff of 2 as if it’s the only game/lore that matters to them).
somehow, i hadn't registered the fact the monsters you see the most often have a very similar, humanoid silhouette. there's no immediate visceral "what the fuck is THAT?" when you first see each type, and because you don't get to really linger on them because you're too busy trying not to die, you don't get to appreciate the details of the design. the doll is probably my favorite because of the twist in how you fight them, but even those just register as unnerving when you first see them. i have two "gold standards" for silent hill monster intros: the mannequins in sh2 and the twin victims in sh4. the first is a more standard jump scare, but it's very effective. and the twins are just unbelievably horrifying--it's the top half of a person, sort of, and it's POINTING AT YOU. and then it just RUNS AT YOU. downpour was really lacking in that memorable entrance department. i mean i guess the bat things were freaky at first, but after awhile they were more annoying than creepy. tl;dr: the monster designs in downpour were cool but didn't work with the way the game itself was designed.
@@ravenofroses 2 heart attacks lol, my friend had one with me. Cant decide which was worse, that or seeing henry covered in blood outside the front door
I loved the exploration in Downpour and the soundtrack during those explorations were good enough to make you feel creeped out or melancholic. But that's about it. The story wasn't very good and it surprised me that some of the side quests were more interesting than the main one. I don't think the problem with the creatures were because the town was too big for just 2 types of monsters. The problem with the creatures is that they were so uninspired... They looked like designs Clive Barker discarded... In previous games the monsters were so unique and interesting looking. In Downpour, like someone said, they looked like Slipknot band members. I also find it shocking that they did not created a monster based on prison r*pe fear... There's a small hint in one of the puzzles but that's it. Or some sort of monster based on Napier mangled corpse, that could show up when the rain start and chase the player. I don't hate Downpour, I just think the people that made it, wasn't very creative... I mean, I think Homecoming is abhorrent in several ways (I got the UFO ending in my first playthrough) but at least the monsters design was very interesting (apart from the Order guys, the dogs and the nurses)...
Totally agree. Can't tap into the uncanny valley when your main monsters just look like normal people with a bit of horror make up. It's not disturbing. It's just generic stuff we've seen everywhere else. Just a goofy ghost train, presented by normalised NPCs who just sound like normal people speaking cryptically. Always been a fan of SH, but Downpour was unsubtle, blatant and as a result, hamfisted. You could identify and rationalise everything to the point it stopped being scary, and instead turned into some campfire ghost story experience, complete with someone saying "WooooOOOOOooooo" during the supposedly frightening moments. It looked pretty, but it felt pathetic and really hailed the bottom of a downward slope SH had been descending into since leaving the hands of Team Silent. It was just some game.
I enjoyed the game, as broken it was. But I still think the monster designs were weak and not as creative. Maybe if it was for another game it would be alright but not for Silent Hill.
Absolutely amazing work on a game that I think gets too much hate. I might be somewhat biased, as this was my first game in the series. After this I hunted down all the best. Fell in love with SH1, SH2, SH3 and Shattered memories. Tbh I love all of them in my own way tho. ( except book of memories. Wasn't a fan of that one.) One question tho if you wouldn't mind. What about the weeping bats? What do they represent? I believe their the most unsettling base creature in the game imo.
Same. My first SH game too that got me into the series. We might just be bias lol. Im glad though because I definitely enjoyed it for what it was because I didnt have the other to compare it to yet.
Something I notice is that each monster seems to come from a different area in the game. For example, the Screamers arsene crawling out of the ground in the monastery, where there's a huge crack and growls can be heard from within. Obviously, the bats are from the cave and the dolls are emphasized in the centenial building.
The concept art for those creatures is so much better than what we saw in play. So much wasted potential with this game, it's begging for a fan overhaul mod.
to some extent i wonder if time or inexperience w modeling software limited what they were doing? the screamers original face was so much wider in the mouth... still, its clear there were solid ideas here that werent fully realized.
Another great video! I`d love to see Downpour get a remaster, if they could fix the glitches and stuttering frame-rate it would be much more worth it. I wounder could they add back the "Trainman" boss? It looked pretty unique!
I personally kinda feel as though the team might've missed out regarding utilizing the more outdoors elements of the game's world. Thinking back, a lot of Silent Hill games up to Downpour were concentrated on the "urban" aspects of the setting, in hospitals, bars, the mall, theaters, etc., but didn't really focus on the natural world and the horrors that lie in it. One thing that might've been interesting to show could have been the natural world feeling like it's own particular prison to Murphy and Ann, ironic given nature's symbolic connection to concepts like freedom, which Silent Hill as a setting is very strong at corrupting and twisting around. Decaying forests, swarms of carrion or maggots, pupae that birth grotesque monstrosities reminiscent of animals and pests found in prison like moths, rats, termites, roaches or the like.
I thought the monsters were bland too, they looked really uninspired and generic. But I haven't thought of it that way until you mentioned it, but Downpour does have some very interesting monsters like the wheelchair man, but the majority of our experiences will have been dealing with two humanoid monsters, the Screamer and Prisoner (which is compounded by such a large map, however the Screamer was put to good use in the Telltale Heart sidequest). And why haven't I made that connection before with Murphy's wife's name "Carol" with the "Screamer"? Thats such an interesting insight into how their relationship must have devolved after their son's death. It was interesting to hear you say in the previous video that this was your first Silent Hill game, yet you know so much more than me (and most fans!). Anyways, I'm glad to see you giving some love to Silent Hill: Downpour this month for its 10th anniversary :)
I'm still watching the video, but iirc Barker was only _kinda_ the mind behind Pinhead. From what I'd heard, in the OG book he was a naked, female-appearing Cenobite, known as the Priest. I mention it more as a note than as a criticism, though. (And I'm obviously out of my depth here 😅)
that is one of the few Barker books I havent read surprisingly, so you could be right, though I imagine as director he had some influence on makeup in the film.
As the mind behind "The Hellbound Heart" (the original story the film is based on) and the director of Hellraiser, most of the character's design as a Cenobite leader and its visual design come from Barker himself. You're right that the name "Pinhead" doesn't come from Barker though - the character is unnamed in the original film and goes by "The Priest," "Hell Priest" or "the Cold Man" in various Barker-penned books and stories. The name "Pinhead" came from the crew who worked on Hellraiser, and Barker himself pretty much hates the name and never uses it.
After finishing the game, I thought the reason the dolls weren't visible were because they Anne's monsters. Just like how Murphy can't see that he himself is a Boogeyman to her, likewise he also can't fully see the other monsters her traumas have conjured in Silent Hill.
All I am is reminded of The Suffering when I see the common monsters in this one (the other survival horror game before this set in a prison). Even Homecoming had more traditional looking "abstract" monster design (even though one is just a Lying Figure ripoff)
Currently playing this after sh4, it feels fresh and new, just wish it wasnt rushed when it comes to performance. And yes i think the open area design hurt how encounters work, the smaller areas have good moments and build up for encounters, the first weeping bat was a good one.
Both I think. I believe that's what most of the monster's designers intended but wanted to add more but couldn't due to either not enough time or staff to speed up the process as most of these good games have much content that didn't make the cut
The thing about Downpour's enemies, is they were more annoying than scary. Specifically the "screemer," the whole stunning you in place just was annoying. Their range was too long. Same thing with the bat creatures (not mentioned in the video), they would throw one punch, run away or just hang the ceiling away from you so you couldn't attack them. The designs were passable, but their combat was just too annoying. (Eliminating any scare factor they might have.) You can say the same thing about SH1, but the radio built suspension for each enemy you faced. In downpour, you just start to stager, when an enemy starts pounding you. It is very much like a game.
There were two parts in this game that gave me a pause and a bit of the creeps: both the times you can't fight back. The miners in the train ride and the part in the prison. Other than that, it wasn't scary at all
I do remember feeling like I was just fighting slightly tortured homeless people. Or rather, running from them, since combat is rather terrible. The most memorable thing about the screamer and Prisoner for me is how they seem to animation-cancel into another attack when you block them. Murphy just gets pummeled.
I wish you talked more about the Boogeyman here. I absolutely adore it, both in terms of design and symbolism. Absolutely baffling that people treat it like a reheated pyramid head (especially when we already have another Silent Hill game which LITERALLY reheated Pyramid Head.)
I personally believe time constraints and the fact that this was the team's only other game they made before they had to declare bankruptcy. Konami really didn't give them any sort of hand at all especially because they were also trying to sell the HD collection around that time and also have it out when the movie was coming out. In short I blame Konami
Why have the more important details be small when the camera literally bounces around 6-10 feet behind the player character. Its like watching tv in the house across the street.
There was so much good stuff in Downpour, and I always thought the monster design was one of the better aspects of it. I love how you're able to dig into the details and give the fuller picture. This video has me giving serious thought to unearthing my poor old PS3 and giving it another playthrough. (Maybe once I finish with Alan Wake.)
@@fartquaviasdingle7876 I enjoyed it well enough. It doesn't work on the same level as the original Team Silent titles but it had its own vibe that I like for what it is.
As someone who really loves Downpour, I find the focus on humanoids fascinating. Every creature is a "person", something to feel fear and/or disgust towards. Regret and remorse even, perhaps. A "bogeyman" of its own, if you'll allow me the dumb joke. I'm not sure why they didn't create more monsters, though I'm more willing to hedge my bets with "limited time to work" more than anything else. If I had to pick a real flaw, I guess I'd have to go with "it's less of a dream-logic nightmare and more of a reality-logic nightmare". The Weeping Bats are as abstractly nightmarish as you get with "normal" enemies, and they still more or less resemble the other monsters in silhouette. The monsters here are essentially people you'd pull your kid away from/closer to you if you encountered them on the street. People to judge first and reconsider later. I think at the very least, a traditional dog enemy would have benefited Downpour greatly, if they could have only added one more enemy. Break up everything else a little more. Outside of that...hmm...it's a bit hard to keep in-theme with the prison aesthetics, admittedly. For me, at least. But thinking back to other games, there's usually two or three types of aesthetics, right? People to fear, phobias, interests/obsessions, monsters born from books and plays... Maybe some water-based monsters, and things that pull from what Murphy's son liked/disliked, if not from Murphy himself. I think that woulda helped the vibes. I wish the dev team could have gotten a second chance. I would have loved to see what they'd do if they could try again.
I always thought the Bogeyman looked cool, but beyond that, he wasn't a very compelling "monster" design. But watching this video and examining the Bogeyman under the lens of this perspective... His design ends up feeling far more menacing. Even the most horrible, violent, and dangerous monsters of Silent Hill show some deformities, injuries, or are otherwise suffering in some way. The Bogeyman? He looks quite tidy and well kept, with not a single irregularity or peculiarity spotted from his trench coat. The Bogeyman represents anyone's most hated enemy, like an evil scapegoat. When people are at their most angry and most hateful, they're likely to view whoever ruined their lives as someone who hasn't suffered enough, and needs to feel the pain they have felt. Hell, even his movements are calm and human, compared to the erratic twitching or tired fumbling of other Silent Hill monsters. In the eyes of others, the Bogeyman never suffered, and only exists *to make others suffer.*
They lack creativity. They aren’t anything like the og silent hill monsters. These are monsters sure but they aren’t the deformed, unidentifiable Monsters we know and love
I certainly wasn't a fan of the monster designs. The doll is just about the only one I like, and that's just because of the caved-in mouth. To me, all the female characters seemed to represent sexual or bodily assault. And all the males were just other prisoners. They could have done so much more. I'm honestly shocked that there were no police officer flavored monsters, because that would have been a much better pursuing enemy. Way better than that angry glowing red ball-- like, what even _WAS_ that thing!? Stupid, lazy, and more annoying than disturbing. That's what. Also, I utterly despised that roaming cop car. It was nothing but tedious, so I solved the dispatcher puzzle as soon as I walked into the room. Not legitimately, I just brute-forced the codes, which was actually pretty easy. I never once felt intimidated by Downpour's enemies, and I would often mess with their feeble programming by luring them to get stuck on fences. And don't even get me started on the grossly derivative Boogeyman. Bleh.
Yes, Downpour's monsters are the worst in the series. The huge problem is that they're too human and too recognizable! Take Abstract Daddy from Silent Hill 2 or Siam from Silent Hill Homecoming: they are deformed figures with no facial traits. The series is about body horror and grotesque designs, while in Downpour you basically deal with creepy Halloween costumes. Even the best one, the Doll, is too "familiar" and feels out of place. Wheelman, on the other hand, is a great design and it makes me wonder if the last part of the game was developed by a different team (because it's way better than the rest).
You could argue that since they aren't designed to fit in with the game that the team were making then yes they are badly designed. It also feels disappointing that they looked outside to other media (like Clive Barker's) work for inspiration into the design. The monsters in SH2 and 3 had so much more detail and were totally unique.
those game monsters were also very very much influenced by outside media, thats just art design. Masahiro Ito named Alien as one of his own inspirations, and several monsters were inspired by Jacobs Ladder.
The Closer from SH3 was also inspired by Francis Bacon's drawing "Second Version of Triptych". A large majority of the monsters from SH2-3 took inspiration from other media, since that's how most artists create their art. They become molded by the influences of other artists or the natural world, and use that inspiration to create their own works.
@@AusVtuber totally right. The whole house art style for the series borrows heavily from Bacon. It's entirely legitimate for them to use external sources as references. I suspect that the old version of the screamers was inspired by the same images of soldiers who'd been given rudimentary plastic surgery to reconstruct their faces following head injuries as were referenced to design the splicers in BioShock and the similarity could have been part of the motivation to alter it. Artists use references and modify them constantly in all media because creativity isn't some ephemeral thing that you pluck out of the aether, it's part of how we process and understand the world around us on an emotional level.
Yeah they were too humanoid or monster you would find from any typical western horror film. Even silent hill 4 had some really freaky creature designs.
They actually came out at the same time, within weeks of each other, and honestly I don't see BoM as a main line title, it's a weird spinoff and is best enjoyed as such.
Clive Barker's style has it merits, but Silent Hill was built on Masahiro Ito's. One should not try to fix what isn't broken, and especially not using noticably different parts.
The Japanese devs also took inspiration from Clive Barker for basically everything from the monsters to the Otherworld, and he is most certainly not mainstream 'dogwater' stuff. His work is legendary, and I don't just mean Hellraiser, his books are all best sellers and the most haunting things I've ever read.
@@thegamingmuse i failed to express myself, what i meant is that american devs just used mainstream monsters as inspiration, people are used to see them and know them already , so they look less scary and weird, while team silent got inspired by mosters design that are way less know and much more abstract so they look much scarier
I would enjoy these videos so much more without the terrible noise filter and low-res footage quality. I mean, I get that "it's Silent Hill-esque" but it's just not pleasing to the eye. I have to stop watching every single video at some point.
Downpour was a complete mess. Everything was terrible. The story however, is really solid and not boring at all. But idk if the monsters are representing something to Murphy just like old SH games where the protagonist’s fears shape his word and reincarnate in monsters form
I do really love your channel and all your finest work that you do with the investigation and so, but, I think that you're forcing this game to fit into the standards of the first four games and it's ok, we all know that this was the first SH that you have played, but, well, the story is something that we have already seen on SH2 speaking about the karma thing of the town but also, well, those creatures of Downpour are so basics that, it's not possible to save this game more than you have already done on previous videos. But still loving the GM channel! Great job.
I must say that I was always agreed with the idea of the poor design of the monster, was not weak, since the context of the game ask for a coherence context. It is a shame that Downpour is underrated.
I want a new silent hill so bad. I redownload this game about a month ago and played for about 15 mins and put it right back down like I did the 1st time.🤦🏾♂️
Do you ?, we already have 1, 2 and 3 and no western dev is every going to capture the lighting in the bottle that was Team Silent more to the point the series should of ended with 4 there's no new ground to cover that's way all the western games where just a rehash of 2 also doesn't help the people behind the later games had zero clue about the lore and someone hated the voice acting in 2.
@@robmorris4056 I've replayed the original 4 to death. I'm surprised my PS1 original disk still works🤷🏾♂️. I'll keep holding my breath like everybody else 🤦🏾♂️
Downpour runs terribly, has bad level and character design, and seems to only be interested in emulating silent hill as a « guilt filled psych horror » thing. It fails in every respect at all these things because it seems there wasn’t enough research before they even started going, they took 2 as a template and that’s not how it works. The screamer is just a videogamey woman who shouts. You can’t see anything else. That’s it.
I really like all your videos... but you give way too much credit to downpour. To me it was an utter failure. On the other hand, if this game got you into the other silent hill games, then I guess it's not that bad lol
The REAL porblem is that for all the "inspiration" taken from Barker, there is NOTHING unique about them. They are literally just humans with small adjustments to make them seem scary (the forced open eyes and the mouths of the screamers) that offer nothing to make them stand out from what we've seen in the generation this game came from. The reasoning behind the Screamer is one of the biggest problems I've had with this teams monster design. It's a screaming woman who may be "represented" by Murphy's wife Carol, whom we hear next to noting about, and origins of the name Carol is the biggest reach I think I've ever heard ever before. The Doll is in a similar problem, it's literally just a facsimilie of a woman, nothing else. It's the Remnant from Origins with a solidfied form and greater speed. It looks like Abhora from Dragula. There's nothing interesting at all here. They are in fact weak and terrible. Also, you forgot the Weeping Bat, but that's fine because this was a waste of time.
Yes, the monsters in DOWNPOUR are definitely poorly designed. The only thing more poorly designed than the monsters, is the entire game itself. Silent Hill Downpour is landfill trash😆
Well the answer for that is quite simple: Yes. I don't like how this channel tries to redeem bad post-Team Silent games lately. First you claim that there's no "Team Silent", then this. I don't understand, if something is bad, it is bad. There is no need to sugarcoat it.
It's not just that they're humanoid, it's that they have clearly identifiable facial features. Makes them less alien than the amalgamations of flesh that you see with most SH 1-3 monsters. Honestly, they look more like Outlast enemies than SH enemies. And even the more interested one lack the physical abstraction that define the best of the series. They're too literal in concept: human body melded and impaled with metal, face stretched out via hooks, guy with a cinderblock hammer and a gas mask ect. Meanwhile I don't even know how to begin to describe something like the Closer or Pendulum in SH3.
They're not terrible design across the board, but overall it's one of the weakest rogues gallery in the series.
Not even just that, there can be good humanoid SH characters, but I feel like this game didn't take enough advantage of the uncanny valley with it where it rlly should have.
This is going to be very mean, so apologies to any Downpour diehards. Everything is subjective. To each their own.
But Clive Barker was mentioned as an inspiration for Downpour's enemies. I have to say, both Clive Barker's _Undying_ and _Jericho_ games had more gruesome and intriguing monster designs. I'm sorry, Downpour. But in my opinion, you failed even at taking inspiration from another creator.
@@MadamFoogie There's nothing mean about that at all. No need to apologize for having an opinion. Be confident!
@@snorpy I am confident. But I'm also saying that _Clive Barker's Jericho,_ a critically panned game, is superior to _Silent Hill Downpour._ Maybe I'm just apologizing to myself. Because I've essentially taken a blood pact to fully experience every Silent Hill title to exhaustion. I'm so sad that this one turned out to be such a waste of time. There are things I really wanted to enjoy, little niggling things that sort of kept me going. But it almost feels like the game is intentionally trying to piss me off.
At least it's better than _Homecoming._ Oh, and the secret Surprise ending was pretty cute.
@@MadamFoogie Fair.
I always found it fascinating that the screamers were always in police cars. Murphy associates police cars--the sirens really--with his wife's scream of grief and torment. No doubt the PTSD is still there and he still feels like the cops are chasing him, like they did on his cross state police chase.
Also, if a Screamer isn't aware of you, it'll sorta rock back and forth like one does while holding a small child.
I think the monsters felt less Silent-Hilly because they had eyes. All or most of the original monsters had no eyes and that plus their body contortion feels like iconic Silent Hill monster design.
I had a strange glitch with this game, when outside in the town the enemies would just approach my character and then just stand at a distance. It actually made the game really creepy. Downpour was a good horror game on its own merit.
There's one very bad glitch where Weeping Bats continue to spawn and crash the game. Which is scary in it's own right.
Well it's was definitely a better survival and or horror game than Resident Evil 8. Capcom is slipping back into action to try and get more sales from cowards that are too scared of their HORROR games lol
Agreed. I always thought people gave it too much guff.
I don’t think that was a glitch but an intended feature. Had a lot of those prison monsters stalk me and back up into the fog. Would’ve made it terrifying if they were designed like Silent Hill monstrosities and not twitchy humanoids
I've had that happen as well. I'm thinking thinking may not be a glitch. Super weird though. Lol
I haven't finished the game but I don't dislike using humanoid figures; they needed a bit more variety or possibly change over time. The further in you play, the more deformed they become
I guess shattered memories kind of scratches that itch, though the way that they are implemented is wildly different from the main series and there's really only the one enemy type that never changes mechanically
I think the main problem with the enemy design and by extension the vibe of the games after 4, is that they're missing the abstract quality that was so prevalent in those earlier titles. Those games had a weird dreamlike atmosphere that is just completely absent in the later games. The enemies of 2 & 3 look they jumped straight out of a Francis Bacon painting with obscured features and the eery suggestions of mouths and lips. You were never quite sure what you were looking at.
The same can be said about the nurses from SH2 but what made them iconic is their movement. The problem is not the design, it is the movement that's genetic
i think for the prisoners that may be true, but movement wise both the doll and the screamer have unique animations and movement styles that definitely add to their character.
plus, the nurses outline was still very unique, titled head, distorted baby face, the skirt and the pipe held in limp arms... you could pick out that sillouhette for sure.
@@thegamingmuse .. Hi would you please consider reviewing the 'Dementium' DS-game series? It was literally meant and MADE in the image of silent hill with ALL that other game's horror, Mirroring SH, But they merely made their own game in the end with a different-title and ALL the difficulty of a true silent-hill game.
I really, Really ask that you take that game into consideration, As it's WHAT would have been if konami had green-lit 'Silent Hill-DS'
@@DavidpuzzlerU9738
The Ward is the only good one, number two felt unnecessary
For me, all of these monsters, in fact the entire game, make more sense if it's all taken from Anne's perspective. I know there is no evidence to really support my theory, but I still feel Downpours original concept was to be Anne's Story, not something relegated to an ill fated DLC and the best Silent Hill comic series to date.
Well, originally it was supposed to be co-op with Murphy and Anne working together (or at the very least that there would be segments where Anne is playable). A cancelled game focused on a police officer who was involved in a shooting and having to deal with the psychological ramifications of that.
Not gonna lie, a carnival themed prison full of prisoner clowns & other bizarre cenobite like creatures & ghosts ala The Suffering set in an abandoned town could make for quite an interesting horror game.
The answer is yes, they're poorly designed. Or at the very least, uninspired. Lots of old Silent Hill monsters were humanoid while still being unique, but these completely miss the mark.
wrong
Fun fact about the prisoner:
There’s a subtype called the stabber who has a large sharp blade stabbed into his hand. His hand now swollen and red.
This subtype very rarely seen though.
It will never cease to amaze me that so many years on, there are still interesting tidbits to be gleaned from the Silent Hill series. While I'll always hope for more, a part of me has accepted that the series's time has, sadly, been allowed to pass by a greedy publisher.
This particular episode reminds me to ask, Muse, if you've considered doing a detailed breakdown like this for the Fatal Frame series. The ghosts and the lore surrounding the rituals is so uniquely Japanese, that I'm really wondering how much might have been lost in translation. Sadly, Fatal Frame, despite the remaster of the Maiden of Black Water, also seems to have faded with Silent Hill into the great horror games that were.
The problem is the facial features, eyes noses etc makes them look more human than previous SH game monsters did. The symbolism wasn't lazily done, it was on par with previous games...but fighting the Screamers and Prisoner/brawlers/juggernaughts felt pretty much the same as fighting the cult members in Homecoming which people didn't like
I always saw the monsters being human like because Murphy lost his son to another human being, and in general, a lot of his trauma come from inflicting or witnessing harm to those around him
Many Silent Hill games have dog creatures. They could have easily came up with a grotesque dog to symbolize violent police K-9's.
Seriously!!! I'm so upset that they didn't use police enemies _at all._
Imagine replacing the weird angry red ball chase segments with that. The sounds of police ordering for you to halt, and ravenously barking K-9's right on your heels, their flashlights getting brighter and more intense, obscuring the player's vision. Instead of sucking the life out of McMurphy, the mass of unseen officers could even start opening fire.
It would make so much more thematic sense-- I'm still totally baffled by the screaming sucky void thing.
@@MadamFoogie That sounds like a really cool idea, I can definitely picture how much better that would have been.
I like the various dog monsters of Silent Hill but I feel like "evil police dog" is a little too obvious.
I thought they were so boring and generic. The old SH monsters are iconic, you won’t find anything like them anywhere else. Downpour’s creatures just looked like members of Slipknot LOL
I get what they were going for w/ a lot of these designs but I feel they're a little too on the nose. They kinda remind me of the monsters in The Suffering (which makes some sense due to the similar subject matter) but less exciting. I think what makes most of them fall flat is probably the way the combat works in the game tbh. The game expecting you to block these creatures strikes makes them less threatening and running away from them is harder than in past games due to the way their ai works. Enemies like the weeping bat will do this annoying in and out thing and then your weapon can also break. Its just really easy to get frustrated fighting the monsters and that makes it pretty hard to be scared of them.
There's also the missed opportunities with the boogeyman and the void thing that chases you. imo the void shouldn't have been in the game and the boogeyman should have chased you during those sections to build a better through line and make him more intimidating. He probably also shouldn't have just been a big guy in a gas mask. They're are scarier pro wrestlers. A better design there really could have done a lot for the game.
I do think Downpour has some really good ideas. I loved the open world town and thought the side quests were pretty great. I don't think the game is completely without merit like some do but I do feel like its creature design is a letdown. Cool you got something out of them though because at the end of the day that just means you got to have a better time with the game.
I think downpour would have benefited greatly by having a few animal monsters. Maybe something similar to the dogs and hell kites from silent hill 1.
The designs aren't terrible, they just don't suit Silent Hill monsters. Silent Hill monsters tend to incorporate human elements with inhumane movements and twisted anatomies. The monsters in Downpour just looks like demonic humans. It wouldn't be a problem in most other video games of the genre, but in Silent Hill they don't fit.
Might have been too one-dimensional with the monster designs. They seems very single-issue - for lack of a better word. When actually, it seems like they'd benefit from meshing a combination of issues together. Take the sex doll - ok, bloke gets locked up, frustration, etc - but we've sort of done this over and over again. You've got to do more than 'you, however, are maidenless' to sell that as being relevant to the MC. You could totally do some cross over on various themes betwee, for example, incarceration and sexuality, that could be warped into something more than 'all holes are for dick/screaming' symbolism.
In Anne's Story, the Dolls relate to how Anne sees herself for cheating on her husband in her quest for revenge on Murphy. In Murphy's case, it's how focusing on distractions (the Shadows) get you nowhere. And hey, sexual frustration is a theme in every Silent Hill game except the original.
The Doll creature with it's shadow was freaky!😳
I'm not a huge fan of Downpour, but I loved the concept and execution of the Doll enemy. The misdirection, the attack from the creature's shadow. It's very Jungian.
Your channel is the only redeeming part of the SH community. Glad you take deeper looks at things vs what the rest of the community does (trying to see SH2 in everything and act like everything is a ripoff of 2 as if it’s the only game/lore that matters to them).
somehow, i hadn't registered the fact the monsters you see the most often have a very similar, humanoid silhouette. there's no immediate visceral "what the fuck is THAT?" when you first see each type, and because you don't get to really linger on them because you're too busy trying not to die, you don't get to appreciate the details of the design. the doll is probably my favorite because of the twist in how you fight them, but even those just register as unnerving when you first see them.
i have two "gold standards" for silent hill monster intros: the mannequins in sh2 and the twin victims in sh4. the first is a more standard jump scare, but it's very effective. and the twins are just unbelievably horrifying--it's the top half of a person, sort of, and it's POINTING AT YOU. and then it just RUNS AT YOU. downpour was really lacking in that memorable entrance department. i mean i guess the bat things were freaky at first, but after awhile they were more annoying than creepy.
tl;dr: the monster designs in downpour were cool but didn't work with the way the game itself was designed.
My first time through 4 my friend was playing and ran RIGHT UP to the twins the first time, thinking they were a statue.
@@LyndsayW1194 oh noooooo you must've nearly had a heart attack over that one!
@@ravenofroses 2 heart attacks lol, my friend had one with me. Cant decide which was worse, that or seeing henry covered in blood outside the front door
@@LyndsayW1194 lmao oh NOOOOO. i always wanted to get that haunting.
@@ravenofroses i think it was from the haunted doll item, but i cant remember lol. It has been quite some time since i played 4
I loved the exploration in Downpour and the soundtrack during those explorations were good enough to make you feel creeped out or melancholic. But that's about it. The story wasn't very good and it surprised me that some of the side quests were more interesting than the main one. I don't think the problem with the creatures were because the town was too big for just 2 types of monsters. The problem with the creatures is that they were so uninspired... They looked like designs Clive Barker discarded... In previous games the monsters were so unique and interesting looking. In Downpour, like someone said, they looked like Slipknot band members. I also find it shocking that they did not created a monster based on prison r*pe fear... There's a small hint in one of the puzzles but that's it. Or some sort of monster based on Napier mangled corpse, that could show up when the rain start and chase the player. I don't hate Downpour, I just think the people that made it, wasn't very creative... I mean, I think Homecoming is abhorrent in several ways (I got the UFO ending in my first playthrough) but at least the monsters design was very interesting (apart from the Order guys, the dogs and the nurses)...
The concept arts looks very good for a Silent Hill game, probably to manhunt would suit better, though.
Good video, Muse.
I would love to see a crossover of both franchises
I imagine Valiant Video Enterprises and Starkweather wanting to set a snuff film in Silent Hill
Totally agree. Can't tap into the uncanny valley when your main monsters just look like normal people with a bit of horror make up. It's not disturbing. It's just generic stuff we've seen everywhere else. Just a goofy ghost train, presented by normalised NPCs who just sound like normal people speaking cryptically. Always been a fan of SH, but Downpour was unsubtle, blatant and as a result, hamfisted. You could identify and rationalise everything to the point it stopped being scary, and instead turned into some campfire ghost story experience, complete with someone saying "WooooOOOOOooooo" during the supposedly frightening moments. It looked pretty, but it felt pathetic and really hailed the bottom of a downward slope SH had been descending into since leaving the hands of Team Silent.
It was just some game.
I enjoyed the game, as broken it was. But I still think the monster designs were weak and not as creative. Maybe if it was for another game it would be alright but not for Silent Hill.
Absolutely amazing work on a game that I think gets too much hate. I might be somewhat biased, as this was my first game in the series. After this I hunted down all the best. Fell in love with SH1, SH2, SH3 and Shattered memories. Tbh I love all of them in my own way tho. ( except book of memories. Wasn't a fan of that one.)
One question tho if you wouldn't mind. What about the weeping bats? What do they represent? I believe their the most unsettling base creature in the game imo.
They are heavily tied into JP Sater's story and I'll be covering them in detail with him, as they relate to the events in his past.
@thegamingmuse Ooo. I am very intrigued . Thank you for the response and I shall be very interested in that video as well!
Same. My first SH game too that got me into the series. We might just be bias lol. Im glad though because I definitely enjoyed it for what it was because I didnt have the other to compare it to yet.
I love the open world of downpour, but it still missong something.
Something I notice is that each monster seems to come from a different area in the game. For example, the Screamers arsene crawling out of the ground in the monastery, where there's a huge crack and growls can be heard from within. Obviously, the bats are from the cave and the dolls are emphasized in the centenial building.
The concept art for those creatures is so much better than what we saw in play. So much wasted potential with this game, it's begging for a fan overhaul mod.
to some extent i wonder if time or inexperience w modeling software limited what they were doing? the screamers original face was so much wider in the mouth... still, its clear there were solid ideas here that werent fully realized.
hey.. yugioh and silenthill are under the same company konami or what we yugioh players use to call it komoney
Another great video! I`d love to see Downpour get a remaster, if they could fix the glitches and stuttering frame-rate it would be much more worth it. I wounder could they add back the "Trainman" boss? It looked pretty unique!
Very interesting as ever. Would love to see more Barker-influence on SH highlighted sometime
I personally kinda feel as though the team might've missed out regarding utilizing the more outdoors elements of the game's world. Thinking back, a lot of Silent Hill games up to Downpour were concentrated on the "urban" aspects of the setting, in hospitals, bars, the mall, theaters, etc., but didn't really focus on the natural world and the horrors that lie in it. One thing that might've been interesting to show could have been the natural world feeling like it's own particular prison to Murphy and Ann, ironic given nature's symbolic connection to concepts like freedom, which Silent Hill as a setting is very strong at corrupting and twisting around. Decaying forests, swarms of carrion or maggots, pupae that birth grotesque monstrosities reminiscent of animals and pests found in prison like moths, rats, termites, roaches or the like.
I thought the monsters were bland too, they looked really uninspired and generic. But I haven't thought of it that way until you mentioned it, but Downpour does have some very interesting monsters like the wheelchair man, but the majority of our experiences will have been dealing with two humanoid monsters, the Screamer and Prisoner (which is compounded by such a large map, however the Screamer was put to good use in the Telltale Heart sidequest).
And why haven't I made that connection before with Murphy's wife's name "Carol" with the "Screamer"? Thats such an interesting insight into how their relationship must have devolved after their son's death.
It was interesting to hear you say in the previous video that this was your first Silent Hill game, yet you know so much more than me (and most fans!).
Anyways, I'm glad to see you giving some love to Silent Hill: Downpour this month for its 10th anniversary :)
I'm still watching the video, but iirc Barker was only _kinda_ the mind behind Pinhead. From what I'd heard, in the OG book he was a naked, female-appearing Cenobite, known as the Priest.
I mention it more as a note than as a criticism, though. (And I'm obviously out of my depth here 😅)
that is one of the few Barker books I havent read surprisingly, so you could be right, though I imagine as director he had some influence on makeup in the film.
As the mind behind "The Hellbound Heart" (the original story the film is based on) and the director of Hellraiser, most of the character's design as a Cenobite leader and its visual design come from Barker himself.
You're right that the name "Pinhead" doesn't come from Barker though - the character is unnamed in the original film and goes by "The Priest," "Hell Priest" or "the Cold Man" in various Barker-penned books and stories. The name "Pinhead" came from the crew who worked on Hellraiser, and Barker himself pretty much hates the name and never uses it.
Interesting look at and I think the monsters are how they should be once you’re deep within the layers of the game
love some of these designs, even the humanoid ones, and i love learning about the newer silent hills with this channel ::)
After finishing the game, I thought the reason the dolls weren't visible were because they Anne's monsters. Just like how Murphy can't see that he himself is a Boogeyman to her, likewise he also can't fully see the other monsters her traumas have conjured in Silent Hill.
All I am is reminded of The Suffering when I see the common monsters in this one (the other survival horror game before this set in a prison). Even Homecoming had more traditional looking "abstract" monster design (even though one is just a Lying Figure ripoff)
The doll reminded me of Priss from Blade Runner personally. As usual, excellent video!
the doll was also called Barbie by fans before her name was revealed
Currently playing this after sh4, it feels fresh and new, just wish it wasnt rushed when it comes to performance. And yes i think the open area design hurt how encounters work, the smaller areas have good moments and build up for encounters, the first weeping bat was a good one.
Your analysis is probably more deeper than the dev team ever intended…
Both I think. I believe that's what most of the monster's designers intended but wanted to add more but couldn't due to either not enough time or staff to speed up the process as most of these good games have much content that didn't make the cut
I fought those monsters so many times that I did not lose sight of their freaky detail.
The thing about Downpour's enemies, is they were more annoying than scary. Specifically the "screemer," the whole stunning you in place just was annoying. Their range was too long. Same thing with the bat creatures (not mentioned in the video), they would throw one punch, run away or just hang the ceiling away from you so you couldn't attack them.
The designs were passable, but their combat was just too annoying. (Eliminating any scare factor they might have.)
You can say the same thing about SH1, but the radio built suspension for each enemy you faced.
In downpour, you just start to stager, when an enemy starts pounding you. It is very much like a game.
There were two parts in this game that gave me a pause and a bit of the creeps: both the times you can't fight back. The miners in the train ride and the part in the prison. Other than that, it wasn't scary at all
With all its flaws it's still the best western made Silent Hill. I really like this game.
I do remember feeling like I was just fighting slightly tortured homeless people. Or rather, running from them, since combat is rather terrible.
The most memorable thing about the screamer and Prisoner for me is how they seem to animation-cancel into another attack when you block them. Murphy just gets pummeled.
I wish you talked more about the Boogeyman here. I absolutely adore it, both in terms of design and symbolism. Absolutely baffling that people treat it like a reheated pyramid head (especially when we already have another Silent Hill game which LITERALLY reheated Pyramid Head.)
Ya missed a monster. The one that crawls on the ceilings and walls
I personally believe time constraints and the fact that this was the team's only other game they made before they had to declare bankruptcy. Konami really didn't give them any sort of hand at all especially because they were also trying to sell the HD collection around that time and also have it out when the movie was coming out.
In short I blame Konami
I’ve enjoyed all the main silent hill games, don’t know why homecoming and downpour get some much hate
Why have the more important details be small when the camera literally bounces around 6-10 feet behind the player character.
Its like watching tv in the house across the street.
Most of them look like slasher villains. Not really a complaint, but 2 enemies look like a reskinned version of another.
There was so much good stuff in Downpour, and I always thought the monster design was one of the better aspects of it. I love how you're able to dig into the details and give the fuller picture. This video has me giving serious thought to unearthing my poor old PS3 and giving it another playthrough. (Maybe once I finish with Alan Wake.)
Would it be worth the gameplay tho? I've never tried it
@@fartquaviasdingle7876 I enjoyed it well enough. It doesn't work on the same level as the original Team Silent titles but it had its own vibe that I like for what it is.
I NEEDED THIS VIDEO. Thnx man.
I'm like YES but I can't wait to watch this video!!
I lowkey loved the Doll and their shadows actually
As someone who really loves Downpour, I find the focus on humanoids fascinating. Every creature is a "person", something to feel fear and/or disgust towards. Regret and remorse even, perhaps. A "bogeyman" of its own, if you'll allow me the dumb joke.
I'm not sure why they didn't create more monsters, though I'm more willing to hedge my bets with "limited time to work" more than anything else.
If I had to pick a real flaw, I guess I'd have to go with "it's less of a dream-logic nightmare and more of a reality-logic nightmare". The Weeping Bats are as abstractly nightmarish as you get with "normal" enemies, and they still more or less resemble the other monsters in silhouette. The monsters here are essentially people you'd pull your kid away from/closer to you if you encountered them on the street. People to judge first and reconsider later.
I think at the very least, a traditional dog enemy would have benefited Downpour greatly, if they could have only added one more enemy. Break up everything else a little more.
Outside of that...hmm...it's a bit hard to keep in-theme with the prison aesthetics, admittedly. For me, at least. But thinking back to other games, there's usually two or three types of aesthetics, right? People to fear, phobias, interests/obsessions, monsters born from books and plays...
Maybe some water-based monsters, and things that pull from what Murphy's son liked/disliked, if not from Murphy himself. I think that woulda helped the vibes.
I wish the dev team could have gotten a second chance. I would have loved to see what they'd do if they could try again.
I always thought the Bogeyman looked cool, but beyond that, he wasn't a very compelling "monster" design. But watching this video and examining the Bogeyman under the lens of this perspective... His design ends up feeling far more menacing. Even the most horrible, violent, and dangerous monsters of Silent Hill show some deformities, injuries, or are otherwise suffering in some way. The Bogeyman? He looks quite tidy and well kept, with not a single irregularity or peculiarity spotted from his trench coat.
The Bogeyman represents anyone's most hated enemy, like an evil scapegoat. When people are at their most angry and most hateful, they're likely to view whoever ruined their lives as someone who hasn't suffered enough, and needs to feel the pain they have felt. Hell, even his movements are calm and human, compared to the erratic twitching or tired fumbling of other Silent Hill monsters. In the eyes of others, the Bogeyman never suffered, and only exists *to make others suffer.*
The designs were great but the execution wasnt the best
They lack creativity. They aren’t anything like the og silent hill monsters. These are monsters sure but they aren’t the deformed, unidentifiable Monsters we know and love
I certainly wasn't a fan of the monster designs. The doll is just about the only one I like, and that's just because of the caved-in mouth. To me, all the female characters seemed to represent sexual or bodily assault. And all the males were just other prisoners. They could have done so much more. I'm honestly shocked that there were no police officer flavored monsters, because that would have been a much better pursuing enemy. Way better than that angry glowing red ball-- like, what even _WAS_ that thing!? Stupid, lazy, and more annoying than disturbing. That's what.
Also, I utterly despised that roaming cop car. It was nothing but tedious, so I solved the dispatcher puzzle as soon as I walked into the room. Not legitimately, I just brute-forced the codes, which was actually pretty easy. I never once felt intimidated by Downpour's enemies, and I would often mess with their feeble programming by luring them to get stuck on fences.
And don't even get me started on the grossly derivative Boogeyman. Bleh.
Even Homecoming had good monster designs. I liked this game but the monsters (save the weeping bat) were bad
Yes, Downpour's monsters are the worst in the series. The huge problem is that they're too human and too recognizable! Take Abstract Daddy from Silent Hill 2 or Siam from Silent Hill Homecoming: they are deformed figures with no facial traits. The series is about body horror and grotesque designs, while in Downpour you basically deal with creepy Halloween costumes. Even the best one, the Doll, is too "familiar" and feels out of place. Wheelman, on the other hand, is a great design and it makes me wonder if the last part of the game was developed by a different team (because it's way better than the rest).
You could argue that since they aren't designed to fit in with the game that the team were making then yes they are badly designed. It also feels disappointing that they looked outside to other media (like Clive Barker's) work for inspiration into the design. The monsters in SH2 and 3 had so much more detail and were totally unique.
those game monsters were also very very much influenced by outside media, thats just art design. Masahiro Ito named Alien as one of his own inspirations, and several monsters were inspired by Jacobs Ladder.
The Closer from SH3 was also inspired by Francis Bacon's drawing "Second Version of Triptych". A large majority of the monsters from SH2-3 took inspiration from other media, since that's how most artists create their art. They become molded by the influences of other artists or the natural world, and use that inspiration to create their own works.
@@AusVtuber totally right.
The whole house art style for the series borrows heavily from Bacon.
It's entirely legitimate for them to use external sources as references.
I suspect that the old version of the screamers was inspired by the same images of soldiers who'd been given rudimentary plastic surgery to reconstruct their faces following head injuries as were referenced to design the splicers in BioShock and the similarity could have been part of the motivation to alter it.
Artists use references and modify them constantly in all media because creativity isn't some ephemeral thing that you pluck out of the aether, it's part of how we process and understand the world around us on an emotional level.
Dude, they ripped off _everybody_ for the monsters in the previous Silent Hill games. Hell the fog is directly inspired/ripped off by/from "The Mist"
Yeah they were too humanoid or monster you would find from any typical western horror film. Even silent hill 4 had some really freaky creature designs.
They did continue working on silent hill after Downpour unfortunately, and we got Book of Memories 😂
They actually came out at the same time, within weeks of each other, and honestly I don't see BoM as a main line title, it's a weird spinoff and is best enjoyed as such.
@thegamingmuse I wouldn't really call like 7 months apart within weeks of eachother lol
Book of Memories is still better than Downpour imo.
3:20 Yeah it's Ash Katchem from Digimon. DUH!!
Who's that Cardcaptor?
It's Vegeta!
Hello Muse. I need to ask you two short questions if you don't mind. It's really quick and they are worth it.
go for it!
@@thegamingmuse sorry for the late answer. So, what I wanted to ask you, is if you ever analysed books, and if you've got Wattpad ?
@@thegamingmuse I lost my chance, didn't I ? Well, I still love you and your channel regardless.
Once again what turned people off were the mechanics. If the fighting were fixed and frame rate nothing would be wrong.
Without watching this video I can answer this question. "Absolutely no"
Before I start.. yes
Yeah kinda
I'ma say it: Downpour is the shit.
yes
Clive Barker's style has it merits, but Silent Hill was built on Masahiro Ito's.
One should not try to fix what isn't broken, and especially not using noticably different parts.
Japanese devs taking inspp from incredibly abstract horror paintings, while americans ofc gotta take inspo from mainstream dogwater stuff
The Japanese devs also took inspiration from Clive Barker for basically everything from the monsters to the Otherworld, and he is most certainly not mainstream 'dogwater' stuff. His work is legendary, and I don't just mean Hellraiser, his books are all best sellers and the most haunting things I've ever read.
@@thegamingmuse i failed to express myself, what i meant is that american devs just used mainstream monsters as inspiration, people are used to see them and know them already , so they look less scary and weird, while team silent got inspired by mosters design that are way less know and much more abstract so they look much scarier
Yes
I would enjoy these videos so much more without the terrible noise filter and low-res footage quality.
I mean, I get that "it's Silent Hill-esque" but it's just not pleasing to the eye. I have to stop watching every single video at some point.
Downpour was a complete mess. Everything was terrible. The story however, is really solid and not boring at all. But idk if the monsters are representing something to Murphy just like old SH games where the protagonist’s fears shape his word and reincarnate in monsters form
I do really love your channel and all your finest work that you do with the investigation and so, but, I think that you're forcing this game to fit into the standards of the first four games and it's ok, we all know that this was the first SH that you have played, but, well, the story is something that we have already seen on SH2 speaking about the karma thing of the town but also, well, those creatures of Downpour are so basics that, it's not possible to save this game more than you have already done on previous videos. But still loving the GM channel! Great job.
Downpour was not my first, I played 2 and 3 before, but I liked Downpour better and I still do.
It was a good game just not a good Silent Hill
I must say that I was always agreed with the idea of the poor design of the monster, was not weak, since the context of the game ask for a coherence context. It is a shame that Downpour is underrated.
Silent Hill is great❤️. This game isn't 🙃
I want a new silent hill so bad. I redownload this game about a month ago and played for about 15 mins and put it right back down like I did the 1st time.🤦🏾♂️
Do you ?, we already have 1, 2 and 3 and no western dev is every going to capture the lighting in the bottle that was Team Silent more to the point the series should of ended with 4 there's no new ground to cover that's way all the western games where just a rehash of 2 also doesn't help the people behind the later games had zero clue about the lore and someone hated the voice acting in 2.
@@robmorris4056 I've replayed the original 4 to death. I'm surprised my PS1 original disk still works🤷🏾♂️. I'll keep holding my breath like everybody else 🤦🏾♂️
Well if we had say a thing to compare them to like you no Team Silent's monster then yes there poorly designed, as there inferior in every way.
Downpour runs terribly, has bad level and character design, and seems to only be interested in emulating silent hill as a « guilt filled psych horror » thing. It fails in every respect at all these things because it seems there wasn’t enough research before they even started going, they took 2 as a template and that’s not how it works. The screamer is just a videogamey woman who shouts. You can’t see anything else. That’s it.
I really like all your videos... but you give way too much credit to downpour. To me it was an utter failure. On the other hand, if this game got you into the other silent hill games, then I guess it's not that bad lol
if it didnt work for you, thats fine. enjoyment is subjective, and I adore this game, so I think I give it just the right amount of credit. ;D
The REAL porblem is that for all the "inspiration" taken from Barker, there is NOTHING unique about them. They are literally just humans with small adjustments to make them seem scary (the forced open eyes and the mouths of the screamers) that offer nothing to make them stand out from what we've seen in the generation this game came from.
The reasoning behind the Screamer is one of the biggest problems I've had with this teams monster design. It's a screaming woman who may be "represented" by Murphy's wife Carol, whom we hear next to noting about, and origins of the name Carol is the biggest reach I think I've ever heard ever before.
The Doll is in a similar problem, it's literally just a facsimilie of a woman, nothing else. It's the Remnant from Origins with a solidfied form and greater speed. It looks like Abhora from Dragula.
There's nothing interesting at all here. They are in fact weak and terrible.
Also, you forgot the Weeping Bat, but that's fine because this was a waste of time.
The whole franchise went to shit after Silent Hill 4.
Yes, the monsters in DOWNPOUR are definitely poorly designed. The only thing more poorly designed than the monsters, is the entire game itself. Silent Hill Downpour is landfill trash😆
Well the answer for that is quite simple: Yes. I don't like how this channel tries to redeem bad post-Team Silent games lately. First you claim that there's no "Team Silent", then this. I don't understand, if something is bad, it is bad. There is no need to sugarcoat it.
Bad is subjective, and personally I disagree with you about what is bad. Nothing wrong with that, but if you dont like it, you dont have to watch.