OTHER DETACHMENT REVIEWS HERE: First Company - th-cam.com/video/RQiNWV3KtIM/w-d-xo.html Firestorm Assault Force - th-cam.com/video/pKJ52r41KPw/w-d-xo.html Anvil Siege Force - th-cam.com/video/PcSZrQBgIh4/w-d-xo.html Ironstorm Spearhead - th-cam.com/video/eoC1U3h6W_s/w-d-xo.html
Precision Stratagem is absolutely worth it if you have a captain in a melee squad. The amount of leaders i have assassinated with it as a free strat is insane
This is unironically one of the best detachments for Terminators since you can give them infiltrate on your opponents line, and then have a captain give them precision for free on turn 1.
I think my fave infiltration unit is 6x bladeguard, Marneus Calgar and a Leutennant. The LT carries the enhancement and brings lethal hits, Marneus just hits like a truck with his buddies and gives advance and charge. Bladeguard gonna bladeguard. This is probably my favourite detachment just for silly shit.
Ran into this detachment yesterday vs Dark Angels, the range shooting debuff really hurt, Centurion Devastators were his star unit. I made a tactical mistake, couple really game end close in a loss for me (Ultramarines) 76-71 . For 3 rounds I got secondaries that were impossible to achieve. I like this detachment lots of good stuff. I’m gonna use it against Necrons next week.
I was just thinking about a Raven Guard themed list this morning. Blessed be the Auspex. Edit: Feel bad for Reivers, here’s an entire detachment you’d think would be right for em, but even here, there’s better things to spend points on.
@@basteala525I concur. Battleshock needs to be a tangible threat to unit performance beyond the OC and Strat debuff, or make terror troops have a distinct advantage when using BS. They should have a suite of unique advantages vs a battle shocked unit.
@@ShahbazBokhari I feel like a way way to make battleshock more impactful could be turning of most of the single role defining special rules units have (where it makes sense)..
I played this detachment last night. Guerilla tactics was powerful. Kiting Lych guard to one side of the board and then just disappearing, to come back in, as reserves was strong enough but then shooting and moving on to the obj with eliminators in the same turn was chef's kiss. With Klaven, you could have 3 units in total, per turn, redeploying.
execute and redeploy is great on a phobos captain + eliminators, keep them safe, free strike from the shadows every turn, and no longer need to sacrifice a rifle for the carbine.
@@chimeraelite unfortunately no. You’d have to run him as a terminator captain with lightning claws. Although it’s actually pretty close to his 9e stats.
I enjoyed their old rules (ravenguard successor with stealth and Whirlwind of Rage) I'm glad this Detachment kept some of my favorite tricks from the last codex (a deadly prize Paired with incursors with a mine and master of ambush). Shame the tyberos rules got legendsed that +1 strength aura really helped the army punch above its weight.
My codex just arrived today :D can't wait to try this one, I wish it had better synergy with Shrike, but at least he has phobos keyword now, so can move 6' if calculated feint is used on his unit. Btw the phobos captain redeploys up to 3 phobos units.. invictor has the phobos keyword in this edition and scout 8' XD
Devastator Centurions are very good in this Detachment. With the Stratagem, they natively reroll 1s and hit on 2+ and then put 6 twin-linked AP-4 lascannons into something, + all the extra shots from the breast launchers (which are pretty good). You can negate their bad mobility by putting them back into reserves every turn. Speaking of which, if you take Uriel Ventris and give a unit the "Deep Strike" ability, you can deepstrike that unit every turn wherever you want when putting them back into reserves.
The biggest problem is phobos armies are quite "meh" when it comes to actually fighting. S4 guns and melee across the board. Eliminators should come in more than 3. Scout snipers just disappeared, sgt tigerius and the S9 rocket launchers with them. They have next to no anti tank or monster capability beyond some las fusils. Sure, the invictor has an S14 fist. Good luck getting him close enough before he dies with his low toughness compared to a dread. They are support units. Not the building blocks for an army. And this is from a raven guard lover and someone who sold themselves on trying to make a phobos heavy list since 10th rolled out.
You’ve got to bring in a lot of units alongside your Phobos units. I’ve been playing a list that is majority Phobos, but I’ve got 2 or 3 units that are in standard power armor and a lot of vehicles. I think that it is still thematic for your vanguard units to keep eyes on enemies as your heavy hitting units roll in (it’s literally what Incursors are designed to do in lore)
@@Sanctjud There is no beauty just wasted opportunity to get reivers in particular to matter, and gimmicks over lethality for phobos and scouts doesn't really describe raven guard well. It why every else other than RG bois are gushing particularly DW,SW,and DA fans.
@@tastefulavenger the problem ultimately stems from divergent chapters being able to take compliant detatchments. Blow that up and then everything would be fine. It’s mostly people salivating at undercutting the balance of hard hitting units that only they get needing time to get in combat. I hate when people blatantly exploit something that was clearly never meant for them, often to the harm of others who don’t play that way when the detatchment could eventually get nerfed
You forgot to mention that Shrike with a squad of VVets can Rapid Ingress just outside of 12” meaning they’re safe from the shooting and charge phase. In this way to you can essentially assassinate any character or take out a good chunk of infantry
Was considering running Deathwatch with this detachment. Would make for some fun shenanigans with delivering units right onto the enemies door step that needed to be there.
I feel you missed a mention of Reivers. While they have been maligned, they are 85 points to get a unit of Phobos with the deep strike key word with Grav-Chutes. This is helpful when using their back to reserves as now they can just come back down anywhere. If you want to give them a phobos lieutenant, give them the standard one, not the reiver one and now they can deep strike around the board, put their backs to a ruin wall, take some shots at an opponents unit with a character or whatever you feel like putting chip damage on then move behind the ruin to avoid getting shot. That or more standard is to just deep strike around the board as an action monkey squad. If you were to run a Callidus, Shrike and if you are daring 2 Reivers with Grav-Chutes you can have up to 4 units disappear at the end of the opponents turn to then show up during yours to perform actions and placement as needed. This in theory means if you draw investiage signals could get that done with a full 4 corners done, similar with engage on all fronts. Also Invictors are Phobos units. You can get them back into reserve as well along side another unit and redeploy as needed. This detachment isn't about raw power, this is a very movement based detachment that as I found during my game I had recently (as of time writing this) was shown that you need to place efficiently and soundly. Also a shout-out to bladeguard led by a Judicar with Infiltrate. If you can find a spot in the centre of the field to hide them, they become quite a scary issue for the opponent to approach as now even if they get charged, they fight first.
Just take scouts or Jump A intercessors all much better options for back line jumping and being effective for their points. Reivers are a trap the lack of assault on anything doubly makes them dead in my book.
Note ALL redeploys work the same way per the rules commentary. "but before the first turn begins" is the Resolve Pre Battle Abilities step which is after Determine First Turn. Phbobs cap over explains a core mechanic like how Ogryn are the only datasheet that explicitly reduces damage by one "to a minimum of one". They were probably written first. Edit whoops double posted in a reply somewhere because my app crashed and I couldn't find it after so I thought it failed my b
Reivers wish they were scouts. Hope Reivers get a bluff like Lightning Claws (on the box art of the Shadow Strike set from last year). Something cool and thematic.
I normally like Tau, I like raven guard for other reasons other than them being in a tau book, but before I loaded this video in my queue, on my newrecruit raven guard build I decided this detachment was also best for my intentions haha
I want to do the same. With a Captain too, to add some punch. I was thinking of adding the Rogue Traders from Agents, so that they can be redeployed if one loses the roll off to go first. So you can't Infiltrate aggressively to push back enemy infiltrators and pull back if you lose turn 1.
There are other tricks here to with that movement stratagem. You can force your opponent into Heroic Intervention range against a unit of say…..a 6-man Bladeguard squad with attached Judicier.
How does starting a boatload of DW knights 9” away from your opponent “fit the theme”? It’s just annoying that it’s being used to exploit a detachment that was never meant for DA in the first place. One of their singular weaknesses is negated here. Really hoping divergent chapters get locked out of these eventually, as it’s going to likely punish compliant chapters who don’t have the ability to abuse things like this. Already can’t wait for the Iron Hands detatchment to single-handedly push up all the points of our vehicles, and tactics like this will likely make the enhancement either far more restrictive or way more costly.
Totally agree, I'm way put off the way Astartes are handled now. Letting the divergent Chapters just use whatever rules/detachments they want, (when they already have several special units/characters), it just feels bad for the vanilla marines. My Raven Guard list suffer any points or rules changes because WAAC players have to abuse the game. "Sneaky" doesn't fit huge, bulky, bone-white Deathwing knights, and anyone claiming otherwise is just meta-chasing.@@owenhouck5281
I just keep thinking thunderwolves cavalry get - 1 to hit, how fun is this, 2 x6 TWC with wolf lord and battle leader, and behind them a lot of shooting unit makes me so excited to try this detachment in SW
Ive been playing a bunch of test games with this detachment and its actually unbeatable. I have a mean list that plays the game without exposing any of my units until usually turn 3. This is by using strike and fade and indirect fire. Hell, you can even capture objectives without being on them if you go first and have an infiltration unit with the stratagem. This means your opponent can't afford to counter your cagey strategy by also being cagey. If you play this detachment right, it is insanely powerful
In my experience, it's also a good way to have the enemy either full focus them turn 1 or avoid them all game. It's a LOT of points for a gambit that most likely does not pay off.
@@r3dmanMICI feel like you literally CANT afford to ignore them when they’re starting 9” away from your deployment zone. If they get first turn, they can likely charge something immediately. Also I don’t really know if there are any tools in the game that can blow up 10 DW knights with ease especially considering their extra wound and ability.
@r3dmanMIC I play Dark Angels and it's a douche move. Run it at a GT, but don't run it with friends or at a local shop. There is zero chance you're avoiding them unless you spend your entire hopefully first turn mayyybe killing them.
@owenhouck5281 10 knights at -1 wound and 2 characters attached is a crazy thing to get charged with on turn 1. So many saves and wounds, you definitely have to take them on immediately.
@@Crack_the_Skye It's a risky move IMO. A 10-man brick with two characters is quite hard to hide depending on terrain, and having such a large brick of points lets many armies deploy around them since they have more units, and if you don't go first and lose 4 or more knights (to, say, a big pile of dam1 fire) the value of the unit diminishes enormously.
I was playing with a Vanguard list before the rules were announced and your list and ine is very similar, I dont have a Lancer since I cant find them in the US but its very close. Thanks for the video!
A good thing to put into infiltrate is a 20 man crusader squader with grimmaldus leading. That's a 20 man melee monster, with 6in scout move, and a 5+ FNP from grimmace
@@Lawless4566 Grimaldus is not a Chapter Master or Captain, the secondary characters cannot attach to his unit to take the infiltrate enhancement. But, Helbrecht and a Castellen is possible.
This is the detachment I decided to go with. A blob of sneaky centurion devastators that can kill a tank, disappear then show up somewhere else and kill a tank is just to funny. I’m thinking infiltrate on blade guard with a judicar to jam up my opponent with fight first while my scouts, eliminators, incursors, warsuits flood the board and sabotage objectives if they shoot at me the warsuits shoot back, if they try to charge I back up, all while my ranged units dismantle them while my sticky objectives score.
By far my favorite detachment for my Raven Guard. Honestly this detachment feels like space marines playing as eldar, there is sooo much just annoying stuff that your opponent just can’t deal with and I love it. Can’t wait to make people rage over Shrike and his jump pack homies you just can’t shoot or charge
Can't do that. Grim's keywords prevent him from having a second character join his unit. Though you can do other character combo's that have a Captain/Chapter Master + Castellen/Lt/Apoth(if applicable)
I'd say new Jump Assaults. They're cheaper and hit harder funnily enough and can dish out mortals. They don't get the 4+ invul but who cares when they hit harder and are cheaper.
as allways with the new codex, Space Wolves for the win, Ragnar+6 Bladeguard+Leutnant or Ancient with Blade drifen deep enhancement riding in a Land Raider Redeemer up front with 2 extra squads of Eliminators as charge protection with the Calculated Feint strat. Put Logan on Stormrider with full Thunderwolves in Reserve... Good Hunting Sons of Russ
I think this is the biggest problem with the detachment system. Codex compliant chapters have smaller rosters and their non-compliant peers can do everything they can do and more, with unique detachments and unit options. Codex compliant chapters need more benefits or non-compliant chapters need a downside for taking Codex detachments or something.
I like it, although I could see the rule redundancy meaning it won't be the optimal way to play space marines. Should be powerful enough to be decent though.
It will. Vanguard has fun deployment & movement shenanigans, but the Ironstorm has more offensive capabilities to actually win games. Similar to Anvil.
So looking at the army, it seems like this detachment really likes to focus on deep striking and jumping around. Because of that, finding sources of +1 to charge or reroll charges innately is quite important. It does mean that they can score secondaries consistently even if your callidus or combi-weapon lieutenant gets sniped (a big focus for a lot of lists these days). I do think they do the boltstorm aggressor bomb with biologis really good. You aren't using it for the entire game, but as something to shove down your opponent's throat turn 1 and then distract them for turn 2 it works quite well, gives you time to demo charge midfield objectives and get your shooting pieces into their firing lanes (which you can just sit out in the open on thanks to the cover). Very terrain dependent, but if you can place first floor line of sight blocking terrain in the midfield this detachment jumps an entire tier. I think a mix of hellblasters, some aggressors+biologis, shrike+10x jumps, a callidus, and 2x5 scouts along with whatever pieces of kit fit your local meta can make a vicious list (especially if you throw in redemptors or ballistus). Reserve eradicators also works amazingly well, walk them up, fire away, jump them back into reserves to another flank.
@@william9557 Battleshock is a terribly-written mechanic and "break morale" isn't as good as you think it is. Lethal hits is a great keyword... just not on Reivers. No one has much concern for S4 AP0 combat knives or S4 AP-1 bolt pistols. There are so many decent units in the codex to spend points on but Reivers aren't one of them.
I do love my reivers, but god damn I can't find a good use for them except jumping in for a secondary. They just can not reliably kill anything more than T3 enemy.
Does anyone have the exact text of the Guerilla Tactics strategems? If it is "Two phobos units or one other infantery unit" then it could be used to redeploy two invictor tactical warsuits. Those have the Phobos keyword for some reasons, at least on the index cards Also: that MIGHT not be an accident considering they just happened to put two of those into the raven guard strike force box on christmas Also: they are very fun with the Tank Shock strategem. 15 dice, 5+ for mortals, 6 at most tho. On that note: you can also use the captain in phobos armor redeploys on them. "Why do I have 3 almost dreanoughts, a bunch of phobos units and a block of terminators in front of my deployment zone turn 1?" "Scouts 8, They are Phobos, and the blade driven deep" "And if I had gotten turn 1?" "See that guy? He can make them go poof if you did."
OTHER DETACHMENT REVIEWS HERE:
First Company - th-cam.com/video/RQiNWV3KtIM/w-d-xo.html
Firestorm Assault Force - th-cam.com/video/pKJ52r41KPw/w-d-xo.html
Anvil Siege Force - th-cam.com/video/PcSZrQBgIh4/w-d-xo.html
Ironstorm Spearhead - th-cam.com/video/eoC1U3h6W_s/w-d-xo.html
Precision Stratagem is absolutely worth it if you have a captain in a melee squad. The amount of leaders i have assassinated with it as a free strat is insane
This is the most “I do something” “NUH UH” army
If "fuck you" was a space marine detachment:
Mono U Marine Army?
Grey knights have entered the chat
Fucking paaaaaiiiinful stuff
And that is why we love them
This is unironically one of the best detachments for Terminators since you can give them infiltrate on your opponents line, and then have a captain give them precision for free on turn 1.
IF MAGIC THE GATHERING BLUE MAGIC WAS A SPACE MARINE FORCE.
Unless it changes from the Index, its always worth remembering Invictors now have the PHOBOS keyword.
I will be rechecking it myself soon.
All of the sneaky strats require phobos infantry keywords
Interestingly Klaven seems to have lost the phobos keyword
@@notaskrull8304 Klaven? You mean Kayvaan Shrike?
@@andrewblock5339 yeah of course.
I think my fave infiltration unit is 6x bladeguard, Marneus Calgar and a Leutennant. The LT carries the enhancement and brings lethal hits, Marneus just hits like a truck with his buddies and gives advance and charge. Bladeguard gonna bladeguard.
This is probably my favourite detachment just for silly shit.
I personally like to add the Judiciar to the bladeguard instead. Fights First really makes enemies think twice about charging.
@r3dmanMIC totally agree. Judiciar and bladeguard is great for controlling the opponent, he has to either avoid them or focus fire on them.
Same but with Ragnar xD
@@r3dmanMICi didn't consider him since I don't have the model but that's another interesting choice.
Yea judiciar for those shenanigans. Then
Ran into this detachment yesterday vs Dark Angels, the range shooting debuff really hurt, Centurion Devastators were his star unit. I made a tactical mistake, couple really game end close in a loss for me (Ultramarines) 76-71 . For 3 rounds I got secondaries that were impossible to achieve. I like this detachment lots of good stuff. I’m gonna use it against Necrons next week.
I was just thinking about a Raven Guard themed list this morning.
Blessed be the Auspex.
Edit: Feel bad for Reivers, here’s an entire detachment you’d think would be right for em, but even here, there’s better things to spend points on.
Part of the issue has always been that Reivers trade damage for battle shock which has just never worked.
@@basteala525I concur. Battleshock needs to be a tangible threat to unit performance beyond the OC and Strat debuff, or make terror troops have a distinct advantage when using BS.
They should have a suite of unique advantages vs a battle shocked unit.
@@ShahbazBokhari I feel like a way way to make battleshock more impactful could be turning of most of the single role defining special rules units have (where it makes sense)..
@@ShahbazBokhari yeah thats prob the best way to do it they need something that makes battleshock worse or does extra damage to battleshocked units
I played this detachment last night. Guerilla tactics was powerful. Kiting Lych guard to one side of the board and then just disappearing, to come back in, as reserves was strong enough but then shooting and moving on to the obj with eliminators in the same turn was chef's kiss.
With Klaven, you could have 3 units in total, per turn, redeploying.
Geurilla Tactics on an Inceptor Squad would be nuts
Beaks for life!
Victoria aut ca CAWWW
execute and redeploy is great on a phobos captain + eliminators, keep them safe, free strike from the shadows every turn, and no longer need to sacrifice a rifle for the carbine.
Sadly I only have 3 elims so a captain probably isn’t worth is
Knowing this detachment was coming is the reason I started an all phobos loyalist Alpha Legion army
Welcome to the club, pal.
@@judeblack4360 Hydra Dominatus??
It looks like a fun set of rules, especially apt for a ravenguard player.
Actually this sounds fun to run a more aggressive space sharks list.
I know I’m putting Tyberos with this. Big Shark Daddy extra stealthy
@@cpt.s.seiden wait does he have a stat sheet?
@@chimeraelite unfortunately no. You’d have to run him as a terminator captain with lightning claws. Although it’s actually pretty close to his 9e stats.
I enjoyed their old rules (ravenguard successor with stealth and Whirlwind of Rage) I'm glad this Detachment kept some of my favorite tricks from the last codex (a deadly prize Paired with incursors with a mine and master of ambush). Shame the tyberos rules got legendsed that +1 strength aura really helped the army punch above its weight.
The Shadow War Vet and Callidus Assassin will act like the Deathwatch variant, so you could double up or spread CP cost increases on important strats.
Triple vect with deathwatch 😂
Played Shrike with the new rules the other night, he is very fun.
My codex just arrived today :D can't wait to try this one, I wish it had better synergy with Shrike, but at least he has phobos keyword now, so can move 6' if calculated feint is used on his unit.
Btw the phobos captain redeploys up to 3 phobos units.. invictor has the phobos keyword in this edition and scout 8' XD
Loyalist Alpha Legionnaire *HEAVY BREATHING*
I mean, Shrike is awesome, but if you're willing to give him up you can write an entire chapter for yourself.
I was skeptical about Invictors due to how off they look in an RG army, but if they're Phobos, plus their counterattack ability, hell I'll take two!
I kinda wish that it would have more phobos only features. Maybe something that would give reivers a boost that would make them useful.
+1 to wound for phobos units against battle shocked targets within 6" of reiver units
Devastator Centurions are very good in this Detachment. With the Stratagem, they natively reroll 1s and hit on 2+ and then put 6 twin-linked AP-4 lascannons into something, + all the extra shots from the breast launchers (which are pretty good). You can negate their bad mobility by putting them back into reserves every turn.
Speaking of which, if you take Uriel Ventris and give a unit the "Deep Strike" ability, you can deepstrike that unit every turn wherever you want when putting them back into reserves.
The biggest problem is phobos armies are quite "meh" when it comes to actually fighting.
S4 guns and melee across the board.
Eliminators should come in more than 3.
Scout snipers just disappeared, sgt tigerius and the S9 rocket launchers with them.
They have next to no anti tank or monster capability beyond some las fusils.
Sure, the invictor has an S14 fist. Good luck getting him close enough before he dies with his low toughness compared to a dread.
They are support units. Not the building blocks for an army.
And this is from a raven guard lover and someone who sold themselves on trying to make a phobos heavy list since 10th rolled out.
You’ve got to bring in a lot of units alongside your Phobos units. I’ve been playing a list that is majority Phobos, but I’ve got 2 or 3 units that are in standard power armor and a lot of vehicles. I think that it is still thematic for your vanguard units to keep eyes on enemies as your heavy hitting units roll in (it’s literally what Incursors are designed to do in lore)
Beauty is, you don't have to run Phobos heavy.
@@Sanctjud There is no beauty just wasted opportunity to get reivers in particular to matter, and gimmicks over lethality for phobos and scouts doesn't really describe raven guard well. It why every else other than RG bois are gushing particularly DW,SW,and DA fans.
@@tastefulavenger the problem ultimately stems from divergent chapters being able to take compliant detatchments. Blow that up and then everything would be fine. It’s mostly people salivating at undercutting the balance of hard hitting units that only they get needing time to get in combat. I hate when people blatantly exploit something that was clearly never meant for them, often to the harm of others who don’t play that way when the detatchment could eventually get nerfed
Oh boy can't wait to totally rework my alpha legion list for this
I see you're Alpharius, I'm pretty Alpharius myself 😏
Hydra Dominatus!
You forgot to mention that Shrike with a squad of VVets can Rapid Ingress just outside of 12” meaning they’re safe from the shooting and charge phase.
In this way to you can essentially assassinate any character or take out a good chunk of infantry
This would be a lot of fun with deathwatch. Black spear task force is still (post nerf) excellent.
Was considering running Deathwatch with this detachment. Would make for some fun shenanigans with delivering units right onto the enemies door step that needed to be there.
I think one thing to note here is that the Detachment Rule stacks with Stealth to give you -1 to hit through JT's and Markerlights etc
It seems like Strike from the Shadows causing battle shock could be used as an objective denial tool and prevent an opponent from scoring as much.
I feel you missed a mention of Reivers. While they have been maligned, they are 85 points to get a unit of Phobos with the deep strike key word with Grav-Chutes. This is helpful when using their back to reserves as now they can just come back down anywhere.
If you want to give them a phobos lieutenant, give them the standard one, not the reiver one and now they can deep strike around the board, put their backs to a ruin wall, take some shots at an opponents unit with a character or whatever you feel like putting chip damage on then move behind the ruin to avoid getting shot. That or more standard is to just deep strike around the board as an action monkey squad.
If you were to run a Callidus, Shrike and if you are daring 2 Reivers with Grav-Chutes you can have up to 4 units disappear at the end of the opponents turn to then show up during yours to perform actions and placement as needed. This in theory means if you draw investiage signals could get that done with a full 4 corners done, similar with engage on all fronts.
Also Invictors are Phobos units. You can get them back into reserve as well along side another unit and redeploy as needed. This detachment isn't about raw power, this is a very movement based detachment that as I found during my game I had recently (as of time writing this) was shown that you need to place efficiently and soundly.
Also a shout-out to bladeguard led by a Judicar with Infiltrate. If you can find a spot in the centre of the field to hide them, they become quite a scary issue for the opponent to approach as now even if they get charged, they fight first.
Yea, tldr, just take assault squads
Just take scouts or Jump A intercessors all much better options for back line jumping and being effective for their points. Reivers are a trap the lack of assault on anything doubly makes them dead in my book.
Note ALL redeploys work the same way per the rules commentary. "but before the first turn begins" is the Resolve Pre Battle Abilities step which is after Determine First Turn. Phbobs cap over explains a core mechanic like how Ogryn are the only datasheet that explicitly reduces damage by one "to a minimum of one". They were probably written first.
Edit whoops double posted in a reply somewhere because my app crashed and I couldn't find it after so I thought it failed my b
My fav detachment, i lobe ravenguard
Reivers wish they were scouts. Hope Reivers get a bluff like Lightning Claws (on the box art of the Shadow Strike set from last year). Something cool and thematic.
Cant wait to run my blood angels with this
I normally like Tau, I like raven guard for other reasons other than them being in a tau book, but before I loaded this video in my queue, on my newrecruit raven guard build I decided this detachment was also best for my intentions haha
One step closer to my dream of a frustrating as f*ck Deathwatch Phobos army.
Perfect for my boys the Raptor Legion 👌
I imagine, a Biologis led 10 men HvIntercessor Squad starting on the mid board objective could be a pain for your opponent to shift.
Sure, though you could do the same with termies.
I want to do the same. With a Captain too, to add some punch. I was thinking of adding the Rogue Traders from Agents, so that they can be redeployed if one loses the roll off to go first. So you can't Infiltrate aggressively to push back enemy infiltrators and pull back if you lose turn 1.
There are other tricks here to with that movement stratagem. You can force your opponent into Heroic Intervention range against a unit of say…..a 6-man Bladeguard squad with attached Judicier.
Definitely ready to try this with Dark Angels. Fits the theme and a lot of scary combos.
Art of war did it yesterday. Very overbearing with those knights
How does starting a boatload of DW knights 9” away from your opponent “fit the theme”? It’s just annoying that it’s being used to exploit a detachment that was never meant for DA in the first place. One of their singular weaknesses is negated here. Really hoping divergent chapters get locked out of these eventually, as it’s going to likely punish compliant chapters who don’t have the ability to abuse things like this. Already can’t wait for the Iron Hands detatchment to single-handedly push up all the points of our vehicles, and tactics like this will likely make the enhancement either far more restrictive or way more costly.
Totally agree, I'm way put off the way Astartes are handled now. Letting the divergent Chapters just use whatever rules/detachments they want, (when they already have several special units/characters), it just feels bad for the vanilla marines. My Raven Guard list suffer any points or rules changes because WAAC players have to abuse the game.
"Sneaky" doesn't fit huge, bulky, bone-white Deathwing knights, and anyone claiming otherwise is just meta-chasing.@@owenhouck5281
@@owenhouck5281 Name an SM chapter that fits the clandestine trope of Vanguard better than Dark Angels, besides Raven Guard.
I just keep thinking thunderwolves cavalry get - 1 to hit, how fun is this, 2 x6 TWC with wolf lord and battle leader, and behind them a lot of shooting unit makes me so excited to try this detachment in SW
You gotta run that white scars themed one, that’s gnarly for SW
Seriously considering running my death watch in this, at least sometimes. Would let me use my scouts and devastators again too.
Ive been playing a bunch of test games with this detachment and its actually unbeatable. I have a mean list that plays the game without exposing any of my units until usually turn 3. This is by using strike and fade and indirect fire. Hell, you can even capture objectives without being on them if you go first and have an infiltration unit with the stratagem. This means your opponent can't afford to counter your cagey strategy by also being cagey. If you play this detachment right, it is insanely powerful
Sounds cool. Can you share your list?
Tau don't have many issues getting around master of shadows.
My friend plays Imp Guard with a basilisk. The earthshaker round is annoying, I think this detachment will help against that.
This is gonna be awesome tactical and vector war suit redeploying just sounds awesome
Infiltrating a deathwing knights squad with a leader or two is a good way to not have friends.
In my experience, it's also a good way to have the enemy either full focus them turn 1 or avoid them all game. It's a LOT of points for a gambit that most likely does not pay off.
@@r3dmanMICI feel like you literally CANT afford to ignore them when they’re starting 9” away from your deployment zone. If they get first turn, they can likely charge something immediately. Also I don’t really know if there are any tools in the game that can blow up 10 DW knights with ease especially considering their extra wound and ability.
@r3dmanMIC I play Dark Angels and it's a douche move. Run it at a GT, but don't run it with friends or at a local shop. There is zero chance you're avoiding them unless you spend your entire hopefully first turn mayyybe killing them.
@owenhouck5281 10 knights at -1 wound and 2 characters attached is a crazy thing to get charged with on turn 1.
So many saves and wounds, you definitely have to take them on immediately.
@@Crack_the_Skye It's a risky move IMO. A 10-man brick with two characters is quite hard to hide depending on terrain, and having such a large brick of points lets many armies deploy around them since they have more units, and if you don't go first and lose 4 or more knights (to, say, a big pile of dam1 fire) the value of the unit diminishes enormously.
No matter how hard they try, phobos will always be the biggest shit stain in the spacemarine range. All we wanted was upscaled classic units.
It's been 8yrs, move on.
@@tastefulavenger i said ALWAYS.
Na aesthetically they’re great and its a game of scoring, which they’re great at doing with their Infiltrator and scout moves.
I was playing with a Vanguard list before the rules were announced and your list and ine is very similar, I dont have a Lancer since I cant find them in the US but its very close. Thanks for the video!
Strike from the shadows gives +1 BS not +1 to hit which makes it way better!
A good thing to put into infiltrate is a 20 man crusader squader with grimmaldus leading. That's a 20 man melee monster, with 6in scout move, and a 5+ FNP from grimmace
I don’t think you can put another character in that unit to take the enhancement to infiltrate though as grimaldus can’t take it himself.
@@Lawless4566 Grimaldus is not a Chapter Master or Captain, the secondary characters cannot attach to his unit to take the infiltrate enhancement. But, Helbrecht and a Castellen is possible.
Also, you can't scout with them unless the character attached also has scout, just fyi
i just notice an important thing with gladiator lancer : for re rolls, it's an "and" and not a "or" as ironstorm detachment 😱
correct
This is the detachment I decided to go with. A blob of sneaky centurion devastators that can kill a tank, disappear then show up somewhere else and kill a tank is just to funny. I’m thinking infiltrate on blade guard with a judicar to jam up my opponent with fight first while my scouts, eliminators, incursors, warsuits flood the board and sabotage objectives if they shoot at me the warsuits shoot back, if they try to charge I back up, all while my ranged units dismantle them while my sticky objectives score.
I look forward to picking up Inceptors again and throwing them down again without playing Deathwatch.
By far my favorite detachment for my Raven Guard. Honestly this detachment feels like space marines playing as eldar, there is sooo much just annoying stuff that your opponent just can’t deal with and I love it. Can’t wait to make people rage over Shrike and his jump pack homies you just can’t shoot or charge
I think that if we use a Phobos only army, the enhancements becomes quite redundant, cause Phobos characters already have them.
How will the benefit of cover work against an enemy that negates cover like T'au's markerlight keyword? What rule would trump the other?
Ignore cover will cancel it.
20 man Primaris Crusader Squad with Grimaldus and the Infiltrators rule? Yes please.
Can't do that. Grim's keywords prevent him from having a second character join his unit. Though you can do other character combo's that have a Captain/Chapter Master + Castellen/Lt/Apoth(if applicable)
@@Sanctjud I forgot. Well, maybe a Castellan could join?
Using vanguard spearhead and shrike, what would be best to run with him, the new jump pack boys or vanvets?
I'd say new Jump Assaults. They're cheaper and hit harder funnily enough and can dish out mortals. They don't get the 4+ invul but who cares when they hit harder and are cheaper.
as allways with the new codex, Space Wolves for the win, Ragnar+6 Bladeguard+Leutnant or Ancient with Blade drifen deep enhancement riding in a Land Raider Redeemer up front with 2 extra squads of Eliminators as charge protection with the Calculated Feint strat. Put Logan on Stormrider with full Thunderwolves in Reserve... Good Hunting Sons of Russ
I think this is the biggest problem with the detachment system. Codex compliant chapters have smaller rosters and their non-compliant peers can do everything they can do and more, with unique detachments and unit options. Codex compliant chapters need more benefits or non-compliant chapters need a downside for taking Codex detachments or something.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 exactly it really sucks codex complaint chapters are simply worse in their own book
@peters6345 agreed. Maybe if the compliant chapters had more unique units, or non-compliant lost a buff?
Landraider isn't a dedicated transport though so can't gain infiltrate from the unit inside, right?
I like it, although I could see the rule redundancy meaning it won't be the optimal way to play space marines. Should be powerful enough to be decent though.
I'll deploy 3 of my 3 spectrus KT to support phobos units from other chapters xd
Why not infiltrafe a proteus kill team. Thats what ill be doing
I wonder if Ironstorm will still be more competitive overall than vanguard.
It will. Vanguard has fun deployment & movement shenanigans, but the Ironstorm has more offensive capabilities to actually win games. Similar to Anvil.
Calgar, eradicators forward deployed in cover 👍
So looking at the army, it seems like this detachment really likes to focus on deep striking and jumping around. Because of that, finding sources of +1 to charge or reroll charges innately is quite important. It does mean that they can score secondaries consistently even if your callidus or combi-weapon lieutenant gets sniped (a big focus for a lot of lists these days).
I do think they do the boltstorm aggressor bomb with biologis really good. You aren't using it for the entire game, but as something to shove down your opponent's throat turn 1 and then distract them for turn 2 it works quite well, gives you time to demo charge midfield objectives and get your shooting pieces into their firing lanes (which you can just sit out in the open on thanks to the cover). Very terrain dependent, but if you can place first floor line of sight blocking terrain in the midfield this detachment jumps an entire tier.
I think a mix of hellblasters, some aggressors+biologis, shrike+10x jumps, a callidus, and 2x5 scouts along with whatever pieces of kit fit your local meta can make a vicious list (especially if you throw in redemptors or ballistus). Reserve eradicators also works amazingly well, walk them up, fire away, jump them back into reserves to another flank.
I am curious to see what the Lt. in phobos armour leading reavers can do in Vanguard Spearhead...
Nothing special considering Reivers still suck.
@@Strigon_Actuallethal precision hits isn't anything to scoff at
Deepstrike, shoot, move d6", charge, break morale
@@william9557 Battleshock is a terribly-written mechanic and "break morale" isn't as good as you think it is. Lethal hits is a great keyword... just not on Reivers. No one has much concern for S4 AP0 combat knives or S4 AP-1 bolt pistols. There are so many decent units in the codex to spend points on but Reivers aren't one of them.
I do love my reivers, but god damn I can't find a good use for them except jumping in for a secondary. They just can not reliably kill anything more than T3 enemy.
Snikrot looking WAY over-costed now.
Pretty sure I'm gonna try this for my Black Templar. To keep me on the board until I chainsword you into oblivion
no reiver ?....ok ok, I'm already outside.
Does anyone have the exact text of the Guerilla Tactics strategems? If it is "Two phobos units or one other infantery unit" then it could be used to redeploy two invictor tactical warsuits. Those have the Phobos keyword for some reasons, at least on the index cards
Also: that MIGHT not be an accident considering they just happened to put two of those into the raven guard strike force box on christmas
Also: they are very fun with the Tank Shock strategem. 15 dice, 5+ for mortals, 6 at most tho.
On that note: you can also use the captain in phobos armor redeploys on them.
"Why do I have 3 almost dreanoughts, a bunch of phobos units and a block of terminators in front of my deployment zone turn 1?" "Scouts 8, They are Phobos, and the blade driven deep" "And if I had gotten turn 1?" "See that guy? He can make them go poof if you did."
And I’m sitting on Raven Guard boxset.
I see 70 pts for the librarian phobos on the dataslate, not 65.
You are correct
Why do people keep saying shrike has the phobos keyword?
It got added in the new codex
It got added back in the codex, he had it in 9th.
It can stealthy drain your wallet and leave nothing on the place where damage was supposed to go.
not gonna use it, but hey i have always been an iron hand guy and i will be using vehicles in one list and gravis in the other one.
I’m gonna paint my marines army as alpha legion and use this detachment, because lmao I am Alpharius
Makes me wish I had some Ravenwing!
You don't need to be Ravenwing to use this detachment!
Why would it help RW? (new here)
Time to play warhammer by not playing warhammer with Vanguard detachment
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