Ditch Your Digital Console For Touch Screens?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- In this episode we talk with the worship pastor of Venue Church about what is had been like to switch from a digital sound console to a couple of touch screens and the Waves eMotion LV1 software. Thank you for watching. Please SUBSCRIBE to be updated when new content is released.
Behind the Scenes Venue Church Chattanooga, TN
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A lot of people are saying the feel of real faders cannot be replaced and I completely agree. I use and love our M32 at my church. Yet, it’s interesting to see what’s out there and what others are using. Thanks for watching everyone!
Some still love black berry phone too :) Most all of the people that say neg things about new products have never tried them at all!!!
I use x32 compact and control it with my iPad. I literally can do everything and it is super handy and gives me flexibility. As reliability of touch screen increase more and more, there will be more people that prefer touch screen.
It's really awesome to see the technology in todays days. Now I would much rather would prefer physical faders for volume but for the rest i would be fine with a touch screen. So an easy solution would be to simply add a midi fader to the saftware. Especially for running lights its nice to have some physical feedback when you press buttons or raise faders. So it would be nice to see more midi options out there as well. Blessings to you guys!!
Pretty sure you could hook it up with MIDI faders? The system is lightyears ahead most digital mixers, and the modular structure of the system is unprecedented IMO. I agree that having actual physical faders and knobs is much better than touch screen, but regular digital mixers have no other advantages over this
You can absolutely use physical faders with this LV1 system if that is your preference. I use the Behringer X-Touch faders, with the X-Touch extension you have 16 faders at your fingertips. Super easy to set up and use. I’m used to an X32 myself but the waves is my personal favorite. X32 makes me take 2 channels linked for stereo whereas Waves allows me to turn any single channel into stereo. Custom views, SO MANY MORE matrix outs than the X32 (again, 1 matrix can be mono OR stereo without having to link to another matrix.) This gives me the sends I need. Look up the LV1 training videos, there are problems 50 of them in the series. Enjoy!
I love both! Digital- Analog- give me anything. I'll make it work. Nothing like a tablet to help walking around a room.
I went this way for about 2 years, using the Soundcraft UI24. It's a great mixer and very cost effective but I'm over it. Wifi dropouts, slow screens, poor feel, I just couldn't get used to it. I've gone back to the Presonus Studiolive 32sc and I love it. It's just far more intuitive and faster and I'm much happier.
I did, and I’m so happy with this huge change in my studio!
We switched to a Mackie DL32r (Don’t @ me) and haven’t looked back. As a mobile church that goes into tons of different venues, it’s small, flexible and powerful, with 32 inputs and 14+2 outs, and Dante expansion options. We were amazed at how the iPad app somehow felt more connected to the mix, even over other iPad remote mixing apps. We have used an enjoy them all, but Mackie nailed this. I could see Waves being good to use!
Even we have Mackie dl16
It's awsm
WE are changing our set up and going this direction because this is THE WAY to go ....THANK'S
You're Welcome. Thanks for watching.
We still have older digital models still installed in our Worship Center and overflow areas (that we also use for radio and webcast), but we just replaced our mobile unit with a boardless unit. It has a small touch screen on the front and we have a dedicated wireless network and iPad for controlling it remotely. It's nice to roll into a place, set the unit down at the stage area, plug directly into it (32 channels with the expansion), and not have to have a space in the room for a mixing station and run a snake and some power out to it. You can walk around the room and set levels as you go. We went with Yamaha since all our other hard digital systems are Yamaha. It just makes it easier to train on because the control software has the same function and feel as the others.
We use the Soundcraft Ui24 system...made a difference, we’re only a small church but it’s been great.
Physical faders are, in my opinion, easier to mix than touchscreen. You have a greater sense of control and physical feedback. Saying this reduces cabling is a misnomer. Most modern digital desks can take a digital stagebox, which means typically 1 network cable running from stage to desk. We run a DigiCo S21 console with a D-2 rack (40 down 16 up config). This runs two network cables (for 96k processing) from stage to desk. Even with Waves, you still have the physical cables from mics, receivers, instruments going into a stagebox, it's just not at your desk like the analog boards. Having said that, this is a much cheaper and more flexible setup. Reliability of the PC would be my concern here.
I am not a fan of the system but you can get physical fader/control surfaces for it like you would for Ableton.
Taking 2 seconds on that mixer and a sec on an analog
Í disagree... Mixing with sliders on a screen will never ever beat mixing with fades on a board... Never.
Saul Pena what matters is the outcome not the process. Different processes work for different people because we are all different. Mixing with sliders might not work for you but it works for others. There’s just one rule! The rule is to get the job done! Mix good and clean however u make it depends on you.
I don't think we will ever mix without fades but think about the next generation of tech and kids - they all know how to work a touch pad and will be use to the feel
Touch screens will look cool but for me personally, feeling a slider to get your levels absolute spot on is the way to go.
Tried it for over a month, hated it never able to get the accuracy of real faders. Also realized my hands are always riding multiple faders. And I need to be looking up to what's coming using my hands to feel where the faders are.
Midi have you heard of it?
I am a live audio engineer for 25 years and you will imagine how it was in those years but I like innovation this is perfect for me life would be boring if all life would be the same.
I use an iPad for the M32 all the time, it works awesome for remote use but still is not as good as the real slider and button control. It’s like going from 3D to 2d. Very easy to make a mistake. And in my mind a degrade. I think a combo is the perfect solution but wouldn’t want the screen full time.
My biological dad sometimes works as a sound guy and he told me a couple of years ago that many sound guys nowadays just use Ipads.
By the way, ask someone who flys drones if they want to use sticks or a screen. It will be sticks 99.9% of the time!
Big orange! I'm from Sparta. Living in Florida now, and using touch screens. Good vid, and unmistakable accent.
Love to look into this more. Going to waves. Thank you and God Bless.
It's funny how in the US churches seem to have these amazing sound systems when over here in Europe all you can hope for is a 100V PA system that reverberates like crazy and the whole system just sounds like crap. Not that I'd bother, I'm not a church guy, but let's face it, these are freaking churches that are better equipped than a mid-sized venue and sound a lot better. Apart from not setting foot into a church if I can help it, I'd just love to have a go at such a venue and play with it.
I agree with it if you’re using a DAW for a stream mix and analog/digital for FOH
Id like to see a sort of hybrid console... Real faders with touch screens for everything else.
I've been down this path before. It's OK if you have a super tight organised mix but if your riding the faders is basically in possible. Having at least a gain and a fader in hardware makes a super big difference. Which is what most new digital consoles are. If you want waves then just use multi rack and run it over something like aes or danate.
Couldnt get into it.
Realtime riding the fader still feels incredibly off.
Very cool/interesting solution! From the sounds of it, I bet this would be a great solution for churches that have to set up/tear down every Sunday. Just plug up your computer and run a cat6 to the stage box!
I kind of think the bigger picture is more about cabling. Reducing the big snake cables and crazy-cabling down to a network cable is huge.. Now thats been around for a while again, but that last mile and the general elimination of gear makes this something even a smaller venue (or I guess church, in this context) able to aim for a more professional and potentially more reliable setup.
I respectfully disagree, we do have the x32 at my church which awesome with an ipad with touch screen, but nothing closer to the experience of sliders. It is literally going from using 3D objects to 2D! Sorry I don't see the future going that route.
You just did Jonathan. Much like the X32 being the so called "game changer" at the time - this is where many things are headed. I'm old school, and love the faders and knobs, but I use more tech than that - and if you own a cell phone (which you do ), then you are already the future in your hands.
@@stephenwillamtarakmusic3206use your phone to jump to a specific time in the video, it's infuriating
It might not work for you but the tech will progress and get better over time, a new generation who only understands touch screen tech is on the way to replacing you, so either accept that it's coming or get left behind. The choice as always is yours. I never understand so called tech people being unwilling to accept new innovations in technology.
I love my iPhone, iPad, and iPod but I still prefer to type on a physical keyboard over a touchscreen any day. Same thing goes for a career in audio. If it was once and a while I wouldn’t mind it but not as a FOH engineer. But the great thing is we can choose!
Midi have you heard of it?
I can see a good argument for going this route, especially with multi-touch screens allowing multiple faders to be adjusted. I'll admit that I love the idea of having physical sliders that jump around and impress the uninitiated, but sliders wear out and physical devices aren't easily up-gradable. I suppose a church could even run this software and ProPresenter on the same machine, though that doesn't seem like the best idea.
Midi have you heard of it?
@@alanbam5590 yes
for the money of this software you can get a full x32 with the possibility for touchscreen control.
“It’s a NO from me” Would prefer a console with supporting iPad application.
Thanks for watching!
That's pretty similar though. Having said that the price of the software is ridiculous and rather than spend that money on the software one could just buy the X32 rack and use the iPad. Job done lol
If anyone knocking the system for lack of "faders" would take the time to learn that there's a very good and cost-efficient board (made by Waves) that can set up with LV1 to give you the physical faders... Also, Waves is used on every big-named tour that you would attend, and the Passion conference this year (or last) used LV1 specifically. So much subjectivity in the replies, very little objective feedback. (No... my church doesn't have Waves LV1 at the moment, we mix from an M32 but will be doing Waves Live setup with it soon and plan on looking at the LV1 for the future)
This is the future, But you cant beat the touch and feel of the real thing
True, but you only know that because you've used them. This is a whole new generation of engineers well have never seen a reel of 2" tape, or a Lexicon DDL. Those physical interfaces are going away. I agree with you though.
Hey guys I love the content you're putting out. However I am concerned about this video about the Waves eMotion LV1. I feel like you gave an overly simplified explanation about what LV1 is, how it works, and what you need to get it running. While yes the LV1 software is $1699 you still need a SoundGrid server ($700-$2500), SoundGrid approved network switches, and SoundGrid compatible I/O ($1799-$4000). I'm not saying that LV1 couldn't work for many churches because it's obvious it could, I just feel like people may get the impression that they can buy a computer and $1699 worth of software and replace their audio console which just isn't true. At the same point there are digital consoles on the market that can run without a surface ("console"), Allen&Heath dLive is an example. dLive can run a software controller to control the mix rack which holds the processing and stage I/O. I think it may be worth reviewing this video to see if you can more clearly communicate what is actually going on with Venue's setup, they aren't just running a PC with LV1 on it giving them a 64 channel mixer.
Kyle Thompson thanks for the comment. This video is more of an overview to introduce the software to people like me who have never experienced it previously. Also, to get an idea of what it is like using it FOA in a church. Thanks again and thanks for watching.
... and the Behringer X Air X18 (... I think that's what it's called). It only runs 18 channels but it's a smaller version of the X32 but without the console. It runs off a tablet or a computer. Plus, Behringer makes a "snake" version where you legit throw a box on the stage behind your drum riser (or wherever) plug everything into it and it's legit an X32 without the console that runs on a wireless signal to/from your computer or tablet. I agree with you. There are so many other less expensive options!
If you had a bit of feedback and you needed to quickly nudge down the fader...A screen Can Not be quicker than resting your finger by the fader knob???
I just hope that when you need support, that their TS Dept is better than it is for their plugins. I have a home recording studio with Studio One Pro with close to 70 waves plugins, and yes, too many of them! We use an X32 board at my church where I am also on the WT. Thanks for the video, Woulda liked to see what Waves plugins they include.
Nice MA2 Command Wing in the back.
James Hunt Lighting where?
I see it now
I like mixing with my ears instead of my eyes. Got an iPad for portable mixing.
How abt the feeling of the faders and knobs at ur fingertips!!! 😩🤔. 👆 🎚 🎚 🎚 🕧🕧🕧
Hann_s can't beat that!
I like touch screens for setting a mix but when something goes wrong, I really want some faders to throw.
That would be my fear too. If something starts feeding back, I need to blindly reach for that master fader lol.
@@MixChecks I think the X32 rack has a kill volume button or knob but yeah imagine the ipad software hangs or doesn't load. Don't even start me on Windows haha
such a great sound im shure and yes thats awsome
I like it, but...
Nothing beats the feeeling of the music when you close your eyes and use your fingers...
I cant feel the difference on a flat surface in the dark. Sorry, not for me But great for the "new look".
Have you heard of midi bro???
I love LV1, I use it 6 days a week, every week, but real faders are necessary for a busy mix
Midi have you heard of it?
For the budget I decided to go for a digital Presonus Mark III
I have used alot of various analog and digital consoles. Digital consoles have much so processing power in it and that is awesome.
BUT lack of real faders makes a bad day for me. I love the feel and resolution of long throw faders . I used a Mackie Ipad dock mixer and it was a bad day when the fader jumped to the wrong position. Give me faders or give me death!
Great tech, but what if the pc went wacky for some reason during live show. What happens to this whole system? People who are used to microsoft windows know that not responding is something unavoidable.
this is good and all, i want my SSL
Wish you'd do more in depth on how their on platform is ran into the cat 6 setup to the cat 6 rig in the booth
I would have loved to do that but we were limited on time. Thanks for watching.
@@WorshipLeaderHangout kool
Wait,, why would you need some waves software? Anything that is adjustable using a mouse in your DAW is controllable using a touch screen monitor.
This system at this church has since been replaced with an actual board. I personally could never go this direction. It a cool ideas just not practical.
@@WorshipLeaderHangout interesting. Thanks for the update. Maybe i should go the hardware mix controller
route then. For awhile I was set on the idea that touch screen was the way of the future for mixing.
There has to be a usb interface for at least 1 or 2 faders - i like to ride some mics at my church - other than that!! i love it
Interested in the point to point networking for your remote campuses. Who could I speak with?
What kind of hair product do you use if you don’t mind me asking, it looks shiny and healthy ☺️👍🏻
Shoutout to homeboy with the Thursday tattoo.
Sounds good, doesn't work. I had a mixer which supported iPad remote, and its was TERRIBLE to use. It's nearly impossible to look at the stage and tweak knobs at the same time. Unless the interface has some integrated live cam background like some chat application has on smartphones, this issue remains a huge problem. Same with the touch keyboard on the Lenovo Yogabook, or the TouchBar on the MacBook "Pro".
I'm here listening. Respectfully. But I disagree. What happens when the digitiser breaks?
What kind of monitor touch screen are you using?
Couldn't you just buy a Barringer x32 and download the PC app on a touch screen display? All for just under $1,000?
If you’re watching the stage for visual queues, you want to be able to feel those mute group buttons and faders.
How much does it cost to have a set up like this??
There is still a digital console, just the control surface has changed. "No more snakes, just a Cat6." Not any different from modern digital desks. Configurable screens is no different than modern consoles, which also have touch screens. The argument here is simply "is no faders better than faders?" The answer is no, it's not.
Valuewise it may be. You can get a lot more for the money if you aren't paying for top not moving faders, knobs, and controllers. for X amount of money you gain a ton more options, quaility, and such at a minor loss of fader control.
Well waves http is not secured.
The browser warns that your personal information could be hacked if you proceed to the web site.
Okay thanks
That is hot. I could get used to that.!!
Nice video was gonna get a couple x-touch and ectenders maybe this is the way to go touch screens
odd request here... Nice backdrop wall in this video, vertical purple light bars What is it can you show a close up of wall or what is the manufacture or model#, building studio and I think this looks very nice and would like do do a wall like this Thank You
Thank you. Well as far as the backdrop, I think I got what you are looking for in this video -> th-cam.com/video/8NGn849PmkQ/w-d-xo.html
power goes out takes a while to boot up etc etc... analog gives you instant start when power is back
How often do you have trouble with the power going out?
What type of tower (computer/specs) are they using with the touch screens?
I second this, because you don't want to be running some crappy machine for your front of house mix. Anyway you can find out this info @Worship Leader Hangouts?
Hey Derick. We have all the specs for LV1 setups (including two computers specifically that we highly recommend) on our website here under the Support tab: www.waves.com/mixers-racks/emotion-lv1#tab-support
I still like the tactile feedback with a real mixer. Not to mention the poor logic of, the consumer electronics industry is going this direction so we should. WHAT? We should be doing what works best, not what is 'in'. You can't keep your eyes on the platform AND mix with a touch screen. In fact, I think there is much more research that could be done with a tactile surface with haptic feedback and the like.
Than again, I may be so off the reservation anyway. As I'm trying help to do church, not an alternative night club.
Thinking of going this direction. Will there be a delay between what musicians play and what you hear?
The in/out latency of the system (mic input to speakers) with most processing is 0.8ms, which is extremely low. There are some plugins that can incur some additional latency (usually 1-2ms) but this is still considered very low. For reference, most people cannot perceive latency under 7ms.
Which are the best multi-touch monitors to get? I know there cintiq pro touch dell canvas should be great but can I have just as good a touch experience with cheaper monitors if I don't need pen support?
We've had great success with the Dell P2418 monitors. www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-24-touch-monitor-p2418ht/apd/210-alcs/monitors-monitor-accessories
I really like the GeChic 1503i as a smaller monitor... It's multi-touch and USB powered
www.gechic.com/en-portable-touch-monitor-onlap1503i-overview.html
That is the way to go.. great video bro
BUT HOW did you split it?
I get the enthusiasm but It's kinda like trying to steer a fighter jet with a touch screen. The brain needs more than a pad to sense nuance and physical connection. Maybe I'm behind the times. But I don't think the LV-1 is a console killer. Great addition to the industry. But it's only an addition, not a replacement.
So octword real fader can't be replace
So how much does it cost roughly?
how do they have it set up for stage monitors / in ear mix? Do you know that that set up involves?
Yes, they use a mix bus out to each of their in-ear transmitters just like any other board. However, the mix bus outs are only on the stage boxes.
MM - Mixing monitors with LV1 works the exact same way as any other digital mixer. You have up to a total of 16 stereo mix buses which can be sent out any I/O device that's connected to the network (like analog outputs on a stage box). There are also a few personal monitor mixing systems that can connect directly to LV1 using SoundGrid I/O option cards.
Write me stephenb@waves.com if you'd like more info on this.
Cool setup there. However, no actual afterlife whatsoever.
Thanks for watching
I use the Slate raven mti2
this feels like aflawed comparison, he was talking about no snakes as a pro, most modern digital consoles have had the ability to use stage boxes over ethernet for some time, same with most of the routing options, coming from an analog console these things would be noticeable, but not from most modern digital consoles
"convenient & easier" and sounds worse. He said it best in the video. It's like going from "Discmans to mp3". Sorry but digital desks still aren't there. We're sacrificing quality for convenience.
Nice concept, while it may have it's advantages for a live or FOH situation it lacks the ability to offer the sound signature of an actual console. That applies to DAW controllers as well.
If someone press the wrong button on that thing all your information is gone
Who makes the touch screens?
I believe they were Dell screens
I think it a bit to much tech for a chruch. I think it just makes it harder for people to serve
is this the monitor?www.amazon.com/Dell-P2418HT-23-8-Touch-Monitor/dp/B01NBX1Q2T/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_147_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=XWZNG4DZPN3M7CJ4SNRB. the link shows a different one.
Thanks I’ll correct it
What if there was a power outage?
They use an Arc Reactor. 😉
This hardware runs eMotion. www.tactusdigitalmixing.com/
No thank you. How can you really ride the "faders" with a mouse?
I'm surprise, that's why I'd like to know; "What audio interface will you use for a Church Set-Up? In a case where you need more than 28 input and you want to do without a mixer"
These sorts of installs they usually arent using the kinds of interfaces you'd see in a studio, but more the audio-over-ethernet type systems. Waves have their soundgrid stuff, but theres also stuff like Focusrites Rednet, the various Dante systems, and so on. Its kind of a necessity, as the aim is to reduce long cable runs (Long cables = noise) , and obviously you cant run a hundred meters of USB or Firewire, so Ethernet based systems are used.
@YOU WERE BORN TO SING Um, yes and no. A lot of the digital audio systems for these sorts of thing can actually operate independently of the computer. The computer is just there to control the mixing. (Keep an iPad handy, many of these systems can be controlled by them too, so its a really useful backup) If the computer goes down, it wont stop the music, it'll just mean you have to wait for the damn thing to reboot before you can use the mixer again. Its really a very different sort of system to a DAW where the audio is actually being processed *by* the computer. Well thats the case for most of these.
Its a good stuff but i'm still
'analog man' for life
What happens when the internet is down.
shaqueal bang bang
Not sure. I use an M32. Great question. Thanks for watching.
These require no outside internet connection, just a LAN. The LAN should be reliable assuming you use high quality components.
@@griffin8062 thanks
Welcome to PC having touchscreens for the last 10 years.
Good bye M32!!!! Touch screen is finally here!!! Lol
Imagine if you told people about this as the future 50 years ago, they wouldn't believe you :)
And lose the feel?.. Hell no...
Never.
I like knobs..... NUFF said
Haha. I agree. Thanks for watching anyway.
Tried it and it was an awful experience.
Touch screens and boogers. Not for me. Hahaha
Yeah yeah, lets replace real keyboard ivory keys and guitar strings with touch screen interface. Nuf said.
Haha. Thanks for watching.
Try riding the fader on that sweaty slip slidy screen vs a fader....you are right back in amateur land
You clearly have no idea.
There are many hardware options available from a lot of different manufacturers if you want real faders on it.
@@soundmanstevenz no, he does know what he's talking about, I've mixed my entire life and would never mix without real faders..
*OLD TECH - I have been using a set up like this for years and with better sound quality and more flexibility then ANY MIXING system on the market including this one in this VIDEO! The system I have been using is a [[[ 24 Full Console Replacement ]]] with audio quality that can only be reviled with an entire ANALOG SYSTEM; utilizing ALL the same plugins in have in my recognizing Facility*
...that is my entire Eventide Suite, PSP, Valhalla, Lindell, Brainwork, Sonnox, ETC and i could even use WAVES Suites ( however I do not care for the sound of them ) included and no pops, crashes, slips or otherwise + record the entire show ON THE SAME PC intravenously fed!
#UnLOCKyoURfOOL®
3:29 but also with a digital console you can run everything on data network cables, so no snakes...
Just no!
Great! This accent hahahaha
Rafael Pereira Thanks for watching!