Thank you so much my friend and thank you for helping put this together! It was a true honor and a true please to do this and I greatly thank you. It was amazing fun and so cool to perform
Good idea, or maybe chalk powder as that will cling on its own and probably look better on camera. But still be pretty easy to wash off if you want to.
I heard a lead shot can break an arm through a shield or armor. Not sure if it is from like the best of the best slingers or it was against wicker shields or something. Would be curious to see if anyone could test how much force is being transferred. With a sensor of some sort. Place a pig bone right on the back of a pressed shield tightly. Edit PS. Slings are such an underrated weapon. I wish to see it as an Olympic sport to see what a life long athelete could do! I mean the Baelric Slingers were legendary enough to be reknowned today. They must've been wicked with em. Imagine thousands of slingers raining lead at ya with some suckers in it throwing darts, and shooting arrows. It would have been miserable even if you did have armor.
@@dianapennepacker6854 there are load cells used to measure impact/shock force, but the ones I know of are very small (thus requiring a precise hit on the button) and quite expensive. Easier to cast a ballistic gel arm with bones from a medium game animal inside. Pretty sure you could buy those too, but I guess they don't come cheap.
I'm not sure how much more it would cost, but a good way of recording blunt trauma behind armour is is using modelling clay, which will impression the temporary deflection and show how much it would punch the person wearing it great Vid, sling form looks great!
yes precisly my line of questioning,, even dought the armor or shield will deflect the shot,,, it is still going to be very painfull,,, expecialy on the ribs,,, even with out penetration,,,
the other day a slinger hit me with a piece of lead shot going 120mph. of course my first instinct is to pick it up and read what it says. shockingly, it was actually a very positive and encouraging message. the moral of the story is don't jump to conclusions about people's intentions just because they knocked out 15 of your teeth, broke your jaw and gave you a severe concussion 😌
I shoot guns, I shoot traditional bows, compound bows, I can throw knives, and I'm probably forgetting some. I've been wanting to braid my own sling and learn slinging for a while now! I really need to get on this, it looks awesome and super fun!
"It's a better analogue for what I think a wooden shield would be." Meanwhile real wooden Viking shield = A couple sheets of paper in thickness, basically.
@@dashrendar5320 Depends on the period. Republican period ones, as well as the more universal thyreos, had a planked construction with a reinforcing spine.
viking shields and late roman shields were quite similar :) also round shields do not have uniform thickness. at the edge where the shiled would move the most from the impact, it is quite thin, but at the center, thickness is almost double that of the edges.
Only the edges, and that was for catching the edged weapon. As they work in there is cloth in front of the wood, hide over the cloth, a boss aka shield-buckler to protect the hand from penetration, another layer of wood facing its grains in the opposite direction, and sandwiched between is more cloth, then in front of the hide of the front 1 more sheet of cloth made to be used as a canvis for painting a banner. Compared to most shields historically for their size they were very light weight but they were made with cunning and competence.
@@dashrendar5320 Matthew Amt made a replica of the Kasr el Harit shield, which came out at under 7kg, while Sergio Escudero's version was 4.8kg. The actual shield was made from three layers of wood, each layer 2-3mm thick at the edge, and a little thicker in the centre. Wolfgang Kimmig said it was covered in felt on both sides, but Polybius' description of Roman scuta gives them one layer of leather on the outside (known archaeologically from other finds to be ~1mm thick) and linen on the inside. The most complete scutum is the 3rd century AD example from Dura Europos, is made from 3 layers of wood (the central core being oak) 1.5-2mm thick at the edge. Replicas are generally between 5.5 and 7.5kg, depending on the materials used and assumptions made. Looking at Early Medieval and later medieval shields, 5-7kg seems to have been the general range of weights for shields. Even the Greek aspsis was usually within this range, the heavier examples having a bronze facing and the lighter end having no bronze or only bronze on the rim. Long story short, authentic shields are surprisingly light and thin compared to standard plywood replicas. They're also much more expensive and/or time consuming to make.
See, now this makes me believe even more that Tony Stark would be soup in his Ironman armour after taking hits from Hulk, Thor or Captain America. His regular (non-Vibranium) suits would need serious padding to diffuse the impact from damage. Sure, I guess he has some McGuffin that neutralises the pain, but we joked about in 'Indy in the fridge' so why wouldn't it be the same for Tony. Also, I do think the loose layers are better for taking punches or hammer blows, because it's flexible and spreads out the force. Kinda like diving into a brick wall versus diving into a swimming pool. Another great video! 🦾
if vibranium is stiff enough, it should distribute the force quite well :P i've taken hits in 1.6mm limb plate armour with little padding which in maille would break my bones.
Stiff armor plates are definitely better for taking punches and hammer blows. Force is distributed equally across the plate instead of relying on energy being transformed to heat to distribute force. Nothing can stop something like a hulk sized impact, but on a human scale it is the best we got.
For tracking new damage on shield for each test, you should paint old damage spots with various color code, circle around the hole or into the indentations. i.e.: Red from compound bow, green for 155# bow, and accent color for different tips - white for needle tip, , yellow for bodkin point, etc. Color code your projectile damage, so any new damage you can differentiate from old damage.
It might be worthwhile to invest in a large block of modelling clay as an armor backer, perhaps 20-30 pounds or so. We (collectively) use it in modern soft armor testing for recording backface deformation caused by blunt force because clay doesn't spring back like foam or gelatin does, and clay is decent at recording the penetration depth for edged weapons as well for the same reason. The other neat thing about clay is that once you have a block, you can keep reusing it for quite a while. Even if it air dries between videos, you'd still be able to reconstitute it by pulverizing it and dropping the chunks in a water bucket for a day before remolding the clay into a block by pouring the slurry out into a container of your choice lined with baking paper to prevent sticking.
Good test. I was expecting a little more from the lead, but maybe the biggest difference would be on an unarmored opponent, or when the shot hits an unarmored area.
@@dashrendar5320 That may be the reason lead was used. More than just damage, the consistency of the sling bullets shape and weight could improve accuracy (once the slinger has attuned his throws to it). Don't worry, I can't talk about your accuracy, as I can only consistantly hit the broad side of a barn. Maybe even the narrow side of the barn... if it's a big enough barn, hehe.
lead should deliver more damage. it is the same weight delivered to a more concentrated area. smaller area should also mean longer range, and more consistent accuracy.
He did get it. Right in the Kisser. If you wanted to be able to track individual pellets , as they rebounded, you could get a flour shifter, and this would enable you to quickly put an even and very thin white coating of flour all around your target area. When you made your cast, you would see the mark on the target or background, but then you would also see immediately where the flour had been disturbed. And you would be able to determine the direction and force of the rebound. And quickly sift more flour down to cover the marks, ready for another shot.
I used to play with these slings as a kid and I remember that I used to be able to get torpedo shaped shot to fly straight. The technique I used was on release to pull down across my body at maybe a 45° angle. The action was to try to roll the shot out of the sling imparting a lateral spin. I don’t think I could get as much power as a normal throw with round shot but it was fun to play around with
Holy smokes! That first of two throws at 8 minutes would have deleted the lower part of a person's face! The ranks were definitely going to have to close around where that dude was standing. Ouch. "Tell me about the war, grandpa." *Hands kid block of wood that has "I cannot speak" carved on it.
Just like arrows you need to imagine dozens of guys or more raining shots down on you and your buddies, you might be able to hide under your shields but you're not going anywhere. Hence the Roman tortoise tactic. Cool video 🙂
Just thinking, a cheap and practical way to measure impact force might be pressure measurement film, or pressure sensitive film. Basically a bit of paper that has micro capsules of ink that break within specific ranges of force. No expensive sensor to break, 100% reliable and very easy to setup
RANDOM VIDEO IDEA! clay arrow heads fired in the pit already attached, but the shaft is of green (waterlogged throughout as to prevent Buring) shaft is sticking out and away from the heat.
In the Netherlands these led "balls" were found with thumb prints in them. During a battle they apparently stuck their thumb in the ground, poored led in it, let it cool and shot it. I think it was the Frisians that did this. Not sure though as it's long ago I read about it.
7:04 thank you Dash, I'll keep that in mind the next time I run into British roadmen armed with slings Also, according to the documentary "The Last Stand of the 300", linothorax wasn't just glued/unglued linen, apparently there would also be leather and a thin layer of bronze The doc was made by the History Channel so I dunno how much you can really trust it, but if anybody is able to find the sources they used it'd be a great help to this whole linothorax experiment going on rn
Yeah, that would be crazy. I’m probably gonna do that next time cause I should be able to drill through the lead pretty easy so I’m thinking I might see what I can get.
@dashrendar5320 I get the best buzzing sound from clay spheres because those will spin more randomly than biconical ammo does. I drill the holes using 5mm allen key. Clay shrinks so the actual hole diameter is 4mm. The holes are 10-20mm deep. If you drill all the way through the sound might be much quieter.
Probably the best way to hold your armour samples, shields, or really any other target is held suspended by ratchet straps to immobile objects like a big tree - may want to add a spring as well to add in a bit of easy visual tension control and greater elasticity of the whole system. The core idea is to hold everything from 3? points with fairly good consistently tension and elasticity wise so the energy dissipation potential of the target is as close to consistent as possible, thus really showing the differences between ammunition/weapon in use more. I'd suggest having a man shaped cutout in a solid ply with two of the ratchet straps at the shoulders going sideways and one in the belly to hang a heavy weight off/anchor into the ground, can then attach a layer of sheet of insulation, ballistic gel, foam or whatever between that ply and the flatter test sample or if you need to pad out from the template so the regular armour is more realistically 'worn' (in which case I'd like to see a few 'ribs' perhaps in bent PVC pipe to really hold the armour relatively snugly with that same layer of foam/gel whatever).
@@dashrendar5320 What you do is already of a good quality, and importantly you add in some light-hearted entertainment. So please don't feel you should turn your channel into a more real hard science experimental archaeology channel or put in insane efforts - I'd rather you changed nothing in the methods as long as you keep having so much fun doing it, as that is what really makes it enjoyable to watch.
Lead is soft, so I didn't expect it to be better. The key thing going for it is the ability to pack more pellets in the same bag.. but you are still limited by weight. And economically stones are much cheaper than lead.
@@dashrendar5320 exactly. It would give some weighty resistance, but still have some yield, similar to a torso. Like you said cheap and easy. A bag of mulch could also suffice.
Friend, thanks for the video! You still need to use a crossbow. In the video, you can pierce armor from crossbows, as well as compare modern and medieval crossbows and do a lot more with them, I think you can figure out what exactly)) I myself have been shooting only with a bow for about 6 years, but recently I started shooting with a crossbow and I really liked it. I made a medieval crossbow and bought a modern crossbow.
i come from the gun side of youtube and its so funny this feels like medieval guntube, i like it a lot 😃 a foam torso or something would maybe help ur testresults tho:)
Haha it seem so have fallen a bit into that category but I love it as well haha. It’s like my own little niche. Also yeah I think a foam torso would be good
Great stuff man. If you ever need a second slinger for a future testing , like maybe, what happens when two stones hit armor at the same time... hit me up! LOL :) Also, I want to get a slinging competition going sometime in the spring, I'm still gauging interest, but if you'd be interested please let me know.
You can paint your projectiles red or orange with spray paint or nail polish. This would make them easier to visually track them on the vidio. It also maks them easier to find .
That’s a great idea. A lot of people were very helpful on this video so I will be sure to incorporate the paint and a lot of people also suggested chalk
My last sling broke, so I made another. This time I did so good that I didn't need to patch the split in the middle so that means I sized it correctly. It was able to be used to throw both smaller and bigger rocks than the last one. It needed to be broken in. Didn't get the chance. Someone got embarrassed on my behalf because of something I was proud of, and I got pissed off, and broke the sling. You would have to understand that where I come from the whole point of our society is that we don't have a way to vent steam when stressed and the idea is we slowly go mad and cause chaos, and I would rather break my own things than someone else's things or hurt people. So I just need to finish repairing the new sling.
One thing worth noting is that your javelin is more in the size category of a dual-purpose spear. You couldn't actually carry a stack of 4-7 of those in your hand. Javelins of the period tended to have smaller heads and only ~1.8mm shafts. Obviously throwable dual-purpose spears were used a lot too, depending on time and culture, but they are their own thing.
I am curious what the effects of moving to a longer range is. When you are slinging at the armor, you are in what looks like 'pilum range'. Meaning as you get the momentum up on the sling you are having pilums thrown at your face. Thus the slingers would need to be back further so they can work. Also give us more ground execution tests!!!
I think the tests would benefit a lot from a gel torso. Especially with the quilt but also the glued linen; whats behind it makes all the difference; if there is no mass behind it the cloth will just be dragged along; but put something too hard behind it and it also kinda renders most test pointless. Getting at least a little close to the right range for whats behind the armor really does make all the difference.
Fully agree. I am still getting everything together before I actually test anymore melee weapons against the armor. I want to make sure it’s a decent analog at least
perhaps a specifically calibrated sling shot might get you fairly close to the correct speed and spin but with much greater accuracy. granted, I'm sure you're having a blast as is, and its all for fun anyway. I just couldnt stop that part of my brain from chiming in lol.
Haha yeah all about the fun for sure. I have a few different lengths of sling and different materials so with slings it’s just all About constant practice
I find my accuracy with the sling suffers the more I rotate before launch. I get the most reliable shots, both in power and accuracy with a single rotation. Though my projectile is one of those rubber dog balls. My neighbours never bring them back though.
Hahaha that’s awesome. I can hang out with the side rotation all day because In reality I only rotate it once for the throw. The side spinning is just keeping the projectile in the sling. But each their own for sure
About glued vs quilted I remember a test from toad’s workshop, were a similar things happened I think it was test for a glue for gambesons or something like this
Great vid man! Love the breakdown and testing. It makes me wonder about a crossing of cultures. What if.. a sling, could throw a shuriken! Slinging a throwing star sounds devastating! Did you start the IceWind Dale trilogy yet? Its epic-ness cannot be understated. Plus there are 6-7 connected trilogy tales! All epic, centered around the best ranger ever written.
Thanks so much. That would be crazy to see. I have never thought of that but would be an interesting amalgamation. I just finished my last Warhammer book and I’m gonna start the audiobook for the Dale trilogy tomorrow! I will let you know how it goes
@dashrendar5320 hell ya I'm there. Similar with the forgotten realms books. I'm nearly finished with all 70. But the 24 drizzt books have been my favorite. They're was no better ranger then drizzt with a blade. I'll start the horus heresy books first with Warhammer. Thanks for the tip.
just spitballing here, but maybe you could dust the projectile with colored chalk? it would make it easier to find your mark. i've never used one of these, so maybe the chalk would drag instead of slipping out easily though. cool video btw.
Just an idea for you to possibly test. Lloyd from Lindybeige and I had a rather long discussion, first as to whether he had a secret brother in Norway who was a Heavy Metal musician, (see Leo Morrachioli, Frog Leap Studios, House of the Rising Sun cover) but second, that it's possible that ancient soldiers/slingers used fired clay bullets for their slings. Since lead and stone bullets could be difficult to source and it was known that regular dried clay bullets had been used for simple thing like hunting small game, Lloyd and I discussed the possibility of armies making fired clay bullets for practice, and foraging. Just something that you might find interesting.
Slings are awesome, no doubt about it. Slings declined in battle use from the Bronze to Iron Age for many good reasons. Could Slingers do what archers did at Carrhae or Agincourt? Africa's Big Five (Elephant, Rhino, Cape Buff, Lion, and Leopard) have been taken (messily) with bow and arrow. As well as Polar, Brown/Grizzly bears. Try it with sling and stone. Heck, try deer hunting with a sling and get back to us.
I truly can’t say feel certain at all. They fell out of favor for many reasons. But could they have Competed with bows that had 100s of years of technological advancement I solid say most likely not, but they can indeed Hold their own
I wonder if the sling weight (like super light modern material) would affect speed, the same way a bow limb affects arrow speed. Paracord and fishing line would be examples of light materials.
Their can't be any debate about glue vs sewn. Manuscripts exist that explain the armor became easier to move in as it warmed up, which happens to match rabbit glue and fish glue(most common type of glue used in ancient times) Sewn armor doesn't become easier to move in as it warms up to body temp.
All "I Know" as a Black Powder muzzle loading enthusiast who poured my 1st lead cast iron soil pipe jiont about age 10? in the early 70's still casting lead. There IS A REASON bullets are Lead and "Plumbers" are plumbers. As a "David" I never could master the Sling, I tried. Stuck with Archery, fire arms, or blades
War slingers could use rocks weighing 500 grams with a war sling(almost touching the ground) it doesn't even need to penetrate at that point, block with a shield, break your arm, hit you in the chest, destroy your bones/organs... no penetration needed.
Of course the terrifying thing about the sling is the volume of fire they can lay down. A couple might glance of armour but any one of the bullets might kill or at the very least put someone out of action for the battle or longer. I'd be interested to see the same video in a couple of years to see how much of an improvement there is in your accuracy and power generation. Obviously I know you can't go full on sphendonetes for that time but you will still improve.
@@dashrendar5320crazy to think. Need to get your kids out there with a loaf of bread on a stick. xD I'm really looking forward to my boys being old enough to show how to do this stuff, if they get into it they will probably be better than me before they reach secondary school! 😅
Look up Joerg Sprave's The Slingshot Channel. He was approached by archeologists excavating a Scottish hill fort. They found buckets of lead sling shot with a 4 or 5 mm holes drilled into the shot, but not through. The fort was besieged by Romans who used the shot. The hole creates a freakish whistle when flung. Imagine the effects of 100s and 100s of these screamers raining down on you. Joerg duplicated the shot and tried it out. Must watch.
Yes I have heard about that actually my friend, truly terrifying to behold. I am actually gonna try that out now that I have the lead. I have always been curious about that
Very interesting video. By the way, why don't you use clay bullets? This will allow you to get a projectile of standardized shape and weight. This will greatly simplify training, in comparison with stone bullets. Also, if you dip the bullet in turmeric powder before throwing, the impact point will be much more visible. There are all sorts of powder dyes that are cheap and biodegradable. It can be very interesting to watch on video. Also, if you make clay bullets with a surface similar to a golf ball, you can get greater flight speed and range.
All excellent suggestions my friend! I have never taken the time to make clay bullets but would be a fun build and project to do for sure. But I really like the idea of the powers
@@dashrendar5320I recently watched Todd's video about fire arrows. It made me think that using powder on bullets is a good idea. Also, if you make a clay bullet, you can hollow it out and put lime powder inside. Or something like that. It's interesting how they used that in the past... You don't have to make your own clay bullets. There are plenty of clubs for people who like to make pottery. You can just ask them to help you with the process or just order ready-made bullets.
it must be noted that your test pieces are not under tension, the reason linothorax and gambeson are effective is because it 'encases', it isn't a good test to use a small piece. a gambeson would not be pushed into the body, it would limit penetration. the linothorax is about damage mitigation against thrusts, those using it were mostly fighting in phalanx, a pushing battle, the idea being to shove the opposing force off the field.. homer notes the kill shots being thrusts to the neck and groin, not to centre mass. there is a reason gambesons stayed in use well into the high middle ages, as long as it is tight on the body, it works well against thrusts, be it sword or spear. as for measuring your sling impacts, there is a device for measuring bite force that may be re-engineered to measure impact force. they have been around since the 1970s and were developed to measure shark bite forces. the amount the material deforms gives pounds per square inch.
Lead’s real advantage is extra range, and penetration on unarmoured parts of the body. But the extra range is quite significant. I get 170-200 meters with good stones. And 300-350 meters with lead. So yeah, that’s why they used it , i think, to poke those puny bowmen for example out of their reach, and surprise infantry, with shields down, thinking they’re out of reach😂
Very interesting. I would of thought because led is abit more softer than rock that it wouldnt be as destructive. Which makes me think why they used led shot over smoothed out rock, or would the rock just break up in the mussle of rifle. Obviously your doing sling, im just musing on the reasons behind the material they used back then.
The rocks will break over time, but it it’s a super solid dense river rock they tend to hold up just fine. Lead is much easier to shape for sure so you a more universal shot
roughly plus or minus about 200 grains those projectiles weight about 1200 to 1400 grains for those trying to quantify with US ballistics measurments. 5 ozs would be about 2200 grains the spear only confirms why Romans threw pilums rather than used them as spears. velocity kills.
The results dont surprise me, the glued linen will resist blugeoning damage as the impact is dispersed over all of the surface, but its weakness is the focused damage of piercing, the quilted won't really help with blugeoning as it cant disperse the impact but will bind up the piercing somewhat by slowing it down, after all thats what gambeson is. I dont think your tests were flawed
Maximus Gainacus!! 🤣 Legendary!
What an amazing test, by an amazing athlete. Now I can't wait for the blade tests.
Thank you so much my friend and thank you for helping put this together! It was a true honor and a true please to do this and I greatly thank you. It was amazing fun and so cool to perform
@@dashrendar5320 Any time brother!
"We have been trying to reach you about your chariot's extended warranty"
Hahaha winner winner! That gave me a good laugh
😂😂😂 good one 😂
Here is your upvote
Cover the shield with white paper, a thin layer. No added resistance, but the impact point becomes easily spotted. Other than that... you're amazing!
Oh man great call! Thanks so much for that my friend, greatly appreciate the feedback and the kind words
Good idea, or maybe chalk powder as that will cling on its own and probably look better on camera. But still be pretty easy to wash off if you want to.
I heard a lead shot can break an arm through a shield or armor.
Not sure if it is from like the best of the best slingers or it was against wicker shields or something. Would be curious to see if anyone could test how much force is being transferred. With a sensor of some sort.
Place a pig bone right on the back of a pressed shield tightly.
Edit PS. Slings are such an underrated weapon. I wish to see it as an Olympic sport to see what a life long athelete could do!
I mean the Baelric Slingers were legendary enough to be reknowned today. They must've been wicked with em.
Imagine thousands of slingers raining lead at ya with some suckers in it throwing darts, and shooting arrows. It would have been miserable even if you did have armor.
@@dianapennepacker6854 there are load cells used to measure impact/shock force, but the ones I know of are very small (thus requiring a precise hit on the button) and quite expensive.
Easier to cast a ballistic gel arm with bones from a medium game animal inside.
Pretty sure you could buy those too, but I guess they don't come cheap.
I'm not sure how much more it would cost, but a good way of recording blunt trauma behind armour is is using modelling clay, which will impression the temporary deflection and show how much it would punch the person wearing it
great Vid, sling form looks great!
Oh that’s a great idea!! Thanks for that man, solid way to do it. I will incorporate that next time for sure
yes precisly my line of questioning,, even dought the armor or shield will deflect the shot,,, it is still going to be very painfull,,, expecialy on the ribs,,, even with out penetration,,,
What you have described is called back face deformation
@dashrendar5320
Steal the kids playdough.
NIJ uses clay to test backface deformation on body armor. It's only allowed to push a certain amount and still be rated for the caliber.
Marking ordnance with snarky sayings is a great morale builder.
Indeed haha. Goes back as far as man could write honestly 😂
@@gozer87 Snarky Ordinance sounds like an ancient punk band
@@grayshadow1856and now I'm trying to picture Sabaton sounding pink.
@@dashrendar5320we really haven’t changed, drawing peens as graffiti and the Viking writing “Erick was here” on a landmark
Always great to see more sling content!
Glad you enjoy it! Always a blast to do for sure
We passed around notes in class, our ancestors hurled around lead shot with insults (at mach Jesus). We’re not the same.
😂😂😂😂
the other day a slinger hit me with a piece of lead shot going 120mph. of course my first instinct is to pick it up and read what it says. shockingly, it was actually a very positive and encouraging message. the moral of the story is don't jump to conclusions about people's intentions just because they knocked out 15 of your teeth, broke your jaw and gave you a severe concussion 😌
Hahahaa that comment made my day
Always perfect timing with these
Awesome! Hope you enjoy!
I shoot guns, I shoot traditional bows, compound bows, I can throw knives, and I'm probably forgetting some. I've been wanting to braid my own sling and learn slinging for a while now! I really need to get on this, it looks awesome and super fun!
It’s an absolute blast my friend! Lots of patience
And lots of room needed to practice though haha
"It's a better analogue for what I think a wooden shield would be."
Meanwhile real wooden Viking shield = A couple sheets of paper in thickness, basically.
Haha I was referring more to a Roman shield, which were heavy duty and had lots of layers of wood…I could have been more clear though
@@dashrendar5320 Depends on the period. Republican period ones, as well as the more universal thyreos, had a planked construction with a reinforcing spine.
viking shields and late roman shields were quite similar :) also round shields do not have uniform thickness. at the edge where the shiled would move the most from the impact, it is quite thin, but at the center, thickness is almost double that of the edges.
Only the edges, and that was for catching the edged weapon. As they work in there is cloth in front of the wood, hide over the cloth, a boss aka shield-buckler to protect the hand from penetration, another layer of wood facing its grains in the opposite direction, and sandwiched between is more cloth, then in front of the hide of the front 1 more sheet of cloth made to be used as a canvis for painting a banner.
Compared to most shields historically for their size they were very light weight but they were made with cunning and competence.
@@dashrendar5320 Matthew Amt made a replica of the Kasr el Harit shield, which came out at under 7kg, while Sergio Escudero's version was 4.8kg.
The actual shield was made from three layers of wood, each layer 2-3mm thick at the edge, and a little thicker in the centre. Wolfgang Kimmig said it was covered in felt on both sides, but Polybius' description of Roman scuta gives them one layer of leather on the outside (known archaeologically from other finds to be ~1mm thick) and linen on the inside.
The most complete scutum is the 3rd century AD example from Dura Europos, is made from 3 layers of wood (the central core being oak) 1.5-2mm thick at the edge. Replicas are generally between 5.5 and 7.5kg, depending on the materials used and assumptions made.
Looking at Early Medieval and later medieval shields, 5-7kg seems to have been the general range of weights for shields. Even the Greek aspsis was usually within this range, the heavier examples having a bronze facing and the lighter end having no bronze or only bronze on the rim.
Long story short, authentic shields are surprisingly light and thin compared to standard plywood replicas. They're also much more expensive and/or time consuming to make.
See, now this makes me believe even more that Tony Stark would be soup in his Ironman armour after taking hits from Hulk, Thor or Captain America. His regular (non-Vibranium) suits would need serious padding to diffuse the impact from damage. Sure, I guess he has some McGuffin that neutralises the pain, but we joked about in 'Indy in the fridge' so why wouldn't it be the same for Tony.
Also, I do think the loose layers are better for taking punches or hammer blows, because it's flexible and spreads out the force. Kinda like diving into a brick wall versus diving into a swimming pool. Another great video! 🦾
Haha yeah I agree that he would be absolutely mush 😂😂 also so glad you enjoyed it, was a super fun video
if vibranium is stiff enough, it should distribute the force quite well :P i've taken hits in 1.6mm limb plate armour with little padding which in maille would break my bones.
Stiff armor plates are definitely better for taking punches and hammer blows. Force is distributed equally across the plate instead of relying on energy being transformed to heat to distribute force. Nothing can stop something like a hulk sized impact, but on a human scale it is the best we got.
For tracking new damage on shield for each test, you should paint old damage spots with various color code, circle around the hole or into the indentations. i.e.: Red from compound bow, green for 155# bow, and accent color for different tips - white for needle tip, , yellow for bodkin point, etc. Color code your projectile damage, so any new damage you can differentiate from old damage.
Yeah I am gonna bet a bit more organized haha. Been running fast and loose but I need to lock it down a little bit, great suggestions
It might be worthwhile to invest in a large block of modelling clay as an armor backer, perhaps 20-30 pounds or so. We (collectively) use it in modern soft armor testing for recording backface deformation caused by blunt force because clay doesn't spring back like foam or gelatin does, and clay is decent at recording the penetration depth for edged weapons as well for the same reason. The other neat thing about clay is that once you have a block, you can keep reusing it for quite a while. Even if it air dries between videos, you'd still be able to reconstitute it by pulverizing it and dropping the chunks in a water bucket for a day before remolding the clay into a block by pouring the slurry out into a container of your choice lined with baking paper to prevent sticking.
Thank you for that. I actually had a few people suggest that and it’s really a brilliant idea.I will make sure to incorporate that in future videos
He might need a fair deal more than 30lbs to have it behind a decent bit of the armor without being really thin. Probably 50lbs of it might be enough.
@@Specter_1125 I'm sure he'll find a satisfactory solution.
The Romans also used to stick their thumb in the sand on a beach and fill the hole with lead.
Very quick way of making ammo on the fly
They were certainly always the kings of work smarter not harder
Good test. I was expecting a little more from the lead, but maybe the biggest difference would be on an unarmored opponent, or when the shot hits an unarmored area.
I think yes but also I think it’s a skill issue. I have never used lead before and I think I need to refine my throw to add more speed and power
@@dashrendar5320 That may be the reason lead was used. More than just damage, the consistency of the sling bullets shape and weight could improve accuracy (once the slinger has attuned his throws to it).
Don't worry, I can't talk about your accuracy, as I can only consistantly hit the broad side of a barn. Maybe even the narrow side of the barn... if it's a big enough barn, hehe.
lead should deliver more damage. it is the same weight delivered to a more concentrated area. smaller area should also mean longer range, and more consistent accuracy.
Haha I feel you there my friend! Took a long time for me to even learn to get it to even go straight 😂
@@GUNNER67akaKelt Look on it as being able to hit a platoon sized target...
I love how he got the most goofy part of history right on writing foul things on projectiles traveling at Mach jesus
Good tests. Respect for being willing to dent your armour.
Thanks my dude, it’s got some character now for sure haha
I did, I really did, I enjoyed that. Thank you!
Happy you did my friend 💪🪨
He did get it. Right in the Kisser.
If you wanted to be able to track individual pellets , as they rebounded, you could get a flour shifter, and this would enable you to quickly put an even and very thin white coating of flour all around your target area.
When you made your cast, you would see the mark on the target or background,
but then you would also see immediately where the flour had been disturbed. And you would be able to determine the direction and force of the rebound.
And quickly sift more flour down to cover the marks, ready for another shot.
Ah excellent call! Very helpful thank you my friend
Future video ideas, sling vs: accordion, Cybertruck, bouncy castle, animatronic Santa, weather balloon filled with mayonnaise
Hahaha I am game for all of those 😂😂
I used to play with these slings as a kid and I remember that I used to be able to get torpedo shaped shot to fly straight. The technique I used was on release to pull down across my body at maybe a 45° angle. The action was to try to roll the shot out of the sling imparting a lateral spin. I don’t think I could get as much power as a normal throw with round shot but it was fun to play around with
Holy smokes! That first of two throws at 8 minutes would have deleted the lower part of a person's face! The ranks were definitely going to have to close around where that dude was standing. Ouch. "Tell me about the war, grandpa." *Hands kid block of wood that has "I cannot speak" carved on it.
Hahahahahaah oh man that had a backstory and a conclusion 😂
Just like arrows you need to imagine dozens of guys or more raining shots down on you and your buddies, you might be able to hide under your shields but you're not going anywhere. Hence the Roman tortoise tactic. Cool video 🙂
Yeah for sure it’s all about the mass fire, hundreds of those things flying through the air would really make you just drop
Always an awesome day when you upload buddy😁 Love the sling stuff. Love from Australia😁
Always glad you enjoy it my Australian friend! The sling is always fun to get and and make some videos with
Very good! Keep in mind if it was easy to penetrate a shield nobody would have bothered with them. 😮
Haha truer words never spoken…
Just thinking, a cheap and practical way to measure impact force might be pressure measurement film, or pressure sensitive film. Basically a bit of paper that has micro capsules of ink that break within specific ranges of force. No expensive sensor to break, 100% reliable and very easy to setup
Oh good call man! I will look into that, I have heard about that stuff but completely forgot about it, would be awesome to incorporate
It would be really cool if you had some Tungston shot for the sling. Considering how heavy it is.
Yeah that would legit be very fun to see!
I love this channel. It is the correctness of nerdy and manly.
Haha the golden ratio I strive for
RANDOM VIDEO IDEA! clay arrow heads fired in the pit already attached, but the shaft is of green (waterlogged throughout as to prevent Buring) shaft is sticking out and away from the heat.
Hmm that’s a pretty cool idea..I would need to
See how that works out on paper
8:03 Throat shot with a sling sounds one of the most painful besides like the obvious ones for example 👁️, or 🏀🏈⚾️⚽️. Much love from Texas 👋🤠
Dude I can only imagine….the throat would be so bad…just like give enough time to reflect on how horrible your situation is
The precision you have with so many weapons is impressive. Wish you lived close by. 😅
Thank you kindly my friend! Greatly appreciate it, lots of outdated skills here 😂😂
I would say the glue one seem like a plate armor style as the one stitch together is like a ring mail. Two opposite way to protect yourself.
Yeah that’s true: there is a lot of debate about how it was used I am not smart enough to say for sure 😂
Girlfriend: he's never home. i bet he's checking out other women right now.
Him:
Hahahaha why my wife never has to worry about me…”where is my husband….oh there is…playing dress up in the back yard…”
@@dashrendar5320So.... when you told her you were out "slinging" she understood.
@@JugglesGrenadeshahahaa that’s a winner of a comment right there 😂
ANCIENT SCIENCE, Let’s GOOOO 🎉🎉🎉
Heck yes!!
In the Netherlands these led "balls" were found with thumb prints in them.
During a battle they apparently stuck their thumb in the ground, poored led in it, let it cool and shot it.
I think it was the Frisians that did this. Not sure though as it's long ago I read about it.
I remember reading about that too. I forget exactly who is in reference to, but it’s a really cool little snippet of history
7:04 thank you Dash, I'll keep that in mind the next time I run into British roadmen armed with slings
Also, according to the documentary "The Last Stand of the 300", linothorax wasn't just glued/unglued linen, apparently there would also be leather and a thin layer of bronze
The doc was made by the History Channel so I dunno how much you can really trust it, but if anybody is able to find the sources they used it'd be a great help to this whole linothorax experiment going on rn
You need to invite Metatron to come over to your ranch. He’s a nice chap, would love your experiments and it’d be an interesting collaboration to see.
Haha that would be fun for sure, I think he is a bit far away though 😂 but yeah he has such amazing encyclopedic knowledge
Loved it. I have heard that lead was often drilled out so it whistled in the air. Imagine the sound of that
Yeah, that would be crazy. I’m probably gonna do that next time cause I should be able to drill through the lead pretty easy so I’m thinking I might see what I can get.
@dashrendar5320
I get the best buzzing sound from clay spheres because those will spin more randomly than biconical ammo does. I drill the holes using 5mm allen key. Clay shrinks so the actual hole diameter is 4mm. The holes are 10-20mm deep. If you drill all the way through the sound might be much quieter.
Thanks man! I will try some variables to see what does best but appreciate you putting out your results so I can learn from them 💪🪨
Pushing the envelope again. Excellent video!
Thank you as always my friend 😁
Great video! Enjoyed this while munching on some rotisserie chicken and spinach. Looking forward to the next vid!
Awesome! Never a bad day to watch a fun video snd have some chicken and spinach
Probably the best way to hold your armour samples, shields, or really any other target is held suspended by ratchet straps to immobile objects like a big tree - may want to add a spring as well to add in a bit of easy visual tension control and greater elasticity of the whole system. The core idea is to hold everything from 3? points with fairly good consistently tension and elasticity wise so the energy dissipation potential of the target is as close to consistent as possible, thus really showing the differences between ammunition/weapon in use more.
I'd suggest having a man shaped cutout in a solid ply with two of the ratchet straps at the shoulders going sideways and one in the belly to hang a heavy weight off/anchor into the ground, can then attach a layer of sheet of insulation, ballistic gel, foam or whatever between that ply and the flatter test sample or if you need to pad out from the template so the regular armour is more realistically 'worn' (in which case I'd like to see a few 'ribs' perhaps in bent PVC pipe to really hold the armour relatively snugly with that same layer of foam/gel whatever).
Thanks man! Yeah i am still learning so I really appreciate the input
@@dashrendar5320 What you do is already of a good quality, and importantly you add in some light-hearted entertainment. So please don't feel you should turn your channel into a more real hard science experimental archaeology channel or put in insane efforts - I'd rather you changed nothing in the methods as long as you keep having so much fun doing it, as that is what really makes it enjoyable to watch.
Thank you! That is ver kind of you to say and I am so glad you enjoy it
Yes finally, this is what i waiting for 🗣💥
Yes! It was a ton of fun! Might try drilling a hole for whistling shot next
This is a great channel
Thank you my friend. I truly appreciate that
Lead is soft, so I didn't expect it to be better. The key thing going for it is the ability to pack more pellets in the same bag.. but you are still limited by weight. And economically stones are much cheaper than lead.
Very true, range is also superior but for logistics is much more efficient as well
Fuckin sweet new historical weapon video. Nice.
Hope you enjoy my friend!
My suggestion for a good target backer would be a sand bag, or bag of soil. joerg Sprave has used that in the past and called it a "dirt bag!".
Ah good call. Cheap and easy
@@dashrendar5320 exactly. It would give some weighty resistance, but still have some yield, similar to a torso. Like you said cheap and easy. A bag of mulch could also suffice.
Friend, thanks for the video! You still need to use a crossbow. In the video, you can pierce armor from crossbows, as well as compare modern and medieval crossbows and do a lot more with them, I think you can figure out what exactly)) I myself have been shooting only with a bow for about 6 years, but recently I started shooting with a crossbow and I really liked it. I made a medieval crossbow and bought a modern crossbow.
Working on that actually. Talking to a friend who may keep me use a solid goats foot crossbow
i come from the gun side of youtube and its so funny this feels like medieval guntube, i like it a lot 😃 a foam torso or something would maybe help ur testresults tho:)
Haha it seem so have fallen a bit into that category but I love it as well haha. It’s like my own little niche. Also yeah I think a foam torso would be good
Great stuff man.
If you ever need a second slinger for a future testing , like maybe, what happens when two stones hit armor at the same time... hit me up! LOL :)
Also, I want to get a slinging competition going sometime in the spring, I'm still gauging interest, but if you'd be interested please let me know.
Thanks man so glad you enjoyed it! Maybe one day would be super cool to do 💪🪨
Last laptop breaks + modern demand for private information in order to activate new laptop = new profile and artifically produced new subscriber.
Haha wooo!! Gaming the system
@@dashrendar5320 Well if big tec don't like it its their own bitch ass whore fault.
I love the weapon tests!
Glad you enjoy it my friend
You can paint your projectiles red or orange with spray paint or nail polish. This would make them easier to visually track them on the vidio. It also maks them easier to find .
That’s a great idea. A lot of people were very helpful on this video so I will be sure to incorporate the paint and a lot of people also suggested chalk
My last sling broke, so I made another. This time I did so good that I didn't need to patch the split in the middle so that means I sized it correctly. It was able to be used to throw both smaller and bigger rocks than the last one. It needed to be broken in.
Didn't get the chance. Someone got embarrassed on my behalf because of something I was proud of, and I got pissed off, and broke the sling.
You would have to understand that where I come from the whole point of our society is that we don't have a way to vent steam when stressed and the idea is we slowly go mad and cause chaos, and I would rather break my own things than someone else's things or hurt people.
So I just need to finish repairing the new sling.
Man now I want to see this versus the riot shield material
Haha that will be in the next few weeks for sure
Been waiting for this...
💪🪨
Don't feel bad, the 100lb compound is within usability of far more people than the 130lb'er, the latter is a monster that takes one to draw it :P
Hahaha indeed…I don’t really mind I just like having fun with it 😂
One thing worth noting is that your javelin is more in the size category of a dual-purpose spear. You couldn't actually carry a stack of 4-7 of those in your hand.
Javelins of the period tended to have smaller heads and only ~1.8mm shafts. Obviously throwable dual-purpose spears were used a lot too, depending on time and culture, but they are their own thing.
Yes very true, I want to get an actual javelin soon but have not made the time yet
I am curious what the effects of moving to a longer range is. When you are slinging at the armor, you are in what looks like 'pilum range'. Meaning as you get the momentum up on the sling you are having pilums thrown at your face. Thus the slingers would need to be back further so they can work.
Also give us more ground execution tests!!!
True true. That would be an interesting video to explore in more depth
Awesome video bro!
Thanks my dude ! So glad you enjoyed it
I think the tests would benefit a lot from a gel torso. Especially with the quilt but also the glued linen; whats behind it makes all the difference; if there is no mass behind it the cloth will just be dragged along; but put something too hard behind it and it also kinda renders most test pointless. Getting at least a little close to the right range for whats behind the armor really does make all the difference.
Fully agree. I am still getting everything together before I actually test anymore melee weapons against the armor. I want to make sure it’s a decent analog at least
perhaps a specifically calibrated sling shot might get you fairly close to the correct speed and spin but with much greater accuracy.
granted, I'm sure you're having a blast as is, and its all for fun anyway. I just couldnt stop that part of my brain from chiming in lol.
Haha yeah all about the fun for sure. I have a few different lengths of sling and different materials so with slings it’s just all
About constant practice
Impressive skills!
Thank you kindly my friend
@@dashrendar5320 Thank you for sharing friend!
I find my accuracy with the sling suffers the more I rotate before launch. I get the most reliable shots, both in power and accuracy with a single rotation. Though my projectile is one of those rubber dog balls. My neighbours never bring them back though.
Hahaha that’s awesome. I can hang out with the side rotation all day because In reality I only rotate it once for the throw. The side spinning is just keeping the projectile in the sling. But each their own for sure
About glued vs quilted I remember a test from toad’s workshop, were a similar things happened I think it was test for a glue for gambesons or something like this
Yeah, I was kind of crazy to see I still think my testing set up was a little off but it was for sure surprising In the moment
If you were marching into war and had to choose a single size/weight of lead shot to carry, what size would you bring?
Man I think 4 or 5 oz. I usually throw rock that size and I feel like that little bit of extra weight helps me Throw faster
Great vid man! Love the breakdown and testing. It makes me wonder about a crossing of cultures. What if.. a sling, could throw a shuriken! Slinging a throwing star sounds devastating!
Did you start the IceWind Dale trilogy yet? Its epic-ness cannot be understated. Plus there are 6-7 connected trilogy tales! All epic, centered around the best ranger ever written.
Thanks so much. That would be crazy to see. I have never thought of that but would be an interesting amalgamation. I just finished my last Warhammer book and I’m gonna start the audiobook for the Dale trilogy tomorrow! I will let you know how it goes
@dashrendar5320 how was Warhammer? I'm ready for a new series.
Man thee are like 700 books haha. But the “Horus heresy” is a good series and a great start
@dashrendar5320 hell ya I'm there. Similar with the forgotten realms books. I'm nearly finished with all 70. But the 24 drizzt books have been my favorite. They're was no better ranger then drizzt with a blade. I'll start the horus heresy books first with Warhammer. Thanks for the tip.
Try using ballistic gel, usung the gel skeleton to see impact, penetration, and impact shock test comparison.
just spitballing here, but maybe you could dust the projectile with colored chalk? it would make it easier to find your mark.
i've never used one of these, so maybe the chalk would drag instead of slipping out easily though.
cool video btw.
Yeah, I actually had a few people suggest that it’s a great idea. Actually, I will be sure to incorporate it next sling video
Just checking on all the ladies to make sure they made it. With all the talk of thrusting and depth I was growing concerned. 😂
Alright haha that legit made me laugh out loud 😂😂 well done sir
i dont know when mach jesus entered the lexicon i know its been kicking around for a bit but its such a great unit of measure
It really does carry so much weight haha. It just sounds incredibly fast
Just an idea for you to possibly test. Lloyd from Lindybeige and I had a rather long discussion, first as to whether he had a secret brother in Norway who was a Heavy Metal musician, (see Leo Morrachioli, Frog Leap Studios, House of the Rising Sun cover) but second, that it's possible that ancient soldiers/slingers used fired clay bullets for their slings. Since lead and stone bullets could be difficult to source and it was known that regular dried clay bullets had been used for simple thing like hunting small game, Lloyd and I discussed the possibility of armies making fired clay bullets for practice, and foraging.
Just something that you might find interesting.
Mashallah Tabarkallah thank you for sharing 🎉
Slings are awesome, no doubt about it. Slings declined in battle use from the Bronze to Iron Age for many good reasons. Could Slingers do what archers did at Carrhae or Agincourt? Africa's Big Five (Elephant, Rhino, Cape Buff, Lion, and Leopard) have been taken (messily) with bow and arrow. As well as Polar, Brown/Grizzly bears. Try it with sling and stone. Heck, try deer hunting with a sling and get back to us.
I truly can’t say feel certain at all. They fell out of favor for many reasons. But could they have
Competed with bows that had 100s of years of technological advancement I solid say most likely not, but they can indeed
Hold their own
Loving that skit!
Haha thanks my dude
I wonder if the sling weight (like super light modern material) would affect speed, the same way a bow limb affects arrow speed.
Paracord and fishing line would be examples of light materials.
I'm not an aerodynamic engineer but wouldn't a sphere of lead be the best shape for overall distance and accuracy?
Their can't be any debate about glue vs sewn.
Manuscripts exist that explain the armor became easier to move in as it warmed up, which happens to match rabbit glue and fish glue(most common type of glue used in ancient times)
Sewn armor doesn't become easier to move in as it warms up to body temp.
I kinda wanna see if a blacksmith can chisel "Oh deer" or "Buck this!" on one of my broadheads now.
If you do let me know haha. That would be hilarious
Acid etch and stain maybe?
All "I Know" as a Black Powder muzzle loading enthusiast who poured my 1st lead cast iron soil pipe jiont about age 10? in the early 70's still casting lead. There IS A REASON bullets are Lead and "Plumbers" are plumbers.
As a "David" I never could master the Sling, I tried. Stuck with Archery, fire arms, or blades
Meassuring oz in 2024?! Apart from that, great vid.
Hahahaha what can I say, I am a sucker the classics
Pro tip. Use chalk to mark every hit. Easy to see new ones then. :)
Ah brilliant solution! So easy. Thank for that my friend
@@dashrendar5320hey, tnx, hope it helps. That lorica segmentata looks expensive, hope u can pound out the dents. :)
Haha yeah they were Just little dings. Just adds character 😂
War slingers could use rocks weighing 500 grams with a war sling(almost touching the ground)
it doesn't even need to penetrate at that point, block with a shield, break your arm, hit you in the chest, destroy your bones/organs... no penetration needed.
Yeah that’s closer to what I was using during the 8:55 montage. It’s an oversized balearic sling and the rocks are 8-12 oz
Enhanced with vicious mockery, which is an additional one d4 psychic damage
😂😂😂
Im curious about how iron, steel or tungsten would work as harder materials that wouldn't deform much yet are still very heavy.
I would love to try a tungsten shot haha
I just realized the Dog Tennis Ball Launcher (Salad Spoon looking thing) is the modern day equivalent to a sling.
I’d say it’s more similar to an atlatl than a sling but it could probably be used for both
Of course the terrifying thing about the sling is the volume of fire they can lay down. A couple might glance of armour but any one of the bullets might kill or at the very least put someone out of action for the battle or longer. I'd be interested to see the same video in a couple of years to see how much of an improvement there is in your accuracy and power generation. Obviously I know you can't go full on sphendonetes for that time but you will still improve.
Yes indeed! I will continue to strive to improve and hopefully one day I can at least be as good as a young child was back in the day 😂
@@dashrendar5320crazy to think. Need to get your kids out there with a loaf of bread on a stick. xD
I'm really looking forward to my boys being old enough to show how to do this stuff, if they get into it they will probably be better than me before they reach secondary school! 😅
Look up Joerg Sprave's The Slingshot Channel. He was approached by archeologists excavating a Scottish hill fort. They found buckets of lead sling shot with a 4 or 5 mm holes drilled into the shot, but not through. The fort was besieged by Romans who used the shot. The hole creates a freakish whistle when flung. Imagine the effects of 100s and 100s of these screamers raining down on you. Joerg duplicated the shot and tried it out. Must watch.
Yes I have heard about that actually my friend, truly terrifying to behold. I am actually gonna try that out now that I have the lead.
I have always been curious about that
@@dashrendar5320 The psychology of these and not knowing where they'll impact...
Styrofoam is cheaper and readily available for backing material, but I suggest clay for videos. It shows the impression better. And, it is reusable.
Yeah I had a few people suggest that actually. Will for sure incorporate in future videos
Very interesting video. By the way, why don't you use clay bullets? This will allow you to get a projectile of standardized shape and weight. This will greatly simplify training, in comparison with stone bullets.
Also, if you dip the bullet in turmeric powder before throwing, the impact point will be much more visible. There are all sorts of powder dyes that are cheap and biodegradable. It can be very interesting to watch on video.
Also, if you make clay bullets with a surface similar to a golf ball, you can get greater flight speed and range.
All excellent suggestions my friend! I have never taken the time to make clay bullets but would be a fun build and project to do for sure. But I really like the idea of the powers
@@dashrendar5320I recently watched Todd's video about fire arrows. It made me think that using powder on bullets is a good idea. Also, if you make a clay bullet, you can hollow it out and put lime powder inside. Or something like that.
It's interesting how they used that in the past...
You don't have to make your own clay bullets. There are plenty of clubs for people who like to make pottery. You can just ask them to help you with the process or just order ready-made bullets.
Dude you are full of great ideas haha: I will reach out to some pottery shops
it must be noted that your test pieces are not under tension, the reason linothorax and gambeson are effective is because it 'encases', it isn't a good test to use a small piece.
a gambeson would not be pushed into the body, it would limit penetration.
the linothorax is about damage mitigation against thrusts, those using it were mostly fighting in phalanx, a pushing battle, the idea being to shove the opposing force off the field..
homer notes the kill shots being thrusts to the neck and groin, not to centre mass.
there is a reason gambesons stayed in use well into the high middle ages, as long as it is tight on the body, it works well against thrusts, be it sword or spear.
as for measuring your sling impacts, there is a device for measuring bite force that may be re-engineered to measure impact force.
they have been around since the 1970s and were developed to measure shark bite forces. the amount the material deforms gives pounds per square inch.
I want to see how you make the mold for the lead shot.
That would be a fun video. Maybe next time
Lead’s real advantage is extra range, and penetration on unarmoured parts of the body. But the extra range is quite significant. I get 170-200 meters with good stones. And 300-350 meters with lead. So yeah, that’s why they used it , i think, to poke those puny bowmen for example out of their reach, and surprise infantry, with shields down, thinking they’re out of reach😂
Haha down with the bowmen haha. Yeah it’s
Crazy that at they time they could out range the bows
@ with a piece of rope lol.
Very interesting. I would of thought because led is abit more softer than rock that it wouldnt be as destructive. Which makes me think why they used led shot over smoothed out rock, or would the rock just break up in the mussle of rifle. Obviously your doing sling, im just musing on the reasons behind the material they used back then.
The rocks will break over time, but it it’s a super solid dense river rock they tend to hold up just fine. Lead is much easier to shape for sure so you a more universal shot
@dashrendar5320
Ok makes sense, thanks Dash 👍🏻🏹
Most welcome my friend
nice work
Thank you my friend💪🪨
Got a nice lil foot reveal from this one
roughly plus or minus about 200 grains those projectiles weight about 1200 to 1400 grains for those trying to quantify with US ballistics measurments.
5 ozs would be about 2200 grains
the spear only confirms why Romans threw pilums rather than used them as spears. velocity kills.
"Maximus Gainacus" 😂😂 had me dying! Love it 😂😂
That tunic is sick too.. i really like the embroidery on the sleeves.
Thanks man! It’s a really cool tunic for sure and yeah I made myself chuckle quite a bit with that name haha
Total War: Rome taught me slingers are the deadliest unit on the battlefield, they decimate pretty much every unit in the game lol
That's definitely true, those RTW units were lethal
Especially if you got them around onto a flank and could get around the shields of a phalanx.
The results dont surprise me, the glued linen will resist blugeoning damage as the impact is dispersed over all of the surface, but its weakness is the focused damage of piercing, the quilted won't really help with blugeoning as it cant disperse the impact but will bind up the piercing somewhat by slowing it down, after all thats what gambeson is. I dont think your tests were flawed