November 2 - The Beginning of the End for Catherine Howard

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ต.ค. 2019
  • On this day in Tudor history, 2nd November 1541, All Souls' Day, Archbishop Thomas Cranmer gave King Henry VIII a letter that would spark off the beginning of the end for Queen Catherine Howard, Henry VIII's fifth wife.
    Catherine Howard's past, her romances with Henry Manox and Francis Dereham, were about to come back to haunt her, and her present relationship with Thomas Culpeper would soon be uncovered.
    In today's talk, Claire Ridgway, founder of the Tudor Society, explains exactly what was in Archbishop Cranmer's letter and what happened next.
    Here is the link to Claire's talk on the executions of Catherine Howard and Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford - • 13 February - The Exec...

ความคิดเห็น • 213

  • @mariahunter9882
    @mariahunter9882 4 ปีที่แล้ว +101

    I don't feel sorry for Henry I feel sorry for Catherine.

    • @thelton100
      @thelton100 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      So do I. Uh...Catherine wasn't married at the time so what was the problem?

    • @clare5one
      @clare5one 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@thelton100 She had a "pre-contract" with Dereham, maybe(?).

    • @terencebennison6275
      @terencebennison6275 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Agreed Maria, I feel sorry for catherine, primarily because she was a tool of her parents , who literally pushed her into the orbit of the monster Henry 8, she was a sacrificial lamb who's only job was to bring wealth and position to her family. ( as did so many parents of young women at court). Henry, by the time he took Catherine , was an ulcerated mess , wholly unappetizing to such a young woman. No wonder she cheated on him. A sad indictment of Henry's court and it's courtiers.

    • @mangot589
      @mangot589 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      terry helton IMHO, the problem was that she presented herself as a “rose without a thorn”. And sadly, after Henry found out it wasn’t so..Henry was humiliated...... Poor girl. She played, and lost. Aside from that, cheating on the king once they were married, (which has never been proven to my satisfaction, BTW, but it does seem likely) WAS treason. You can’t be having the heir to the throne in question. I do think, MAYBE, if she had told him she wasn’t a virgin before they got married, he may have overlooked it. That’s just my opinion. But, then he would/could have discarded her, and then she would have kept her head, and he would have moved on.🤷‍♀️

    • @clockwinder2924
      @clockwinder2924 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      These days It’d be child abuse. From her piano tutor Henry Mannock (aged 11 or 12) to Dereham (aged 13 or 14) to Henry (aged15/16); she was under age even as she was murdered -aged approximately 16 or 17. That poor girl. Perhaps Culpepper was her first love (even though he was a rapist too, unfortunately.) I hate that she is still regarded as some type of “good time girl” (slut) even though the poor young lady was a victim, used and given to be abused by her family -while she had some value to them and abandoned the moment she became a liability. As for Jane Rockford (Parker) you could not make up a more twisted and manipulative character if you tried! I love the Tudors and their history, but I find this one of the lowest points in their collective reign. RIP Catherine Howard.

  • @mariafury1047
    @mariafury1047 4 ปีที่แล้ว +49

    I love how Henry castes blame on those around him, for decisions he made himself. He wanted to marry a teenager at this age, he did it and it went wrong. His fault and his alone.

    • @ElizabethF2222
      @ElizabethF2222 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Maria Fury. Agree! He never took responsibility for his actions, always looking to blame others for his "shortcomings" if you get my drift. 😛😛😁😁

    • @januarysson5633
      @januarysson5633 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Even with his ulcerated leg and with a 54” waist Henry thought he was God’s gift.

    • @ElizabethF2222
      @ElizabethF2222 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@januarysson5633 IKR? Who in their right mind would want to be with a big fat, stinky spoiled rotten king??? Ugh.

    • @chasitydickens6155
      @chasitydickens6155 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      That's what happens whenever you're raised as a spolied bratt like King Henry was. Be never had to own up to his faults nor did he get any discipline.

    • @chasitydickens6155
      @chasitydickens6155 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@ElizabethF2222 Like she had a choice

  • @sola.6350
    @sola.6350 4 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    Just so sad...I feel sorry for all of Henry’s wives, but especially Catherine...

  • @iloveyourunclebob
    @iloveyourunclebob 4 ปีที่แล้ว +94

    Catherine really breaks my heart. Obviously it was different time and different expectations for women, but the science we now know doesn't change because it's the 1500s. We now know she actually couldn't consent to the first 2, at least. Her behaviors do go in line with the way some people react to being victims of sexual abuse. I find her to be a victim of men and a victim of her time.

    • @bonnielong5812
      @bonnielong5812 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Jaded Wonderland I’m not 100% sure of this, but I believe the age of consent for females in this era was 12years old, so she would have had a say into what was going on. I suspect she was simply a silly, vain flirt & encouraged the men. I think their attention & desire for her gave her a much needed boost to her ego. Poor, silly little flirt.

    • @bonnielong5812
      @bonnielong5812 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Also, Catherine was the daughter of a 3rd noble son, (one of the Howard family) who
      , although noble was poor. He felt he couldn’t work because of his noble station, so Catherine was sort of farmed out to a step grand mother who was much too busy to keep an eye on her. She was left to roam free & basically do whatever she wanted. At one point one of her lovers who frequented the house hold developed a stronger bond, she calling him husband & he calling her wife, If she had had the sense to admit his, showing that she had a pre-contract ( which would have been recognized by the church as a marriage), she probably would have been shipped off to her “husband”, and she would have kept her head. SHE WAS SIXTEEN YEARS OLD & had no counselor to advise her. It was an awful shame, and a tragic end to a silly but sweet, kind flirt.

    • @RMAdams87
      @RMAdams87 4 ปีที่แล้ว +19

      @@bonnielong5812 I'm not sure you fully read what she wrote. She mentioned that science doesn't change with the time period. Whether the laws of the land say that she can consent doesn't impact the fact that her mind was far less developed than a grown adult in their early to mid-twenties or even an 18 year old. She did not have the mental capacity to consent and was taken advantage of due to her youth, lack of education, and lack protection.

    • @januarysson5633
      @januarysson5633 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      I question Thomas Cranmer’s motives for telling Henry. I don’t imagine he was a close friend of the Howards.

    • @januarysson5633
      @januarysson5633 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Bonnie Long I doubt it. Henry had far too big an ego to forgive the fact that his wife had deceived him even if there was a pre-contract. Henry’s mind was pretty much gone by then.

  • @CherylGormanAuthor
    @CherylGormanAuthor 4 ปีที่แล้ว +33

    Catherine’s story is so sad. She really never had much of a chance at happiness in life.

  • @Story-Voracious66
    @Story-Voracious66 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    That poor girl.
    It is such a sad history.
    If we remember back to our early teens, we can imagine just how it must have been for her.
    Just a child in a dangerous, screwed up, adult world.
    Thank you Claire.
    😢🏵️

  • @barbaraconnolly9000
    @barbaraconnolly9000 4 ปีที่แล้ว +27

    She was just a child. Poor girl.

    • @stompthedragon4010
      @stompthedragon4010 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes, she was a gigly child playing at being Queen. She was just a plaything to bring him a son as far as Henry was concerned. Unfortunately she made some terrible choices. I truly disliked Culpepper. Her Lady in Waiting wasnt much help.

  • @terencebennison6275
    @terencebennison6275 4 ปีที่แล้ว +69

    Oh, for shame! Poor Henry, how dare his wife cheat on him, he must have been beside himself, I mean he would never dream of dallying with another woman whilst he was married would he?

    • @emmajones8590
      @emmajones8590 4 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      The problem was, that a dallying queen could have a child by another man and affect the succession to the throne.
      An illegitimate child of the king with a lady in waiting, would just be her child.
      An illegitimate child of the queen consort with a palace servant, would mean that his child would become the next king or queen.
      So yes, they were much stickier about unfaithful wives than husbands.

    • @kimberlytyrcha5930
      @kimberlytyrcha5930 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      Terry Bennison...Also, for the Queen to commit adultery was considered treason back then.

    • @terencebennison6275
      @terencebennison6275 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@emmajones8590 agreed. Curious though, Henry named his illegitimate son by Bessie Blount Henry Fitz Roy which I equate to henry the king.

    • @terencebennison6275
      @terencebennison6275 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      @@kimberlytyrcha5930 lol the hypocrisy of Harry 8 never fails to amuse me. He had catherine executed because his pride was hurt, he was a cuckhold and he spit his dummy out! Those tears that Claire mentioned were not of sorrow but of rage and spite.

    • @stephanierichards1096
      @stephanierichards1096 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@emmajones8590 true, though the Tudors 'link" to the English throne began with a widowed Queen consort and a courtier

  • @gamer2101
    @gamer2101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I love these videos. Thank you for taking the time to make them. I look forward to them every day

  • @capens4185
    @capens4185 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Having a blast binge watching! Love your passion and delivery

  • @MeghanBelhumeur
    @MeghanBelhumeur 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mrs Claire, I so look forward to these daily videos! Thank you for all your hard work and devotion. I’m sad the year (and subsequently the “On This Day” videos) is coming to an end! Better believe I will be rewatching in 2020🙂

  • @ig7002
    @ig7002 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    Have you ever cried when thinking about what these people went through? It just seems so helpless. Today, we would be protected, but then it was so dire. No justice. A poor young woman and young men being youthful and having fun, then they're killed for it. And another woman for simply knowing of it. Surely if there is a hell, Henry the 8th is there.

    • @marionarnott750
      @marionarnott750 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Katherine was not just having youthful fun - she was committing high treason and threatening the succession had she conceived. Lady Rochford was executed for conniving at treason. No kingdom or king could or would tolerate an unfaithful queen. Katherine must have been incredibly dim not to understand this. Norfolk and friends, who threw her in the King's way, have a lot answer for.
      Queen.

    • @ig7002
      @ig7002 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@marionarnott750 She was barely 19 though. Her brain was literally not mature yet. I doubt she thought through the consequences of her actions. I think she probably wasn't very bright.

    • @marionarnott750
      @marionarnott750 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ig7002 She was 19 years old - hardly a child.. Can you imagine Elizabeth Tudor behaving like that at 19? Katherine:s behaviour was more to do with a lack of intelligence and self control, a lack of awareness of what and where she was and the danger she was, putting herself in. Henry wasn:t the only king who would have had Katherine's head for this particular crime. I blame him for Anne:s execution but not Katherine's much. I pity her but what on earth was she thinking?

    • @iloveyourunclebob
      @iloveyourunclebob 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      @@marionarnott750 yes, but how much do we actually know about her relationship with Culpepper and how it actually started. Him and his brother both had the same name and one of them was pardoned for raping a noblewoman.
      We see time and time again now how abusive relationships work and the manipulation and everything else that goes into it, why can't we understand this for her? If this WAS the Culpepper that raped a noblewoman, who's to say he didn't manipulate and abused her into submission?

  • @scottalbers2518
    @scottalbers2518 4 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    I've really come to love your channel.

  • @sunrise18999
    @sunrise18999 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I just love you, Claire. You're knowledge, and delivery of it is priceless. Thank you!!! Xoxo I respect you so much. Love, Jamie

  • @theresecatalano4017
    @theresecatalano4017 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Catherine was so young & I cant help but feel sorry for her. Thank for sharing Claire!

  • @digitalis800
    @digitalis800 4 ปีที่แล้ว +17

    Although a Howard Catherine was poor. She was sent to live in the household of her step grandmother Agnes Tylney the Dowager Duchess Of Norfolk.It was a custom followed by many great families to advance their children by sending to live in the great noble houses. Antonia Fraser in her book "The Six Wives ofHenry VIII" compared it to a finishing school but the better comparison might be Childrens homes where children are groomed by sexual predators. Why did the members of the household who saw these inappropriate liasons not report it to the Duchess.What young girl of 16 or17 when faced with the king wanting to marry her and her powerful Howard relatives probably forcing her to accept him would have the courage to say I am already as good as married to Francis Dereham.

    • @darianrose2195
      @darianrose2195 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      While in the times she lived she wasn't considered a child. Biology, however, doesn't care about social norms. A person's brain isn't even fully developed until around age 25, an age she was unable to reach. I had an unwise relationship with an older man from age 15 to almost 18. I won't go too much into details, except thank GOD it didn't go as far as he wanted. But, I thought I was mature enough to love like an adult. I thought he saw me in that light but looking back, now....I take full responsibility for my part, but he was absolutely trying to groom me. The words he used, the mind games. Katheryn may have thought herself a woman when she knew the first two. She may have been more participant than victim. Or she WAS groomed and used by older men who took advantage of a very young girl. At this distance, it's hard to tell.

  • @isabellaw9242
    @isabellaw9242 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Loved this one so much! Thank you so much!

  • @chiaroscuroamore
    @chiaroscuroamore 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I love your shirt! ❤️👚
    Henry VIII humiliated his subjects and was humiliated in turn by his wife’s ongoing indiscretions.
    Thank you for another informative video and I look forward to tomorrow’s video.

  • @justanothergoogler6436
    @justanothergoogler6436 4 ปีที่แล้ว +43

    Catherine was just a way-too-young good time gal who got in way over her head. The vetting process failed miserably.

    • @renshiwu305
      @renshiwu305 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Blame the Howards, they're the ones who put Catherine in Henry's path. Unlike Anne Boleyn, Catherine was primarily the victim of others' ambition. She still should have been wary enough to avoid consorting with young men, though.

    • @GradKat
      @GradKat 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      There was no vetting process; some members of her family were well aware of Catherine’s prior romances. They kept it quiet because they wanted the prestige that came with her becoming Queen.

  • @melissafrazier3522
    @melissafrazier3522 4 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    I’ve always felt bad for Catherine and for Dereham. How was Dereham to know she’d become Queen?

    • @GradKat
      @GradKat 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Francis Dereham was a fool who couldn’t keep his mouth shut. He posed a great threat to Catherine when he showed up at court after her marriage to Henry. Catherine had moved on, but Dereham wouldn’t.

    • @lynnedelacy2841
      @lynnedelacy2841 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I agree he was a fool but did he deserve a traitors death when all that happened between him and Catherine pre dated the royal marriage?

    • @stompthedragon4010
      @stompthedragon4010 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@lynnedelacy2841 No. He did not. And the only one innocent out of the accused.

  • @shesaknitter
    @shesaknitter 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks, Claire. You can't go wrong with your "On this day something bad happened" shirt considering that it was the Age of the Loping Off of Heads. What a scary time to be alive! Love your videos!

  • @mandygray764
    @mandygray764 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love your channel so much

  • @AndriaBieberDesigns
    @AndriaBieberDesigns 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love your videos 💕💕

  • @lynnedelacy2841
    @lynnedelacy2841 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Catherine - as my grandmother used to say ‘more to be pitied than blamed’
    The Howard’s greed for advancement seems to have clouded their intelligence in doing a proper background check on Catherine

    • @darianrose2195
      @darianrose2195 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      I think the Howard men who used her for their own advancement were well aware.

  • @Ladybug-uf7uh
    @Ladybug-uf7uh 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Really!?! I'm first?!? Never happens! But again, Thank You Claire for continuing to teach us about this time in history. You are awesome; got my calendar - it's wonderful!

  • @berjaboy
    @berjaboy 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Not sure why she never disclosed these relationships before she got married? My God, she was entering a snake pit, with back stabbing and be-headings almost commonplace. The last thing you'd want to do is enter an atmosphere like that with "incriminating" past baggage that would surely get you killed if discovered. Especially since she seemed to carelessly surround herself with people from her past and who knew her past, into her new life as Queen. The slightest bit of gossip between these people, was bound not to end well.

  • @beth7935
    @beth7935 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I find the condemnation of CATHERINE really disturbing: "she was stupid, should've known better, should've said she was pre-contracted to Dereham", etc etc etc. Henry was the one who executed his wife!
    Catherine didn't have 20/20 hindsight, either: WE know she was going to be caught out, but SHE didn't. And people risk their lives every day despite knowing the risks, ie drink-driving, especially young people.

    • @SM-BSW
      @SM-BSW 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      She was a deeply traumatized teenager, who had been groomed since childhood.
      Her behavior was normal for someone with her trauma history. Times may change, but trauma responses don't.
      Poor kid never stood a chance.

    • @SM-BSW
      @SM-BSW 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      One of the things I appreciated about how she's portrayed in the Musical Six, is that the show doesn't shy away from the abuse that Howard endured her whole life.
      th-cam.com/video/BWn74CJ_7Cs/w-d-xo.html

  • @Savannah_Simpson
    @Savannah_Simpson 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I don’t think it’s fair to say Catherine was ever “happy” to be married to Henry. She was a teenager forced to marry an old decrepit man who’d already been married 4 times and had her cousin beheaded on charges not widely believed even at the time.

  • @darlenefarmer5921
    @darlenefarmer5921 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you.

  • @JessicaRabbit324
    @JessicaRabbit324 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Love that shirt!! I shall have to put in a request for Christmas lol.

  • @haafunimienaikedo
    @haafunimienaikedo 4 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Serves him right! Good.

  • @jessicamoores181
    @jessicamoores181 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Always a Pleasure, Claire😍

  • @dukadarodear2176
    @dukadarodear2176 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Henry VIII was as chaste as a nun.
    &
    Attila the Hun was full of fun.

  • @ellendelaney8109
    @ellendelaney8109 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I feel sad for Catherine Howard it was so sad she was so young and manipulated by her family a pawn

  • @hazeluzzell
    @hazeluzzell 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love your T shirt!!💕

  • @annettefournier9655
    @annettefournier9655 4 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Was this Jane Boleyn, George Boleyn's widow? Thanks Claire. It still amazes me that knowing about the king's dealings with previous wives she would dare to have dalliances after becoming Queen. Of course there was nothing could be done about her prior experiences. But had she kept herself only to Henry ( no matter how repulsive the thought) She could have plead she was led astray by promise of marriage and only wanting to secure herself a future.💜

    • @ig7002
      @ig7002 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Yes it was the same Jane. Very sad.

    • @sassytbc7923
      @sassytbc7923 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I think we know by now that the truth could easily be manipulated when needed. Therefore, I think the same thing would have happened to Catherine whether she kept herself to Henry or not..if that was wished for.

  • @aimee2234
    @aimee2234 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    So sad. Another Henry roadkill. Thank you, Claire! xo

  • @Angie2343
    @Angie2343 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Should have done this for a certain Anne Boleyn too. :'( Henry should have called the claims against Anne as fake.

  • @almontepaolilli4909
    @almontepaolilli4909 4 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Seems that Henry should have heard of this behavior of his Queen’s background before he married her. Poor Queen was not to be for long.

    • @wendychavez5348
      @wendychavez5348 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I believe either people were too afraid to warn him, or people tried to warn him and he blew them off because he was lovestruck. Of course if anyone had dared to say later that "I told you so," he wouldn't have heard it, or might have even retaliated (which would not have ended well for the people reminding him that he had been warned), so one way or another it ended up easier to keep one's head attached to one's shoulders to turn a blind eye.

    • @almontepaolilli4909
      @almontepaolilli4909 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Wendy Chavez. Can not argue with your logic. Henry loved being in love with attractive ladies of the court. I also imagine those around him were wise to his ways and tried to stay on his good side and keep their heads.

    • @wendychavez5348
      @wendychavez5348 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I was thinking, I should probably specify that I don't know this for certain. It would fit his character and the irrational reverence in which he was held, but to my knowledge there are no reliable historical sources that mention this. So, thank you for the validation, though I really don't know what I'm talking about lol.

  • @HayaJi
    @HayaJi 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    That t-shirt cracked me up... 'cos it's true 😉

  • @Denise-ki9ii
    @Denise-ki9ii 4 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    I like to think that Jane Boleyn helped Catherine with her affair out of revenge for what Henry did to George and Anne. Perhaps it was her way of getting back at Henry VIII for the false charge of adultery. No way of ever knowing but it could have been covert justice visited on a man that was untouchable in law.

    • @gamer2101
      @gamer2101 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I wonder that as well.

    • @janettewalker4514
      @janettewalker4514 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Interesting theory!!!!

    • @darianrose2195
      @darianrose2195 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Interesting. I think it's safe to say now that the whole "Jane betrayed them" bit to be false. From the little we know of the marriage and her relationship with Anne, it seems to paint a picture of a certain friendship and love so wow. Maybe her actions with Howard WERE revenge.

  • @marymoriarity2555
    @marymoriarity2555 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Poor Henry had no luck with his wives. Good heavens two queens be headed. The court was a vile place. Good thing the Tudor dynasty died out totally.

    • @marionarnott750
      @marionarnott750 4 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      His wives had no luck with Henry!

    • @daughteroftime8047
      @daughteroftime8047 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      You act like he wasn't the one who ordered their executions. And the charges on Anne, at least, were completely fabricated.

  • @bonnielong5812
    @bonnielong5812 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Well, I didn’t mean to argue, I thought I was offering a piece of information that other viewers might find interesting. No, having been a victim of sexual abuse myself, at the age of 11, I would never blame the victim. My sincerest apologies.

  • @courtneyotter7296
    @courtneyotter7296 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This girl knows her stuff

  • @qiuwbr091
    @qiuwbr091 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The T shirt is really entertaining.

  • @maryannlockwood7806
    @maryannlockwood7806 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    🇺🇸I got my mug in the mail today!🇬🇧☕️

    • @AndriaBieberDesigns
      @AndriaBieberDesigns 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Maryann Lockwood ohh I didn’t know she had mugs! I’ll look for one

    • @maryannlockwood7806
      @maryannlockwood7806 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      andria Biebs If you look underneath the description of her channel she has a Teespring account with shirts, mugs and other things.👚☕️

  • @bonnielong5812
    @bonnielong5812 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    All you who chastised me so brutally, I am apologizing. I did not express myself well. I encourage all interested in this to read Gloria Lange’s comment’s (labeled) opinion. She put everything I had wanted to say so much more eloquently than I did!

  • @BlackCatMargie
    @BlackCatMargie 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Poor Catherine. I feel for her, even though she seems to have been fairly foolish. She was young, and once the King had 'noticed' her she was on a path to Queenship that she simply didn't know how to navigate. Her past before she met the king was one terrible secret, but the continuance of that behaviour after her marriage just seems so reckless. I wonder what she was thinking when she slept with Culpepper? She must have known she could be caught? She would certainly have known the punishment for a queen who commits adultery. None of it makes much sense to me, but I still feel a great deal of pity for her.

    • @iloveyourunclebob
      @iloveyourunclebob 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      One does have to wonder what actually happened with Culpepper and her. Him and his brother have the same name and one of them was pardoned for raping a noble woman. If he's already a predator and knew secrets of her past, it does kind of question how much was really consensual. Sure, she wrote a letter that seemed way to familiar and flirty, but who knows what happened that finally led her to liking him.

    • @pbohearn
      @pbohearn 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Margie Anne well, isn’t the risk of getting caught half the fun?! Everyone here is so damn logical and rational. I have a feeling those qualities were not Catherine Howard’s strong suits, though I’m certain she had her charms.. This girl apparently was raised in an extremely unstructured environment (not by her parents; she seems to have been practically disowned), and there was lots of freedom in this house with very little guidance or supervision, but a lot of hormones. And it could very well be that she had been molested or abused, certainly manipulated, as a young person. and yes, she probably did like the attention because there was likely no other acknowledgment of her otherwise. Flirtation and intrigue relationships and sex affairs can be a great diversion from what otherwise might be confronting waves of loneliness and anxiety and emptiness and boredom that she perhaps contended with as an orphan girl and adolescent. Unfortunately, she continued with these “games“ at the palace when really they should’ve been left behind.
      In any case she arrived to the court completely unprepared to deal with the politics and intrigue, and to manage her self in a way that enhanced her respect and self-control.. I recall that Anne Boleyn went to France for a few years to serve in the court of the queen there. That would’ve been a perfect place to have gotten that grooming and develop that fine balance between flirtation and restraint which apparently her cousin did not receive. Anne certainly knew what she was doing with Henry During her courtshipand even when she was accused of adultery, nothing was ever pinned on her in any serious way. Henry wasn’t such a looker at that point, gaining a lot of weight, plus the fact that he had an ongoing festering wound on his leg that needed to be dressed constantly. I’m sure that he wasn’t the kind of person you wanted to nestle up to LOL. I’m just sad she hadn’t gotten pregnant yet that may have saved her, especially if she had a son.What is interesting is she is the only wife where it’s clear she was unfaithful to him, despite his accusations withbAnne. she actually did do it and that was her foolishness. And as somebody said This candidate was not well vetted.
      Iol

    • @marionarnott750
      @marionarnott750 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      She may not have slept with Culpepper. He denied it but admitted he intended to. What if that was true and the pair indulged in romantic trysts only? Obviously I don't know the truth of it but it might explain her reckless behaviour if she didn't feel that she had actually been unfaithful.
      She just didn't get it.

  • @ladylove2310
    @ladylove2310 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That woman who told on her has blood on her hands. She could have kept quiet. Why she did not I will never understand.

  • @janyceimoto8750
    @janyceimoto8750 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    So sad and awful...

  • @Lyndell-P
    @Lyndell-P 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    🇭🇲🦘 (viewed 1/11/2020) ... What can one say? We are aware that Catherine Howard was no virgin when she married King Henry VIII BUT she would have
    .... known that if this ever 'came out' that this would be the end of her. Let alone her later affair at court. IF ONLY she had never married the King!
    Whilst she would have been ostracised by the Howard family (if her family had known of her past) she would at least have lived. She was at court serving Anne of Cleves when noticed by the King.
    By then it was too late, and she 'pretended on' - later marrying the King. She did make the King very happy, but then her 'skeletons in the cupboard' came out for all to know. This was indeed 'the beginning of the end' for Catherine Howard. What a very sad end it was to be, for all.
    A broken heart for the King. Death to 2 men, and 2 women (Catherine Howard and her lady, Jane Boleyn).
    A very sad state of affairs! Excuse the pun (not meant to be funny at all) ...
    An interesting video. "Thank you" Claire 💓👑👍

  • @dirkbollein4406
    @dirkbollein4406 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    As I understand, it took quite some effort for Henry VIII to believe the adultery of his new young bride. Regardless, he has taken the trouble to have the issue examined by several confidants to have an objective report. Would he have learned that from the regrets he had about Anne Boleyn?

  • @connoroleary591
    @connoroleary591 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    One good thing at least; Catherine never became pregnant, had she produced another child for Henry, that child would have suffered as there was no way of Henry knowing if his baby son was an "spare" or a "bastard". Consequently, he/she might have had a very short life.
    It would be funny if the position was reversed and Catherine was given a letter detailing Henry's adulteries, and had him arrested, tried as a traitor and beheaded on Tower Hill.

  • @indiciaobscure
    @indiciaobscure 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is my sister Catherine's birthday, haha. However there were so many Catherines at that time Im sure something good happened to a Catherine on that day.

  • @glorialange6446
    @glorialange6446 4 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Opinion: I often wonder if Katherine was of a doubtful intelligence, possibly even a little slow mentally. She seems to have gone through everything with a childlike expectation that all would be well... Having the example of the past wives there was little doubt that for any misstep it could happen to her also..
    Was she supremely egotistical? Believing that she was so loved and so beautiful and so above all Henrys other wives that she could do as she pleased and would triumph?
    As far as sexual abuse, old men and young women have had relationships of an older man younger woman since the beginning of time... and make no mistake, young as she was, Katherine was a fully adult woman , even if not old, older than a great many brides of those days, when a girl was trained from the very youngest age to know how to comport herself and what her duties to self and family and husbands were. But this was at war with the wish to be seen as grown up and as a woman to be loved and cherished ... her childhood was far from the loving teachings of caring adults, mostly she was left to her own devices with older women who had no vested interest in her purity and her upbringing, and she wanted to feel included ... flattered by any attention... a recipe for disaster and envy from her party girl companions of youth and the men who took advantage of the lax conditions of their care... nevertheless there is little doubt in my mind that she knew the consequenses of her affair with her cousin Culpeper, and embraced him willingly all the same, probably finding the thrill of a secret relationship to be right in her comfort zone considering how she had lived as a young girl. I opine that no matter how much she loved the trappings of being Henrys wife, the reality was something she was trying to deny by her affair. Nor can I see Thomas Culpeper as fully at fault because she was Queen and could have effectively shut him down if she had wanted to...and she did not WANT to and what man wouldnt want to feel like he was better than a King in a Queens eyes???... as far as blackmail...yes I think she was blackmailed by Dereham and was franticly using Culpeper as part of a way of trying to deny the mess she was in, as a protection against Dereham in a strange way, and she encouraged herself, and Culpeper, to consumate an illicit relationship as much as sounding quite infatuated in a letter to him... finally, has anyone considered that Jane Rochford really loved her husband George and was devastated by his murder by Henry just to get rid of a no longer loved wife(anne boleyn)? I much more see Jane as a woman who was possibly not loved enough by her husband, who struggled to matter but was overshadowed by her sister in law who was by all accounts quite the personality, who wrote when her husband was in the tower a loving wifely letter, who possibly went to Cromwell to plead for her husband and was told to back off, a woman left with little when he was executed and had to depend on his murderer for her future... a woman who was possibly already mentally unstable through grief and anger and unexpressed hatred for Henry the king responsible for so many dead wives... why would she help Katherine deceive the Murderer??? Belated Revenge... long awaited and festering... we cant know, but some of the theories put forth of Katherines innocence, of Culpepers humble love, of Janes betrayal of her husband, of Henrys shock and grief and disbelief, all ring false to me. Each player may have used those outward expressions to deny reality and to make themselves publicly more than what they were in private. As always ,Claire, you make me think beyond your videos, and think of each piece of evidence in the context of the times in which the Tudors lived. Thank you.

    • @bonnielong5812
      @bonnielong5812 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      gloria lange Gloria, WOW, that was EXACTLY what I was trying to convey, but much less eloquently!! I have been severely chastised for my remarks. You’re awesome & have a new friend!

    • @glorialange6446
      @glorialange6446 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@bonnielong5812 so many times people do not place themselves into the context of the times, and so are inserting their own morals and ethics into the past as if those modern morals and ethics were as true in the past as they are now. Some see things as if they are wrong now then they were wrong then, without considering the morals and ethics in force for them in their OWN time. And of course, in their time, most saw their morals and ethics as modern and correct as compared to THEIR past.
      We can see that Henry VIII was a tyrant, and that he went too far with his royal perogatives and his absolute will, and in the context of HIS time and HIS thinking, we are wrong, because of one simple belief of the people. Henry VIII was King annointed and by grace of GOD, absolute ruler and never wrong in HIS eyes. It was the end of an age, although it was drug out through his children, the force and strength that allowed Henry to practice lese majesty was slowly altered to become the will of the people. Concentrated power in the person of the ruler was chiseled away by parliament and the people until the monarchy today is more a figurative and symbolic position.
      All that aside, to realize that children were pawns of the adults in charge of their lives, that women had few opportunities to have power and wealth in their own right, that girls were most always given as wives to the 'highest bidder' so to speak, that young girls were not expected to find love except with their wedded husband, no matter their age or station, and that younger girls, some not even menstruating yet were given to what were considered ancient men of the time yet considered only middle aged today, whether used too young or left to mature first was always a Mans decision. Boys were raised knowing they must marry a suitable wife, one likely to provide children, and wealth, and even position to augment the family fortune. Families usually protected children, as they were the future, but actual love was secondary to alliances, to powerful connections, and to wealth. I do not say there was not love, but it was different, if not in feeling, in consummation. Most real and true love was found by adults who had fullfilled their duty, or by younger people who were romantically awakened by chance. Courtships sanctioned or contracted by family heads were the norm in most all relationships, and to go against those norms was punished severely.
      No one should try to insert moral judgements in to the far past without considering those past contexts. Just as today we would absolutely cringe in horror at a person taking wood lice mixed with horse dung for illness, maybe a few hundred years from now we will be seen as charlatons for giving one persons blood to another when there is a better method invented to save one from blood loss. The same is true today with the acceptance and encouragement of homosexuality. Back in tudor times it was an abomination because family lines would end if homosexuality prevailed, and fortunes could be lost through lack of marriage or lack of heirs. Now we have in vitro fetilization and surrogates to take care of that... but many still find it unnatural and wrong because not all homosexuals will be able to take advantage of those advances, and to perpetuate a non self sustaining lifestyle can be dangerous for future generations... just as in the past. But who knows what the future may bring to change that, possibly artificial wombs...
      Anyway, to be able to go back in time means to actually think of ALL the moral and ethical reasons people behaved as they did. I do not feel any thinking person should be bashed or trolled for commenting...it gives us all more to think about. And btw... I do not list homosexuality because of my private opinion. I list it because in Tudor times there were no ways to get legitimate children except through man woman marriage and sexual consummation between them, or legitimizing a bastard, or a secret and false bloodline inserted into a family, which has changed in our time.
      So I hope others open their minds to all the ramifications of placing themselves not only in the place, but in the moral, political, econonomic, and ethical context of that place and time.

    • @bonnielong5812
      @bonnielong5812 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      gloria lange You go girl!!!😆

    • @charlottebewick4634
      @charlottebewick4634 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      I believe Jane had a mental breakdown long b4 she was imprisoned in the tower with Catherine I think she lived George too her letter certainly seams to reflect this I cannot imagine how difficult her life would have been after the executions of George and Anne I believe Catherine was a victim I think her mindset comes from being manipulated for others gain any attention she craved it I believe she loved culpeper tho the evidence is certainly there for that her letter couldn't be interpreted in any other way

  • @annalisette5897
    @annalisette5897 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I read a whole biography on Katherine and I still don't understand why she did what she did. (Crudely put, how could she be so stupid, especially being Anne Boleyn's cousin?) I got the idea Culpepper made sure the worst happened and that his attitude was, if he couldn't have her, then no one would, even if they all died horribly.

  • @RMAdams87
    @RMAdams87 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Question: Do you believe Catherine was guilty of cheating with Culpepper? I've seen some claim that she was innocent.

  • @jenniferschultz7178
    @jenniferschultz7178 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Was it his happiness taken away or his ego & pride - yet again?
    I don't think his love for Catherine was either desire or courtly, rather pure ego - a midlife crisis maybe? Catherine was thers to make an old man feel his youth again, well what he imagined his youth should have been, the one his grandmother gave him wasn't that full of sin was it? And she failed to live up to his hype, like the 4 before her. Once she fell from his ego fuled imagined state she was done for. I've always believed that to be her crime - to have not meet his expectations.

  • @leanie5234
    @leanie5234 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love you Claire

  • @AM-qn1zt
    @AM-qn1zt 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Even today, there are 43 yr old men who would not hesitate on a 17 yr old girl. Some very poor supervision/parenting if any, she's having a man in her bed 100 nights. Different times indeed. Really enjoy all your great work and research!

  • @Justificus
    @Justificus 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Her youth was also a supposed insurance of fertility and Royal heirs. She was malleable, naive, a history of youthful indiscretions; and totally lacking any common sense about the consequences of offending the King. Her strong human desires - have as well been the ruin of many marriages even to this day. In this, she is hardly alone with the infamous and famous people of history - let alone the scandals of our tabloid news media that we see everyday.

  • @peterkrauss6962
    @peterkrauss6962 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Lay down with dogs wake up with fleas. The minute dereham saw she became queen he should have cleared outta Dodge. Lol

  • @edennis3202
    @edennis3202 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I can't help but wonder if someone was out for revenge against the Howards. Why else would everyone involved wait so long to say something? During the marriage discussions and negotiations, after the betrothal was announced, and during the early days of their marriage? Nobody had said a word. It's very strange timing.

  • @jennifermoran6637
    @jennifermoran6637 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Are all the shirts and hoodies in just white?

    • @edithvanderbol4839
      @edithvanderbol4839 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Jennifer Moran There is grey also. I have one 😊

  • @lizag9780
    @lizag9780 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Henry must have been feared as a tyrant / mocked as a laughing stock in Europe, unable to keep a wife. No doubt he stood out.

  • @daughterofpatriots3165
    @daughterofpatriots3165 4 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    What a reckless woman. To be following the footsteps of Henry’s former wives, one would have thought she would consider keeping her head.

    • @burgundybabyy
      @burgundybabyy 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      daughter of patriots definitely agree, but at the end of the day, she was just a foolish young girl.

    • @Cissy2cute
      @Cissy2cute 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Author Gareth Russell has described her as a vivacious, albeit reckless, young woman who "just wanted to live" and enjoy herself rather than seeing herself as a part of history. In other words, live life to the fullest but never dreaming that gossip would bring her down. In her early teens she was somewhat wild and I guess it was difficult for such a person to suddenly cut off all the fun and become serious and austere.

    • @bonnielong5812
      @bonnielong5812 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      daughter of patriots That’s the problem, she wasn’t a woman, she was a child basically. The people of that era seemed to not “believe” in childhood. Their children didn’t get to play or go to Disneyland.
      The upper classes were teaching them Latin, Greek, astromny!

  • @michelerees
    @michelerees 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Holy geez, who encouraged that match? It must have been known about her...seems like Henry was set up for failure

    • @darianrose2195
      @darianrose2195 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Henry would be untouchable. Katheryn was the one who was set up. There's no way Norfolk and others weren't well aware of her past but she was ordered to keep silent. She should have been left alone and the men who controlled her, in my eyes, are more at fault in her downfall than she. She never should have been made to be Queen.

  • @ladyv5655
    @ladyv5655 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    That's what you get for marrying a child, Henry.

  • @kevinbergin9971
    @kevinbergin9971 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    There were some TV episodes about Henry's wives where the historian suggests that Catherine might have only been 13 when she married AND that she was sexually abused while at boarding school. (This was not a settled question however.) Add to that her parent were both dead so she had no real support system.
    No excuse, Henry executed one wife on trumped up charges so he was sure to chop off the head of a wife who really strayed. Still, it was a tough life.

    • @asdfghjzxcvbnm7637
      @asdfghjzxcvbnm7637 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      It wasnt a bordering school she was shiped off at the dowerduchess house aka her step grandmother house

  • @Angie2343
    @Angie2343 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Katherine should HAVE NEVER had those sexual relations.

    • @poiyreadghmncxadho657
      @poiyreadghmncxadho657 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      And she paid for it dearly

    • @Angie2343
      @Angie2343 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@poiyreadghmncxadho657 With her life.

  • @zacharyclark5617
    @zacharyclark5617 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Should not have been so stupid Catherine. I feel sorry for her though.

    • @emmajones8590
      @emmajones8590 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      She took some appalling risks. Was she intending to become pregnant from Culpepper and pass the child off as Henry's? He would know, if he hadn't been sleeping with her. If she had waited a few years longer, he would have died and she'd have been a stinking rich widow and could have married for love.

  • @kevinbergin9971
    @kevinbergin9971 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Took her confession, in writing? Not like nay confessions I have heard of.

  • @JenniferA.Minnear-Salaza-jb4qf
    @JenniferA.Minnear-Salaza-jb4qf 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    The music teacher was executed- for something he did not knowing she'd get chased by the king later? He was messed-up to chase a young girl, but this makes no sense to me. He was her ex, and had to die?

    • @anneboleynfiles
      @anneboleynfiles  4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The music tutor, Henry Manox, was interrogated but never imprisoned and was not executed.

  • @martinemariemc
    @martinemariemc 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Henry was just a miserable bastard. What he did to Anne and both Catherine's was just cruel. I always wondered though, Anne knew something was up, could she not have just run away with her child?

  • @ElizabethF2222
    @ElizabethF2222 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    It seems that something bad happens quite a bit when we are talking about the reign of Henry VIII. LOL Wonder why Derehem was executed, but Henry Mannox wasn't?? Wasn't Mannox in a position of authority which he obviously abused, as he was Katherine's music teacher? I have always wondered why Derehem, but not Mannox.

    • @gill8779
      @gill8779 4 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I think it may have been because it was not a crime to have known her before Henry noticed her. Also although the same could be said of Dereham he took the post of Catherine's private secretary after she became queen & so he in the limelight so to speak. Manox never saw Catherine again after she became queen so could not be accused of adultery with her.

    • @ElizabethF2222
      @ElizabethF2222 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@gill8779 Thanks for your reply! That makes sense now. I'm sure Henry thought there was some hanky panky going on with Derehem after he became her secretary, whether there was or not.

    • @Denise-ki9ii
      @Denise-ki9ii 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I forget which history book I read it, but Henry was reported as saying he
      hated Dereham for “spoiling” (corrupting) Catherine in her youth.
      Mannox didn’t take her virginity and had been nowhere near the court. Dereham being at court was seen as intent to resume sexual relations with Catherine.

  • @TheAjjupiter
    @TheAjjupiter 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Poor Katherine, just another girl who was manipulated by a man for power. I think Katherine was too naive to know what she was getting into.

  • @jenniehudson5742
    @jenniehudson5742 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    That jane woman had a crush on the music teacher,but because manox liked catherine,she was jealous.manox didn't like it when catherine met Dereham and yes,catherine had a relationship with him,but the other girls sneaked men into their rooms,do she probably didn't think too much of it.the gran and uncle had other plans for her ,used her as a status pawn,.she was sent to the Palace and was Anne of cleaves maid..there she met culpepper before the king noticed her.henry didn't like Anne of cleaves and made catherine his wife.by then,Dereham turned up at the Palace.mary labelles probably refused to go to the Palace because she and catherine didn't like each other over Manor and she probably urged her brother to write to the archbishop out of spite.the archbishop had a political agenda and reckless catherine paid the price with her life.her lovers and maid were executed,but Manor and her uncle got away with things.manox was nothing but a paedo who abused her.her gran and uncle should have known better

  • @sharoncole8249
    @sharoncole8249 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    💖👑👑💖xx

  • @Carlene126
    @Carlene126 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Claire, what's wrong with your arm? I hope nothing serious.

  • @annwilliams6438
    @annwilliams6438 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I wonder if she thought that by having an affair with Culpepper that she could conceive a child and thus be guaranteed ongoing favour from Henry? Did Culpepper look similar to Henry?

    • @andreadelikat2220
      @andreadelikat2220 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      They were all related in some way, and with Henry being so old I think that that could have been some way she justified it to herself

    • @darianrose2195
      @darianrose2195 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      Good theory. At some point, it's said Henry was angry that his young wife wasn't yet pregnant and refused to let her see him for a week or two. Imagine trying to get pregnant by a grotesque stinky older man AND have to deal with his unrealistic expectations. Conceiving isn't always some one and done deal. My husband and I have been trying for months and I have friends who have tried for even longer. We now know that stress can delay it, so I'm sure his temper didn't help.

  • @ruthgoebel723
    @ruthgoebel723 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yes, Catherine was young, but it was common for young girls to marry back in that time. I believe if Catherine would have had proper parental guidance fro those who were ‘caring’ for her, she would have been less promiscuous and careless about who she took to her bed.

  • @Dawnsdelightsart
    @Dawnsdelightsart 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    There's evidence that she was abused in that way as a young girl. Poor thing died because men took advantage of her.

    • @anneboleynfiles
      @anneboleynfiles  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      There actually isn't any evidence that she was abused. She had a romance with her music tutor, who appears to have just been a few years older than her. He was not alone with her during lessons but they arranged meetings outside lessons and exchanged gifts and letters. There is nothing to suggest it was abuse. Then she had a full sexual relationship with Dereham, and there's nothing to suggest that was abusive. They exchanged letters, gifts, called each other husband and wife, Catherine stole the keys to the dormitory so the men could get in, and there were witnesses to their sexual relationship who make no mention of it being nonconsensual. Catherine shared a bed with another girl and the girl got very fed up with all the noise, the panting etc. and so asked another girl to swap beds. She would have noticed if Catherine was at all unhappy.

  • @deborahbrottmiller2948
    @deborahbrottmiller2948 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Big baby boo hoo

  • @stompthedragon4010
    @stompthedragon4010 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I did not like Culpepper.