Having worked for a Korean company, its easy to see how the culture can lead to this happening, hopefully younger generations will be able to overcome the dangers.
Let's remember, poor CRM did not cause this accident. it might have helped to save them, but was not the cause. Having instruments fail with zero visibility is no walk in the park. It's literally a death sentence that you may or may not recover from.
@@tensevo This is incorrect. CRM is the definate Cause of this accident. Bear in mind they had 2 good working ADI, and one bad one. Second off, this is not exactly a uncommon problem. ADIs fail, its why you got backups. I've had a ADI failure and it wasn't a big deal figuring out how to fly the plane without it. A experienced crew could figure this out in a heartbeat. Infact 2 crews prior to this one did just so. Further more in this episode, we know that the flight engineer ALSO did the same and that the first officer should have spoken up rather forcibly. As a pilot this is a rather easy non-issue to deal with especially considering they weren't in IMC even just nighttime, which isn't zero visability and even IF they were IMC, they still had the advantage of those 2 working ADIs. The cockpit recorder is VERY damning. The ONLY conclusion to draw from this IS what the report states which is poor CRM killed these pilots. I hate to say it but this crew if not during this accident, were they to come across another accident in a similar situation where only the junior officers had they had the correct information, they would have killed themselves just the same, a fact reflected by Air Korea's poor safety performance during those years.
I remember that Delta helped to convert the Korean cockpit culture to a more 'joint participation cockpit culture'. This was a very serious problem with KAL. Subsequently, the accident rate noticeably decreased. A very hard lesson learned for the Koreans. Great video.
I heard (read?) the Korean Airlines had the flight crew communicate among themselves in English. Apparently the Korean language reinforces the authoritarian nature they want to avoid in the cockpit. I just checked Google and apparently the new CEO of Korean Air changed the official language of the airline to English sometime prior to 2013. As you said, Korean Airline's safety record has improved a lot with this change and other CRM training.
As a physician on duty in an intensive care unit, I know well how essential it is to know how to listen to all the members of the team so that the shift flows and we can manage critical patients in the best way in order to help them in their recovery.
The animation at the end is really eerie. When you watch a 30 minute video about an incident like that and you analyze all the details of what has happened, you tend to forget how quickly everything unfolded. You think "how can that even happen?" and then you see it in real time.. tough to imagine being in that situation.
Yes I am a novice pilot. And the sequence of events in this flight are truly mind blowing. In my eyes, the captain had about 3 to 5 seconds to react to an instrument reading fault. But with the abundance of visual cues outside I think I know why they did not understand the bank angle immediately. Because the pilots are trained to trust and fly with their instruments and not visual or inertial cues. I am a novice pilot so for me everything is visual. And my plane is much more forgiving. Yet, these pilots were barely at fault. Take of is a very critical part of the flight. 600 or 900 ft above the ground does not give much time or room to maneuver.
That animation at the end around 35:01 still is chilling. Your explanation might have made it sound like it took a while for events to unfold but it all took place in nearly half a minute. The ATC wishing them good night to the impact just a while after would be a horrifying thought
I appreciate the below aspects of your video: 1. Your approach of speaking to the camera, which gives the watchers an experience as though you are directly talking to them, explaining to them, as opposed to hearing a voice in the background 2. You started with the history, leading up to the fatal events that unfolded. It felt easier to comprehend. 3. You avoided unnecessary over-dramatization that is normally a theme of such programs
4. Yet, you maintain the unbiased poignancy, giving insights on why certain individuals acted in certain ways. This creates a learning opportunity rather than cheap satisfaction you get by blaming it one one more more individuals.
I think there is a reason why this channel is called "Mentour Pilot". These videos are educational, not entertainment. And this makes it so much more interesting even for someone who is not a pilot.
Aircraft fly because of SCIENTIFIC FACTS ... not because of FEELINGS ... which is the basis for sensationalism and most current-day politics. If you want to stay alive and keep flying as a pilot you NEED the MINDSET OF FACTS AND LOGIC. *Emotions are the opposite of logic and reasoning!*
@@Muck006 Not the opposite but a separate and complementary sphere of mental activity. We engage in the scientific process of maximising safety only after and because we have emotionally decided that people are worth keeping alive. Science may be an objective and unemotional process but we engage in it for profoundly emotional reasons.
As a “civilian” that has no experience as, or intention to be, a pilot , I’m so appreciative that this resource is out there for the airline piloting profession. I just feel safer that this CRM principles are being promoted and emphasised in such a constructive manner. It’s incredible how quickly and how easily things can go wrong. 🙏 thanks!
As another civilian, I was slightly disturbed to see that the crew are reading repeaters of a single measuring device rather than having independent measuring devices. Still, there would be a question of which to believe.
No, it's incredible how _seldom_ airline accidents with fatalities happen today. This also will explain some of the accidents that still happen. The safer somebody feels, the less he will often be prepared for dangers.
@@HansDunkelberg1 also I paused at 12:41 just to stare at Captain Park Duk-Kyu's record. over 13K flight hours... over a year and a half in air. man... now that's a career pilot.... Hmmm is he the kind of person to go "enh, dunno what's wrong, but it's probably fine"? Hmm can't say.
I too like this material. I've probably watched every episode of air crash investigation. Some episodes more than once. Plus I watch 74 gear plus I watch this channel. I've never flown in an airplane a day in my life but I'm confident that I know more about flying than the average person does lol. Hell whenever I see an accident that has happened recently, from the small amount of info I might have, I start to diagnose what probably happened Lol. And I have these channels to thank for that
Honestly this is the best kind of these videos. Facts are told by an expert and nothing is overly dramatised. Just straight to the point and beautiful graphics. Love it keep up the good work
Aside from the highly professional storytelling, these videos succeed because of their humanity. You don't need a cast of thespians to bring to life the drama and heartbreak behind these accidents. This grabbed me because it dealt with the real time challenges facing the crew. I like the idea of getting the interpretations of an actual pilot over the stories of some writer filtered through a cast of actors. Different strokes, I guess. Thanks again!🐸
This video brought back some memories! I was in the cockpit jump seat on an arriving cargo airline flight. Due to a disabled aircraft blocking the main taxiway we had to wait for walking marshallers to help us use the alternate taxiway. While we waited I was listening to Korean asking to push but not allowed as they hadn’t yet filed a flight plan. We taxied very slow into the ramp and I believe we had about 10ft clearance between our wingtip and the Korean B747 wingtip. They departed after we had parked and by the time I’d got out of the terminal and into the car the news came over that Stansted was closed due to a crash. Of course the TV news broke the story before they had the details "Stansted Airport has been closed due to a major cargo airplane crash. Full news at 9pm." My parents were in panic until they found that it was a departing aircraft not arriving. When I got home and got the details I realized that it was the flight I had been listening to on the headset only 10-15 minutes before they crashed.
As the mother of a pilot in training, your videos have given me greater confidence in the innate safety of his vocation. Glad he is well rounded, handles crises well amd is a rational thinker under duress. Your videos show how important this is. It also gives me a glimpse into the cockpit and black box data analysis us immensely interesting! I speak for many of us who thank you for making the analysis of these accidents or anomalies available to the layperson as well as the professional aviators! Safe journeys!
Thank you! We are really trying to ramp up production value at the moment. You can really help us by sharing the videos on social media. It really helps 🙏
What I find hard to believe is with such an experienced Captain, when he kept putting left bank input and his bank indicator remained flat, why wouldn’t he have scanned the back up and the first officer’s indicator given the warning as well? Great video.
Whenever it comes time for you to mention that people died as a result of an accident, you always show respect with a bit of silence. I very much respect and appreciate that. Thank you.
As a young doctor your videos about CRM are so educational and insightful. I'm lucky that most teams I've worked with have created a high level of psychological safety for me to speak up about my concerns, so I'm gently corrected but not ridiculed when I'm wrong. That was not the case even 20 years ago. I'm glad both flying and medicine have improved so much in this respect :)
What perplexes me is that they fear authority more than death lmao. Seriously i was the FO i dont care how much experience the capt has, if he is a moron at that moment im overriding him and if he fights ill knock his ass out. If I lose my job so be it because I would still have my life.
CRM culture has an effect with patient voices, too. My primary care listens to my concerns and takes my input seriously. She's fully aware that she doesn't know everything. She knows that some patients are competent enough with computers, biology, and chemistry to do some of the basic leg work ahead of time. To me, it feels as though she treats my appointments as collaborative efforts. Of course, there's some things I can't know, and I'm willing to admit it, but I think that's part of what makes the collaborative style of treatment work so well.
As a potential patient and airplane passenger, I am doubly thankful. Perhaps that is reason enough to pay a little extra to fly with the high cost airlines?
Hi Jayashri. As a senior doctor in the British NHS, I was involved until I retired in improving the NHS safety culture. I do NOT believe that importing lessons from the aviation industry has been particularly helpful in British hospital healthcare. Most of the many incidents I was involved with did indeed show the 'Swiss cheese' effect but a common theme was the very poor support infrastructure - supply, administrative, repair, technical... things like poor IT, badly designed processes for alerting hi-risk test results, dreadful levels of understaffing and very poor support staff training. It was like an airline that made no effort to monitor and improve performance of mechanics, technical support - or an airport that didn't train the refuellers or the police & security people, the guys who repair the runways and so and exclusively focussed on pilot training and CRM. Radically improving quality in the support infrastructure is VERY expensive - too expensive for the British government's Department of Health who found it cheaper to continue a 'blame culture' - to believe that patient safety was improved not by investment but by threats to and intimidation of the staff. It speaks volumes that Dr James Reason (mentioned in the video) was very popular for a while in the NHS until the COSTS of implementing his policies became clear. Dr Reason is no longer popular - or even discussed.
You should go over how aircraft fire fighting works, there are some very good videos of incidents but no real explanation of what they are doing and why.
Fantastic video! As an ex-flight attendant with an East Asian carrier, I really appreciate the explanation on the dynamics at play in terms of hierarchy between crew members and employees, which are a recurrent problem due to culture. Also and more generally, I really love learning more about the flying and that this channel makes it accessible to all.
I'm an ex-F/A myself and will never tire of aviation's complexity, from trade to engineering and culture. "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things can not be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one’s lifetime" Marl Twain Innocents Abroad.
I too appreciate the direct eye contact, and the feeling that we're sitting in my living room while you tell me this story. As a guy who frequently has to troubleshoot systems and failures caused by the actions (or inactions) of others, I also really, really appreciate the careful phrasing - rather than "the first officer did not do the thing" - which requires a certain amount of speculation - you say "there is no indication that the first officer did the thing", which is verifiable statement of fact. (Maybe he pushed this switch or pulled that lever, but it chose that exact moment to fail spectacularly, and so recorded nothing on the data recorder, and was coincidentally moved back (or destroyed) in the ensuing crash. What we know for sure is "there is no indication".) When you do choose to speculate, you're always careful to say you're speculating, but provide a reasonable basis to justify it. (The FO on this flight did not say anything in the last few seconds; this is verifiable, but the reason requires speculation, and "just got chewed out by a far senior captain" is far more likely than "picked that evening to start sniffing glue". You're speculating, but with a reasonable basis.)
Thank you very much for "Mentour Pilor" TH-cam channel! :) As a someone with Korean background (although I have been living in the United States for the most part of my life), I was particularly attracted to the portion of this video lecture covering the "power gradient". One of the major issues that South Koreans must confront in our time: power gradient. Traditionally, the Koreans have been very top-down--i.e., very hierarchical, high power gradient. If you are somewhat familiar with the Korean culture, you might have noticed some of the manifestation of the Koreans' power gradient--e.g., rather steep male-female inequality (although not as extreme as in South Asia and the Middle East) and also rather steep boss-to-subordinate inequality, relative to Europe and North America. Meanwhile, why am I fascinated by airline disasters? 1. Just to be able to operate an aircraft, as well as to make it to accomplish whatever task it and its crews are intended, they requires both human-and-technology and human-and-human interactions. I interpret this set of requirements as a microcosm of the very reality all of us are facing. 2. Cascading failures: I have noticed that, whether it be an airline or something even more catastrophic, if it experiences cascading failures, then: "We're going down"; "I know"; ...(End of flight voice recording. Period.) Airline disasters seem to provide the most vivid and immediate real-life examples of cascading failures.
The visual quality of your videos is getting higher and higher with every upload man. Great job, I really enjoy these videos even more than the older ones. And I love how you always keep improving.
@@MentourPilot keep up the great work captain!! 😉 your work is amazing and it’s really engaging with all the cool sound effects and animations is just beyond amazing
It reminds me of Tenerife with Van Zanten's annoyance at diversion and delay somehow. A highly experienced captain intimidates everyone else even when they know they are going to die they won't speak up. CRM is there for a purpose but interpersonal relationships between crewmembers can make this very, very difficult.
one would almost think that such a captain, knowing that this is the case, would explicitly speak to his crew saying that if he does something stupid, take every effort to alert him up to and including shouting in his face.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Unfortunately the culture in flight crew back then in Korea (and the Far East) is that deference, even when facing certain death, means that the junior crew won't speak up. As a British pilot, it sounds preposterous to go to certain death passively but culture plays a very important role even now after these crashes. It's not restricted to just the Far East, in the case of Tenerife the KLM captain Van Zanten was such a twat that he bullied his crew into staying silent even when they weren't sure if they had T/O clearance. Fortunately CRM has come a long way and junior crew aren't afraid to speak up and report CRM breaches as a result of these crashes. The safety systems and polices in place today mean that such aggressive crew will be retrained and that junior crew will no longer be passive. At least in theory. The Pakistan AirBlue A321 crash was pretty much a repeat of Koreanair where a junior pilot was bullied and silenced by an egotistical wanker of a captain. Me personally, I would ignore culture and take control from the captain who was going to kill us all but would many F/Os have the guts to do that? It's a conundrum that even in the new millennium shows that CRM has a long way to go.
What a shame the first officer knew what was going to happen. I’m a senior manager in IT , but I’ll always engage my junior guys in big decisions. Reason? They’re smart and sharp.
I totally agree, I have been following this channel for years now, and the content has always been very high quality, but somehow Mentour Pilot manages to make it even more interesting as the years go by. If I could afford it, I would pay him for his excellent work, but I am poor ("en fattigrøv" som vi siger både på dansk og svenskt) so I just ride along for free. Thankyou, Petter, keep it coming!!!!
I’ve got friends and family in the village of Great Hallingbury. It crashed in the field behind my friends house - literally a hundred metres away - they were so scared. Their power was knocked out for weeks. Great Hallingbury is a lovely little country village - a different world from Stansted, even though they are only about 0.5 DME from the 04 threshold (05 in those days). I was on the Stansted airport train coming home from London after work. We were stuck on the train midway due to a “major incident”. I’ve walked with my brother and our dogs around the crash site on many occasions. You couldn’t even tell anything unusual happened. RIP.
Thank god that this was a cargo flight, and not passenger service, nor impacted a populated area. Tragic as it is, it could have been SO much worse. Thank you for the valuable lesson, and RIP to the KAL crew.
I love the 747 but over this models life there have been 63 hull loss incidents over their 30 life of 1570 total units, that's about one in 25. Say you were FO and then captain on one for 30 years, and typically fly half or a third of those hops. The you have a 1 in 50 to 1 in 75 chance of being one of those unfortunate crews...no so great odds for crewman....
@@wokewokerman5280 This is super misleading. There have been 63 hull losses per plane made? Those two data points have nothing to do with each other. Try hull loss incidents per flights flown. They are extremely safe. To further illustrate my point, lets say Boeing sees your stat then say "Make 1570 more 747s!" Your stat has changed, but the safety of the air plane has not.
@@wokewokerman5280 They are safe. 747s are always in the air, last year 30+ 747s had more than 100k hours or eleven years of airtime. If you factor out maintenance and pilot errors accidents per airtime are very low.
I worked in the cargo area about 3 years after the incident, apparently the flight engineer wanted to wait and fix the fault with a brand new part (which meant a delay) but the captain refused, and as the video suggests, no one questions the captains decision and proceeded to normal leaving procedures.
I definitely remember you mentioning about this accident in an Angry Mentour episode about a 737 pilot berating the first officer in an ATC recording and how breaking the CRM in such kind of behavior can lead to an accident like this.
I was coming home on my motorcycle up the M11 to the Stanstead junction, when I got there, all was in darkness and the eye witnesses in the traffic queue were really shaken 'biggest explosion I've ever seen' and the like. Filtering my way onto the A120 and fire trucks were desperately trying to find the correct tiny country lanes to get to the scene. A miracle no-one on the ground was killed, could have been so much worse.
I live in E Anglia and that night I happened to be watching the news as soon as it broke. I remember my first thoughts were "I hope it didn't land on any houses", swiftly followed by "I hope it didn't land on the M11 or 25" (it wasn't initially clear exactly where it had come down and you can get to the 25 in minutes flying directly). It's a tragedy that the 4 died, it was a bloody miracle that it wasn't more.
I too was on the M11, in a wagon, and saw the fireball. I rang my mate to check the news (he listened to a different radio station) to try and confirm what I suspected. To this day (and I hope it stays so) it is the nearest I have ever been to an air accident.
At the time I worked for the company that had just loaded it. I was standing on the loading dock of the warehouse loading the freight that had been off loaded onto lorries. I didn't see the impact as I was focused on loading the lorries, when the ground shook and the machine that stores the pallets shut down and the emergency brakes came on. When I looked around the lorry I never saw the fireball, I saw a huge fountain of sparks or embers. Initially myself and the drivers assumed that the petrol garage in the services just past the end of the runway had exploded. Soon word came back as to what had happened. My colleague who was driving the pallet storeing machine left work and went home to see if he still had a wife and house. The plane crashed only a few hundred yards from his house and his wife was supposed to be home, but had been held up in traffic so got home just after the crash. Some items had fallen off shelves, but his wife and house survived. Thankfully it crashed into the woodland behind his house. Another colleague was on his way to start his shift and said that the plane had flown low over his car "and didn't look right".
This accident shows the importance of performing root-cause analysis when fixing defects in any field. The fact that the attitude indicator worked correctly when switching to the alternate INU should have alerted the engineer that the problem is not with the indicator. He should have followed the issue to the INU and fixed it.
It indicated that the problem was not with the indicator itself, yes, but that's not the same as the INU being faulty. Do the two INUs have seperate cable inputs connecting them to the indicator, or do the INU cables join up outside of it? Because if they are separate and the apparently faulty connection was on the INU 1 input, then it was a valid potential root cause. The real failure here was not properly testing the system after the repair. The observed faulty behaviour was a failure to register a roll; there *was* no indicated error when the aircraft was on the ground prior to the fix.
As a junior AME, mainly a refueler, in the early 80s in Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada. I was so impressed by how the flight crew of the 737’s treated me with respect and dignity when I brought the fuel report to the pilot. I in coveralls and they looking so professional. All smiles and friendly, yet so very thorough.
Commercial aviation depends on a team. No one person can do everything, and so it is right that every member of the team respects what the other members bring to it.
Nine months late, but I can attest to that too. I’m an aircraft cleaner and ramper (ground crew) and in the year and a half I’ve worked, I’ve never been treated badly by the pilots and flight attendants. They’ve always been very respectful of me and even freely helped me out a few times and vice versa. Ahh the stories I could tell! I’ll settle for just one. We’d just finished cleaning a Dreamliner and we had all gotten into our cleaning van and we’re waiting for our supervisor to finish doing the water truck duties so he can drive us to the next aircraft. It’s the middle of summer so we have the windows down. And then we look out the window and see the captain descending down the steps. We’re curious but nothing else… until this senior captain reaches the bottom of the steps and it becomes apparent that we’re his intended target. Near panic breaks out amongst us cleaners because the pilots seldom talk to us. If we miss a spot or don’t do a section of aircraft to satisfaction it’s always the flight attendants who correct us or call us back. Logically then, if the captain is coming for us, someone has ROYALLY screwed up. 🤣 I swear, a couple of my colleagues were probably thinking about bailing out the other side. And then the captain reaches us. There’s a silence as he looks at us. Our eyes meet. So, almost casually I asked “Uhh.. hello captain. What can we do for you?” I’m mentally bracing myself because now I’ve just gone and unofficially nominated myself as group speaker. But instead of the tongue lashing I’m expecting, this captain takes on a very polite, respectful and entreating tone and explains that the last crew had left the cockpit in a bit of a mess and would we kindly clean it? I’m astonished, and slightly hesitant because none of us (yet) had the proper cockpit cleaning training. It’s a forbidden zone. It must have been blatant that he’d just blindsided me because he gave me the seconds I needed to process and answer. Finally I agreed to do it on the condition that either he or his FO supervised me-so I didn’t accidentally press something or break the multi million pound aircraft. He was very happy to accept my terms, so I hopped out of the van, grabbed my supplies and equipment and followed him back aboard. And yes, it was a mess which included spilled drink on the carpet which took a while to clean. He was the one supervising me while the FO did the walk around-then they kind of milled in the doorway until I was done. He even walked me back out to the van, expressing his gratitude and getting my employee details to commend me. And to explain to my supervisor since he’d returned to pick us up by now. Fun times.
I have had a moment of clarity before Bad Things happen; the quiet voice makes sense to me. Once I lost the front tire of my bicycle - it rolled off the rim - in a 35 mph downhill turn. I seemed to hang in the air for a moment. At first I thought, uh-oh. Just that... a quiet thought. Then I realized how good I felt in that instant, nothing hurt although it would less than a second later. Such is fate.
I know there were many factors, but when I heard the flight engineer saying Bank! Bank! I thought of flight envelope protection, and that the engineer is now replaced with a computer.
I just cannot understand why the engineer suppressed his self-preservation instinct by letting things happen that way. He seemed to be the only one who realized whats going on. Screw authority when it is a question of life an death! But I am a german, not a korean. Different cultures. Very different indeed. Thanks for the great video.
In my experience, Germans also had (and in many areas, still have) that culture of unquestionable authority. Must we have to force everyone who refuse to let authority be challenged into a blind cargo plane?
Korean culture is very different. It's heavily influenced by neo-Confucianism and is very autocratic where people are defential to authority even in instances where they shouldn't be. I lived there for 4 years and repeatedly experienced scenarios where a Korean couldn't or wouldn't challenge a person in power. As the story progressed I predicted the power dynamic at play that likely played into this incident. I'm not at all surprised.
CRM seems to be a real issue with Korean Airlines over the years there have been a number of such failures and when you stop and think about it, it sheds another light on the whole Nut rage incident that the airline had in 2014
Another excellent presentation. QUESTION: whenever I have been a passenger on an aircraft I have always been able to physically feel when it was banking. Furthermore just looking out of the window even at night gives you a different horizon perspective. I don't understood how an experienced captain could not tell that the aeroplane was indeed banking, and continued to put in more bank. Am I missing something?
You can't actually tell your banking angle if you have a turn at the same time, as when it's properly executed the resulting G force vector (natural gravity + centripetal force from the turn) will be straight down your middle. What you do feel is the initiation as a slight acceleration in the roll plane. But with turbulence, like they had, this can easily be masked. You must have visual queues, or functioning instruments, to know what's going on.
Same thoughts!! It's hard to understand how, with just 1 faulty instrument out of 3 and 3 pilots in the cockpit, this accident has happened!!! As a passenger i perceive very well any moderate roll of the airplane!
@@spaghetti_groove you have to remember that our perception, as passengers, of what the plane is doing comes from a position in the rear of the plane looking out the side windows only, whereas the pilots are up near the nose looking primarily towards the front. As passengers, our role is passive, pilots on the other hand are multitasking, especially during takeoff and landing. I do not have extensive flight experience, but I know my perception of what’s happening when I’m a passenger in a more forward seat is different from when I’m a passenger more towards the rear. Much like when we drove our van from the Midwest to the East Coast with our four children to visit my sister and her family, and my husband and I took turns rotating to the back seat so that the children could rotate seat partners and the older two had chances to ride up front and observe as they were approaching driving age. My perception of my husband’s driving was was different while riding in the back row compared to riding in the front passenger seat.
Yes, you are missing the fact that they were in cloud. You can only feel the bank, if you are looking out into clear sky and then your brain tells you, you can feel the bank.
As a passenger, I just want to profess my gratitude for these videos. I love learning the intricacies of this profession and the problem solving that goes on behind the scenes that we never see. These crashes and incident videos actually make me feel safer flying on an aircraft aswell due to some of these circumstances along all the corrective actions that have been taken. Thank you for your time doing these videos, they are appreciated.
Captain, this really is one of the better accident explanations I’ve seen and heard. Great walk-through and animations for the novice like me to comprehend! 👌🏻
As a passenger I've been in a plane that banked so hard before landing and then corrected itself that I could swear the right wing was a foot and a half from a wingstrike, and then I've seen a private jet fly within 100-200 feet of our plane as they pass right behind us. Those are the two near accidents I've seen first hand. Fortunately they never amounted to anything.
You've mentioned this so often, the importance of cooperation, respect and open communication. You've repeatedly given credit to cabin crew for their handling of emergencies; and I think this applies to many situations in life, if people work together, if people can speak up and feel valued, results will be better. You're teaching valuable life lessons, thank you.
So interesting to hear this one. I lived about 4 miles away from Stansted Airport all of my childhood up untill I was 29. My family were at home that day and heard the massive crash sound even about 8 miles away, it was a huge boom that shook the whole house. It's so sad to see what actually happened 🙁 at least the pilots wouldn't have felt a thing, that's one small glimmer from such a sad story.
Considering most Aircraft Investigation series have been scrubbed of the internet, these have become my new favorite digestible series. I'd love to hear about TWA 800 and your theories of a potential missile-strike.
@@BjorgenEatinger Presumably the copies on the internet were unauthorized, and the copyright owner has been issuing take-down requests. It's a popular series, so their income would be impacted by having it freely available.
The channel called ‘ Wonder ‘ have uploaded them on TH-cam. I access them with my VPN. As they aren’t available in the UK for some reason. Hope this helps. Although I think this channel does better explanation videos than ACI.
As technician fixing relatively complicated machines i have this so often...: Y ou search for ages for the reason for a problem. And then you find it! Everything fits! it makes perfect logical sense that THAT issue would have cause THAT problem! Definitely it!!! And maybe you know it has before! So happily you fix the issue. And you start the machine.... and you have the same problem. It's the exception not the rule, ususally you're right, especially with experience. But it DOES happen to everybody and i stopped many years ago to be fooled or to assume anything. And waste time and maybe don't call help, checking other things, while i'm busy because i'm so fixed on one trail. But even so, if i'm wrong, we lose a bit of productivity, nothing more. Which is the end of the world for some office person but nobody else is hurt. I also leave a note for the next shift, that it happened. So if it's only temporarily fixed, they know i did THIS already and don't waste time trying the same. And maybe test the machine before it's used....
I’m an independent software engineer; and rather a while ago I installed a little script into one of my projects that increments a counter every time I build & run the program (for those not versed in the details of software development, the basic cycle that you go through is edit, build, run, crash, take a guess from the crash report the machine spits out at you, and go back to the editing step). Last I looked, I’m well over ten thousand on that counter... and a lot of those are from precisely what you describe: I thought the previous edit should have fixed the issue (which is why I hit the build-and-run button in the first place)... but, nope, it didn’t. 😐
It happens very similarly in the medical field, as well. You are certain you know what the problem is and get fixated on solving it your way, even when what you are doing clearly isn't working. It's crucial to stop to re-evaluate from time to time and call for help early, before the situations deteriorates too far.
I had to change a main engine control 4 times on the same jet engine in a row, with slightly different problems related to the MEC each time. Each time, we troubleshot thoroughly only to find it should be the MEC that's the issue again. We started questioning ourselves, questioning our troubleshooting, and questioning our abilities. Our bosses started doing the same. Felt horrible, and we hated doing the same big job over and over again. The only thing we could come up with was that we kept getting bad MECs out of supply. It was not unheard of, we'd had to do several MEC changes multiple times in the past for that reason. But our 5th MEC? Unheard of. Finally, to avoid turning the plane into a hanger queen for being grounded so long while we troubleshot, and after deep unusual troubleshooting with engineer recommendations, they finally decided to just pull the trigger on a whole engine change. By then, we'd spent way more effort on MEC changes than a single engine change wouldve taken. The engine was impounded for investigation took a year, with every engineer in CFM and Boeing curious about the results. Nobody believed us that it could be 5 bad MECs in a row. After a year of investigation... It was determined to be 5 bad MECs in a row (or at least most of them were bad. The ones we turned in got investigated too. Pretty sure the MEC depot finally got fucked for it). Furthermore, and even worse, they found a piece of safety wire deep in the engine that was left behind during a depot rebuild had magnetized the wheel for the N1 speed sensor. Even if we'd had a good MEC, the engine would have always had power/throttle problems till it could be torn down. We felt vindicated. There was no way to test for this issue on a flightline, let alone fix it. It always would have needed an engine change.
Can completely relate to this. I work in maintenance in a completely different field (where thankfully no lives are at stake, only time and money). A lot of the time I'm out in the "field" and have to deal with problems while only having a very limited set of spare parts with me. Once I'm past the "it's most likely this part so let's just swap if first and see" stage, diagnosing stuff can be a pain. For most workaround or diagnosing steps, I have to account for and expect that the "new" part I'm trying might also be defective because I'm trying parts and cables from in-production equipment and not actually new parts.
@@vasilivh Absolutely. A vet was faced with a lame horse I knew. They x-rayed the lame leg going down from the top until they found a hairline crack in a bone, then stopped and gave directions for support, rest, etc to treat that crack. When the horse didn't improve as expected, the owner called in another vet, who came out and they x-rayed the leg beyond the crack the first vet had found, right down to the hoof. I bet you can see where this is going already.... yep, there was another, worse crack. Thankfully the second (rather more competent) vet's treatment did the trick and the horse recovered.
I would never have imagined that a TH-cam creator could be so nice, genuine and easy to listen to - while telling us about four people dying in a fireball. Seriously, your channel is excellent and I really enjoy your presentation style. Thanks.
So well researched and beautifully presented. You know what I love the most? The in-game in-cockpit visuals. And overall visuals. I don't know how long your videos take to make but they are of superb quality, really amazing work!
I was a ground engineer for many years. It is a standard procedure to replace the ADI if the failure report just contain the information that the ADI doesn't work. On ground all one can do is replacing the ADI and perform the self test. So I see no misbehaviour of the technician replacing the ADI. My dad, far over 30.000 flight hours on all kind of planes (from Bf 109 to DC8) would turn in his grave seeing what the crew did. A captain unable to do a proper instrument flight, not responding to warning sounds and lights and a first officer so intimidated that he prefers to die instead of taking action. Horrible! Thank god that this crew did only fly cargo! Brilliant video, thanks for sharing. Regards from Austria, Steve
I work at Stansted and dealt with the cargo paperwork for this flight. I was just leaving the office to go home when the crash happened and I can certainly attest to the explosion forming a mushroom cloud. 300ft high! The impact was so heavy it shook the whole airport including the terminal building where police officers were concerned a bomb had detonated . One aspect not covered was the additional problem of poor visibility. Aswell as being dark, there would've been no visual light references on the ground as the cloudbase was around 900ft in light rain. By the time the aircraft had accelerated at speed down from around its max achieved altitude of 2700ft and broken cloud its fate was already decided. All quite shocking on my doorstep!
Excellent depiction of the accident. Simulation at the end really helped to understand how fast the situation developed and how small amount of time there is for a reaction. It really helps to understand what is behind the training and how fast death/life decisions have to be made.
I'm really enjoying this new series. Very well done. The Chapter format works exceptionally well, and the detailed "inside baseball" perspective as an ATP pilot is wonderfully informative.
i never thought i'd be interested in aviation this much so big compliments on sucking me into binging your professional and educational reports I never realized how damn important a good team spirit is among the pilots and crew in a critical moment like this, as a former firefighter i can see many similarities with that job but almost never this extreme in such a short timeframe.
I had a flying lesson (2 seater) for my 60th, which was fantastic! The pilot told me to close my eyes as he took over and asked what I could feel, nothing I said, open your eyes, we were flying at 90° and I felt nothing! It helps me understand more watching your fantastic videos and how the airline industry acts on failures. Pity about other industries...... Also, full simulation print at bottom of screen hard to read. Thank you for sharing your precious knowledge!
I was always taught the chain and breaking the chain of events. The Swiss cheese model took me some time to get used to but it really makes sense. Thank you for everything you do Mr. mentor pilot
United 232 was and is an excellent example of CRM at its finest, unlike what you had here. No disrespect for the deceased crew. May they rest in peace.
..Let's remember, poor CRM did not cause this accident. it might have helped to save them, but was not the cause. Having instruments fail with zero visibility is no walk in the park. It's literally a death sentence that you may or may not recover from.
I see a lot of parallels with the incident of Alitalia AZ404 that happened here in Zurich about 30 years ago. One faulty instrument (glide slope) on the PIC side and poor CRM lead to the aircraft to undershoot the ILS path and crash into a mountain. On that instance the co-pilot even initiated a go-around that was interrupted by the pilot...
Again, this is where the company culture has to step up - the captain needs to know that they are going to have a difficult conversation with their boss if they don't do around when the FO calls for it (assuming that there is no justifiable reason that a landing must be made from that approach).
I cannot express how much I love the way you break these down. Thank you for including all the information necessary to understand what actually happened in these events.
The Aircraft Accident Investigation series you do is absolutely addicting to watch. Explanations, opinions, facts. I appreciate every bit of the way you format these stories.
The sponsor is blinkist, a service that concentrates a book of 200 pages to about 10 minutes, and the book you recommend is called "The things you can only see when you slow down"? Come on, you are trolling your sponsor!
So in depth and understandable. What interest me in these videos is not the tragic or any morbid curiosity, it’s the step by step detective breakdown of events
Well if there was ever a perfect recipe for an accident this one must be it. Improper maintenance procedure, improper logging and log trace procedures and a FO & flight engineer who quite clearly felt they could not question what the captain was doing even though both must have realised the bank was getting out of control. Another excellent production Captain Petter, you are now my favourite accident investigation explainer. There is one I'd love you to look into for me, but I will have to look up dates, airline, etc. Have a good weekend, stay safe
The production value of these accident review videos is excellent. The graphics aren’t just eye candy, they make the material more engaging and provide a solid “2nd dimension” if you will, to go along with your narration. I also very much appreciate hearing your perspective as a pilot and CRM advocate on these events. Human factors and human interface design are deeply fascinating subject areas, still too often treated in aircraft design as one-to-one replaceable with tech/automation, without fully assessing there are still humans interacting with these systems. Maybe time for us to start thinking about CRM as not just between human pilots, but designing a/c, training pilots, and treating the automation as if it were a third decision-making crew member on the flight deck.
Maybe I'm missing something about this accident. How can the captain, an experienced pilot, ignore his instruments and fly his plane in to the ground? As soon as he noticed his ADI was not indicating the bank he was inputting into the controls why would he not immediately check one of the other ADI and see the plane was in fact in a bank? Would seem that if your instruments don't indicate what you expect first step would be check your backup instruments. Also, even though this flight was at night why couldn't the captain see out the window they were in fact in a bank? Visibility was good, right? The lights of the city should have been visible.
I was thinking the same thing. How you could do a 90 degree bank and not notice is beyond me. It'd be like if I was in my car and the speedometer got stuck at 30 mph. I doubt that I'd red line at 120 and not think it was broke.
Recently got my CPL. At night when you are climbing out you can't really see the outside because of the pitch. All the lights you see during take off disappears. He should have been able to see it during the bank though but I don't know if he was flying towards or away from the city. Probably just got fixated too much on his instruments because of the warning noise. This is straight after take off so a lot of things could be going through his head at this point. But I do agree on why he didn't check his back up instruments because that's why they are there.
London Stansted airport is in a rural location well away from the London conurbation. Most of what he could see of the ground was probably dark. It's not like Heathrow or City - Stansted is surrounded by fields, small towns and villages.
@@michaelkobylko2969 Yeah, but if you have a lot of experience with a vehicle, don't you get a feeling for it ? Professional drivers, as I was, rely on their "popometer". That is, their body becomes one with the vehicle. They know exactly whether the engine is fine or not, because they can feel the vibrations in their bum. They know instinctively how to turn, accelerate or break, they do not need to look at their speedometer to know if they are too fast. If the car "banks" they know it immediately.
You presumably have a team working on these vids - as well as your excellent presentation, the graphics are really clear, the editing very smooth (with the charming exception of your magic dog appearing and disappearing!). I'm fascinated by these stories - greatly admiring air crews' skills and courage, and horrified by the human losses. Thank you.
The simulation at the end was very interesting...in fact I noticed that from the captain's point of view, it's very easy to get so focused on the faulty instrument without even looking at other sources of information. This guy was so sure he knew what he was doing that he didn't listen to anyone else and was totally zoned in on what he was doing.
I agree 100%. I hate those documentaries that dwell in a deeply unsavoury way on the personal aspects, from which we can learn nothing to stop accidents and save lives in the future, and which in common decency should be left in privacy for those involved. It's either prurience or deflection from the fact that too many documentary makers are too lazy to get down into unearthing, understanding, and explaining the detailed facts.
*In Korean Culture the older person is ALWAYS right. Working with many Koreans I can totally see this attitude becoming a problem. I worked for this one guy who had no idea what he was doing it was his first time, but rather than listen would constantly make mistakes until I got fed up and started saying "Should have listened told you so, I was right wasn't I?" To the point where I just couldnt work for him. Also another guy older then me with no experience I was excellent at what I was doing and had been for years would go ask the other guy because he was older, like it damaged his pride to listen to someone half his age* Honor and pride : the stories of them stabbing themselves with knives because of honor thats a real thing if not with a knife but with their wallet. Ridiculous customs.
Great effort. The unemotional and down-to-earth style makes these videos more enjoyable (as far as it goes when deaths are involved) than the overdramatized aircraft crash investigation reports on TV 👍🏻
As a seasoned passenger, but not aviator, I follow many of the aircraft accident TouTube channels, primarily because of the extensive investigation and analysis of causes of such accidents. Your channel is far and above all others because of your experience and analysis of causation and the investigations themselves. Your close attention to human factors, including but not limited CRM issues,
I just cant believe how amazing you really are at these videos. To me, no one explains these accidents with as much heart and humanity as you do. I have no doubt you are an amazing pilot as well as check Airman and instructor. As a 25 year veteran FA , I wish I had the oppty to fly with you. Thank you so much!
I have just visited the crash site around two weeks back. I work for korean air cargo at heathrow and some of my colleagues were actually involved in helping the investigators out back in 1999 including voice recorder translations. Some debris can still be found in the surrounding swamps. A very gloomy experience. Thanks for putting in this much effort to cover this accident.
I could tell by your tone in the video that this meant something to you, not only because you are always very passionate about CRM... Thanks for sharing, this was actually a pretty dramatic episode!
My biggest impression is how quickly it all happened when watching the simulation at the end. They really only had seconds to react (or not) to events as they unfolded.
Terrible CRM is why I stopped flying KAL, early '90's. Their trail of crashes in those days told the story well enough and I didn't want to be on the next one. Excellent video(s), thank you.
Thank you for the simulation at the end. When you describe all the details it seems so obvious and like there is so much time while the simulation really drives home how quickly you need to remedy such a situation before it's too late and how much other stuff there is going on. Very sad.
I love this channel. Not a pilot and not employed in the aviation industry but find it absolutely intriguing and you do an excellent job of explaining everything in a way that's interesting and entertaining.
Ineffective maintenance on the ground, a captain who ignores comparitor warnings and fixates on his own instrument readings as the only truth, a FO who doesn't mention his own instruments are clearly showing the bank, and a FE who also realizes the bank is happening and says something but is ignored by everyone. What a huge, avoidable tragedy. Anyway, another excellent, well-informed, thoughtful analysis - thank you for your fine work.
It's pretty much "BUllying" by an ex-military senior pilot, that don't respect younger FO's - not uncommon and it's led to other tragic crashes. Not just on Asian carriers.
@@toma60641 because I lived in Asia, America and Europe. And yes, east Asia is orders of magnitude worse, hierarchy is baked deeply into the culture and even languages. America is also bad, but not nearly as bad in this regard. Sweden probably had the flattest society I have seen so far.
I agree and disagree. When I worked in aerospace it was mainly for a Japanese company, and I saw many examples of a cultural tendency to fixed hierarchy and so on. However, there was some awareness of this issue and there were efforts to mitigate. The situation in my previous (British, non-aerospace) employer was far worse in which an authoritarian culture was leading to endless problems and several fatal incidents.
I've never been in an airplane because I'm too afraid of them. There is a morbid part of me that looks up airplane crashes on TH-cam out of sheer fascination, so at some point, I found your "accident explanation" videos, and I'm so glad I did. My phobia aside, your explanations are not only technically informative, but super interesting. I've gone from being someone who was only looking to see scary footage to someone who is now deeply interested in learning about the reasons for such accidents. In my opinion, there's no better channel when it comes to details and insight. Somehow I'm less afraid of flying now that I've listened to you. Thanks for all that you do.
It is very possible to overcome your fear of flying, if it's holding you back from things that you want to do in life, such as preventing you from visiting certain places or people. Counselling is available and I believe some airlines even run charter flights for people who are afraid of flying, to allow them the experience of flying without the pressure of "If I don't get on this plane, my expensive holiday is cancelled." Of course, if it's not causing you any harm, there's no need to do anything.
I don’t like flying myself but thankfully I wasn’t that scared that I wouldn’t get on a plane. I hope you overcome your fears. If for no other reason than the sense of achievement. The sense of ‘ I’ve beaten this fear, I’m stronger than I thought ‘. Good luck with it. 👍👍
This channel is better than the Smithsonian shows that I love, because we also get to geek out on the aviation side of things and get the direct perspective of an airline pilot.
I had a flight instructor during my privates (USA) who was from South Korea and she was very harsh and that was good for many reasons. But the first couple times she would get intense and condescending to me, I would freeze up and not be able to process what I needed to do. I went on autopilot basically. It was good to get that feeling and learn to deal with it but it took me longer to learn with her than other CFIs I have had before and since her. The culture is so different and harsh. I think there almost needs to be a little bit of special training for cultures like that.
I hope they translate this video into Korean and other languages, and make it part of the CRM training materials for any nation with a strongly hierarchical societal culture - I'm sure you could contact some folk about making this happen!
I am sure CRMs of all countries do this already, esp Korean airlines bcz it happened there only... The countries with cultural hierarchies know the problem... They definitely do case studies of accidents all over the globe...
Regarding your comment at 30:40: The "instrument as such" is not the indicator or display in cabin, but the INU. That is precisely the confusion that lead to the accident. We must ensure profesionals in aviation have this clear. I'd suggest putting a graphical note in that minute. All in all your video es very good.
The Guam crash was highlighted in Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers". Specifically Chapter 7: "The Ethnic Theory of Plane Crashes". The other chapters are great too, BTW.
Having worked for a Korean company, its easy to see how the culture can lead to this happening, hopefully younger generations will be able to overcome the dangers.
Let's remember, poor CRM did not cause this accident. it might have helped to save them, but was not the cause.
Having instruments fail with zero visibility is no walk in the park. It's literally a death sentence that you may or may not recover from.
Actually this video is specifically trying to highlight the poor crm. Any problem can become disaster with poor crm.
@@tensevo This is incorrect. CRM is the definate Cause of this accident.
Bear in mind they had 2 good working ADI, and one bad one.
Second off, this is not exactly a uncommon problem. ADIs fail, its why you got backups. I've had a ADI failure and it wasn't a big deal figuring out how to fly the plane without it. A experienced crew could figure this out in a heartbeat. Infact 2 crews prior to this one did just so. Further more in this episode, we know that the flight engineer ALSO did the same and that the first officer should have spoken up rather forcibly. As a pilot this is a rather easy non-issue to deal with especially considering they weren't in IMC even just nighttime, which isn't zero visability and even IF they were IMC, they still had the advantage of those 2 working ADIs. The cockpit recorder is VERY damning.
The ONLY conclusion to draw from this IS what the report states which is poor CRM killed these pilots. I hate to say it but this crew if not during this accident, were they to come across another accident in a similar situation where only the junior officers had they had the correct information, they would have killed themselves just the same, a fact reflected by Air Korea's poor safety performance during those years.
@@brandonjustus9954 I think you are mixing up cause and effect.
@Savas Kurt probably a load of tinfoil hats. Did you get yours yet?
I remember that Delta helped to convert the Korean cockpit culture to a more 'joint participation cockpit culture'. This was a very serious problem with KAL. Subsequently, the accident rate noticeably decreased. A very hard lesson learned for the Koreans. Great video.
Until this very crash, Korean Air safety record was not good, pretty comparable to China Airlines at that time.
I heard (read?) the Korean Airlines had the flight crew communicate among themselves in English. Apparently the Korean language reinforces the authoritarian nature they want to avoid in the cockpit.
I just checked Google and apparently the new CEO of Korean Air changed the official language of the airline to English sometime prior to 2013. As you said, Korean Airline's safety record has improved a lot with this change and other CRM training.
the old asian culture issue. Only speak to superior when spoken to
@@magillanz this still prevails? How pathetic.
@@julosx u mean China Airlines? They are owned by two different sovereignty
As a physician on duty in an intensive care unit, I know well how essential it is to know how to listen to all the members of the team so that the shift flows and we can manage critical patients in the best way in order to help them in their recovery.
True mate , good comparison.
Well said. 'Triage' is a broader word than realized.
The animation at the end is really eerie.
When you watch a 30 minute video about an incident like that and you analyze all the details of what has happened, you tend to forget how quickly everything unfolded.
You think "how can that even happen?" and then you see it in real time.. tough to imagine being in that situation.
Yes I am a novice pilot. And the sequence of events in this flight are truly mind blowing. In my eyes, the captain had about 3 to 5 seconds to react to an instrument reading fault. But with the abundance of visual cues outside I think I know why they did not understand the bank angle immediately. Because the pilots are trained to trust and fly with their instruments and not visual or inertial cues. I am a novice pilot so for me everything is visual. And my plane is much more forgiving. Yet, these pilots were barely at fault. Take of is a very critical part of the flight. 600 or 900 ft above the ground does not give much time or room to maneuver.
That animation at the end around 35:01 still is chilling. Your explanation might have made it sound like it took a while for events to unfold but it all took place in nearly half a minute. The ATC wishing them good night to the impact just a while after would be a horrifying thought
I appreciate the below aspects of your video:
1. Your approach of speaking to the camera, which gives the watchers an experience as though you are directly talking to them, explaining to them, as opposed to hearing a voice in the background
2. You started with the history, leading up to the fatal events that unfolded. It felt easier to comprehend.
3. You avoided unnecessary over-dramatization that is normally a theme of such programs
4. Yet, you maintain the unbiased poignancy, giving insights on why certain individuals acted in certain ways. This creates a learning opportunity rather than cheap satisfaction you get by blaming it one one more more individuals.
I think there is a reason why this channel is called "Mentour Pilot". These videos are educational, not entertainment. And this makes it so much more interesting even for someone who is not a pilot.
Aircraft fly because of SCIENTIFIC FACTS ... not because of FEELINGS ... which is the basis for sensationalism and most current-day politics. If you want to stay alive and keep flying as a pilot you NEED the MINDSET OF FACTS AND LOGIC.
*Emotions are the opposite of logic and reasoning!*
@@Muck006 Not sure what you are so emotional about?
@@Muck006 Not the opposite but a separate and complementary sphere of mental activity. We engage in the scientific process of maximising safety only after and because we have emotionally decided that people are worth keeping alive. Science may be an objective and unemotional process but we engage in it for profoundly emotional reasons.
As a “civilian” that has no experience as, or intention to be, a pilot , I’m so appreciative that this resource is out there for the airline piloting profession. I just feel safer that this CRM principles are being promoted and emphasised in such a constructive manner. It’s incredible how quickly and how easily things can go wrong. 🙏 thanks!
As another civilian, I was slightly disturbed to see that the crew are reading repeaters of a single measuring device rather than having independent measuring devices.
Still, there would be a question of which to believe.
No, it's incredible how _seldom_ airline accidents with fatalities happen today. This also will explain some of the accidents that still happen. The safer somebody feels, the less he will often be prepared for dangers.
@@HansDunkelberg1 also I paused at 12:41 just to stare at Captain Park Duk-Kyu's record. over 13K flight hours... over a year and a half in air. man... now that's a career pilot.... Hmmm is he the kind of person to go "enh, dunno what's wrong, but it's probably fine"? Hmm can't say.
@@20chocsaday I had exactly the same thought
I too like this material. I've probably watched every episode of air crash investigation. Some episodes more than once. Plus I watch 74 gear plus I watch this channel. I've never flown in an airplane a day in my life but I'm confident that I know more about flying than the average person does lol. Hell whenever I see an accident that has happened recently, from the small amount of info I might have, I start to diagnose what probably happened Lol. And I have these channels to thank for that
Honestly this is the best kind of these videos. Facts are told by an expert and nothing is overly dramatised. Just straight to the point and beautiful graphics. Love it keep up the good work
He also includes the aftermath instead of just detailing how the accident happened.
Aside from the highly professional storytelling, these videos succeed because of their humanity. You don't need a cast of thespians to bring to life the drama and heartbreak behind these accidents. This grabbed me because it dealt with the real time challenges facing the crew.
I like the idea of getting the interpretations of an actual pilot over the stories of some writer filtered through a cast of actors. Different strokes, I guess. Thanks again!🐸
I totally agree! He makes everything clear and concise, sometime worthiness in other videos make fast forward...but never here!
This video brought back some memories!
I was in the cockpit jump seat on an arriving cargo airline flight. Due to a disabled aircraft blocking the main taxiway we had to wait for walking marshallers to help us use the alternate taxiway. While we waited I was listening to Korean asking to push but not allowed as they hadn’t yet filed a flight plan. We taxied very slow into the ramp and I believe we had about 10ft clearance between our wingtip and the Korean B747 wingtip. They departed after we had parked and by the time I’d got out of the terminal and into the car the news came over that Stansted was closed due to a crash.
Of course the TV news broke the story before they had the details "Stansted Airport has been closed due to a major cargo airplane crash. Full news at 9pm." My parents were in panic until they found that it was a departing aircraft not arriving. When I got home and got the details I realized that it was the flight I had been listening to on the headset only 10-15 minutes before they crashed.
@Bigga Nigga How? What a weird thing to say.
@Bigga Nigga I mean how do you know they're lying? I don't get it?
@Bigga Nigga r/nothingeverhappens plus "its been a year, why are you bothering now lol?"
HOW COMES ALL Flight crew don't 1) leave amandatory electronic note book
And 2) How come they all don't stay at one mandatory hotel to share their electronically accessible, previous flight report??!!l
As the mother of a pilot in training, your videos have given me greater confidence in the innate safety of his vocation. Glad he is well rounded, handles crises well amd is a rational thinker under duress. Your videos show how important this is. It also gives me a glimpse into the cockpit and black box data analysis us immensely interesting!
I speak for many of us who thank you for making the analysis of these accidents or anomalies available to the layperson as well as the professional aviators!
Safe journeys!
Oh no teresa how are you?
You hit a new high standard with each recent video.
@The New NKVD no u
Thank you! We are really trying to ramp up production value at the moment.
You can really help us by sharing the videos on social media. It really helps 🙏
agree; top notch production values
"we"?
@@Netbase2000 duhhh... All this takes more than 1 person to create
What I find hard to believe is with such an experienced Captain, when he kept putting left bank input and his bank indicator remained flat, why wouldn’t he have scanned the back up and the first officer’s indicator given the warning as well? Great video.
Because captain thought he was the supreme King and FO had his nuts taken away.
It blows my mind.
Riiiiiight, with an alarm going off, why wouldn't he check or at the very least ask his FO "What's your side saying"
Im surprised he could not feel the bank
@@caspkeeley Good point.
These are genuinely more interesting than even air crash investigation episodes. Clear concise information without bias!
The original ACI episode was as clear as winter ice though, for as much as I can remember.
Was about to say the same!
Bias in plane crash investigation videos? Exactly what would be the motive?
@@julosx yes true there's no doubt just comparing the quality of this to an actual TV show! Like this is top level TH-cam content we're getting
And no disgusting narrator voice as if it's some kind of haunted house trailer
I Salute you Sir. Not only do you break the accident into "bite-size" packets, you also generate a forward-looking plan to obviate a recurrence.
Whenever it comes time for you to mention that people died as a result of an accident, you always show respect with a bit of silence. I very much respect and appreciate that. Thank you.
As a young doctor your videos about CRM are so educational and insightful. I'm lucky that most teams I've worked with have created a high level of psychological safety for me to speak up about my concerns, so I'm gently corrected but not ridiculed when I'm wrong. That was not the case even 20 years ago. I'm glad both flying and medicine have improved so much in this respect :)
On behalf of your patients, so am I!
What perplexes me is that they fear authority more than death lmao. Seriously i was the FO i dont care how much experience the capt has, if he is a moron at that moment im overriding him and if he fights ill knock his ass out. If I lose my job so be it because I would still have my life.
CRM culture has an effect with patient voices, too. My primary care listens to my concerns and takes my input seriously. She's fully aware that she doesn't know everything. She knows that some patients are competent enough with computers, biology, and chemistry to do some of the basic leg work ahead of time. To me, it feels as though she treats my appointments as collaborative efforts. Of course, there's some things I can't know, and I'm willing to admit it, but I think that's part of what makes the collaborative style of treatment work so well.
As a potential patient and airplane passenger, I am doubly thankful. Perhaps that is reason enough to pay a little extra to fly with the high cost airlines?
Hi Jayashri. As a senior doctor in the British NHS, I was involved until I retired in improving the NHS safety culture. I do NOT believe that importing lessons from the aviation industry has been particularly helpful in British hospital healthcare. Most of the many incidents I was involved with did indeed show the 'Swiss cheese' effect but a common theme was the very poor support infrastructure - supply, administrative, repair, technical... things like poor IT, badly designed processes for alerting hi-risk test results, dreadful levels of understaffing and very poor support staff training. It was like an airline that made no effort to monitor and improve performance of mechanics, technical support - or an airport that didn't train the refuellers or the police & security people, the guys who repair the runways and so and exclusively focussed on pilot training and CRM.
Radically improving quality in the support infrastructure is VERY expensive - too expensive for the British government's Department of Health who found it cheaper to continue a 'blame culture' - to believe that patient safety was improved not by investment but by threats to and intimidation of the staff.
It speaks volumes that Dr James Reason (mentioned in the video) was very popular for a while in the NHS until the COSTS of implementing his policies became clear. Dr Reason is no longer popular - or even discussed.
You should go over how aircraft fire fighting works, there are some very good videos of incidents but no real explanation of what they are doing and why.
That can be done. As soon as this Covid stuff is over
Asiana 214 comes to mind. MP could teach us lot with the videos from that.
@@MentourPilot Perhaps you can visit a local airfield firefighter unit, to know how they do?
Fantastic video! As an ex-flight attendant with an East Asian carrier, I really appreciate the explanation on the dynamics at play in terms of hierarchy between crew members and employees, which are a recurrent problem due to culture. Also and more generally, I really love learning more about the flying and that this channel makes it accessible to all.
I'm an ex-F/A myself and will never tire of aviation's complexity, from trade to engineering and culture.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things can not be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one’s lifetime" Marl Twain Innocents Abroad.
why you become ex Flight attendant
@@ericatnyyk that being a flight attendant isn't the best job yk?
I too appreciate the direct eye contact, and the feeling that we're sitting in my living room while you tell me this story.
As a guy who frequently has to troubleshoot systems and failures caused by the actions (or inactions) of others, I also really, really appreciate the careful phrasing - rather than "the first officer did not do the thing" - which requires a certain amount of speculation - you say "there is no indication that the first officer did the thing", which is verifiable statement of fact. (Maybe he pushed this switch or pulled that lever, but it chose that exact moment to fail spectacularly, and so recorded nothing on the data recorder, and was coincidentally moved back (or destroyed) in the ensuing crash. What we know for sure is "there is no indication".) When you do choose to speculate, you're always careful to say you're speculating, but provide a reasonable basis to justify it. (The FO on this flight did not say anything in the last few seconds; this is verifiable, but the reason requires speculation, and "just got chewed out by a far senior captain" is far more likely than "picked that evening to start sniffing glue". You're speculating, but with a reasonable basis.)
Like the Mona Lisa - his eyes follow me constantly
@@pipimontana Even when we're not watching his videos, he's still watching US. 😳
Thank you very much for "Mentour Pilor" TH-cam channel! :)
As a someone with Korean background (although I have been living in the United States for the most part of my life), I was particularly attracted to the portion of this video lecture covering the "power gradient". One of the major issues that South Koreans must confront in our time: power gradient. Traditionally, the Koreans have been very top-down--i.e., very hierarchical, high power gradient. If you are somewhat familiar with the Korean culture, you might have noticed some of the manifestation of the Koreans' power gradient--e.g., rather steep male-female inequality (although not as extreme as in South Asia and the Middle East) and also rather steep boss-to-subordinate inequality, relative to Europe and North America.
Meanwhile, why am I fascinated by airline disasters?
1. Just to be able to operate an aircraft, as well as to make it to accomplish whatever task it and its crews are intended, they requires both human-and-technology and human-and-human interactions. I interpret this set of requirements as a microcosm of the very reality all of us are facing.
2. Cascading failures: I have noticed that, whether it be an airline or something even more catastrophic, if it experiences cascading failures, then: "We're going down"; "I know"; ...(End of flight voice recording. Period.) Airline disasters seem to provide the most vivid and immediate real-life examples of cascading failures.
The visual quality of your videos is getting higher and higher with every upload man. Great job, I really enjoy these videos even more than the older ones. And I love how you always keep improving.
I will keep working! Thanks for your nice feedback
@@MentourPilot thanks for all the great content. You got me interested in aviation and I've learned a lot from your videos.
@@MentourPilot keep up the great work captain!! 😉 your work is amazing and it’s really engaging with all the cool sound effects and animations is just beyond amazing
Agreed! These are done really well!
Nice, but I do miss his dogs. Did they have a haircut that night? Or did their INU1 have a malfunction?!
It reminds me of Tenerife with Van Zanten's annoyance at diversion and delay somehow. A highly experienced captain intimidates everyone else even when they know they are going to die they won't speak up. CRM is there for a purpose but interpersonal relationships between crewmembers can make this very, very difficult.
one would almost think that such a captain, knowing that this is the case, would explicitly speak to his crew saying that if he does something stupid, take every effort to alert him up to and including shouting in his face.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Unfortunately the culture in flight crew back then in Korea (and the Far East) is that deference, even when facing certain death, means that the junior crew won't speak up. As a British pilot, it sounds preposterous to go to certain death passively but culture plays a very important role even now after these crashes. It's not restricted to just the Far East, in the case of Tenerife the KLM captain Van Zanten was such a twat that he bullied his crew into staying silent even when they weren't sure if they had T/O clearance. Fortunately CRM has come a long way and junior crew aren't afraid to speak up and report CRM breaches as a result of these crashes. The safety systems and polices in place today mean that such aggressive crew will be retrained and that junior crew will no longer be passive. At least in theory. The Pakistan AirBlue A321 crash was pretty much a repeat of Koreanair where a junior pilot was bullied and silenced by an egotistical wanker of a captain. Me personally, I would ignore culture and take control from the captain who was going to kill us all but would many F/Os have the guts to do that? It's a conundrum that even in the new millennium shows that CRM has a long way to go.
@@daveyr5462 agreed!
@@daveyr5462 Certainly it's insane.
What a shame the first officer knew what was going to happen. I’m a senior manager in IT , but I’ll always engage my junior guys in big decisions. Reason? They’re smart and sharp.
The quality of this videos just keeps increasing
Thank you! That’s our goal
@@MentourPilot your videos are amazing!!!!
I totally agree, I have been following this channel for years now, and the content has always been very high quality, but somehow Mentour Pilot manages to make it even more interesting as the years go by. If I could afford it, I would pay him for his excellent work, but I am poor ("en fattigrøv" som vi siger både på dansk og svenskt) so I just ride along for free. Thankyou, Petter, keep it coming!!!!
@@vonduus mentor pilot is cool 😎
@@MentourPilot fff4d4d4rdafa3eeè3e34 r r4e3ereeeee r Rd re4 re e3r true to be the best regards t6
The yf nut q thug gt5
I’ve got friends and family in the village of Great Hallingbury. It crashed in the field behind my friends house - literally a hundred metres away - they were so scared. Their power was knocked out for weeks. Great Hallingbury is a lovely little country village - a different world from Stansted, even though they are only about 0.5 DME from the 04 threshold (05 in those days).
I was on the Stansted airport train coming home from London after work. We were stuck on the train midway due to a “major incident”.
I’ve walked with my brother and our dogs around the crash site on many occasions. You couldn’t even tell anything unusual happened.
RIP.
Thank god that this was a cargo flight, and not passenger service, nor impacted a populated area. Tragic as it is, it could have been SO much worse. Thank you for the valuable lesson, and RIP to the KAL crew.
I love the 747 but over this models life there have been 63 hull loss incidents over their 30 life of 1570 total units, that's about one in 25. Say you were FO and then captain on one for 30 years, and typically fly half or a third of those hops. The you have a 1 in 50 to 1 in 75 chance of being one of those unfortunate crews...no so great odds for crewman....
@@wokewokerman5280 This is super misleading. There have been 63 hull losses per plane made? Those two data points have nothing to do with each other. Try hull loss incidents per flights flown. They are extremely safe.
To further illustrate my point, lets say Boeing sees your stat then say "Make 1570 more 747s!" Your stat has changed, but the safety of the air plane has not.
@@wokewokerman5280 They are safe. 747s are always in the air, last year 30+ 747s had more than 100k hours or eleven years of airtime. If you factor out maintenance and pilot errors accidents per airtime are very low.
@@wokewokerman5280 I hope you don't gamble lol
@@bigd5899 ...you miss the entire point and the facts, I said a crew that is on the plane for a long career...geesh
I worked in the cargo area about 3 years after the incident, apparently the flight engineer wanted to wait and fix the fault with a brand new part (which meant a delay) but the captain refused, and as the video suggests, no one questions the captains decision and proceeded to normal leaving procedures.
I definitely remember you mentioning about this accident in an Angry Mentour episode about a 737 pilot berating the first officer in an ATC recording and how breaking the CRM in such kind of behavior can lead to an accident like this.
Yes I did! Good stuff that you remembered
Well recalled! A true fan and such an eagle eye! Nice one!
I was coming home on my motorcycle up the M11 to the Stanstead junction, when I got there, all was in darkness and the eye witnesses in the traffic queue were really shaken 'biggest explosion I've ever seen' and the like. Filtering my way onto the A120 and fire trucks were desperately trying to find the correct tiny country lanes to get to the scene. A miracle no-one on the ground was killed, could have been so much worse.
I live in E Anglia and that night I happened to be watching the news as soon as it broke. I remember my first thoughts were "I hope it didn't land on any houses", swiftly followed by "I hope it didn't land on the M11 or 25" (it wasn't initially clear exactly where it had come down and you can get to the 25 in minutes flying directly). It's a tragedy that the 4 died, it was a bloody miracle that it wasn't more.
Did you stop your ride to look at the mushroom not to be distracted while riding ?
I too was on the M11, in a wagon, and saw the fireball. I rang my mate to check the news (he listened to a different radio station) to try and confirm what I suspected.
To this day (and I hope it stays so) it is the nearest I have ever been to an air accident.
@@yamaha6501982 Never saw the crash, I was several miles south when it happened, just caught up to the stationary traffic at the Stansted junction..
At the time I worked for the company that had just loaded it. I was standing on the loading dock of the warehouse loading the freight that had been off loaded onto lorries. I didn't see the impact as I was focused on loading the lorries, when the ground shook and the machine that stores the pallets shut down and the emergency brakes came on. When I looked around the lorry I never saw the fireball, I saw a huge fountain of sparks or embers. Initially myself and the drivers assumed that the petrol garage in the services just past the end of the runway had exploded. Soon word came back as to what had happened. My colleague who was driving the pallet storeing machine left work and went home to see if he still had a wife and house. The plane crashed only a few hundred yards from his house and his wife was supposed to be home, but had been held up in traffic so got home just after the crash. Some items had fallen off shelves, but his wife and house survived. Thankfully it crashed into the woodland behind his house. Another colleague was on his way to start his shift and said that the plane had flown low over his car "and didn't look right".
This accident shows the importance of performing root-cause analysis when fixing defects in any field. The fact that the attitude indicator worked correctly when switching to the alternate INU should have alerted the engineer that the problem is not with the indicator. He should have followed the issue to the INU and fixed it.
It indicated that the problem was not with the indicator itself, yes, but that's not the same as the INU being faulty. Do the two INUs have seperate cable inputs connecting them to the indicator, or do the INU cables join up outside of it? Because if they are separate and the apparently faulty connection was on the INU 1 input, then it was a valid potential root cause.
The real failure here was not properly testing the system after the repair. The observed faulty behaviour was a failure to register a roll; there *was* no indicated error when the aircraft was on the ground prior to the fix.
As a junior AME, mainly a refueler, in the early 80s in Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada. I was so impressed by how the flight crew of the 737’s treated me with respect and dignity when I brought the fuel report to the pilot. I in coveralls and they looking so professional. All smiles and friendly, yet so very thorough.
Commercial aviation depends on a team. No one person can do everything, and so it is right that every member of the team respects what the other members bring to it.
Ego and status had no place in the cockpit. That can also be said of many other professions.
Nine months late, but I can attest to that too. I’m an aircraft cleaner and ramper (ground crew) and in the year and a half I’ve worked, I’ve never been treated badly by the pilots and flight attendants. They’ve always been very respectful of me and even freely helped me out a few times and vice versa. Ahh the stories I could tell!
I’ll settle for just one. We’d just finished cleaning a Dreamliner and we had all gotten into our cleaning van and we’re waiting for our supervisor to finish doing the water truck duties so he can drive us to the next aircraft. It’s the middle of summer so we have the windows down. And then we look out the window and see the captain descending down the steps. We’re curious but nothing else… until this senior captain reaches the bottom of the steps and it becomes apparent that we’re his intended target.
Near panic breaks out amongst us cleaners because the pilots seldom talk to us. If we miss a spot or don’t do a section of aircraft to satisfaction it’s always the flight attendants who correct us or call us back. Logically then, if the captain is coming for us, someone has ROYALLY screwed up. 🤣 I swear, a couple of my colleagues were probably thinking about bailing out the other side. And then the captain reaches us. There’s a silence as he looks at us. Our eyes meet.
So, almost casually I asked “Uhh.. hello captain. What can we do for you?” I’m mentally bracing myself because now I’ve just gone and unofficially nominated myself as group speaker. But instead of the tongue lashing I’m expecting, this captain takes on a very polite, respectful and entreating tone and explains that the last crew had left the cockpit in a bit of a mess and would we kindly clean it?
I’m astonished, and slightly hesitant because none of us (yet) had the proper cockpit cleaning training. It’s a forbidden zone. It must have been blatant that he’d just blindsided me because he gave me the seconds I needed to process and answer. Finally I agreed to do it on the condition that either he or his FO supervised me-so I didn’t accidentally press something or break the multi million pound aircraft. He was very happy to accept my terms, so I hopped out of the van, grabbed my supplies and equipment and followed him back aboard.
And yes, it was a mess which included spilled drink on the carpet which took a while to clean. He was the one supervising me while the FO did the walk around-then they kind of milled in the doorway until I was done. He even walked me back out to the van, expressing his gratitude and getting my employee details to commend me. And to explain to my supervisor since he’d returned to pick us up by now.
Fun times.
Captains anger has clouded his judgement.
The engineer knew that there was no recovery at that moment that's why he said it in a small voice *bank*.
He was angry just like the dutch 747 captain in Tenerife
I have had a moment of clarity before Bad Things happen; the quiet voice makes sense to me. Once I lost the front tire of my bicycle - it rolled off the rim - in a 35 mph downhill turn. I seemed to hang in the air for a moment. At first I thought, uh-oh. Just that... a quiet thought. Then I realized how good I felt in that instant, nothing hurt although it would less than a second later. Such is fate.
I know there were many factors, but when I heard the flight engineer saying Bank! Bank! I thought of flight envelope protection, and that the engineer is now replaced with a computer.
@@Boss_Tanaka Captain Van Zanten wasn't so much angry as he was in a hurry. He was suffering from impatience.
@@Eric_Hutton.1980 yes you re right he was impatient but according to the cvr that made him moody
I just cannot understand why the engineer suppressed his self-preservation instinct by letting things happen that way. He seemed to be the only one who realized whats going on. Screw authority when it is a question of life an death! But I am a german, not a korean. Different cultures. Very different indeed.
Thanks for the great video.
He didn't have enough time, everything happened within seconds. Besides he probably didn't fully understand what was exactly happening.
😐Yep
In my experience, Germans also had (and in many areas, still have) that culture of unquestionable authority.
Must we have to force everyone who refuse to let authority be challenged into a blind cargo plane?
Korean culture is very different. It's heavily influenced by neo-Confucianism and is very autocratic where people are defential to authority even in instances where they shouldn't be. I lived there for 4 years and repeatedly experienced scenarios where a Korean couldn't or wouldn't challenge a person in power. As the story progressed I predicted the power dynamic at play that likely played into this incident. I'm not at all surprised.
He didn't, but by that point it was already too late even when he first warns about bank.
CRM seems to be a real issue with Korean Airlines over the years there have been a number of such failures and when you stop and think about it, it sheds another light on the whole Nut rage incident that the airline had in 2014
Yep, that’s a good point
Another excellent presentation.
QUESTION: whenever I have been a passenger on an aircraft I have always been able to physically feel when it was banking. Furthermore just looking out of the window even at night gives you a different horizon perspective. I don't understood how an experienced captain could not tell that the aeroplane was indeed banking, and continued to put in more bank. Am I missing something?
You can't actually tell your banking angle if you have a turn at the same time, as when it's properly executed the resulting G force vector (natural gravity + centripetal force from the turn) will be straight down your middle. What you do feel is the initiation as a slight acceleration in the roll plane. But with turbulence, like they had, this can easily be masked. You must have visual queues, or functioning instruments, to know what's going on.
Same thoughts!! It's hard to understand how, with just 1 faulty instrument out of 3 and 3 pilots in the cockpit, this accident has happened!!! As a passenger i perceive very well any moderate roll of the airplane!
@@spaghetti_groove you have to remember that our perception, as passengers, of what the plane is doing comes from a position in the rear of the plane looking out the side windows only, whereas the pilots are up near the nose looking primarily towards the front.
As passengers, our role is passive, pilots on the other hand are multitasking, especially during takeoff and landing.
I do not have extensive flight experience, but I know my perception of what’s happening when I’m a passenger in a more forward seat is different from when I’m a passenger more towards the rear. Much like when we drove our van from the Midwest to the East Coast with our four children to visit my sister and her family, and my husband and I took turns rotating to the back seat so that the children could rotate seat partners and the older two had chances to ride up front and observe as they were approaching driving age. My perception of my husband’s driving was was different while riding in the back row compared to riding in the front passenger seat.
Unlike what the simulation shows, the plane was in cloud so there was no visual reference.
Yes, you are missing the fact that they were in cloud. You can only feel the bank, if you are looking out into clear sky and then your brain tells you, you can feel the bank.
As a passenger, I just want to profess my gratitude for these videos. I love learning the intricacies of this profession and the problem solving that goes on behind the scenes that we never see. These crashes and incident videos actually make me feel safer flying on an aircraft aswell due to some of these circumstances along all the corrective actions that have been taken. Thank you for your time doing these videos, they are appreciated.
Captain, this really is one of the better accident explanations I’ve seen and heard. Great walk-through and animations for the novice like me to comprehend! 👌🏻
As a passenger I've been in a plane that banked so hard before landing and then corrected itself that I could swear the right wing was a foot and a half from a wingstrike, and then I've seen a private jet fly within 100-200 feet of our plane as they pass right behind us. Those are the two near accidents I've seen first hand. Fortunately they never amounted to anything.
This series of "explaining accidents" has become my favorite content on yt. Very well done, sir!
I think there are a lot of us who want to know what is going on below the surface.
Every "accident" can be summarised with cost cutting
You've mentioned this so often, the importance of cooperation, respect and open communication. You've repeatedly given credit to cabin crew for their handling of emergencies; and I think this applies to many situations in life, if people work together, if people can speak up and feel valued, results will be better.
You're teaching valuable life lessons, thank you.
So interesting to hear this one. I lived about 4 miles away from Stansted Airport all of my childhood up untill I was 29. My family were at home that day and heard the massive crash sound even about 8 miles away, it was a huge boom that shook the whole house.
It's so sad to see what actually happened 🙁 at least the pilots wouldn't have felt a thing, that's one small glimmer from such a sad story.
Considering most Aircraft Investigation series have been scrubbed of the internet, these have become my new favorite digestible series. I'd love to hear about TWA 800 and your theories of a potential missile-strike.
I did not know that aircraft investigation series had been scrubbed or cancelled out. I wonder why that would be? Any idea?
Can you expand on this?
@@BjorgenEatinger Presumably the copies on the internet were unauthorized, and the copyright owner has been issuing take-down requests. It's a popular series, so their income would be impacted by having it freely available.
Not potential missile , 100 % missile strike . Witnessed by 100’s of people
The channel called ‘ Wonder ‘ have uploaded them on TH-cam. I access them with my VPN. As they aren’t available in the UK for some reason. Hope this helps. Although I think this channel does better explanation videos than ACI.
As technician fixing relatively complicated machines i have this so often...: Y ou search for ages for the reason for a problem. And then you find it! Everything fits! it makes perfect logical sense that THAT issue would have cause THAT problem! Definitely it!!! And maybe you know it has before! So happily you fix the issue. And you start the machine.... and you have the same problem.
It's the exception not the rule, ususally you're right, especially with experience. But it DOES happen to everybody and i stopped many years ago to be fooled or to assume anything. And waste time and maybe don't call help, checking other things, while i'm busy because i'm so fixed on one trail.
But even so, if i'm wrong, we lose a bit of productivity, nothing more. Which is the end of the world for some office person but nobody else is hurt.
I also leave a note for the next shift, that it happened. So if it's only temporarily fixed, they know i did THIS already and don't waste time trying the same. And maybe test the machine before it's used....
I’m an independent software engineer; and rather a while ago I installed a little script into one of my projects that increments a counter every time I build & run the program (for those not versed in the details of software development, the basic cycle that you go through is edit, build, run, crash, take a guess from the crash report the machine spits out at you, and go back to the editing step).
Last I looked, I’m well over ten thousand on that counter... and a lot of those are from precisely what you describe: I thought the previous edit should have fixed the issue (which is why I hit the build-and-run button in the first place)... but, nope, it didn’t. 😐
It happens very similarly in the medical field, as well. You are certain you know what the problem is and get fixated on solving it your way, even when what you are doing clearly isn't working. It's crucial to stop to re-evaluate from time to time and call for help early, before the situations deteriorates too far.
I had to change a main engine control 4 times on the same jet engine in a row, with slightly different problems related to the MEC each time.
Each time, we troubleshot thoroughly only to find it should be the MEC that's the issue again. We started questioning ourselves, questioning our troubleshooting, and questioning our abilities. Our bosses started doing the same. Felt horrible, and we hated doing the same big job over and over again.
The only thing we could come up with was that we kept getting bad MECs out of supply. It was not unheard of, we'd had to do several MEC changes multiple times in the past for that reason. But our 5th MEC? Unheard of.
Finally, to avoid turning the plane into a hanger queen for being grounded so long while we troubleshot, and after deep unusual troubleshooting with engineer recommendations, they finally decided to just pull the trigger on a whole engine change. By then, we'd spent way more effort on MEC changes than a single engine change wouldve taken.
The engine was impounded for investigation took a year, with every engineer in CFM and Boeing curious about the results. Nobody believed us that it could be 5 bad MECs in a row.
After a year of investigation... It was determined to be 5 bad MECs in a row (or at least most of them were bad. The ones we turned in got investigated too. Pretty sure the MEC depot finally got fucked for it). Furthermore, and even worse, they found a piece of safety wire deep in the engine that was left behind during a depot rebuild had magnetized the wheel for the N1 speed sensor. Even if we'd had a good MEC, the engine would have always had power/throttle problems till it could be torn down. We felt vindicated. There was no way to test for this issue on a flightline, let alone fix it. It always would have needed an engine change.
Can completely relate to this. I work in maintenance in a completely different field (where thankfully no lives are at stake, only time and money). A lot of the time I'm out in the "field" and have to deal with problems while only having a very limited set of spare parts with me. Once I'm past the "it's most likely this part so let's just swap if first and see" stage, diagnosing stuff can be a pain. For most workaround or diagnosing steps, I have to account for and expect that the "new" part I'm trying might also be defective because I'm trying parts and cables from in-production equipment and not actually new parts.
@@vasilivh Absolutely. A vet was faced with a lame horse I knew. They x-rayed the lame leg going down from the top until they found a hairline crack in a bone, then stopped and gave directions for support, rest, etc to treat that crack. When the horse didn't improve as expected, the owner called in another vet, who came out and they x-rayed the leg beyond the crack the first vet had found, right down to the hoof. I bet you can see where this is going already.... yep, there was another, worse crack. Thankfully the second (rather more competent) vet's treatment did the trick and the horse recovered.
Awesome accident breakdown. Hope these precise, honest analyses bring public awareness to new generations.
You're a real treasure, Mentour!
Thank you for your kind words. Glad you find them interesting!
I would never have imagined that a TH-cam creator could be so nice, genuine and easy to listen to - while telling us about four people dying in a fireball.
Seriously, your channel is excellent and I really enjoy your presentation style. Thanks.
did you even watch the video? Fym hundreds, it was 4
@@RENO_K I never was any good at math. Thanks for pointing out my error (It's now fixed.)
Your content is always absolutely faultless, tremendously educational, and incredibly interesting. You are a truly natural communicator and teacher.
Your work is excellent, not made overly dramatic, just factual and very informative
So well researched and beautifully presented. You know what I love the most? The in-game in-cockpit visuals. And overall visuals. I don't know how long your videos take to make but they are of superb quality, really amazing work!
I was a ground engineer for many years. It is a standard procedure to replace the ADI if the failure report just contain the information that the ADI doesn't work. On ground all one can do is replacing the ADI and perform the self test. So I see no misbehaviour of the technician replacing the ADI.
My dad, far over 30.000 flight hours on all kind of planes (from Bf 109 to DC8) would turn in his grave seeing what the crew did. A captain unable to do a proper instrument flight, not responding to warning sounds and lights and a first officer so intimidated that he prefers to die instead of taking action. Horrible! Thank god that this crew did only fly cargo!
Brilliant video, thanks for sharing. Regards from Austria, Steve
I work at Stansted and dealt with the cargo paperwork for this flight. I was just leaving the office to go home when the crash happened and I can certainly attest to the explosion forming a mushroom cloud. 300ft high! The impact was so heavy it shook the whole airport including the terminal building where police officers were concerned a bomb had detonated
. One aspect not covered was the additional problem of poor visibility. Aswell as being dark, there would've been no visual light references on the ground as the cloudbase was around 900ft in light rain. By the time the aircraft had accelerated at speed down from around its max achieved altitude of 2700ft and broken cloud its fate was already decided.
All quite shocking on my doorstep!
Excellent depiction of the accident. Simulation at the end really helped to understand how fast the situation developed and how small amount of time there is for a reaction. It really helps to understand what is behind the training and how fast death/life decisions have to be made.
"THIS IS HOW I ROLL" - not the best T-shirt for this movie...
Three quarters through the video I was thinking "I dearly hope he paid attention to what shirt he picked".
Practically every crash involves too much banking, but in this case it was perhaps a bit too tacky.
Yeah too much banking not enough lunching. Shouldn't get bogged down by the money.
@@57thorns completely incorrect but I guess you felt smart
@@Steve-ph7qn Same to you. Except, perhaps, you got your satisfaction from being a stupid smartass while I was just making a bad joke.
I really like this new format. Your expert analysis on these tragic accidents is very enlightening
Happy to hear that!
@@MentourPilot you seem like a cool guy let's be freind's you seem awesome
I'm really enjoying this new series. Very well done. The Chapter format works exceptionally well, and the detailed "inside baseball" perspective as an ATP pilot is wonderfully informative.
i never thought i'd be interested in aviation this much so big compliments on sucking me into binging your professional and educational reports I never realized how damn important a good team spirit is among the pilots and crew in a critical moment like this, as a former firefighter i can see many similarities with that job but almost never this extreme in such a short timeframe.
I had a flying lesson (2 seater) for my 60th, which was fantastic! The pilot told me to close my eyes as he took over and asked what I could feel, nothing I said, open your eyes, we were flying at 90° and I felt nothing! It helps me understand more watching your fantastic videos and how the airline industry acts on failures. Pity about other industries...... Also, full simulation print at bottom of screen hard to read. Thank you for sharing your precious knowledge!
I was always taught the chain and breaking the chain of events. The Swiss cheese model took me some time to get used to but it really makes sense. Thank you for everything you do Mr. mentor pilot
United 232 was and is an excellent example of CRM at its finest, unlike what you had here. No disrespect for the deceased crew. May they rest in peace.
“I don’t drink, but I’ll damn sure have (a beer) with you when this is over” -Captain Al Haynes. RIP
..Let's remember, poor CRM did not cause this accident. it might have helped to save them, but was not the cause.
Having instruments fail with zero visibility is no walk in the park. It's literally a death sentence that you may or may not recover from.
I see a lot of parallels with the incident of Alitalia AZ404 that happened here in Zurich about 30 years ago. One faulty instrument (glide slope) on the PIC side and poor CRM lead to the aircraft to undershoot the ILS path and crash into a mountain. On that instance the co-pilot even initiated a go-around that was interrupted by the pilot...
Again, this is where the company culture has to step up - the captain needs to know that they are going to have a difficult conversation with their boss if they don't do around when the FO calls for it (assuming that there is no justifiable reason that a landing must be made from that approach).
I cannot express how much I love the way you break these down. Thank you for including all the information necessary to understand what actually happened in these events.
The Aircraft Accident Investigation series you do is absolutely addicting to watch. Explanations, opinions, facts. I appreciate every bit of the way you format these stories.
So Blinkist provides a 15-minute summary of a book titled "The things you can see only when you slow down". I love the irony!
Yeah I caught that too. ^_^
Ha, hah, the first thing I noticed as well 🤪
MIndfulness in a hurry.
The sponsor is blinkist, a service that concentrates a book of 200 pages to about 10 minutes, and the book you recommend is called "The things you can only see when you slow down"? Come on, you are trolling your sponsor!
i thought the same xD
lol
"Maybe you can listen to it as you go to work".
It's about six metres from my bed to my desk :-)
SPEED LOW! SPEED LOW!
TERRAIN! TERRAIN!
@@TheNasaDude Terrain? OK, as long as we are trolling with tongue in cheek, I'm off to one of those railroad channels.
These videos are excellent. Much better than any of the discovery / nat geo documentaries. Thanks, please keep them coming 👍
So in depth and understandable. What interest me in these videos is not the tragic or any morbid curiosity, it’s the step by step detective breakdown of events
Your channel is fantastic. Perfect combination of entertainment and information.
Well if there was ever a perfect recipe for an accident this one must be it. Improper maintenance procedure, improper logging and log trace procedures and a FO & flight engineer who quite clearly felt they could not question what the captain was doing even though both must have realised the bank was getting out of control. Another excellent production Captain Petter, you are now my favourite accident investigation explainer. There is one I'd love you to look into for me, but I will have to look up dates, airline, etc. Have a good weekend, stay safe
but if the first officer and engineer realised the plane was banking so severely why not the captain ? perhaps he was suicidal?
...it kind of amuses me that simulating airline incidents in MS Flight Simulator was my day job about 20 years ago.
The production value of these accident review videos is excellent. The graphics aren’t just eye candy, they make the material more engaging and provide a solid “2nd dimension” if you will, to go along with your narration. I also very much appreciate hearing your perspective as a pilot and CRM advocate on these events. Human factors and human interface design are deeply fascinating subject areas, still too often treated in aircraft design as one-to-one replaceable with tech/automation, without fully assessing there are still humans interacting with these systems. Maybe time for us to start thinking about CRM as not just between human pilots, but designing a/c, training pilots, and treating the automation as if it were a third decision-making crew member on the flight deck.
Maybe I'm missing something about this accident. How can the captain, an experienced pilot, ignore his instruments and fly his plane in to the ground? As soon as he noticed his ADI was not indicating the bank he was inputting into the controls why would he not immediately check one of the other ADI and see the plane was in fact in a bank? Would seem that if your instruments don't indicate what you expect first step would be check your backup instruments.
Also, even though this flight was at night why couldn't the captain see out the window they were in fact in a bank? Visibility was good, right? The lights of the city should have been visible.
I was thinking the same thing. How you could do a 90 degree bank and not notice is beyond me. It'd be like if I was in my car and the speedometer got stuck at 30 mph. I doubt that I'd red line at 120 and not think it was broke.
Recently got my CPL. At night when you are climbing out you can't really see the outside because of the pitch. All the lights you see during take off disappears. He should have been able to see it during the bank though but I don't know if he was flying towards or away from the city. Probably just got fixated too much on his instruments because of the warning noise. This is straight after take off so a lot of things could be going through his head at this point. But I do agree on why he didn't check his back up instruments because that's why they are there.
London Stansted airport is in a rural location well away from the London conurbation. Most of what he could see of the ground was probably dark. It's not like Heathrow or City - Stansted is surrounded by fields, small towns and villages.
@@michaelkobylko2969 Yeah, but if you have a lot of experience with a vehicle, don't you get a feeling for it ? Professional drivers, as I was, rely on their "popometer". That is, their body becomes one with the vehicle. They know exactly whether the engine is fine or not, because they can feel the vibrations in their bum. They know instinctively how to turn, accelerate or break, they do not need to look at their speedometer to know if they are too fast. If the car "banks" they know it immediately.
You presumably have a team working on these vids - as well as your excellent presentation, the graphics are really clear, the editing very smooth (with the charming exception of your magic dog appearing and disappearing!). I'm fascinated by these stories - greatly admiring air crews' skills and courage, and horrified by the human losses. Thank you.
I'm loving these new style of videos. They're so professionally done
The simulation at the end was very interesting...in fact I noticed that from the captain's point of view, it's very easy to get so focused on the faulty instrument without even looking at other sources of information. This guy was so sure he knew what he was doing that he didn't listen to anyone else and was totally zoned in on what he was doing.
It is evident about the effort put into this video
Thank you sir and keep up the good work!
We are trying! Glad you think it shows.
I love how you don't interview the widow and add all that emotional stuff. You keep it respectful but mostly informational.
That’s what I’m trying to do
I agree 100%. I hate those documentaries that dwell in a deeply unsavoury way on the personal aspects, from which we can learn nothing to stop accidents and save lives in the future, and which in common decency should be left in privacy for those involved. It's either prurience or deflection from the fact that too many documentary makers are too lazy to get down into unearthing, understanding, and explaining the detailed facts.
*In Korean Culture the older person is ALWAYS right. Working with many Koreans I can totally see this attitude becoming a problem. I worked for this one guy who had no idea what he was doing it was his first time, but rather than listen would constantly make mistakes until I got fed up and started saying "Should have listened told you so, I was right wasn't I?" To the point where I just couldnt work for him. Also another guy older then me with no experience I was excellent at what I was doing and had been for years would go ask the other guy because he was older, like it damaged his pride to listen to someone half his age* Honor and pride : the stories of them stabbing themselves with knives because of honor thats a real thing if not with a knife but with their wallet. Ridiculous customs.
Hi Mentour. Nobody does these videos as well as you. Thank you so much for this and all your other absolutely fantastic content.
Great effort. The unemotional and down-to-earth style makes these videos more enjoyable (as far as it goes when deaths are involved) than the overdramatized aircraft crash investigation reports on TV 👍🏻
“If we don’t work together, we will definitely DIE together”.
As a seasoned passenger, but not aviator, I follow many of the aircraft accident TouTube channels, primarily because of the extensive investigation and analysis of causes of such accidents. Your channel is far and above all others because of your experience and analysis of causation and the investigations themselves. Your close attention to human factors, including but not limited CRM issues,
I just cant believe how amazing you really are at these videos. To me, no one explains these accidents with as much heart and humanity as you do. I have no doubt you are an amazing pilot as well as check Airman and instructor. As a 25 year veteran FA , I wish I had the oppty to fly with you. Thank you so much!
I have just visited the crash site around two weeks back. I work for korean air cargo at heathrow and some of my colleagues were actually involved in helping the investigators out back in 1999 including voice recorder translations. Some debris can still be found in the surrounding swamps. A very gloomy experience. Thanks for putting in this much effort to cover this accident.
Ive seen most of this content on numerous documentaries but I still learn new and very relevant information every time.Great content!
Thank you!
The new intro gave me 'Seconds from Disaster' vibes :P (Anyone remember that show from the history channel?) Awesome job on these videos!
Yep. Only saw the first 3 seasons as didn’t realise they did another 2-3 a few years later
I could tell by your tone in the video that this meant something to you, not only because you are always very passionate about CRM... Thanks for sharing, this was actually a pretty dramatic episode!
My biggest impression is how quickly it all happened when watching the simulation at the end. They really only had seconds to react (or not) to events as they unfolded.
Terrible CRM is why I stopped flying KAL, early '90's. Their trail of crashes in those days told the story well enough and I didn't want to be on the next one.
Excellent video(s), thank you.
Thank you for the simulation at the end. When you describe all the details it seems so obvious and like there is so much time while the simulation really drives home how quickly you need to remedy such a situation before it's too late and how much other stuff there is going on. Very sad.
OUSTANDING production like usual. Your videos just keep getting better and better, thanks for uploading!
I love this channel. Not a pilot and not employed in the aviation industry but find it absolutely intriguing and you do an excellent job of explaining everything in a way that's interesting and entertaining.
Ineffective maintenance on the ground, a captain who ignores comparitor warnings and fixates on his own instrument readings as the only truth, a FO who doesn't mention his own instruments are clearly showing the bank, and a FE who also realizes the bank is happening and says something but is ignored by everyone. What a huge, avoidable tragedy. Anyway, another excellent, well-informed, thoughtful analysis - thank you for your fine work.
OMG - intro - so smooth! Whoever does post production - it was very good choice.
The large cockpit gradient is a good example of a bad part of East asian culture.
It's pretty much "BUllying" by an ex-military senior pilot, that don't respect younger FO's - not uncommon and it's led to other tragic crashes. Not just on Asian carriers.
Korean Air still has this culture of gapjil. Just look for "nut rage" by the owner family.
Not just asian cultures! Why does everybody always say that? Western cultures not really much different.
@@toma60641 because I lived in Asia, America and Europe. And yes, east Asia is orders of magnitude worse, hierarchy is baked deeply into the culture and even languages. America is also bad, but not nearly as bad in this regard. Sweden probably had the flattest society I have seen so far.
I agree and disagree. When I worked in aerospace it was mainly for a Japanese company, and I saw many examples of a cultural tendency to fixed hierarchy and so on. However, there was some awareness of this issue and there were efforts to mitigate.
The situation in my previous (British, non-aerospace) employer was far worse in which an authoritarian culture was leading to endless problems and several fatal incidents.
I've never been in an airplane because I'm too afraid of them. There is a morbid part of me that looks up airplane crashes on TH-cam out of sheer fascination, so at some point, I found your "accident explanation" videos, and I'm so glad I did. My phobia aside, your explanations are not only technically informative, but super interesting. I've gone from being someone who was only looking to see scary footage to someone who is now deeply interested in learning about the reasons for such accidents. In my opinion, there's no better channel when it comes to details and insight. Somehow I'm less afraid of flying now that I've listened to you. Thanks for all that you do.
You are missing out. I hope you overcome this fearj
Cars, statistically, are far, fare more dangerous than planes. I know that might not do much for you, but it helps to put things in perspective
They very rarely crash, why not try overcome your fear..
It is very possible to overcome your fear of flying, if it's holding you back from things that you want to do in life, such as preventing you from visiting certain places or people. Counselling is available and I believe some airlines even run charter flights for people who are afraid of flying, to allow them the experience of flying without the pressure of "If I don't get on this plane, my expensive holiday is cancelled." Of course, if it's not causing you any harm, there's no need to do anything.
I don’t like flying myself but thankfully I wasn’t that scared that I wouldn’t get on a plane. I hope you overcome your fears. If for no other reason than the sense of achievement. The sense of ‘ I’ve beaten this fear, I’m stronger than I thought ‘. Good luck with it. 👍👍
This channel is better than the Smithsonian shows that I love, because we also get to geek out on the aviation side of things and get the direct perspective of an airline pilot.
I had a flight instructor during my privates (USA) who was from South Korea and she was very harsh and that was good for many reasons. But the first couple times she would get intense and condescending to me, I would freeze up and not be able to process what I needed to do. I went on autopilot basically. It was good to get that feeling and learn to deal with it but it took me longer to learn with her than other CFIs I have had before and since her. The culture is so different and harsh. I think there almost needs to be a little bit of special training for cultures like that.
I hope they translate this video into Korean and other languages, and make it part of the CRM training materials for any nation with a strongly hierarchical societal culture - I'm sure you could contact some folk about making this happen!
I am sure CRMs of all countries do this already, esp Korean airlines bcz it happened there only... The countries with cultural hierarchies know the problem... They definitely do case studies of accidents all over the globe...
Regarding your comment at 30:40: The "instrument as such" is not the indicator or display in cabin, but the INU. That is precisely the confusion that lead to the accident. We must ensure profesionals in aviation have this clear. I'd suggest putting a graphical note in that minute. All in all your video es very good.
The Guam crash was highlighted in Malcolm Gladwell's book "Outliers". Specifically Chapter 7: "The Ethnic Theory of Plane Crashes". The other chapters are great too, BTW.
This wasn't the Guam crash
Wasn't the Guam crash Flight 801?
It's amazing how fast this all happens when you watch the simulation, it's great you include that section.
Sir, your delivery and depth of comprehension is brilliant. The company employing you is blessed to have you.