Simon I am a RN. I have worked with a surgeon like this. Alarms were raised. However people just dying isn't enough. Doctors make the hospital money. Nurses cost the hospital money. Who is administration going to back? Also up until very recently almost no doctor would testify against another doctor. It was considered a betrayal. The nurses in this episode raised the alarm... Multiple times, in different countries and different hospitals. They are the real MVPs.
Your comment was 2 years ago, but just wanted to thank you for the things you wrote I too am an RN . Often we know what's happening, but we aren't supported.. And you're so right: Doctors make money for the hospital, but Nurses cost them money ..
The bit I hate is the "betrayal" part: they take an OATH before they practice, right? Not too each other, but to DO NO HARM? Hiding the wrongs is so very harmful
Oh please, as if nurses aren't known to cover each other and as if there aren't many cases of angels of death that were nurses. Also, I definetly know that the blonde nurse in the UK that killed babies was covered by administration as well, to give one example.
I read a book about Swango. The warnings from the nurses at Ohio State were completeiy dismissed. It was a different time. Nurses weren't doctors so their opinions didn't matter.
@@laerramarie2620well, a doctor is the focus of this podcast/video, the comments are naturally geared to doctors. When the subject matter is the nursing profession, you’ll get your chance to just go nuts with anti-RN commentary, okay? In the meantime, please do get your knickers out of that bunch.
My father was one of his last victims, at the VA hospital on Long Island. My father who was petrified of doctors loved this guy. The FBI exhumed my father's body for the court case against Swango. I meet him personally a number of time including finding him in my father room moments before he died.
@@jasonwaddle6573 he has both. Allegedly came out first, Alegendly is more recent. You can even get a onesie for your baby that says Allegedly, as well as a coffee cup.
I so want one! We used to say allegedly after each statement when I was in jail because the state was recording conversations to use against us in court. 😅
There are a few doctor Deaths around. I recently watched a docudrama about Christopher Duntsch an American neurosurgeon who left a trail of maimed and dead patients in his wake. He was the epitome of a narcissist who thought he was god. The most appalling thing about this was how he was protected by the medical board because of their health care system. His credentials were impeccable and the hospitals wanted him because…. You guessed it he attracted a lot of money to the hospitals. It would be a great story for the Casual Criminalist.
A possible suggestion for an episode: take a look at the Dagobert case out of Germany. It is an extortionist-bomber case from the late 80s and early 90s and has enough twists and turns to give Callum plenty to work with. Also, I haven't seen many people in the true crime community talk about it.
Yes. I remember the story from my childhood. THAT was a crazy thing. News were full of it at the time. You know, Simon already did a take on the most prolific killer / terrorist / murderer woman (who turned out to be just a worker packing those q-tips for genetic testing and thus turned up everywhere). This story is as crazy.
Had my first day of med school orientation earlier today! The dean of admissions told us “if you see something, say something” and told us about this monster. Recognized who he was talking about right away cause of this video! Hopefully nothing close to this happens again
Regarding Norway's "preventive detention" for Anders Breivik, he was sentenced to 21 years in prison, the most possible at one time. However, at the end of the sentence, they can review it and add 5 years. This can be done each time the sentence would end, leading to an effective life sentence.
* _up to 5_ years at a time * maximum minimim-time-served they can set is 10 years. A felon can start applying after the minimum time set. In ABB's case, an effective life sentence is likely (which is a rarity). With his court psych evaluations considering him of sound mind, and him expressing that he fully understood the severity of his actions, from planning, to during the murders, in court and to this day, but still calculated and "justified" them as a "neccessary evil for the greater good" - its very hard to see what kind of personal development he could possibly demonstrate that could justify his release. If you're in full understanding, both mentally and emotionally, of all the horrible facets and consequences of murdering innocent people, and in sound mind still able to plan and execute mass murder, bombing public area and looking dozens of children and adults straight in the eyes as you go around gunning them down one by one... IMO there's no coming back from that. From such a baseline, there's no personal development anyone could go through, that could convince a panel of professional evaluators that you're no longer at significant risk of doing similar things again.
And If he gets out, itse likely some family member of The wictims will kill him. One year on prison with good behavior and some leniancy from the judge is not a big price to pay If you want revenge on the sick sob...
@@dakesnake564 There are multiple (former) convicts in similar risk. Some get police protection, in rare cases some have gotten moved around before release and then released in a different region with a "new identity" (not like with a clean record, but change of name, personal ID number etc). I don't think anyone would get any court leniency if they murdered this guy after he served his sentance, after some hypothetical release 20-30-40 years after his conviction. Taking some liberties of assumption in this hypothetical scenario, that would be premeditated murder, motivated by wants of revenge. After he was tried, convicted and had served out the sentance as imposed by those entrusted by that society to pass such judgements. Norway is a small country in terms of population. Beyond his bombing of the central government building, his mass murder spree was conducted on a small island hosting the annual _national youth gathering_ for the country's largest political party (Labor Party). Meaning there are few in Norway that weren't personally impacted by this, directly or close indirectly. In 35 days is the 10 year "anniversary" of the incident. I lost kin myself that day, and could somewhat relate to the pain, despair and anger of a person considering such actions as the aformentioned hypothetical. But in such a case, I don't think there would be any judicial leniency for such a murder. Vendettas and revenge murders are one of the absolute basic tenants that law and justice were "made" to prevent and sanction. Revenge (murder) of someone having been duly charged, convicted by a court of law and served their sentance, is particularly serious in the eyes of justice, because of its blatant demonstration of disregard for the core concepts of law (enforcement) and justice society has fashioned and agreed to - in addition to the crime itself.
Yeah he did terrorism in the wrong country. Norwegians are very loyal to eachother, having another Norwegian do that- eughhh. Haven't seen them -that angry- *angry* since they were weeding out the _Quislings_ ..... Mostly they just go on hikes in their wool shirts! D: (No, shh, you can't kill me. I'm half Norwegian and that half is a minority! òvó I don't get a share of the oil and salmon money, so I get to make jokes.)
In Norway there is something called 21 years of detention. This means you will get 21 years in prison. After the 21 years, you go through a mental test to see if you are rehabilitated. I hope this answers your question.
exactly! Whats next, professionalism at Business Blaze? Actually paying writers instead of kidnapping them? No no no we don`t need any of that nonsens.
Dr. Michael Swango was not a neurosurgeon. He finished an internship (1 year post-graduate), but did not finish a residency (2nd and 3rd year postgraduate training, longer for some specialties). He graduated from medical school 4 years before I did. Swango’s crimes was a big story at the time.
The safeguards against this kind of thing are worse than non-existent. Medical schools are so scared of liability that they are more likely to write a questionable student a recommendation to another school than to take action against them. In cases of malice or extreme incompetence, there is usually a long line of organizations passing the problem off to each other.
That's so common in a lot of professions. Schools and police departments handle improprieties very similarly. Fire/remove them but then write a referral.
@@doc_sav I think it depends where they're caught, also. I know we just had a police officer in my state who finally got caught, charged and convicted of raping women for the last 15+ years. He would get caught at one department, get fired and then just go work in another town. 80 miles up the way there is another police officer with a similar story, though his spree was shorter.
So, rather than get rid of the problem, they just make it someone else's problem and go 'Yeah, the problem is solved because we don't have to deal with it?' like, surely the industry that is meant to preserve life and take every precaution possible would do better than this?
Alot of hospitals won't report things like that for fear of being sued..that's why if someone dies and they look into it and find the back story such as he's done this before and we moved him to a different wing the entire hospital is culpable. Absolutely love the way you tell these stories..Best entertainment I've had in awhile. Just found you and I gave up Netflix for the past week just to catch up
My dad is a surgeon and we’ve had many conversations about just how easy it would be for a doctor to get away with murder and this story just solidifies that 😳 I’ve been in and out of hospitals a lot...scary stuff. (And to clarify, no my dad has never killed anyone XD)
As an MD myself, I started at OSU a year after Swango in the same surgery dept. when I was a medical student in San Antonio, I was doing a rotation at Santa Rosa Children’s Hospital when I saw crime tape around the outside door leading to the pediatric ICU. That was when Genene Jones was killing babies. And for the most amazing 3rd coincidence, I practiced at the same hospital in Ohio where Dr Husel was. (just got acquitted for murder). I never met any of these characters, thank God, but the coincidences are eerie.
Simon is so incredibly innocent when he believes the rules, structures, and review boards are in place to protect the people and patients AND NOT the people in charge and people committing all the crimes. Simon my friend, the structure is in place to deflect blame, not solve problems. Also, OJ had several lawyers, 1 being Robert Kardashian, father of Kim and the other Kardashian sisters, but the most famous one you're thinking of is Johnny Cochran, famous for the quote "If the glove don't fit, you MUST Acquit."
This, and hospital culture is notorious for sheltering doctors and squashing any dissention from nurses and staff. Surgeons are basically encouraged to get a god complex.
@@audreymuzingo933 It's a South Park joke. During the middle of a trial, he'd pull out a picture of Chewbacca and talk how he lived on Endor with tiny Ewoks (this was before Wookies had a home planet in the canon, I think) and how it didn't make sense. And because that didn't make sense, his client was not guilty.
I cannot stop picturing the good Dr. Mike every time you say Dr. Mike. And it's so juxtaposing bc the good Dr. Mike is just so wholesome and amazing and a total sweetheart, and this is a video about viscous needless murder.
Back in the 1980s and 1990s hospitals kept stock drugs of frequently used drugs on every nursing unit. Nurses mixed every IV bag that needed potassium added or other additives. No counts were kept of these stock drugs although they were in a locked room or cupboard. Dr death could easily grab potassium by the vials and fill his pockets. Pharmacy began to manage all this stuff in the late 90s and took over mixing all in bags due to fatal errors. Back then only narcotics were carefully controlled and counted each shift.
So if you ever do a “Don’t Write Down Your Crimes” shirt, have it written on a blackboard while it is being pointed at by a stereotypical bank robber in a professor cap.
@@momcat2223 The problem with that last point is you have to be a psycho to commit crimes. Or at least on the scale of crimes that usually gets covered here.
38:44 I live in Namibia and I got a chill down my spine…… We still really do need doctors and in general better medical care but hearing that some sicko came down here to hide and most probably kill is horrific
Simon, would you consider covering the murderous couple who own the Osterich inn located in Colnbrook, Berkshire? This was back a few 100 years (the pub was built in the 1200’s) and they used to do terrible things to those who would rent a room for the night. The inn is still operating today and they do a lovely Christmas dinner :)
I just have to say, as someone who has worked in healthcare for over a decade, I *hate* when actors pretending to be medical professionals do so by squirting out half of whatever is in their syringe!! It's a huge pet peeve of mine.
Similarly, there's thatsnothowyoupipette tumblr for people who are irritated by actor scientists doing nonsese pipette activities. lol. Still, it's just a show. It's meant to look good, not be realistic....most of the time.
If you don't do that " squirting" you risk to inject bubbles of air into the veins causing embolism. Good you somehow managed not to kill anyone in you career. Textbok proceduure to make sure there is no air in the siringe.
@@RejectedInch they didn't say not to get the air out, they said that you shouldn't squirt out half the syringe. you don't need to be rude and condescending about it, im sure they're doing just fine.
I can absolutely see how he got away with his crimes for so long. He volunteered for positions that most people turn down out of hand. He had a macabre sense of humour in a group where it’s not unusual.
My mom is Zimbabwean so hearing you trying to pronounce their names was hilarious! (ps. i was listening to this on spotify but i had to come here to tell you the pronunciations are funny lol)
Thanks Simon! A mate of mine and his family lived in Zimbabwe and knew the landlord well. He told me about double-o-swango and lent me a book on him around 2004.
I wouldn't define it as cold, pretty much the opposite, Simon gets especially heated, like in this one. Watching him react to the script is really a winning concept.
I love this show from top to bottom. Callum writes strong, well-researched, sometimes cheeky scripts; Jen adds the most brilliant images/clips, sound, and other bells/whistles that make the entire affair an experience; and Simon is just absolutely hilarious!! I love the asides and ramblings, as do all of us (or we wouldn't tune in). The humor is witty, cheeky, and always spot-on. Crime, especially murder, is a very serious subject, especially for those affected by said crimes/murders. Yet you manage to lighten it up by, dare I say it, voicing what we're all thinking but often too embarrassed to vocalize ourselves. I thank you for the work all three of you do, for both informing and entertaining (wow, that got dark fast) us. Much love :)
Nurses: "Hey, we're pretty sure that that new doctor-- you know the guy, that weirdo with all the patients dying on his watch? Well, we're pretty sure that he's not *only* completely incompetent and doesn't know how to do even first-year stuff properly, but we also believe that the reason so many patients have unexpectedly died on his watch is that he's deliberately killing them." Hospital Administrators: ... Nurses: "Like, his patients that suddenly and unexpectedly got really sick and almost died all say that *he injected stuff into them right before they got sick.* Hell, we *caught* him standing over one of them with a syringe ad a creepy grin right before she started vomiting!" Hospital Administrators: "...Do you mean that *doctor?* That *male* doctor?" Nurses: "Shit..." Hospital Administrators: "That *white, male, doctor* ? You *women* think that a *doctor* is killing our patients, just because they keep dying on his watch and our mortality rate has sharply risen since he joined us? *How dare you.* " Nurses: "Look, if you don't do anything we're calling the police! He's killing people! He's a murderer!!" Hospital Administrators: "You will do *no* such thing; and if I hear even a whisper that the police are harassing him, not only will every single one of you be fired, you will *never* work in this field again." Nurses: "...he's even poisoned some of us. And the EMTs." Hospital Administrators: "God, would you women just stop gossiping?!" --Like, I know Simon and Callum never specifically stated it, but it's the Eighties and Nineties. Most of the doctors are going to be men. All of the administrators are going to be men. And the nurses are pretty much all going to be women. There's absolutely *no way* he wouldn't have been stopped a lot sooner and had the *book* thrown at him if he hadn't been white, and a guy. And the circumstantial evidence (let alone the eyewitness testimony of surviving victims) would have *easily* been enough. Maybe if a male doctor had gone with them, the nurses would have been listened to. :/
@@KryssLaBryn you’re inflating the importance of race and gender here. While that might play a small role, hospital administrators care about throughput, operating margin, lawsuits, and career options. Nurses might care about actual patient mortality, but admins see lawsuits, bad pr, fundraising problems, and job loss.
@@strategic1710 Exactly. Look up Dr Johnny Delashaw. He was hired by a hospital in Seattle and took over their neurosurgery program, and turned it into a chop shop where he would schedule 4 surgeries at once, which were being performed by residents without the required supervision. Patient aftercare suffered as well due to the massive volume, and at least one patient died needlessly. Anyone who spoke out was bullied into silence. My last interaction with him before I left the company was him trying to bully me into billing a spine surgery that he admitted he was not even at the hospital for, and changing his operative report to say he was there, which is just fraud. He was finally fired, and maybe lost his license (I can't remember for sure). Then it came out that he'd been doing the same stuff in California. But the hospital didn't care because he was bringing in so much money.
@@strategic1710 we see them harming patients, and follow our legal obligation to report. Admin looks at how much money they bring in and does nothing. Working in a rural hospital with traveling docs one step ahead of the DEA, they would fire a nurse in a heart beat to protect a surgeon, especially if it was a high dollar specialist. Seen it happen. Saw the same surgeon finally get “put on leave” and his contract not renewed because he was too impaired to stand up for more than a hot minute and was trying to get a stool to perform surgery. The nurse who called security and the admin rep was fired quietly two weeks later for not being a “team player.” She sued, but nursing’s a small world. She never worked in an OR again.
@@bwktlcn I don’t doubt any of that. Most people think their value lies in the importance of their job, but it doesn’t. It lies in how replaceable you are relative to revenue you generate relative to what you cost. There are tons of specifics under these umbrellas, but the importance of your job is not one of them, otherwise janitors would make 6 figures.
Okay. Let's talk about this. I've known about Swango for years. The reason that he got away with this for so long is the fact that in the 80's & 90's the states did Not communicate with each other about medical professionals. I lived at the edge of 2 states (MO & KS) at one point and at the edge of 4 states (MO, KS, OK, & AR) at another point in my nursing career. I tended to have multiple nursing licenses because that's what you had to have back then. If I had been stripped of my license in one state, I could always practice in one of the others. Just FYI: I never had to do this & I was on the lookout for those that did so I could report them. The monitoring on doctors was even worse. Also, nurses & doctors could become paramedics with ease-as Swango did. The shortage of medical personnel did the rest. I had a CNA that was a Tweaker (crystal meth) & I got her fired from a facility that I was working at but they rehired her as soon as I left. You might also want to check Genene Jones. She was an Angel of Death. She was on staff at 2 different hospitals & then a nurse at a doctor's office where they caught her after she killed at least one patient. It was easier to catch her there since there weren't many folks that could have poisoned the patients. The doctor that hired her had absolutely no idea that she was a killer & that doctor's practice suffered horrible consequences. The shortage is even worse now since the pandemic killed many nurses & doctors and also scared many off. I trained for the next pandemic for decades but now I'm disabled & can't work. This is something that also happens to many nurses, CNAs (Certified Nurse Assistant), paramedics, etc.
Let's not forget the most recent Dr. Death from Texas, Christopher Duntsch. I find his case fascinating and I sorta understood much of what happened through osmosis from my mom (RN and my rock, don't know what I'd do without her), what Duntsch did to those people was horrendous and I still don't understand why people in the OR didn't do more to stop him. I'd like to hear Simon's thoughts and commentary on Duntsch if he ever does an episode about him.
Yes, Simon, there really was a time before the internet. You are a very young, but extremely talented man. Even though we had computers in the late 80's -early 90's, they were nothing like today's computers. Entire offices were not networked. DNA was a just a glint in scientists eye. Crime went undetected and unsolved. Great Video Episode! Subscribed and notified.😎
Nah, we had DNA down pretty well by the 90s. The networking thing is true enough though. Early 90s, we were paying by the hour for our dial up internet and hoping we didn't miss any calls during it.
You should cover the story of Gloria Ramirez, aka "The Toxic Lady," who was checked into a hospital and handling her body and blood made her doctors and nurses ill for an (at the time) unknown reason. It's a really interesting story, and I haven't seen many people cover it! That might be because it isn't really a 'criminal' thing, but even if you covered it on a different channel, it would be neat.
Dude I love any of your videos. It's the way you conduct your self your vids. Passion right there. Well done keep it up. So darn Professional and yet so darn for the people. Amazed
No crimes are written here notebook is an amazing idea millions sold would be a surprise... For the real numbers probably reaching billions to the power of 10 make it and it will sell
A suggestion: The story of Danish inventor-tinkerer Peter Madsen. I won't give any spoilers here, but I believe Callum would be able to dredge up enough evidence for a short episode.
I am so loving the way you started these episodes in comparison to how you start them in the newer ones. You're growing in your confidence and in your ability to enjoy yourself a bit more. I love your shows and watching you grow. It's wild, and thank you for sharing all your wonderful content with us Simon. Jen, Callum, and your other writers are amazing. I couldn't imagine that I'd find content as good as yours on TH-cam! Thank you so much!
In support of the "Specialists suck at other medicine" argument, an Orthopedist was doing back surgery on a woman's spine. He saw a tumor and decided to remove it while he was in there. That tumor turned out to just be her kidney. He removed a woman's kidney while operating on her back because he thought it was a tumor.
I'm not sure if I believe that. Orthopaedic surgeons have to go to med school too (so I'm told). And anyone who's ever been to med school knows, pretty much the first third is rote learning, and most of that is A&P. You even get real life corpses to probe! So if you don't know what a kidney looks like and approximately where in the body you might find one, you probably aren't going to be doing surgery, because you probably failed med school. Of course, I've heard all sorts of hilarious jokes about ortho guys, but not generally involving kidneys. So you never know.
@@felixjones9198 The patient's name was Maureen Pacheco, she sued three surgeons over it and won. It was published on numerous news sources. The Associated Press, Fox News, USA Today, and a metric crap load of local news sources. At least one of the surgeons who was named in the suit was fined by the medical board. I assure you, it happened.
@@neonclear8500 wow, I'd never heard of that, I imagine the AMA surpressed it as best they could. I'm not surprised she won in that case. We had a case in the UK when I was a resident where a surgeon amputated the wrong leg from a patient. I'm not claiming to be infallible by any means, I've probably killed the same as any average doc has (not sure of the statistics but I'd guess 2-3 over a career, it's not something we like to dwell on). But I've never mistaken a kidney for a tumour and never accidentally cut off the wrong part. That kind of thing is pretty unforgivable IMHO.
The Adams County passage at 28:43 refers to Swango’s arrest and prosecution in the summer of 84’ for the crime of poisoning fellow EMT’s. In the otherwise sleepy riverside town of Quincy Illinois this was a pretty shocking story. As I recall, the prosecution made a fairly weak case - though he was convicted. It was many years later that I read the accounts of his notorious career as a globetrotting serial killer. Evil is real.
Another very interesting episode! Thanks to all who help produce this channel! Possible recommend: it would be interesting to hear an episode on John Jamelske - the boogeyman/dungeon master of Syracuse NY.
Can you do one about Locusta, history’s first Serial Killer. (And arguably the most deadly if the estimates of a couple hundred - 1,000+ is to be believed)
@Lassi Kinnunen 81 she only killed a few people for the state, she ran a school of sorts where she tested her poisons out on innocent people, which wasn’t sanctioned by the state since she had been arrested for it twice in her life only getting out due to her connections.
@Lassi Kinnunen 81 I mean. I could work for the president and still be a killer so long as he didn't sanction/approve of me killing right. Locusta used her position to kill in general. She got away with it because the rich wanted her services and so she could kill without any opposition. I mean if 99% of someone's murders are not sanctioned compared to the few that were, I think that's a more than fair ratio to be called a Serial Killer. But I will concede she wasn't your typical serial killer either.
@@PhuckedUpPhilosophy With ancient figures it is hard to nail down. I’ve seen estimates that put Locusta in the thousands in terms of poison victims. But even if we just said a flat 900+ vs 1000+ it’s likely though not guaranteed that she has a higher kill count
Hell Yes I remember that guy! I volunteered at OSU hospital when I was in high school and it was when he was there. Creepy. Another great episode guys. 👍🏻
@@jesmondsaunders7746 exactly, it’s the ONLY thing I know about them other than their names 🤣 So the fact Simon didn’t throw out the name Kardashian amused me.
In the US up until the 1920's it was still not uncommon that doctors compounded and dispensed their own drugs. Do to many occasions where there were problems with some of the 'recipes' used, or mistakes in strengths and so on, some of which may not necessarily have been completely accidental but more likely "accidents on purpose" this did give rise to the advent if drug stores and pharmacies for dispensing drugs by prescription drugs a doctor ordered. Many were still compounded from recipes doctors wrote for pharmacists and over time it did finally allow a pharmacist to double check ingredients and amounts and not prepare drugs that could kill people. Eventually most drug stores and pharmacists would need special licenses to compounded medications and most sold only drugs that were prepared in set strengths and packaged by pharmaceutical companies to yet afford more checks and balances and make things safer. Even then there were cases where doctors ordered strengths to great for the size of the patient or were written so they were gard to read leaning to more laws requiring medications to require at least 2 people hand any medication dispensed or prepared to hand even more checks and balances.
I am left wondering....If his mother encouraged him to keep binders of murders, etc.....What about her? As an old, retired, tired, wore out, and broken down homicide investigator I'm left to wonder.....How many people did she kill?
I stumbled on this channel from his biographics channel, finished watching all those and needed a new channel to listen to while doing my route at work. It's been three months roughly since I started listening. Love the channel, even if my mental state may be shattered by this binge. Well 35 more episodes to go
To say, "I hope you enjoyed..." is just fine. Even the darkest stories, it's the telling of them, your interjections, that make it all enjoyable. -OGLegend from Cleveland.
So love this channel. Callum's script, Simon's commentary and music and visuals all add up to a great way of making dark subject matter rather entertaining
Pharmacist would absolutely check the dosage before sending to the floor. Nurses check and cross check multiple factors before administration, including; dosage, route, time, name, dob, last administered dose and other factors.
But, still, it's not 100% perfect. I remember reading something about a case where, due to a whole bunch of things going wrong, a patient got a very wrong dose of their medication and nearly died. Can't find it at the moment, but one of the things that went wrong was alert fatigue, but of course that wasn't the only thing that didn't help. Obviously things are much better since people are more aware of this issue, but that doesn't mean things don't go wrong sometimes.
A Dr.Death 3 could be the case of Christopher Duntsch. He was a neurosurgeon in Dallas who don't have the biggest of sprees, but he certainly make up the lack of high numbers in horror and cruelty.
I wouldn't really call what Gein did a reign of terror. He killed three people, at most...and a huge lapse of time between the first and the second. No, it was more a horror show for the investigating police.
In the 80's and 90's, a lot of hospitals didn't have the kinds of check and balances on medication and surgeries like they do today. Also, nursing staff often wasn't given any creditability by doctors and administrators. It was an insult to the doctors, especially the male doctors over female nurses. As to the 'MD', anyone in the US with a PhD can be called as a 'Doctor', so MD is a way to distinguish them for other non-medical doctors. Also, beside 'MD', some medical doctors are also labeled as 'OD' (Doctor of Osteopathic medicine; DC for doctor of chiropractic; DVM for doctor of veterinary medicine; OB/GYN for Obstetrics and Genecology; etc.
The blackout ripper: had a killing spree during the Blitz, killed 4 people and attempted to murder two others. He was an RAF officer named Gordon Cummins
Jesus...talk about an opportunist. Waits for the Nazis to start bombing the hell out of England before killing. In terms of a cover, you really don't get much better.
0:06 “Dr Death Part 2. No, Harold Shipman did not come back to life, get released from prison and kill more people - you’d have heard about that; he died in prison, fortunately.”
I am hesitant to suggest the Jamie Bulger case as it is one of those cases, that just causes absolute heartbreak. But at the same time it would be to see Callum's take on it. Tough seeing as it was solved pretty quickly it is more appropriate for a short. IT is absolutely up to you guys. I really enjoy the show.
Saw the title, thought at first this was going to be about Dr Christopher Duntsch. Then thought, Simon, you should *absolutely* do an episode about him.
Michael Swango strongly resembles - down to the creepy, soulless eyes - John Smith, the guy who killed two wives when they threatened to leave him, famously constructing a wood box in which to store the remains of the first one. The body of the second has never been found, presumably because he learned from his mistakes from the first murder. And I can't help but think that the nurses' warnings were dismissed because hospital admin thought they were being typical hysterical women.
That intersection of women's words against a man's and nurses against a doctor basically means those nurses never stood a chance at actually stopping him.
@@Bluesit32 As well as the racism and classism implied in rural African people not knowing if they are getting killed and being too dumb and backward to understand if they are getting well from the Drs treatment or not.
Oh yes there were several nurses in u.s. and in africa who reported him. I read a book about swango and it detailed how the nurses were basically not believed, and the doctors were. One doctor at ohio state basically said of the nurses "what do they know lol".
@@kraanz So do I? But I don't pretend everyone see the same way I do? There are different kind of way to have bad eyesight. And also its based on what the person is using to view the screen.. If its a small phone, or a large TV screen... It makes a difference. Not sure why you are being so rude about it. The world doesnt evolve around you
There's a really creepy set of murders in the USA, in Kansas. The guy had storage rented for the barrels, and a farm in a rural area, also with barrels, with bodies stored in them - the farm is only about 20 miles from my house, so I really took notice of the story! His name was John Edwards Robinson, Sr. He was an internet victim hunter, a bondage person... called himself a "slave master," and it's definitely a really creepy story!
43:37 Simon misinterpreting Norwegian prison again. After a maximum of 21 years, you have to be re-evaluated. This is where they decide if you've served enough, or need more prison. Anders Breivik is definitely not going to pass and will be sent right back to prison for another 5 years, and they'll probably keep doing it until he dies.
"...because they were so short of doctors." And therein lies the answer to Simon's repeated query "Why hasn't he been caught/stopped already??" That, and the fact that doctors don't like to criticize each other. OSU caught a ton of crap over this--rightly so! I worked at OSU Med Center when the last trial was going on and everybody had a real "Oh, we don't talk about him," attitude. But abnormally, no one actually talked about him behind their hands either. NO ONE would talk about it, publicly or privately. It was a real shame of the medical community, the public saying that OSU was responsible for all victims afterward (with some justification). Swango is serving 3 consecutive life sentences without parole. Being prosecuted on 4 victims, it is believed he is responsible for up to 60 victims. Sleep well, children.
Suggestions: Not sure if this too gruesome but any of the Soviet era serial killers would be cool. Maybe even a series that features some of the best well known. Metal teeth killer(cannibal)
And the Chess Killer who had planned to outdo those Soviet Serial Killers. Forget his name but he had a huge plan that just...did not go how he wanted.
@@RubyBlueUwU Can you Imagine picking up stuff at Home Despot and marking off rope, big black trash bags, etcetera on your nifty “don’t write…” list and suddenly… VERY LOUDLY go oh my gosh! I forgot to put down liners! What am I going to line the floors with?!
I follow so many of your channels but I love the side of you we get with The Casual Criminalist, your reactions to what you're reading to us are brilliant
Simon I am a RN. I have worked with a surgeon like this. Alarms were raised. However people just dying isn't enough. Doctors make the hospital money. Nurses cost the hospital money. Who is administration going to back? Also up until very recently almost no doctor would testify against another doctor. It was considered a betrayal. The nurses in this episode raised the alarm... Multiple times, in different countries and different hospitals. They are the real MVPs.
Your comment was 2 years ago, but just wanted to thank you for the things you wrote I too am an RN . Often we know what's happening, but we aren't supported.. And you're so right: Doctors make money for the hospital, but Nurses cost them money ..
The bit I hate is the "betrayal" part: they take an OATH before they practice, right?
Not too each other, but to DO NO HARM? Hiding the wrongs is so very harmful
Oh please, as if nurses aren't known to cover each other and as if there aren't many cases of angels of death that were nurses. Also, I definetly know that the blonde nurse in the UK that killed babies was covered by administration as well, to give one example.
I read a book about Swango. The warnings from the nurses at Ohio State were completeiy dismissed. It was a different time. Nurses weren't doctors so their opinions didn't matter.
@@laerramarie2620well, a doctor is the focus of this podcast/video, the comments are naturally geared to doctors. When the subject matter is the nursing profession, you’ll get your chance to just go nuts with anti-RN commentary, okay? In the meantime, please do get your knickers out of that bunch.
My father was one of his last victims, at the VA hospital on Long Island. My father who was petrified of doctors loved this guy. The FBI exhumed my father's body for the court case against Swango. I meet him personally a number of time including finding him in my father room moments before he died.
Im so sorry
😮
Jesus Fucking Christ
I am VERY sorry for your loss! Scary close encounter
Thank you for your father's service. I'm very sorry for your loss. May the happy memories be a guiding light in your times of sorrow.
I’d definitely buy a “Don’t write down your crimes” or an ‘Allegedly” tshirt
He does have an "Allegedly" tee in the purchthemerch.co shop :)
@@madqueen6632 well, it actually says "A-legend-ly". But close enough.
@@jasonwaddle6573 he has both. Allegedly came out first, Alegendly is more recent. You can even get a onesie for your baby that says Allegedly, as well as a coffee cup.
I so want one! We used to say allegedly after each statement when I was in jail because the state was recording conversations to use against us in court. 😅
Waiting on that don’t write down your crimes drop...I’d buy out the shop
There are a few doctor Deaths around. I recently watched a docudrama about Christopher Duntsch an American neurosurgeon who left a trail of maimed and dead patients in his wake. He was the epitome of a narcissist who thought he was god. The most appalling thing about this was how he was protected by the medical board because of their health care system. His credentials were impeccable and the hospitals wanted him because…. You guessed it he attracted a lot of money to the hospitals. It would be a great story for the Casual Criminalist.
A possible suggestion for an episode: take a look at the Dagobert case out of Germany. It is an extortionist-bomber case from the late 80s and early 90s and has enough twists and turns to give Callum plenty to work with. Also, I haven't seen many people in the true crime community talk about it.
@@annagarris3946 huh?
Yes. I remember the story from my childhood. THAT was a crazy thing. News were full of it at the time.
You know, Simon already did a take on the most prolific killer / terrorist / murderer woman (who turned out to be just a worker packing those q-tips for genetic testing and thus turned up everywhere).
This story is as crazy.
@@robertnett9793 what episode was that?? I need to watch that one stat.
That would be really entertaining :)
@@Nomorehandlenames9230 phantom of heilbronn
Had my first day of med school orientation earlier today! The dean of admissions told us “if you see something, say something” and told us about this monster. Recognized who he was talking about right away cause of this video! Hopefully nothing close to this happens again
Regarding Norway's "preventive detention" for Anders Breivik, he was sentenced to 21 years in prison, the most possible at one time. However, at the end of the sentence, they can review it and add 5 years. This can be done each time the sentence would end, leading to an effective life sentence.
* _up to 5_ years at a time
* maximum minimim-time-served they can set is 10 years. A felon can start applying after the minimum time set.
In ABB's case, an effective life sentence is likely (which is a rarity). With his court psych evaluations considering him of sound mind, and him expressing that he fully understood the severity of his actions, from planning, to during the murders, in court and to this day, but still calculated and "justified" them as a "neccessary evil for the greater good" - its very hard to see what kind of personal development he could possibly demonstrate that could justify his release.
If you're in full understanding, both mentally and emotionally, of all the horrible facets and consequences of murdering innocent people, and in sound mind still able to plan and execute mass murder, bombing public area and looking dozens of children and adults straight in the eyes as you go around gunning them down one by one... IMO there's no coming back from that. From such a baseline, there's no personal development anyone could go through, that could convince a panel of professional evaluators that you're no longer at significant risk of doing similar things again.
And If he gets out, itse likely some family member of The wictims will kill him. One year on prison with good behavior and some leniancy from the judge is not a big price to pay If you want revenge on the sick sob...
@@dakesnake564 There are multiple (former) convicts in similar risk. Some get police protection, in rare cases some have gotten moved around before release and then released in a different region with a "new identity" (not like with a clean record, but change of name, personal ID number etc).
I don't think anyone would get any court leniency if they murdered this guy after he served his sentance, after some hypothetical release 20-30-40 years after his conviction. Taking some liberties of assumption in this hypothetical scenario, that would be premeditated murder, motivated by wants of revenge. After he was tried, convicted and had served out the sentance as imposed by those entrusted by that society to pass such judgements.
Norway is a small country in terms of population. Beyond his bombing of the central government building, his mass murder spree was conducted on a small island hosting the annual _national youth gathering_ for the country's largest political party (Labor Party). Meaning there are few in Norway that weren't personally impacted by this, directly or close indirectly. In 35 days is the 10 year "anniversary" of the incident. I lost kin myself that day, and could somewhat relate to the pain, despair and anger of a person considering such actions as the aformentioned hypothetical. But in such a case, I don't think there would be any judicial leniency for such a murder. Vendettas and revenge murders are one of the absolute basic tenants that law and justice were "made" to prevent and sanction. Revenge (murder) of someone having been duly charged, convicted by a court of law and served their sentance, is particularly serious in the eyes of justice, because of its blatant demonstration of disregard for the core concepts of law (enforcement) and justice society has fashioned and agreed to - in addition to the crime itself.
Hopefully his new identity and address will be leaked as soon as he gets out.
Yeah he did terrorism in the wrong country. Norwegians are very loyal to eachother, having another Norwegian do that- eughhh. Haven't seen them -that angry- *angry* since they were weeding out the _Quislings_ ..... Mostly they just go on hikes in their wool shirts! D:
(No, shh, you can't kill me. I'm half Norwegian and that half is a minority! òvó I don't get a share of the oil and salmon money, so I get to make jokes.)
As a paramedic, I would like to thank you both for appreciating EMTs
Same! My dad is a retired paramedic.
And thank you, Samantha!
I'm an ICU nurse and several of my buddies are EMTs, it's not for the faint of heart.
There needs to be fancy casual criminalist notepads for sale with "CRIMES" written on the front.
Yes! There could be kill list and shopping list pages hahaha
Yes!
@@mariet4894 Or *Chopping List* ....!!! Bah Dah boom tisssssss...!!!
That’s the best merch idea ever!
Or notebooks/journals and maybe a fancy crime pen.
In Norway there is something called 21 years of detention. This means you will get 21 years in prison. After the 21 years, you go through a mental test to see if you are rehabilitated. I hope this answers your question.
No no, we’ll have none of this “Professionalism” here please . As you were my good man
This isn’t top tenz, this the weird cousin of business blaze. We don’t do professionalism here sir.
There are a lot of "professionals" doing true crime. We need are boi.
HERE! HERE!
Carry on.
exactly! Whats next, professionalism at Business Blaze? Actually paying writers instead of kidnapping them? No no no we don`t need any of that nonsens.
I always thought business blaze was the weird cousin 😂
Dr. Michael Swango was not a neurosurgeon. He finished an internship (1 year post-graduate), but did not finish a residency (2nd and 3rd year postgraduate training, longer for some specialties).
He graduated from medical school 4 years before I did. Swango’s crimes was a big story at the time.
The safeguards against this kind of thing are worse than non-existent. Medical schools are so scared of liability that they are more likely to write a questionable student a recommendation to another school than to take action against them. In cases of malice or extreme incompetence, there is usually a long line of organizations passing the problem off to each other.
That's so common in a lot of professions. Schools and police departments handle improprieties very similarly. Fire/remove them but then write a referral.
@@karrie7102 That is certainly true, but I don't think any of those enjoy the level of protection that doctors seem to be granted regularly.
@@doc_sav I think it depends where they're caught, also. I know we just had a police officer in my state who finally got caught, charged and convicted of raping women for the last 15+ years. He would get caught at one department, get fired and then just go work in another town. 80 miles up the way there is another police officer with a similar story, though his spree was shorter.
So, rather than get rid of the problem, they just make it someone else's problem and go 'Yeah, the problem is solved because we don't have to deal with it?' like, surely the industry that is meant to preserve life and take every precaution possible would do better than this?
That’s sad.
Alot of hospitals won't report things like that for fear of being sued..that's why if someone dies and they look into it and find the back story such as he's done this before and we moved him to a different wing the entire hospital is culpable.
Absolutely love the way you tell these stories..Best entertainment I've had in awhile. Just found you and I gave up Netflix for the past week just to catch up
I would love to see an episode on Futoshi Matstunaga, I believe he's sometimes called Japans Mind Control Killer? It's some crazy shit.
Callum is in Japan when he’s not locked in the Blazement fighting Danny for North-South supremacy. He’s probably be all over it.
Super late but Lazy Masquerade did a video on that case, you should check it out
My dad is a surgeon and we’ve had many conversations about just how easy it would be for a doctor to get away with murder and this story just solidifies that 😳 I’ve been in and out of hospitals a lot...scary stuff. (And to clarify, no my dad has never killed anyone XD)
"he put into my buttocks. Then he put it in his jacket pocket, waved goodbye & walked away.", I hope to never have to utter that in my life.
As an MD myself, I started at OSU a year after Swango in the same surgery dept. when I was a medical student in San Antonio, I was doing a rotation at Santa Rosa Children’s Hospital when I saw crime tape around the outside door leading to the pediatric ICU. That was when Genene Jones was killing babies. And for the most amazing 3rd coincidence, I practiced at the same hospital in Ohio where Dr Husel was. (just got acquitted for murder). I never met any of these characters, thank God, but the coincidences are eerie.
Simon is so incredibly innocent when he believes the rules, structures, and review boards are in place to protect the people and patients AND NOT the people in charge and people committing all the crimes. Simon my friend, the structure is in place to deflect blame, not solve problems.
Also, OJ had several lawyers, 1 being Robert Kardashian, father of Kim and the other Kardashian sisters, but the most famous one you're thinking of is Johnny Cochran, famous for the quote "If the glove don't fit, you MUST Acquit."
IKR, he is adorably naive. I'm jealous actually; I wish I didn't know the things I know now.
This, and hospital culture is notorious for sheltering doctors and squashing any dissention from nurses and staff. Surgeons are basically encouraged to get a god complex.
And the Chewbacca defense.
@@Bluesit32 Ooo, wot's that Precious? Tell us!
Woops, sorry, mixing nerd movies, I am.
@@audreymuzingo933 It's a South Park joke. During the middle of a trial, he'd pull out a picture of Chewbacca and talk how he lived on Endor with tiny Ewoks (this was before Wookies had a home planet in the canon, I think) and how it didn't make sense. And because that didn't make sense, his client was not guilty.
I cannot stop picturing the good Dr. Mike every time you say Dr. Mike.
And it's so juxtaposing bc the good Dr. Mike is just so wholesome and amazing and a total sweetheart, and this is a video about viscous needless murder.
I was hoping he would use video pics of dr mike scattered throughout this because it would be so funny.
AWESOME! Liking before I even watch it... Requested for this to be covered. THANK YOU! 🇿🇼 🇿🇼
Back in the 1980s and 1990s hospitals kept stock drugs of frequently used drugs on every nursing unit. Nurses mixed every IV bag that needed potassium added or other additives. No counts were kept of these stock drugs although they were in a locked room or cupboard. Dr death could easily grab potassium by the vials and fill his pockets. Pharmacy began to manage all this stuff in the late 90s and took over mixing all in bags due to fatal errors. Back then only narcotics were carefully controlled and counted each shift.
So if you ever do a “Don’t Write Down Your Crimes” shirt, have it written on a blackboard while it is being pointed at by a stereotypical bank robber in a professor cap.
The fact it's not on a shirt already is a crime itself
That’s a baller ass idea 💡
...and have it sponsored by Rotting Turtle, so you can have the logo for that in there as well.... for that little bit of "meta".. 😁
1) Working alone works best.
2) Dispose of evidence carefully.
3) Don't write down your crimes.
4) Don't be a psycho.
@@momcat2223 The problem with that last point is you have to be a psycho to commit crimes. Or at least on the scale of crimes that usually gets covered here.
38:44 I live in Namibia and I got a chill down my spine…… We still really do need doctors and in general better medical care but hearing that some sicko came down here to hide and most probably kill is horrific
Ooh, 50 mins, we are being spoiled by Simon today. Immediate like 👌
Samesies
Simon, would you consider covering the murderous couple who own the Osterich inn located in Colnbrook, Berkshire? This was back a few 100 years (the pub was built in the 1200’s) and they used to do terrible things to those who would rent a room for the night. The inn is still operating today and they do a lovely Christmas dinner :)
“Horrific crimes happened here, nobody was safe”
“Yeah, but there food is good :)”
That juxtaposition killed me
I just have to say, as someone who has worked in healthcare for over a decade, I *hate* when actors pretending to be medical professionals do so by squirting out half of whatever is in their syringe!!
It's a huge pet peeve of mine.
Really, what a waste of drugs!!
Getting the air out - yes
spreading half the content across the room - no
Similarly, there's thatsnothowyoupipette tumblr for people who are irritated by actor scientists doing nonsese pipette activities. lol.
Still, it's just a show. It's meant to look good, not be realistic....most of the time.
If you don't do that " squirting" you risk to inject bubbles of air into the veins causing embolism. Good you somehow managed not to kill anyone in you career. Textbok proceduure to make sure there is no air in the siringe.
@@RejectedInch they didn't say not to get the air out, they said that you shouldn't squirt out half the syringe. you don't need to be rude and condescending about it, im sure they're doing just fine.
I can absolutely see how he got away with his crimes for so long. He volunteered for positions that most people turn down out of hand. He had a macabre sense of humour in a group where it’s not unusual.
Jen is a legend, there's a satisfying amount of power rangers in this episode!
My mom is Zimbabwean so hearing you trying to pronounce their names was hilarious! (ps. i was listening to this on spotify but i had to come here to tell you the pronunciations are funny lol)
This is my favorite of Simon’s channels. It’s a perfect blend of script and his own commentary. Love the long tangential intros too.
Thanks Simon! A mate of mine and his family lived in Zimbabwe and knew the landlord well. He told me about double-o-swango and lent me a book on him around 2004.
Simon! Merch idea: a notebook with the words "Not Crimes I've Commited" printed on the front.
And pants that says "That's not mine!"
@@speurtighearnamacterik8230 or "not" my confession
Crimes yet to do?
PLEASE
Or "Crimes I've committed.....Allegedly"
I think my favorite thing about this channel is the cold reading. It definitely helps counterbalance the heaviness of the majority of the stories.
I wouldn't define it as cold, pretty much the opposite, Simon gets especially heated, like in this one.
Watching him react to the script is really a winning concept.
He and shipman are a different kind of 'Doctors Without Borders'
Very witty - thank you:)
Groan....
So good
A bit scary that he also worked in my country.
“A poison donut making kit” 😂 you guys are the best lol
You should do a video on Texas 7. They were 7 people who escaped maximum security prison and then went on a massive crime spree across Texas.
Okay, just from the description that sounds like it's begging to be a movie. I'd like to hear him talk about this one.
I love this show from top to bottom. Callum writes strong, well-researched, sometimes cheeky scripts; Jen adds the most brilliant images/clips, sound, and other bells/whistles that make the entire affair an experience; and Simon is just absolutely hilarious!! I love the asides and ramblings, as do all of us (or we wouldn't tune in). The humor is witty, cheeky, and always spot-on. Crime, especially murder, is a very serious subject, especially for those affected by said crimes/murders. Yet you manage to lighten it up by, dare I say it, voicing what we're all thinking but often too embarrassed to vocalize ourselves. I thank you for the work all three of you do, for both informing and entertaining (wow, that got dark fast) us. Much love :)
The Nurses did do something, they reported him and the hospital told them to STFU
Nurses: "Hey, we're pretty sure that that new doctor-- you know the guy, that weirdo with all the patients dying on his watch? Well, we're pretty sure that he's not *only* completely incompetent and doesn't know how to do even first-year stuff properly, but we also believe that the reason so many patients have unexpectedly died on his watch is that he's deliberately killing them."
Hospital Administrators: ...
Nurses: "Like, his patients that suddenly and unexpectedly got really sick and almost died all say that *he injected stuff into them right before they got sick.* Hell, we *caught* him standing over one of them with a syringe ad a creepy grin right before she started vomiting!"
Hospital Administrators: "...Do you mean that *doctor?* That *male* doctor?"
Nurses: "Shit..."
Hospital Administrators: "That *white, male, doctor* ? You *women* think that a *doctor* is killing our patients, just because they keep dying on his watch and our mortality rate has sharply risen since he joined us? *How dare you.* "
Nurses: "Look, if you don't do anything we're calling the police! He's killing people! He's a murderer!!"
Hospital Administrators: "You will do *no* such thing; and if I hear even a whisper that the police are harassing him, not only will every single one of you be fired, you will *never* work in this field again."
Nurses: "...he's even poisoned some of us. And the EMTs."
Hospital Administrators: "God, would you women just stop gossiping?!"
--Like, I know Simon and Callum never specifically stated it, but it's the Eighties and Nineties. Most of the doctors are going to be men. All of the administrators are going to be men. And the nurses are pretty much all going to be women. There's absolutely *no way* he wouldn't have been stopped a lot sooner and had the *book* thrown at him if he hadn't been white, and a guy.
And the circumstantial evidence (let alone the eyewitness testimony of surviving victims) would have *easily* been enough.
Maybe if a male doctor had gone with them, the nurses would have been listened to. :/
@@KryssLaBryn you’re inflating the importance of race and gender here. While that might play a small role, hospital administrators care about throughput, operating margin, lawsuits, and career options. Nurses might care about actual patient mortality, but admins see lawsuits, bad pr, fundraising problems, and job loss.
@@strategic1710 Exactly. Look up Dr Johnny Delashaw. He was hired by a hospital in Seattle and took over their neurosurgery program, and turned it into a chop shop where he would schedule 4 surgeries at once, which were being performed by residents without the required supervision. Patient aftercare suffered as well due to the massive volume, and at least one patient died needlessly. Anyone who spoke out was bullied into silence. My last interaction with him before I left the company was him trying to bully me into billing a spine surgery that he admitted he was not even at the hospital for, and changing his operative report to say he was there, which is just fraud. He was finally fired, and maybe lost his license (I can't remember for sure). Then it came out that he'd been doing the same stuff in California. But the hospital didn't care because he was bringing in so much money.
@@strategic1710 we see them harming patients, and follow our legal obligation to report. Admin looks at how much money they bring in and does nothing. Working in a rural hospital with traveling docs one step ahead of the DEA, they would fire a nurse in a heart beat to protect a surgeon, especially if it was a high dollar specialist. Seen it happen. Saw the same surgeon finally get “put on leave” and his contract not renewed because he was too impaired to stand up for more than a hot minute and was trying to get a stool to perform surgery. The nurse who called security and the admin rep was fired quietly two weeks later for not being a “team player.” She sued, but nursing’s a small world. She never worked in an OR again.
@@bwktlcn I don’t doubt any of that. Most people think their value lies in the importance of their job, but it doesn’t. It lies in how replaceable you are relative to revenue you generate relative to what you cost. There are tons of specifics under these umbrellas, but the importance of your job is not one of them, otherwise janitors would make 6 figures.
I'm a fan, Simon. I enjoy your dry humour and your ability to sight-read so fluently and beautifully.
Simon. We love it when you "unprofessionally" give us a peek behind the curtain.
It’s great
*peek, but yes, I agree.
@@MaryAnnNytowl oh crap. I didn't see that. Thanks
I always love how Simon says: "what are you doing? Stop it." Like a concerned parent.
Okay. Let's talk about this.
I've known about Swango for years. The reason that he got away with this for so long is the fact that in the 80's & 90's the states did Not communicate with each other about medical professionals. I lived at the edge of 2 states (MO & KS) at one point and at the edge of 4 states (MO, KS, OK, & AR) at another point in my nursing career. I tended to have multiple nursing licenses because that's what you had to have back then. If I had been stripped of my license in one state, I could always practice in one of the others. Just FYI: I never had to do this & I was on the lookout for those that did so I could report them. The monitoring on doctors was even worse. Also, nurses & doctors could become paramedics with ease-as Swango did. The shortage of medical personnel did the rest. I had a CNA that was a Tweaker (crystal meth) & I got her fired from a facility that I was working at but they rehired her as soon as I left.
You might also want to check Genene Jones. She was an Angel of Death. She was on staff at 2 different hospitals & then a nurse at a doctor's office where they caught her after she killed at least one patient. It was easier to catch her there since there weren't many folks that could have poisoned the patients. The doctor that hired her had absolutely no idea that she was a killer & that doctor's practice suffered horrible consequences.
The shortage is even worse now since the pandemic killed many nurses & doctors and also scared many off. I trained for the next pandemic for decades but now I'm disabled & can't work. This is something that also happens to many nurses, CNAs (Certified Nurse Assistant), paramedics, etc.
Let's not forget the most recent Dr. Death from Texas, Christopher Duntsch. I find his case fascinating and I sorta understood much of what happened through osmosis from my mom (RN and my rock, don't know what I'd do without her), what Duntsch did to those people was horrendous and I still don't understand why people in the OR didn't do more to stop him.
I'd like to hear Simon's thoughts and commentary on Duntsch if he ever does an episode about him.
Yes, Simon, there really was a time before the internet. You are a very young, but extremely talented man. Even though we had computers in the late 80's -early 90's, they were nothing like today's computers. Entire offices were not networked. DNA was a just a glint in scientists eye. Crime went undetected and unsolved. Great Video Episode! Subscribed and notified.😎
Nah, we had DNA down pretty well by the 90s. The networking thing is true enough though. Early 90s, we were paying by the hour for our dial up internet and hoping we didn't miss any calls during it.
You should cover the story of Gloria Ramirez, aka "The Toxic Lady," who was checked into a hospital and handling her body and blood made her doctors and nurses ill for an (at the time) unknown reason. It's a really interesting story, and I haven't seen many people cover it! That might be because it isn't really a 'criminal' thing, but even if you covered it on a different channel, it would be neat.
I saw Buzzfeed cover it. I don’t know it’d fit for Casual Criminalist because there’s not really any crime, but maybe on Biographics?
I thought they called her Typhoid Mary.
@@Bluesit32 that’s a different lady
Maybe a "Decoding the Unknown" episode?
@@KnightOwl1881 It is a very interesting case. Maybe they have found more of an explanation of what happened with her.
Dude I love any of your videos. It's the way you conduct your self your vids. Passion right there. Well done keep it up. So darn Professional and yet so darn for the people. Amazed
Looking forward to the “no crimes are written in this notebook” notebook merch
Yes that would be an awesome and clever nod. Or "Caution: Not for writing your crimes in"
No crimes are written here notebook is an amazing idea millions sold would be a surprise... For the real numbers probably reaching billions to the power of 10 make it and it will sell
I love the way you do these blind your not knowing the outcome as your reading is a great and entertaining angle
"Moved him to another wing..."
Must have been a Catholic Hospital.
THANK YOU!
You shall not speak badly about OUR good doctor. Yep, catholic...
Doctors protect docters.
angel of death title would def check out
@@mariarandolph8402 they sure do!!!
I mean, it was in Zimbabwean. I’m just glad the nurses weren’t arrested for questioning the status quo.
The amount of times he narrowly avoided being stopped is extremely frustrating
A suggestion: The story of Danish inventor-tinkerer Peter Madsen. I won't give any spoilers here, but I believe Callum would be able to dredge up enough evidence for a short episode.
It's hard to make up clickbait any better than "The insane submariner who dismembered his murder victims at the bottom of the ocean."
At least the Danish system convicted him.
@@raycearcher5794 "and then escaped from prison only to be arrested a few hours later"
@@miningape Shouldn't have scuttled his getaway vehicle.
@@raycearcher5794 , so that's him, that's what I vaguely remembered. Gruesome stuff, and such a talented young woman lost to this horrible madness...
I am so loving the way you started these episodes in comparison to how you start them in the newer ones. You're growing in your confidence and in your ability to enjoy yourself a bit more. I love your shows and watching you grow. It's wild, and thank you for sharing all your wonderful content with us Simon. Jen, Callum, and your other writers are amazing. I couldn't imagine that I'd find content as good as yours on TH-cam! Thank you so much!
In support of the "Specialists suck at other medicine" argument, an Orthopedist was doing back surgery on a woman's spine. He saw a tumor and decided to remove it while he was in there. That tumor turned out to just be her kidney. He removed a woman's kidney while operating on her back because he thought it was a tumor.
LOL that's hilarious.
OMG
I'm not sure if I believe that. Orthopaedic surgeons have to go to med school too (so I'm told). And anyone who's ever been to med school knows, pretty much the first third is rote learning, and most of that is A&P. You even get real life corpses to probe! So if you don't know what a kidney looks like and approximately where in the body you might find one, you probably aren't going to be doing surgery, because you probably failed med school. Of course, I've heard all sorts of hilarious jokes about ortho guys, but not generally involving kidneys. So you never know.
@@felixjones9198 The patient's name was Maureen Pacheco, she sued three surgeons over it and won. It was published on numerous news sources. The Associated Press, Fox News, USA Today, and a metric crap load of local news sources. At least one of the surgeons who was named in the suit was fined by the medical board. I assure you, it happened.
@@neonclear8500 wow, I'd never heard of that, I imagine the AMA surpressed it as best they could. I'm not surprised she won in that case. We had a case in the UK when I was a resident where a surgeon amputated the wrong leg from a patient. I'm not claiming to be infallible by any means, I've probably killed the same as any average doc has (not sure of the statistics but I'd guess 2-3 over a career, it's not something we like to dwell on). But I've never mistaken a kidney for a tumour and never accidentally cut off the wrong part. That kind of thing is pretty unforgivable IMHO.
The Adams County passage at 28:43 refers to Swango’s arrest and prosecution in the summer of 84’ for the crime of poisoning fellow EMT’s. In the otherwise sleepy riverside town of Quincy Illinois this was a pretty shocking story. As I recall, the prosecution made a fairly weak case - though he was convicted. It was many years later that I read the accounts of his notorious career as a globetrotting serial killer. Evil is real.
I'm totally here for a magnetic to-do list with the header of "crimes". I need it for grocery shopping. 😊
Make it a set. "Crimes," "People to Kill," etc. As a set, would make a nice gift for that "special someone."
@@paulherman5822 yes! Brilliant 😄
Another very interesting episode! Thanks to all who help produce this channel!
Possible recommend: it would be interesting to hear an episode on John Jamelske - the boogeyman/dungeon master of Syracuse NY.
Lesson from this episode: Listen to nurses.
Always listen to nurses!!
They know what's up.
Why do I get the feeling that the next episode will be on a killer nurse
@@Dlúith there are a number of those.
@@Dlúith 😂
I love the way you narrate the stories, every episodes awesome❤❤❤❤❤😅🤪
Can you do one about Locusta, history’s first Serial Killer. (And arguably the most deadly if the estimates of a couple hundred - 1,000+ is to be believed)
@Lassi Kinnunen 81 she only killed a few people for the state, she ran a school of sorts where she tested her poisons out on innocent people, which wasn’t sanctioned by the state since she had been arrested for it twice in her life only getting out due to her connections.
@Lassi Kinnunen 81 I mean. I could work for the president and still be a killer so long as he didn't sanction/approve of me killing right. Locusta used her position to kill in general. She got away with it because the rich wanted her services and so she could kill without any opposition.
I mean if 99% of someone's murders are not sanctioned compared to the few that were, I think that's a more than fair ratio to be called a Serial Killer. But I will concede she wasn't your typical serial killer either.
how about Thug Behram ? allegedly 900+ kills. from india.
@@PhuckedUpPhilosophy With ancient figures it is hard to nail down. I’ve seen estimates that put Locusta in the thousands in terms of poison victims. But even if we just said a flat 900+ vs 1000+ it’s likely though not guaranteed that she has a higher kill count
Liu Pengli, the Chinese prince, would be a good subject for an episode too.
Hell Yes I remember that guy! I volunteered at OSU hospital when I was in high school and it was when he was there. Creepy. Another great episode guys. 👍🏻
He killed my grandfather at the Northport VA in ny
@@fumblingthroughmy40s16 Oh my gosh. I’m very sorry for your loss. 🙏🏻
Who’s going to tell Simon that OJ’s defense attorney was Kim Kardashian’s father?
Well one of the attorneys.
Guess it's up to you haha
Please God. Who cares about the Kardashians? The most interesting thing about them is the fathers connection to the OJ case.
@@jesmondsaunders7746 exactly, it’s the ONLY thing I know about them other than their names 🤣
So the fact Simon didn’t throw out the name Kardashian amused me.
100% would not be surprised if Simon called them Cardassians instead. 😂
In the US up until the 1920's it was still not uncommon that doctors compounded and dispensed their own drugs. Do to many occasions where there were problems with some of the 'recipes' used, or mistakes in strengths and so on, some of which may not necessarily have been completely accidental but more likely "accidents on purpose" this did give rise to the advent if drug stores and pharmacies for dispensing drugs by prescription drugs a doctor ordered. Many were still compounded from recipes doctors wrote for pharmacists and over time it did finally allow a pharmacist to double check ingredients and amounts and not prepare drugs that could kill people. Eventually most drug stores and pharmacists would need special licenses to compounded medications and most sold only drugs that were prepared in set strengths and packaged by pharmaceutical companies to yet afford more checks and balances and make things safer. Even then there were cases where doctors ordered strengths to great for the size of the patient or were written so they were gard to read leaning to more laws requiring medications to require at least 2 people hand any medication dispensed or prepared to hand even more checks and balances.
I am left wondering....If his mother encouraged him to keep binders of murders, etc.....What about her? As an old, retired, tired, wore out, and broken down homicide investigator I'm left to wonder.....How many people did she kill?
Interesting comment
I stumbled on this channel from his biographics channel, finished watching all those and needed a new channel to listen to while doing my route at work. It's been three months roughly since I started listening. Love the channel, even if my mental state may be shattered by this binge. Well 35 more episodes to go
Simon,
Please do a piece on the Carr brothers. They committed a 5 person homicide in the state of Kansas after being released from prison by mistake.
To say, "I hope you enjoyed..." is just fine. Even the darkest stories, it's the telling of them, your interjections, that make it all enjoyable. -OGLegend from Cleveland.
I always have an hesitation to put a "like" on such horrendous stories...
But then, the podcast retelling is so good..
Quite the dilemma.
Please invite Callum as a guest host for one of your episodes Simon
I'd totally love this! But I think they live worlds apart :(
I think Callum lives over in Japan and Simon lives in the Czech Republic?? when covid clears up more maybe they’ll be down?
Uh, were on the internet lads.... who cares where they live.
So love this channel. Callum's script, Simon's commentary and music and visuals all add up to a great way of making dark subject matter rather entertaining
Pharmacist would absolutely check the dosage before sending to the floor. Nurses check and cross check multiple factors before administration, including; dosage, route, time, name, dob, last administered dose and other factors.
But, still, it's not 100% perfect. I remember reading something about a case where, due to a whole bunch of things going wrong, a patient got a very wrong dose of their medication and nearly died. Can't find it at the moment, but one of the things that went wrong was alert fatigue, but of course that wasn't the only thing that didn't help. Obviously things are much better since people are more aware of this issue, but that doesn't mean things don't go wrong sometimes.
The 5 medication rights
"Dr Mike get out of the maternity ward, you psycho!" 🤣 🤣 🤣
You should just slowly add each killer in that hell painting over time, that would be funny
Funny only in the sense that that is where they all belong in my opinion at least
The One on High and The One Down Low absolutely despise oath breakers the suffering they receive is greater then anything that other sinners receive
A Dr.Death 3 could be the case of Christopher Duntsch. He was a neurosurgeon in Dallas who don't have the biggest of sprees, but he certainly make up the lack of high numbers in horror and cruelty.
You mentioned Ed Gein in passing and i honestly would love to see Callum rack his brains on how to slip a little humor into that reign of terror
he’d probably joke about the nipple belt
and John Wayne Gacy.
I wouldn't really call what Gein did a reign of terror. He killed three people, at most...and a huge lapse of time between the first and the second. No, it was more a horror show for the investigating police.
Simon has already done a video on Ed Gein over on his biographics channel
@@Bluesit32 No, Gein wasn't a reign of terror kind of guy, but he killed way more than three people. It just couldn't be proven.
In the 80's and 90's, a lot of hospitals didn't have the kinds of check and balances on medication and surgeries like they do today. Also, nursing staff often wasn't given any creditability by doctors and administrators. It was an insult to the doctors, especially the male doctors over female nurses.
As to the 'MD', anyone in the US with a PhD can be called as a 'Doctor', so MD is a way to distinguish them for other non-medical doctors. Also, beside 'MD', some medical doctors are also labeled as 'OD' (Doctor of Osteopathic medicine; DC for doctor of chiropractic; DVM for doctor of veterinary medicine; OB/GYN for Obstetrics and Genecology; etc.
The blackout ripper: had a killing spree during the Blitz, killed 4 people and attempted to murder two others. He was an RAF officer named Gordon Cummins
Not me.
Ahh the blitz, keep calm and carry on, or murder and use as cover.
Jesus...talk about an opportunist. Waits for the Nazis to start bombing the hell out of England before killing. In terms of a cover, you really don't get much better.
0:06 “Dr Death Part 2. No, Harold Shipman did not come back to life, get released from prison and kill more people - you’d have heard about that; he died in prison, fortunately.”
Idea for Casual Criminalist merch: A journal where at the top of every page is "Don't write down your crimes"
That'd easily be my favourite notebook
I am hesitant to suggest the Jamie Bulger case as it is one of those cases, that just causes absolute heartbreak. But at the same time it would be to see Callum's take on it. Tough seeing as it was solved pretty quickly it is more appropriate for a short. IT is absolutely up to you guys.
I really enjoy the show.
I love how Simon's like 'why is this so long?! Why didn't they stop him'
Is he talking about his ADHD tangents....???
Saw the title, thought at first this was going to be about Dr Christopher Duntsch. Then thought, Simon, you should *absolutely* do an episode about him.
Michael Swango strongly resembles - down to the creepy, soulless eyes - John Smith, the guy who killed two wives when they threatened to leave him, famously constructing a wood box in which to store the remains of the first one. The body of the second has never been found, presumably because he learned from his mistakes from the first murder.
And I can't help but think that the nurses' warnings were dismissed because hospital admin thought they were being typical hysterical women.
That’s exactly what happened, I lived in Africa for a while and this attitude is all over
It didn't help that apparently Mikey was REALLY good at looking pathetic and victimized.
That intersection of women's words against a man's and nurses against a doctor basically means those nurses never stood a chance at actually stopping him.
@@Bluesit32 As well as the racism and classism implied in rural African people not knowing if they are getting killed and being too dumb and backward to understand if they are getting well from the Drs treatment or not.
Oh yes there were several nurses in u.s. and in africa who reported him. I read a book about swango and it detailed how the nurses were basically not believed, and the doctors were. One doctor at ohio state basically said of the nurses "what do they know lol".
I’d give you 5/5 stars if I wasn’t on TH-cam. This is humanising for the victims and you say what we all think.
TAKES ALOT FOR A NURSE TO REPORT A DOCTOR AS THEY WILL LOSE THEIR JOB WITHOUT PROOF.
WHY ARE YOU YELLING?!?!
It’s always easy for those with nothing to lose to judge those who do.
@@kraanz Some use caps because of bad eyesight. Big block letters are easier to see =)
@@redqueeen2950 Bullshit. I have bad eyesight, too.
@@kraanz So do I? But I don't pretend everyone see the same way I do? There are different kind of way to have bad eyesight. And also its based on what the person is using to view the screen.. If its a small phone, or a large TV screen... It makes a difference. Not sure why you are being so rude about it. The world doesnt evolve around you
There's a really creepy set of murders in the USA, in Kansas. The guy had storage rented for the barrels, and a farm in a rural area, also with barrels, with bodies stored in them - the farm is only about 20 miles from my house, so I really took notice of the story! His name was John Edwards Robinson, Sr. He was an internet victim hunter, a bondage person... called himself a "slave master," and it's definitely a really creepy story!
Oh, and I definitely agree with the merch suggestion for a notebook with "not my crimes" or something similar emblazoned on the front of it!
Suggestion: Winny Ruth Judd, The Trunk Murderess
Simon, you are “allegedly” a LEGEND!
He’s my grandpa’s cousin...My family will definitely watch/listen to this.
Damn. 😐
At 21:00 of the video is the reason that that casual criminality is not just really good but super great . Thank you Jenn you are a Master🙏💯
43:37 Simon misinterpreting Norwegian prison again. After a maximum of 21 years, you have to be re-evaluated. This is where they decide if you've served enough, or need more prison. Anders Breivik is definitely not going to pass and will be sent right back to prison for another 5 years, and they'll probably keep doing it until he dies.
"...because they were so short of doctors." And therein lies the answer to Simon's repeated query "Why hasn't he been caught/stopped already??" That, and the fact that doctors don't like to criticize each other.
OSU caught a ton of crap over this--rightly so! I worked at OSU Med Center when the last trial was going on and everybody had a real "Oh, we don't talk about him," attitude. But abnormally, no one actually talked about him behind their hands either. NO ONE would talk about it, publicly or privately. It was a real shame of the medical community, the public saying that OSU was responsible for all victims afterward (with some justification).
Swango is serving 3 consecutive life sentences without parole. Being prosecuted on 4 victims, it is believed he is responsible for up to 60 victims.
Sleep well, children.
Suggestions: Not sure if this too gruesome but any of the Soviet era serial killers would be cool. Maybe even a series that features some of the best well known.
Metal teeth killer(cannibal)
And the Chess Killer who had planned to outdo those Soviet Serial Killers. Forget his name but he had a huge plan that just...did not go how he wanted.
I feel that if anything Simon is displaying an appropriate level of shock… This is absolutely insane.
I think notebooks which say “don’t write down your crimes” would be badass
An entire line of stationary because imagine going to the grocery with a shopping list…
@@katwitanruna that would be ICONIC
@@RubyBlueUwU Can you Imagine picking up stuff at Home Despot and marking off rope, big black trash bags, etcetera on your nifty “don’t write…” list and suddenly… VERY LOUDLY go oh my gosh! I forgot to put down liners! What am I going to line the floors with?!
I follow so many of your channels but I love the side of you we get with The Casual Criminalist, your reactions to what you're reading to us are brilliant
Have you done the one from Australia - The Snowtown Murders? That one is pretty messed up.
With the barrels?
I’ve never seen Simon so flustered over a story.
Ross Ulbricht, the "Dread Pirate Roberts" of the Internet . Founder of the Silk road
Watch Count Dankula’s video on him. He runs a series on TH-cam called Absolute Mad Lads haha
Thank you so much for this show!!!
I love it 🤓
Yes, Simon, you should make merch that says Don't write down your crimes, as well as the prior mentioned notepad that says CRIMES on the cover.
Agreed especially on the notepad
A gift set for that "special someone."
The notebook needs a companion "don't write down your crimes" pen.
@@splendidpursuits Pen needs to be in a blood red ink.
Or "My Crimes... Allegedly"
I love this format, with Simon reading a script as we’re hearing it.