You hit the nail on the head. Outsole is not talked about enough in the running shoe industry. It plays a major role in a runners confidence in a shoe and connectedness to the ground or not.
I found the same thing with the Adidas Adios 8 over the Streakfly. The giant rubber patch on the Adios 8 made ther shoe so much more useable and versatile… not to mention how much harder I could “dig” into the ground on toe off. It hit me in preparing this video that the VF1/2 did the same thing. It’s something I never really understood about them prior. It’s a big difference though. For the record I prefer the VF3 outsole, for half and full racing… but anything else the VF1/2 is far better.
I must admit, I prefer the aggressiveness of the 1 & 2 to the 3... when I got the 3 my order was 1 / 3 / 2.. because I felt the foam was nerfed in 2 and it was nice to have the softness back in the 3... but the more I used the 3 the more I found it felt the propulsion wasnt as strong as 1 & 2... so i'd now go 1 / 2 / 3... 3 is a much more universally friendly shoe!
Ya, I remember your videos on it. They stood out to me at the time. In my testing for this video I didn’t notice any difference in the foam between the 1 & 2, but I did notice a huge difference to the 3, that surprised me. The VF1 has the best fit, by far, it’s up there with Asics metaspeed uppers, if not better (I’d love to see Vaporweave back in road race shoes). The VF3 is the most accommodating by far. The VF2 is the least enjoyable to run in due to the upper.
We did see a Streakfly 2 proto with a vaporweave upper early on. So it’s still in rotation and consideration at Nike HQ. I was happy to see it on the Ultradly but it’s a horrible trail upper. I think we could get Tim Grose to sign our petition as well.
@@SagasuRunning ha ha I would but it seems that uppers that are voluminous for racing shoes seem to be what shoe companies think most runners want and need. Maybe because so many don't buy race shoes to exclusively race in these days?
Dear sir, I've just started running for a few months, so far from an expert, but I find I really enjoy listening to your analyzes of shoes. I even bought the adidas boston 12 based on your videos. keep it up! greetings from Europe
Enjoy the B12. It’s a great shoe. I was thinking to break mine out again just to remember that (though I have no need to run in them at the moment). Hopefully my content continues to be valuable for you. Thank you for the kind words! 🤙🏻
@@flick7402 Bay Area California. Typically you'll see a Nike Factory Store at like an outlet shopping mall, which we do have as well. But there is a specific one called a Nike Clearance Store in San Leandro which is like a superstore and has an unbelievable selection. I think all online returns go to these stores. I got invincible 3s for $80 and all Pegasus' 37-40 are $40-50
I finally secured a pair of VF2 (used for about 300 km and at an exceptionally low price) My first Vaporfly and they are outstanding. The bounce and propulsion are amazing. They feel so fast. I used them today for some intervals with jogging in between. They are actually ok for jogging. I´ve read many reviews that they are not meant for slow runs at all but they were ok. Looking forward to many more runs
I assume you know this... 300km is ALOT of wear for a pair of VF2s. Even if their condition looks decent, the plate a foam are worn. The shoe is still fine to run in, as you mentioned, but you are getting a much softer and less propulsive experience overall. Actually a pair of VFs with 300k is a great training option. I know they are your first pair and will feel amazing, but know that a fresh pair will be even more propulsive...
I think that Asics are onto something with the Sky and Edge options in the Metaspeed. I think next level is versions of a model defined by speed, for example, 3 versions being sub 3 min k's, sub 3:40 min k's and sub 4:30 min k's (plus)
Asics stride vs cadence runner thing is bio mechanically interesting but marketing-wise it’s a total nightmare. Asics has also marketed shoes dor certain speeds already. The S4 is for “sub 4 hour” marathoners. I still think feel (bouncy or propulsive) is the way to differentiate. Unless you are designing a shoe that is stripped down for short road running, Like the NB SC Pacer or Adidas Takumi Sen, any shoe can be raced any distance… even both of those shoes can be raced at the half or full for some runners. Feel is better… for shorter distances with high speeds I want something more propulsive while at longer distances I want something more bouncy…. That’s a WAY easier marketing story to tell. Hmmm, this may need to become a video… 🤔
I like a good deal. After missing all those great discounts on the VF2 last year, and my old pair of VF2 wearing out, I ended up buying a lightly used VF1 from a friend to run in Boston. Had no fit issues in training but in Boston I had such bad toe pain from the tight fit that I honestly was scared one toe was broken. Nope, just a crazy aggressive fit! Will be using the VF1 for half marathon and under from now on!
Ya. The toebox in the VF1 was VERY low and the vaporweave upper was very tight. It’s abnormal racing fit though that you can put up with for a race. Training in the VF1, compared to the VF2 or especially VF3 was another story though….
You NAILED it. I have both but prefer the V2 for 5k and the v3 for longer HM/M efforts. Could never really discern why the v2s felt more “aggressive” but this was spot on
4%, V2 and V3 owner here. V2 and V3 still in rotation. Agree on the larger more forgiving sweet spot for the V3, and somehow after the first marathon, I am beginning to feel the arch rubbing on the bottom of my foot. Both shoes are finicky to tighten perfectly, I do sometime wish for a V2 chassis with a V3 toebox. Still saving the V3 for racing a couple of halfs. Oh, the V3 is better made than the V2, many cases of the V2 breaking apart on the medial side upper and midsole
The V3 toebox is the best. I agree there. Also, they did fix that upper/midsole delamination issue in the forefoot in the V3 as well. That was much needed!
I guess i’m not the only one who’s experiencing the said issue. Looks like I’ll have to live with the imperfection (the said issue) that comes with the V2 haha
This reminds me of the tennis racquet changes. Aggressive top level pros used to use much smaller head sizes with tiny sweet spots, like the wilson pro staff and head prestige, with grindy baseliners using bigger head sizes. This was a problem to the point where companies used to put new model paint jobs on older pro specific models. Nowadays the younger gen have all grown up with the babolats and the minimum 98sq in head sizes and even federer switched his from the 90 sq in to the much larger and forgiving 98. Like the alphafly 3s which apparently have a larger sweet spot, i think as younger runners come up we will see them generally prefering the more forgiving yet still equally propulsive shoes like the alphafly 3s
The VF1 is the icon… now that was a gorgeous shoe. I especially love the Mango colorway of the pair I have in this video. It’s on par with the Evo 1 in my book.
so true. its lamentable that they took what i think is the coolest silhoutte of the modern era in the Next%1, and then they just made it uglier with each iteration
Vf1 looks the best imo, I have the blue ribbon edition + the ediken one + the valerian blue .. for vf3 I went with the eliud kipchoge edition .. vf2 looks the worst imo except the siren red colorway
@jean-phil I agree the VF1 is the best looking for the bunch. I prefer the Mango colorway video. Then the VF3, which has grown on me… both the black/gold colorway and the white/silver colorway (though the EK one was beautiful). The VF2 is the clunkiest of the three but the Proto VF2 (which thumbnail) and the Ekiden ‘22 colorway in this video are the best looking IMO.
Just did a workout in my Vaporfly 3's after watching your video. The upper is too roomy in the toebox. Plus, the ride is softer. Not a bad thing - but it just doesn't have the spring of the original vaporfly or the vaporfly 2. The meta speed edge has more pop for me and is now my go to racing shoe.
I’ve been spending more time in the MSEP the past few weeks and find myself reaching for it for longer fast running, really over anything else I own. The firmness of the platform with the roll from the plate seems to me working well for me… even over the VF3. I think my mechanics and tastes are evolving again.
I’ve tried every Max racing shoe over the last two years and absolutely love the vapor fly 3. I’m no elite runner by any stretch but when I wear those shoes, I feel like I’m flying!
the energy return of the v2 send me to the moon, the 3 has no bounce only softness, very gentle to my leg muscles，and the one thing that you missed is the difference in the rockers, v2 rocker is more towards the toes, the v3 rocker is under the mid foot which makes it feel very weird at the landing and push off
I agree with you both, VF1 feels more propulsive, VF3 feels very soft. If I had to pick 1 for marathon, it would probably be VF3, for comfort. For 5k and shorter, VF1.
I am debating to cover the Peg Trail 5, I was going to go see if I can find a pair tomorrow as I’m curious. It’s unlikely I’m cover the Zegama 2. I just don’t have the terrain here in Taiwan where I need it or could really test it well.
Great video. The VF2's are 2 years old but as you know, the platform (midsole, outsole, plate etc) is 4 years old! And it's still a competitive shoe. Speaks a lot to how far ahead of the game Nike were when the VF1 was released.
In some ways, yes, I agree. However, unlike the Adios Pro 3, which is still a current shoe in Addias’s lineup. Nike would prefer this one to go away. But quality does matter and the VF has always been that.
Great video. A Vaporfly 2 replacement is missing in brands current line up for me, it runs closer to the Takumi Sen 9 in stack feel less the toe rocker, making it the slightly faster choice. Still struggling to select my next race shoe that isn't a big stacked marathon shoe. Runner that prefers firmer, low stacked shoes with more aggressive toe roll.
I’ve been running ALOT in the TS10 lately and found they feel very close to the VF2, though they are definitely less cushioned overall. But toe-off is similar for sure.
@@mikerobinson4589hey Mike, as a non biased runner. It’s been hard to find a replacement. However the cloud echo boom 3 by On are really a good choice that resembles vaprofly fit and feel. Not 100% accurate but is the nearest thing. Price tag may b an issue but they’re not bad at all
@marcusszavaleta someone else mentioned them too. Worth a look, thank you. Limited choice really if you don't want a max stack super shoe. Thanks for the help.
Great analysis! I think your second point is spot on. I have 750 miles on 3 pairs of Vaporfly 2s and 100 miles on the Vaporfly 3. A pair of the 2s with 300 miles feels faster than the 3s, but I think that's just by feel and in reality they probably are similar in effort/pace. The 3s just feel so much softer than the 2s (I have a pair of 2s with fewer miles than the 3s) and I'm finding I prefer the stiffer ride of the 2s.
I have been moving towards firmer super shoes lately and the VF3 feels overly soft to me now. Still comfortable and fast… but very soft. Thank you for the kind words. 🤙🏻
I think you absolutely nailed this video. Good insights. If I were to guess, the new vaporfly that comes out eventually will probably have even more foam in the forefoot compared to the 3 and 2. This will be because the new streakfly will be the 'faster'/ minimalist option. This makes me abit sad, because I love the VF1 and VF2 so much (even though I have my 10km pb in the VF3) and I hoped for a second that it would be more similar to them. The streakfly 2 is basically a Dragonfly for the road, and that is not something people running slower than 31 minutes for a 10km can benefit from in my opinion. The VF4 looks like a solid half-marathon shoe, but too much stack height for a 10km in my opinion. Guess I will have to hunt for more VF2s online :(
Thank you. It does seem Nike is leaning into specialist race shoes again. The VF has been so good because it’s been a generalist that can do anything, especially the VF1/2. Adidas seems to me going to other direction after making the AP3 so marathon specific… the Evo 1, and now the AP4/Evo C seem to be becoming more generalists. It’s interesting how product teams evolve things differently.
I agree , but i also think it is the geometry of the mid . I think the taller/wider and more stable mid spreads the energy throughout a larger area, which causes less compression and agession . But doesn't the new version save the legs more ? I'm just thinking out loud 😅
I think the elites just prefer V2 because it feels much more like a Racing shoe while the V3 seems more of a trainer than anything. Yes it performs when needed to but probably not as fast as V2. Marathoners look for any advantage they can grab and ultimately believe the V2 has more advantages than V3
the reason is simple, the vaporfly 3 is softer that is why is preferred by everyday runners, but it is slower and less responsive. i think when you mention the adidas adios evo 1, you should also include the fact that lots of races and podiums have been achieved by the adios pro 3 and not the evo 1 that cost 2 times more and last 10 times less.
That’s not the point I’m trying to make. I’m not concerned about cost, race shoes should be the bleeding edge of running tech and I appreciate the Evo 1 for what it is, price regardless. Objectively, the AP3 is a very successful shoe. I’ll have a video coming out about it soon… more to say there.
I don't understand why people need so much softness. Even 2's are very soft and compresses too much compared to Asics or Adidas super shoes at end or races. 7 years ago we all ran with shoes much stiffer than any peba super shoe.
It was the VF that set the standard. ZoomX became THE super foam for many years .It is interesting that Adidas is softening its foams as is Asics… but nowhere near where ZoomX is.
Depends on the runner. The VF2 seems to be fastest for elites. The VF1 seems to still be preferred by many. I find the VF3 is still the fastest for me.
It sure looks like it could be a HM monster. It all depends on how much foam is actually in it and how aggressive that toe spring is. It could be tuned for faster leg turn over at high speeds. I can’t wait to find out.
Vaporfly 2 was one of the best shoes every made. From 5k-marathon any caliber of runner can use and have great success. Super shoes have made running fast accessible. Discounted super shoes are better than more brand new full price supers.
I just used super glue, or any type of instant liquid glue like that. Never had an issue after that. Thankfully, one of the things the VF3 and AF3 seem to have solved is this delamination issue.
I feel what’s more surprising is how Adidas was able to create a marathon racer that seems to work for both average runners and elites. The Adios Pro 3. I believe the Pro 3 has more podiums than the Vaporfly 2 and 3, but I’ll probably be corrected on that. The Adios Pro 3 is raved by regulars and elites. Even with the Evo 1, the Pro 3 is still racking up podiums and a favorite for a lot of runners. I have a pair of Pro 3’s and got them because I preferred the feel over the Vaporfly. Just something I thought I’d share.
Agree. The Vaporfly series, all 4 generations, have more podiums than any other shoe. However, the AP3 has more podiums than the VF2 (they are of the same generation, technically). It's also a shoe I've come to really love as well. You may like my next video...stay tuned. 🤙🏻
After 4 marathons in the same pair of vf2, I can say that I'm still hesitant to quit these. I ordered the vf3 but I didnt even try them. I also have the adios pro 3, and they are amazing for speed running, very aggressive roll through the stride, that's why I haven't try them to race into the 42k challenge. I probably race once more in vf2, as I use my them only for racing!
am training for Edinburgh half. am in a quandary over what shoe to use tontry and ensure a pb. did a mixed session in adidas pro 3 vs vaporfly 3. adidas way more cushioned and propulsive, vapor was far more roomy but lighter- didn't know had shoe on. dont know which is faster. wondering if should go back to alphafly 1?
For me it seems Nike puts way more effort in Marketing in the Alphafly ... and I wonder why. Maybe high plate configurations are more popular to the most? Or because they know they know about the "problems" about the Vaporfly lineup. More interesstingly is: as someone who is highly interested into the chinese brands, their super shoes are a lot of copy pastes of the older Vapor and Alphaflys...Just a little more fleshed out and usually more durable.
I think it’s the later. You’ll see a big push in the VF4 next year. Luckily, the AF3 seems to be a good shoe. I honestly think the low plat configuration is still more popular overall, though it’s close right now. I only vaguely follow Chinese brands, enough to have a sense of what they are doing but not enough to pick out the subtle details.
I did not get on with Vaporfly 2. I thought it was firmer midsole than the Goat v1. Upper was not as good as Vaporweave too. And only lasted me around 177km (all used mainly on dry roads) until I returned it to Nike as the outsole was completely shredded and can see the carbon plate in the forefoot where I land. Loving the Vaporfly 3 (2 pairs) on the other hand, 140km and counting. Vaporfly 1/3/2 in order for me. Here's me hoping Vaporfly 4 has the same status of the v1 or even better.
I’d can definitely agree on 1/3/2…. But am a 3/1/2. I love all three though. So many distinct memories in each one. I tested the VF1 and VF2 for this video and didn’t notice any difference in feel in the midsole foam. The upper was the big change. I do think the rubber on the VF1 is slightly softer too, it was less slappy.
Closer to VF2, it’s a big heavy chunk of rubber. Even more that the AF1. The AF2 is very unpleasant to run in. It’s a shoe I never want to put on my foot again.
I would genuinely agree that the vaporfly 1, as the vaporfly 3 just seemed to fall flat. At 130lbs and pacing around 5:45/mile for the marathon it just isn’t as comfortable as the 1 and doesn’t bounce like it either.
I have a pair of next 2 with about 200 K on them. Now tried them on longrun on hilly and gravel terrain. They are about 15 sec per K faster than my fastest trail shoe on steady/moderate effort on long downhills, and maybe even better on slow climbing. Extremely legsaving. Gonna destroy the shoe but gonna use it for next 50 K mixed surface race.
The VF2 popped up in many types of running. It was a huge shoe in HS XC, especially in western states in the US. It still is actually due to being able to find deals on it.
Is it just me, or did anyone else find the ZoomX a lot more "stiff" in the VF2 vs. VF1? I'm more of an AF1 runner / fan and own the VF1 and 2 and just don't reach for the VF2 as much due to the rigidity of the ZoomX when (unfairly) compared to the AF1 and VF1.
As I pointed out in the video…. The foam in the VF1/2 is the older “styrofoam” formula of ZoomX. As far as the differences between the VF1 and VF2, I didn’t notice anything when I ran in both back to back. I also wore them around my studio, one on each foot, for about an hour and also didn’t notice any differences in the foams. However, that’s subjective. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nike tweaked the formula in the VF2 to be a little more firm…as they tweaked multiple other shoes in that generation to be slightly more firm. The AF1 foam, on the other hand d, always felt super squishy to me. It was always the softest ZoomX foam to me until the modern rubbery type we have now.
What is the best racing shoes for the 5k on the roads i am a experienced runner and have been using the vap 3 but i have heard good things about the asics metaspeed paris series
If you are looking for a dedicated 5k racer then that would be the Adidas Takumi Sen 10. The Paris Series are great and I’m enjoying the Edge Paris for some threshold running lately.
Not due the the SF2… more due to the ZF6, which looks to cover training for both the VF3 and AF3. However, I can’t see Nike not making a tempo trainer with air pods in it. Though the Leaked Tempo 2 we saw looked horrible.
@@SagasuRunning The ZF line is pure garbage....doubt Nike will fix that. As for air pods, it really does need to be included in the lineup with the importance they clearly place on the AlphaFly. Plus...I can get over 1100km out of a pair of Tempo Next% (and probably more if I wanted to)....that's nearly priceless to me!
It's interesting that Nike is ok with this, a lot of brands use the elites/major wins to fuel marketing for their racing shoes (Adidas is a perfect example of this with Assefas picture after Berlin of her kissing the Evo 1). Nike doesn't seem to care though which makes me wonder why? Is it because they're so sure of market dominance. Which could be argued that they don't have anymore, or is it because they have indeed written the Vaporfly 3 off. Which is a different discussion in itself because, while companies abandon shoes all the time that don't perform, we really don't see it with something as noticeable as the Vaporfly
As I said in the video, I think they gave up and moved on. Now that the AF3 is a success, is winning and getting headlines… they don’t need to spend anymore time/money trying to convince their elites to use the VF3. It’s very odd though. However, it’s a clear sign they gave up on the VF3.
@SagasuRunning You're right of course, but you would think they'd actually want the Alphafly 3 to be widely available before they do so, it's hard to count it as a constant revenue stream if the majority of the customer base can't even get one
You brought up a very interesting topic (for me at least). I'll explain: Every day I read comments on the shoetubing universe that Nike is dead, Nike can't make a shoe, there's even a guy that comes here EVERY SINGLE DAY to say how much his not a Nike fan, etc. You can find him if you scroll down, for sure. Well, this is absolutely normal, we've all heard of herd behavior before and thrashing Nike is the current cool thing to do in the often uninformed post-Covid running/shoetubing universe (Disclaimer: I'm not referring to you at all). Most likely these people will be adhering to other followings in the next few years, cause that's what they've been doing in all spheres of life ever since they've been born, and I don't really care about it. However, amidst this popular rumor, so widely disseminated, I have yet to see a SINGLE post or comment containing data/figures on running shoe sales, revenues, market share/dominance, for ANY SPORTS COMPANY. I've been sweeping the entire Internet for this information for months now and it looks rather obscure, because apparently brands won't release them. Yet, all market/investor websites I've visited that feature stats on sports brand sales/revenues are unanimous in asserting that Nike sells more shoes, not only running ones, THAN ALL OTHER BRANDS COMBINED. Like 20x what Asics, Puma and NB, just to name three of them. So all these questions remain. Is Nike going down? Is Adidas going up? Does Asics have more than a meager 2% marketshare worldwide? Do runners who are not shoe nerds still wear Pegs and the like? Where are these figures? And most important, can we even start speculating what's going on if we don't have access to them just based on watching videos and looking around other people's feet when we go out for a running? Happy running, y'all!
I absolutely destroyed the outsoles of my two Vaporfly 3s within 25 miles… I sent them both back. Im hoping they rectify the outsole pattern that made me rip off the rear part of the left outsole with my heel strike. But I also felt the VF3s were far less aggressive too than the VF1 and 2. I really didn’t like racing 5k or 10ks in 3. I definitely prefer the VF1 and am not at all surprised elites prefer the older Vaporfly models. I have around 4 pairs of VF1s having bought very good condition ones off eBay. But also I do like the VF2. I really can’t understand why shoe companies have a habit of completely changing the formula of a model line and making them feel like totally different shoes.
Good news is what we have seen on the VF4 it’s a totally new outsole pattern, more similar to the Streakfly 2. No tiered heel rubber. Innovation is tricky. Sometimes they get it (very) right and others not so much….
@josephgonzalez_ Follow “the_secret_shoe” on Instagram. He is very good about being on top of the leaks. Watch his stories and you will eventually see it. The last leak images were about a month ago.
@@SagasuRunning brilliant, thanks! I’ve just followed him and got completely distracted by the Tempo Next% 2! Loved the first one - had three pairs. Outsole looks robust too 😃
I haven't tried the vaporfly 3..V1 &V2 don't work at all for me..I keep trying them in every combination I can think of..different insoles,socks,putting additional insole cushioning in the forefoot ..nothing works..even a 5k is a guarantee for sore feet..same for ASICS sky/edge,puma elite,Saucony pro1,2,3,4..the results are all the same,sore forefoot..as a high arch,forefoot striker I find the forefoot cushioning goes flat very quickly..I use the rocket x2 cos it doesn't go flat even after a lot of races and training runs..I meet a lot of racers that find the vaporfly goes flat during their races..one told me that the vaporfly is made for very lite wt runners and the alphafly is for heavier runners..at 160lbs maybe that's why I can't use the vaporfly..I love the upper other than the lacing but the midsole doesn't work for me..
I have experienced the “going flat feeling” in VFs a few times, though usually after 25-30k and in the 4%, 1 & 2 but never the 3. I also have about 5-10 pounds on you generally. I don’t think the AF is made for heavier runners… but they do benefit from it and being able to load rhe AirPods. It’s odd because the only foam I even Know with absolute certainty that I will get the “going flat” feeling is Hoka foams. Ever Hoka I’ve ever owned starts to pack out around 10-12k. I’ve never owned a Rocket X, but I did have a Carbon x way back when. I know Hoka’s foams have improved, but even the Mach 6 feels a little less lively than it did when new after about 60k… I’m curious if your ever tried Adidas and a Lightstrike Pro shoe?
The hoka regular foams,as well as all the major brands,all go flat at the 9-10mi distance..only the rocket x2 and the Diadora cara carbon can maintain their cushioning past that..even the alphafly V-1, V-2 only work about 1 out of 3 races packs out before the end of a 1/2..the Adidas adios line definitely doesn't work + having a horrible upper..
We glorify VF1 and 2 because at their times there was no real contenders. But I remember clearly that these shoes where unstable and the fit with the lacing really difficult. VF2 when released where not liked by all because compound harder and heel lockdown. And VF1 at their times where not 100% liked because of the fit in the toebox too constrictive. Today with the Metaspeed we really have a good product, I don’t see the point of talking about 5 years old shoes concept. And I know you like the VF3 a lot but way too soft and upper way too spacy in the toebox for the majority of people…
That’s the point though. The VF2 is still very relevant. We do have some great superheroes out there now… but the staying power of the VF2 is undeniable.
I love the V2 and since I haven’t seen the V3 on sale so I haven’t bought it. Note also that Conner Mantz US marathon trials champ still races in the AlphaFly 1.
The Nike pros still choosing the AF1 over the AF3 is a whole other issues. Galen Rupp is another one of them. That issue is more complicated and problematic for Nike.
Hahaha… the thing is is that I don’t really care much about the Alphafly. It’s technically interesting but not my taste for running. It’s the hot shoe of the moment for Nike, not due to it being amazing, more that it is better than the VF3. Things will shift again with the VF4. I do have a video coming this weekend that will get into this all… stay tuned. Plus I have already covered the AF3 extensively technically, including the relationship to the AF1. If I do end up getting a pair I may do a “vs” video comparing the 3 and the 1… but by that time the ship will have sailed in the AF3.
I hate the Vaporfly 3 and I've gone back to my Vaporfly 1's and their still the best shoe. I'm even now looking for a new pair of the 2's. There is no pop out of the 3's and my calves hurt after wearing them. Going to sell my 3's.
Interesting. The sore calves could be due to the added softness changing your form slightly. There are still some VF2s out there with decent deals… going fast though.
@@SagasuRunning that's a good point actually. I never thought of it like that, I've never had issues with the original ones and find I recover well after using them. Yes I've found a few deals on the twos so I'll be snapping one up.
FWIW have a pair of VF2 and recently started running in the VF3. I had a hard time getting on with the VF2 at first, they felt very harsh but after a few runs they broke in so well and became my favourite race shoe and then my favourite training shoe. My current pair I have literally worn the forefoot down to the point where I can see the carbon plate and they still feel good to run in. I have another two pairs which are box fresh which I will return to after I have used the VF3. The VF3 I wouldn't reach to for a 10km, but a half or full marathon I appreciate the compliance and forgiveness the shoe provides.
Agree with this. The VF1/2 FEEL faster and more "race ready", while the VF3 feels more compliant with a bigger sweet spot. The reality is that their performance, especially for non-elite runners, is likely the same. But feeling fast is a big part of it. Regardless of it being a VF1/2/3...I always feel fast when I put them on.
The downgraded the foam but pros and the rest are not fools. Other brands have nowadays good plated shoes. The rest of the line up from nike is now garbage : vomero pegasus etc
@@SagasuRunning in my crew from 32 to 36 10k everybody bought the vaporfly 2 but we all switched for asics or adidas because everybody says the vaporfly3 is bad in term of performance.
I'd say the VF1 is the classic and iconic shoe. The VF2 is less refined with that upper. I adore the VF3 lines though. One of the best looking running shoes in sometime for me.
You hit the nail on the head. Outsole is not talked about enough in the running shoe industry. It plays a major role in a runners confidence in a shoe and connectedness to the ground or not.
I found the same thing with the Adidas Adios 8 over the Streakfly. The giant rubber patch on the Adios 8 made ther shoe so much more useable and versatile… not to mention how much harder I could “dig” into the ground on toe off. It hit me in preparing this video that the VF1/2 did the same thing. It’s something I never really understood about them prior. It’s a big difference though.
For the record I prefer the VF3 outsole, for half and full racing… but anything else the VF1/2 is far better.
I must admit, I prefer the aggressiveness of the 1 & 2 to the 3... when I got the 3 my order was 1 / 3 / 2.. because I felt the foam was nerfed in 2 and it was nice to have the softness back in the 3... but the more I used the 3 the more I found it felt the propulsion wasnt as strong as 1 & 2... so i'd now go 1 / 2 / 3... 3 is a much more universally friendly shoe!
Ya, I remember your videos on it. They stood out to me at the time. In my testing for this video I didn’t notice any difference in the foam between the 1 & 2, but I did notice a huge difference to the 3, that surprised me. The VF1 has the best fit, by far, it’s up there with Asics metaspeed uppers, if not better (I’d love to see Vaporweave back in road race shoes). The VF3 is the most accommodating by far. The VF2 is the least enjoyable to run in due to the upper.
@@SagasuRunning I agree, maybe we should petition to bring back the vaporweave!
You're supposed to be vacationing
We did see a Streakfly 2 proto with a vaporweave upper early on. So it’s still in rotation and consideration at Nike HQ. I was happy to see it on the Ultradly but it’s a horrible trail upper.
I think we could get Tim Grose to sign our petition as well.
@@SagasuRunning ha ha I would but it seems that uppers that are voluminous for racing shoes seem to be what shoe companies think most runners want and need. Maybe because so many don't buy race shoes to exclusively race in these days?
Dear sir,
I've just started running for a few months, so far from an expert, but I find I really enjoy listening to your analyzes of shoes. I even bought the adidas boston 12 based on your videos. keep it up! greetings from Europe
Enjoy the B12. It’s a great shoe. I was thinking to break mine out again just to remember that (though I have no need to run in them at the moment).
Hopefully my content continues to be valuable for you. Thank you for the kind words! 🤙🏻
The good news my local nike factory store has pretty much every size/colorway in V2 for $80-$100
Oh… I’m jealous. I’d love another pair in my current size!
Get me a 12.5 US please!!!
where are you located ahaha
@@flick7402 Bay Area California. Typically you'll see a Nike Factory Store at like an outlet shopping mall, which we do have as well. But there is a specific one called a Nike Clearance Store in San Leandro which is like a superstore and has an unbelievable selection. I think all online returns go to these stores. I got invincible 3s for $80 and all Pegasus' 37-40 are $40-50
Not a Nike fan anymore; but I enjoy your calm lecturing style. You entertain me while I crunch numbers.
Well thank you. 👨🏼🏫
@@SagasuRunning 👍
Super review, you nailed this.
Thank you. 🙏🏻
I finally secured a pair of VF2 (used for about 300 km and at an exceptionally low price) My first Vaporfly and they are outstanding. The bounce and propulsion are amazing. They feel so fast. I used them today for some intervals with jogging in between. They are actually ok for jogging. I´ve read many reviews that they are not meant for slow runs at all but they were ok. Looking forward to many more runs
I assume you know this... 300km is ALOT of wear for a pair of VF2s. Even if their condition looks decent, the plate a foam are worn. The shoe is still fine to run in, as you mentioned, but you are getting a much softer and less propulsive experience overall. Actually a pair of VFs with 300k is a great training option. I know they are your first pair and will feel amazing, but know that a fresh pair will be even more propulsive...
I think that Asics are onto something with the Sky and Edge options in the Metaspeed. I think next level is versions of a model defined by speed, for example, 3 versions being sub 3 min k's, sub 3:40 min k's and sub 4:30 min k's (plus)
Asics stride vs cadence runner thing is bio mechanically interesting but marketing-wise it’s a total nightmare. Asics has also marketed shoes dor certain speeds already. The S4 is for “sub 4 hour” marathoners.
I still think feel (bouncy or propulsive) is the way to differentiate. Unless you are designing a shoe that is stripped down for short road running, Like the NB SC Pacer or Adidas Takumi Sen, any shoe can be raced any distance… even both of those shoes can be raced at the half or full for some runners.
Feel is better… for shorter distances with high speeds I want something more propulsive while at longer distances I want something more bouncy…. That’s a WAY easier marketing story to tell.
Hmmm, this may need to become a video… 🤔
I like a good deal. After missing all those great discounts on the VF2 last year, and my old pair of VF2 wearing out, I ended up buying a lightly used VF1 from a friend to run in Boston. Had no fit issues in training but in Boston I had such bad toe pain from the tight fit that I honestly was scared one toe was broken. Nope, just a crazy aggressive fit! Will be using the VF1 for half marathon and under from now on!
Ya. The toebox in the VF1 was VERY low and the vaporweave upper was very tight. It’s abnormal racing fit though that you can put up with for a race. Training in the VF1, compared to the VF2 or especially VF3 was another story though….
You NAILED it. I have both but prefer the V2 for 5k and the v3 for longer HM/M efforts. Could never really discern why the v2s felt more “aggressive” but this was spot on
Thank you. 🙏🏻 This is something I’ve been thinking about and working on for months.
4%, V2 and V3 owner here. V2 and V3 still in rotation.
Agree on the larger more forgiving sweet spot for the V3, and somehow after the first marathon, I am beginning to feel the arch rubbing on the bottom of my foot. Both shoes are finicky to tighten perfectly, I do sometime wish for a V2 chassis with a V3 toebox. Still saving the V3 for racing a couple of halfs.
Oh, the V3 is better made than the V2, many cases of the V2 breaking apart on the medial side upper and midsole
The V3 toebox is the best. I agree there. Also, they did fix that upper/midsole delamination issue in the forefoot in the V3 as well. That was much needed!
I guess i’m not the only one who’s experiencing the said issue. Looks like I’ll have to live with the imperfection (the said issue) that comes with the V2 haha
This reminds me of the tennis racquet changes. Aggressive top level pros used to use much smaller head sizes with tiny sweet spots, like the wilson pro staff and head prestige, with grindy baseliners using bigger head sizes. This was a problem to the point where companies used to put new model paint jobs on older pro specific models. Nowadays the younger gen have all grown up with the babolats and the minimum 98sq in head sizes and even federer switched his from the 90 sq in to the much larger and forgiving 98. Like the alphafly 3s which apparently have a larger sweet spot, i think as younger runners come up we will see them generally prefering the more forgiving yet still equally propulsive shoes like the alphafly 3s
Interesting insight here. I don’t follow tennis much, especially at the gear level, but I love learning these types of details.
I don't have any exposure with Vaporfly, but v2 is so much better looking.
The VF1 is the icon… now that was a gorgeous shoe. I especially love the Mango colorway of the pair I have in this video. It’s on par with the Evo 1 in my book.
so true. its lamentable that they took what i think is the coolest silhoutte of the modern era in the Next%1, and then they just made it uglier with each iteration
Vf1 looks the best imo, I have the blue ribbon edition + the ediken one + the valerian blue .. for vf3 I went with the eliud kipchoge edition .. vf2 looks the worst imo except the siren red colorway
@jean-phil I agree the VF1 is the best looking for the bunch. I prefer the Mango colorway video. Then the VF3, which has grown on me… both the black/gold colorway and the white/silver colorway (though the EK one was beautiful). The VF2 is the clunkiest of the three but the Proto VF2 (which thumbnail) and the Ekiden ‘22 colorway in this video are the best looking IMO.
I tried the VF3 and was shocked at how soft it ran. It did not work for me at all. I still prefer Adios Pro 3 overall.
I find myself preferring a firmer foam now than inside too. Definitely feeling Lightstrike Pro a lot lately.
Just did a workout in my Vaporfly 3's after watching your video. The upper is too roomy in the toebox. Plus, the ride is softer. Not a bad thing - but it just doesn't have the spring of the original vaporfly or the vaporfly 2. The meta speed edge has more pop for me and is now my go to racing shoe.
I’ve been spending more time in the MSEP the past few weeks and find myself reaching for it for longer fast running, really over anything else I own. The firmness of the platform with the roll from the plate seems to me working well for me… even over the VF3. I think my mechanics and tastes are evolving again.
I’ve tried every Max racing shoe over the last two years and absolutely love the vapor fly 3. I’m no elite runner by any stretch but when I wear those shoes, I feel like I’m flying!
Agree… the VF3 definitely works well and is generous to those who use it. As I said, I still stand by calling it the “best” VF… but not the “fastest”.
the energy return of the v2 send me to the moon, the 3 has no bounce only softness, very gentle to my leg muscles，and the one thing that you missed is the difference in the rockers, v2 rocker is more towards the toes, the v3 rocker is under the mid foot which makes it feel very weird at the landing and push off
The VF3 definitely saves the legs. One of the reasons I love it so much.
I agree with you both, VF1 feels more propulsive, VF3 feels very soft. If I had to pick 1 for marathon, it would probably be VF3, for comfort. For 5k and shorter, VF1.
Same
Cant wait for your review of the Peg Trail 5 and Zegama 2
I am debating to cover the Peg Trail 5, I was going to go see if I can find a pair tomorrow as I’m curious. It’s unlikely I’m cover the Zegama 2. I just don’t have the terrain here in Taiwan where I need it or could really test it well.
Great video. The VF2's are 2 years old but as you know, the platform (midsole, outsole, plate etc) is 4 years old! And it's still a competitive shoe. Speaks a lot to how far ahead of the game Nike were when the VF1 was released.
In some ways, yes, I agree. However, unlike the Adios Pro 3, which is still a current shoe in Addias’s lineup. Nike would prefer this one to go away. But quality does matter and the VF has always been that.
Great video. A Vaporfly 2 replacement is missing in brands current line up for me, it runs closer to the Takumi Sen 9 in stack feel less the toe rocker, making it the slightly faster choice. Still struggling to select my next race shoe that isn't a big stacked marathon shoe. Runner that prefers firmer, low stacked shoes with more aggressive toe roll.
I’ve been running ALOT in the TS10 lately and found they feel very close to the VF2, though they are definitely less cushioned overall. But toe-off is similar for sure.
takumi 10 is no where as fast as the vapor2 for me, the takumi has no bounce in the forefoot, only in the mid foot
@onion3974 I get close. But if chasing a pb, Vaporfly 2 is the only option. Really trying to find another pair for 10ks/halfs.
@@mikerobinson4589hey Mike, as a non biased runner. It’s been hard to find a replacement. However the cloud echo boom 3 by On are really a good choice that resembles vaprofly fit and feel. Not 100% accurate but is the nearest thing. Price tag may b an issue but they’re not bad at all
@marcusszavaleta someone else mentioned them too. Worth a look, thank you. Limited choice really if you don't want a max stack super shoe. Thanks for the help.
Great analysis! I think your second point is spot on. I have 750 miles on 3 pairs of Vaporfly 2s and 100 miles on the Vaporfly 3. A pair of the 2s with 300 miles feels faster than the 3s, but I think that's just by feel and in reality they probably are similar in effort/pace. The 3s just feel so much softer than the 2s (I have a pair of 2s with fewer miles than the 3s) and I'm finding I prefer the stiffer ride of the 2s.
I have been moving towards firmer super shoes lately and the VF3 feels overly soft to me now. Still comfortable and fast… but very soft.
Thank you for the kind words. 🤙🏻
I think you absolutely nailed this video. Good insights. If I were to guess, the new vaporfly that comes out eventually will probably have even more foam in the forefoot compared to the 3 and 2. This will be because the new streakfly will be the 'faster'/ minimalist option. This makes me abit sad, because I love the VF1 and VF2 so much (even though I have my 10km pb in the VF3) and I hoped for a second that it would be more similar to them. The streakfly 2 is basically a Dragonfly for the road, and that is not something people running slower than 31 minutes for a 10km can benefit from in my opinion. The VF4 looks like a solid half-marathon shoe, but too much stack height for a 10km in my opinion. Guess I will have to hunt for more VF2s online :(
Thank you. It does seem Nike is leaning into specialist race shoes again. The VF has been so good because it’s been a generalist that can do anything, especially the VF1/2. Adidas seems to me going to other direction after making the AP3 so marathon specific… the Evo 1, and now the AP4/Evo C seem to be becoming more generalists. It’s interesting how product teams evolve things differently.
I agree , but i also think it is the geometry of the mid . I think the taller/wider and more stable mid spreads the energy throughout a larger area, which causes less compression and agession . But doesn't the new version save the legs more ? I'm just thinking out loud 😅
My legs are definitely fresher from the VF3, in fact the rubberized ZoomX foam is overall better on the legs than the older ZoomX.
Have them both and love them both. They do feel a little different but for me the 3’s give a better ride. But I have no complaints about the 2’s.
I’m happy to own all three and able to run in the first two time to time just to remember…
I think the elites just prefer V2 because it feels much more like a Racing shoe while the V3 seems more of a trainer than anything. Yes it performs when needed to but probably not as fast as V2. Marathoners look for any advantage they can grab and ultimately believe the V2 has more advantages than V3
The VF2 definitely is a race fit race flat. Fully agree.
the reason is simple, the vaporfly 3 is softer that is why is preferred by everyday runners, but it is slower and less responsive. i think when you mention the adidas adios evo 1, you should also include the fact that lots of races and podiums have been achieved by the adios pro 3 and not the evo 1 that cost 2 times more and last 10 times less.
That’s not the point I’m trying to make. I’m not concerned about cost, race shoes should be the bleeding edge of running tech and I appreciate the Evo 1 for what it is, price regardless.
Objectively, the AP3 is a very successful shoe. I’ll have a video coming out about it soon… more to say there.
I don't understand why people need so much softness. Even 2's are very soft and compresses too much compared to Asics or Adidas super shoes at end or races. 7 years ago we all ran with shoes much stiffer than any peba super shoe.
It was the VF that set the standard. ZoomX became THE super foam for many years .It is interesting that Adidas is softening its foams as is Asics… but nowhere near where ZoomX is.
I agree with you VF3 is great! Couldn’t get along with Next % 1 or 2
The VF3 is definitely the most accommodating of the three and the easiest one to run in… though not the fastest.
What is the fastest?
Depends on the runner. The VF2 seems to be fastest for elites. The VF1 seems to still be preferred by many. I find the VF3 is still the fastest for me.
I'm certainly hoping the Streakfly 2 works for HM. They need to release it already!
It sure looks like it could be a HM monster. It all depends on how much foam is actually in it and how aggressive that toe spring is. It could be tuned for faster leg turn over at high speeds. I can’t wait to find out.
Vaporfly 2 was one of the best shoes every made. From 5k-marathon any caliber of runner can use and have great success. Super shoes have made running fast accessible. Discounted super shoes are better than more brand new full price supers.
I prefer the latest gen, but I’m a tech head and like what is new. However, I do go back to shoes in the past and the VF2 is definitely one of those.
I still use my VF2s (I have 2 pairs). Still working fine except for the glue issue on the sole. Any idea what glue to use?
I just used super glue, or any type of instant liquid glue like that. Never had an issue after that. Thankfully, one of the things the VF3 and AF3 seem to have solved is this delamination issue.
@@SagasuRunning same here, my VF3 still looks good atm without any issues.
I feel what’s more surprising is how Adidas was able to create a marathon racer that seems to work for both average runners and elites. The Adios Pro 3. I believe the Pro 3 has more podiums than the Vaporfly 2 and 3, but I’ll probably be corrected on that. The Adios Pro 3 is raved by regulars and elites. Even with the Evo 1, the Pro 3 is still racking up podiums and a favorite for a lot of runners. I have a pair of Pro 3’s and got them because I preferred the feel over the Vaporfly. Just something I thought I’d share.
Agree. The Vaporfly series, all 4 generations, have more podiums than any other shoe. However, the AP3 has more podiums than the VF2 (they are of the same generation, technically). It's also a shoe I've come to really love as well. You may like my next video...stay tuned. 🤙🏻
@@SagasuRunning I look forward to watching! Keep up the great work.
🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
After 4 marathons in the same pair of vf2, I can say that I'm still hesitant to quit these. I ordered the vf3 but I didnt even try them. I also have the adios pro 3, and they are amazing for speed running, very aggressive roll through the stride, that's why I haven't try them to race into the 42k challenge. I probably race once more in vf2, as I use my them only for racing!
Wow, 4 marathons. That’s alot of racing out of one pair. I’m impressed.
@@SagasuRunning all sub 3:30 time
am training for Edinburgh half. am in a quandary over what shoe to use tontry and ensure a pb. did a mixed session in adidas pro 3 vs vaporfly 3. adidas way more cushioned and propulsive, vapor was far more roomy but lighter- didn't know had shoe on.
dont know which is faster.
wondering if should go back to alphafly 1?
Sounds like you need more testing. I’d recommend seeing which feels fastest on foot… THEN confirm that with data.
For me it seems Nike puts way more effort in Marketing in the Alphafly ... and I wonder why. Maybe high plate configurations are more popular to the most? Or because they know they know about the "problems" about the Vaporfly lineup.
More interesstingly is: as someone who is highly interested into the chinese brands, their super shoes are a lot of copy pastes of the older Vapor and Alphaflys...Just a little more fleshed out and usually more durable.
I think it’s the later. You’ll see a big push in the VF4 next year. Luckily, the AF3 seems to be a good shoe.
I honestly think the low plat configuration is still more popular overall, though it’s close right now.
I only vaguely follow Chinese brands, enough to have a sense of what they are doing but not enough to pick out the subtle details.
I did not get on with Vaporfly 2. I thought it was firmer midsole than the Goat v1. Upper was not as good as Vaporweave too. And only lasted me around 177km (all used mainly on dry roads) until I returned it to Nike as the outsole was completely shredded and can see the carbon plate in the forefoot where I land. Loving the Vaporfly 3 (2 pairs) on the other hand, 140km and counting. Vaporfly 1/3/2 in order for me. Here's me hoping Vaporfly 4 has the same status of the v1 or even better.
I’d can definitely agree on 1/3/2…. But am a 3/1/2. I love all three though. So many distinct memories in each one.
I tested the VF1 and VF2 for this video and didn’t notice any difference in feel in the midsole foam. The upper was the big change. I do think the rubber on the VF1 is slightly softer too, it was less slappy.
I prefer the 2 over the 3 too.
I prefer the looks of the VF1 and the feel of the VF3.
How is the rubber (midsole) of the Alphafly V2? Like Vaporfly V2 or V3?
Closer to VF2, it’s a big heavy chunk of rubber. Even more that the AF1. The AF2 is very unpleasant to run in. It’s a shoe I never want to put on my foot again.
Where can I even buy the vaporfly next% 2? I can't find them
They don’t exist anymore. StockX or some reseller is your only real bet.
I would genuinely agree that the vaporfly 1, as the vaporfly 3 just seemed to fall flat. At 130lbs and pacing around 5:45/mile for the marathon it just isn’t as comfortable as the 1 and doesn’t bounce like it either.
Ya… for your build the precision required of the VF1 will benefit you well. You won’t be overloading the shoe like a bigger l, heavier runner.
I have a pair of next 2 with about 200 K on them. Now tried them on longrun on hilly and gravel terrain. They are about 15 sec per K faster than my fastest trail shoe on steady/moderate effort on long downhills, and maybe even better on slow climbing. Extremely legsaving. Gonna destroy the shoe but gonna use it for next 50 K mixed surface race.
The VF2 popped up in many types of running. It was a huge shoe in HS XC, especially in western states in the US. It still is actually due to being able to find deals on it.
@@SagasuRunningCool! 😃
Is it just me, or did anyone else find the ZoomX a lot more "stiff" in the VF2 vs. VF1? I'm more of an AF1 runner / fan and own the VF1 and 2 and just don't reach for the VF2 as much due to the rigidity of the ZoomX when (unfairly) compared to the AF1 and VF1.
As I pointed out in the video…. The foam in the VF1/2 is the older “styrofoam” formula of ZoomX. As far as the differences between the VF1 and VF2, I didn’t notice anything when I ran in both back to back. I also wore them around my studio, one on each foot, for about an hour and also didn’t notice any differences in the foams. However, that’s subjective. I wouldn’t be surprised if Nike tweaked the formula in the VF2 to be a little more firm…as they tweaked multiple other shoes in that generation to be slightly more firm.
The AF1 foam, on the other hand d, always felt super squishy to me. It was always the softest ZoomX foam to me until the modern rubbery type we have now.
VF1 is the GOAT. It was a tragic day when the heel section fell apart on mine after 450k 😂 Not been a shoe to touch it since for me.
The VF1 was remarkable when I first ran in it. Even more so than the 4%. I still remember it vividly.
Is VF1 more roomy than 2? I had to return the 2 because it was too tight.
I few weeks ago tried 3's in interval session and found them weird. I will keep running in old ones.
If you are not expecting the softness in them it takes a bit to adjust. I noticed that testing for this video.
The 2 is way more aggressive which is better for the mile and two mile road/track races
Agree. It has more cushion than the Takumi Sen as well which feels great in those longer distances.
What is the best racing shoes for the 5k on the roads i am a experienced runner and have been using the vap 3 but i have heard good things about the asics metaspeed paris series
If you are looking for a dedicated 5k racer then that would be the Adidas Takumi Sen 10.
The Paris Series are great and I’m enjoying the Edge Paris for some threshold running lately.
Assuming you believe the Tempo Next% is dead because of the completely revamped StreakFly?
Not due the the SF2… more due to the ZF6, which looks to cover training for both the VF3 and AF3.
However, I can’t see Nike not making a tempo trainer with air pods in it. Though the Leaked Tempo 2 we saw looked horrible.
@@SagasuRunning The ZF line is pure garbage....doubt Nike will fix that.
As for air pods, it really does need to be included in the lineup with the importance they clearly place on the AlphaFly. Plus...I can get over 1100km out of a pair of Tempo Next% (and probably more if I wanted to)....that's nearly priceless to me!
@@timtrenholm3698tempo next for the win, got 3 pairs! My fav shoe, great to train while saving AF1 for races
It's interesting that Nike is ok with this, a lot of brands use the elites/major wins to fuel marketing for their racing shoes (Adidas is a perfect example of this with Assefas picture after Berlin of her kissing the Evo 1). Nike doesn't seem to care though which makes me wonder why? Is it because they're so sure of market dominance. Which could be argued that they don't have anymore, or is it because they have indeed written the Vaporfly 3 off. Which is a different discussion in itself because, while companies abandon shoes all the time that don't perform, we really don't see it with something as noticeable as the Vaporfly
As I said in the video, I think they gave up and moved on. Now that the AF3 is a success, is winning and getting headlines… they don’t need to spend anymore time/money trying to convince their elites to use the VF3. It’s very odd though. However, it’s a clear sign they gave up on the VF3.
@SagasuRunning You're right of course, but you would think they'd actually want the Alphafly 3 to be widely available before they do so, it's hard to count it as a constant revenue stream if the majority of the customer base can't even get one
You brought up a very interesting topic (for me at least). I'll explain: Every day I read comments on the shoetubing universe that Nike is dead, Nike can't make a shoe, there's even a guy that comes here EVERY SINGLE DAY to say how much his not a Nike fan, etc. You can find him if you scroll down, for sure.
Well, this is absolutely normal, we've all heard of herd behavior before and thrashing Nike is the current cool thing to do in the often uninformed post-Covid running/shoetubing universe (Disclaimer: I'm not referring to you at all). Most likely these people will be adhering to other followings in the next few years, cause that's what they've been doing in all spheres of life ever since they've been born, and I don't really care about it.
However, amidst this popular rumor, so widely disseminated, I have yet to see a SINGLE post or comment containing data/figures on running shoe sales, revenues, market share/dominance, for ANY SPORTS COMPANY. I've been sweeping the entire Internet for this information for months now and it looks rather obscure, because apparently brands won't release them. Yet, all market/investor websites I've visited that feature stats on sports brand sales/revenues are unanimous in asserting that Nike sells more shoes, not only running ones, THAN ALL OTHER BRANDS COMBINED. Like 20x what Asics, Puma and NB, just to name three of them.
So all these questions remain. Is Nike going down? Is Adidas going up? Does Asics have more than a meager 2% marketshare worldwide? Do runners who are not shoe nerds still wear Pegs and the like? Where are these figures? And most important, can we even start speculating what's going on if we don't have access to them just based on watching videos and looking around other people's feet when we go out for a running?
Happy running, y'all!
I absolutely destroyed the outsoles of my two Vaporfly 3s within 25 miles… I sent them both back. Im hoping they rectify the outsole pattern that made me rip off the rear part of the left outsole with my heel strike.
But I also felt the VF3s were far less aggressive too than the VF1 and 2. I really didn’t like racing 5k or 10ks in 3. I definitely prefer the VF1 and am not at all surprised elites prefer the older Vaporfly models. I have around 4 pairs of VF1s having bought very good condition ones off eBay. But also I do like the VF2.
I really can’t understand why shoe companies have a habit of completely changing the formula of a model line and making them feel like totally different shoes.
Good news is what we have seen on the VF4 it’s a totally new outsole pattern, more similar to the Streakfly 2. No tiered heel rubber.
Innovation is tricky. Sometimes they get it (very) right and others not so much….
@@SagasuRunning excellent news. I’ve tried searching for it and only get 4% results. You know where to look or have good connections!
@josephgonzalez_ Follow “the_secret_shoe” on Instagram. He is very good about being on top of the leaks. Watch his stories and you will eventually see it. The last leak images were about a month ago.
@@SagasuRunning brilliant, thanks! I’ve just followed him and got completely distracted by the Tempo Next% 2! Loved the first one - had three pairs. Outsole looks robust too 😃
@josephgonzalez_ If you follow me… drop me a DM… 😎
I haven't tried the vaporfly 3..V1 &V2 don't work at all for me..I keep trying them in every combination I can think of..different insoles,socks,putting additional insole cushioning in the forefoot ..nothing works..even a 5k is a guarantee for sore feet..same for ASICS sky/edge,puma elite,Saucony pro1,2,3,4..the results are all the same,sore forefoot..as a high arch,forefoot striker I find the forefoot cushioning goes flat very quickly..I use the rocket x2 cos it doesn't go flat even after a lot of races and training runs..I meet a lot of racers that find the vaporfly goes flat during their races..one told me that the vaporfly is made for very lite wt runners and the alphafly is for heavier runners..at 160lbs maybe that's why I can't use the vaporfly..I love the upper other than the lacing but the midsole doesn't work for me..
I have experienced the “going flat feeling” in VFs a few times, though usually after 25-30k and in the 4%, 1 & 2 but never the 3. I also have about 5-10 pounds on you generally. I don’t think the AF is made for heavier runners… but they do benefit from it and being able to load rhe AirPods.
It’s odd because the only foam I even Know with absolute certainty that I will get the “going flat” feeling is Hoka foams. Ever Hoka I’ve ever owned starts to pack out around 10-12k. I’ve never owned a Rocket X, but I did have a Carbon x way back when. I know Hoka’s foams have improved, but even the Mach 6 feels a little less lively than it did when new after about 60k…
I’m curious if your ever tried Adidas and a Lightstrike Pro shoe?
The hoka regular foams,as well as all the major brands,all go flat at the 9-10mi distance..only the rocket x2 and the Diadora cara carbon can maintain their cushioning past that..even the alphafly V-1, V-2 only work about 1 out of 3 races packs out before the end of a 1/2..the Adidas adios line definitely doesn't work + having a horrible upper..
We glorify VF1 and 2 because at their times there was no real contenders.
But I remember clearly that these shoes where unstable and the fit with the lacing really difficult.
VF2 when released where not liked by all because compound harder and heel lockdown.
And VF1 at their times where not 100% liked because of the fit in the toebox too constrictive.
Today with the Metaspeed we really have a good product, I don’t see the point of talking about 5 years old shoes concept.
And I know you like the VF3 a lot but way too soft and upper way too spacy in the toebox for the majority of people…
That’s the point though. The VF2 is still very relevant. We do have some great superheroes out there now… but the staying power of the VF2 is undeniable.
I love the V2 and since I haven’t seen the V3 on sale so I haven’t bought it. Note also that Conner Mantz US marathon trials champ still races in the AlphaFly 1.
The Nike pros still choosing the AF1 over the AF3 is a whole other issues. Galen Rupp is another one of them. That issue is more complicated and problematic for Nike.
Then you’ve got another Nike problem episode to make!
Hahaha… the thing is is that I don’t really care much about the Alphafly. It’s technically interesting but not my taste for running. It’s the hot shoe of the moment for Nike, not due to it being amazing, more that it is better than the VF3. Things will shift again with the VF4. I do have a video coming this weekend that will get into this all… stay tuned.
Plus I have already covered the AF3 extensively technically, including the relationship to the AF1. If I do end up getting a pair I may do a “vs” video comparing the 3 and the 1… but by that time the ship will have sailed in the AF3.
I don’t have zuck’s instagram - where danni see the shoes?
@the_secret_shoe
"Good, Perfect, Strong form" EXACTLY no way I could run a marathon in the VF2 prefer the "Super Shoe" for the everyday man.
The VF2 definitely requires good form and rewards good training…
Nice.
🤙🏻
The V2 is still the best shoe imo
It definitely has the performance chops... but I do personally prefer the VF3.
I hate the Vaporfly 3 and I've gone back to my Vaporfly 1's and their still the best shoe. I'm even now looking for a new pair of the 2's. There is no pop out of the 3's and my calves hurt after wearing them. Going to sell my 3's.
Interesting. The sore calves could be due to the added softness changing your form slightly. There are still some VF2s out there with decent deals… going fast though.
@@SagasuRunning that's a good point actually. I never thought of it like that, I've never had issues with the original ones and find I recover well after using them. Yes I've found a few deals on the twos so I'll be snapping one up.
It sounds like Nike need a mass market vaporfly and a vaporfly elite.
FWIW have a pair of VF2 and recently started running in the VF3. I had a hard time getting on with the VF2 at first, they felt very harsh but after a few runs they broke in so well and became my favourite race shoe and then my favourite training shoe. My current pair I have literally worn the forefoot down to the point where I can see the carbon plate and they still feel good to run in. I have another two pairs which are box fresh which I will return to after I have used the VF3. The VF3 I wouldn't reach to for a 10km, but a half or full marathon I appreciate the compliance and forgiveness the shoe provides.
Come back in 2025 and see... 😎
Agree with this. The VF1/2 FEEL faster and more "race ready", while the VF3 feels more compliant with a bigger sweet spot. The reality is that their performance, especially for non-elite runners, is likely the same. But feeling fast is a big part of it.
Regardless of it being a VF1/2/3...I always feel fast when I put them on.
First! 🎉
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2nd
V1 > V2 > V3. Not the best trend when a shoe from 2019 is the best
1/3/2 for me, though the VF3 is certainly the best all rounder. Agree, the optics for Nike right now are not great.
This feels like a squishy trainer compared to 1/2
The VF3, I assume?
The downgraded the foam but pros and the rest are not fools. Other brands have nowadays good plated shoes. The rest of the line up from nike is now garbage : vomero pegasus etc
ZoomX is far from downgraded, the success of the Alphafly 3 shows that, but it has changed a lot.
@@SagasuRunning in my crew from 32 to 36 10k everybody bought the vaporfly 2 but we all switched for asics or adidas because everybody says the vaporfly3 is bad in term of performance.
bc the vaporfly 2 is the goat. forget that updated upper or Air unit nonsense🗿
A VF3 upper on a VF2 midsole… I know I’ve seen it, but I’d love to try it. I agree, simpler the better for a race shoe.
Interesting. probably Vaporfly 2 should be reproduction.
Given the current Nike Elite preferences I’m surprised it’s not.
The V2 Vapes is A WORK OF ART. The V3 is UGLY WITH A HEEL THAT LOOKS LIKE THE BACK OF A TUGBOAT. THE V2 is the GOAT OF RACING SHOES 🏃🏼♂️🏃🏃♀️
I'd say the VF1 is the classic and iconic shoe. The VF2 is less refined with that upper. I adore the VF3 lines though. One of the best looking running shoes in sometime for me.