ROGUE Changes Are Kinda .... | All NEW Runes | Season of Discovery | Classic WoW
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
- RestedXP now features a FREE guide on rune locations (that are being updated ASAP for both factions) will be super useful on alts or just getting last few harder to find runes. Check out the 1-60 leveling guide thats been developed by classic's top speedrunners too! (also free up to level 20) www.restedxp.com/?ref=WillE Use Code: WILLE for 5% off!
The Rogue in Vanilla WoW has attracted some of the most well known names to the game over the years, and when you can pick any fight you want, and then make it even more unfair after that, its easier to see why.
Season of Discovery is going to be adding a ton of new class idenities for the rogue, so there will be plenty to look forwards to... though I will say I have 1 or 2 potential issues with how the class is shaping up.
Either way this is ROGUE Changes Are Kinda .... | All NEW Runes | Season of Discovery | Classic WoW
For more general info on how the season works check out this video: • The HUGE Next Step for...
► Check Out My New Second Channel: / @lexiconlol
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Find Me On:
★ Join the Cult: / willemmo
★ Patreon: / willemmo
★ Twitter / mmowille
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Songs Used:
► WoW OST
----------------------------------------------------------------------
#wow #classicwow #mmorpg - เกม
RestedXP now features a FREE guide on rune locations (that are being updated ASAP for both factions) will be super useful on alts or just getting last few harder to find runes. Check out the 1-60 leveling guide thats been developed by classic's top speedrunners too! (also free up to level 20) www.restedxp.com/?ref=WillE Use Code: WILLE for 5% off!
* Disclaimer on how runes will work! *
There have been a few other runes datamined, but Blizzard have confirmed they might just be earlier versions of abilities and won't necessarily be in for release, so for the time being i'll stick to talking about the known ones which were seen at Blizzcon.
These are all the confirmed runes up to level 25 for this class
There are currently 3 rune slots on the chest, legs and gloves. You can change runes you have found freely and repeatedly.
Runes have a pre-determined slot - a "chest" rune cannot be applied to gloves/ legs.
More runes will be added in the future.
Runes are discovered out in the world.
No public PTR for this season - will have to find them once its live!
Cooldowns/cast time etc of abilities won't be confirmed till live.
Check this video for more general info on season: th-cam.com/video/o1WKC5pQvTQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=WillE
Keeping combo points when you tab target would really bring all of this together.
then its gonna be monk. Not gonna happen
@@Icyburnqt monk doesnt exist in classic, and even on retail u keep ur cp while swapping targets
@@Icyburnqtrogues keeping combo points between targets is from TBC, if I’m wrong then it’s WotLK
pretty sure you are wrong on both of those. I think in cata they get an ability that manually lets them move combo points to a new target. but they don't apply to the rogue until MOP or WOD.@@ChristopherKaiJensen
I could see this actually being a thing, because it seems clear and put out there all of the info on RUNES for classes, but what seems sneaky and overlooked, is a lot of the classes' regular abilities might be getting twinked too (for example, I've seen posts of the Pally's flash heal being an instant HoT , and hunters portentially getting ranged traps that are out of combat).
SO if Rogue abilities are tweaked too....especially for making tanking more viable, I could DEF. see something about keeping combo points.
I had wondered if blizz hasnt intended for all these classes to tank, but rather as an alternative option to sitting in lfg for 2 hours trying to find someone to tank. If you have 2 secondary tank you can easily move slow through a dungeon or tackle solo content rather than being bottlenecked by old vanilla mechanics.
Also now thinking about it, it might be relevant for end game content. They might be balancing this around that where you need a physical single target off tank or something:
@@Epidombe This has always been a design point in classic. Different bosses often require very different numbers of tanks. Naxx bosses need anywhere from 1 to 4, for example. Having somebody be able to just show up in dps gear and do dps, then swap to being able to generate threat as a 3rd or 4th tank for the fights that need it without having to completely respec definitely seems like it is probably more of the intent rather than them being true main tanks.
I was tanking SM GY on a Affli Warlock yesterday with no Healer.
So yea, these tanks will be viable for normal people but for the high end superparser nerds, they’ll find the “best” one that does the most dmg and that will be considered the “only” tank. Classic Brain.
right but they will be having novel bosses in SoD with BFD being the raid. i can imagine them using new mechanics like that to encourage people to not run 8 warrior 2 priest raids@@Seinglede
@@bosssavage3325 There is always going to be a gap between what is optimal and what is viable. At least in OG classic, viewing warriors as the only real tanking option wasn't even classic brain, it was just correct. Warriors were the only tanks that could become both uncrittable and uncrushable. Paladins had no taunt, and constantly were at risk of running out of mana, meaning they were rarely useful on boss fights. Bear druids had no way to mitigate crits or crushing blows, meaning they would randomly take 50-100% bonus damage regularly. Sure, those tanks worked in 5 mans, but 5 mans were tuned such that a ret paladin could turn on righteous fury and tank, technically, so those hardly count. It was pointless gathering tank gear on non warrior tanks, because your tanking career ends extremely quickly after 5 man dungeons, so nobody really played them since doing so was a pretty big dead end. You simply did not have the tools you needed to properly function in most raid content. They could tank in the same way that shamans could technically tank in TBC. It worked, kind of, but it was always a struggle. Warriors will probably still be optimal, but at least the runes will push classes into the realm of viability, at the very least.
Combat daggers only needing 40 energy to use backstab now is pretty awesome (It was already a strong spec/way to play rogue) but now it’s gotten even better IMO.
rogue tank was a meme in original tbc days actually, because they added some druid def gear and rogues could get dodge gear. blizz dug deep on rogue lore for thos one
For tank rogue: it would be nice for a upgraded version of Expose Armor, to where instead of just reducing armor on target it would steal the armor and give it to the rogue. That would solve the lack of armor rogues will have for not being able to wear plate.
so you take off their armor and put it on? No.
Or you could do something crazy if armor is problem... Play an actual plate wearer, crazy I know.
can a plate wearer... sprint? etc
Rogue would be a fun tank@@PNarbz123
@@nexusobserveWhy not. Classic rogues stuff an entire mount in their back pocket. Heck, you can find an entire 2H mace inside a dead murloc. I don’t see a fantasy issue here.
I just don't think rogues have any reason they should be wearing armor if they have slice and dice/sprint and other abilities that imply you are nimble.
Can't be nimble with armor, hence the dark souls Slow Roll@@o0Donuts0o
Ok so let us get one thing out of the way. During playtesting at blizzcon one of the streamers were playing rogue and hovered over the mutilate ability. It said daggers only. The rune doesnt say it, but the ability does.
In the demo it seemed druid windfury works alongside poisons/sharpening stones
I once had a Rogue Tank moment, it happened on Maexxna, all the tanks died and I was next on the threat list, I popped evasion and tanked her long enough to save that try from a wipe, I even have footage of it on another computer
Rogue Tank is what I'm going for in SoD, it was my main when Classic first launched and this new role has me excited for being an MT for my new guild in SoD
EDIT: I will admit that the way Just a Flesh Wound works has me worried when it comes to opening on bosses but this will either be remedied with a priest shield or another class tanks for a bit while the Rogue gets going. However all the tank stuff is about not getting hit at all, later on more runes may get added that helps survivability but also the new raids mean new loot, Blizzard can add gear specifically that is higher in armor value or boosts parry and dodge chance + defensive skill
For dibs on Thunderfury? :)
We had our main rogue in Classica vanilla try to tank a couple bosses for shits and giggles. It went ok at first but then went to shit when they ran out of cooldowns lol. I'm pretty sur they didn't use any spec that would have helped, or gear. it was just their main shit.
i did this but it was vael in BWL, died when evasion ended but so did the boss
@@increasegas2221 I want to say that it was Ony for our guild but I really can't remember lol
Rogues need a “deal damage when you parry” effect like Shield Spike.
Could even be added baseline into Blade Flurry. Parrying deals 100% main hand weapon damage to the target. Also, could be parrying automatically applies Mainhand Poison. Either of these should deal extra Threat with no ICD.
Would also like to see a “magic damage reduced = to parry chance”
Or “you can parry Spells” OR “you now REFLECT spells back to the caster = to parry chance”
Something about a Rogue deflecting spells with their weapons away from themselves seems very inline with what I believe an agile tank would do and sounds very fun.
Also wouldn’t mind a 10-15% Stam increase modifier somewhere OR healing taken increase?
Would love new poison types or additions to current poisons as well:
Deals X dmg and reduces targets chance to hit by 3% (Insect Swarm)
Deals X dmg and increases targets chance to be parried by the rogue by X% stacking to 5.
Applies Slow and decreases dmg done by X (curse of weakness)
Also, as a tank, something like the following would be great: avoiding attacks (parry, dodge, miss) generate 5 energy.
I think Assassin rogue is gonna be the top dps spec in later tiers assuming other specs don’t get some absolutely crazy ability or buffs. Your crit is absurd with AQ/Nax gear so Mutliate putting you at 4-5 combo points depending where you are in the combo is pretty insane. Envenom already looks to do more damage than Eviserate and you’ll basically be spamming it. I do really hope they remove charges on poison though.
Bro you are future tripping like a year and a half out lol
Especially the poison charges are a concern, as a mutilate rogue can (and will) go through them fast
I get a feeling combat dagger rogue using mutilate would just end up being better than any assassin memes at that point since poisons have such bad scaling
I still remember in og TBC me and my guild were still getting geared from Karazahn and one time we had a tier 6 rogue come in and they effectively tanked a bunch of the dungeon. As a main healer though I have to say nothing is more depressing than a tank that won't take damage but when they do they pretty much just die.
I think the tanking portion of rogues is intended to be more niche and not to be a full replacement of a thicc plate wearing warrior. Impossible to say without seeing it but this whole thing is meant to be an experiment.
Ultimately i think rogues were lower prio on the changes list because they already did so well in vanilla, it makes more sense to give the bigger and fancier changes to the classes that needed it. Who knows tho, by endgame we could be seeing main tank rogues. So much avoidance and mitigation they will specialize in beefy single target bosses like Patchwerk. Cant get one shot if you don't get hit ;)
Plate wearing warriors? HAH!
Not sure about you, but across portions of classic raids and tbc, rogue could evasion tank. They could also Emergency tank while the druid gets off a b-rez.
Thats what I see them as, they're replacing the role shamans and pallys had, the "Oh shit, we can't find a tank, fuck it, xXRogueXx, you're up"
I've emergency rogue tanked all the way through Cata many times lol
Mhahahhahahahaha tbc rogue tanking bro youd get crit crushed to death
Ever since TBC when I found out rogues could be tanks if they stacked druid gear I've wanted to try rogue tanking, but the build was patched out mere days after I found it out and never really got to try it, I am SUPER HYPED for SoD to finally let the dream be real!
WillE pumping out those videos to make it in time for the release 😂
Hope it's not too stressful! Keep up the good work!
Thanks! Ended up losing my voice for a few days so im a bit behind where I wanted to be in terms of releases, but I will get them all done before launch!
@@WillEmmo Lill tip: keep chugging tea with honey, maybe add a splash of rum or whisky to keep that voice instead of loosing it
@@WillEmmo Sounds rough and about what I expected for such a tight pace! We appreciate your efforts, thank you!
@@WillEmmowhat a champ!
For Quickdraw, they teased Shuriken Toss in one of their screenshots, which at one point gave them a ranged autoattack after use? So if that works as it did, then rogues might have enough support for a dedicated ranged spec.
COME onnnnn range rogue spec! I so hope so, so we can now claim ranged weapons as rogue weapons :3
HAHA Funny thing is the original talent before they changed to to weapon expertise in combat was "thrown weapon spec" that gave 6 extra yards on your throw, so this would be a funny thing to see after they changed it mid vanilla and never looked back.
Shuriken toss might be used as a ranged combo builder
Combat mutilate is going to be top notch tbh... even without seal fate (which in classic expacs crits give 3 cps instead of 4 as they did back in the days) u have a 60 energy builder that hits like a truck with 30% crit chance and gives 2cps + the cds + weapon exp... so i think u WILL be able to snd + envenom reliably (both rupture and poisons didnt scale well though iirc)
backstab better w lowered energy cost?
@@SXLLXNBXE i dont think that we will use backstab in pve in sod, except if a better glyph comes in mutilate's spot
Looking forward to seeing more details on what Shaman will be getting for changes. Hoping they make Elemental more viable.
rogue tank really feels just like a "o shit we have no tank" thingy for 5mans.
I mean no physical mitigation initially in a raid where any boss just deletes you when looking at you as a rogue feels very unuseable.
But as a "Ok Il tank then" since it can boil down to just swapping runes on a rogue in 5man content can be usable.
considering that subtlety is probably the mitigation tanking spec you can place combo points with premeditation when you need more than the cheapshot ones
Yeah if you go a sub/combat mix you will have x2 evade so be pretty much immune to damage many boss fights and you get combo points every time you dodge. That helps make up for not being able to take improved slice and dince.
I like that term Package for the groups of enchants which serve the same purpose
Shadowstrike is a retail ability that was called cloak and dagger which I believe was removed from the talent tree
shadowstrike is back on retail for sub rogues. shouldve given shadow dance if they planned on adding shadowstrike.
The gun and saber slash runes are clearly trying to emulate outlaw rogue from live. How well they'll do is anyone's guess.
For the tank rogue, you didn't mention that with so much parry, rogue will be able to disarm their target at almost 100% uptime, making them beast at tanking weapon wielding raid boss such as 4 horsemen. With their sprit to reposition themselves, they'll be excellent "utility tank", for a lack of a better term
That one boss
20 less energy on backstab is probably more impactful than youre thinking. Dagger can feel clunky because of bs cost, this will make it smooth af
For first phase of SOD PvP Quick Draw and Between the Eyes allows to chain CC together with Gouge. Its absolutly huge. Nobody can touch you, nobody can run in a 1v1. It might be less important after Blind, Cheap Shot and Kidney Shot, with are all aquired after level 25.
Poisons seem to have been fixed entirely in a new build. Deadly Brew now reads as follows:
"Grants several improvements to your poisons:
When you inflict any other poison on a target, you also inflict Deadly Poison.
If your weapon does not have a poison applied, it has a chance to trigger Instant Poison as if Instant Poison were applied.
Deadly Poison and Instant Poison now gain increased damage from your Attack Power."
Super informative for someone that hasn't played rogue before, cheers
I always wanted a Rogue tank, and got one in Rift with the Riftstalker. I really wish they would make this a spec into retail.
I asked the question if rogues could tank. I main tanked Nefarian in classic for fun while it was current. There's also the niche 100% avoidance builds in both classic and tbc.
As a Rogue Main since Vanilla this sounds interesting. I have the same thoughts on the Tank Rogue. Im not sure how they pull off the Pull. Normaly you get oneshot by most Bosses without CD's and the CP loss for target switch is heavily punishing in this szenario. Building up 5 Cp's without CD's can be a pain even without target switch. If they update CP's like they are later ('CP on yourself and maybe Energy refill as a flow) that could work better. Envenom sounds interesting too if they enhance poisenstacks. Otherwise its a pain to just constanly reapply . If they do this sounds pretty good. The potential with sword spec, HoJ, Wf, double Poisons and Envenom feels like a bunch off damage that ignores Armor witch is pretty strong. Next thing i wonder if they update WF to a Buff just like the feral one. Otherwise Feral's WF sounds much more desirable as shaman WF.
Rogue should be a squishy but hard to hit class. They should not just be a warrior tank with different abilities. Class difference and class fantasy are important in classic.
This! So much this. A rogue tank will be different, it won't be able to take a hit easily so it'll all be about positioning, kiting and smart play.
I love that it has 'holes' in its kit. We don't want retail here.
I don't understand why so many people are saying "rogue tank is never something people have talked about" when it's something I have thought about ever since I first saw a rogue with 60% dodge and all the defensive talents in vanilla
Shaman and rogue tanks are the two things I'm most excited about in SOD, I'll probably main shaman tank in phase 1 and rogue in phase 2
It seems more like an off tank option making giving the rogue a bit more versatility beyond just face rolling DPS, I don't see them running groups through dungeons but guess we'll see
You def need new talents for tank rogue to work properly at 60! We support the effort Blizz is doing and give time hopefully those changes wont fail after all
They sound more like off tanks for specific pulls/secondary tanks. Sitting on 2nd aggro list and taking threat during certain boss phases so you can pop cool downs and give the healers a breather while you just parry/dodge everything for that window. And the gun skills... probably just to maintain dps during phases where you get pushed out of melee. And not being useless in MC against Shazz :P
Which add on do they use to show health bar, combo points and debuffs on target @ 11:40? :)
Correct me if im wrong, but i feel like rogue with deadly brew should be using wound poison on his main hand just cause it had a way better proc rate than instant did, this way you get 5 deadly stacks faster to start doing tons of dmg as early as possible.
I think energy pooling will make the difference between bad tanks and great tanks. I think it will also force a playstyle to not always use a finisher only at around 4-5 combo points. One amazing thing about rogue tanks is that can actually control their position on the threat table if needed with the use of vanish for example, too bad feint is getting replaced.
thistle tea for launch threat will be super op as well
I think it would be cool if Rogue fits an off-tank role. Grab an add or the boss during a mechanic and be unhittable for 15 seconds while you hold aggro, then go back to DPS when the add dies or vanish to give the threat back to the main tank.
This is the thinking SoD needs. Instead of thinking "how can this class be OP if it's not that good", think of other ways they can be used.
@@diode_wow Would be nice but ultimately it's hard to find many cases in any MMO where total min-maxing to do one thing the best isn't just the correct thing to do. It's on Blizz to make the balance to where a DPS/Evasion Off Tank is viable, if not occasionally optimal.
i like the gun stuff even tho it might not be used all. it might not fit in with their rotation cause poison is alrdy slowing them so its only effective on a few classes and u might jst wanna stealth instead of staying combat
Unless im misreading it, the envenom for season of discovery does not mention anywhere that it wont consume deadly poison stacks. And if it does consume the stacks, this means any form of assa is even more dead than it already would be.
The lacerate version of sinister strike depending on how much damage it does and the reduced energy cost on backstab, as it stands now, could make rogues the top dps in end game content, since they already were able to come close to what warriors were doing in classic with full world buffs.
envenom is confirmed not to consume deadly poison even though it doesn't read in the tooltip. Also warriors got a huge dmg buff so i doubt any class will be overtaking them
Just 10 more days!!!! I can't wait.
I am pretty sure they chose rogue tank because over the years rogues where one of the three not "traditional" tank classes that tanked. Rogues could avoidance tank on some fights, mages did some ranged target tanking in gruuls lair, and warlocks also did some ranged tanking on some fights. Two of these classes got tank specs. Shamans got it because everyone speculated that in vanilla, shamans were supposed to tank with enha spec. I am just dissapointed they did not come out with disc priest tank, cause originally, they also were supposed to tank using Bucklers (not shields) which got removed later on.
my 5head theory is that rogues will get a "stagger" mechanic similar to retail brewmaster monks. Imagine they even name it Swagger to keep with swashbuckler theme. But that makes the most sense to me if rogues are to be main tanks and not get popped by a boss crit. Would also help them with magic mitigation. I really hope its this or something similar, I'd really like to MT for my guild as rogue than be regulated to OT only. I have a feeling warlock tanks are going to be busted strong though, so sticky with mob threat that they'll grow bark.
In Vanilla we had a small guild with no Warriors, so we did every 5 man with my Rogue and another Rogue "tanking".
On trash we'd have someone on Team Speak count down and we'd Sap in unison, the Mage would sheep another target and we'd burn down one target at a time. We'd use evasion and vanish as our oh shit buttons. Eventually I spec'd into Imp Sap and the combat rogue had mace stun to make it even easier.
With so many Rogues in early vanilla, we weren't the only ones who did this so the Evasion Tank was a thing in 2004.
Is it confirmed that the debuff cap was increased or entirely removed for raiding? All these dot specs look fun, but entirely useless if raiding isn't changed.
I don't think a rogue is meant to be a main-tank in raids, just a solution for leveling up dungeons when other tanks are not available.
i kinda wanted to play rogue tank but the more i look into it i realise its probably gonna be horrible on anything thats not single target, even hunter with their buffed pet will probably be a better tank
Rogues got a "tanking" role as a joke. Espeically so when tbc came out. Because often times when the actual tank went down the rogue would have the threat and get the boss on them. They'd have to pop evasion and jokes were often made about them being a better tank then the tank. Or Tanking rogue ftw. And when cloak of shadows was introduced it basically gave them fully immunity for several seconds. Dodge all melee and immune to all magic.
They already alerted deadly brew so that instant poison issue is no longer.
With that much Parry you'd be using Riposte off CD (6 seconds) and 150% dmg will be huge threat. Ill be trying 3/3 imp gouge (cant live without it) and probably open every group pull by gouging CC target, putting up parry buff (Blade Dance) then tabbing to skull, will feel like pvp haha. Imp gouge feels like forever in classic, it will be enough time to get threat on skull then tab back. I think theyll give us fan of knives eventually though which will be way too op.
gouge in dungeons on rip? maybe if its a healer but no one is going to let you do that. esp getting the full 3/3 duration off
Shadowstrike and quick shot both seem to be tools you could use to get 1 combo to get blade dance up and running on the pull.
You would then have to drop some of the tanking runes though.
You wont use either when tanking. The tanking runes fill up the slots.
I have totally heard people trying to tank on rogue, but that was more in TBC. I know of guilds using rogues to tank Malchezaar.
Wait, dont feral druids give windfury now? Would that potentially work while rogues have poisons on?
It does. Feral’s ability is not a weapon modifier. It works with poisons.
I think they need to change it so main gauche activates blade dance immediately or refresh its duration if already active. it has a 20 second CD so you can open every pull with it. As for the aoe seems obvious they will get fan of knives eventually so phase one they probably won't work.
I think FoK is sort of unlikely. I sort of expect they'll down port some variation of the Unfair Advantage talent as Rogue's "AoE" tanking ability.
cant wait for the shaman video
Any ideas for server choice SOD wise? EU PVE player here.
My guess is that the purpose of a rogue tank will be to keep secondary melee targets busy in a multi-enemy boss encounter where if the rogue is skilled enough they might not need a healer at all once their rotation is on.
The tank loadout gonna be crazy just for solo levelling honestly.
I'm gonna be trying out rogue tank cause I joked with my friends about wanting to tank as a rogue before Season of Discovery was announced. AOE threat is gonna be a big issue but getting riposte procs should help a ton with threat generation especially with a super high parry chance.
Until blade rush at lvl 30 it's gonna be a bit of a meme, though at lvl 30 onward it should be quite strong, as an off tank or mass aoe pull. Assuiming the parry and damage reduction is enough. Priest is still thy best friend as bubble to start the pull is a great option or Los around a wall. Truthfully im skeptical on whether or not it will be enough but certainly an interesting idea to play around with.
That ranged slow would also fix the issue of not having a combo point without being in range to get hit. Giving them the crit immunity for 6 seconds to get in and start throwing hands.
New craftable profession items that bring each profession up to engineering standards would be great
Rogues absolutely should be able to tank. That makes me super happy. But needing to use a finisher to become tanky is pretty much a deal breaker. They're going to be pretty awful probably. I think they should make Blade Dance affect Blade Flurry instead -- and make Blade Flurry a toggle. Solves pretty much all the issues imo.
I will say -- from a PvP standpoint -- I've always loved playing Ambush/Backstab. Mutilate could be a game changer with my old Vanilla build. I'm looking forward to some theorycrafting. Anyone can play a stunlock stan if you have any sense of timing and the reagents -- and getting stun locked is boring. It's way more fun to try and global people/survive the fallout imo.
Wont it be good shadowstrike into mutilate and with the next tick backstab?
In original TBC rogues were capable to tank certain bosses, sure it require some work and help from raid but it was doable.
rogue def got the short end of the buffs/changes in sod compared to literally every other class.
Fresh vibe is needed. Rogues were too good. Too many rogues everywhere
@@victorroque7727 yeah well just wait you thought rogues were bad get ready for the hunter and warlocks destroying everyone and everything
I'll be one of the hunters ....
Do we know if SoD will have PvP servers?
I HOPE Rogue’s Poisons no longer have charges to them.
But wasn't blade flurry turned in to dmg reduction as tank?
Rogue tank be very situational, probably not a bad off tank for certain fights. You are required to use Daggers for Mutilate, few people in the demo that did pick it highlighted it with swords equiped.
Naa it looks far more like a main tank build, its poor aoe and being almost immune to a bosses hit damage means it should take close to zero damage most boss fights thx to evasion. With 100% extra threat on its damage and combo points every time it dodges it will out threat any other tank by a long way. You would want an off tank or aoe tank for most of the trash packs. It will really struggle with the few bosses that stun as it will then take far more damage than any other tank but stuns from bosses are extreamly rare.
@@alistairbolden6340 Lol its far from a main tank build, they don't have the health to survive bosses that cast abilities or do elemental damage.
@@PNarbz123 Its true that max hp is a problem but rogues and druids have very good options for elemental resistence. For MC and Bwl the core hound set would be good enough. Buffed in the pvp set a rogue has just over 6k life, in 250+ fire res gear hes going to have about 5.5k While that is not super high priests bubbles and healing in general will only need to happen to heal the spell damage of each boss, as the hit damage and any effects that happen on hit will be evaded. Even before these changes rogues would in theory take less damage on a boss fight than a protection speced and geared tank thx to evasion+ prep, they simply could not taunt before or they would have already been the best tanks in the game.
The biggest issue I see is the cooldown on prep, if the boss fight ever lasts more than 35ish seconds they will start to take damage while preps on cooldown and its a 10min cooldown so will only be up for every other boss. As for being an off tank, that really depends on what aoe tools they get later on, if they get FoK it will break the game. But they will need some form of aoe to be able to offtank, even then I think feral druid that takes windfury rune is a better option for an offtank. I plan to take 2 rogue tanks that will each tank every other boss and 2 feral druids that will tank most of the trash and give our rogues and warriors better windfury. Im on the fence currency about healing mages but they may well be meta by end game, but I think disk priest is going to also have a big role raiding once again for both paladin and rogue tanks.
Anyone who’s played as rogue for a long time knows there were times/niche instances where rogues *could* tank/off tank, or at very least take aggro if the tank dies and stay alive for ~15+ seconds of evasion lol
Pull by stealthing to mobs and ambush or CS instant points.
I'm excited to try and play Duelist Rogue (tank) I have wanted an evasion/dodge/parry tank, and more classes who can fill in especially at different armor tiers I think will be super cool. I don't think it will work, and as it looks now I think rogue will not be able to tank anywhere near as well as the other classes (including warlock and shaman). I will have fun trying however.
Rogue tanking sounds like what enhancement tanking was back in vanilla, not great but good in a pinch. Just throwing these tank runes on to tank a group quest.
I imagine rogue will be the class i level second with the intention of it being my main in the future. I think once we get discovery and they realise class identity is way too important to just throw any role at any class they'll 180 on things like tank rogue, not necessarily removing it, but making it impossible to see a world where a rogue is main tank. Turning "tank" rogue into just an offtank in rare situations OR it bascially being a pvp spec.
I get the feeling. On one hand they try to make dungeonruns a bit better. You don't need Warrior Tanks so often. You have Shamans, with Tankrunes and looks very strong. Druide gets better, Paladin, Rouge oh Rogue and also Warlock. But there is another thing, offtanks. I also thing, the try to find offtanks.
Some DDs can take Tankroles and so you can change Encounters away from 2 Tanks Konzept, you can clear safer Mobgroups in Raids.
But Time will tell what realy shines and what not.
Great Content on your channel
I think rogue tanks will pop off once we get closer to 60 they already in classic can pick up a very high amount of dodge and if using abilities properly can possibly have total combat table coverage. That means zero physical damage incoming. And if they talent into setup in the sub tree they could potentially output mostly finishers
I think people need to look at the private server ascension and see how much inspiration Blizzard took from them. Literally everything classwise in SoD is from Ascension.
These guys are gonna be all over Dal'Rend's Arms when the level cap gets there.
Oh fuck I think I'm going to play Rogue for the first time since my original toon in Vanilla. Something about poisons and parrying is calling out to me
Mutilate all about backstab, so you need daggers and stay behind the target
Backstab getting a 20 cost reduction... Might see a Dagger pve build focusing on the talent's Improved Backstab, Lethality, Opportunity, and dagger spec.
On the blizzcon test of bfd rogues got wf even tho they had poison on weapon.
Many of your concerns i think blizzard have thought of tbh. We dont know anything of the game yet.
Wille - Great guides. Where Warrior?. zug! zug!
i can see rogues being a go to pick for raid ranks. Probably being either the main or off tank.
If rogue stays how it is without major rework for tank support it will be a niche tank something you force a dps rogue to play when it makes a boss significantly easier. No raid will take a full time rogue tank when other tanks are getting significantly better.
Sure pugging as rogue tank feels stupid but you can play around single/duo target fight. Stealthily in and sapping one, while a Mage polys another and you focus down 2 mobs on average pull.
I love how so many players call classic easy yet they don't like the idea of making the game harder for yourself...
All I heard was I get to tank or play an outlaw rogue in a vanilla patch of wow
I imagine poison build for pvp and at 25 I don’t imagine poison damage falling off, but even if is used in pve you just gotta make tons of poisons and switch them out before fights hopefully bfd doesn’t have fights long enough to lose instant but if it does I imagine a quick macro would only have you out of the fight for 2-3 seconds. Idk I have never been on the same page as these raid elitists that are like “we won’t take these classes cause then it will take us an extra minute or 2 to complete the raid and that’s unacceptable!” So I don’t see reapplying being a huge issue 🤷🏼♀️
Rouge main here. I definitely feel that the 25 rogue tank will be more of an off tank, or more likely, working alongside other classes that can tank. In my experience, I would often grab mobs that escaped the tank or kill whatever the mage pulled off him before it can get to the them. I don't see us main tanking until we get cheap shot for the two points/stun opener, and possibly not ever if my warlock friend has anything to say about it.
I agree that the assassination runes seem like a weird fit with how poisons work. I am anticipating there being some total dud rune combos and some things that are unintentionally broken. I kind of hope they do some changes to the base game systems (poisons scaling, charges on poisons, and things for other classes like spell power or pet scaling).
Regardless, they have to start somewhere. I am here for it, and intend to enjoy this season as much as possible. I will main rogue/priest all the way through.
Rogue* I agree with offtank at absolute best.
@@vanillaicecoke They might break the game as we know it, but this could be something completely different.
I think a big critique I have with the rogue tank concept as it stands right now is a few things...
On one hand, I think with how much they want to parry for all the benefits it provides with counterattack, parry haste, etc there is a weird issue they run into where looking it up, if an attack happens, and you would've dodged and parried it.. which resolves first?
Its Dodge. Meaning that Evasion, and taking the 5% dodge chance talent actively gets in the way of you getting counter attacks. That just feels kind of bad imo, you use a cd, or you invest in the limited choices you have for mitigation talents as a rogue tank, and its contradicting a core design goal of your class.
The other main thing I don't really like is the idea that all the tools are related to different runes which eat up all your slots. It feels really restrictive to not let you explore other options and find fun interactions by figuring out if there's a good use for something like Shadow step, or any future runs they add without taking a major blow to your defensive abilities. Hopefully they don't need all 30% of that parry chance to be effective? but all the same, it feels kind of bad imho.
Plus yeah, the lack of any AoE with how combo points work is just... rough.
That half the classes will be able to tank shows SoD is gonna be super easy mode like retail.
Main gauche should be an aoe instead of having a target requirement, that fixes 2 problems, 1 gives them a point for blade dance to run in with, and 2 gives them some aoe threat
They have absolutely got to remove the poison charges for a poison build to work.
Always at the beginning when I learned about WoW on pirate servers, I had the feeling that the rogue was always a tank, such a weak class but with the best defenses, there was something strange.
I like the improvement of its defensive and new .
It’s not meant to be a legit tank throughout the instance. Likely just niche scenarios
They can fix combo points, just keep them on rogue instead on target.