It's way more fun to find people like the people in this video, meet them have them measure you and get a custom bike the way you like it in Reynolds 853 than it is to buy a carbon bike from a bike store IMO. Of course I would still buy a steel bike.
I have a Argos steel hybrid in the garage. Over Christmas I stripped the parts of it and converted it to a gravel bike. I must say it's a lovely bike to ride both on and off road even compared to my top end road bike. It simply absorbs and dissipates resonance from the road with ease. Geometry is nice..... Winner winner Great winter bike.... Great gravel bike...... And cheap too
Definitely. I'm about to build my ideal bike - a steel frame with up-to-date components. I made the transition from steel to aluminium and the result was horrendous: the ride was harsher, and zero compliance meant the bicycle bounced at the smallest road imperfection. Even with Mavic wheels and Continental tyres, both of which are known for their comfort. I can't afford GOOD carbon fibre, so the answer is yes - I'd still buy a steel bike. And I will.
There is misconception in this video about Youngs modulus and tensile strenght. What they are describing as youngs modulus(amount of force needed to permanently bend material) is called yield strenght and youngs modulus is perhaps better described as rigidity characteristics of material, specifically how much force is needed for specific area of material to deform it elastically in certain amount of distance. Iron and spring steel have basically same youngs modulus but yield strenght is very different because iron bends plastically with far less force than spring steel.
Came looking for this comment. Additionally, steel having a higher youngs modulus actually makes it stiffer if the shapes were the same. In the video, the guy also said you need more aluminum to achieve the same strength, and the extra material is what makes it stiffer. This is somewhat misleading, and depends what you mean by "more". I believe to achieve the same strength as steel, you can use less aluminum by weight, but the aluminum needs to be formed in larger diameter tubes to get the same strength, and the larger tubes are stiffer. Steel being formed in smaller diameter tubes usually weigh more than aluminum, but since the diameter is smaller, it's less stiff, and can absorb vibration better
As you say, anything between iron and the strongest steel have practically the same stiffness modulus. But interestingly all the metals used for bicycles have practically the same specific stiffness (dividing stiffness by density), which is part of the reason why there isn't a large difference in finished frame weights.
Yes there unfortunately is a lot of inaccurate or even plain wrong information in this video when it comes to the material properties part. I also suspect that the butted ends are for compensating for builders destroying the effects of heat treatment by soldering or welding.
I’ve been riding a steel road bike for 6 months now (a gap of 25 years since I last owned a steel bike). It’s so much fun, and has more personality than any other bike I have ridden.
For high level performance, steel may be outdated. But for the majority of road cyclists, steel is a great material. I’ve passed a lot of carbon fiber Treks on my Ritchey Road Logic. I know several cyclists with steel frame bikes that are under 18 pounds. Being a Clydesdale rider, 240 lbs, my Ritchey is still under 20lbs. I’ve tried a couple carbon fiber bikes. For all the talk about carbon being comfortable, the Ritchey is hands down the smoothest bike I’ve ever experienced. I’ll be riding that bike for decades.
Oh is that so? Glad to know what I shouldn't be worrying about! But seriously, if I want to hammer with a group because that's what I WANT to do then I guess I will think about performance. Worry? no. But yeah a steel bike built up well and light, ridden by the right person, will be able to hang with most riders. @@Andy_ATB
And the fact is that no cyclists with their "high level performance bikes," aka carbon fiber bikes, have been able to accomplish a Triple Crown Victory. Only two Triple Crown Victories in cycling history using steel bikes.
I'm 47 and ride a steel endurance bike. for me it's all about comfort and minimizing trauma to my body, not speed and minimizing weight. I see so many people on the road on carbon fiber racing frames and it's obvious from their level of riding ability that they're not actually doing races.
@@petesharp3640 The point is that worrying about performance can be quite costly and is often not worth it. Sometimes people will spend considerably more money on lighter components when in reality they'd be better off improving their performance on the bike by adjusting their diet or doing things to increase their overall fitness. I see a lot of people on the road with high end expensive carbon fiber bikes that I know I can ride circles around all day long on my heavier, less expensive steel bike. A fancy high end super bike doesn't mean jack if your fitness or riding ability is poor.
At 60 yo, I still ride my steel frame road bike from the 80's. The pleasure I get from dropping riders, who are half my age and who are riding the latest and greatest carbon fiber bikes, is awesome.
I have an old Marukin M-420 road bike that I purchased brand new in 1986. Its frame is made if Ishiwata ChroMo. I just had it refurbished again, and I'm LOVING IT! I'll keep that bike till I die. Oh, when I was younger, I used to get off dropping guys on their Cannondales... 😁😁
Last year I put 2000 miles on a Chumba Terlingua that I’d purchased cheap because it cracked at the bottom bracket. It was an easy fix with a welder and some paint. I used it in two local gravel races, then fitted road tires and did the Tour of the Moon on it. Honestly, the most versatile bike I own and one that I can actually repair if the frame gets damaged. If you throw out the “weight is the only thing that matters” mindset, steel suddenly becomes the ideal frame material for a host of reasons: ride quality, cost, reliability and repair ability.
And in many riders' cases (mine anyway), rider weight is much more of an issue than the bike's weight! I could lose more weight than a bike could weigh.
For my custom made travel bike I chose steel because when the frame would break somewhere in the Himalaya mountains any car mechanic or construction worker could weld/fix it. Carbon and alu you'd just throw away. My bike has literally travelled around the world (42 countries), it has its 30th birthday in February. I will buy it a bottle of grease for a present ...
@@sorenludwig3978 Steel certainly does suffer from fatigue but you have to stress it far more and for longer than other materials to see any signs of it.
I'm mostly riding a steel Mercian these days. It's quiet, rugged, and the performance is good enough for a recreational cyclist. I think steel is the best choice for most cyclists who aren't competitively racing.
I was much more willing to ride steel/titanium 10yrs ago when I was racing at a high level than today. Outside of the recyclability, carbon is more important to me now than it ever was. I don't care about the aerodynamic gains that happen to be there anyway. The ride quality is better and that's the most important thing for sitting on a bike
@WerdnaLiten everyone enjoys things differently. I for one, enjoy riding more when I'm not getting hammered by the road but also have a stiff bike at the same time.
Still rocking my Ritchey Road Logic for long rides. Had a Colnago Master X-Light along my journey too. I'm not an old guy shaking my fist at the clouds either, everyone should have a steel bike in their N+1 search.
One trend that was perhaps overlooked in the discussion of the future for steel bikes, was the growth of gravel bikes and adventure riding. While perhaps the future for steel in high performance road bikes is limited, I believe that the demands for rugged, comfortable and affordable frames for gravel riding favor steel as a material, especially for riders who want or need a bespoke frame. In my case for example, I have relatively long legs and short torso. I find that most factory frames don't fit my body proportions. My 2 custom steel gravel bikes are the most comfortable bikes I've ever owned --- and in over 60 years I've owned a lot of bikes,
Steel bikes comfortable because of weight. Inertia is a key. Try to load your AL bike with bikepacking and you would make it comfy. And opposite - light road bike is not comfortable.
My first serious road bike was a custom steel frame 52 years ago from Leader Cycles, Croydon. My most recent custom bike this past year is a gravel frame from Valentine Bikes, Asheville. Compared to the other bikes I have, it’s the best handling most comfortable of them all.
Recently bought a chromoly Transition TransAm hard tail mtb. First steel framed bike I've owned since buying my Raleigh Team 753 road bike in 1989 (loved that bicycle). I'm very pleased with it - how it feels while riding, its robustness, and yes, as long as I avoid getting it wet and resulting rust, it will probably last me the rest of my life (I'm 71, been riding bikes for some 60 years). I recently gave my Raleigh road bike to my grandson - he and the bike are the same age. He loves the thing - kind of a trendy retro icon for him and his friends. As to whether steel will ever make a comeback in being mass produced, it's my hope that its relatively cheaper cost will make it appealing to the non-racing cycling crowd, and that the big brands will again offer steel bicycles. Mate a steel frame with a good quality group set and wheels, and you've still got a great bike.
In November I bought a Ritchey Road Logic. Steel frame. Carbon fork. Bought Campagnolo Chorus groupset with rim brakes. All external cables. Aluminum wheels. I'm almost done building it up. Can't wait for that first ride. I do have one carbon fiber road bike, a Look 585. Another steel bike a Rivendell all rounder from 1994, and a steel Tommaso from around 1988. I do like the ride of the Look. Carbon fiber from around 2009.
Very sensible, down to earth comments on this video. You could nuance it a bit by saying that any of the common frame materials (steel, aluminum, carbon, titanium) can be made to give a wide range of desired ride quality depending on how it is used by the frame builder.
Exactly. Then it boils down to price, availability, etc. Just bought a secondhand titanium bicycle that I can't wait to see how the frame feels when riding. I wanted a titanium frame because of its durability. Don't have to worry about scratching the paint or having it rust either.
Currently restoring a 1949 Claud Butler steel bike, will be my first taste of steel once done. Looking forward to feeling the ride quality and the characteristics of it, especially after owning and riding more modern aluminium and carbon bikes where the comfort comes from super wide supple tubeless tyres.
I've got what might be one of the last hand-built Claud Butler frames, a steel MTB built bigger than my size. A bit stiff for the time, rough now, but consistent to control. Nice ride. A previous rider bent the rear derailleur and hanger over 50 degrees... slowly bent it back and all good. Last time it was in a bike shop the kid on the desk said "we managed to do the work, but next time it would be easier just to buy a new bike"... to which the owner of the shop leans around the corner and shouts "if you're getting ride of it I'll buy it" - maybe a bit of a sign considering all the other bikes he had the choice of.
I had a custom steel frame set made for me recently by DeKerf Cycles and it was a great experience. Custom geometry, paint, parts selection, etc. It was a pleasure and I didn't want the process to stop! Definitely a great way to go if you imagine yourself buying something of quality and keeping it for a long time! The bike feels amazing to ride, just as fast as anything else I've ever had and it is super comfortable.
Second hand steel bikes can be super cheap if you know what you're looking for. I picked up a sweet little Graham Weigh in Reynolds 853 with a full Campagnolo (Avanti) gruppo for the ludicrous price of £130 recently. Even after I've upgraded it to full Record 9 speed and sold the Avanti bits I'll still only be into it for about £300. Ride quality is just sublime :-)
Back in the 70s I had a Reynolds 530 double butted steel tube frame. It was like a jump into hyperspace, after my old Schwinn. Loved it. Miss it. Good times!!!
This guy knows his stuff. Great interview. I'd love a custom built steel frame one day with the best steel. Being able to repair your frame is of utmost importance. I hate that other types of frames are basically throwaways.
I just bought a Ritchey Outback. Sweet ride, looks great - everybody who sees it asks about it - I love it. I have 10 road bikes in my garage - one is carbon, two are titanium, one is aluminium, the rest are steel.
I own two steel bikes, one a custom road/gravel/endurance frame from Vetta (Padova) and the other a Salsa Fargo. Perfect bikes for each purpose. Then I have my titanium foldable from Vello. Each has its use and I am super happy with each!
My steel bianchi is a beast. Its gotten me through along of long rides over the years. I would like to look at some other materials for perhaps some racing but having the driverrain comparable to newer bikes in terms of range I don't see how that bike would ever fall out of being my flagship.
Alex is the flag bearer for bro science: interrupting the builder, stepping in with helpful insights. A wealth of information, for sure, so thank you, mr Burford.
I dont think the Video quite gets to the heart of why steel is such a good material for bikes, particularly for non-performance use, and the history and custom culture around the specialist market
Alex is not the right person for that video, nor any of the other GCN presenters either really! John Cannings might know a bit more! I started racing on a steel frame 1974 as it was the only material available1 Had a few custom made frames , sadly no more!
Having started racing in the 70's, before any of the presenters were born, steel was all that was available. You rode the winter months on a fixed wheel with saddlebag, usually and old road bike, down graded to winter bike! But always steel!
Excellent, and one of the most technically interesting videos on GCN. I’ve owned several aluminum, titanium, and carbon bikes, but never a steel bike (other than a Schwinn Jaguar bike as a kid). Being a recreational rider rather than a racer, this video causes me to wish for a steel bike rather than having my high-end carbon bike.
Plenty on the 2nd hand market. As the builder says the strength comfort and longevity are massive plus factors . Plus can be repaired more easily or added braze on's required etc. both my road bikes are 531 and 20 years old plus .
For 95% of journeys I use a 1990s fully rigid 26 inch wheel MTB with v brakes, a single sprocket at the back and a rack at the front for hauling. It's beautiful I love it. So simple, so solid, so enjoyable to ride. I don't want anything else.
Yes, love steel bikes. I've so far build two. One vintage Bianchi from early 90's and last year I built a modern endurance rim brake with a SRAM Rival groupset. This winter, I'm using a old steel frameset (stripping + repainting) to be my indoor trainer.
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I'm willing to bet that, considering the scarcity of more and more materials and the environmental cost to make carbon fiber and aluminium bicycles, steel frames will make a come back.
I have a pair of custom made steel frames (and a bunch of others). They fit my body and their purpose perfectly. I can’t get this level of fit and customization in any other material except Ti (and that comes at a serious price).
I've had 3 steel bikes and still own 2. Wish I still had the 3rd if I'm honest. Steel frames feel warm to ride, my mtb is so smooth compared to my other aluminium ones. It's just a much nicer ride. Same with my gravel bike. I'd love to ride / own something made of 953 at some point
Steel is real and modern! I just built my own frame on a workshop at bigforrest frameworks. Modern Components, Discbreak. Smooth riding and very fast!😁
Steel frame is perfect for commuter bike. It’s comfortable, durable, affordable, practical and most importantly, stylish. I wear suits in office and steel frame blends really well with the fashion. It can even carry heavy attachments such as a child seat. In terms of versatility, steel frame is truly the one bike to rule them all. Steel frame was my choice for the first bike I’m still using and I’d happily recommend the same to anyone interested in cycling!
Steel frames are the most practical for the same reasons that a Toyota is more practical than a Ferrari. Marginal gains in performance come at the expense of everything else. I will say, though, it's a lot easier to find an affordable aluminum bike when buying new compared to buying steel.
@@veganpotterthevegando that then, I wouldn't trust used carbon when I don't know what's happened to it. Not sure how you could look at something like a Ritte Phantom and go "yeah I'll have a 105 equipped Giant TCR with a load of wear instead".
I love a steel commuter, especially old 90s mtbs with rack mounts. The only minor issue is rust if you ride it through winter. You have to stay on top of the rust proofing.
Most bike channels do comparisons of bike frame materials (e.g. steel, titanium, aluminium, carbon) but overlook the fact that if you are buying a high end steel or titanium bike, most likely it is being built today (2023) as a custom geometry, with choice of components and tubesets. Even if the geometry is only slightly different from stock, it can still make a palpable difference to the rider. This is why I prefer steel over carbon. The best fit and handling is more important than having the stiffest or lightest material bike frame. There are many custom bike builders building MODERN design steel bikes for $7k-$10K and for these buyers, weight or pro brand means nothing, as they understand why they don't want a mass-produced bike. What's more, the selection of tubes, dropouts etc. and tools continues to improve. For all of these reasons, steel bikes are not irrelevant and won't be for sometime.
I have a Bianchi Boron steel bike (extra strong steel alloy including carbon) - built in 1998 with carbon forks based on the Mega Pro XL bike used by Marco Pantani
I had a vintage 1982 Olmo Competition and that bike was so nice to ride. It was so buttery smooth. It led me to get a custom steel Speedvagen which too rides so nicely. Aside from the weight steel frames feel smoother than my carbon bikes. It's a different feeling which is more grounded than carbon bikes that seem to float across the road. For a nice cruising or commuting bike, steel is the way to go. Plus, it takes it back to fine craftsmanship of the past. I've cycled through many carbon bikes but my steel Speedvagen is my one forever bike.
I have 6 steel bikes; road, gravel, SS, mtb. They’re heavier for sure but ride feel is totally different. Something that stands out if you’re riding back to back 200km days bike packing. Equally more robust and dependable for such rides. Mtb wise they’re more comfortable… I can’t explain it more than that. I’m riding for the enjoyment of riding, not looking to be the fastest or racing, then I’d care more about weight etc 🥳
I have 4 bikes, all steel frames. I’m curious about the other frame materials, especially carbon, since they’re so popular now. But i love the look of the classic steel frame with rim brakes and thin wheels. They look fast and light, whereas the modern carbon road bike looks so heavy and clumsy. I know the modern carbon bikes are better in most ways, but it feels good to be riding something beautiful.
I refurbed an old steel frame road bike as my winter bike, it's great to ride, definitely heavier and slower but when the Spring comes and I so enjoy the carbon fibre. Vive la difference!
Interesting subject and video. I own a steel Shand Stooshie in gravel bike spec, Zipp 303s wheels, 38mm tubeless tyres Di2 GRX and Rockshox gravel 40mm travel fork. Think this gives me the best combination of modern technology along with the traditional bike heritage of the bike frame.
One thing i will say about steal frames is the different types of customization you come across, steal certainly does give you a different ride quality & is great if not one of the best for touring on, you can also feel the difference between frames builds to
Yes, I would still buy a steel bike, if I had too. Seems the bike I purchased in April of 1980, Fuji S12S, SN FK924681 is still going strong though, so to answer the other question, yes, steel can be for life. I originally bought it to get around my college campus, fun, and exercise. Long rides on the weekend, shorter ones during the week after classes. Over the years, I have replaced components as they wear out, except the seat, I bought that because I thought it would be more comfortable than the leather seat, which I still have, and it is. According to my Garmin, I put almost 2,000 miles on this past year, and about 2,200 last year. I think around 1,800 the year before. Work and weather play into how many miles I'm able to enjoy. I have a recent photo, but I do not know how to add it here. Other than replacing parts, I have not "restored" or done anything else to the bike. I do hose it down after a ride with water, if needed, but I do not go crazy cleaning it or anything.
Got a custom made steel gravel bike from Project 12 bikes in the Netherlands and I love it. I am one of the people who ride for pleasure and fitness but I do follow my performance and I don't really notice the pound or two greater weight vs. carbon.
I got back into cycling in 2023 after years of being an avid motorcyclist, and I chose a Soma Rush in Tange Prestige steel (comparable to Reynolds 631) -- beautiful bike and rides exactly as well as I want on a 1.75 mile commute with some pretty gnarly urban pavement! I'm not against alloy, carbon, nor titanium, for sure, but for my needs a good simple steel frame fits better than anything else
As a rider of a carbon bike for the last nine years, this winter I decided to ride my old steel bike that had been left unloved in my shed for the past thirty fives years plus, and only swapping the twenty seven wheels for some modern alloy seven hundred wheels and chain.... and yes the last two months have been great despite it being double the weight of my carbon bike plus higher gearing, then Boxing Day I decided to ride my carbon road bike, and it felt incredibly harder on the rider feel back on my old body, but still faster by only five minutes per hour on a three hour winter ride... so a modern steel bike seems like the future, maybe ?
Living in places that salt the road a lot in the winter, steel isn't something I wanna ride in the winter. Carbon, titanium or stainless steel are the only frame materials I want for that
I restored my 1998, 4130 Chrome-moly Gary Fisher mountain bike. I use it to commute into work occasionally, because it has rack mounts. My other bikes don't have rack mounts. My local multi-use path is a bit rough, and I have to say, the 2" slicks, steel frame and primitive Rockshox DART fork (not original) make the path feel like freshly paved asphalt. Well, almost! The point is, I purchased the Gary Fisher 25 years ago-and it is still a very serviceable, enjoyable bike. If you're not racing, a high-quality steel bike makes sense. A high-quality steel bike can easily last 20+ years. I'm currently looking at a Ribble Gravel 725, Norco Search, and a Niner SIR 9. Two to three thousand dollars for a bike which does not need to be replaced in a few years is really not a lot of money. To be fair, my 12 year old aluminum Synapse is still going strong. But steel does a better job at killing the "buzz" you can feel on a bike, in my opinion.
Fascinating look into the making of a custom steel frame. Explaining the process & the characteristics of a steel frame was very educational. Ride quality seems to be inherent in a steel frame depending on the type & thickness of the metal. I would think that the majority of recreational riders would prefer ride comfort over speed.
I've owned a variety of different material bikes over the last 70 years & my only long time keeper is a 15 year old KHS Solo-One SE 29er hardtail single speed, which has stood up to a lot of hard bush treks, sand dune sorties & everyday road riding. The proportions are great & the "feel" of the steel triple butted made in USA frame is magic. Go steel!
For me, fit comes first, and I can get a steel frame made to my dimensions and made to the flex my joints prefer. Plus, it’s easier to get customizations like built-in lighting and racks. Finally, after owning all kinds of forks, I still like the feel of tapered steel blades the best.
The greatest bonus of 531 is it can be 'cold set'. this means the rear triangle could be widened from 126mm to 130mm. 753 couldn't. Bend it too much and it cracked. Early 120mm OLN frames could be taken out to 126mm.
6 months ago I was offered a great deal on a new but retro Creme Echo Solo. It is a fair bit slower and about 4 kg heavier than my modern road bike, but it's more comfortable, gives me more confidence with a superior ride feel and I love the way it looks and rides. Last month I did my hardest ride ever on it, a 140km alpine ride including the Stelvio pass. And it was absolutely awesome. I'm selling my modern road bike now.
Being an older guy. I love the sleek thin lines of a Steel Bicycle. As far as ride quality goes in todays day and age. Plus Tubless tires. Carbons and Aluminum frame ride quality can be very good. But as a frame in its own. The springy flex of a steel frame is hard to beat. Owning all those materials in bicycle frames. I still love my Steels the most.
I've had a Chas Roberts MTB for 32 years and a Dave Lloyd triathlon bike for 30 years; it wasn't until 3 or 4 years ago that I realised they're Chas & Dave...
I use an old 531 steel, Nigel Dean frame with a random selection of modern bits as my turbo trainer bike. No penalty for aero or weight, but additional flex for comfort.
I love steel. As to weight, my steel Mondonico with Campagnolo Nucleon wheels and Super Record weighed in at 8kg in the early 2000s. And that was the Futura Leggero, the heaviest model he made. I’ve read that the Spirit model was 500g lighter. So you know, I am not a steel snob - I have an S-Works Diverge and I love it… but I hate that it’s disposable. I’ve already worn one of them out. It was a 2015 “S-Works” Diverge (they didn’t label them S-Works that year, but it came with all S-Works parts including cranks, bars, stem, and seat post were S-Works.). That first Diverge died when the dropouts dropped out. That will never happen to a steel frame.
Steel frames would probably still be the standard for affordable bikes if it weren't cheaper for the industry to mass produce and easier to mass market aluminium frames.
Ultra cheap alloy bikes sometimes come with a steel fork because alloy would be too stiff, and carbon is more expensive. Steel as a material once processed ready for tubing is still a bit more expensive than aluminium. There are a couple of small factors that add up to alloy frames being cheaper to produce.
Over the years I have owned a bike made from every frame material and I have to say that carbon fiber is by far the best. That being said, several years ago I spent a week working with a master frame builder and fabricated my own steel frame out of Columbus Foco tubing, which is an absolute dream to ride and, for me, far superior to titanium and carbon fiber. Excellent video.
I without a doubt prefer steel because of the ride feel. While carbon fiber is amazing, steel feels alive to ride. Steel is real. I know it's cliché, but it says it all.
I've just completely overhauled my 34 year old Claud Butler Dalesman (off-the-peg Reynolds 531 tourer)... it rides as well as the day I bought it, and I see no reason why it shouldn't go on for an other 34 years+. That's value for money!
I have a factory made steel frame (Salsa Fargo) onto which I transferred all the parts from a MTB. So creating a flat bar gravel bike in 2011. It has served me well. It had its own little holiday in France between being stolen and recovered by French policen a year later. Still my favourite bike that I ride most days. Worst frame feature is the derailleur hanger as part of frame. It has been bent and replacement is a significant frame repair I think, not just buying and fitting a new hanger. I'm a believer in factory frames. Handmade is more risly unless you really know your stuff to be sure the builder is doing it correctly.
I own a Norco Search Steel bike made from a Reynolds 725s for AUD$2,000. I chose it because of the 'steel is real' ethos, great blue paint, but most of all, the superb value-for-money components (it came with GRX 20 speed groupset, hydraulic disc brakes, super light wtb rims). In Australia, for $2k, you'd get an aluminium/carbon with entry level Claris, Sora components or Microshift. I've since done a 100k Brisbane to Gold Coast and commute 3 days a week, plus weekend rides. I've also added some aero Pro-lite rims and can match carbon-led pelotons around the Brisbane areas. Its range of gears are superb and I highly recommend the ride.
I was lucky/smart enough to buy a customer steel frame from one for North America's best frame builders, Sam Whittingham of Naked bikes back in 2011. Since then I've travelled with it in three continents and amassed many miles AND smiles. Best money I've ever spent. Oh and Alex and Oli Super nice it!
I’ve restored a few steel bikes… to catalog image/materials. But currently working on a steel restro-mod with modern gearing, shifting, and some carbon parts.
@GCN Great video, thanks. I work in engineering so understand exactly what Paul was saying about the material properties and often find myself wondering why we don't see more steel frames what with the availability of the high UTS tube sets that are now available. I'm borrowing a steel frame to ride following a crash that damaged my current carbon one and I can't wait to try it.
Simple - because the gullible bike buying public want to copy the pros, and think carbon is the only material for a bike. One day they'll wake up and realise......
I own a steel gravel bike and would always go back for another steel bike for such type of cycling. Yes its heavier than Carbon but it can handle the „abuse“ better than a carbon frame. Plus it flexes a bit more and adds comfort.
I started racing on a stiff Aluminum frame in 1985, and rode it until 1995 when I changed to a steel Bianchi, that I raced on until I changed back to Aluminum in 2000. In 2002, I changed back to a steel frame with .5mm tubes, and raced on that bike until 2017, when I retired from racing. I still ride the bike I raced on from 2002 to 2017, but only ride a few thousand miles a year now.
Retired my 98 Peugeot columbus last year, got older and not as flexible so i took a massive leap forward in tech to an aluminium canyon. Lovely ride, doesnt flex. But that means i feel more. Ill go back to steel after this one.
I have an old full suspension 26 inch Mountain Bike frame that is made of steel me and my younger broke it's fork and sitting in our garage for over 20 years and we decided to clean it up and revive it and modify it so that I could mount a disk brakes on the rear and it runs really good like brand new. Although It took sometime to find a fork with disk brake adapter, I loved it even if it's a heavy bike atleast it's like a tank of the bicycle world. Like you can take alot of beating like no to less worries on any road conditions.
A fine steel is hard to beat- I love my Reynolds 853 Niner RLT 9 gravel bike, my Reynolds 725 Ribble Urban 725s single speed, and my Surly Krampus XC/bike packing rig- ultra smooth ride quality, tough as nails, and fun as hell to ride…..
I see many parallels btwn steel bikes and vinyl records. We're entering into the 'record collecting' phase for steel bikes right now. Steel frames are still being made, however, it's more of a niche in the industry.. Equivelent to record companies pressing vinyl during the Compact Disc era of music. There are still people out there who want steel frames, but the greater industry has moved in a different direction. Which leads me to believe that steel frames, like vinyl records, will never fully go away. There is a demand at the moment for classic steel frames from the 70s, 80s, & 90s and no shortage of forgotten, discarded, or storage bound frames and parts to be discovered, recycled and resuscitated by a new generation of cyclists (record collectors). Purists looking for the undeniable look and feel of steel are much like the DJs and music nerds who yearned for the sound and feel of vinyl, eventually leading to music industry (major and independent lables) returning to vinyl production. All of that to say.. I see a resurgence of steel frame production in the not too distant future. 😎🤙🏼
I train on the road on 1983 Ishiwata 019 tube set frame. Not the lightest but still a lovely bike to ride. I still race on 1986 Columbus SLX frame, gorgeous! Again not the lightest but a very lively frame to race on. Up to this point, I have only ridden steel bikes. Let us be realistic. As most of us are not elite level cyclists, it is mostly about the engine. However, the more comfortable a bike is to ride, the more likely you are to ride it, and that must be a good thing. Time alone will tell how many carbon frames are still viable after 40 years of use - not abuse or neglect!
I have a Surly Karate Monkey for bikepacking/mtb and just finished building a Surly Bridge Club drop bar for commuting/gravel/brewery/cafe rides. I wouldn't go back to mass-produced bikes now, I am loving the ride quality of the Surlys.
Young’s modulus isn’t the yield strength like the interviewee says, where the material undergoes plastic deformation beyond that point (even that is an approximate definition)
Yes. I have a Condor Posta fixed wheel bike. It is extremely comfortable to ride, more so than my titanium bike or my old aluminium frame. Ive never had any problems with rust despite it spending 15 years commuting in heavy rain. I’ve never had or wanted a carbon frame but I’d be concerned that a crash would require extensive checking to make sure it was still ok. There’s also the carbon footprint issue of course.
Oh dear. I'm afraid Paul has got his terms confused. What Paul called "Youngs modulus" is actually the yield strength (ie when further loading produces permanent deformation). "Youngs modulus" is actually the measure of how much a material deforms as a load is applied within the elastic limit (another name for yield strength). Putting the scientific nerdiness aside, he is quite right that custom bike frames are almost exclusively steel. I ride steel, not because I particularly like it, but because I'm old (and hopefully going to get older) and my hip flexibility is no longer sufficient to get a leg over the saddle as you need to for a cross bar bike. So I need a step through. I dearly wish for a lighter bike (I live in a hilly area) but with this "leg over" limitation aluminium frames are not that much lighter and other materials not realistically available. I did reach out to a Ti frame builder but got no response. I blame the UCI. If it didn't insist on a top tube cross bar we might well have something like the Giant MCR (I think I got that right?) or a road version of the Lotus bike that we could enjoy. Damn the UCI!
I have a custom steel frame that was made for me in the late 90s, built up as what we would call a gravel bike today, but running MTB wheels... which is now obsolete thanks to the demise of 26inch wheels. It was a dream to ride, but a bit of a handful on the rough stuff. When going custom, it is sometimes the only way to get something unusual. However, make sure that you are not going down a path that only you will follow and you don't end up with a frame that is unusable twenty years later. Saying that, I have resto-modded a steel frame road bike from 1987. It was super easy to change the drop outs with a simple TIG weld and with a cold set of the frame, it went from 126mm spacing to 135mm spacing, with no damage or risk of fracture. You cannot do that with a carbon or aluminium frame. Also, steel has a ride feel that speaks to the rider, there is a joy in my steel frames that I don't feel on my aluminium framed bikes. Have any of you tried magnesium bikes? I always liked the look of the old Kirks, but I recall that they sadly had an issue with reliability. I do believe that Carerra had a magnesium tube frame out for a while, but have no idea how well that lasted.
Steel's Young's modulus is about 3 times of aluminum's. Steel is stiffer than aluminum. Steel's fatigue limit is almost non-existent. The material characteristics allow the frame to flex around and no worries. However, when aluminum meets the fatigue limit, it will crack (fail). The aluminum frame design has to focus on being stiff to decrease the risk of failing.
Had my (custom) winter and race Brian Rourkes since the mid 90’s, 531c and 653 respectively. I look like a real old timer (despite being a mere 48) when I’m out but have seen no reason to change as I don’t think anything could be considered an upgrade!
Would you still buy a steel bike? Let us know in the comments 👇
I just did. Ritchey outback
It's way more fun to find people like the people in this video, meet them have them measure you and get a custom bike the way you like it in Reynolds 853 than it is to buy a carbon bike from a bike store IMO. Of course I would still buy a steel bike.
I have a Argos steel hybrid in the garage.
Over Christmas I stripped the parts of it and converted it to a gravel bike.
I must say it's a lovely bike to ride both on and off road even compared to my top end road bike.
It simply absorbs and dissipates resonance from the road with ease.
Geometry is nice..... Winner winner
Great winter bike....
Great gravel bike......
And cheap too
Definitely. I'm about to build my ideal bike - a steel frame with up-to-date components. I made the transition from steel to aluminium and the result was horrendous: the ride was harsher, and zero compliance meant the bicycle bounced at the smallest road imperfection. Even with Mavic wheels and Continental tyres, both of which are known for their comfort. I can't afford GOOD carbon fibre, so the answer is yes - I'd still buy a steel bike. And I will.
Absolutely. I have a Genesis Equilibrium with Reynolds 725 tubing. Superb ride.
Forever real, recycleable and sustainable. Still fast, handmade, lovely to ride, doesn't go to landfill...so many pluses!!!
there is something so special about the feel of riding a steel bike!
The sustainability aspect is a good reason why I could see steel making more of a comeback
A carbon frame is also sustainable: You burn a tree to get carbon. And at the end of the frame's life you bury itin the ground: ashes to ashes ... ;-)
@@Jacob99174hi-tens steel is… lol!
Rusts.
There is misconception in this video about Youngs modulus and tensile strenght. What they are describing as youngs modulus(amount of force needed to permanently bend material) is called yield strenght and youngs modulus is perhaps better described as rigidity characteristics of material, specifically how much force is needed for specific area of material to deform it elastically in certain amount of distance. Iron and spring steel have basically same youngs modulus but yield strenght is very different because iron bends plastically with far less force than spring steel.
Was looking for that comment, I agree with you
Came looking for this comment. Additionally, steel having a higher youngs modulus actually makes it stiffer if the shapes were the same. In the video, the guy also said you need more aluminum to achieve the same strength, and the extra material is what makes it stiffer. This is somewhat misleading, and depends what you mean by "more". I believe to achieve the same strength as steel, you can use less aluminum by weight, but the aluminum needs to be formed in larger diameter tubes to get the same strength, and the larger tubes are stiffer. Steel being formed in smaller diameter tubes usually weigh more than aluminum, but since the diameter is smaller, it's less stiff, and can absorb vibration better
As you say, anything between iron and the strongest steel have practically the same stiffness modulus. But interestingly all the metals used for bicycles have practically the same specific stiffness (dividing stiffness by density), which is part of the reason why there isn't a large difference in finished frame weights.
Also known as elastic deformation VS plastic deformation.
Yes there unfortunately is a lot of inaccurate or even plain wrong information in this video when it comes to the material properties part. I also suspect that the butted ends are for compensating for builders destroying the effects of heat treatment by soldering or welding.
I’ve been riding a steel road bike for 6 months now (a gap of 25 years since I last owned a steel bike). It’s so much fun, and has more personality than any other bike I have ridden.
For high level performance, steel may be outdated. But for the majority of road cyclists, steel is a great material. I’ve passed a lot of carbon fiber Treks on my Ritchey Road Logic. I know several cyclists with steel frame bikes that are under 18 pounds. Being a Clydesdale rider, 240 lbs, my Ritchey is still under 20lbs. I’ve tried a couple carbon fiber bikes. For all the talk about carbon being comfortable, the Ritchey is hands down the smoothest bike I’ve ever experienced. I’ll be riding that bike for decades.
Most cyclists shouldn't be worrying about performance.......
Oh is that so? Glad to know what I shouldn't be worrying about! But seriously, if I want to hammer with a group because that's what I WANT to do then I guess I will think about performance. Worry? no. But yeah a steel bike built up well and light, ridden by the right person, will be able to hang with most riders. @@Andy_ATB
And the fact is that no cyclists with their "high level performance bikes," aka carbon fiber bikes, have been able to accomplish a Triple Crown Victory. Only two Triple Crown Victories in cycling history using steel bikes.
I'm 47 and ride a steel endurance bike. for me it's all about comfort and minimizing trauma to my body, not speed and minimizing weight. I see so many people on the road on carbon fiber racing frames and it's obvious from their level of riding ability that they're not actually doing races.
@@petesharp3640 The point is that worrying about performance can be quite costly and is often not worth it. Sometimes people will spend considerably more money on lighter components when in reality they'd be better off improving their performance on the bike by adjusting their diet or doing things to increase their overall fitness. I see a lot of people on the road with high end expensive carbon fiber bikes that I know I can ride circles around all day long on my heavier, less expensive steel bike. A fancy high end super bike doesn't mean jack if your fitness or riding ability is poor.
At 60 yo, I still ride my steel frame road bike from the 80's. The pleasure I get from dropping riders, who are half my age and who are riding the latest and greatest carbon fiber bikes, is awesome.
I NEVER want to be the old guy with the shaved legs on a $15K carbon gizmo with electric shifters. Since I'm 69 now, I guess I'm locked in.
I have an old Marukin M-420 road bike that I purchased brand new in 1986. Its frame is made if Ishiwata ChroMo. I just had it refurbished again, and I'm LOVING IT! I'll keep that bike till I die. Oh, when I was younger, I used to get off dropping guys on their Cannondales... 😁😁
Last year I put 2000 miles on a Chumba Terlingua that I’d purchased cheap because it cracked at the bottom bracket. It was an easy fix with a welder and some paint. I used it in two local gravel races, then fitted road tires and did the Tour of the Moon on it. Honestly, the most versatile bike I own and one that I can actually repair if the frame gets damaged. If you throw out the “weight is the only thing that matters” mindset, steel suddenly becomes the ideal frame material for a host of reasons: ride quality, cost, reliability and repair ability.
And in many riders' cases (mine anyway), rider weight is much more of an issue than the bike's weight! I could lose more weight than a bike could weigh.
My last road bike was Reynolds steel. It was awesome. Highly recommend
For my custom made travel bike I chose steel because when the frame would break somewhere in the Himalaya mountains any car mechanic or construction worker could weld/fix it. Carbon and alu you'd just throw away.
My bike has literally travelled around the world (42 countries), it has its 30th birthday in February. I will buy it a bottle of grease for a present ...
youre steel frame will not break, steel has no fatique and you need realy high forces to crack it.
@@sorenludwig3978 Steel certainly does suffer from fatigue but you have to stress it far more and for longer than other materials to see any signs of it.
Gr8 story
@@sorenludwig3978 steel is only outdone by aluminum for its less than stellar fatigue properties
@@stevegoodfellow3423 steel has worse fatigue properties than everything but aluminum.
I'm mostly riding a steel Mercian these days. It's quiet, rugged, and the performance is good enough for a recreational cyclist. I think steel is the best choice for most cyclists who aren't competitively racing.
I was much more willing to ride steel/titanium 10yrs ago when I was racing at a high level than today. Outside of the recyclability, carbon is more important to me now than it ever was. I don't care about the aerodynamic gains that happen to be there anyway. The ride quality is better and that's the most important thing for sitting on a bike
@@veganpottertheveganride quality is down to frame design, not material.
Agree - too many cyclists want to copy the pros. Why? Just get out and enjoy the ride.....be more like Jack, not Jonas.
@@chetmanley1885 it's both. But carbon allows significantly more design freedom while keeping a bike efficient and comfortable
@WerdnaLiten everyone enjoys things differently. I for one, enjoy riding more when I'm not getting hammered by the road but also have a stiff bike at the same time.
Still rocking my Ritchey Road Logic for long rides. Had a Colnago Master X-Light along my journey too. I'm not an old guy shaking my fist at the clouds either, everyone should have a steel bike in their N+1 search.
One trend that was perhaps overlooked in the discussion of the future for steel bikes, was the growth of gravel bikes and adventure riding. While perhaps the future for steel in high performance road bikes is limited, I believe that the demands for rugged, comfortable and affordable frames for gravel riding favor steel as a material, especially for riders who want or need a bespoke frame. In my case for example, I have relatively long legs and short torso. I find that most factory frames don't fit my body proportions. My 2 custom steel gravel bikes are the most comfortable bikes I've ever owned --- and in over 60 years I've owned a lot of bikes,
Steel bikes comfortable because of weight. Inertia is a key. Try to load your AL bike with bikepacking and you would make it comfy. And opposite - light road bike is not comfortable.
My first serious road bike was a custom steel frame 52 years ago from Leader Cycles, Croydon. My most recent custom bike this past year is a gravel frame from Valentine Bikes, Asheville. Compared to the other bikes I have, it’s the best handling most comfortable of them all.
Recently bought a chromoly Transition TransAm hard tail mtb. First steel framed bike I've owned since buying my Raleigh Team 753 road bike in 1989 (loved that bicycle). I'm very pleased with it - how it feels while riding, its robustness, and yes, as long as I avoid getting it wet and resulting rust, it will probably last me the rest of my life (I'm 71, been riding bikes for some 60 years). I recently gave my Raleigh road bike to my grandson - he and the bike are the same age. He loves the thing - kind of a trendy retro icon for him and his friends. As to whether steel will ever make a comeback in being mass produced, it's my hope that its relatively cheaper cost will make it appealing to the non-racing cycling crowd, and that the big brands will again offer steel bicycles. Mate a steel frame with a good quality group set and wheels, and you've still got a great bike.
In November I bought a Ritchey Road Logic. Steel frame. Carbon fork. Bought Campagnolo Chorus groupset with rim brakes. All external cables. Aluminum wheels. I'm almost done building it up. Can't wait for that first ride. I do have one carbon fiber road bike, a Look 585. Another steel bike a Rivendell all rounder from 1994, and a steel Tommaso from around 1988. I do like the ride of the Look. Carbon fiber from around 2009.
Very sensible, down to earth comments on this video. You could nuance it a bit by saying that any of the common frame materials (steel, aluminum, carbon, titanium) can be made to give a wide range of desired ride quality depending on how it is used by the frame builder.
Exactly. Then it boils down to price, availability, etc. Just bought a secondhand titanium bicycle that I can't wait to see how the frame feels when riding. I wanted a titanium frame because of its durability. Don't have to worry about scratching the paint or having it rust either.
Currently restoring a 1949 Claud Butler steel bike, will be my first taste of steel once done. Looking forward to feeling the ride quality and the characteristics of it, especially after owning and riding more modern aluminium and carbon bikes where the comfort comes from super wide supple tubeless tyres.
Depends on the frame. My Domane, a Synapse and others will be a better ride than any steel bike with apples to apples wheels and tires on them.
I've got what might be one of the last hand-built Claud Butler frames, a steel MTB built bigger than my size.
A bit stiff for the time, rough now, but consistent to control. Nice ride.
A previous rider bent the rear derailleur and hanger over 50 degrees... slowly bent it back and all good.
Last time it was in a bike shop the kid on the desk said "we managed to do the work, but next time it would be easier just to buy a new bike"... to which the owner of the shop leans around the corner and shouts "if you're getting ride of it I'll buy it" - maybe a bit of a sign considering all the other bikes he had the choice of.
I had a custom steel frame set made for me recently by DeKerf Cycles and it was a great experience. Custom geometry, paint, parts selection, etc. It was a pleasure and I didn't want the process to stop! Definitely a great way to go if you imagine yourself buying something of quality and keeping it for a long time! The bike feels amazing to ride, just as fast as anything else I've ever had and it is super comfortable.
Second hand steel bikes can be super cheap if you know what you're looking for. I picked up a sweet little Graham Weigh in Reynolds 853 with a full Campagnolo (Avanti) gruppo for the ludicrous price of £130 recently. Even after I've upgraded it to full Record 9 speed and sold the Avanti bits I'll still only be into it for about £300. Ride quality is just sublime :-)
Ebay?
Back in the 70s I had a Reynolds 530 double butted steel tube frame. It was like a jump into hyperspace, after my old Schwinn. Loved it. Miss it. Good times!!!
This guy knows his stuff. Great interview.
I'd love a custom built steel frame one day with the best steel. Being able to repair your frame is of utmost importance. I hate that other types of frames are basically throwaways.
I just bought a Ritchey Outback. Sweet ride, looks great - everybody who sees it asks about it - I love it.
I have 10 road bikes in my garage - one is carbon, two are titanium, one is aluminium, the rest are steel.
I own two steel bikes, one a custom road/gravel/endurance frame from Vetta (Padova) and the other a Salsa Fargo. Perfect bikes for each purpose. Then I have my titanium foldable from Vello. Each has its use and I am super happy with each!
Finally! An informative video from GCN just like the good ol’ days. Thank you ❤
My steel bianchi is a beast. Its gotten me through along of long rides over the years. I would like to look at some other materials for perhaps some racing but having the driverrain comparable to newer bikes in terms of range I don't see how that bike would ever fall out of being my flagship.
Alex is the flag bearer for bro science: interrupting the builder, stepping in with helpful insights. A wealth of information, for sure, so thank you, mr Burford.
I dont think the Video quite gets to the heart of why steel is such a good material for bikes, particularly for non-performance use, and the history and custom culture around the specialist market
Alex is not the right person for that video, nor any of the other GCN presenters either really! John Cannings might know a bit more! I started racing on a steel frame 1974 as it was the only material available1 Had a few custom made frames , sadly no more!
That is a kind way of putting what is wrong with this video.
Having started racing in the 70's, before any of the presenters were born, steel was all that was available. You rode the winter months on a fixed wheel with saddlebag, usually and old road bike, down graded to winter bike! But always steel!
Excellent, and one of the most technically interesting videos on GCN. I’ve owned several aluminum, titanium, and carbon bikes, but never a steel bike (other than a Schwinn Jaguar bike as a kid). Being a recreational rider rather than a racer, this video causes me to wish for a steel bike rather than having my high-end carbon bike.
I have just completed a steel build with a Velo Orange “Pass Hunter” steel frame and fork. Came in at a respectable 21 lbs without pedals.
Plenty on the 2nd hand market. As the builder says the strength comfort and longevity are massive plus factors . Plus can be repaired more easily or added braze on's required etc. both my road bikes are 531 and 20 years old plus .
For 95% of journeys I use a 1990s fully rigid 26 inch wheel MTB with v brakes, a single sprocket at the back and a rack at the front for hauling. It's beautiful I love it. So simple, so solid, so enjoyable to ride. I don't want anything else.
Yes, love steel bikes. I've so far build two. One vintage Bianchi from early 90's and last year I built a modern endurance rim brake with a SRAM Rival groupset. This winter, I'm using a old steel frameset (stripping + repainting) to be my indoor trainer.
I'm willing to bet that, considering the scarcity of more and more materials and the environmental cost to make carbon fiber and aluminium bicycles, steel frames will make a come back.
I have a pair of custom made steel frames (and a bunch of others). They fit my body and their purpose perfectly.
I can’t get this level of fit and customization in any other material except Ti (and that comes at a serious price).
I've had 3 steel bikes and still own 2. Wish I still had the 3rd if I'm honest. Steel frames feel warm to ride, my mtb is so smooth compared to my other aluminium ones. It's just a much nicer ride. Same with my gravel bike. I'd love to ride / own something made of 953 at some point
Steel is real and modern! I just built my own frame on a workshop at bigforrest frameworks.
Modern Components, Discbreak. Smooth riding and very fast!😁
I have 3 steel bikes and love them all. They ride beautifully and feel very different to my carbon and aluminium bikes.
Totally agree
Steel frame is perfect for commuter bike. It’s comfortable, durable, affordable, practical and most importantly, stylish. I wear suits in office and steel frame blends really well with the fashion. It can even carry heavy attachments such as a child seat. In terms of versatility, steel frame is truly the one bike to rule them all.
Steel frame was my choice for the first bike I’m still using and I’d happily recommend the same to anyone interested in cycling!
Steel frames are the most practical for the same reasons that a Toyota is more practical than a Ferrari. Marginal gains in performance come at the expense of everything else. I will say, though, it's a lot easier to find an affordable aluminum bike when buying new compared to buying steel.
@@PellagrahI'd rather have an average, used carbon bike than the highest end, new steel bike
@@veganpotterthevegando that then, I wouldn't trust used carbon when I don't know what's happened to it.
Not sure how you could look at something like a Ritte Phantom and go "yeah I'll have a 105 equipped Giant TCR with a load of wear instead".
I love a steel commuter, especially old 90s mtbs with rack mounts. The only minor issue is rust if you ride it through winter. You have to stay on top of the rust proofing.
@@veganpottertheveganI would be careful with used carbon bikes. Older designs are so rigid they rattle my teeth but if they don't, is it damaged?
Most bike channels do comparisons of bike frame materials (e.g. steel, titanium, aluminium, carbon) but overlook the fact that if you are buying a high end steel or titanium bike, most likely it is being built today (2023) as a custom geometry, with choice of components and tubesets. Even if the geometry is only slightly different from stock, it can still make a palpable difference to the rider. This is why I prefer steel over carbon. The best fit and handling is more important than having the stiffest or lightest material bike frame. There are many custom bike builders building MODERN design steel bikes for $7k-$10K and for these buyers, weight or pro brand means nothing, as they understand why they don't want a mass-produced bike. What's more, the selection of tubes, dropouts etc. and tools continues to improve. For all of these reasons, steel bikes are not irrelevant and won't be for sometime.
I have a Bianchi Boron steel bike (extra strong steel alloy including carbon) - built in 1998 with carbon forks based on the Mega Pro XL bike used by Marco Pantani
oh thanks :))
I had a vintage 1982 Olmo Competition and that bike was so nice to ride. It was so buttery smooth. It led me to get a custom steel Speedvagen which too rides so nicely. Aside from the weight steel frames feel smoother than my carbon bikes. It's a different feeling which is more grounded than carbon bikes that seem to float across the road. For a nice cruising or commuting bike, steel is the way to go. Plus, it takes it back to fine craftsmanship of the past. I've cycled through many carbon bikes but my steel Speedvagen is my one forever bike.
I have 6 steel bikes; road, gravel, SS, mtb. They’re heavier for sure but ride feel is totally different. Something that stands out if you’re riding back to back 200km days bike packing. Equally more robust and dependable for such rides. Mtb wise they’re more comfortable… I can’t explain it more than that. I’m riding for the enjoyment of riding, not looking to be the fastest or racing, then I’d care more about weight etc 🥳
I have 4 bikes, all steel frames. I’m curious about the other frame materials, especially carbon, since they’re so popular now. But i love the look of the classic steel frame with rim brakes and thin wheels. They look fast and light, whereas the modern carbon road bike looks so heavy and clumsy. I know the modern carbon bikes are better in most ways, but it feels good to be riding something beautiful.
carbon has not sould and its not better it all about money
Love steel, my 1990 Steel Giordana is still my favorite bike to ride! As for buying a new Steel bike, I'm saving up for a Pegoretti - my dream bike!
I refurbed an old steel frame road bike as my winter bike, it's great to ride, definitely heavier and slower but when the Spring comes and I so enjoy the carbon fibre. Vive la difference!
Love my All-City Zig Zag! Not custom, but it fits well and is very quick.
Interesting subject and video.
I own a steel Shand Stooshie in gravel bike spec, Zipp 303s wheels, 38mm tubeless tyres Di2 GRX and Rockshox gravel 40mm travel fork.
Think this gives me the best combination of modern technology along with the traditional bike heritage of the bike frame.
One thing i will say about steal frames is the different types of customization you come across, steal certainly does give you a different ride quality & is great if not one of the best for touring on, you can also feel the difference between frames builds to
Yes, I would still buy a steel bike, if I had too. Seems the bike I purchased in April of 1980, Fuji S12S, SN FK924681 is still going strong though, so to answer the other question, yes, steel can be for life. I originally bought it to get around my college campus, fun, and exercise. Long rides on the weekend, shorter ones during the week after classes. Over the years, I have replaced components as they wear out, except the seat, I bought that because I thought it would be more comfortable than the leather seat, which I still have, and it is. According to my Garmin, I put almost 2,000 miles on this past year, and about 2,200 last year. I think around 1,800 the year before. Work and weather play into how many miles I'm able to enjoy. I have a recent photo, but I do not know how to add it here. Other than replacing parts, I have not "restored" or done anything else to the bike. I do hose it down after a ride with water, if needed, but I do not go crazy cleaning it or anything.
Got a custom made steel gravel bike from Project 12 bikes in the Netherlands and I love it. I am one of the people who ride for pleasure and fitness but I do follow my performance and I don't really notice the pound or two greater weight vs. carbon.
I got back into cycling in 2023 after years of being an avid motorcyclist, and I chose a Soma Rush in Tange Prestige steel (comparable to Reynolds 631) -- beautiful bike and rides exactly as well as I want on a 1.75 mile commute with some pretty gnarly urban pavement! I'm not against alloy, carbon, nor titanium, for sure, but for my needs a good simple steel frame fits better than anything else
As a rider of a carbon bike for the last nine years, this winter I decided to ride my old steel bike that had been left unloved in my shed for the past thirty fives years plus, and only swapping the twenty seven wheels for some modern alloy seven hundred wheels and chain.... and yes the last two months have been great despite it being double the weight of my carbon bike plus higher gearing, then Boxing Day I decided to ride my carbon road bike, and it felt incredibly harder on the rider feel back on my old body, but still faster by only five minutes per hour on a three hour winter ride... so a modern steel bike seems like the future, maybe ?
Living in places that salt the road a lot in the winter, steel isn't something I wanna ride in the winter. Carbon, titanium or stainless steel are the only frame materials I want for that
@@veganpotterthevegan you can wash it between rides…
@stevefitches1381 sure, and that can make a brine penetrate into the frame which is a total non-issue with carbon and titanium
@@veganpotterthevegan Modern cheap CroMoly frames have an ED coating now that prevents rust completely you are on crack again.
Awesome 👌
I restored my 1998, 4130 Chrome-moly Gary Fisher mountain bike. I use it to commute into work occasionally, because it has rack mounts. My other bikes don't have rack mounts. My local multi-use path is a bit rough, and I have to say, the 2" slicks, steel frame and primitive Rockshox DART fork (not original) make the path feel like freshly paved asphalt. Well, almost! The point is, I purchased the Gary Fisher 25 years ago-and it is still a very serviceable, enjoyable bike. If you're not racing, a high-quality steel bike makes sense. A high-quality steel bike can easily last 20+ years. I'm currently looking at a Ribble Gravel 725, Norco Search, and a Niner SIR 9. Two to three thousand dollars for a bike which does not need to be replaced in a few years is really not a lot of money. To be fair, my 12 year old aluminum Synapse is still going strong. But steel does a better job at killing the "buzz" you can feel on a bike, in my opinion.
Fascinating look into the making of a custom steel frame. Explaining the process & the characteristics of a steel frame was very educational. Ride quality seems to be inherent in a steel frame depending on the type & thickness of the metal. I would think that the majority of recreational riders would prefer ride comfort over speed.
I've owned a variety of different material bikes over the last 70 years & my only long time keeper is a 15 year old KHS Solo-One SE 29er hardtail single speed, which has stood up to a lot of hard bush treks, sand dune sorties & everyday road riding. The proportions are great & the "feel" of the steel triple butted made in USA frame is magic. Go steel!
I bought a steel bike last year. A Bombtrack Hook EXT. gravel bike. It’s great, I like it. I wouldn’t mind a steel road bike now.
Still have my old 1986 Reynolds 531 Pro race bike and its really fun to ride compared to my Carbon Colnago and Titanium Gravel bike.
For me, fit comes first, and I can get a steel frame made to my dimensions and made to the flex my joints prefer. Plus, it’s easier to get customizations like built-in lighting and racks. Finally, after owning all kinds of forks, I still like the feel of tapered steel blades the best.
The greatest bonus of 531 is it can be 'cold set'. this means the rear triangle could be widened from 126mm to 130mm. 753 couldn't. Bend it too much and it cracked.
Early 120mm OLN frames could be taken out to 126mm.
6 months ago I was offered a great deal on a new but retro Creme Echo Solo.
It is a fair bit slower and about 4 kg heavier than my modern road bike, but it's more comfortable, gives me more confidence with a superior ride feel and I love the way it looks and rides.
Last month I did my hardest ride ever on it, a 140km alpine ride including the Stelvio pass. And it was absolutely awesome.
I'm selling my modern road bike now.
Being an older guy. I love the sleek thin lines of a Steel Bicycle. As far as ride quality goes in todays day and age. Plus Tubless tires. Carbons and Aluminum frame ride quality can be very good. But as a frame in its own. The springy flex of a steel frame is hard to beat. Owning all those materials in bicycle frames. I still love my Steels the most.
I've had a Chas Roberts MTB for 32 years and a Dave Lloyd triathlon bike for 30 years; it wasn't until 3 or 4 years ago that I realised they're Chas & Dave...
I once restored a 1939 Raleigh Lenton sport. Wonderful bicycle! I donated it to a museum.
I’d love more info on magnesium bike frames. It’s never mentioned in the options, but I know it’s used for bike building
I use an old 531 steel, Nigel Dean frame with a random selection of modern bits as my turbo trainer bike. No penalty for aero or weight, but additional flex for comfort.
I love steel. As to weight, my steel Mondonico with Campagnolo Nucleon wheels and Super Record weighed in at 8kg in the early 2000s. And that was the Futura Leggero, the heaviest model he made. I’ve read that the Spirit model was 500g lighter. So you know, I am not a steel snob - I have an S-Works Diverge and I love it… but I hate that it’s disposable. I’ve already worn one of them out. It was a 2015 “S-Works” Diverge (they didn’t label them S-Works that year, but it came with all S-Works parts including cranks, bars, stem, and seat post were S-Works.). That first Diverge died when the dropouts dropped out. That will never happen to a steel frame.
Steel frames would probably still be the standard for affordable bikes if it weren't cheaper for the industry to mass produce and easier to mass market aluminium frames.
Ultra cheap alloy bikes sometimes come with a steel fork because alloy would be too stiff, and carbon is more expensive. Steel as a material once processed ready for tubing is still a bit more expensive than aluminium. There are a couple of small factors that add up to alloy frames being cheaper to produce.
Over the years I have owned a bike made from every frame material and I have to say that carbon fiber is by far the best. That being said, several years ago I spent a week working with a master frame builder and fabricated my own steel frame out of Columbus Foco tubing, which is an absolute dream to ride and, for me, far superior to titanium and carbon fiber. Excellent video.
With all due respect, which frame material do you currently prefer?
I without a doubt prefer steel because of the ride feel. While carbon fiber is amazing, steel feels alive to ride. Steel is real. I know it's cliché, but it says it all.
I've just completely overhauled my 34 year old Claud Butler Dalesman (off-the-peg Reynolds 531 tourer)... it rides as well as the day I bought it, and I see no reason why it shouldn't go on for an other 34 years+. That's value for money!
I have a factory made steel frame (Salsa Fargo) onto which I transferred all the parts from a MTB. So creating a flat bar gravel bike in 2011. It has served me well. It had its own little holiday in France between being stolen and recovered by French policen a year later. Still my favourite bike that I ride most days. Worst frame feature is the derailleur hanger as part of frame. It has been bent and replacement is a significant frame repair I think, not just buying and fitting a new hanger.
I'm a believer in factory frames. Handmade is more risly unless you really know your stuff to be sure the builder is doing it correctly.
In the Montreal region (Quebec, Canada) Marinoni makes fantastic custom build steel bike, that will last forever❤
I cant seem to find the link to Paul's custom build bikes. Can you share please.
I own a Norco Search Steel bike made from a Reynolds 725s for AUD$2,000. I chose it because of the 'steel is real' ethos, great blue paint, but most of all, the superb value-for-money components (it came with GRX 20 speed groupset, hydraulic disc brakes, super light wtb rims).
In Australia, for $2k, you'd get an aluminium/carbon with entry level Claris, Sora components or Microshift.
I've since done a 100k Brisbane to Gold Coast and commute 3 days a week, plus weekend rides.
I've also added some aero Pro-lite rims and can match carbon-led pelotons around the Brisbane areas. Its range of gears are superb and I highly recommend the ride.
I was lucky/smart enough to buy a customer steel frame from one for North America's best frame builders, Sam Whittingham of Naked bikes back in 2011. Since then I've travelled with it in three continents and amassed many miles AND smiles. Best money I've ever spent. Oh and Alex and Oli Super nice it!
I’ve restored a few steel bikes… to catalog image/materials. But currently working on a steel restro-mod with modern gearing, shifting, and some carbon parts.
Great video Simon !
👍
I loved the old Kona and Klien steel mtb frames of the 90s. Id defo ride one today.
@GCN Great video, thanks. I work in engineering so understand exactly what Paul was saying about the material properties and often find myself wondering why we don't see more steel frames what with the availability of the high UTS tube sets that are now available. I'm borrowing a steel frame to ride following a crash that damaged my current carbon one and I can't wait to try it.
Simple - because the gullible bike buying public want to copy the pros, and think carbon is the only material for a bike. One day they'll wake up and realise......
I guess that carbon frame bike is similar to a fiberglass body car. Lighter, but cannot take a good hit without extensive damage.
I own a steel gravel bike and would always go back for another steel bike for such type of cycling. Yes its heavier than Carbon but it can handle the „abuse“ better than a carbon frame. Plus it flexes a bit more and adds comfort.
I started racing on a stiff Aluminum frame in 1985, and rode it until 1995 when I changed to a steel Bianchi, that I raced on until I changed back to Aluminum in 2000. In 2002, I changed back to a steel frame with .5mm tubes, and raced on that bike until 2017, when I retired from racing. I still ride the bike I raced on from 2002 to 2017, but only ride a few thousand miles a year now.
My Physics classes ended after A Levels, but I still throughly enjoy this video
Retired my 98 Peugeot columbus last year, got older and not as flexible so i took a massive leap forward in tech to an aluminium canyon. Lovely ride, doesnt flex. But that means i feel more. Ill go back to steel after this one.
I have an old full suspension 26 inch Mountain Bike frame that is made of steel me and my younger broke it's fork and sitting in our garage for over 20 years and we decided to clean it up and revive it and modify it so that I could mount a disk brakes on the rear and it runs really good like brand new. Although It took sometime to find a fork with disk brake adapter, I loved it even if it's a heavy bike atleast it's like a tank of the bicycle world. Like you can take alot of beating like no to less worries on any road conditions.
A fine steel is hard to beat- I love my Reynolds 853 Niner RLT 9 gravel bike, my Reynolds 725 Ribble Urban 725s single speed, and my Surly Krampus XC/bike packing rig- ultra smooth ride quality, tough as nails, and fun as hell to ride…..
I see many parallels btwn steel bikes and vinyl records. We're entering into the 'record collecting' phase for steel bikes right now. Steel frames are still being made, however, it's more of a niche in the industry.. Equivelent to record companies pressing vinyl during the Compact Disc era of music. There are still people out there who want steel frames, but the greater industry has moved in a different direction. Which leads me to believe that steel frames, like vinyl records, will never fully go away. There is a demand at the moment for classic steel frames from the 70s, 80s, & 90s and no shortage of forgotten, discarded, or storage bound frames and parts to be discovered, recycled and resuscitated by a new generation of cyclists (record collectors). Purists looking for the undeniable look and feel of steel are much like the DJs and music nerds who yearned for the sound and feel of vinyl, eventually leading to music industry (major and independent lables) returning to vinyl production.
All of that to say.. I see a resurgence of steel frame production in the not too distant future. 😎🤙🏼
My hand built Saffron Frameworks steel dream is and always will be the best bike I've ever owned
I train on the road on 1983 Ishiwata 019 tube set frame. Not the lightest but still a lovely bike to ride. I still race on 1986 Columbus SLX frame, gorgeous! Again not the lightest but a very lively frame to race on. Up to this point, I have only ridden steel bikes. Let us be realistic. As most of us are not elite level cyclists, it is mostly about the engine. However, the more comfortable a bike is to ride, the more likely you are to ride it, and that must be a good thing. Time alone will tell how many carbon frames are still viable after 40 years of use - not abuse or neglect!
Amazing tubes are welding from the inside of juntions. Nice video, Thank yo GCN.
I ride a Standert Triebwerk Steel Road Bike and absolute love it
I have a Surly Karate Monkey for bikepacking/mtb and just finished building a Surly Bridge Club drop bar for commuting/gravel/brewery/cafe rides. I wouldn't go back to mass-produced bikes now, I am loving the ride quality of the Surlys.
Young’s modulus isn’t the yield strength like the interviewee says, where the material undergoes plastic deformation beyond that point (even that is an approximate definition)
Yep. Haven't had one for 12 years but plan on getting another.
My main bike is a braized steel Schwinn and it's been going strong for decades.
Yes. I have a Condor Posta fixed wheel bike. It is extremely comfortable to ride, more so than my titanium bike or my old aluminium frame. Ive never had any problems with rust despite it spending 15 years commuting in heavy rain. I’ve never had or wanted a carbon frame but I’d be concerned that a crash would require extensive checking to make sure it was still ok. There’s also the carbon footprint issue of course.
Oh dear. I'm afraid Paul has got his terms confused. What Paul called "Youngs modulus" is actually the yield strength (ie when further loading produces permanent deformation). "Youngs modulus" is actually the measure of how much a material deforms as a load is applied within the elastic limit (another name for yield strength).
Putting the scientific nerdiness aside, he is quite right that custom bike frames are almost exclusively steel. I ride steel, not because I particularly like it, but because I'm old (and hopefully going to get older) and my hip flexibility is no longer sufficient to get a leg over the saddle as you need to for a cross bar bike. So I need a step through.
I dearly wish for a lighter bike (I live in a hilly area) but with this "leg over" limitation aluminium frames are not that much lighter and other materials not realistically available. I did reach out to a Ti frame builder but got no response.
I blame the UCI. If it didn't insist on a top tube cross bar we might well have something like the Giant MCR (I think I got that right?) or a road version of the Lotus bike that we could enjoy. Damn the UCI!
I have a custom steel frame that was made for me in the late 90s, built up as what we would call a gravel bike today, but running MTB wheels... which is now obsolete thanks to the demise of 26inch wheels. It was a dream to ride, but a bit of a handful on the rough stuff. When going custom, it is sometimes the only way to get something unusual. However, make sure that you are not going down a path that only you will follow and you don't end up with a frame that is unusable twenty years later. Saying that, I have resto-modded a steel frame road bike from 1987. It was super easy to change the drop outs with a simple TIG weld and with a cold set of the frame, it went from 126mm spacing to 135mm spacing, with no damage or risk of fracture. You cannot do that with a carbon or aluminium frame. Also, steel has a ride feel that speaks to the rider, there is a joy in my steel frames that I don't feel on my aluminium framed bikes.
Have any of you tried magnesium bikes? I always liked the look of the old Kirks, but I recall that they sadly had an issue with reliability. I do believe that Carerra had a magnesium tube frame out for a while, but have no idea how well that lasted.
Wouldn't a steel frame be ideal for an endurance/touring road bike, more comfortable on the the long ride?
Dawes Super Galaxy touring bike. 👍
I absolutely love my steel 1984 univega viva sport!! I wish there were more steel MTBs at entry level prices
Steel's Young's modulus is about 3 times of aluminum's. Steel is stiffer than aluminum. Steel's fatigue limit is almost non-existent. The material characteristics allow the frame to flex around and no worries. However, when aluminum meets the fatigue limit, it will crack (fail). The aluminum frame design has to focus on being stiff to decrease the risk of failing.
Just finished a Ritchey Outback build. Next up will be a steel road bike build.
Had my (custom) winter and race Brian Rourkes since the mid 90’s, 531c and 653 respectively. I look like a real old timer (despite being a mere 48) when I’m out but have seen no reason to change as I don’t think anything could be considered an upgrade!
Trouble is mass produced steel frames are rare now hence the price going through the roof