I've had a lot of questions about my charging handle in the recent M16A2 Improved Zero video. What you're seeing is gasket sealant which is an old school gas deflection solution on old school AR15s. That's my charging handle from the old school XTC high power days.
In basic training at Ft. Sill, 1985, I was catching hell trying to qualify with M16A1. Got to my duty station and was still having problems with the M16A1. My next duty station had A2's. I was given a class on the M16A2, got it zeroed with no issues, and Sharpshooter on the first go, afterward, I started shooting Expert. Last duty station in Ft. Ord California, I went off post and bought the Semi Auto version at a sporting goods store for only $600. Every chance I got, I was at the shooting range. Still have that rifle to this day!!😄
How much do you think that was due to a worn out rifle? I actually prefer the A1 sights. When I went through Advanced Camp in 96, we qualified with A1s. But there rifles were practically new. VERY accurate shooters. Even when I trained on the A2, I never really fussed with the sight after it was zeroed.
When I shot the M16A2 in Marine Corps Basic Training in 2010 (I was one if the last platoons to get M16A2s) we used a very similar zero on our rifles. We zeroed at 36 then confirmed and refined at 300, but our sights were set so we could click below that for the 200 yard line which we called the “300 minus 2” position. A 36/300 yard BZO as was USMC standard at the time works pretty much the same as a 50/200 zero. You just train yourself to have a slightly lower hold at middle ranges. Also, the squared M16A2 front sight post was used as a rangefinder. A man at 300 yards is the same width as your front sight, so if the target is the same size or bigger than your front sight you just use the BZO. If he is smaller than your front sight you know you need to adjust your sights or your hold and to watch the wind more. Of course this is not the only way to do it, but that’s the “what and the why” of how I was taught.
I came to make the same comment. I went to bootcamp in 1991 and it was the same. 8/3-2 zero. We zeroed our front sight at the 100yard line then moved back to 200 and set the rear at 8/3-2 clicks and adjusted normally at 300 and 500. It just worked. I didn't know at the time about the adjustment of the lower knob but the PMI's did call it improved battle sight zero, it must have been a standard thing in the Marine Corps from the adoption of the A2.
This is where the Soviet philosophy understood the mission. A combat zero of 400m represents the upper end of expected engagement distances in combat with an intermediate calibre rifle -- at least without the advantage of magnified optics. A waist hold at 400m translates into collar shot placement at 100m. An upper leg hold translates into centre of mass placement. This makes engaging targets at unknown distances much more reliable and intuitive under the stress of combat. Just hold no higher than the waste and most of your shots will land with the right elevation. However, the purpose of this sort of combat zero is not to make the shooter more likely to hit the target with their first shot -- it's to make them better at working instinctively with their mates on their left and right. It turns the rifleman into one component of an effective suppressive fire unit. The proliferation of magnified optics reduced the need for fire teams to act as substitute machine gunners and softened the distinction between riflemen and designated marksmen.
Karl said it in the video but just to make it extra clear, *you must rezero your front sight for elevation (probably 2-3 notches anticlockwise) after this* because the rear aperture now sits higher at the same distance setting. Matt of Everyday Marksman wrote an article of exactly this procedure too, if anyone prefers to read it in text rather than a video.
I was a USMC grunt back in the '90s. My recollection is that the KD range in boot camp and the fleet was to keep us up to speed on basic marksmanship skills. Combat shooting was a different skill set. I don't recall ever being taught to adjust sights on anything BUT the KD range. I do remember also learning the term "Kentucky Windage". We also learned quick and dirty range estimation with the A2 front sight post - at 300m, the post is about as wide as a man. So, wider post = farther than 300m, wider man = less than 300m.
For those looking to implement this with a detachable carry handle (which will be labeled 6/3 instead of 8/3) you will need to double the number of clicks to achieve the same elevation. (So dial down 6/3 minus 4 to reach the 50/200 setting that Karl is demonstrating.)
What? Not how the Marines teach it. any flattop upper, at any bbl length (M16A4 / M4) will have a Dch 6/3 from the factory. USMC does adjust the rear sight -3 A2 8/3-3, A4/M4 6/3-3. We BZO at 36 yards, 3 clicks up on rear sight for a 300 yard. 1 click of adjustment is a 100 yard adjusment under 300 yards.
For those who worry about "idle hands" the other thing we did back in the 80s was after you set the BZ you counted it down to zero on both the front sight post and the rear sight, and wrote them into your range book. I had only 2 range books in 12 years, one for the A1 they gave me in Boot Camp, and the other for the A2 I got when I hit the Fleet. Both times I was in a Fleet unit I got the same rifle (it was the same unit) and when I took it to the range I used the old dope and had no trouble shooting expert again. Once you knew the number of clicks you could reset in the dark. Which was handy., since I'm still pretty sure the armorers threw on a few extra clicks when checking for cleanliness if you had been lazy and left 'excessive carbon' on your rifle. I just checked it daily during range week and reset it if needed. Good times!
Exactly, with your qualification on the line you put extra care into verifying your zero and knowing exactly how many clicks from zero you need to be at. Like you said it can be done in the dark. I think it's kind of insulting that not only the new generations but old fogies on youtube think that the soldiers and Marines of the era were so poorly trained that they couldn't be trusted with two adjustable knobs just because stoner didn't like them
I think it seems that way because we've generally moved away from it. It's been a rifleman skill since at least the mid-19th century. I'd definitely put forth the videos/books on the topic by Brett Gibbons "Papercartridges" and Rob at British Muzzleloaders. I think the skill has somewhat slid with current military cartridges that shoot immensely flatter than those of a century+ ago and BZO/IBZO pretty much relegating it to a matter of memorizing holds rather then sight setting.
@@goldenhide Skill? Yes a skill. The reality was a lot of misses across the board. It's still very difficult, even for the Brits. Granted it was the least amount of rounds per kill around that time. Granted, men avoided being seen a lot less at the time.
The A2 rear sight is more for defense using range cards than meeting engagements. In the defense you have the advantage of knowing the distance to different areas and key terrain features. So this makes you able to engage the enemy at extended range and actually use the full capability of the weapon.
Also combining this with using aiming stakes to rest the rifle into to automatically be aimed at key features and avenues of approach allows you to engage the enemy in poor visibility or at night much more effectively than just winging it. Or at longer distance, you can dig a shelf in your fighting position to support the forend and a second shelf below that to support your elbows. This can be used to hold much steadier than you can hold it yourself and allow you to essentially create a beaten zone with your rapid semi auto fire. At least that was the idea anyway. They weren't totally stupid, they designed the rifle around their tactics at the time. Give up a little weight and heft for the capability to match enemy with weapons that can adjust their sights to 2000 yards. There was a big problem in Vietnam with us troops being overmatched by enemy with Mosin nagants sks, and AK pattern rifles. They would sit outside the effective range of their XM16E1s and dump massed group fire onto them and retreat into the jungle to dissappear. The us troops had to have some sort of crew served weapon or designated marksman to be able to inflict casualties and get out of the far ambush. This also happened extensively in the GWOT and in Afghanistan particularly. So there's something to be said about having the capability to compensate for drop at unrealistic distances.
Boom beat me to the punch, the adjustable rear sight is perfect for working off a range card and TRP's in a defense. In the assault or on patrol the 3/8 base setting shouldn't really be touched.
I was going to say something similar and also mention that the A2 was a product of a world in which the US Army's biggest concern was fighting the USSR in Europe. That would have been a defensive fight, at least in the early stages, fought from fix positions with known distances. The weapon was built for a specific situation.
I had the privilege of using the M16A2 in the USMC. We zeroed a bit differently than you showed, but whatever works for you. As far as knowing your distances on a battlefield, we always created range cards/maps wherever we were set in. It takes the guess work out of ranging and makes it easy to call for fire.
In basic training, drill sgt said set it to 8/3 and dont fuck with it. When i got to my unit a combat vet sgt told me bottom it out and go 1 click up. Later on i met a green beret who carried one way in the early days of afghanistan and they used the elevation drum basically only when at the range. Thanks for this vid, even an old army guy like me didnt get this knowledge.
As someone who owns an A2 and A4, I love the iron sights for shooting at a range I like the A4 for having a scope, red dot, or even just a rear iron sight attachment that isn't a carry handle style
I modified my A2 rear sight with an un-marked 1/4 MOA value elevation wheel and windage knob. Thereafter, I sighted in on The MR-31 Target using a 6 o’clock hold with the elevation wheel 8 clicks up from bottom, which allowed me to use a center of mass hold should I prefer. Then from ballistics calculation I painted the elevation wheel for 200, 300, 500, and 600 yard bullet drop compensation for the ammunition type used at each of those distances. This effort got me good elevation adjustment for distance without need for sight-in shots, which is important in CMP governed US Service Rifle Competition. My results in that competition lead to me earning the US Distinguished Rifleman Badge in just a few seasons. My point here is study your shooting application and then pick a zero distance that makes that zero an appropriate placeholder from which the sight can be quickly reset to another distance that you might be shooting to. This strategy is better than a battle sight zero when exacting accuracy is needed but it also allows for a quick adjustment to a 300 yard battle sight zero.
I'm personally a huge fan of 300 yard or meter zeros for ironsights, but I gotta admit that this is a really clever little hack. I'd be interested to see what other cool little tricks translate well between the world of High Power Rifle and more practical firearms employment.
Given my experience as an infantry Drill Sergeant and NCO back in the tail end of the Cold War and beginning of the post-Soviet era, I have used the Santos IBZO method (or some variation of it, modified as ballistics direct) since I heard about it, about 20 years ago. Frankly, most average trained shooters have enough trouble at 300m, even under the fairly low stress of Army annual qual (where you could technically miss all four 300m targets and still make "Expert" under the pre-2020 standards.) Other than "precision" platforms, I tend to use the logical basis of the IBZO (Maximum Point Blank Range, or MPBR, zero). I select the target size i want to be able to hit, divide that diameter by four (half to account for stress, and another half account for maximum ordinate above and maximum ordinate below), and try to figure the near and far zeros for that max ordinate - usually, I end using the height of the sights over bore for any AR type platform. Now, the barrel length, clambering, and load will all affect the ballistic track, so you will have differing zero ranges for different guns (or even vastly different loads in the same gun - .300BLK supers versus subs, for instance), but the concept holds true. And will still likely yield a "Minute of Facemeat" zero for a center hold to most credible lawful defensive shoot ranges, and "Minute of Ribcage" farther than that. Even with, say, a 9x19mm PCC with a SMG length barrel and 124gr +P or equivalent loads, this is surprisingly farther than one would think. Is it the most precise way to zero? No. That's why I don't use it on rifles I would expect to want a dope card taped to the stock. But, it does yield a very *shootable* rifle under stress, optimized for the highest stress environments. Even when the rifle is primarily aimed towards close range stuff (like the "house carbine"), i use this. It's easier to remember a "hairline hold in hallways" (which is still adequate for good hits even with a center sternum hold) than to try to deal with the ballistics arc of a 5.56mm you zeroed at, say 15 meters if the target is at, say 100m (the rough length of my driveway, which is an *unlikely* but *feasible* scenario).
My Bushmaster A2 has been zeroed at 50 yards on the 300 yd notch for 20 years and I never realized that the numbers didn't actually line up until now 😂 thanks for the video, I'm going to adjust it next time I go to the range.
Very cool. In the Marine Corps I qualified with the M16A2 with Irons in 2003 using the standard method. In 2004, I got orders to go to Iraq for OIF2. Prior to that, I got shipped off to Camp Pendleton for some Desert Warfare training and grabbed our rifles and zero them in. If I remember, we only did a quick BZO using Irons. 0-300 Yds and that was good to go. 2007 my last year in the Corps, we switched over to the M16A4 Platform. We zero'd a bit differently because we finally got to qualify with ACOGS and/or Back Up sights. To me, made a big difference and made qual a cake walk. M16A4 had the HBAR too. That was pretty sweet to shoot.
So many people screw up this explanation and half way through describing it they sound like Joe Biden. This guy got it right on with no stumbling. Thanks brother I found the right video finally that would help me understand. Hitting the range this weekend.
thanks for that . Im an irons guy and this is just great to know about and makes the consept of running irons exclusively just that much more usable and enjoyable. take care.
I qualified on a 16a2 in BCT. In my time in the army, you zeroed your rifle (new to you, after shipping somewhere) and then you left it alone. You shot your qualifications and you carried it around, but you didn't mess with the sights.
That's what I remember. 25 meter zero on paper. Rotate up one click from 300 meter setting, adjust sights to center group, the drop back down to 300 meter. Then never, ever, ever touch the damn thing again. I never heard of a 50/200 zero before. I'm assuming the other branches did things differently than the Army?
I prefer the RIBZ instead of IBZ since it also gives you a 100 yard setting. It’s done by going back 8 clicks instead of 6. Then you use nail polish to mark your 50 (4clicks back) & 100 (6clicks back) settings on the drum. The reason you lock it down at 8 clicks is so the drum is not bottomed out on you 100 setting.
I joined the Army as an 11C (infantry mortar crewman) in 1975 and the A1 was the weapon. The rear sight was windage with the fore sight elevation. I was able to get a battlesight zero for 250 m with no problem, and the last time I qualified was two years later, just before transferring to the field artillery as a 13F. We had just gotten back from the range and I had the best zero I ever had, and that weapon was grouped dead center on the Canadian Bull, with a very tight group. Requalified expert (maybe missed one target) and I was really pleased with that weapon. But then, upon turn-in, the armorer wouldn't give me my weapons card back! Apparently some numb nut had decided to shift weapons around, and though I begged and pleaded to let me keep that weapon, it was to no avail. I was sorely pissed off. I've run through people trying to tell me how to zero an A2, and I got to say it makes no sense at all. Fortunately, at 73 years old I don't need to zero anything any longer. But I still miss my beautifully zeroed-in M16A1.
I will say that in a defensive scenario where you’ll be able to establish TRPs and you’d have time to figure out the distances you could really get the most out of you’re adjustable sights
This makes a ton of sense, kind of taps into the whole "no plan survives contact with the enemy." All the range-driven pedagogy needs to be re-evaluated for real life conditions
Ive watched your video many times, not because it was hard to understand but I enjoyed your easy going presentation. Ill do what you showed and just keep mine on the 50/200 as that will cover 99% of my shooting. When I start making my own ammo I guess I will have to make sure my improved battlesight zero is still good to go.
Excellent info. Always loved the look of the A1 and A2, have always wanted a hybrid of sorts, basically an A2 with the A1s triangular handguard... that's just what's stuck in my mind from seeing them as a kid :)
When I learned the A2 in Marine Corps boot camp we did a 36/300 zero on the 8/3 setting. When qualifying at 200 yards we went to 8/3 -1 or -2, 300 was 8/3, and 500 was 5. I've used a couple A2s that wouldn't go to -2 so it's interesting to know why.
the factory sets them to 8/3, then when the rifles are del8verd to the Marines, 2111 adjust them -3 8/3-3 what i was told by a 2111 friend of mine. The we BZO, we went 3 clicks up to 8/3 for a 300 yard. when i tell people the Marines sight in ano5her way from the Army 25 metter thier heads blow up..lol
Very well done sir. Best explanation with no superfluous BS. Love my trusty HBAR Colt. Now I think Ill take it to the range. Had it since 1988. Liked and subbed. Thank you.
I've got a Fulton Armory FAR-15 A2 and it is absolutely an M-16A2 clone with the exception of having Fulton's .223 hybrid match chamber, but in a 1:7 twist, gov't barrel. They actually sent my rifle out with this already done! It's pretty amazing. I was able to go 3 clicks down from the 3/8 setting and zero the rifle at 100 yards and it lobbed 55gr fmj's in at 300 yards with minimal correction needed. The M-16A2 with it's irons might be more than you'd need in a combat rifle, but who said that was a bad thing? Seriously! You can set it and forget it just as easily, but you have that adjustment option! Yeah, I know about the whole thing with "idle hands" thing, but do you, the avid shooter, have the restraint to not mess up the zero on your rifle? Just sayin'... :p
Hello everyone, I am Taiwanese. I like this M16A2 rifle very much. It can be used as a sniper rifle. The handle can be equipped with a sniper scope and the barrel can be equipped with a silencer.
Interesting! After watching that i appreciate the decision for the original issue austrian AUG sight even more. It was zeroed to teh shooter, shooting at a target at 200m. ->so the middle of the target was the middle of the "donut". Anythig closer didn't matter much as the target becomes bigger and things at around 300 were in the lower half of the donut. Easy enough to use for any conscript who never fired a gun before and didn't need to know anything about balistics or trajectory of the bullet. (even though we were told about it and got a book where it was covered) The 1.5x donut may not be as accurate for range use, but not having to dial anything yourself and just make sure the target is inside a circle makes it faster and easier for the common person. And judging by the scores in live shooting i remember, it made a lot of sense.
They make A2 style rear sights that work with a front sight block, the give you the same sight picture, kinda look like just the back of a carry handle A2 sight and give the same sighting ability as a carry handle, but with free space on the pic rail for A4 styles After the A2 Upper, it's my favorite sighting system for modern ARs, since they allow other sighting systems to be used for full cowitness or lower 1/3 In case anyone likes the sighting system but doesn't want a carry handle(be it upper, or a detachable one)
1:31 I agree. I don't typically shoot iron sights and took my M4 with a carry handle iron sight to a long distance range. I was pinging an 18"x18" steel target with ease at 400 yards. the BDC even worked like it should.
I do agree that with todays optics, it makes things easier, but I firmly believe in knowing the old irons. There are some optics out there that keep it simple, and other that complicate things. This, by far was one of the best inventions for the battle rifle. REMEMBER, Marines were engaging targets at the 600 in WW I. Just because we can't see things as well these days, doesn't mean that those feats were not accomplished. After shooting Marine rifle ranges, and going to another branches ranges, hitting targets was easy, and I learned it all the BASICS at PI.
Hmmm. This makes me think that at least when I entered the Marines in 2005 this had been done as a majority of cases we were 8/3-2 at 200 yards. Some people would zero to a -1 and some people had to -1 at 300. I figured that was always the way they worked. The odd thing is we still zeroed for 300 yards. Probably because you can use the 36yd/300yd short range zero still. Anyways, interesting to learn this wasn't a "feature" from the get go.
When I was in the Marines from 99 to 05 I was issued an M-16A2. I loved it and hated it. But it served me well in Iraq. But it's ironic that my personal rifle I own today is a ZPAP M70....a weapon based off the "rifle of the enemy"
Last November I shot in a Marine Heritage Shoot hosted by the New Jersey Arms Collectors Club. I used a M16A4 clone and a Dissapator, both with iron sights. It was fun but a 100 yards shooting a B8 target was like doting an "i" with the front sight. It was fun but this year I'm using a Hawke 1-8 LPVO and irons on the Dissipator
In usmc we did 36yd/300yd BZO. Same effect achieved with maintaining ability to dial As a knuckle-dragging service rifle competitor i cant walk away from dialing
This is the same settings USMC M16-A2 had. The first time I picked up a US Army M16-A2 I was confused because I thought this normal for all A2s didn't realize it was proprietary to Marines. Qualified expert everytime 500m was my bread and butter picked up points I would lose at the 300m. For some strange reason the 300m was my Kryptonite.
@wyomarine6341 brother, formal qualification does not play into it when shooting for the sheer enjoyment of shooting. There was life before the military, and there is life after the military, and now that I have to buy all my own ammo again, laying down behind an A2 is like spending time with an old friend. Damn near therapeutic.
You can also just zero for 300m, use the 0-2 as needed, and understand your very minimal hold-unders at 100-200. The IBZ is a solution looking for a problem, unless you're going for max precision on a target range.
Y’all should take a look at and compare HT orca (3d printed AR) vs the WWSD as it seems to sort of follow along with similar ideology on weight and performance based around needs.
The A2 is probably the most visually appealing of the US service ARs. Here's a question I never thought of before: Did the A3 immediately do away with the A2's thicker barrel, or did it stay until the A4?
The only differing factor between the A2 and A3 is that the A3 retains the full automatic fire-control group of the A1, while the A2 uses a burst fire-control group. Everything else is practically identical.
@@JunkyardBashSteve The A3 wasn't really a successor to the A2. The Navy wanted some rifles in full auto instead of burst and it was designated the A3. It's just an A2 that's full auto. Nothing more, nothing less.
The US Army never qualified on the known distance range in recent history. I was in the infantry for 25 years and the only known distance range I ever went to was the 25 meter range to zero my rifle.
The M16A2/A4 is still a better combat weapon than an M4 or any other short barreled M16 derivative. The 20-inch barrel on the A2, A3, or A4 give full ballistic and terminal potential to 5.56/.223, the full-length gas system gives higher reliability than an M4 and also offers slightly less recoil. G.I.'s in the Army and ground pounders in any other branch, might clamor for the shortness and lighter weight potential of the M4? But if they do, they are missing out on being able to kill better, slightly farther, and more reliably with an A2, A3, or A4 "musket".
As a former Artilleryman, we would much prefer a shorter and lighter rifle that is easier to carry, as our main weapon is substantially bigger and can hit much farther.
Holy shit! Never knew that??? Back then from the late 80s until the early 2000s when M16A2s was set to 8/3 and move one click forward to zero at 25 meters. If the way I zeroed was fucked up oh well. I'm still here survived the Panama Invasion and Iraq. We were trained that way...🤔🤔
Try adjusting that rear site only two clicks instead of four. Or maybe three clicks instead of four. however you can do whatever you want with your own rifle.
The 0-2 aperture is intended for low light and general engagement while the smaller aperture is intended for known distance and precision. If you have the sights zeroed with the small peep to 300 meters, then the 0-2 will be a center-mass hold from 0 to 200 meters.
I have kept the iron sights of my A2 at 300 for nearly 40 years. By the time you're far enough away that I can't hit you tye 5.56 in any form is ineffective.
I've had a lot of questions about my charging handle in the recent M16A2 Improved Zero video. What you're seeing is gasket sealant which is an old school gas deflection solution on old school AR15s. That's my charging handle from the old school XTC high power days.
So how come, you have comments disabled on your shorts?
In basic training at Ft. Sill, 1985, I was catching hell trying to qualify with M16A1. Got to my duty station and was still having problems with the M16A1.
My next duty station had A2's. I was given a class on the M16A2, got it zeroed with no issues, and Sharpshooter on the first go, afterward, I started shooting Expert. Last duty station in Ft. Ord California, I went off post and bought the Semi Auto version at a sporting goods store for only $600. Every chance I got, I was at the shooting range. Still have that rifle to this day!!😄
Wolfhound, Gimlet? 3/27 here.
@@GladIfoundthis Automatic Light! 6/8th Field Artillery!!
Ft. Ord ...sigh
How much do you think that was due to a worn out rifle? I actually prefer the A1 sights. When I went through Advanced Camp in 96, we qualified with A1s. But there rifles were practically new. VERY accurate shooters. Even when I trained on the A2, I never really fussed with the sight after it was zeroed.
When I shot the M16A2 in Marine Corps Basic Training in 2010 (I was one if the last platoons to get M16A2s) we used a very similar zero on our rifles. We zeroed at 36 then confirmed and refined at 300, but our sights were set so we could click below that for the 200 yard line which we called the “300 minus 2” position.
A 36/300 yard BZO as was USMC standard at the time works pretty much the same as a 50/200 zero. You just train yourself to have a slightly lower hold at middle ranges.
Also, the squared M16A2 front sight post was used as a rangefinder. A man at 300 yards is the same width as your front sight, so if the target is the same size or bigger than your front sight you just use the BZO. If he is smaller than your front sight you know you need to adjust your sights or your hold and to watch the wind more.
Of course this is not the only way to do it, but that’s the “what and the why” of how I was taught.
I came to make the same comment. I went to bootcamp in 1991 and it was the same. 8/3-2 zero. We zeroed our front sight at the 100yard line then moved back to 200 and set the rear at 8/3-2 clicks and adjusted normally at 300 and 500. It just worked. I didn't know at the time about the adjustment of the lower knob but the PMI's did call it improved battle sight zero, it must have been a standard thing in the Marine Corps from the adoption of the A2.
@@dphitch That is exactly what I needed to hear. I have been out so long. I remember the blocks but forget the chains that connect them!
I believe in carry-handle supremacy
No switches no shake awake you're just ready to rumble
Yeet🤘
Me too! Every time I try using red dots, I waste precious moments. I’ll stick with irons!
This is where the Soviet philosophy understood the mission. A combat zero of 400m represents the upper end of expected engagement distances in combat with an intermediate calibre rifle -- at least without the advantage of magnified optics. A waist hold at 400m translates into collar shot placement at 100m. An upper leg hold translates into centre of mass placement. This makes engaging targets at unknown distances much more reliable and intuitive under the stress of combat. Just hold no higher than the waste and most of your shots will land with the right elevation.
However, the purpose of this sort of combat zero is not to make the shooter more likely to hit the target with their first shot -- it's to make them better at working instinctively with their mates on their left and right. It turns the rifleman into one component of an effective suppressive fire unit. The proliferation of magnified optics reduced the need for fire teams to act as substitute machine gunners and softened the distinction between riflemen and designated marksmen.
Karl drops this just when I've been fighting the urge to put together an A2 upper 😊
Karl said it in the video but just to make it extra clear, *you must rezero your front sight for elevation (probably 2-3 notches anticlockwise) after this* because the rear aperture now sits higher at the same distance setting. Matt of Everyday Marksman wrote an article of exactly this procedure too, if anyone prefers to read it in text rather than a video.
I was a USMC grunt back in the '90s. My recollection is that the KD range in boot camp and the fleet was to keep us up to speed on basic marksmanship skills. Combat shooting was a different skill set. I don't recall ever being taught to adjust sights on anything BUT the KD range. I do remember also learning the term "Kentucky Windage". We also learned quick and dirty range estimation with the A2 front sight post - at 300m, the post is about as wide as a man. So, wider post = farther than 300m, wider man = less than 300m.
Henry Chan of 9 Hole Reviews is gonna love this and really loves the A2 and this is the gun he carried on his military deployment besides the M4.
I qualified with that rifle in '84 while in the Marines. That weapon was extremely accurate!
For those looking to implement this with a detachable carry handle (which will be labeled 6/3 instead of 8/3) you will need to double the number of clicks to achieve the same elevation. (So dial down 6/3 minus 4 to reach the 50/200 setting that Karl is demonstrating.)
Pin it!!
Thank u. I was going to ask this
With the screw loosened do you still go down 4 clicks... Or 8?
What? Not how the Marines teach it. any flattop upper, at any bbl length (M16A4 / M4) will have a Dch 6/3 from the factory. USMC does adjust the rear sight -3 A2 8/3-3, A4/M4 6/3-3. We BZO at 36 yards, 3 clicks up on rear sight for a 300 yard. 1 click of adjustment is a 100 yard adjusment under 300 yards.
So on a carry handle, I'd set it back 8 clicks for 6/3 and use the small peep aperture when doing this for a 50/200 zero?
For those who worry about "idle hands" the other thing we did back in the 80s was after you set the BZ you counted it down to zero on both the front sight post and the rear sight, and wrote them into your range book. I had only 2 range books in 12 years, one for the A1 they gave me in Boot Camp, and the other for the A2 I got when I hit the Fleet. Both times I was in a Fleet unit I got the same rifle (it was the same unit) and when I took it to the range I used the old dope and had no trouble shooting expert again.
Once you knew the number of clicks you could reset in the dark. Which was handy., since I'm still pretty sure the armorers threw on a few extra clicks when checking for cleanliness if you had been lazy and left 'excessive carbon' on your rifle. I just checked it daily during range week and reset it if needed. Good times!
Exactly, with your qualification on the line you put extra care into verifying your zero and knowing exactly how many clicks from zero you need to be at. Like you said it can be done in the dark. I think it's kind of insulting that not only the new generations but old fogies on youtube think that the soldiers and Marines of the era were so poorly trained that they couldn't be trusted with two adjustable knobs just because stoner didn't like them
Estimating range accurately is a skill of the gods.
I think it seems that way because we've generally moved away from it. It's been a rifleman skill since at least the mid-19th century. I'd definitely put forth the videos/books on the topic by Brett Gibbons "Papercartridges" and Rob at British Muzzleloaders.
I think the skill has somewhat slid with current military cartridges that shoot immensely flatter than those of a century+ ago and BZO/IBZO pretty much relegating it to a matter of memorizing holds rather then sight setting.
@@goldenhide Skill? Yes a skill. The reality was a lot of misses across the board. It's still very difficult, even for the Brits. Granted it was the least amount of rounds per kill around that time. Granted, men avoided being seen a lot less at the time.
Or a button on a laser rangefinder.
The A2 rear sight is more for defense using range cards than meeting engagements. In the defense you have the advantage of knowing the distance to different areas and key terrain features. So this makes you able to engage the enemy at extended range and actually use the full capability of the weapon.
Also combining this with using aiming stakes to rest the rifle into to automatically be aimed at key features and avenues of approach allows you to engage the enemy in poor visibility or at night much more effectively than just winging it. Or at longer distance, you can dig a shelf in your fighting position to support the forend and a second shelf below that to support your elbows. This can be used to hold much steadier than you can hold it yourself and allow you to essentially create a beaten zone with your rapid semi auto fire. At least that was the idea anyway. They weren't totally stupid, they designed the rifle around their tactics at the time. Give up a little weight and heft for the capability to match enemy with weapons that can adjust their sights to 2000 yards. There was a big problem in Vietnam with us troops being overmatched by enemy with Mosin nagants sks, and AK pattern rifles. They would sit outside the effective range of their XM16E1s and dump massed group fire onto them and retreat into the jungle to dissappear. The us troops had to have some sort of crew served weapon or designated marksman to be able to inflict casualties and get out of the far ambush. This also happened extensively in the GWOT and in Afghanistan particularly. So there's something to be said about having the capability to compensate for drop at unrealistic distances.
Boom beat me to the punch, the adjustable rear sight is perfect for working off a range card and TRP's in a defense. In the assault or on patrol the 3/8 base setting shouldn't really be touched.
This is true. This simply allowed you to more reliably hit area targets or in designated distance sector of fire
IE defending against the Russians storming across Europe in the 80’s
I was going to say something similar and also mention that the A2 was a product of a world in which the US Army's biggest concern was fighting the USSR in Europe. That would have been a defensive fight, at least in the early stages, fought from fix positions with known distances. The weapon was built for a specific situation.
I had the privilege of using the M16A2 in the USMC. We zeroed a bit differently than you showed, but whatever works for you. As far as knowing your distances on a battlefield, we always created range cards/maps wherever we were set in. It takes the guess work out of ranging and makes it easy to call for fire.
In basic training, drill sgt said set it to 8/3 and dont fuck with it. When i got to my unit a combat vet sgt told me bottom it out and go 1 click up. Later on i met a green beret who carried one way in the early days of afghanistan and they used the elevation drum basically only when at the range. Thanks for this vid, even an old army guy like me didnt get this knowledge.
As someone who owns an A2 and A4, I love the iron sights for shooting at a range
I like the A4 for having a scope, red dot, or even just a rear iron sight attachment that isn't a carry handle style
I modified my A2 rear sight with an un-marked 1/4 MOA value elevation wheel and windage knob. Thereafter, I sighted in on The MR-31 Target using a 6 o’clock hold with the elevation wheel 8 clicks up from bottom, which allowed me to use a center of mass hold should I prefer. Then from ballistics calculation I painted the elevation wheel for 200, 300, 500, and 600 yard bullet drop compensation for the ammunition type used at each of those distances. This effort got me good elevation adjustment for distance without need for sight-in shots, which is important in CMP governed US Service Rifle Competition. My results in that competition lead to me earning the US Distinguished Rifleman Badge in just a few seasons. My point here is study your shooting application and then pick a zero distance that makes that zero an appropriate placeholder from which the sight can be quickly reset to another distance that you might be shooting to. This strategy is better than a battle sight zero when exacting accuracy is needed but it also allows for a quick adjustment to a 300 yard battle sight zero.
You have melted my mind with your eldritch knowledge from the Old Ones. Now I need to build a retro rifle and try it
The best iron sights ever put on any variant of the M16 period. They absolutely rock.
I'm personally a huge fan of 300 yard or meter zeros for ironsights, but I gotta admit that this is a really clever little hack. I'd be interested to see what other cool little tricks translate well between the world of High Power Rifle and more practical firearms employment.
Army carry handle sights were set to bottom out at 8/3 (6/3). USMC carry handles were set to go 2 clicks below 8/3 (6/3) to have a 200 yd setting
Given my experience as an infantry Drill Sergeant and NCO back in the tail end of the Cold War and beginning of the post-Soviet era, I have used the Santos IBZO method (or some variation of it, modified as ballistics direct) since I heard about it, about 20 years ago.
Frankly, most average trained shooters have enough trouble at 300m, even under the fairly low stress of Army annual qual (where you could technically miss all four 300m targets and still make "Expert" under the pre-2020 standards.)
Other than "precision" platforms, I tend to use the logical basis of the IBZO (Maximum Point Blank Range, or MPBR, zero). I select the target size i want to be able to hit, divide that diameter by four (half to account for stress, and another half account for maximum ordinate above and maximum ordinate below), and try to figure the near and far zeros for that max ordinate - usually, I end using the height of the sights over bore for any AR type platform. Now, the barrel length, clambering, and load will all affect the ballistic track, so you will have differing zero ranges for different guns (or even vastly different loads in the same gun - .300BLK supers versus subs, for instance), but the concept holds true. And will still likely yield a "Minute of Facemeat" zero for a center hold to most credible lawful defensive shoot ranges, and "Minute of Ribcage" farther than that. Even with, say, a 9x19mm PCC with a SMG length barrel and 124gr +P or equivalent loads, this is surprisingly farther than one would think.
Is it the most precise way to zero? No. That's why I don't use it on rifles I would expect to want a dope card taped to the stock. But, it does yield a very *shootable* rifle under stress, optimized for the highest stress environments.
Even when the rifle is primarily aimed towards close range stuff (like the "house carbine"), i use this. It's easier to remember a "hairline hold in hallways" (which is still adequate for good hits even with a center sternum hold) than to try to deal with the ballistics arc of a 5.56mm you zeroed at, say 15 meters if the target is at, say 100m (the rough length of my driveway, which is an *unlikely* but *feasible* scenario).
My Bushmaster A2 has been zeroed at 50 yards on the 300 yd notch for 20 years and I never realized that the numbers didn't actually line up until now 😂 thanks for the video, I'm going to adjust it next time I go to the range.
Very cool. In the Marine Corps I qualified with the M16A2 with Irons in 2003 using the standard method. In 2004, I got orders to go to Iraq for OIF2. Prior to that, I got shipped off to Camp Pendleton for some Desert Warfare training and grabbed our rifles and zero them in. If I remember, we only did a quick BZO using Irons. 0-300 Yds and that was good to go.
2007 my last year in the Corps, we switched over to the M16A4 Platform. We zero'd a bit differently because we finally got to qualify with ACOGS and/or Back Up sights. To me, made a big difference and made qual a cake walk. M16A4 had the HBAR too. That was pretty sweet to shoot.
So many people screw up this explanation and half way through describing it they sound like Joe Biden. This guy got it right on with no stumbling. Thanks brother I found the right video finally that would help me understand. Hitting the range this weekend.
I have 1 a2 rifle, just for the awesome irons. Camp pendleton range was fun!
thanks for that . Im an irons guy and this is just great to know about and makes the consept of running irons exclusively just that much more usable and enjoyable. take care.
Always loved this varient of the m16's look. Glad you covered one
I qualified on a 16a2 in BCT. In my time in the army, you zeroed your rifle (new to you, after shipping somewhere) and then you left it alone. You shot your qualifications and you carried it around, but you didn't mess with the sights.
I also remember that. We zeroed, then left it alone, using holdovers for different ranges. We never messed with the sights after that.
That's what I remember. 25 meter zero on paper. Rotate up one click from 300 meter setting, adjust sights to center group, the drop back down to 300 meter. Then never, ever, ever touch the damn thing again. I never heard of a 50/200 zero before. I'm assuming the other branches did things differently than the Army?
That's brilliant! Especially since I had to bright the front post way up on my M4... by doing this I can bring it slightly down again.
Right on!
Sweet memories from 1985.
(I got started late in life. Still had my draft card.)
This is what my PMI at Parris Island taught us once we made it to the fleet, back in 2002. Cool info.
I qualified with that rifle at Parris Island and Camp Hansen.
Great Rifle.
I prefer the RIBZ instead of IBZ since it also gives you a 100 yard setting. It’s done by going back 8 clicks instead of 6. Then you use nail polish to mark your 50 (4clicks back) & 100 (6clicks back) settings on the drum. The reason you lock it down at 8 clicks is so the drum is not bottomed out on you 100 setting.
I joined the Army as an 11C (infantry mortar crewman) in 1975 and the A1 was the weapon. The rear sight was windage with the fore sight elevation. I was able to get a battlesight zero for 250 m with no problem, and the last time I qualified was two years later, just before transferring to the field artillery as a 13F. We had just gotten back from the range and I had the best zero I ever had, and that weapon was grouped dead center on the Canadian Bull, with a very tight group. Requalified expert (maybe missed one target) and I was really pleased with that weapon. But then, upon turn-in, the armorer wouldn't give me my weapons card back! Apparently some numb nut had decided to shift weapons around, and though I begged and pleaded to let me keep that weapon, it was to no avail. I was sorely pissed off.
I've run through people trying to tell me how to zero an A2, and I got to say it makes no sense at all. Fortunately, at 73 years old I don't need to zero anything any longer. But I still miss my beautifully zeroed-in M16A1.
I will say that in a defensive scenario where you’ll be able to establish TRPs and you’d have time to figure out the distances you could really get the most out of you’re adjustable sights
That's the point of the sector sketch and range card system though, right?
This makes a ton of sense, kind of taps into the whole "no plan survives contact with the enemy." All the range-driven pedagogy needs to be re-evaluated for real life conditions
Ive watched your video many times, not because it was hard to understand but I enjoyed your easy going presentation. Ill do what you showed and just keep mine on the 50/200 as that will cover 99% of my shooting. When I start making my own ammo I guess I will have to make sure my improved battlesight zero is still good to go.
Excellent info. Always loved the look of the A1 and A2, have always wanted a hybrid of sorts, basically an A2 with the A1s triangular handguard... that's just what's stuck in my mind from seeing them as a kid :)
Glad it was helpful!
When I learned the A2 in Marine Corps boot camp we did a 36/300 zero on the 8/3 setting. When qualifying at 200 yards we went to 8/3 -1 or -2, 300 was 8/3, and 500 was 5. I've used a couple A2s that wouldn't go to -2 so it's interesting to know why.
the factory sets them to 8/3, then when the rifles are del8verd to the Marines, 2111 adjust them -3 8/3-3 what i was told by a 2111 friend of mine. The we BZO, we went 3 clicks up to 8/3 for a 300 yard. when i tell people the Marines sight in ano5her way from the Army 25 metter thier heads blow up..lol
Very well done sir. Best explanation with no superfluous BS.
Love my trusty HBAR Colt. Now I think Ill take it to the range. Had it since 1988.
Liked and subbed. Thank you.
Very good info, some times the old ways are best.
I've got a Fulton Armory FAR-15 A2 and it is absolutely an M-16A2 clone with the exception of having Fulton's .223 hybrid match chamber, but in a 1:7 twist, gov't barrel. They actually sent my rifle out with this already done! It's pretty amazing. I was able to go 3 clicks down from the 3/8 setting and zero the rifle at 100 yards and it lobbed 55gr fmj's in at 300 yards with minimal correction needed. The M-16A2 with it's irons might be more than you'd need in a combat rifle, but who said that was a bad thing? Seriously! You can set it and forget it just as easily, but you have that adjustment option! Yeah, I know about the whole thing with "idle hands" thing, but do you, the avid shooter, have the restraint to not mess up the zero on your rifle? Just sayin'... :p
Hello everyone, I am Taiwanese. I like this M16A2 rifle very much. It can be used as a sniper rifle. The handle can be equipped with a sniper scope and the barrel can be equipped with a silencer.
The Santose zero!! been using it for a while and it absolutely works.
Interesting!
After watching that i appreciate the decision for the original issue austrian AUG sight even more.
It was zeroed to teh shooter, shooting at a target at 200m. ->so the middle of the target was the middle of the "donut".
Anythig closer didn't matter much as the target becomes bigger and things at around 300 were in the lower half of the donut. Easy enough to use for any conscript who never fired a gun before and didn't need to know anything about balistics or trajectory of the bullet. (even though we were told about it and got a book where it was covered)
The 1.5x donut may not be as accurate for range use, but not having to dial anything yourself and just make sure the target is inside a circle makes it faster and easier for the common person.
And judging by the scores in live shooting i remember, it made a lot of sense.
Thanks for the quality content as always!
Holy shit! Karl! Thanks, that’s very useful.
Thank you bro.! Very high speed !Confident instruction, gen. Z, listen up : This is what a role model looks like. 👍
They make A2 style rear sights that work with a front sight block, the give you the same sight picture, kinda look like just the back of a carry handle A2 sight and give the same sighting ability as a carry handle, but with free space on the pic rail for A4 styles
After the A2 Upper, it's my favorite sighting system for modern ARs, since they allow other sighting systems to be used for full cowitness or lower 1/3
In case anyone likes the sighting system but doesn't want a carry handle(be it upper, or a detachable one)
Pure gold. Thank you so much Karl.
Glad you enjoyed it!
1:31 I agree. I don't typically shoot iron sights and took my M4 with a carry handle iron sight to a long distance range. I was pinging an 18"x18" steel target with ease at 400 yards. the BDC even worked like it should.
Cool, this will be very handy once I complete my build.
Did this 10 years ago, it works
Something to keep in mind for my next trip to the range.
I do agree that with todays optics, it makes things easier, but I firmly believe in knowing the old irons. There are some optics out there that keep it simple, and other that complicate things. This, by far was one of the best inventions for the battle rifle. REMEMBER, Marines were engaging targets at the 600 in WW I. Just because we can't see things as well these days, doesn't mean that those feats were not accomplished. After shooting Marine rifle ranges, and going to another branches ranges, hitting targets was easy, and I learned it all the BASICS at PI.
Wow
I really appreciate this.
I thought this was way easier.
I’m building a 20” A2 currently.
XM177E2 is done but not improved sight!
Thank you again.
Glad it helped!
Just got a ArmaLite M15A2 was looking at this zero to set the gun up, but articles are confusing. Thanks Karl!
Hmmm. This makes me think that at least when I entered the Marines in 2005 this had been done as a majority of cases we were 8/3-2 at 200 yards. Some people would zero to a -1 and some people had to -1 at 300. I figured that was always the way they worked. The odd thing is we still zeroed for 300 yards. Probably because you can use the 36yd/300yd short range zero still.
Anyways, interesting to learn this wasn't a "feature" from the get go.
That was very informative and useful!
Glad you think so!
Good to see the rifle was on safe.
When I was in the Marines from 99 to 05 I was issued an M-16A2. I loved it and hated it. But it served me well in Iraq. But it's ironic that my personal rifle I own today is a ZPAP M70....a weapon based off the "rifle of the enemy"
Last November I shot in a Marine Heritage Shoot hosted by the New Jersey Arms Collectors Club. I used a M16A4 clone and a Dissapator, both with iron sights. It was fun but a 100 yards shooting a B8 target was like doting an "i" with the front sight. It was fun but this year I'm using a Hawke 1-8 LPVO and irons on the Dissipator
In usmc we did 36yd/300yd BZO. Same effect achieved with maintaining ability to dial
As a knuckle-dragging service rifle competitor i cant walk away from dialing
Our rear sights were adjusted to 8/3-3 or 6/3-3. we adjusted 3 clicks up to 8/3 when we BZO in
@@esmith3438.. Did you then use 8/3-2 for 100 and 8/3-1 for 200 yards?
@@Allenmar73 Yes. -2 for 200 yards. 2 clicks ups
This is the same settings USMC M16-A2 had. The first time I picked up a US Army M16-A2 I was confused because I thought this normal for all A2s didn't realize it was proprietary to Marines. Qualified expert everytime 500m was my bread and butter picked up points I would lose at the 300m. For some strange reason the 300m was my Kryptonite.
Hop’s video led me here lol he wasn’t lying
The Santos Improved Battle Sight Zero: the 1st click is 100 yard, 2nd click 50/200 yard, and 3rd click 300/800. For the A2 drum.
I’m gonna try this
Thank you. 👍
There is no more pleasant rifle to just lay on a shooting mat in the prone and shoot than an M16A2.
@wyomarine6341 brother, formal qualification does not play into it when shooting for the sheer enjoyment of shooting. There was life before the military, and there is life after the military, and now that I have to buy all my own ammo again, laying down behind an A2 is like spending time with an old friend. Damn near therapeutic.
What the M16a2 lacked as a military rifle, it makes up for being a awesome civilian rifle.
You can also just zero for 300m, use the 0-2 as needed, and understand your very minimal hold-unders at 100-200. The IBZ is a solution looking for a problem, unless you're going for max precision on a target range.
Y’all should take a look at and compare HT orca (3d printed AR) vs the WWSD as it seems to sort of follow along with similar ideology on weight and performance based around needs.
The A2 is probably the most visually appealing of the US service ARs. Here's a question I never thought of before: Did the A3 immediately do away with the A2's thicker barrel, or did it stay until the A4?
The A2 "Government profile" barrel remains to this day in the A4 along with the early M4 Carbine
The only differing factor between the A2 and A3 is that the A3 retains the full automatic fire-control group of the A1, while the A2 uses a burst fire-control group. Everything else is practically identical.
@@TheSundayShooter Really? I thought for certain they would've lightened the barrels by now
@@JunkyardBashSteve The A3 wasn't really a successor to the A2. The Navy wanted some rifles in full auto instead of burst and it was designated the A3. It's just an A2 that's full auto. Nothing more, nothing less.
The US Army never qualified on the known distance range in recent history. I was in the infantry for 25 years and the only known distance range I ever went to was the 25 meter range to zero my rifle.
Sweet tip
That's a cool tip. Great video 👍
Have you JB Welded a gas deflector onto that charging handle?
Keep up the good work Karl.
Great video!
Good to know, thanks.
The M16A2/A4 is still a better combat weapon than an M4 or any other short barreled M16 derivative.
The 20-inch barrel on the A2, A3, or A4 give full ballistic and terminal potential to 5.56/.223, the full-length gas system gives higher reliability than an M4 and also offers slightly less recoil.
G.I.'s in the Army and ground pounders in any other branch, might clamor for the shortness and lighter weight potential of the M4?
But if they do, they are missing out on being able to kill better, slightly farther, and more reliably with an A2, A3, or A4 "musket".
As a former Artilleryman, we would much prefer a shorter and lighter rifle that is easier to carry, as our main weapon is substantially bigger and can hit much farther.
Holy shit! Never knew that??? Back then from the late 80s until the early 2000s when M16A2s was set to 8/3 and move one click forward to zero at 25 meters. If the way I zeroed was fucked up oh well. I'm still here survived the Panama Invasion and Iraq. We were trained that way...🤔🤔
M16A2 is quite a modern gun coming out im the 1980s
That's a great hack! Thanks Karl.
Are those cactus flowers over your right shoulder?
Yes they are!
Awesome tip
That was a top secret set screw
Try adjusting that rear site only two clicks instead of four. Or maybe three clicks instead of four. however you can do whatever you want with your own rifle.
cool and thanks for the video.
like the new thumbnail style
I have an Olympic arms clone of this from the early 90s
I served with the A1 and a 25 meter zero...good times
Absolute best training film ever on the A2 sight system.
You should check out the Santos battle sight zero. Even better, IMHO.
Can you do the M4 with detachable carry handle next . I hear different clicks from different sources on that rifle and it’s confusing In-N-Out there
What ammo do I used for the iron sights? I’m a m855 fanboy, but am willing to change for accuracy.
Along with this, I heard a rumor that the rear peep when flipped to the larger aperture, would also do the same...or at least the intent was.
The rear aperture is really intended for lowlight, not necessarily CQB.
The 0-2 aperture is intended for low light and general engagement while the smaller aperture is intended for known distance and precision. If you have the sights zeroed with the small peep to 300 meters, then the 0-2 will be a center-mass hold from 0 to 200 meters.
@@MarkiusFox I'm assuming you probably have to use the peep sights that aren't labeled "same plane" for that right?
@@bryanlee78 If it's to spec, they shouldn't be same plane.
Cadillac of the battlefield
I have kept the iron sights of my A2 at 300 for nearly 40 years. By the time you're far enough away that I can't hit you tye 5.56 in any form is ineffective.
There's been a lot of terminal ballistics success past 300 with 69-77 grain match loads, most notably with the 77 grain Sierra Matchking.
I 100% prefer the setup provided with the M16/M16A1
Really wish I could get an A2 upper. On the alert list for multiple stores waiting for someone to have it in stock.
@@stanton7847 The one they have is a completely bare upper. Not really looking for something I have to hunt down all the parts for.