Do you really think the cables have to brake in? What does that even mean? I could accept thicker cabling is beneficial, and that the drivers really can need a looong time to brake in, but as solid state physicist the cable break in doesn't make any sense to me.
Just buy any music instrument, and you will realize that anything made out of wood goes through a break-in period as it is being played, ageing, and adaptation to temperature and humidity. Musicians can tell a lot about this process, and how fundamentally it impacts tone. A guitar or a violin can take a year or longer to break in, as the vibrations in the cabinet cause subtle alterations in the alignment of the fibers in the wood, and allow the whole cabinet to resonate and transfer energy fast, instead of the resonances being restricted to hot-spots with slow energy transfer to air. The wood also has to settle to the humidity and temperature in your room, and the resonant modes will change during that process. If the cabinet is made out of concrete or marble, this is not happening. Also, there is no noticeable break in in homogeneous materials such as MDF or HDF. The cabinet break in affects the tone. In case someone is "tone deaf", the cabinet break in (or music instrument break in) process will be entirely unnoticed. However, in case you are looking for tone (violin, cello, guitar, piano), the cabinet break in will likely make the difference between unacceptable and acceptable. ... sorry, just noticed you asked about cable, not cabinet. Cables: just listen to them. Especially silver cables, the change in how they sound can be so vast even folks with hearing aid can tell it without much fuss. I'm not that knowledgeable on what happens exactly inside the metal during break-in. Cable break-in is something very obvious, that every audiophile notices who has decent level gear. Just think about satellites need to be burned-in for optimal signal transmission... maybe that field can give you clues if you can navigate the literature.
Put the speakers so the baffle and driver's are facing each other. Switch the polarity on one of the speakers. Now when one of the woofer goes in the other going out and we have a cancellation effect. Now you can break in without disturbing the environment OR you can play a little bit louder. And this may shortening the break in time when you are able to play without disturbing anybody when you're at work or something. Or maybe a little bit louder may make the suspension to loosen up earlier. But don't overdrive the drivers.
Thank You Janos, Your help is encouraging me, because You describe so exactly what I hear! Yes, I turn the Volume louder, because of this missing mid/lower bass, and then it hurts the ears... I am very thankful for Your experienced help and, I feel a bit shy to recieve such prominent help 😊 So for braking in I chose some downloaded sinus tone-files, one 15Hz, 20Hz and a sinus sweep 20-200Hz, and pink noise. I let the 15/20/20-200 Hz Sinus run in an endless loop and mix the pink noise also looped with a second player app in, so the Membranes are dancing permanently up and down while making noise. Maybe I dont need the pink noise mixed in? I thought that would make them more flexible. The cabinet I used 2,5cm MDF as it is in the original build in the magazine audiophile. For dampening I used 3 layers of 3mm thick handicraft felt with 750 g/qm density, which is relatively light, you can tear it off, if you use a lot of strenth. (Hiragas Petite wanted 1cm thick felt with 1500g/qm density) The internal wire I chose to use the solidcore way with 6x Ø 0,50 mm enamelled copperwire twisted together each for one the + and one for the - , maybe I should add some more threads of this transformer wire. The Petites did run now permanently 50hrs with the sinus sweeps and pink noise, and today I could hear a notably improvement! The deep bass appeared and the Petite has a full and bodily sound! Male voices like "From Russia with Love" Bond song come full and rich, but as soon as there are higher violins or a big orchestra, it gets still harsh, like an natural resonance at 1k, especially electric guitars (Nick Cave) hurt the ears. The adventure continues! 😃
Yes, adding the ponk noise was a very good idea. Just a few discrete Hz will just burn it in at those specific frequencies, and also it's pretty hard on both suspension and cone material. I prefer to burn drivers in with music, as it contains a wide array of frequencies and is also gentle on the cone. Burning real hard before driver is ready can tear the fibers. I prefer progressive burn-in: initially do not push the driver hard, and let it warm up at its own pace. And as it does go deeper and louder. I hope the kHz instability will diminish and go away in time. All the Fostex drivers I ran across had that nastiness, and all went away after 400 or so hours.. Good luck! BTW, I've been listening to a lot of Bond songs lately.... Harry Mancini's are just so classic and timeless. ; ).
One question: did you recess the driver, or is the frame in the front of the cabinet? Recessing the driver will lower that resonance, and as Frank wrote below, adding a felt circle surrounding the driver will soften the resonances around 1kHz.
@@realworldaudio No, I did not recess the driver, since I wanted to rebuild the original authentically. So I consider to put them inside without changing volume, just to see how it works, or I recess it as You say, or I completely build a new cabinet out of spruce, but it is pity, I veneered this cabinet with indian apple wood, it looks very beautiful. (Spruce is very cheap in Austria ;) ) On the other hand, there is this idea to make a standing loudspeaker with 2 FE-103... like put 2 petites on each other head on head 😃
@@realworldaudio So a small update! I tried Your advice of putting the driver INTO the cabinet of my Petite build, beacause it has still this nasty 1kHz own resonance and the valley at 2kHz, and the result was: It sounded first of all muffled, the higths where gone. Then I realised, I have to turn them in to let the chassis face me directly in the triangle setting. Now the higth range was back, and the sound was more dynamic, less 1kHz "natural" resonance, a little bit more mids, for my taste "too shouty", and this phenomenal wide open 3D soundstage was narrowed down between the 2 speakers, and I could kinda more "hear" the speakers themselves, before the speakers where totally vanished, so great was the soundstage. It gave me a bit the feeling of a directed horn. So I took them out again, its back to huge soundstage, clear sparkling high range, and a nasty 1kHz "natural" resonance, like in the strings, electr. guitar or high pitched voice. I ordered a router, then I will try next step, make the chassis flush!
Some put a thick felt pad with a cutout arround speakers or tweeters ............you also can do that with the proeminent SP1300 from Celestion used in some speakers like the BC1 and BW etc.................regularized also that delicate frequency region......
Thank you Frank! Yes, that's a superb way to smoothen those midrange resonances. Also, adding the felt is like recessing the driver in addition to softening the resonances, so it also removes the baffle step error of the basket frame around 1-2kHz. ;
YEP changing the internal wiring does make a difference on mostly all speakers.......be it one exception already wired with decent wiring.........I use solid core ....or mulitple solid core........I never regretted that modification !
I eventually want to run silver wire ALL the way, from source, through the amp, to the speakers. I wonder how that would sound? From Janos' expertise, I'd surmise it'd be pretty nice. 😍
@@FireTriode Hello Cory...........right silver all the way but beware .........its shines also by NOT forgiving.... Most systems relay on copper......so using copper of good quality shines also......mixing different materials is giving different resuts.
@@FireTriode Try it Cory.........copper and silver come also in different grades of quality . To be consistent all should be in same materials and as little quantity as possible. Most cases that is not possible ........it will allways be like the recepy of the cook...tastfull or not. Once I used nice silver wire for IC and Gold plated RCA of a renowed brand................IT DIDN'T WORK !!!!!!!!!........was like the high bounced into a wall and had a headache.... But as told YBA me once , stay as much as possible with the same choice from begin to the end................and that kind of signature is coherent be it copper or silver. I tried copper OFC and never liked it ...........then I tried copper OCC..........and that made me smile. A lot of copper wire today is made by recycled copper......... Silver is also available in purity ...........sometimes even as OCC..... Good to have a passion and dreams.............;but only the experience will tell you your truth. Some systems work fine witout silver ............;some systems with silver I run away.......and only the results count......the proof of the pudding is in its eating. Have a nice day
@@FireTriode Hi Cory, yes, silver exposes all hidden irregularities. I take it as a welcome happening, as it gives opportunity to weed out so much more issues. Just be mindful that when you change a bit to silver, then wait until it fully breaks in, as the tonality changes greatly over the burn in period. If you change a lot at the same time, the effect can be a brutal shift toward high frequencies, but it will pass with break in..
I concur with your thoughts on driver break-in, especially with Fostex. I've had 3 pairs of FE Series drivers, and they do sound a bit "shrill" for the first couple hundred hours. I also had 108 Sigmas, gave up on that pair. I'm extremely pleased with my current FE126-NVs, they simply bring joyful music every time that I listen. I'm still eyeing those new FE108SS-HPs. 😉 They are "only" 88 dB vs. my current 92 dB drivers. Don't you just love the "upgrade" bug? 😁
Hi Cory, what I noticed is that going down with efficiency is never getting what I wanted. Will get you a more "polite" or "in control" or "straight-jacketed" sound, will give the ability to position the speakers a little easier, but it never got me better connection to the music. It's like taking away life from the sound.... I have not gotten around with completing the driver review for Le Petit, just got to a few drivers so far... however, have looked at many drivers and I think the FE126NV would be the most promising one. ;). Hold on to it! :)
Janos, can you expand a bit more on the internal wireing? What is causing this? Also in your cube audio video you show using 4x the thickness on the - terminal compared to +, saying it helps with bass output, how so? And for the external wires, should they also be as "fat" as possible? I have a pair of FE206en in Fostex recommended back horns and I'm experimenting with various mods. In example, trying an ultrathin and long (5m) solidcore copper cable sourced from the CAT 5 ethernet cable brought significant low-mid bass boost, acting as a voltage divider with added reaistance. I since built a SET mosfet amp (Pass) with higher Rout and that helped even further. Recently i have been trying a simple baffle step correction network (resistor and inductor paralleled in series). That has a massive effect obviously, but i would really like to not have to use it as it sort of "tarnishes" the purity of a single driver approach. I reall enjoy these discussiins on LePetit, keep it coming:)
Keeping negative thicker favors lower frequencies - keeping positive thicker favors high frequencies... usually keeping twice the gauge for negative is a standard practice, but in this case I went to this extreme because I wanted it to reach very low... and it does, with authority that would shame even most high quality subwoofers. I've seen this every time though - internal wiring is the true bottleneck for bass with smaller woofers & single drivers. CAT5 tip: remove the outer plastic layer!! Have fun! ;
Thank you Janos for your explanations, very interesting. I didn't know until today that you have to break in chassis like a car. In the meantime I have ordered my chassis for the Le Petit and also made a drawing for the box. In the process, I noticed that I don't know where to mount the chassis in the box. Horizontal is easy, in the middle. Vertically I only have a rough idea. Can you tell me what the distance is from the top edge of the box to the center of the chassis? Thank you in advance for your help.
1. The original Petite´s higth is 54,6cm, the center of the chassis is 12,3cm from the top edge. Janos´ harmonic cabinet higth is (with 2,5cm wall strength: inner higth + 2 x 2,5cm wall) 51,8+5=56,8, so we have a higth increase of 2,2cm. 2. At the original Petite the chassis sits exactly 1/2 between the top corner of the cabinet and the top corner of the additional front baffle. But of course we don´t have the aditional front baffle anymore. 3. To concur with the total added higth I would position the chassis half of the higth increase lower, 1,1cm added from the top edge, =13,4 cm in that case then. 4. Since the lower additional baffle is not there anymore itwould also be possible to position the driver in such a way, that the distance to the sides is similar to the top edge, what would give more harmony to the picture. I would also consider to rounden the outer corners of the front baffle. But I think Janos will maybe have more decent ideas!
@@Iam-mad Thank you for your detailed description. It all sounds very comprehensible. Let's see if Janos wants to write something else about it, otherwise I'll drill the hole as you indicated. 😉
@@datanostra Thank you Jürgen for answering Thilo's question! 👍👍✨✨His suggestions are all good! The front extra baffle gone, and with the port as a slot port we can either keep it at it's original place or play around with it. In the original design the distance of the driver from top was linked to the distance of port from bottom. Moving the port to the bottom for a slot port frees us with more options for driver placement. My suggestion would be to put it at a same distance from the top as from the side (center to side and center to top distance is equal) - this gives us the most front baffle loading while keeping it as high as possible.
Hahahaha Janos after my comment you spoke about using felt ......trying felt in different thicknesses ....well maybe I should watch the whole video before to comment hahaha....
@@realworldaudio hahaha; yes it's even funny...........I can't resist to post before viewing the video...hahaha......ESP sometimes I wonder in this material world...where non material is denied.......I will ask the creator ....creating material universe out of spiritual consciousness ? I think he understands the music his creation makes.
Run in is good advice.................do it gradualy to loose the suspension evenly ............. Brutal run in operation may cause different patterns of fibre modes .............beware somewhat; Same goes for easing the rigidity of the...........SPIDER .........use good music no techno before run in ............ For the fun , one could run in some speakers on the wall AC line .hahahaha, some may remember those speakers ..........Cerwin Vega ( line voltage certified )..............with the red surrounds..........still laughing with these vintage advertisements almost forthy years later...........together with the forgotten class H amplifiers like the Soundcraftsman or Technics ...........
✨✨✨✨ Burning in at specific frequencies will shift the response of the driver, it's like tuning an instrument, or, a more precise analogy - bone remodeling in the human body. We develop bone strength that is proportionate to the direction of the stress that the bone endures... same goes for the cones & surrounds & spiders, each frequency and excursion requires its own resonance modes, its own restructuring...
@@realworldaudio YEP Janos ..................we played with burning in duringthe nienties atbthe shop with same new speakers ................one was fed Heavy Metal at full level and until the glue smelled............another with classical and melodic music at gentle ,level....................Bot sounde VERY different afterwards.............the latter need several days before to bloom into full musical potential..............the first never came close ........... Also two sets of speakers DO not sound allways the same................minor changes in components ( mainly cross X ) be it in the filter or texture of the wood ................ My brother choose long ago the Dan Appolito speaker made in pure wood ( no mdf )..............the ARIA 5.................it sounded very good somewhat like a QUAD electrostatic....................He refused to buy the demo pair that deliverd the music...........HE WANTED NEW OUT OF THE BOX................I told him not to do so and keep the demo pair....The new pâir was made by FOCAL..................they never delivred the same .................NEVER ...............he sold them. By the way the original was build wit the same FOCAL drivers .................but the filter was made by FOCAL on his pair ........... Same thing when I cjhoose a high quality CRT TV.....................I choose the one with the image I liked ..............the seller would give me a new set ..............I refused and bought the opne in demo I choose and I never regretted to have choosen that one.....................the image is till beautifull 20 years later...............and people make comments about it even the flat screen rules since then.
Yes, people always underestimate that there is such diversity between units, and that a well and properly broken in pair can be quite a bit better than a brand new pair in the box.... Thank you for sharing on the break-in fiasco with the metal, people need to be more aware that what we play on the music really affects how the unit will sound.... My experience was that whatever you want to listen to, that's the best material to break it in with...
Do you really think the cables have to brake in? What does that even mean? I could accept thicker cabling is beneficial, and that the drivers really can need a looong time to brake in, but as solid state physicist the cable break in doesn't make any sense to me.
Just buy any music instrument, and you will realize that anything made out of wood goes through a break-in period as it is being played, ageing, and adaptation to temperature and humidity. Musicians can tell a lot about this process, and how fundamentally it impacts tone. A guitar or a violin can take a year or longer to break in, as the vibrations in the cabinet cause subtle alterations in the alignment of the fibers in the wood, and allow the whole cabinet to resonate and transfer energy fast, instead of the resonances being restricted to hot-spots with slow energy transfer to air. The wood also has to settle to the humidity and temperature in your room, and the resonant modes will change during that process. If the cabinet is made out of concrete or marble, this is not happening. Also, there is no noticeable break in in homogeneous materials such as MDF or HDF.
The cabinet break in affects the tone. In case someone is "tone deaf", the cabinet break in (or music instrument break in) process will be entirely unnoticed. However, in case you are looking for tone (violin, cello, guitar, piano), the cabinet break in will likely make the difference between unacceptable and acceptable. ... sorry, just noticed you asked about cable, not cabinet.
Cables: just listen to them. Especially silver cables, the change in how they sound can be so vast even folks with hearing aid can tell it without much fuss. I'm not that knowledgeable on what happens exactly inside the metal during break-in. Cable break-in is something very obvious, that every audiophile notices who has decent level gear. Just think about satellites need to be burned-in for optimal signal transmission... maybe that field can give you clues if you can navigate the literature.
Put the speakers so the baffle and driver's are facing each other.
Switch the polarity on one of the speakers.
Now when one of the woofer goes in the other going out and we have a cancellation effect.
Now you can break in without disturbing the environment OR you can play a little bit louder.
And this may shortening the break in time when you are able to play without disturbing anybody when you're at work or something.
Or maybe a little bit louder may make the suspension to loosen up earlier.
But don't overdrive the drivers.
Your advice is spot on, I did that yesterday, and it "swallows" all the deep frequencies (my wife could hear) 😉
Nice tip!
Thank You Janos, Your help is encouraging me, because You describe so exactly what I hear! Yes, I turn the Volume louder, because of this missing mid/lower bass, and then it hurts the ears... I am very thankful for Your experienced help and, I feel a bit shy to recieve such prominent help 😊
So for braking in I chose some downloaded sinus tone-files, one 15Hz, 20Hz and a sinus sweep 20-200Hz, and pink noise. I let the 15/20/20-200 Hz Sinus run in an endless loop and mix the pink noise also looped with a second player app in, so the Membranes are dancing permanently up and down while making noise. Maybe I dont need the pink noise mixed in? I thought that would make them more flexible.
The cabinet I used 2,5cm MDF as it is in the original build in the magazine audiophile. For dampening I used 3 layers of 3mm thick handicraft felt with 750 g/qm density, which is relatively light, you can tear it off, if you use a lot of strenth. (Hiragas Petite wanted 1cm thick felt with 1500g/qm density)
The internal wire I chose to use the solidcore way with 6x Ø 0,50 mm enamelled copperwire twisted together each for one the + and one for the - , maybe I should add some more threads of this transformer wire.
The Petites did run now permanently 50hrs with the sinus sweeps and pink noise, and today I could hear a notably improvement! The deep bass appeared and the Petite has a full and bodily sound! Male voices like "From Russia with Love" Bond song come full and rich, but as soon as there are higher violins or a big orchestra, it gets still harsh, like an natural resonance at 1k, especially electric guitars (Nick Cave) hurt the ears.
The adventure continues! 😃
Yes, adding the ponk noise was a very good idea. Just a few discrete Hz will just burn it in at those specific frequencies, and also it's pretty hard on both suspension and cone material. I prefer to burn drivers in with music, as it contains a wide array of frequencies and is also gentle on the cone. Burning real hard before driver is ready can tear the fibers. I prefer progressive burn-in: initially do not push the driver hard, and let it warm up at its own pace. And as it does go deeper and louder.
I hope the kHz instability will diminish and go away in time. All the Fostex drivers I ran across had that nastiness, and all went away after 400 or so hours.. Good luck! BTW, I've been listening to a lot of Bond songs lately.... Harry Mancini's are just so classic and timeless. ; ).
One question: did you recess the driver, or is the frame in the front of the cabinet? Recessing the driver will lower that resonance, and as Frank wrote below, adding a felt circle surrounding the driver will soften the resonances around 1kHz.
@@realworldaudio No, I did not recess the driver, since I wanted to rebuild the original authentically.
So I consider to put them inside without changing volume, just to see how it works, or I recess it as You say, or I completely build a new cabinet out of spruce, but it is pity, I veneered this cabinet with indian apple wood, it looks very beautiful. (Spruce is very cheap in Austria ;) )
On the other hand, there is this idea to make a standing loudspeaker with 2 FE-103... like put 2 petites on each other head on head 😃
@@realworldaudio So a small update!
I tried Your advice of putting the driver INTO the cabinet of my Petite build, beacause it has still this nasty 1kHz own resonance and the valley at 2kHz, and the result was:
It sounded first of all muffled, the higths where gone. Then I realised, I have to turn them in to let the chassis face me directly in the triangle setting. Now the higth range was back, and the sound was more dynamic, less 1kHz "natural" resonance, a little bit more mids, for my taste "too shouty", and this phenomenal wide open 3D soundstage was narrowed down between the 2 speakers, and I could kinda more "hear" the speakers themselves, before the speakers where totally vanished, so great was the soundstage. It gave me a bit the feeling of a directed horn.
So I took them out again, its back to huge soundstage, clear sparkling high range, and a nasty 1kHz "natural" resonance, like in the strings, electr. guitar or high pitched voice.
I ordered a router, then I will try next step, make the chassis flush!
Some put a thick felt pad with a cutout arround speakers or tweeters ............you also can do that with the proeminent SP1300 from Celestion used in some speakers like the BC1 and BW etc.................regularized also that delicate frequency region......
Thank you Frank! Yes, that's a superb way to smoothen those midrange resonances. Also, adding the felt is like recessing the driver in addition to softening the resonances, so it also removes the baffle step error of the basket frame around 1-2kHz. ;
YEP changing the internal wiring does make a difference on mostly all speakers.......be it one exception already wired with decent wiring.........I use solid core ....or mulitple solid core........I never regretted that modification !
I eventually want to run silver wire ALL the way, from source, through the amp, to the speakers. I wonder how that would sound? From Janos' expertise, I'd surmise it'd be pretty nice. 😍
@@FireTriode Hello Cory...........right silver all the way but beware .........its shines also by NOT forgiving....
Most systems relay on copper......so using copper of good quality shines also......mixing different materials is giving different resuts.
@@FireTriode Try it Cory.........copper and silver come also in different grades of quality .
To be consistent all should be in same materials and as little quantity as possible.
Most cases that is not possible ........it will allways be like the recepy of the cook...tastfull or not.
Once I used nice silver wire for IC and Gold plated RCA of a renowed brand................IT DIDN'T WORK !!!!!!!!!........was like the high bounced into a wall and had a headache....
But as told YBA me once , stay as much as possible with the same choice from begin to the end................and that kind of signature is coherent be it copper or silver.
I tried copper OFC and never liked it ...........then I tried copper OCC..........and that made me smile.
A lot of copper wire today is made by recycled copper.........
Silver is also available in purity ...........sometimes even as OCC.....
Good to have a passion and dreams.............;but only the experience will tell you your truth.
Some systems work fine witout silver ............;some systems with silver I run away.......and only the results count......the proof of the pudding is in its eating.
Have a nice day
@@FireTriode Hi Cory, yes, silver exposes all hidden irregularities. I take it as a welcome happening, as it gives opportunity to weed out so much more issues. Just be mindful that when you change a bit to silver, then wait until it fully breaks in, as the tonality changes greatly over the burn in period. If you change a lot at the same time, the effect can be a brutal shift toward high frequencies, but it will pass with break in..
I concur with your thoughts on driver break-in, especially with Fostex. I've had 3 pairs of FE Series drivers, and they do sound a bit "shrill" for the first couple hundred hours. I also had 108 Sigmas, gave up on that pair. I'm extremely pleased with my current FE126-NVs, they simply bring joyful music every time that I listen.
I'm still eyeing those new FE108SS-HPs. 😉 They are "only" 88 dB vs. my current 92 dB drivers. Don't you just love the "upgrade" bug? 😁
Heard that several times Cory .........many like and prefer the 126...and I think they are right .
Hi Cory, what I noticed is that going down with efficiency is never getting what I wanted. Will get you a more "polite" or "in control" or "straight-jacketed" sound, will give the ability to position the speakers a little easier, but it never got me better connection to the music. It's like taking away life from the sound....
I have not gotten around with completing the driver review for Le Petit, just got to a few drivers so far... however, have looked at many drivers and I think the FE126NV would be the most promising one. ;). Hold on to it! :)
LePerfect.
Missed this episode of Bonanza..hahaha...............don't know why ?
Ha, Frank!
@@NickP333 hahaha .............on se retrouve chez Bonanza .......om aime les bonnes choses hahaha......😋
@@frankgeeraerts6243 A propos les bonnes choses... on les retrouve toujours! ;
@@realworldaudio OUI.............
Janos, can you expand a bit more on the internal wireing? What is causing this? Also in your cube audio video you show using 4x the thickness on the - terminal compared to +, saying it helps with bass output, how so? And for the external wires, should they also be as "fat" as possible?
I have a pair of FE206en in Fostex recommended back horns and I'm experimenting with various mods. In example, trying an ultrathin and long (5m) solidcore copper cable sourced from the CAT 5 ethernet cable brought significant low-mid bass boost, acting as a voltage divider with added reaistance. I since built a SET mosfet amp (Pass) with higher Rout and that helped even further. Recently i have been trying a simple baffle step correction network (resistor and inductor paralleled in series). That has a massive effect obviously, but i would really like to not have to use it as it sort of "tarnishes" the purity of a single driver approach.
I reall enjoy these discussiins on LePetit, keep it coming:)
Keeping negative thicker favors lower frequencies - keeping positive thicker favors high frequencies... usually keeping twice the gauge for negative is a standard practice, but in this case I went to this extreme because I wanted it to reach very low... and it does, with authority that would shame even most high quality subwoofers. I've seen this every time though - internal wiring is the true bottleneck for bass with smaller woofers & single drivers.
CAT5 tip: remove the outer plastic layer!! Have fun! ;
Thank you Janos for your explanations, very interesting. I didn't know until today that you have to break in chassis like a car.
In the meantime I have ordered my chassis for the Le Petit and also made a drawing for the box. In the process, I noticed that I don't know where to mount the chassis in the box. Horizontal is easy, in the middle. Vertically I only have a rough idea. Can you tell me what the distance is from the top edge of the box to the center of the chassis? Thank you in advance for your help.
1. The original Petite´s higth is 54,6cm, the center of the chassis is 12,3cm from the top edge. Janos´ harmonic cabinet higth is (with 2,5cm wall strength: inner higth + 2 x 2,5cm wall) 51,8+5=56,8, so we have a higth increase of 2,2cm.
2. At the original Petite the chassis sits exactly 1/2 between the top corner of the cabinet and the top corner of the additional front baffle. But of course we don´t have the aditional front baffle anymore.
3. To concur with the total added higth I would position the chassis half of the higth increase lower, 1,1cm added from the top edge, =13,4 cm in that case then.
4. Since the lower additional baffle is not there anymore itwould also be possible to position the driver in such a way, that the distance to the sides is similar to the top edge, what would give more harmony to the picture.
I would also consider to rounden the outer corners of the front baffle.
But I think Janos will maybe have more decent ideas!
@@Iam-mad Thank you for your detailed description. It all sounds very comprehensible. Let's see if Janos wants to write something else about it, otherwise I'll drill the hole as you indicated. 😉
@@datanostra Thank you Jürgen for answering Thilo's question! 👍👍✨✨His suggestions are all good! The front extra baffle gone, and with the port as a slot port we can either keep it at it's original place or play around with it. In the original design the distance of the driver from top was linked to the distance of port from bottom. Moving the port to the bottom for a slot port frees us with more options for driver placement. My suggestion would be to put it at a same distance from the top as from the side (center to side and center to top distance is equal) - this gives us the most front baffle loading while keeping it as high as possible.
@@realworldaudio Thanks for looking over that again. Now I know what I have to do. Thanks also again to Jürgen for his help.
@@datanostra Good luck with your build, ask if you have more questions! ; ✨✨👍👍
Hahahaha Janos after my comment you spoke about using felt ......trying felt in different thicknesses ....well maybe I should watch the whole video before to comment hahaha....
✨✨👍👍👍👍Frank, it's ESP... or more precisely knowledge. I'm always glad to read your predictions! :)
@@realworldaudio hahaha; yes it's even funny...........I can't resist to post before viewing the video...hahaha......ESP sometimes I wonder in this material world...where non material is denied.......I will ask the creator ....creating material universe out of spiritual consciousness ?
I think he understands the music his creation makes.
Run in is good advice.................do it gradualy to loose the suspension evenly .............
Brutal run in operation may cause different patterns of fibre modes .............beware somewhat;
Same goes for easing the rigidity of the...........SPIDER .........use good music no techno before run in ............
For the fun , one could run in some speakers on the wall AC line .hahahaha, some may remember those speakers ..........Cerwin Vega ( line voltage certified )..............with the red surrounds..........still laughing with these vintage advertisements almost forthy years later...........together with the forgotten class H amplifiers like the Soundcraftsman or Technics ...........
✨✨✨✨ Burning in at specific frequencies will shift the response of the driver, it's like tuning an instrument, or, a more precise analogy - bone remodeling in the human body. We develop bone strength that is proportionate to the direction of the stress that the bone endures... same goes for the cones & surrounds & spiders, each frequency and excursion requires its own resonance modes, its own restructuring...
@@realworldaudio YEP Janos ..................we played with burning in duringthe nienties atbthe shop with same new speakers ................one was fed Heavy Metal at full level and until the glue smelled............another with classical and melodic music at gentle ,level....................Bot sounde VERY different afterwards.............the latter need several days before to bloom into full musical potential..............the first never came close ...........
Also two sets of speakers DO not sound allways the same................minor changes in components ( mainly cross X ) be it in the filter or texture of the wood ................
My brother choose long ago the Dan Appolito speaker made in pure wood ( no mdf )..............the ARIA 5.................it sounded very good somewhat like a QUAD electrostatic....................He refused to buy the demo pair that deliverd the music...........HE WANTED NEW OUT OF THE BOX................I told him not to do so and keep the demo pair....The new pâir was made by FOCAL..................they never delivred the same .................NEVER ...............he sold them.
By the way the original was build wit the same FOCAL drivers .................but the filter was made by FOCAL on his pair ...........
Same thing when I cjhoose a high quality CRT TV.....................I choose the one with the image I liked ..............the seller would give me a new set ..............I refused and bought the opne in demo I choose and I never regretted to have choosen that one.....................the image is till beautifull 20 years later...............and people make comments about it even the flat screen rules since then.
Yes, people always underestimate that there is such diversity between units, and that a well and properly broken in pair can be quite a bit better than a brand new pair in the box....
Thank you for sharing on the break-in fiasco with the metal, people need to be more aware that what we play on the music really affects how the unit will sound....
My experience was that whatever you want to listen to, that's the best material to break it in with...