Burnishing leather edges- 3 simple ways

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 136

  • @AbsentWithoutLeaving
    @AbsentWithoutLeaving 7 ปีที่แล้ว +118

    Wow, you are definitely in the top tier of tutorial creators, this is clean and concise, and I don't have a single question, you gave all the info necessary and no random chatter. Love it.

    • @starioncostumes
      @starioncostumes ปีที่แล้ว +1

      He did not even stretch over 10 minutes for more ad revenue. What a lad.

  • @starioncostumes
    @starioncostumes ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Simple, informative, fast. And you did not even stretch over 10min.
    You deserve every bit of attention man. Thank you!

  • @brynleylewis7390
    @brynleylewis7390 5 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Nice clear concise tuition and refreshing to not have daft music playing, we can actually hear you crystal clear and actually see exactly what you are doing, thank-you, great tutorial

  • @christow7989
    @christow7989 ปีที่แล้ว

    I discovered this channel a few years ago. Im glad he has posted videos for leather working as well as all the tying videos. I have learned many knots for paracord from him. Thank you for having a broad set of hobbies and interests

  • @CM-1911-4
    @CM-1911-4 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Excellent, clear and concise presentation! 👍

  • @booktiallaway
    @booktiallaway ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This was fantastic. So many videos don't say what the tools or or what size, but your whole video was so easy to understand and simple to watch! I appreciate all your info!

  • @juanramiroescobar
    @juanramiroescobar 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hi Mark, thanks again for the great tips. this is the first video I found which has the step by step way of leather edge burnishing that make sense and it really works. please keep on going with you videos. I enjoy the a lot watching them

  • @TheSilkThread
    @TheSilkThread 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    One of the better videos! Short, to the point, an excellent tutorial. Thanks!

  • @Tyger_Eyez
    @Tyger_Eyez 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Very quick precise and to the point! Thank you so much. It was exactly what I needed when I needed it

  • @PastorWmAFagle
    @PastorWmAFagle 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A meticulous hobby for the thoughtful shut- in. I'll leave this tool work to the pro's !

  • @TGBoleyn
    @TGBoleyn 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hvala vam na video! This was extremely helpful in doing my first leather project. Hope you are well and safe in Slovenia!

  • @antonlossev3302
    @antonlossev3302 6 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    With that tutorial, you sir have gained a subscriber!

  • @JPMerolla001
    @JPMerolla001 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for this video. I really appriciate the demonstration and information. I got into leatherworking a couple years ago. But i had never made anything i had a need to burnish before. As they were just made for myself.

  • @ZoeSummers1701A
    @ZoeSummers1701A 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you very much for this clear and helpful video. Very much appreciated. No other clearly showed all 3 possibilities.

  • @michellehale8962
    @michellehale8962 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I always learn something good from your vids. Thanks, Marko!

  • @julla1416
    @julla1416 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks, great vid. What type of top finish to use when we are done burnishing? Specifics please.

  • @oodlesmallow8150
    @oodlesmallow8150 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    New at the craft & I am looking how different how to videos - I really love yours! It's slowed down & great for newbies such as myself when understanding!

  • @RKSingh-pi4dq
    @RKSingh-pi4dq 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank You for posting this. I am new to Leather Works, and this video has really provide a lot of information

  • @dudefacial
    @dudefacial 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    This guy is friggen awesome. Glad I clicked on this video. Well made man!

  • @duxallinarow
    @duxallinarow 4 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    That's exactly what I needed to know. Thank you.

  • @raspberrycrusader
    @raspberrycrusader 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Superb tutorial. I did at first think you had used some sort of electronic voice track, but realised it was the combination of your accent and your very precise pronunciation of English that fooled me! Anyway, you have quickly and thoroughly answered all of my questions about burnishing methods and it is a pleasure to watch such an eloquent presentation of technical facts. I am now going to check out your other videos 😀

  • @kizmit6545
    @kizmit6545 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    U r a great teacher and artist

  • @olleborner4604
    @olleborner4604 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Answered all my questions, thanks for a great video.

  • @aliciavelting2404
    @aliciavelting2404 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video! It was easy to follow and understand!! Thank you so much!! I have one question… If I am using the wax or the gum trag method, do I still diet after I'm done burnishing?

  • @cavokdotcom
    @cavokdotcom 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Thank you! That was a great introduction to burnishing!

  • @justlotfy
    @justlotfy 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you very much, is this possible to elaborate how to use the Tokonole thing?

  • @FoxBonly
    @FoxBonly 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Excellent video. I just wish you had expanded on what you meant by recommending a top finish at the end. A 'top finish' could mean any number of things.

  • @thebohobrook
    @thebohobrook 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey.! Thank you so much, You made it really easy to understand. I will use it for my leather bags. Can I use the water and wax burnish method for a thick rexine too?

  • @graphictouch
    @graphictouch 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hi, thanks for your informative video, can I use boot polish cream or liquid shoe polish or leather cream as a substitute of dye….? Thanks

  • @allandavis2023
    @allandavis2023 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Very useful information. Thanks for taking the time to help us out. I have used these methods and they work well on heavier leather, say 8 oz. When I try to burnish the edge on 2-3 oz, it's too thin to do this way. Do you have any tips for burnishing edges on lighter weight leather? Thank you again for the video. It has helped my edge a lot.

    • @chrisreeves6123
      @chrisreeves6123 ปีที่แล้ว

      Try a 2000 wet/dry sandpaper with the burnish cream. You’ll want to keep the sandpaper moist while sanding down.

  • @gulamhoosendocrat7091
    @gulamhoosendocrat7091 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Excellent tutorial !!!

  • @edsnowden4990
    @edsnowden4990 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Yea, but what do you use for a
    "top finishing"?
    Cause I always find my edges getting a little fuzzy after a while.

  • @HarosOfStyx
    @HarosOfStyx 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    2:18 - but what if it's softer leather like something for a bracelet? will i still be able to do that in a straight line? or will it accidentally cut it at the wrong angle?

  • @Humayun744
    @Humayun744 ปีที่แล้ว

    good explaination very useful, thank you.

  • @saxman7131
    @saxman7131 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Good video my friend. Glad to see you enjoying leather work like I am.

  • @blackhawknj
    @blackhawknj 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    This an an excellent tutorial, very clear and precise.

  • @kismetkyogre
    @kismetkyogre 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great tutorial! Thank you!

  • @Al-ny8dk
    @Al-ny8dk 5 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hi great video but your last comment is "I would highly recommend you use a coating to protect the leather." I thought the burnishing + wax/gum was the finish. So its still not finished. What type of coating do you recommend for finishing? Acrylic? PU? Other? Thanks !

    • @markthebraider6720
      @markthebraider6720  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Good eye there!
      Generally with leather the amount of time and care you take, the better the end result.
      Wax+gum can be considered a primer, so the base application. It works decently well standalone, but for a further step you can apply some sort of kote. Edge kote for example works well, you could also use Tan kote.
      Mark

  • @MikeG-js1jt
    @MikeG-js1jt 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I was a little confused on the gum trag method because at the end you suggested that the water method needed to be done first before the track method, so, to be clear in order to do the gum track method do I need to First do the water method?

  • @scottshort262
    @scottshort262 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    hello! can you assist me in understanding how I can burnish the SURFACE of a piece of leather to improve the surface finish

  • @gustavochiozza6465
    @gustavochiozza6465 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if the other two wood tools are the same as the one that you uses in the video. Thanks!

  • @madcat1007
    @madcat1007 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    The hand burnisher has different grooves for leathers of varying thickness. Is there a reason you are using the widest groove on such thin leather?

    • @LSFprepper
      @LSFprepper 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I thought the same thing.

  • @danielvilches7185
    @danielvilches7185 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    First of all thank you very much for this video, it is the best I saw. At the end of it, what kind of finish would you recommend appart from waxing and burnishing it? You meant like dyeing or painting?

  • @fyae
    @fyae 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    you said method 1,2,3 as they are independent options, but in reality i should always do a water burnish first before wax or gum??

  • @lucamarialanza7319
    @lucamarialanza7319 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very nice and clean video! Just a question... what kind of wax you use? Beewax?

    • @bodeine454
      @bodeine454 5 ปีที่แล้ว

      In a different comment he said that he usually uses beeswax but sometimes uses leftover wax from their candles. I would probably use beeswax if it was me. I have some that I got a couple years ago at Hobby Lobby. You could also probably find it elsewhere, bee keepers probably sell it too!

  • @Impulse_Photography
    @Impulse_Photography 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does it make a difference if I apply the Gum Trag and allow it to almost dry - where it is tacky then Burnish??

  • @Just_Mike27
    @Just_Mike27 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well done video. Thank you for sharing

  • @rebeccac1347
    @rebeccac1347 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    When using the gum trag, should you let it dry between coats? Thanks for the great education on this subject!

    • @markthebraider6720
      @markthebraider6720  5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I do let it dry. But make sure you do not use too much of it will not dry evenly. Treat gum trag much like water.
      Mark

  • @rosiecatherine1027
    @rosiecatherine1027 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Great tutorial, thank you

  • @오나나-v9k
    @오나나-v9k 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    WOW! Thank you! Just a clarification, can I just use wax alone to burnish and put dye after the wax?

    • @schoo9256
      @schoo9256 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      The waxed areas will resist the dye, dye your leather first.

  • @harishchander7904
    @harishchander7904 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very simple n nice learning.. 👍

  • @ronsmith8434
    @ronsmith8434 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Whats your thoughts on using neatsfoot oil for leather holsters? Thanks

  • @LJay-pv8lm
    @LJay-pv8lm 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What's the best for bendable items like journals? Will the wax crack?

  • @creativeendeavours3395
    @creativeendeavours3395 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Hi, thank you for the tutorial. I have a few questions.
    1. Does the leather need to be beveled? I am currently burnishing on the straight cut edge.
    2. I first stain the edges, then burnish. Should I reverse this process?
    3. How much pressure should I put on the wood slicker?
    4. There's a little indented ditch in the middle of my edge. Should I press harder on the slicker or keep applying gum until it fills up?
    5. I find that the wood slicker leaves a mark on the front and back of the leather, even with the largest slot. Is there a way to avoid that?
    Out all these questions, the thing that bothers me the most is the fact that the slicher leaves a mark on the grain and flesh side, about 1cm on each side.
    Thank you for your time!

    • @lionlambleather6306
      @lionlambleather6306 7 ปีที่แล้ว +9

      Creative Endeavours it would be smart to bevel because when you burning you compress the edges of leather and if you don't bevel it can cause a ridge to form that is not visually appealing and for the marks caused by the burnishing tool try to use less water you want the edges damp not soaked you know you have the right amount of water when you hear a slight squiking noise when you burnish . only light pressure should be used on the tool that is all it should need. And I dye before burnishing because when you burnish it compress the leather and there is a chance will not let the dye to penetrate. Hope this helps

    • @mmmJellySandwich
      @mmmJellySandwich 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      why do you sand before beveling? wouldn't it help to sand the edge AFTER beveling as well?

    • @lionlambleather6306
      @lionlambleather6306 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      THE DEATH you could sand after beveling if you wish it wouldn't hurt but the purpose of sanding is just to even the edges out before beveling and burnishing hope this answer your question

    • @nadrasaleh1744
      @nadrasaleh1744 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Creative Endeavours aljazeramubasher

  • @dawgyv72
    @dawgyv72 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cant you stick the water burnish on veg tan and just move into the dye burnish for the same effect?

  • @mattivirta
    @mattivirta 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    if use sandpaper what grid need use ? and can burnish only water and beeswax good ? thailand i learn first time leather work now and no know sure, but no found dye colour and trafalcant anywere. i think need use sandpaper first then water burn and then bees wax. i not has try work yet because i no sure can make.

  • @stephaniepowers5521
    @stephaniepowers5521 6 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Thank you for these great leather working videos! Honestly, the best I've seen so far for beginners, like me! I wanted to ask what type of wax you used in this video? Thank you

    • @markthebraider6720
      @markthebraider6720  6 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Hey there!
      Thank you for your kind comment!
      The wax I use is usually beeswax (you can find it quite affordably with a beekeeper, in a beekeeping store or online). I often improvise by using the remains of the candles we use.
      Have a great day!
      Mark

    • @juanramiroescobar
      @juanramiroescobar 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@markthebraider6720 Hello Mark. I live in Colombia and bee wax is quite difficult to fine around. i wonder if you could use other kind of wax instead, like some made of artificial compounds. Will them affect the quality of the leather on the long run? Regarding the remains of the candles you use, are they paraffin candles or beeswax candles?

    • @معاويةهزي-ح3ج
      @معاويةهزي-ح3ج 4 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@markthebraider6720
      Thank you, it is clear that the lesson was good, but I was hoping there would be a translation into Arabic

  • @botany500kojak
    @botany500kojak 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video.
    Could this method be used to take off 4 mm from a leather strip? It is a little too wide. Could I take 2mm off from each side?
    If not, can you recommend how I could do that?
    Thanks a lot.

  • @0ddSavant
    @0ddSavant 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Question: What grit sandpaper are you using during 1st Step (Time Stamp Approx: 1m10s)?

  • @XX-mw1lz
    @XX-mw1lz 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    hello, do you think that the tool you use back and forth also works well for burning the corners of calfskin or just leather? Many thanks

  • @d2jlking
    @d2jlking 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Excellent video, thanks for the tutorial

  • @bjorn1993
    @bjorn1993 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    About how much pressure while burnishing should be used?

  • @user-zx6jv3zy9r
    @user-zx6jv3zy9r 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That was super useful, thank you

  • @AppelmoesArtandPhotography
    @AppelmoesArtandPhotography 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does these techniques work also on cheaper genuine leather?

  • @jalehz1228
    @jalehz1228 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hello everyone, i'm the new and i have some question.
    Is it possible to use this way on ever, leather, or not...
    I try to make edge on leather, and i use sandpaper, wather and cream, but not workk😢
    Can same on help me..
    Tnx

  • @buddyhutchins3782
    @buddyhutchins3782 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    How do you sharpen your edge bevellers? Gracias. Anaco, Anz.

  • @timothyduzenski1386
    @timothyduzenski1386 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very helpful. Thank you

  • @flatdog-
    @flatdog- 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you

  • @MsBabbityRabbity
    @MsBabbityRabbity 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    thanx for this video! can this method be used on synthetic leather too?

    • @photoartteacher903
      @photoartteacher903 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes and No Babbity, yes in the sense that friction will melt most anything - so you can technically burnish many things But NO in the sense that in leather work Burnishing usually refers to a specific "harder darker" edge that is used on Vegetable Tanned (VegTan for short) leather. Some people call VegTan leather tooling leather because it is the stiff leather that can be tooled (stamped and carved)
      the biggest reason it is only used on VegTan is that is the only type of leather that will maintain the burnished edge --- soft leathers can't be stamped or burnished because they don't maintain their shape - but get vegtan wet and push a thumb dent in and its there for a very long time

  • @dieuxroux
    @dieuxroux ปีที่แล้ว

    You're not ready for this one. I'm a pro pool player and the tip we use at the end of the pool cue is made of leather. Layered or laminated leather to be more exact. What glue is used between the layers? No clue. Anyway, when we finish the installation, we burnish the sides of the tip - usually that's made with the cue spinning on a lathe. Most old school cue makers use a little bit of spit (or water) and a leather piece to final burnish the sides of the tip. It absolutely leaves a slick, mirror-like finish, but since the cue often comes in contact with the pool table cloth, the burnished barrier doesn't last much time and the tips tends to fluff up. What would you, dear leather experts, recommend for burnishing the sides of the tip so it last as long as possible. Thanks for your consideration :)

  • @jerrycrowe8448
    @jerrycrowe8448 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for the information 👍

  • @miique
    @miique 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    is the bevel necessary in order to burnish?

  • @vadimobuhovschi752
    @vadimobuhovschi752 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi, can I use tokonole before dye, or after??? thanx

  • @dbbraiding9797
    @dbbraiding9797 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank you. This was a great video.

  • @conrado8403
    @conrado8403 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Tank you! 🙋🏾‍♂️ Brasil

  • @maxbrumbergflutes
    @maxbrumbergflutes 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How to do this with soft leater?

  • @campcrafter4613
    @campcrafter4613 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great tutorial !!

  • @kinafari
    @kinafari 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you, this is very helpful!

  • @sreychhoeun3356
    @sreychhoeun3356 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you please tell me what is the purpose of edge beveller ?

  • @Jjernsberger
    @Jjernsberger 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great tutorial. Thank you.

  • @michellebaker8513
    @michellebaker8513 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Very informative, thank you so much

  • @WeLoveWatches
    @WeLoveWatches 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a question when you bevel the edges do you press down hard

  • @billba
    @billba 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    How do I prevent the dye coming off on pants?

  • @LockBits-ts6eo
    @LockBits-ts6eo 4 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How do I burnish 550 paracord Mark.

  • @maveltorzar69
    @maveltorzar69 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can I apply gum trag/wax and use the slicker to any type of leather? Thanks!

    • @markthebraider6720
      @markthebraider6720  6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hey!
      Well, you can, but it is not always useful. Thin pieces of leather are harder to burnish. Also, you usually do not burnish leathers for other objects, for example chrome tanned leather for sofas.
      Generally, burnishing is most useful on "vegetable tanned" leather projects where the edges are fairly thick and where you want a smoother edge. So, use it on bags, straps, belts, wallets, things like that.
      I hope that helps.
      Mark

    • @maveltorzar69
      @maveltorzar69 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Mark the braider thanks for your response! If the leather is not very thick, which edge polishing option is adviseable? Thann you again!

  • @McCarthyism_by_Youtube
    @McCarthyism_by_Youtube 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    playback 1.5x
    great information! thank you!

  • @eshills7497
    @eshills7497 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Outstanding thank you

  • @sleepinonmezzz5374
    @sleepinonmezzz5374 ปีที่แล้ว

    What grit sandpaper?

  • @moondogknives8812
    @moondogknives8812 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    if you use wax or gum - do you not have to dye the leather first? i don't see how you can dye once you have wax or gum applied.

    • @markthebraider6720
      @markthebraider6720  6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Indeed. I'd recommend using dye after the water burnish at the latest.
      Mark

  • @jennifermerriman4136
    @jennifermerriman4136 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you!!

  • @dereksanchez5724
    @dereksanchez5724 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video!!! Thank you

  • @dr.lexwinter8604
    @dr.lexwinter8604 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Damn dude, when I burnish to get a smooth edge the wood and leather start smoking. Idk how you are seeing any difference between pauses when you show us that looks the same as when you started just slightly stained. Also if you don't have an edge cutter, or even a burnisher, yet have a dremel or power tool that rotates I suggest grabbing a stick from the back yard and any sharp metal tool - spin the piece up and very, very slowly run the tool along taking half a mm off a pass until the thing is centrered and running true. Then pick a spot closer to the base of the stick for your heavy pressure zone, gouge a pass about 3mm, then 2mm inside that, then 1mm, then grab your thickest piece of leather wrap some sand paper (sand out) over it and run that up and down the leather.
    Make a few more gouge cuts into the wood for upper and lower edge burnishing for convenience. Then to use it first pull down, then push up, that way you're burnishing the outer edge first. Then press in deep for the middle. If you just do the middle portion of the leather the edges can mushroom out a bit. Wet the leather edge first, buzz your way along it (go slow but not slow enough to burn in or spot, a little smoke and it's time to move on) then re-dress the edge with dubbin or what have you. If you're working with stained leather use the stain last. If you've working with raw leather you stained with stained polish (like shoe polish in a can, not that paint crap) use that last on the edge too. You just saved yourself buying a bunch of tools and a bunch of products and learnt to make do.
    The screw ended dremel mandrels are perfect for this project - albeit you will need to find a drill bit or bur that is smaller than the screw end to first remove some material, measure the length of the bur up against the screw head so you know how deep to go then back off 1mm - upside of the screw end is it will drill itself home over time, so don't worry if you hand feed the wood on and it doesn't go in fully. You'll notice after a few uses it's drilled itself home. You've got to be careful - if you just screw that into the wood without removing material it will split the end. Upside of this method is if you use too much force the wooden portion will snap long before it'll harm your dremels balance, allowing you to grab another stick from the yard and try again having learnt some along the way.

  • @mohammadbangash7826
    @mohammadbangash7826 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    excellent

  • @madcat1007
    @madcat1007 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Are you aware that the wooden slicker has grooves for different thicknesses of leather?. If so, why do you use the largest groove when it clearly does not fit the thickness of the leather?

  • @thepeanutbutterpig
    @thepeanutbutterpig 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can I do it on soft leather too??

  • @amandamountainsong6080
    @amandamountainsong6080 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good video

  • @WeLoveWatches
    @WeLoveWatches 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you man really helped me out

  • @cherryvelez3748
    @cherryvelez3748 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    thanks!really good tutorial!!!😉

  • @jackdelane
    @jackdelane ปีที่แล้ว

    I stuck the hand slicker into the chuck of my drill lol

  • @jamingammy6817
    @jamingammy6817 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Does it need to be a. Solid piece of wax.

    • @markthebraider6720
      @markthebraider6720  7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hey!
      Well there are many types of wax. What kind do you plan on using?
      Mark