Audiophile Linear Power Supplies - Do they improve the sound?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- A test of linear power supplies for audiophile products featuring the Gieseler Audio Kraftwerk II LPSs and tested with a bunch of products including the #GeshelliLabs J2 and E2, the #Topping E50, the #EarMen Tradutto and the #xDuoo MT-604
Check out Gieseler Audio's Kraftwerk II power supplies here: www.gieseler.com.au/
Here are some studies about how we perceive and are influenced by high frequency sound outside of the audible range:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10848... - musical content above 20kHz (inaudible) improves subjective enjoyment of music - correlates with brain activity
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24722... - shows brain activity caused by HF content
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14623... - shows HF content improves subjective enjoyment and higher comfortable listening level
00:00 - Introduction
02:01 - Differences between power supplies
06:09 - Glamour video
07:06 - Features & pricing
11:45 - Sound tests
12:43 - Geshelli J2 test
14:07 - Geshelli E2 test
15:52 - Topping E50 test
17:39 - EarMen Tradutto test
21:29 - xDuoo MT-604 test
24:20 - General conclusions
24:58 - Theories about why
Like the music in this video? You can get it here: www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
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#audiophile #audioreview #powersupplies - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I gotta complain about this guy. I listen to about 8 audio equipment reviewers on TH-cam. The first complaint is that his video is well lit, his microphone is excellent, and he speaks clearly. He is both critical yet complimentary and does an excellent job of explaining the technical details while politely providing the subjective view that every reviewer provides. To make matters worse, he actually answers his Instagram messages. The other thing I hate about this guy is that he treats the viewers as intelligent and thoughtful and voices opinions with the caveat that its ok if you disagree. This guy has cost me a painful marital situation at home as I’ve spent about $15K based on his recommendations. If I ever see this guy in the United States, I’m warning him that I will buy him dinner anywhere/anytime.
Haha. That's great, Neil. What a unique comment! Literally made me laugh out loud when I reached the end.
I hope I can take you up on that threat one day! 😁
I've got to complain about you spreading positive attitude on the internet 😂
Haha. Fight! Fight! Fight! ❤️
I love this comment lmaoo
Oohhh ❤ 🎉
Great review and truly appreciate your wonderful effort and the objective insights on lps.
So glad you found it useful 🙂🙂
I really love that you speculated on what you think is going on and linked to relevant studies, this type of exploration of our perception is what makes it this hobby so interesting to me.
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching and commenting 🙂🙂
th-cam.com/video/BYTlN6wjcvQ/w-d-xo.html
I love your channel, especially as a fellow Aussie. You're just a fountain of information. I recently put together my first high end kit after a few months of research and I dived in pretty deep. (Stepping up from Fidelio X2) I ended up settling on LCD-3 after some auditioning at Addicted 2 Audio. And for DAC I chose bifrost 2, for amp Burson Soloist 3x with supercharger. I'm hoping it all jives well together! Your videos played a big part in my selection. Now to wait for stock to arrive going to be a difficult 4-6 week wait that's for sure. At least I have your videos to tie me over in the meantime!
So glad you're enjoying the videos! I think you'll be extremely happy with your selected setup. Drop back in when it all arrives and let me know your thoughts 🙂
I have Linear power supplies on all my digital devices , the noise reduction from smps is great .
I agree
Excellent review. It matches with all my own experiences using linear power supplies for my gear. I would like to see more videos like this where a linear power supply is added to the reviewed product and see what it can do.
Thanks Hendrik! I'm actually chatting to Clay about buying a separate LPS for review testing so anything with a 5V-12V SMPS as standard I can test with better power and see how it sounds.
Great review. In my experience an LPS can make similar improvements to what you describe with a standalone DAC or a DAC/streamer combo, but little to no difference with a standalone streamer. I think this suggests "clean" power is most important to the analogue output stage of the digital chain.
I need to test the LPS on a streamer device. I have a streamer roundup coming soon so let's see if it's model dependent or if all streamers are fairly immune to power quality
Love the channel and your braveness to tackle products like cables and power supplies. While I know LPS do make a difference, and I appreciate your effort here, I'm don't think many people are gonna be pairing $250-$300 DAC's and amps with $900 power supplies.
So glad you love the channel! Thanks for letting me know. I completely agree that spending $600+ on an LPS doesn't make much sense until you're spending a fair bit more on the core devices. 🙂
one of the reasons the DAC or amp cost $300.00 is because it has a $2.00 power supply.
Exactly
My dac is plugged into the wall, it’s performance is miles below audibility. It’s so transparent it’s not even in the chain. Dac designers know the mains and usb has noise, so they fix it !. Just look at the numbers -130 -140 dB insane, they are struggling to get equipment to measure these modern dacs . Even the new chip based class D amp are offering insane performance. I have £2700 amp sat gathering dust with a separate power supply, it just can’t live with this modern equipment.
@@PassionforSound Sorry, but the power supply is the core device!
This was terrific, Lachlan! I would enjoy learning more about what you find in the "Deeper Dive". Love your work. Thanks so much. Roger in Wisconsin
I've already forgotten about what the deeper dive was going to be. Can you remind me? 🤣
So glad you liked the video!
@@PassionforSound As you were wrapping up the MT-604 discussion (around the 24.00 point in the video), you mentioned how you might explore the effects linear power supplies have on the 604 and other amps to see if investing in quality linear power supplies is worth it. Thanks again for your fine work.
Ah yes! Sorry that I forgot - it's been a crazy start to the year. I'll see if I can find enough content to make that worthwhile 🙂
Just saw this, bought the xduoo mt 604 after watching your review and still love it! Thank you. Please explore further how much better it can get with a dedicated review with other power supplies, e.g. Zero 24:27 , Teradak, come to mind, am sure there are others
So glad you're liking it, Jason. I'm afraid my review schedule is too full to promise an MT604 power supply video, but something like the Teradak supply should sound great
I missed this one - but glad I found it. A high pitched noise was driving me mad, and I found out it was my phone charger. Because of this I started researching power supplies. Most of my audio components have internal linear power supplies already, but I have a Geshelli DAC in a secondary system.
What I take from it is that for people that regularly like to try out audio gear, it is a good idea to have a adjustable linear power supply at hand ;o)
It can definitely be a nice addition if you can use it across multiple devices. Glad I could help! 🙂
I definitely would like a video of maxing out the 604 seems fun!
Thanks for letting me know. I'll explore some options
I am loving my Tradutto...upgraded power supply to iFi Power X switch mode supply and it was like peanut butter & jelly then added an Itona 7055-C to have galvanic isolation on the USB to take out the computer noise.
That's great news! I'm looking forward to thoroughly reviewing the Tradutto very soon
I use a high capacity 50A(50000mA) power bank along with my desktop headphone amp for the same purpose. And it works GREAT. Power bank is a large format one, the size of standart book. Costed me around 100doll. Improves overall sound for sure (especially the soundstage) and makes the whole set-up transportable ie. I can listen to the music through it outdoor if needed - somewhere in the public parks etc. Very useful.
I have found the same. Some people say that some battery supplies will degrade the sound quality due to some DC-DC conversion circuits they use, but I've found them better than the SMPSs with most devices I've tried
Just a small correction, switch mode power supplies do have an transformer, here's how they actually work, first ac input gets converted to dc, there is going to be a switching transistor somewhere in that part or integrated in rectifier, then the voltage gets busted with buck converter to about 400 volts, after that it goes to inverter where it gets covered back to ac but at much higher frequency than the main power which allows for much smaller transformer, after the transformer now lower voltage gets converted to dc and stored in capacitors, after the capacitors there is an voltage regulator along with noise filter and just before the voltage regulator there is an sense line which measures the voltage in output caps and switches the power supply by controlling the transistor on the primary side, some switch mode PSUs can have multiple output voltage regulator stages in series giving them less ripple.
The name "switching power supply" doesn't come from "switching transistors" it's called switch mode because the whole power supply turns off once the voltage in output cap has retched the certain level, and it switches back on once the voltage drops so there is very little energy wasted on idling.
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Sebastian!
Everything Gieseler that I’ve had has been bulletproof, and Clay is so easy to deal with too
I completely agree!
Yes, I want you to deep dive into that rabbit hole. Cheaper amps+LPS vs more expensive amps!!
I'll see if I can find time in the schedule
Got the Gieseler Kraftwerk II Dual just before Xmas to power an iFi Zen Stream and the Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 DDC. The improvement in sound quality is quite notable, just like described in this video. If you're happy with your gear and want that 5% extra, get a quality LPSU.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, Daniel!
I am a DIY audiophile. I have been running my DAC on nickel-cadmium batteries intended for standby lighting applications. These sounded better to my ears than alkaline dry cells which in turn sounded better than the supplied wall wart. After 5 years of intensive use, my NiCads are tired so I am designing a mains-powered replacement. I have re-batteried my supply but while doing this I set up my bench PSU so I could still have music. The bench supply sounded shallow, artificial and well, *gritty* for want of a better term.
I have put my oscilloscope on the bench supply and found a very short spike at 32 Khz which is a full volt peak-to-peak. I suspect this is the villain of the piece.
Putting the scope onto various general purpose and audio grade linear supplies is also quite educational. General purpose diodes often induce ringing at a wide range of frequencies when they switch. The soft recovery fast switching diodes in audio supplies really is a far more civilised device. Finally, use a shunt regulator wherever possible. I first read of this concept in the late great Allen Wright's "Tube Preamp Cookbook". (A hands-on Australian audiophile.) You will also find shunt regulators in Bottlehead kits - and anyone who owns one will tell you *they work* .
If you are a DIY-er building power supplies, don't trust your multimeter, put a scope on that supply, AC-coupled and look at the nature of the noise. It really affects the sound! 😀
That's really interesting! Thanks for sharing!! 🙂🙂
I didn't have any experience with LPS until I tried the Topping P50. Swapping between it and a regular switched supply pretty much convinced me right away!
Yep. They're a pretty clear upgrade in almost all cases it seems. Glad you got to try it for yourself
th-cam.com/video/OL23xkLfPTU/w-d-xo.html and th-cam.com/video/OL23xkLfPTU/w-d-xo.html
I have an Arya SE and just paired it with a new IFI Zen DAC. My old IFI power supply was not compatible with the new Zen DAC, so I had to get another. I listened to music on it, and although I liked the sound signature MORE than the old DAC, I didn't enjoy it as much as the old DAC which had the clean IFI power supply.
I just got the IFI IPowerX to power the new Zen DAC and all I can say is that I ENJOY the sound again. I enjoy the sound again, with the new sound signature coming from the IFI DAC. This means I can finally compare the new DAC with the old.
To me, clean power supplies provide absolutely no more information. There is the ILLUSION of "different sound", but this is just because your brain interprets the sound differently because it is ENJOYING the sound.
It is "easy" to listen to, which also allows me to raise the volume which obviously will reveal more information.
My point is that clean power supplies are extremely necessary for me, not because they "do" something to the music, but rather because they "do" something to your brains enjoyment of it.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! So glad you've found the way to get the most from your music
Thanks for the video.
My pleasure 🙂
Honestly I just recently got a linear ps for my streamer, and I got to say man I think just like cables the differences are very minimal amongst LPS's. The one I got has nichon caps, some high quality crap from germany, and swiss fuses. I think everything in is at least to a mid tier level, some would consider higher, and direct from china it was only 80 dollars. I did check the individual cost of everything to see if this was authentic or fake, and honestly it does make sense if you are doing DIY and selling it. I am certain their are higher quality parts but what they are using is what you consider audiophile grade. I cant imagine ever dishing out even 400 for LPS.. 13200 uf of capacitance, and rather than one big cap it's multiple small ones which is also considered to be better.
I'm not sure the longevity of the product, but I would honestly assume it's maybe a couple of years and at that price I cant imagine there being a huge factor. Parts could possibly be fake, but to be honest for this price and getting everything you need, I would have no issue purchasing and upgrading everything and make this super top of the line for probably only for another maybe 150 USD. So that's again about 230 dollars and without a doubt outstanding.
The differences aren't huge - that's for sure. Things like cables and power supplies are 'last pieces of the puzzle' items, but they definitely do make an improvement - that's for sure.
I've looked at those cheap Chinese supplies too and I think maybe the biggest cost savings will be on the transformers used which are a key part of the circuit. There's nothing wrong with using what you've bought, but I would definitely expect better results with a higher quality supply
These are my favorite types of reviews from you Lachlan! So many channel do the typical gear reviews but I appreciate that you switch it up and go into such great details on accessories like op amps, cables, lps,, etc.. did you happen to hook up the to the soloist? Wondering if you noticed any substantial difference between the lps and super charger?
Glad you're enjoying them, particularly because I have more planned for 2022 😉
The Burson gear uses 24V power and my LPS options max out at 15V unfortunately.
My only experience with LPS is 1. Using a cheap one with the ifi zendac (the first version). That was a very obvious improvement and I think it cost me under $40, and 2. The ifi ipower elite $300. It made a significant difference paired with my streamer, a pi2AES. Haven't tried one yet with a better/higher priced DAC, but based on this limited experience, I'd expect a similarly excellent LPS to improve most DACs as well. I would even try a cheap one with any DAC under $300 in a more budget system.
No harm in trying! Thanks so much for sharing your experiences!
Another great review!
Burson claims substantial difference in their MCPS to a regular SMPS with no need to go linear PS. I would curious to get your opinion on the difference since you already seem to have a MCPS. I have a Composer, sounds good but I don’t have another LPSU to compare it to.
Unfortunately, I don't have a 24V LPS to test on a Soloist or Composer - sorry!
@@PassionforSound Makes sense, 24v lpsu not the most common. Thank you.
Hi, great channel btw! How do you compare the Gieseler Audio Kraftwerk II with the Topping p50?
I haven't compared them because I sold the P50. That said, the KWII is far more versatile because the P50 has very low output current
I am sorry if I missed this information in your excellent video, but I would be interessed in the power consumption of the linear power supply. Is it much higher than the power consumption of switching power supplies? Heat would indicate some kind of inefficiency.
That's an interesting question that I haven't considered. I imagine it is a higher power draw because of the inefficiency as you said, but I've never directly compared and it's likely to vary depending on the specific voltages and currents going in and out
Sorry for pestering you again. After your video I went on a search for LPS in my area and I came across Power Conditioners. What do you think of them. Should both conditioners and LPS be used in tandem or just either one is enough? A video explaining the differences between these two would be really helpful. Thank you very much!
Funny you should ask that. I'm expecting a power conditioner to arrive this week. I'll do some similar testing in that video to compare some different types of products (DACs, amps, those with SMPS and those using transformers) to see which ones are helped or hindered. 🙂
Since you bought one specifically for the M-Scaler, how does it work compared to the stock power supply?
Good question and I should have mentioned that in the video! It's great with the M-Scaler. Basically, it does all the same things that I described in this video to a moderate level. It's not a massive change (it never is with power supplies iny experience), but it's significant enough to be worthwhile given the value of the chain people are likely to be using the M-Scaler in
Thanks Again for another great video. I've watched a few of your videos and you've replied and been extremely helpful. I bought the xDuoo XD05 Pro and it has an option for external power supply via usb-c. It says best used with a HIFI DC12V linear power supply. I don't know how that would work with a USB-C. I don't even know what to purchase...I don't see anywhere that sells that exactly. I don't see how a USB-c connects. I hope you can review the XD05 PRO and explain how to connect the ext. Also your thoughts on the different amps and DAC options. I also purchased the AKM AK4499EX DAC Card. I read changing the op amp to Sparkos SS3602 DUAL DISCRETE OP AMP. makes a big difference. That's what lead me to this video and how great your other videos are. I'm going to also get the Hugo 2 to compare it to the XD Pro. I wonder if the XD05 PRO with the AKM DAC and Sparkos amp and power supply would take it to a high level or is all that just very small gains? Would the HUGO 2 just be better. I'm using this from my MAC apple lossless music via USB-c to headphones like LCD-5, MM-500, Focal's etc. I will look into supporting you with some donations. I hope you know how helpful you are. Thank You!
I'm so glad I've been able to help! I've also actually got a video on the XD-05 Pro due out any day now... However, I didn't test it with an external power supply. I'm not sure how much it will affect the sound because batteries are already excellent power sources so it would be for convenience more than quality, I expect.
As for what you'd need, any good quality linear power supply with 12V (and whatever current level that recommend) would do the job as you'd just need to order it with a USB-C connector instead of the more common DC barrel connectors
Hi Lachlan, another great review. I have been a fan of replacing SMPS with Linear Power Supplies for some time. Indeed my Chord Dave has been modified to be powered by a Sean Jacobs DC4 / ARC6 linear power supply. The results lift the Dave to a quite sublime level of sound quality. I have also tried powering a Chord Qutest dac with a Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS costing more than £4k GBP and consider that it took the sound of the Qutest to areas where it could compete with DACs costing more than £5k UKP. Of course my Mscaler is also powered by a Sean Jacobs LPS! (To good effect).
As to what is causing these differences I am well aware that inaudible high frequency noise can cause significant issues with sound quality and this is the basis of my WAVE High Fidelity digital BNC cables which you reviewed. In this case the high frequency noise gets into the analogue stage of the DAC and causes intermodulation distortion which is easily heard at even low levels. However with the power supplies, whilst this might also be a reason for what we hear I suspect there is more going on that just that. For instance I have spoken to Sean Jacobs and he has explained to me how a very low impedance to the power supply to digital circuits can be very influential. I could hear this for myself when Sean upgraded my Dave DC4 to an ARC6 power supply. The difference was quite profound.
Anyway, keep up the good work and I look forward to your next video. Best regards, Nick.
PS, edit to say that I forgot to add that I also tried various LPS powering the RME DAC and was surprised at the benefit with that because the designer has always stated that there is no benefit to using anything apart from the supplied SMPS. However I always found the RME with that to be slightly fatiguing especially on ‘busy’ tracks and that went away when I used a good quality linear power supply.
Hi Nick, thanks for commenting and sharing such interesting info! I agree that the use of LPSs can be very profound! I'm yet to try other brands, but perhaps I can compare some in the future. I might even have to do an interview with a designer of power supplies to really dig deep. Thanks for starting me off with some info about how/why they're impacting the sound
When you say insane levels, have you measured them. Or did you listen.
Hi Lachlan and thanks for another great review. What about the TT2 and linear power supplies? I remember you commented a while ago that TT2 is immune, "agnostic" to any LPSU, so need for upgrading here?
"no" need...
That's correct. The TT2 gets zero benefit from an LPS, but the M-Scaler absolutely does!
@@PassionforSound Thank you👍
@@PassionforSound do you think a qutest dac would benefit from lps?
I never got to test that, but many people believe it does and I've heard multiple devices improve with a linear supply (I've definitely not yet heard a device go backwards with one)
Hi, interesting video. Knowing you’re a fan and owner, me too, of the TT2 & M Scaler was surprised not to hear in depth opinion of the linear power on those. Given theyre relatively high end products would have thought they would be perfect to judge.
I have all my equipment plugged into the Audioquest Niagara 1200 power conditioner. Wondering if this would negate the need for linear power addition.
Thanks, keep up the good work
That was a bit of an oversight on my part! The TT2 gets no benefit at all from changing the power supply because of its super capacitors. The M-Scaler though gets the same types of improvements as the rest of the gear I discussed here. In other words, the improvement is moderate, but significant (not groundbreaking) and results in greater refinement, the ability to hear even more micro details and also a slightly greater sense of space as a result
@@PassionforSound thank you Sir. I’m thinking the effect on M Scaler may be even further curtailed given the power conditioner.
Quite relieved 😀 as I’ve recently dropped a bunch on the Innuos Zenith & Reclocker, both products would be fascinated if they came across your desk. Best wishes
I'm keen to try those too. Maybe in the future... 🙂
Been using external linear power supplies for years. Back to the early slim devices/Logitech squeezebox era. Also use them with streamers and usb regenerators for cleaning up usb signal. It's really interesting how sensitive digital steaming/usb devices are to better power supplies. In some cases it just keeps increasing the performance. In others gear I have it doesn't make much difference as the manufacture clearly thought of that when designing it. Being more into diy audio side lately I have come to appreciate the thought put into the power supplies of components. Usually, this is big factor in the cost of a piece of gear and how it performs. Thank you and keep up the great reviews!
Great points all around! Glad you're liking the content and thanks for commenting!
I did the PS upgrade on the node 2i, which included a LPS and I was shocked the difference it made. It held me off from buying a new DAC, well for nearly a year anyway 😂, soon the node will just be a streamer.
Yes, upgraded power supplies can make a big difference, especially for a DAC.
I would really love for you to go through and review the hierarchy of power supplies to give us an idea of the spectrum and also to give more detail on more affordable options. For example comparing USB power from a computer to a dirt cheap switch-mode power supply, to an Apple switch-mode power supply (which you have stated in the past is noticeably better), to an affordable audiophile switch-mode power supply, to the least expensive linear power supply you can find, and so on.
That's a really interesting idea! I did a micro version of that in my old Topping P50 review, but with so many options on the market there's definitely a lot more ground to cover
@@PassionforSound That Topping P50 video is the only good commentary we have on it on the whole of TH-cam!
I'll see what opportunities pop up in the future for me to revisit the topic.
Thinking of pairing the fiio pl50 with the fiio r7. I'm very new to all this. Do these linear psu normally come with the cable to power the dac/amp?
Yes, the LPSs will come with connection cables. If you're buying from a brand like FiiO, it will probably come with the cables for their products only. With other brands, you'll either get a selection of common connection types or you will get to choose what you need during the purchase process.
@Passion for Sound thank you for your reply, it's much appreciated!
This is just incredible mate! It is both informative and educational. Love your videos. I enjoyed your videos on other accessories as well especially on audio cables. Can you make a video on fuses as well. Synergistic research fuses seem to be popular. I have read people using it for Singxer SA-1 and for dacs like Spring 3 and Musician Audio Aquarius.
Thank you!!
So glad you're enjoying the content! That's a great suggestion about the fuses - let me see what I can do, but it will be a while away as the queue is LONG right now
Nice review, sir. I think PSUs make a big difference!
They sure do in my experience. Glad you liked the review
I bought the Geshelli J2 dac with the newer akm chip. I got a iFi 12 volt power supply for about sixty dollars but heard no improvement. Someone said I should try a linear power supply but not sure which one to get. Any ideas under $200?
I haven't tried any cheap linear supplies so can't recommend one - sorry. I'm surprised you're not hearing any improvement from the iFi supply though. Perhaps the rest of your system is the limitation and the linear supply will be a waste?
Hi 🙂 I really appreciate your videos great job😍. May I ask, do u plan to do a video about some usb noise filters (audioqest and ifi products) and reclockers?, and do some research under what condiotions do they make a difference?, if they can make a difference also when the device has a linear power supply for instance? Thanks for all your work 💪 ♥
Hi Matus, I'm glad you're enjoying the videos. I'd be very open to that kind of a video - I think it could be really interesting. My only challenge will be collecting a bunch of them to test and compare
@@PassionforSound sounds great 💪 good luck man 😊🤞. I am looking forward to it.
and if i may ask again 🙂, do you have the cayin RU6 (R2R dongle dac) on your ,, to do,, review list 😁? Would be stellar to compare it to the some of your dongle dacs (eagle, sparrow...)🙂. But I totally understand if not cause u have already that much to do...
You may and I do 😁. I've got the RU6 scheduled for a 3-dongle roundup video soon. Not a comparison or battle, just covering 3 in the one video to save on time and clear the schedule a bit. I will address each one compared to another well-regarded dongle though of course. 🙂
@@PassionforSound 👌❤
I bought the Burson 3A Super Charger Power Supply for half price on BF for my Soloist 3XP Balanced Amp and I could definitely hear the difference. Is it a huge difference? We'll it's not a 50% difference... but it's at least 10/15% better and cleaner sounding on an already great sounding Amp which is a big leap. I went back and forth with the 3A SC and the original Soloist power supply to be sure I wasn't falling for some snake oil/smoke and mirrors product. It wasn't. 👍
So glad you tried it for yourself. It's a nice upgrade, isn't it?
I wonder if the 12V iFi iPowerX is a sensible/worthwhile upgrade for the MT-604?
Quite possibly. I've heard that it's a nice upgrade over regular switch mode supplies
Please take the deeper dive into the world of linear power supplies that are on the market.
I'll see what I can arrange
Any thoughts on power stips/conditioners/surge protectors having impact on sound? I am limited on outlets so I have to use them but I don't know if it's worth investing in a "higher quality" one. I don't really know if adding a linear power supply helps if the first part of the chain may be hampering it
My experience is that conditioners change the sound. Not always for the better or worse. I have owned several, from the 90’s era Adcom, Audioquest Niagara 5000 (tried the 1000 also), PS Audio P10 regenerator and Shunyata Denali v2.
For a low cost solution, the Furman P8D is pretty good. The Niagara 1000 is better, but costs 6x more.
The Shunyata is amazing, but is cost prohibitive.
I've heard lots of similar experiences to yours, ChrisMag.
TheEthics, I'm going to do a similar review to this one on a couple of power filter/conditioner products soon to see what improves, what degrades, etc. It's also worth noting that where you are in the world and the local power quality can play a part in the impact of filters, etc.
Thanks for the recommendations Chris! And I'll keep an eye out for the review @Passion for Sound . Can't wait to see what you discover
I had a power surge kill my AVR and projector, luckily my DAC, amps, etc came through OK. Turns out that surge suppressors go bad over time and give no warning ($15k lesson!).
After much research on surge suppressors, I purchased a Zero-Surge (just under $600.00 for a 10 outlet isolated unit).
It made a positive improvement to my stereo. The nature of the Zero-Surge system requires some amount of power conditioning. I have very clean power in my house, so I was surprised it helped things at all. I recommend you check them out if for no other reason to protect your expensive gear.
@@TheEthics88 Got the part number wrong. PST-8 Dig is what I use for my desktop audio setup and computer.
I'm afraid the two linear supplies you discuss would be out of my reach even if they were available in the US. I use 2 ifi ipower x ultra supplies one for my dac, one for the headphone amp. Both were a magnitude of improvement over the ordinary supplies. I also have a small desktop headphone amp that I power with a battery pack. The difference in sound quality between a switch mode supply and the battery was also huge. Thanks for covering this topic in detail.
Great points on both the iFi supplies and the battery, Kenneth!
I have had the ifi elite and the x power supply, did not improve my dac in a audible way. Also tried some of their other products, also made no difference. My system is almost to transparent for me, and very neutral. I think with the measured performance of my component I think I will be almost impossible to improve them audible . Maybe better speakers and room, but a power supply and interconnects and speaker cable are not going to do anything. And I have tried loads !.
th-cam.com/video/OL23xkLfPTU/w-d-xo.html
Linear is the superior choice, which is why it’s usually found in precision lab equipment. It’s also much more expensive. Bits are bits until they have HF noise in the signal and may end up with some interpolation errors.
That's been my experience too. It's interesting though that someone like Rob Watts stands by the SMPS for his DACs and believes they are as good as a perfect battery supply. (I'm not saying he's the sole source of truth, but he does his research and testing so he's normally got good reasoning behind his conclusions).
@@PassionforSound He may have a way of attenuating noise in the circuit. Would be interesting to know more.
Whould using a linear power supply for your amp make a difference? Or is the standard power supply that comes with it fine?
I'd suggest watching the review for a thorough answer to this question, Oscar. In short, it makes a difference, but as to how much difference - that's more complicated
Thanks.
I keep hearing in reviews, it's about how resolving your system is.
Maybe I missed it but I didn't hear which cans were used in the test from hi end to lower end and how that made if any a difference or would justify
any LPS.
I used different setups depending on the device because I tried DACs and amps, but I think I mostly used the Arya stealth magnet version for most tests.
Generally, I'd say there's no point dropping $500+ on a LPS if you're using lower end gear - I'd recommend putting that same money towards a more significant upgrade like a better DAC, amp or headphone (i.e. sell something and add the $500+ to step up a tier). If you're starting to play in the realm of say $700-1000+ components (very rough numbers) then it's probably worth considering
@@PassionforSound Thanks.
In your opinion, if someone was to purchase a $700 pair of cans, what price range should one look at for a dac and separately an amp (roughly, not for the future upgrade but now)
The assumption is spend the most on headphones, correct ?
I don't buy into the idea of spending a significantly larger amount on any piece. I think in terms of tiers. If you have a mid-tier headphone (like something around $700) then I believe you should buy a mid tier DAC and amp. Something like the Schiit Bifrost 2 or an SMSL DO200 for the DAC (my vote goes to the Bifrost) and an amp like a Rebel, Singxer SA-1 or maybe a Jotunheim 2.
Buying at significantly different levels will just limit your best gear to the performance level of the lowest quality gear. It's a bit like putting sub-standard tires on a car - the car will still go, but you're not going to get the best performance out of it.
@@PassionforSound Luv the suggestions & analogy but I think you may have left one thing off the list :)
The source. If I'm not playing DSD files at all, just streaming Amazon music through a mac I'll always be limiting the gear to it's weakest link - the source / mac .
Does that sound correct ?
Thanks
No, that's not an issue. For MP3 (and Spotify) I would agree that there's no point, but if you're using any lossless source like Amazon HD, FLAC files, Tidal or Qobuz, the differences will be noticeable. Even with MP3 is will be noticeable, but the upgrade in source quality would be a bigger step to take first
Is the Burson Supercharger linear or switch mode? Edit, would a good linear PS be better than the Supercharger for the Soloist?
I can't answer the second part because I don't have a 24V LPS. I know the team at Burson went out of their way to optimise the performance of the Super Charger, but it would be interesting to do the comparison
@@PassionforSound Someone on head-fi was also wondering about a 3rd party linear power supply and quoted Alex from Burson: ""No, this won't work on our products. It's like putting a bigger piston engine in an electric car. It will make our products sound worse" So.. I guess that's that then. Would be interesting to know more about why that wouldn't work.
I'd be curious about that too. I do know that the internal MCPS power supply system is built around capacitors that essentially discharge and recharge very rapidly so maybe the SMPS is required to pulse the power at very high speed into the MCPS? I don't know why that would be different to having constant power on tap though
What about the TT2 and M Scaler with linear power supply? hehe
That's a good question! The TT2 gets no benefit from a power supply upgrade, but the M-Scaler is fantastic with an upgraded power supply
Fiio k9 pro does have linear power supply inside. Is the PL50 will improve the sound quality?
No. You wouldn't be able to connect the PL50 to the K9.
Any reason you didn’t link to these products? Or did I miss it?
There's a link to Gieseler Audio in the description - 2nd paragraph 🙂
Lachlan, have you tried using the Super Charger 5A with the 789? If not, I think you’re in for a treat.
I don't have a 789 anymore so I haven't. ☹️
@@PassionforSound I feel it’s worth looking into if you get a chance. I personally noticed a dramatic difference using the 5A that came with the GT specifically when I compared stock PSU to the 5A. I purchased a 5A for the 789 after having sold my GT and can still notice a difference but it didn’t seem as dramatic. Could just be my perceptions but I think you’d be the best to test this since you have the 5A from the GT.
If I have a change to try a 789 again, I'll do the test 🙂
Those require an external AC voltage transformer. That means they are effectively just the DC filtering - not a "full" power supply, per se.
Another question - were the amperage of the power supplies comparable? If the linear power supplies could supply at least as much current as the switching unit, then that means it is like for like.
On the higher frequency affecting the sound - any percussive instrument will have a lot of higher harmonics that are part of that initial "attack" of the start of the sound. This is the definition of a sound wave that has the near "instant" rise at the beginning of the sound - it approaches a square wave, and has a number of orders of harmonics, that are summing together to produce that "attack" of the sound. Our brains are actually well able to sense these, even though we can't hear the higher frequencies when they are "alone" as a pitch.
Great info! Thanks, Neil - I'd never thought about that and it's likely a part of what's happening, but I think there's even more because a track with minimal transients like that will still sound better.
As for the current available, the Kraftwerk II is a 3A supply IIRC while the devices all varied a bit between 0.5A up to a couple of amps I think. Perhaps the KWII was providing greater current availability to the amps?
@@PassionforSound Right - more available current than required, is fine - and depending on the load impedance, it can definitely help.
Do you compare sound level outputs within 1db maximum?
Do you mean am I matching volumes before comparing devices? If so, yes.
If thats the case i dont need to buy all these gears all i need is my digital sound source my powered speakers and couple it with this linear power supply and get all the benefits you described
I certainly feel a good digital source and a pair of nice actives can do a great job these days.
Most switched mode supplies have a drop down transformer too. Like the linear supply, it provides isolation from the mains side and the dangers present there. Those are regulators by the look of things. $900 for a 15v 4A regulator is a lot of money.
I'm not qualified to debate the specifics of the circuit design. All I can say is that these are sold as linear power supplies and use a transformer before the circuit your referring to.
so if i got a 1800 dollar dac, i should get one of these LPS?
John is right, Leo - it will all depend on the product and whether it takes a DC input or if it has a mains power input. Most high end gear will use mains power, but there are exceptions.
Regardless of price, if a device has an external switch mode power supply, it's likely worth trying a linear power supply on it
Please review the LTA audio linear psu and big up your TH-cam channel.
It all depends on what I can get sent to me to review, but I'm happy to try
In my opinion, without even watching the video, I would say it absolutely does.
And you'd be right 😁
Where does the burson supercharger fit in with all this?
The Super Charger is a switch mode power supply, but designed to operate at much higher frequencies, theoretically removing the noise from the audible band. It definitely performs very similarly to what I heard from the LPS in this review.
Switch mode power supplies are the way of the future. Most audio companies are changing from linear to switch mode power supplies. Much cleaner .
Cleaner in one aspect only (low frequency hum), but both LPSs and SMPSs have their own issues. It's not quite as clear cut as you're suggesting. There are just as many brands committed to LPSs.
what if you have a 4A device (like the mSCALER) and run it with one circuit of the dual version wich provides only 3 Amps?
It's always worth matching or exceeding the current requirements so I'd be chatting ton Clay about that
@@PassionforSound that´s what I thought but you´ve only talked about Volts... chatting ton Clay??? means what? thanks (I´m an Aussie as well but from Austria)
Sorry, that's a good point that my emphasis was on volts because all products I tested were able to be driven by the LPS I was using so current didn't factor into my thinking - sorry!
Clay is the owner of Gieseler Audio (he makes the LPS I tested). If you're in Austria though, you'd probably be better off finding a local company that makes quality LPSs and chat to them.
@@PassionforSound I know, I will, thanks for getting back and for covering the basics so well in this and your other videos!
I have MT604 and Would like to see it be converted to $400 Amp using LPS :)
It's an interesting proposition. Such a fun amp!
MCRU do an extensive range of linear PSUs in the UK, if anyone based here is looking to buy or try one out.
Thanks for sharing that info!
this is unrelated to the video, but I just saw on schiits website that the modi 3+ was switched to the Modi 3e, which from a glance at LEAST includes the swap from an akm dac to an ess dac. im curious as to how it changes the sound and was wondering if you could review it.
I will see what I can do. I'd just borrowed a Modi 3+ too so maybe I can compare them
@@PassionforSound that would be the perfect idea/time to! Price also went up $30, so it will be a value comparison as well. 30% increase is no joke
Let me see what I can arrange
@@PassionforSound sweet! Also, is there anyway you can review the dac in the minidsp 2x4 or minidsp 2x4 HD?
It's unlikely I'll review those because I don't tend to EQ my headphones and I don't use speakers enough to go down that path - sorry!
Very important topic of conversation, but on order to go straight for the jugular it is AC regeneration. :)
I'm sorry - I don't understand. These products are outputting DC, not AC.
@@PassionforSound it is the beginning stages of treatment for power. The AC that comes out of your wall outlet goes through an AC regenerator, which cleans and regenerates all new AC power that doesn’t have the tops of sine waves chopped or jagged, which negate the use of LPS’s or conditioners.
I understand now. Sorry, I thought you were saying that the LPSs were doing regeneration.
I actually use an AC regenerator, but have never take the time to explore it's impact of different devices and their sound quality. I will do that soon though...
@@PassionforSound I apologize as well from taking away from the main topic of discussion. LPS’s are great for some gear that warrants it. For Instance I have a Cyrus CD i player and it has its own unique power supply (PSXR-2) that really improves and opens up the sound and makes so much of the internal circuitry components to work less hard.
I also have an LPS for my Chord Qutest. I mainly got an inexpensive one, so I could turn on my Qutest more efficiently, since it uses USB C input to power on. Sound improvements there? I would say no. The USB C SMPS plug that it comes with suffices enough.
Lastly, I got my LPS’s in my sound-chain way before I got my AC regenerator from PS Audio. I ended up getting the P3 Stellar model. That changed everything and became the real deal on all levels. Now of course like you, I’ve never bothered to to run my system without the LPS’s and just the regenerator. Why? I cannot be bothered because the sound is so fantastic and why mess with great power staging? I know. I should try and I will try once you make your video. :) I honestly think it won’t make any difference unless your equipment has inferior components inside them, which I surely doubt they do. AC regeneration is the best, but it never hurts having LPS’s in the chain either. The assurance of ultimate linearity will make your equipment sing and work half as hard. :)
No problems at all. It's funny how once you get a device like the AC regenerator into the system, it's just easier to set it up and enjoy it that to do any back and forth testing. I really need to check out the impact though to see how much it might be improving things...
Impact on the M Scaler?
Yes, I should have mentioned that. It's a marvelous addition to the M-Scaler and provides all the same benefits I described in this video. My Kraftwerk II single was bought specifically for that purpose 🙂🙂
Please review the new Chord Mojo 2
I definitely plan to
Linear power supplies are actually low frequency switching supplies (as was pointed out to me)....The rectifiers are commutators or switches......
That's an interesting way to look at it.
@@PassionforSound Yeah, when you think about it, all the talk of fast switching and soft recovery diodes as rectifiers tells the story. As well as the snubbing networks used to damp down the excitation of the transformer inductance spikes in response to the diode switching. That's partly why people prefer valve rectifiers, as they have different switching characteristics.
I think the wire wound coil in a linear power supply is called a transformer.
Yes it is
Most components don’t have external power supplies so how can these be used? I’m
Confused!
These will work with any device using a DC input from a wall wart. I find there's been about a 50/50 split of mains connections (AC) vs wall wart (DC) connections over the years of my reviewing. Lately though, I'm noticing more mains connections with internal switching power supplies so that makes it a bit trickier
Thanks. This leads me to another confused issue. Power to components is AC and devices stop DC on mains. Yet you are talking about power supplies using DC? So do components use AC or DC?
All audio signals are alternating current so they ultimately need AC at some point, but there are many ways to achieve this and the 110-240V mains inputs are all way too high for audio so they need to be stepped down. This can also occur in different ways. So, the answer is that they use both AC and/or DC and it's up to the designers and what they see as an optimal approach for their particular circuit.
I guess it's a little bit like petrol vs diesel vs gas. All can power an engine, but they all work differently with different pros and cons.
This channel is what the audio enthusiastic needs
Thanks Ran!
SMPS are fine, nowadays event a cheap aliexpress PSU have noise range of 50mV
That's true in theory, but there's still something different about the sound when using a LPS on quite a few devices
@@PassionforSound Well the rule of thumb is as long as i don't need high degree precision in anything, SMPS would do. I mean it is not like I use Oscope to listen to music. The noise level is simply dampened with speaker inertia, in essence, it acts as a low-pass filter. However, if you listen to a lot of music with sudden volume spikes LN transient response would be superior.
Using a $600 (or $900) power supply with a $250 J2 DAC seems a little weird. Like wouldn’t you be better off using that money to get a better DAC? (Same for the E2 amp.)
Yes, I specifically discussed in this video that I don't recommend investing in power supplies for cheap gear when you can upgrade the gear itself. I included those products to make for a broad ranging test.
Why would you put a $600 power supply on a $250 DAC?
I specifically discussed that I don't recommend doing that. I was just looking around for options I had that would accept an input from the LPS for my testing.
I just got the Topping E50 ..and “everyone “ says it scales with better power supply and an improved performance overall….🤔🤔🤔🤔
Yes, I agree. There's no need to go mad with that though - a simple iFi power supply or a battery power bank type setup will be great and won't cost 2-3x the price of the DAC
@@PassionforSound best of the Easter 🐣 season to you and yours…I may go the IFI route for the power supply ..
Thanks for the advice.
🐣🐰
Have you tried a better power supply yet?
@@thaflybear Yup!
I puked up an IFI power supply for the DAC 👍
There’s a cleaner “blacker” background and for the money , the DAC is really quite good.
What I cant stand about those videos: "I tested..." Provides no measurements :(
Some people got too much money and it seems that is directly related to their common sense lol
Whouaou. 600 bucks… 900bucks… that’s pricey
Yes. Linear supplies aren't something of recommend unless people have pretty serious setups and some spare cash left over. 🙂
Get a LPSU on a Qutest 😍
YES! I tried several LPS with the Qutest including a battery, MCRU, Allo Shanti, Sbooster, Farad Super3 and finally the uber expensive Sean Jacobs DC4. I ended up using the Farad Super3 but I have got to say the Sean Jacobs Dc4 power supply took the Qutest sound to simply divine levels of top end / mid range subtlety combined with deep and detailed bass.
@@nickwavehighfidelity7651 Wow you sound like a repository of knowledge. I have questions for you!
-How could you tell if the better was not going to brick it?
-And what are the characteristics of the MCRU vs. the Sbooster (Mk2 Ultra)? Both of those are ones that I'm looking at getting, the Sean Jacobs being somewhat outside of my budget unfortunately!
@@nickwavehighfidelity7651 scratch the question about the MCRU vs. the Sbooster, I found your excellent Head-fi thread!
@@Koopagamelouda Cool, I also did a post on the FaceBook Chord Electronics Owners Group. Basically I would say you cannot go wrong with the SBooster with Ultra Mk2 or with the Farad Super3
Great info! Thanks, Nick!!
All of which begs only the question, exactly who out there is buying a $900 LPS to upgrade the sound of a $169 Aiyima amplifier?
Hopefully no-one. This wasn't about which products you should buy an LPS for so much as an exploration of how LPSs might influence different product types.
@@PassionforSound I got that, but I am of the impression that most audio gear that uses switching power supplies is in a much more affordable segment of the market.
If we imagine, for example, a 10% limit on the reasonable amount to budget for cleaning up one's power, we would need to be adding the $900 LPS to a $9000 system. That seems ... improbable, to me.
That's surprisingly not the case as products like the Chord DAVE, M-Scaler and TT2 all use switching supplies (although TT2 negates this with built-in super capacitors). There are other high-end devices with SMPSs too from Burson and other brands. LPSs and SMPSs both have their pros and cons, but I do think that LPSs seem to sound better in general.
I think the types of people who are happy to buy LPSs are doing it for the experience of tweaking the sound rather it being than a monetary value based decision so I totally get where you're coming from and don't recommend people buying LPSs in general, but I think it's different for those who want to play with LPSs for the fun of it.
@@PassionforSound I'm also being a bit untrue to my own guidance for friends, which is to ignore rules about how much to spend on which thing, and just get what sounds best. Goodness knows I would have been happy to have a $900 fix to my squirrelly power at the last house I owned.
Any decently engineered audio components is designed knowing that the supply voltage provided by those external power pack won't be perfect, they'll have noise / EMI, etc. The power pack that comes with it was chosen by the company so the component will perform as expected, within the provided specs.
If you have a crappy audio component that doesn't perform with the provided power pack, than simply change it instead of trying to compensate by buying external components... Here is a video that demonstrates this: th-cam.com/video/OL23xkLfPTU/w-d-xo.html
The guy provides crappy power to an audio component using a light dimmer, no change on sound quality...
ASR videos and reviews are a dangerous source of information because they're limited to a very small set of measurements based on a limited understanding of what matters when it comes to perceivable sound quality factors.
@@PassionforSoundWrong answer... Facts speaks by themselves. I challenge you and anybody for a blind test in a controlled environment... By the way, you just showed you don't have the knowledge and obviously didn't provide anything to back your claims...
shiet... now i have buy a linear power supply :'(
Sorry! 😁 (And not sorry 😉)
Thanks for the video. Shame they make no difference, if the dac is designed well.
They change nothing relating to the sound, but they make it more "enjoyable" to listen to.
I can't listen to anything without clean power. It simply kills the enjoyment and makes it not worth buying all this audio equipment.
I don't care about great detailed and dynamic sound if I can't enjoy myself while hearing it.
Dave, you might want to check some of the emerging research I linked in the description which demonstrate just one area of human hearing and perception that we still don't understand. DAC designers can't design for things that we don't yet understand so that argument really didn't hold water
@@PassionforSound check out Audio science review. They have done the measurments of what comes out of a dac. If the signal going in is identical to the one comming out, we are all happy. If you can explain in a video of how quiet -140dB is, that may help with people understanding of noise !.
But the way I have had some very good powers supplies, and after extensive listening come to the conclusion that they make no audible difference. I have even had my bluesound node upgraded to a better power supply, again no audible difference. And my speakers doing the test were the very poorly measuring Revel m 126 Be speakers (that's a joke). My amp is a poorly measuring Benchmark AHB 2 (another joke). The Dacs I have used are also well designed.
Checked out the links, but does a linear powers supply improve audio above 20khz. It's is possible to measure don't you think !