for more info on our Reviewer info, patreon, and personal interest in our reviews: nbtsmedia.com/about-us/ Also check out a video about... Hi-Fi Real Talk ! 🚫 STOP "upgrading" the wrong way. Less is MORE th-cam.com/video/zJd2M17Hs14/w-d-xo.html Vintage HiFi speaker drivers like THIS was the BEST for a reason th-cam.com/video/-ruOoVMv2Wc/w-d-xo.html Spotify for Hi-Fi Absolutely Sucks? 🤔 th-cam.com/video/Wj4SXqsDgM8/w-d-xo.html Why you shouldn't buy Chinese Hi-Fi products th-cam.com/video/rvQkJYKYw0o/w-d-xo.html Is HiFi For Rich People because I can't afford anything: th-cam.com/video/E2pjBAq-VgQ/w-d-xo.html Hi-Fi Real Talk ! Maximize/evaluate your Speaker's performance in a small room th-cam.com/video/i1LMzgRWfaI/w-d-xo.html
Power Conditioner = Snake Oil Your Amplifier's power supply convert any AC signal into FLAT "DC" power, then amplifies the music from this DC power. Your Amplifier does NOT use power in AC form. That's the basics of Audio Amplification. So any imperfection gets taken care of in this simple AC to DC conversion step. Every electronic devices use FLAT DC voltage. So you absolutely don't need clean AC signal, period. Seriously. Companies who make these kind of things should be sued for fraud. Utter waste of money, just like $60,000 speaker cables or $1,000 HDMI cables. The niagara 7000 situation you saw & could not reproduce elsewhere was probably due to unacceptably crappy wall power. In such case, get electrician and fix the electric supply lines in the whole house. Absolutely no reason to get power conditioner, period.
Just a question, were those other tests of power conditioners also made in the same store, with potentialy tens of plugged in devices? Did you try this Niagara gear in your home and did it made as big of a diference there?
@@sbkarajan Thank You for your candor. I have a new Parasound Halo amplifier, a new Rotel preamp/ processor & Totem Tibe Mini Tower Speaker. Do you think getting a dedicated line will make an appreciable difference in my overall sound of my system?
Unfortunately, finding the right conditioner is also finding the right power cables. I would have sold my AQ NIAGARA had I kept the Thunder power cord. Some love it, but the Hurricane worked. A friend needed the Firebird. Unfortunately, one must try many cords, and metal surfaces...gold vs silver rhodium vs copper.
Steve, do you have dedicated 15 or 20 amp circuits? or do you share vertical circuits in your apartment building with how many other apt. units? I find power regenerators (PS Audio P12 & P15 Power Plants) does help with sound and imaging making a definite difference in my 1948/1949 built apartment building with the old original wiring and sharing vertical circuits with 5 to 8 other apts. depending on the time of the day.
@@williampearson4968 there’s very little chance you are on “1948” wiring - the insulation would have broken down in the 70’s or 80’s - an oversized medical grade isolation transformer is your friend - a vast majority of “hifi” grade filters are BS or marginally effective at best & yes most are current limiting
I bought the EMI-filter from local electrical shop and Make it to 20 amp. I only use power conditioner for other equipments. I make all cables by myself based on helix structure. Tried more than six versions on each individual cable Finally I feel pretty much satisfied
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room. I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase). 2 questions. Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok? And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc. I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
I'm an electrician and an audiophile. A dedicated run for stereo should be at minimum 20 Amps, but even better is to run a 30 amp wire and make it a 20 Amp circuit by installing a 20 Amp Receptacle and 20 Amp breaker. The 30 Amp wire makes for less voltage drop, and more headroom and clarity.
@@jay12345ist Jaylen, I never call for an electrician or a plumber unless I have a lot of work to do that I know I can't do myself. So in this case when I installed the two dedicated 20 amp lines with 20 amp circuits from take 5 audio and 20 amp switches, I had a few other things done as well. Including adding a main surge/brownout breaker on the main electrical panel. My situation is this, I used to 20 amp circuits one dedicated to my two monoblocks and one dedicated to all of my other components going through a Chang Lightspeed line conditioner. My 20 amp switches are before the receptacles and although I keep my monoblocks on all the time I turn off all my other equipment from the second switch to the Chang Lightspeed. This roughly cost me about $1,000 Canadian for everything. I now get piece of mind and my amps have no dynamics limit. Or at least that's my theory. Does everything sound better this way, yes it absolutely does but only buy a small bit.
@@blkmacster Yes That's what he meant... 10awg to the 20a breaker. That said, regardless whether its a 20a or even a 15a breaker, upsize the run back to the panel with 10awg.
DO NOT CONSIDER A DEDICATED LINE until you check whether it will be quieter than the other lines in your house! I hired an electrician to install two dedicated lines, one for each of my two systems. I wanted to do this because my household electricity was extremely noisy according to my tester. I tested every circuit in my house plus most outlets. They ALL measured very very high in noise. My electrician had never seen such high readings. He thought a dedicated line would not improve my situation and to test it he installed a facsimile of a dedicated using spare wire. The dedicated line was just as dirty as all the other circuits. He then tested the power coming into the house, it was the source of all the noise. So do not install a dedicated line without doing something to verify that it will actually improve your situation.
The dedicated line as you say will not change the noise coming into your system's power supply. It WILL however prevent other devices (such as LED dimers, appliance motors, etc.) from introducing noise on whatever line you have your system plugged into. And this is usually found on the ground and return legs of the AC power. If it is not a dedicated line it will be sharing AC lines. Grounding loops will be virtually eliminated with a dedicated line ... and these are critical for sensitive circuits, such as those in high gain phono pre-amps. Also, look into having a pair of copper grounding rods installed into the earth outside of the dwelling. Something that is now considered code (required) in many new constructions. Have your electrician monitor your AC line direct and then compare it to when you have other devices running, such as AC motors (furnace blower), appliances, LED dimmers, or any PCM dimmers. If he didn't ask for you to do that then I would look for another electrician. After that, then you can consider looking into a power conditioner. The two are not synonymous. They attack different problems through different means.
One of the best things I’ve have done to my audio system was dedicated 20amp breaker with 10awg and on a Hubble hospital grade plug. Would recommend it to anyone getting into the hobby or anyone that has been an audiophile for years. Set a good base and build from there !
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase). 2 questions. Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok? And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc. I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I doubt that there's much of a difference switching from number 12AWG to number 10AWG. Number 10 can get a little hard to work with.
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I know this is a year old post, but if you are running thirsty amps, the 10AWG would be better. If running an AVR, and sources, 12AWG Romex is fine. And like was stated, 10AWG is a bit tougher to work with, especially at the receptacle/outlet. Or, you could homerun a dedicated line/circuit for each amp in your system with the 12AWG, that is what I would do if there is room in your panel. I do all of my own electrical, so it is easy for me to say that.
@@michaelwright1602 well I ended up using 12 guage. I ran 3 dedicated lines. 1 line for my guitar amps and guitar pedals (I record music) 1 line for my PC, audio interface, and different rack mount recording gear. 1 line for my 2 powered studio monitors. thoughts?
I gave you a thumbs up on this but you are actually only 40% correct. The most important thing about a good audio system is the get the Grounding / Earthing correct. It starts at the power distribution board and must be correct throughout your audio system, as well as the rest of the building! Regardless of the audio system being on a dedicated line. Many audiophile tricks such as lifting the wires of the floor are often attempts to fight the Earthing problems that may prevail throughout your audio system and indeed the rest of the building. In our country one of the biggest problems will often be an corroded electrical water heater element. These water heater elements need to be checked frequently. When a good electrician installs the dedicated line, he will also check and correct any Earthing / electrical problems throughout the building.
I bought a 6 outlet furman power conditioner/surge protecter that made a definite difference. the difference may be subjective for everyones taste but I really like it and it cost me $70. Well worth the money.
I had a power conditioner but it was primarily an ACTIVE surge protector. This was worth its weight in gold. My audio system always shutoff seconds before I heard thunder and before the whole house surge protection kicked in. Food for thought!
If you're in a rental property and can't implement his tip here: 6:58, e.g. then a simple alternative is to work out the number of electrical circuit rings in your property and identify if there's one ring that will allow you to remove all devices except your hifi. Even if it's just a temporary removal for one listening session, it's worth doing.
Bad electrical wiring is the main cause. A dedicated circuit is a must. Also whenever possible check existing circuits for faults as problems on one circuit may affect other circuits. All Neutral and ground wires bond together in the service panel. Neutral to ground faults and 2 or more neutrals from seperate circuits mistakenly joined are the most common. Both of these conditions create EMF. Large electrical and magnetic fields are created. Conditioners only help mask the problem but never totally eliminate it and sometimes create other sound quality issues. Test for proper voltage and current on the electrical service coming in from outside. I had a bad main neutral wire in my hydro meter base because of corrosion.
Thanks for your comments I am trying to determine if a dedicated electrical line to my av system is worth the investment. I have a new Parasound Halo amplifier, a new Rotel preamp/ processor & Totem Tibe Mini Tower Speakers Do you think getting a dedicated line will make an appreciable difference in my overall sound of my system? I use Audioquest XLR Cables that run from my amp to my pre/pro I also use AQ biwire speaker cables BTW, The circuit breaker box is in my kitchen closet & my av system is in my livingroom.
@@davidstein9129 a dedicated electrical circuit is a way to help prevent other electrical devices from causing interference on that circuit. If possible don't plug anything else into the circuit. Led lights, fluorescent lights, electrical motors, chargers are sources of EMF. Some equipment is more susceptible to EMF caused interference than others. Electric guitars and amps are highly susceptible. 50/60 hertz hum. If you can hear interference try to determine the source. Try turning off all circuits in the breaker panel except for the one your AV equipment is on and listen for a difference. This will help determine if the interference is from an internal source or an exterior source such as hydro wires, hydro transformer. EMF Center on YT has some good videos explaining EMF, and trouble shooting.
@@solkinar Thank You. I got it. But it does make sense to change out the reception from very old/ cheap one to a Hunble hospital grade plug? Is that correct? I believe that's a DIY easy home project. Thanks!
@@davidstein9129 I don't know what a hunble plug is. Are you referring to an electrical outlet receptical ? I am assuming an outlet with a built-in emi filter/choke. Some people say filters worked for them and others claim it did nothing and sometimes made things worse. For me filters and chokes did nothing. Dirty electricity is almost always the problem. EMF( electromagnetic field), EMI (electromagnetic interference), RFI (radio frequency interference) are things to check for when trouble shooting. Start with the basics. Try different circuits. Check for ground loops. Unplug unrelated devices. Check for proper and damaged electrical wiring. Check for neutral to ground wire faults. Check for proper grounding. Check for a dropped neutral wire. It took me a while to finally find the source of my problem. I eventually bought a clamp on ammeter to check the current and found I had a dropped neutral in my hydro meter base. I had such a large magnetic field being created I could hear my speakers tweeters buzzing when the stereo was off. I unplugged the stereo and the buzzing was still there. I unhooked the speakers and the buzzing was still there. The magnet in the tweeter was being affected by the EMF generated by the dropped neutral. Musicians and recording studios are very aware of EMF.
Totally agree with the dedicated circuit/line directly from the power box. The other thing that can also make a huge difference is a good earth rod/negative grounding. After doing this I got rid of a lot of hum and buzzing in my systems.
@@johnh539 You drive a metal stake which is at least 8 feet long into the ground next to your house, and then run a wire from that stake to the grounding screw on the outlet you plug your gear or even just the amplifier into. This avoids picking up hum and noise from the many other circuits in your home's breaker panel.
Except it’s dangerous because it bypasses earth ground to the circuit breaker so the breaker won’t protect you in case of a fault at the component. The chassis will be hot and touching it could be fatal.
You are correct. It is not a safe way to wire it. With a regular receptacle (not an isolated ground receptacle) the receptacle would theoretically be grounded back to the circuit panel via the mounting strap, but that is only true if the home has metal boxes and all the conduit leading back to the circuit panel is connected securely. Good luck, right? @@lmff620
Excellent thinking. Exactly about 20 yrs ago I had my house remodeled with a dedicated 25A line for my entertainment center. Not really thinking of power conditioning, just enough power to run the system without tripping the breaker, but after listening to you wow that was a great thought, because I was considering a power conditioner. Thx 2 heads are better than one ✌.
This video was very good! I always look for your videos when I have a question or need some trustworthy information. I am also a Master Electrician, retired, but my equipment is not in the right placement...yet. So, no dedicated line...yet. I love the info on the power conditioner and when to get one and which one! Thanks!
I put a dedicated ring for my hi-fi system some 20 years ago, I was refurbing my house just after I purchased it, and I have 4 Triple outlet sockets wired in series. (UK wiring is a RING circuit that runs from the fuse board to socket outlets and back to the same fuse, instead of a Radial circuit that is from the fuse to the last socket) I have no idea if it makes a difference but I am glad I did it as my system is smooth and sweet with great clarity with a controlled and extended base that has good texture, I got this information from reading hi-fi mags over the last 35 years. The only other item that may help your system is to use DC conditioners, DC voltage can be a problem and even on a dedicated supply can exist.
Yup, you're right. I ran a dedicated 20A home run for my Krell KSA 150, KSP&B about 15 years ago and it really did the trick. Fortunately, I'm a mechanical engineer and more than comfortable doing all of my own electrical so mine came at almost no cost as I always have plenty of Romex, outlets ... etc ... on hand. I also found this approach beneficial for my computers as well.
What other makes of outlets do you recommend? I don't see Romex outlets available online but maybe I missed them somewhere in my search. I did see their wiring for sale.
I'm trying to determine if the cost of highering an electrician to put in a dedicated line will make an appreciable difference in the performance of my av system. I have recently upgraded my gear. I purchased a used Parasound Halo amplifier, a refurbished Rotel preamp/processor & Totem Acoustic Tribe Mini Tower Speakers. So, just to confirm, IYO a dedicated line would be a good investment for me at this point? Thanks So Much, Dave
You are so correct I had my electrician install a dedicated line for my home theater system which is 20 amps and I use a battery backup and a Furman 7 outlet power conditioner and the difference is unbelievable!!!
You sound a lot more humble now, not that you were arrogant, but in terms of tone, it feels that way. :P enjoyed your videos so far! Thank you for doing this.
US homes built before 1974 have aluminum wiring and cheap breakers- doesn't move juice as good as modern copper. Insist on 10 AWG wire from the box to your new sockets or you'll get the cheap code 14 AWG. Use premium wall outlet
Great handling of a sensitive topic. What you said all makes sense! Line level components can benefit from simple power conditioning as they only output a few volts max. Of course you notice the noise in the quiet passages so millivolts of audio is easily affected by low level noise. Power amps have high voltage rails and big capacitors which will filter out most noise as long as the line input is clean. Power amps are more sensitive to current not voltage. Dynamics will suffer if current is restricted. Surge protector are the big enemy, their very name suggest they restrict current surges. Another easy solution is just buy high efficiency speakers. Very low current demand! Also why they are more dynamic sounding!
I have very good experience with Naim gear. One thing you should know about Niam is, they need to left on all the time . Every time you switch it off it takes a week to regain its top performance. And, Naim gear absolutely does not work with conditioners and p-regeneration devices. Definitely the sound will alter, but it will take away the PRAT factor Naim gear is know for.
Extremely important to leave on if you can.I had a British intergrated amp that was only turned off maybe less than 10 times in 20 years! That mostly due to a storm or power outage ! The amp died last year unfortunately 😂!
I had a dedicated power line installed. And I listened to my stereo plugged into that for a year. Till I recently tried plugging in my integrated amp directly, instead of via my isotherm isolator, and it sounded absolutely horrendous. Upon taking some measurements I figured that my direct line was the dirtiest and the noisiest line in the whole house. I’m not sure what my electrician did with that direct line, but my stereo sounded a whole lot better when I just plugged into a different shared outlet. This experience and left me more confused than ever.
My experience from the 1000 model is very positive. It is very possible that it is a better value for money than the bigger models even if they perform better considering the cost difference.
I agree. I want to be happy with the basic sound quality before i try to enhance it with power conditioners or listening room wall, ceiling & corner bass-trap treatments. If i sit right up close to my speakers, almost inbetween them & angle them in directly at my ear height, or place them side by side & sit < 1 metre in front of the inward angled pair but find i'm not at all happy with the sound... (like said on this video, i have tried this just to see how my room effects the sound from my normal listening sofa & it deffinately does) ...then i fail to see how listening room accoustic treatments will improve things or power conditioners improve things much if the sound source is not right & unpleasant in the 1'st place from a position where room reflections don't enter into the equation. There is a widespread total misconception that our equipment sits on the end of wires & recieves electricity as if the mains wiring is recieving power like water from taps when you run a bath or a tap piped from the house's water main & this couldnt be further from the truth. Our equipment effectively sits inbetween the 'live' & the 'neutral' wires of the house's mains wiring & distance from where the electricity comes into the house or the plugs placement along the wiring is 100% irrelevant, unlike water taps who's pressure drops with distance & height from the incoming water main. This means that appliances with half-wave rectifiers like drills, hair dryers, fridges, heating system's motors & a host of other non-hi fi appliances can detrimentally effect the whole house's power by reflecting it's created distortion of the electrical A.C. sine wave back onto our mains line & even from the house next door or houses further along up to a point, all depending on how the local voltage step-down power transformer routing is feeding a number of houses, but you'll only notice it on hi-fi reproduction or mains powered radio or on cheaper TV pictures. Pity they never run an independent spur from the localised power transformers & into each individual house but they never do, they daisy-chain the mains along the houses up to a point of X number of houses before the next localised mains voltage stepdown transformer takes over for houses further along. All that is why (i.m.firm.o.) a dedicated power line just for your equipment, resistance slugged or 1:1 transformer isolated from the rest of your wiring, will help enormously or at least noticeably but definately worth doing for peace of mind, esp' because of half-wave rectifiers in our own house. Non hi-fi appliances put no expense into making sure their rectifiers & motors or active components dont reflect distortion back into the powerline, there's normally nothing beyond a simple supressor to stop your hi-fi or tv or battery radio buzzing away because of active components transmitting EMF radio wavelength noise via air- transmitted noise. There's one bad lawn mower somewhere along the line of the 9 houses that my house sits on, that when i hear it going, it causes my stereo to buzz away like bees inside the speaker, this is not being recieved into my amp through the air... (for many decades, our power & preamps are all protected from recieving & amplifying radio signals & amplify them through our speakers) ...but by that particular bad lawn mower putting a gross distortion back onto it's power line as it sits between the same 'live' & 'neutral' wires that also feed my house & will cause all tv's or hi-fi's connected to the same daisy chained wiring line along the road. Idealy, we'd run a single power line directly onto the local voltage step-down transformer's secondary from our houses, there's one nearby all house groupings in residential & city areas, even if you havent noticed it, it's usually inside at least a 20 × 20 ft area protected with high steel wired fence & locked gate or simllar around the giant sized voltage step-down transformer inside. Shame it's illegal to do that. We've our local step down transformer diagonally across the footpath in front of my house, & i'd have to tunnel under the footpath like some dude from "The Colditz Story" but 2'nd best is a dedicated power spur isolated from your incoming mains.
Good Jay, this is something I try to help with often. There is a bit more I could add to it. - Try to have power load on each leg of the panel as even possible - Dedicated line and circuit breaker for amplifier - Then have all your other electronics on a circuit that's breaker is connected to the same leg as the amplifier's breaker in panel - Then to take to the next level, make sure the Panel's grounding wire is Thermowelded to the grounding rods. Also, make sure the grounding rods are to code, proper distance apart, depth...etc.
Great video Jay. You can thank whoever gave you that sage advice to install a dedicated power line. I was fortunate to move into a house for many years now whose owner had rented out one room and installed a separate line entirely. So the whole room has its own meter that is billed separately. I only bought a 1000W AVR and that's it. System is always dead quiet. No substitute for it.
@@AT-wl9yq I did not set it up as I don't own it and would never spend my money on some completely unnecessary piece of gear. I does nothing of worth and any audio device leads via filters with the input AC easily. That was being measured with the P5.
Before installing a new line, try to figure out what else is sharing the line/circuit and unplug/move them or turn them off while you're listening to your stereo. Also, all appliances in your kitchen shouldn't be a problem as all electrical lines/circuits in the kitchen (except for lighting) are not shared with anything else in the house (electrical code requirement).
I would hear occasional hissing through my headphones late at night. I discovered that is was the fridge kicking in and out, even though the fridge was not on that line. Power conditioners on the front end solved that issue. Everyone’s experiences may be different.
@@ramsaybolton9099 My last house had the same issue, the fridge thermostat kicking in caused a click through the amp. Very frustrating. In my new house there are also random clicks heard through the amp and I don't know what it is. Even more frustrating
It all depend of two factors if it is working or not . 1 - If your equipment have well made filters in the power supply then mostly you will not experience any noticable difference . 2 - If your power supply line in the house / appartment is relative noise free ( no heavy industry close to your main line ) then again you will not notice anything . It is very much equipment and source power quality dependent . Where I live the power lines are extremely bad and filled with lots of spikes and noise . A real nightmare to eliminate this in my little home studio / HighEnd equipment . My personal problem number one is this noise combined with NO grounding at all . I have set up ground and grounded my equipment myself and it helped a lot . I have two computers connected to my studio . One laptop that suffered so much from the main power lines noise and spikes that I ended up using an isolation transformer and filter . It worked but it have a professional USB external soundcard where ground is not same potential as the other equipments ground level so I had to level this out by using a ground ' lifter ' and it worked gone was noise . My big computer on the other hand really doesn't care about the noise and spikes because the filters in the power supply simply phase this out very effectively . My two Eq's I use for recording they have almost no filter and suffered too so my solution was to change the filter in the powersupplies and that did the trick . My 3 power amplifiers they also doesn't care at all , because the filters simply just works so effective . Now my biggest problem ended up being my second Firewire Professional soundcard / ADC - DAC it have same ground level problem as the other one . Simply connect the ground to the main ground loop will make everything noisy . Solution was to connect the ground in paralell with the USB soundcard / ADC - DAC . They ended up on same ground level and gone was noise when connected back to the main ground loop , but it requires a seperate cable from the ADC -DAC to the ground connection on the amp and down to the chassic on the main computer . ( keep in mind I use a ground lifter on the UBS sound card / ADC -DAC and the lifted ground is routed with the cable ) Yes that solution works just nice ( sometimes it defy any logic ) I also have a big Tube / valve Guitar Amplifier and when record / play on that I have to wire up a seperate ground cable and connect it to the computers ground . Result , totally silence . My only remaining problem is a Guitar effects pedal that was as good as impossible to lift to correct ground potential / level . result - when I touch the strings and at same time have my feet on the floor it make a terrible noise . But I kind of solved it by simply use thick socks . When I wear those thick socks there is no noise sound from the pedal . ( sometimes the obscure tricks seems to work just fine ) Also a thing as a simple cable can pick up noise as hell . My guitar cable if I just toss it on the floor in front of the computer will pick up extreme amount of noise ( yes it is a HQ shielded cable ) but if I move it just 10 cm away it be gone . All cables in the system is carefully routed around and away from potential noise sources . This is a real trial and error thing to do because sometimes it doesn't comply with any logic for where to put them . Even my big computer screen suddenly suffered from shadows in the picture . Well the signal /VGA cable run beside the power cable to my 18 inch Powered subwoofer and by moving it a little away then picture was perfect . Funny enough the subwoofer was totally unaffected by the Screen / VGA cable . ( No noise there and it's 5000 W Amplifier remain silent ) Getting rid of power line Noise and ground noise and such can really be a pain in the A............ s . We all use different equipment and different cables ans setups ect ect , and what is working for one may not work for another person . This is the strange world of HiFi - HighEnd - Music Studio - Musician - ect , headache in a nutshell . There is so many strange solutions to all kinds of troubles some work for me but wont work for you . It all depend of individual situations and equipment and power lines , ground cables , placement ect ect ect . Very good video and a good explanation , I can only agree on your thoughts as seen from your perspective with your setup and equipment ect . I am shure it can help some fellow entusiasts out there . Keep it up : ) Ps - USB power conditioners can be very effective if your Pc / ADC -DAC is too noisey . I used some years ago a PCI card power conditioner to remove PCI bus noise . YES it worked in my old setup but not my new . Also when thinking on buying a power line power conditioner , Try see if possible to try it out before final buying . This way you can try several solutions and find one that work for you . The Idear about getting a seperate Electric line / dedicated line Is what most studios actually doing to get isolated from the rest of the lines . This work very effectively . ( still you can get noise from outside , factories , heavy industry , bad main lines neighbours noisy equipment , motors ect ect ) Last and very important - Remember to get a seperate ground too for your new line . Edit - sorry for my eventually typos , im in my coffe right now : )
Even Paul McGowan says, unless you spend a huge amount of money on a proper power regenerator bypass all power conditioners and plug directly into a dedicated line. You can also add a surge protector in your main panel quite easily.
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase). 2 questions. Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok? And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc. I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
@@levijessegonzalez3629 You will not see any improvement in transmission (unless your lines are ridiculously long) from 12 to 10AWG. The extra thickness in gauge only makes the 'pipe' bigger in the same way a larger hose can transmit more water, but it can only transmit the amount of flow available not increase it. Romex is fine for AC and is what you should be using. There is zero difference doubling up your receptacles but, there certainly can be a difference using power strips depending on their build.
I had problems with the line as my source would glitch for just a sec with fridge coming on. I changed the receptacle itself first this all cleared up. Good recetacles are tighter and connection is better. $3.99 fixed. Start there. I'm an electrcian/technician. so I recommend that you get help if you are not sure how to do this. Then you may want to add a cct dedicated for your audio..If you need more than i cct install a split plug which will give you double the power and can be installed for the very little extra cost.
Hi Jay thanks for the review I think your point is well taken don't go crazy on a power conditioner until you have the other components first. My dealer is a Naim, Vinnie Rossi, Lyngdorf, Rega, Clearaudio, Innuos, Chord and NAD dealer for electronics. For cables and electronic accessories he's a firm believer in Audience. I have a new Naim Nait XS3 Integrated Amplifier. Bluesound Node 2i Streamer, an old Kenwood (1990) CD Player and Project DC TT. My dealer promotes the Audience Forte V8, a very basic power conditioner. He specifically does not believe in surge protection "let the internals of the unit do their job." Anyway. after watching your video about a year ago for budget reasons I took my chances with the little round $99 white ifi power conditioner plugged into a straight power strip no surge protection. I should also point out I am not running on a dedicated line. The TV and cable equipment are plugged into the same circuit 6 feet away. It's difficult for one person to do A/B comparisons so I go with my first impression. My first impression after the ifi was I could tell no difference. Four months after purchasing the Naim and Bluesound I had squirreled up the $900 for the Audience Forte V8. No way I was telling the wife "I spent $900 on a power strip!!!" Currently Audience is throwing in the power cord which is a $150 savings. I plugged the Forte V8 into the wall, the ifi into the other socket in the wall so theoretically I am getting some surge protection? Who knows? The Amplifier into the first socket, Bluesound into the second socket etc. there are 8 sockets and sat down on the couch to listen. I started with the Streamer. I was startled by how much improvement there was in clarity and and overall sound quality as a first impression. I was sure it was better. I won't say this specific or that specific part of the sound was better I really don't know? 20 minutes later my wife came home from work. She thinks a "Bose Wave Radio" sounds great it does make my audiophile pursuit life difficult. It was nuclear war to get the two new pieces over my 37 year old Denon PMA 750 since it still worked. My speakers are Martin Logan Motion 15's, next stop new speakers (my wife wants to go back to the little Bose cubes put a spike through my head. "They were fine until you went into that stereo store...") But I digress. She comes home, "is that the 'Stream' she calls it you are listening too?" (we are 62 and 58) "Yes, it sounds really good today doesn't it?" "I've never heard it sound that good." I didn't say a word.
I recently took mine out of the system. I was amazed at how much dynamics improved, as well as bass response without it in the system. They must seriously “choke” the current.
i can understand your experience. Though, i'd have to surmise, you've come to a conclusion too quickly. Maybe just the conditioner you used wasn't up to the task? Replacing it with a quality unit you *might* have a totally different experience. i had a sub hooked up to a conditioner made for computer equipment for years because of the protection it offered. i read somewhere computer conditioners are terrible for audio equipment. I figured, well, let's test out the theory. I took the sub out of the conditioner, put it in the wall... and BAM! huge, huge improvement... couldn't believe i'd kinda wasted my subwoofer performance for so many years. however, i surmise that was just because it was the wrong type of conditioner. i'm now looking to add something better since i dont like the sub unprotected. So, i'll be trying a few.
Valid points Jay! I use a UPS from General Electric (VH Series) You can set the frequency and voltage and it generates this nice sine from batteries, I have used it on a JBL S7150 power amp and it was not limited in power.
During the day my sound system sounds like it wants to distort the sound while during the night it sounds so much better and this is something that I've learnt along as time goes on. This happens on a DENON AVR-3808 straight to the wall AC outlet without a power conditioner or line filter. My thoughts for a dedicated electrical AC outlet? Before I'd to anything like that I'd be checking with an oscilloscope, before the circuit breaker board (basically straight off the meter) and thereafter the circuit board to see the difference and also when appliances are running together just to see if the oscillation frequency changes. Then you can decide on what's best for you, what works for you because every system is so different👍
I finally ran a dedicated 20 amp line with aluminum armoured (for shielding) 10/2 copper solid core cable to a Furutech outlet in which I plugged in my integrated and an active sub. The dynamics improved even though I was still running the TV and all the audio sources off a cheap Monster surge protector plugged to a regular separate outlet. Recently purchased a Furman PST-8D to replace the old Monster. TV picture seems cleaner but digital audio sounds..well, way more digital as in shrill. My records on the other hand never sounded better. Bummed yet pleased? I'm hoping a break in period will smooth things out.... Or get a divorce and get what I've always wanted, a Bryston Bit 20. Initially made by Torrus, Bryston bought the company because it does exactly what it says it does: your own isolated clean power transformer in your living room with built in protection and faster access to massive power swings for unrestricted dynamics! As you might suspect, the club membership is prohibitive.
Agreed on conditioners. I use the Niagara 5000, Hurricane power cord. The power cord is very important with these. The Thunder was too warm and fat sounding to my ears, in my system. The Hurricane fit the bill. Matching is exhausting, but wall outlets, cable choices all affect conditioner success. The rest of my cables I make myself using rhodium ends.
I agree with a dedicated 12awg or 10awg running rom the power box to your hifi area in your house and also a good wall plug. I wouldn’t go for a 20A breaker, even though the 10-12 mains would handle it, as the components are probably rated to 15A max internals and if a problem should occur the 20A breaker would allow 20A to reach them. And just to specify, by code in Québec at least, a refrigerator, a niche microwave, countertop outlets, a built in dishwasher are all required to be on a dedicated circuit with no other outlets chained to them.
The most promising looking power regenerator I have seen is the PS Audio Stellar Power Plant 3, comes with a free shipping 30 day risk free trial. And in some of their TH-cam videos Paul acually explains how it works so you can figure out if you actually need one.
I was super skeptical about regenerators but tried a PS Stellar regenerator and ended up keeping it. Not a huge difference but noticeable enough that I didn’t want to send it back.
@@CaptainCrunch823 agreed. i have two PS audio regenerators - the stellar 3 for my low-power equipment (dac, &c.), and an older perfectwave powerplant 10.
I have a dedicated 20A line and PSA P20 regenerator. Although the line is dedicated, the built-in oscilloscope on the P20 clearly shows the difference between the input and output voltage and the amount of garbage that is in the voltage. P20 is the foundation of my system.
I have two 20A dedicated lines, one supposedly for amp and ended not using it since got the P20.👍 Still sound better with ALL into it despite comparison vs amp direct, also with P10 on that separate line! Considering a second P20 now.. Shunyata Sigma HC/XC pc works best for me, hope to try out their new Omega XC soon.
Please explain why a dedicated circuit is proven to sound better. Just because it goes strait to the panel doesn't mean its immune from noise. In fact it is directly connected to every circuit on that buss bar. Remember X-10? Breakers do not filter or isolate from noise. Measuring voltage under load will tell you its properly installed and not overloaded.
Right. Seems is the voltage control and lack of additional load on the skinny 15 amp wires that you are trying to fix. With dedicated circuit you dont share the load with other items on the line.
He can't, it's just audiophile bs. The disclaimer line "if you're here for technical explanation the. Click off" is simply and out he can use to say "I can't explain or measure it but I hear a difference" no Jay you don't, at least not in reality. You might think you do because you just paid how ever much for this line to be run but it does nothing. I would be happy to put a scope on a power line to show you the noise then scope the output of your Naim amp's power supply to show you that Naim filters out all of that, if it didn't their incredibly expensive amps would sound like shit.
If you understand the basics of electricity and how apartments, condos and single family homes are wired, it's very simple to figure out. A direct line to the audio equipment compared to a line that is piggy baked with numerous light switches and plugs wired in series really doesn't need any explanation. If one switch or plug fails, loose connections or a loose wire nut etc will effect your stereo. It's as simple as that.
Very very true! Most homes have atleast 5 outlets on one breaker...many extra feet of wire as well. Jumping from one fixture to the next. Not much left to play with...when we start plugin our our hobby!
My thought is that the power line as been through thousands of houses before it gets to your house and its a known fact that it is heavily polluted when you receive it. I can see a dedicated line would stop any interference from your house going on the line but its like trying to close the stable door when the horse as already bolted. A dedicated line from the Power station now I could see great value in that. Any thoughts
A sine wave battery backup will condition the power. These are used in data centers to ensure the power to a server is clean for sensitive equipment. It also protects from surges and adjacent noise from other electrical equipment. Isolated ground outlets maybe necessary if there is feedback for highly sensitive equipment. For the video, I am assuming the electrician installed an isolated ground outlet and bonded in the panel then drive an additional copper rod into the earth a far distance from the other grounds, plumbing, and gas lines.
When we built our house I had a shielded dedicated line put in. I finally got to use it with my audiophile power distributor via a heavy duty shielded power cable. Good tip, Jay. Interesting to hear your experience with the Naim. I made the exact opposite experience since I went from an untreated system next to RF transmitters (WLAN routers) to using the dedicated power sockets and RF shielding on all power cables. Wow! Blacker background, deeper bass, more detail, energetic highs. it started sounding like the $25000 system it would be if I had to replace everything today. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
@@babagandu It was part of our design for the house as we specified it. If you wanted to do this after the house is built, you would probably need to get an electrician to make a dedicated power outlet socket near your hifi and feed it from the main connection to the house with shielded cable. I hope this was helpful. Alll the best, Rob
Years ago, I tried a Chang Lightspeed Power Conditioner briefly and haven't used any since. I plug my amplifiers directly into the wall outlet and think they work well. I did change my wall outlets to a commercial grade 20A so they're a little more rugged.
I had the AudioQuest passive shunts in my system before. They worked. So did the PS Audio Powerplant Premiere. I am finding out that grounding can have significant SQ gains.
OK, a non-technical question. On your last video regarding the 300B integrated amp; Where did the intro music come from? I went back and listened, then, picked up my left-handed Strat and spent about 45 minutes building upon those Notes. Had a blast, Thanks.
When I was having my theater built, I had 2 20amp lines run to a pony panel - really made a difference in the quality of the sound and less wear on components.
Well, higher voltage provides twice the power (W) with the same gauge wire and circuit breaker. 120V x 10A = 1200W. Hifi gear doesn't need all that much power for a living room. -In Finland we have 230V and it's regulated to be stable. But a UPS device can save a computer from a lightning strike.
There must be something wrong with my supply and the box because a dedicated line did nothing to improve my system. The DAC still looses its signal when a certain light switch is turned off which I thought a dedicated line would fix. It’s frustrating and so I’m looking to a power conditioner now to see if that works.
Good video. So what I expect the conditioner to do is eliminate the AC noise. What I have in my system is a 20 amp regulatior. This is the foundation of my system. My noise floor is bottomless pit quiet. As for sound improvement I'm sure its there inherently, but I don't this the issue is so much as what you hear as what you don't hear.
I get sub popping randomly when my system is 100% shut off but my Definitive technology tower are plugged in the wall. i was thinking of buying different things to try. what do you think i should try?
Having a clean AC is absolutely vital for power amp as the operate in Analogue domain. Jay you hit the main point with most power conditioners, they are current limiting. If one is serious about getting the cleanest power supply, forget about expensive power regeneration devices and just go powering from a DC power. With proper design this will provide all the current a highend audio system will ever need and is completely decoupled from the grid and the associated noise and interference. Let's discuss a solution that takes your idea of dedicated line to the next level and having your own power source. I run my system using AC supplied by two AC inverters. A 3000w sustained and 5000w peak Pure Sine wave inverter runs the power to the analogue amplifiers. Then a 1000w Pure Sine Wave inverter supplies power to all the digital components. The DC power for these inverters are drawn from a bank a 16x 120Ah LFP batteries, each capable of outputing over 200A. They are connected in parallel to support over 3200A current draw. The 16x LFP are organised in a 4x4 matrix. Providing 4 banks of batteries, with each bank consisting of 4x LFP connected in parallel with a custom 500A flexible busbars. 4x of these battery banks joins together at the Victron Lynx 1000A busbar system to power the inverters. The LFP batteries are kept charged using solar. 6x Victron SmartSolar 100/50 controllers are connected to 16x Sunpower Maxeon 3 400w panels to collect the solar energy during daytime. As you can see see, this solution provides practically unlimited amounts of current that any audio system would ever require. And the solution is totally green and sustainable. The big plus is, there is absolute zero snake oil component in this solution because we know that it absolutely works! The science speaks for itself 😊🌞🌞🌞
_"If one is serious about getting the cleanest power supply, forget about expensive power regeneration devices and just go powering from a DC power. With proper design this will provide all the current a highend audio system will ever need and is completely decoupled from the grid and the associated noise and interference."_ And so is the power supply in every device you own.
As posted on your recent video on tweaks. I also have not had much luck with power conditioners. They have their place. However, I concur. The greatest improvement to my system has been dedicated 20 amp circuits where the electrician paid considerable attention to eliminating ground loop hum.. He owned VTL Wotan's and knew exactly what I needed for my Amps. I found that to be far more effective than either power conditioners or insanely priced, after market power cords.
I can only comment on my personal experience. I have four tube guitar amplifiers that I will have on at the same time with a signal splitter switching between them. I was getting a terrible hum which I suspected was a ground hum. After I plugged all the amps into a furman pl c plus the hum was gone
I have always installed a dedicated circuit ground it properly and install it from it's own consumer unit .Nothing else gets plugged into this circuit. My new music room a separate building will also benefit from a ballanced mains unit on that circuit installed next to the consumer unit .
Hey Jay - you said that with power conditioners, "you get what you pay for" and then you said that the rate of diminishing returns was very high for them. Aren't those two statements in conflict? To me, "getting what you pay for" would seem to indicate a linear relationship between money spent and what you get, as opposed to the diminishing returns model. Thanks!
Well I hope you understood what I mean. I meant more money usually dictates more for power conditioners. Not a linear line relationship. Excuse my poor statement
My Costco power conditioner may save my TV from exploding but it seems to make my stereo more fatiguing. However my system can sound different from day to day. Sometimes wonder if it’s in my head.
No, probably not in your head . I suspect the weather and time of day. Due to air density and humidity. Humidity will impact density. Another interesting one is the difference in sound caused by moving from Western Australia to Texas. Nup, not a joke . It's to do with construction methods used.
This is a great topic. In my experience, power conditioners helped some of my equipment, other equipment, not noticeable. A lot of the gain of "performance/sound quality" depends on the quality of the power feed to your home. The worse it is, the more noticeable will be the improvement from the power conditioner. Some power service areas have very good steady sinusoidal AC voltage, others can be awful. If you are getting "gritty" power fed to your home, you usually won't notice it on appliances, but it can reek havoc of stereo equipment. Also, you may have ineffective grounding at your home, or at least ground loop problems inherent in your home. Power conditioners solved two problems I was having. First, on a high current high power amp (i.e. 400wpc, 4ohm, 10hz to 30khz band width). The amp does not have a soft/delayed start, so when you power up, when connected to high efficiency speakers, you get a hard pop. Similarly, powering down causes a hard pop. A great sounding older amp that I almost parted with until I ran it through a switched feature on a power conditioner. Power on still had some pop, but much less and the power down pop was completely eliminated. This was really awesome. Another problem I was having was RF hum between some components. Improving the quality of rca connectors did help some with shielding, but did not satisfactorily reduce it. Connecting components to the power conditioner removed the hum. Very quiet ground floor. Additionally, since I always run the equipment through surge protection anyway, the power conditioners provide a nice central hub to connect a lot of gear. For me, they have been great and each of them were purchased under $1k. It would seem that unless you are running extremely high power amplification, going to a 5 or 10k+ power conditioner isn't likely to be a good return on investment.
I concur...People give their opinions and do what they want, yet i tend to listen to people who work on LIVE concerts and huge clubs with monster systems, lime the Paradise Garage, Studio 54, Zanzibar, Ministry of Sound, etc..If you do not take care of the current coming into your system,it's all moot...
I enjoyed reading your post. I live in a highrise building. I also have a high voltage power station 2 blocks away. I use an Audioquest Power2 surge suppressor for my amps & av sources. I have not had any audible noise thus far. It seems like a Dedicated electricity line would make sense given my situation. I am skeptical about Power conditioners, although I like Audioquest products & use their cables in my av system. Given what I said, do you have any advice? Thanks!
@@michaels5166 Hi Michael, I have a question for you Michael. I, like you, tend to listen to av professionals more than casual hobbyists. I live in a 45 year old highrise building. I purchased some used fairly high-end audio gear...a dedicated Parasound Halo amplifier, a Rotel pre/pro...Audioquest XLR (balanced) cables for my amp, pre!/pro & OPPO Blu-ray & DAC. I also use an Audioquest surge protector. It seems like an unnecessary expense to have a dedicated powerline for my gear. Any thoughts about this?? Thanks, Dave
Thanknyoy for this. Do you mind listing what other products you used that had the less desirable effects and/or no noticeable change from plugging into a wall?
Jay, in your talk you emphasized a dedicated line for the amplifier. Well you've peeked my curiosity. What if you have monoblocks? Should there be 2 dedicated lines, one for each amp? And what about preamp, DAC, source? Should there be dedicated lines for each of these also? I'm asking out of ignorance. Or should there just be a set of outlets (5-10) that are dedicated through one line to only be used for one's audio equipment?
@@Jayiyagi Great, so one dedicated line just for audio equipment that may have a number of outlets arising from that one dedicated line. But don't go overboard with the outlets (obviously, I added the last part). (:
The grounds are bussed together at the panel along with the neutrals. Yes you will have the resistance of romex back to the panel. Romex has a resistance of 2.5 ohms per 1000 feet, if your run was more than 250ft I would be shocked thats half an ohm between the grounds, that's a non factor. It will make no difference once so ever if they are on the same or different circuits. You can test this with a volt meter if you want if you have long enough leads to reach the ground lug of 2 different circuits.
A dedicated line coming from what source ? Coming from the global circuit breaker ? Or .... ? Because there's a single electrical meter coming from the main supply in the city network, not two ..... So i don't understand. In any case, all lines will share the one electrical meter ....
I have PS20, great security and noticible sound performance, i use it with MC1.25 mono-blocks and no limitations in sound... i did HomBridge plugin (for Apple Home integration) for it that start the equipment before i get back to home (heat it up)
In my opinion that a catered line will make a 0 difference with noise. They are all connected to the same line coming into your house so you will still get the noise from everything in your house and also noise from your neighbors house If connected to the same transformer
This in essence is true, but is does make a difference how close you are to the noise source. I have noticed DC / transformer hum problems with dimmers in one floor, which I did not have an another floor in the house. So yes a dedicated group can still have a positive impact, but will not remove all noise.
I had a dedicated line installed by a professional electrician and I still experiencing interference with buzzing or humming when the microwave or the washer and dryer are being used what else can I do???
What abt surge protectors or Online UPS? In South east Asia we get a lot of outages as well as voltage fluctuations that could blow the amps or speakers!
Great info! I wonder if a DC system could help with powering an amp. In theory, if you build up sotred energy in a battery, it should put out power at a certain voltage and thus give you peak performance. Using a Blueti power box with AC outlets...? Just curious.
Can i plug an Audioquest Niagara 3000 to a 1000w or 2000w Stavol Matsunaga AVR ? (reason being, power fluctuation is bad here where I live). Will it be bad for my power amplifier if i do this? (Primaluna EVO400 tube poweramp)
Hi Jay. When you talk about a dedicated line do they actually run another power line from the street or is it all done in the fuse box from just the one cable coming from the street power line?
Hello, what do you think about the PS Audio Power Plant equipment? Are they really worth? At the moment I'm looking forward to this or a Niagara from Audioquest to supply current to my equipment.
I wonder if in the Naim - Niagara 7000 experiment, whether there was external interfernence on the line at the time? I find it risky to base a recommendation on a sample of one, rather than a relationship which has been widely repeated over many years over many product combinations. Or else it could be that multiple small benefits to the source equipment outweighed the negative impact on the power amp. An acquaintnace mine just informed his Luxman amp greatly improved at my recommendation to remove his Luxman from the Niagara 1200 and plug it straight into the wall instead.
im just on with installing my dedicated lines.im going to fit at least 5 one for each appliance.run them back to a new electric board.then the sparky will take over. are you aware of any low noise breakers to be used actually inside the fuse box? cheers
Actual technical testing indicates that power conditioners make no difference. Makes one wonder about the value of audio reviewers evaluations in general, for those who claim to hear a difference with power conditioners.
No need to wonder about anything. You try it yourself and if you don’t hear a difference or do - that’s just that. Lots of good return policies in 2022
Indeed. None of them affect/filter the power in the audible freqs. Most of the time you are paying $$$ for 'power duplicators'. You get the same electrical signal the other side.
Did you try Puritan conditioners? I was thinking of trying them (ps106-dc) for DC hum on my power transformers, which is especially noticeable in a desktop setup. Apparently they are very well received by a lot of audiophile reviewers, including 6 moons and the Audiophile Guy. Not a typical marketed brand and seems to be a very honest guy/owner.
Great tip bud!! Back 40 years ago, we would say that to our "audiophile clients". Also, here's another tip, do a listening session on jazz, classical, something not too hard and loud, and also records you know well. Try a session at 5 pm, and same session at 10 pm...sounds different. Why? At 5 pm EVERYONE IS HOME using the computer, dishwasher, stove, fridge is open like it's an air conditioner...all these factors affect the noise level in your line. I remember a client had some medical grade power transformer (how he got it...no clue!) but this thing was the size of a small bar fridge!!!! LMAO, it also ran on 240v....but he had McIntosh gear from A to Z. On Electro-voice Patricians!!! Wow. Simply...Wow!!! when money isn't a problem...LOL Cheers and great vid!
I have a Belkin Pure AV power cleaner. I found it reduced white noise heard from my speakers by about half. Worth it to me for $350. I heard no detriment to the sound quality.
With a dedicated circuit (I'll be installing a dedicated 20A line for my system when I start putting it together), would you recommend having ONLY the amplifier connected to it, or can it safely share the circuit with the other components (receiver, game consoles, projector, etc.) without having sound negatively affected?
@@JPSurratt1986 That's what my plan ended up being once I double checked the specs on my Krell KAV-1500. It'll get its own dedicated 20A circuit and the rest of the components will be on an AVR that'll also have its own 20A circuit.
Thanks Jay. I do have a dedicated 20 amp circuit since last October. But I always had my PS Audio power conditioner to my amp. I removed it from my amp and used it for upstream components after watching this video. And my soundstage depth doubled! And I have been lowering my volume like 3 times in 3 hours. I guess the previously un-used dynamic headroom alone sufficiently explains that phenomenon. Probably cleaner power to the upstream helps too. Everything sounds so good and dynamic even when I am doing laundry LOL. To PS Audio credit, after all these years I only notice today that the 'zones' actually have one labelled 'Amplifier' (RTFM moment), presumably by-passing the choke. Anyway, no urge to trying that option any time soon. And seeing someone saying good thing about PS PC below, I should add that mine is the early gen entry level PC, not the fancy re-generator.
for more info on our Reviewer info, patreon, and personal interest in our reviews: nbtsmedia.com/about-us/
Also check out a video about...
Hi-Fi Real Talk ! 🚫 STOP "upgrading" the wrong way. Less is MORE
th-cam.com/video/zJd2M17Hs14/w-d-xo.html
Vintage HiFi speaker drivers like THIS was the BEST for a reason
th-cam.com/video/-ruOoVMv2Wc/w-d-xo.html
Spotify for Hi-Fi Absolutely Sucks? 🤔
th-cam.com/video/Wj4SXqsDgM8/w-d-xo.html
Why you shouldn't buy Chinese Hi-Fi products
th-cam.com/video/rvQkJYKYw0o/w-d-xo.html
Is HiFi For Rich People because I can't afford anything: th-cam.com/video/E2pjBAq-VgQ/w-d-xo.html
Hi-Fi Real Talk ! Maximize/evaluate your Speaker's performance in a small room
th-cam.com/video/i1LMzgRWfaI/w-d-xo.html
Hi...
Have you people tryed the Isotek Sigmas?
There’s only one company you need to try: Shunyata. Have you and if so, how do you rate them?
Power Conditioner = Snake Oil
Your Amplifier's power supply convert any AC signal into FLAT "DC" power, then amplifies the music from this DC power.
Your Amplifier does NOT use power in AC form.
That's the basics of Audio Amplification.
So any imperfection gets taken care of in this simple AC to DC conversion step.
Every electronic devices use FLAT DC voltage.
So you absolutely don't need clean AC signal, period. Seriously.
Companies who make these kind of things should be sued for fraud.
Utter waste of money, just like $60,000 speaker cables or $1,000 HDMI cables.
The niagara 7000 situation you saw & could not reproduce elsewhere was probably due to unacceptably crappy wall power.
In such case, get electrician and fix the electric supply lines in the whole house.
Absolutely no reason to get power conditioner, period.
Just a question, were those other tests of power conditioners also made in the same store, with potentialy tens of plugged in devices? Did you try this Niagara gear in your home and did it made as big of a diference there?
@@sbkarajan Thank You for your candor.
I have a new Parasound Halo amplifier, a new Rotel preamp/ processor & Totem Tibe Mini Tower Speaker.
Do you think getting a dedicated line will make an appreciable difference in my overall sound of my system?
I agree, I haven't had any luck with power conditioner or isolation transformers.
Unfortunately, finding the right conditioner is also finding the right power cables. I would have sold my AQ NIAGARA had I kept the Thunder power cord. Some love it, but the Hurricane worked. A friend needed the Firebird. Unfortunately, one must try many cords, and metal surfaces...gold vs silver rhodium vs copper.
Steve, do you have dedicated 15 or 20 amp circuits? or do you share vertical circuits in your apartment building with how many other apt. units? I find power regenerators (PS Audio P12 & P15 Power Plants) does help with sound and imaging making a definite difference in my 1948/1949 built apartment building with the old original wiring and sharing vertical circuits with 5 to 8 other apts. depending on the time of the day.
@@williampearson4968 there’s very little chance you are on “1948” wiring - the insulation would have broken down in the 70’s or 80’s - an oversized medical grade isolation transformer is your friend - a vast majority of “hifi” grade filters are BS or marginally effective at best & yes most are current limiting
@@BogdanWeiss Wiring in my apartment and the other 8 units still has the original 1948 wiring as never replaced. Conduit is in cinder block walls.
I bought the EMI-filter from local electrical shop and Make it to 20 amp. I only use power conditioner for other equipments. I make all cables by myself based on helix structure. Tried more than six versions on each individual cable Finally I feel pretty much satisfied
Years ago I had an electrician run home run to the breaker box with 10awg wire. Spent under $200, best money I’ve spent in a long time on my system.
@@Scottlp2 no- a straight run from the breaker box to the hifi gear
@@NateEll That's exactly what he said.
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room.
I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase).
2 questions.
Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok?
And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc.
I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
Levi Jesse Gonzalez just go off ampacity rating and load. For maximum shielding, use Metal conduit and make sure it's properly grounded.
That was outrageously underpriced - Even if your load center was next your audio equipment. 10gauge (30A cable 10/2 costs approx $1.50 per foot.)
I'm an electrician and an audiophile. A dedicated run for stereo should be at minimum 20 Amps, but even better is to run a 30 amp wire and make it a 20 Amp circuit by installing a 20 Amp Receptacle and 20 Amp breaker. The 30 Amp wire makes for less voltage drop, and more headroom and clarity.
Yep, I've got 2 of them powering my system, the exact same way. Did my research, paid the money.
Roughly how much does this cost
@@jay12345ist Jaylen, I never call for an electrician or a plumber unless I have a lot of work to do that I know I can't do myself. So in this case when I installed the two dedicated 20 amp lines with 20 amp circuits from take 5 audio and 20 amp switches, I had a few other things done as well. Including adding a main surge/brownout breaker on the main electrical panel.
My situation is this, I used to 20 amp circuits one dedicated to my two monoblocks and one dedicated to all of my other components going through a Chang Lightspeed line conditioner. My 20 amp switches are before the receptacles and although I keep my monoblocks on all the time I turn off all my other equipment from the second switch to the Chang Lightspeed. This roughly cost me about $1,000 Canadian for everything.
I now get piece of mind and my amps have no dynamics limit. Or at least that's my theory. Does everything sound better this way, yes it absolutely does but only buy a small bit.
Okay, for those of us who are not electrician's you mean 10ga wire and 20a CB's, right?
Damn
@@blkmacster
Yes
That's what he meant...
10awg to the 20a breaker.
That said, regardless whether its a 20a or even a 15a breaker, upsize the run back to the panel with 10awg.
DO NOT CONSIDER A DEDICATED LINE until you check whether it will be quieter than the other lines in your house! I hired an electrician to install two dedicated lines, one for each of my two systems. I wanted to do this because my household electricity was extremely noisy according to my tester. I tested every circuit in my house plus most outlets. They ALL measured very very high in noise. My electrician had never seen such high readings. He thought a dedicated line would not improve my situation and to test it he installed a facsimile of a dedicated using spare wire. The dedicated line was just as dirty as all the other circuits. He then tested the power coming into the house, it was the source of all the noise. So do not install a dedicated line without doing something to verify that it will actually improve your situation.
The dedicated line as you say will not change the noise coming into your system's power supply. It WILL however prevent other devices (such as LED dimers, appliance motors, etc.) from introducing noise on whatever line you have your system plugged into. And this is usually found on the ground and return legs of the AC power. If it is not a dedicated line it will be sharing AC lines. Grounding loops will be virtually eliminated with a dedicated line ... and these are critical for sensitive circuits, such as those in high gain phono pre-amps. Also, look into having a pair of copper grounding rods installed into the earth outside of the dwelling. Something that is now considered code (required) in many new constructions.
Have your electrician monitor your AC line direct and then compare it to when you have other devices running, such as AC motors (furnace blower), appliances, LED dimmers, or any PCM dimmers. If he didn't ask for you to do that then I would look for another electrician.
After that, then you can consider looking into a power conditioner. The two are not synonymous. They attack different problems through different means.
One of the best things I’ve have done to my audio system was dedicated 20amp breaker with 10awg and on a Hubble hospital grade plug.
Would recommend it to anyone getting into the hobby or anyone that has been an audiophile for years.
Set a good base and build from there !
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room
I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase).
2 questions.
Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok?
And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc.
I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I'm thinking that landing a romex to a dedicated duplex receptacle will work pretty well for you.
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I doubt that there's much of a difference switching from number 12AWG to number 10AWG. Number 10 can get a little hard to work with.
@@levijessegonzalez3629 I know this is a year old post, but if you are running thirsty amps, the 10AWG would be better. If running an AVR, and sources, 12AWG Romex is fine. And like was stated, 10AWG is a bit tougher to work with, especially at the receptacle/outlet. Or, you could homerun a dedicated line/circuit for each amp in your system with the 12AWG, that is what I would do if there is room in your panel. I do all of my own electrical, so it is easy for me to say that.
@@michaelwright1602 well I ended up using 12 guage. I ran 3 dedicated lines.
1 line for my guitar amps and guitar pedals (I record music)
1 line for my PC, audio interface, and different rack mount recording gear.
1 line for my 2 powered studio monitors.
thoughts?
Had a little eczema on my scalp. A power conditioner cleaned it right up.
And you think the election was rigged, and you sent trump money.
@@ramsaybolton9099 You'd think you useful idiots would get tired of being made to look like fools by the msm, can't fix stupid.
@@bactareality Yes YOU can. You’re the only one who can fix stupid.... it starts with fixing YOU.
@RamsayBolton @BactaReality Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
Yeah tried head&shoulders HAIR CONDITIONER...that did not work either 😭😭😭
I gave you a thumbs up on this but you are actually only 40% correct.
The most important thing about a good audio system is the get the Grounding / Earthing correct.
It starts at the power distribution board and must be correct throughout your audio system, as well as the rest of the building!
Regardless of the audio system being on a dedicated line.
Many audiophile tricks such as lifting the wires of the floor are often attempts to fight the Earthing problems that may prevail throughout your audio system and indeed the rest of the building.
In our country one of the biggest problems will often be an corroded electrical water heater element.
These water heater elements need to be checked frequently.
When a good electrician installs the dedicated line, he will also check and correct any Earthing / electrical problems throughout the building.
I bought a 6 outlet furman power conditioner/surge protecter that made a definite difference. the difference may be subjective for everyones taste but I really like it and it cost me $70. Well worth the money.
I had a power conditioner but it was primarily an ACTIVE surge protector. This was worth its weight in gold. My audio system always shutoff seconds before I heard thunder and before the whole house surge protection kicked in. Food for thought!
If you're in a rental property and can't implement his tip here: 6:58, e.g. then a simple alternative is to work out the number of electrical circuit rings in your property and identify if there's one ring that will allow you to remove all devices except your hifi. Even if it's just a temporary removal for one listening session, it's worth doing.
Bad electrical wiring is the main cause. A dedicated circuit is a must. Also whenever possible check existing circuits for faults as problems on one circuit may affect other circuits. All Neutral and ground wires bond together in the service panel. Neutral to ground faults and 2 or more neutrals from seperate circuits mistakenly joined are the most common. Both of these conditions create EMF. Large electrical and magnetic fields are created. Conditioners only help mask the problem but never totally eliminate it and sometimes create other sound quality issues. Test for proper voltage and current on the electrical service coming in from outside. I had a bad main neutral wire in my hydro meter base because of corrosion.
Thanks for your comments
I am trying to determine if a dedicated electrical line to my av system is worth the investment.
I have a new Parasound Halo amplifier, a new Rotel preamp/ processor & Totem Tibe Mini Tower Speakers
Do you think getting a dedicated line will make an appreciable difference in my overall sound of my system? I use Audioquest XLR Cables that run from my amp to my pre/pro
I also use AQ biwire speaker cables
BTW, The circuit breaker box is in my kitchen closet & my av system is in my livingroom.
@@davidstein9129 a dedicated electrical circuit is a way to help prevent other electrical devices from causing interference on that circuit. If possible don't plug anything else into the circuit. Led lights, fluorescent lights, electrical motors, chargers are sources of EMF. Some equipment is more susceptible to EMF caused interference than others. Electric guitars and amps are highly susceptible. 50/60 hertz hum. If you can hear interference try to determine the source. Try turning off all circuits in the breaker panel except for the one your AV equipment is on and listen for a difference. This will help determine if the interference is from an internal source or an exterior source such as hydro wires, hydro transformer.
EMF Center on YT has some good videos explaining EMF, and trouble shooting.
@@solkinar Thank You.
I got it.
But it does make sense to change out the reception from very old/ cheap one to a Hunble hospital grade plug? Is that correct?
I believe that's a DIY easy home project.
Thanks!
@@davidstein9129 I don't know what a hunble plug is. Are you referring to an electrical outlet receptical ? I am assuming an outlet with a built-in emi filter/choke. Some people say filters worked for them and others claim it did nothing and sometimes made things worse. For me filters and chokes did nothing. Dirty electricity is almost always the problem. EMF( electromagnetic field), EMI (electromagnetic interference), RFI (radio frequency interference) are things to check for when trouble shooting. Start with the basics. Try different circuits. Check for ground loops. Unplug unrelated devices. Check for proper and damaged electrical wiring. Check for neutral to ground wire faults. Check for proper grounding. Check for a dropped neutral wire. It took me a while to finally find the source of my problem. I eventually bought a clamp on ammeter to check the current and found I had a dropped neutral in my hydro meter base. I had such a large magnetic field being created I could hear my speakers tweeters buzzing when the stereo was off. I unplugged the stereo and the buzzing was still there. I unhooked the speakers and the buzzing was still there. The magnet in the tweeter was being affected by the EMF generated by the dropped neutral. Musicians and recording studios are very aware of EMF.
@@davidstein9129 I also purchased an EMF meter and could see I had a high EMF level.
Totally agree with the dedicated circuit/line directly from the power box. The other thing that can also make a huge difference is a good earth rod/negative grounding. After doing this I got rid of a lot of hum and buzzing in my systems.
Please explain" Earth rod" haw do you do it. where do you earth to. (See my plea to Jay)
@@johnh539 You drive a metal stake which is at least 8 feet long into the ground next to your house, and then run a wire from that stake to the grounding screw on the outlet you plug your gear or even just the amplifier into. This avoids picking up hum and noise from the many other circuits in your home's breaker panel.
Except it’s dangerous because it bypasses earth ground to the circuit breaker so the breaker won’t protect you in case of a fault at the component. The chassis will be hot and touching it could be fatal.
@@lmff620 I absolutely agree that the earth rod needs to be connected to the main power board earth.
You are correct. It is not a safe way to wire it. With a regular receptacle (not an isolated ground receptacle) the receptacle would theoretically be grounded back to the circuit panel via the mounting strap, but that is only true if the home has metal boxes and all the conduit leading back to the circuit panel is connected securely. Good luck, right? @@lmff620
I use a TrippLite Isobar plug in unit, no cable. For
Excellent thinking. Exactly about 20 yrs ago I had my house remodeled with a dedicated 25A line for my entertainment center. Not really thinking of power conditioning, just enough power to run the system without tripping the breaker, but after listening to you wow that was a great thought, because I was considering a power conditioner. Thx 2 heads are better than one ✌.
This video was very good! I always look for your videos when I have a question or need some trustworthy information. I am also a Master Electrician, retired, but my equipment is not in the right placement...yet. So, no dedicated line...yet. I love the info on the power conditioner and when to get one and which one! Thanks!
I put a dedicated ring for my hi-fi system some 20 years ago, I was refurbing my house just after I purchased it, and I have 4 Triple outlet sockets wired in series. (UK wiring is a RING circuit that runs from the fuse board to socket outlets and back to the same fuse, instead of a Radial circuit that is from the fuse to the last socket) I have no idea if it makes a difference but I am glad I did it as my system is smooth and sweet with great clarity with a controlled and extended base that has good texture, I got this information from reading hi-fi mags over the last 35 years. The only other item that may help your system is to use DC conditioners, DC voltage can be a problem and even on a dedicated supply can exist.
Yup, you're right. I ran a dedicated 20A home run for my Krell KSA 150, KSP&B about 15 years ago and it really did the trick. Fortunately, I'm a mechanical engineer and more than comfortable doing all of my own electrical so mine came at almost no cost as I always have plenty of Romex, outlets ... etc ... on hand. I also found this approach beneficial for my computers as well.
What other makes of outlets do you recommend?
I don't see Romex outlets available online but maybe I missed them somewhere in my search. I did see their wiring for sale.
I'm trying to determine if the cost of highering an electrician to put in a dedicated line will make an appreciable difference in the performance of my av system.
I have recently upgraded my gear. I purchased a used Parasound Halo amplifier, a refurbished Rotel preamp/processor & Totem Acoustic Tribe Mini Tower Speakers.
So, just to confirm, IYO a dedicated line would be a good investment for me at this point?
Thanks So Much,
Dave
You are on the way to become my favour Reviewer, next to Thomas ;-)
Keep up the Heart felt/honest Reviews !
You are so correct I had my electrician install a dedicated line for my home theater system which is 20 amps and I use a battery backup and a Furman 7 outlet power conditioner and the difference is unbelievable!!!
You sound a lot more humble now, not that you were arrogant, but in terms of tone, it feels that way. :P enjoyed your videos so far! Thank you for doing this.
Being grounded is important, for people as well as equipment 🙂
US homes built before 1974 have aluminum wiring and cheap breakers- doesn't move juice as good as modern copper. Insist on 10 AWG wire from the box to your new sockets or you'll get the cheap code 14 AWG. Use premium wall outlet
Great handling of a sensitive topic. What you said all makes sense!
Line level components can benefit from simple power conditioning as they only output a few volts max.
Of course you notice the noise in the quiet passages so millivolts of audio is easily affected by low level noise.
Power amps have high voltage rails and big capacitors which will filter out most noise as long as the line input is clean.
Power amps are more sensitive to current not voltage. Dynamics will suffer if current is restricted.
Surge protector are the big enemy, their very name suggest they restrict current surges.
Another easy solution is just buy high efficiency speakers. Very low current demand!
Also why they are more dynamic sounding!
What is your opinion of the regenerator PS audio P20?
I have very good experience with Naim gear. One thing you should know about Niam is, they need to left on all the time . Every time you switch it off it takes a week to regain its top performance. And, Naim gear absolutely does not work with conditioners and p-regeneration devices. Definitely the sound will alter, but it will take away the PRAT factor Naim gear is know for.
Extremely important to leave on if you can.I had a British intergrated amp that was only turned off maybe less than 10 times in 20 years! That mostly due to a storm or power outage ! The amp died last year unfortunately 😂!
I had a dedicated power line installed. And I listened to my stereo plugged into that for a year. Till I recently tried plugging in my integrated amp directly, instead of via my isotherm isolator, and it sounded absolutely horrendous. Upon taking some measurements I figured that my direct line was the dirtiest and the noisiest line in the whole house. I’m not sure what my electrician did with that direct line, but my stereo sounded a whole lot better when I just plugged into a different shared outlet. This experience and left me more confused than ever.
Does the Niagara 1200 get you some of the benefits of the larger models or is this more similar to cheaper conditioners?
My experience from the 1000 model is very positive. It is very possible that it is a better value for money than the bigger models even if they perform better considering the cost difference.
@@calaf_725lol 😂😂. You’ve no idea what is 7000 capable of.
I agree. I want to be happy with the basic sound quality before i try to enhance it with power conditioners or listening room wall, ceiling & corner bass-trap treatments.
If i sit right up close to my speakers, almost inbetween them & angle them in directly at my ear height, or place them side by side & sit < 1 metre in front of the inward angled pair but find i'm not at all happy with the sound... (like said on this video, i have tried this just to see how my room effects the sound from my normal listening sofa & it deffinately does) ...then i fail to see how listening room accoustic treatments will improve things or power conditioners improve things much if the sound source is not right & unpleasant in the 1'st place from a position where room reflections don't enter into the equation.
There is a widespread total misconception that our equipment sits on the end of wires & recieves electricity as if the mains wiring is recieving power like water from taps when you run a bath or a tap piped from the house's water main & this couldnt be further from the truth. Our equipment effectively sits inbetween the 'live' & the 'neutral' wires of the house's mains wiring & distance from where the electricity comes into the house or the plugs placement along the wiring is 100% irrelevant, unlike water taps who's pressure drops with distance & height from the incoming water main. This means that appliances with half-wave rectifiers like drills, hair dryers, fridges, heating system's motors & a host of other non-hi fi appliances can detrimentally effect the whole house's power by reflecting it's created distortion of the electrical A.C. sine wave back onto our mains line & even from the house next door or houses further along up to a point, all depending on how the local voltage step-down power transformer routing is feeding a number of houses, but you'll only notice it on hi-fi reproduction or mains powered radio or on cheaper TV pictures. Pity they never run an independent spur from the localised power transformers & into each individual house but they never do, they daisy-chain the mains along the houses up to a point of X number of houses before the next localised mains voltage stepdown transformer takes over for houses further along. All that is why (i.m.firm.o.) a dedicated power line just for your equipment, resistance slugged or 1:1 transformer isolated from the rest of your wiring, will help enormously or at least noticeably but definately worth doing for peace of mind, esp' because of half-wave rectifiers in our own house. Non hi-fi appliances put no expense into making sure their rectifiers & motors or active components dont reflect distortion back into the powerline, there's normally nothing beyond a simple supressor to stop your hi-fi or tv or battery radio buzzing away because of active components transmitting EMF radio wavelength noise via air- transmitted noise. There's one bad lawn mower somewhere along the line of the 9 houses that my house sits on, that when i hear it going, it causes my stereo to buzz away like bees inside the speaker, this is not being recieved into my amp through the air... (for many decades, our power & preamps are all protected from recieving & amplifying radio signals & amplify them through our speakers) ...but by that particular bad lawn mower putting a gross distortion back onto it's power line as it sits between the same 'live' & 'neutral' wires that also feed my house & will cause all tv's or hi-fi's connected to the same daisy chained wiring line along the road.
Idealy, we'd run a single power line directly onto the local voltage step-down transformer's secondary from our houses, there's one nearby all house groupings in residential & city areas, even if you havent noticed it, it's usually inside at least a 20 × 20 ft area protected with high steel wired fence & locked gate or simllar around the giant sized voltage step-down transformer inside. Shame it's illegal to do that. We've our local step down transformer diagonally across the footpath in front of my house, & i'd have to tunnel under the footpath like some dude from "The Colditz Story" but 2'nd best is a dedicated power spur isolated from your incoming mains.
Good Jay, this is something I try to help with often. There is a bit more I could add to it.
- Try to have power load on each leg of the panel as even possible
- Dedicated line and circuit breaker for amplifier
- Then have all your other electronics on a circuit that's breaker is connected to the same leg as the amplifier's breaker in panel
- Then to take to the next level, make sure the Panel's grounding wire is Thermowelded to the grounding rods. Also, make sure the grounding rods are to code, proper distance apart, depth...etc.
Great video Jay. You can thank whoever gave you that sage advice to install a dedicated power line.
I was fortunate to move into a house for many years now whose owner had rented out one room and installed a separate line entirely. So the whole room has its own meter that is billed separately. I only bought a 1000W AVR and that's it. System is always dead quiet. No substitute for it.
$179 CAD for each dedicated 20A line when building my house. Recently also added a PS Audio P20. Just love the improvement that the P20 brings.
@Homesteader Workouts Some people buy expensive watches/jewelry some people buy expensive blocks of aluminium lol. To each their own I guess.
@@TheEchelon Yes, you do guess. I guess some people get off on trying to be smart.
Except for the fact that the P20 does nothing relevant whatsoever.
@@susokraut How did you have it setup? Maybe you overlooked something.
@@AT-wl9yq I did not set it up as I don't own it and would never spend my money on some completely unnecessary piece of gear. I does nothing of worth and any audio device leads via filters with the input AC easily. That was being measured with the P5.
Before installing a new line, try to figure out what else is sharing the line/circuit and unplug/move them or turn them off while you're listening to your stereo. Also, all appliances in your kitchen shouldn't be a problem as all electrical lines/circuits in the kitchen (except for lighting) are not shared with anything else in the house (electrical code requirement).
I would hear occasional hissing through my headphones late at night. I discovered that is was the fridge kicking in and out, even though the fridge was not on that line. Power conditioners on the front end solved that issue. Everyone’s experiences may be different.
@@ramsaybolton9099 My last house had the same issue, the fridge thermostat kicking in caused a click through the amp. Very frustrating. In my new house there are also random clicks heard through the amp and I don't know what it is. Even more frustrating
Totally agree, i have the Niagara 1000 and the difference is huge.
It all depend of two factors if it is working or not .
1 - If your equipment have well made filters in the power supply then
mostly you will not experience any noticable difference .
2 - If your power supply line in the house / appartment is relative noise free
( no heavy industry close to your main line ) then again you will not notice anything .
It is very much equipment and source power quality dependent .
Where I live the power lines are extremely bad and filled with lots of spikes and noise .
A real nightmare to eliminate this in my little home studio / HighEnd equipment .
My personal problem number one is this noise combined with NO grounding at all .
I have set up ground and grounded my equipment myself and it helped a lot .
I have two computers connected to my studio .
One laptop that suffered so much from the main power lines noise and spikes that
I ended up using an isolation transformer and filter .
It worked but it have a professional USB external soundcard where ground is
not same potential as the other equipments ground level so I had to level this
out by using a ground ' lifter ' and it worked gone was noise .
My big computer on the other hand really doesn't care about the noise and spikes
because the filters in the power supply simply phase this out very effectively .
My two Eq's I use for recording they have almost no filter and suffered too so
my solution was to change the filter in the powersupplies and that did the trick .
My 3 power amplifiers they also doesn't care at all , because the filters simply
just works so effective .
Now my biggest problem ended up being my second Firewire Professional
soundcard / ADC - DAC it have same ground level problem as the other one .
Simply connect the ground to the main ground loop will make everything noisy .
Solution was to connect the ground in paralell with the USB soundcard / ADC - DAC .
They ended up on same ground level and gone was noise when connected back
to the main ground loop , but it requires a seperate cable from the ADC -DAC to
the ground connection on the amp and down to the chassic on the main computer .
( keep in mind I use a ground lifter on the UBS sound card / ADC -DAC and the
lifted ground is routed with the cable )
Yes that solution works just nice ( sometimes it defy any logic )
I also have a big Tube / valve Guitar Amplifier and when record / play on that I have
to wire up a seperate ground cable and connect it to the computers ground .
Result , totally silence .
My only remaining problem is a Guitar effects pedal that was as good as
impossible to lift to correct ground potential / level .
result - when I touch the strings and at same time have my feet on the floor
it make a terrible noise .
But I kind of solved it by simply use thick socks .
When I wear those thick socks there is no noise sound from the pedal .
( sometimes the obscure tricks seems to work just fine )
Also a thing as a simple cable can pick up noise as hell .
My guitar cable if I just toss it on the floor in front of the computer will
pick up extreme amount of noise ( yes it is a HQ shielded cable ) but
if I move it just 10 cm away it be gone .
All cables in the system is carefully routed around and away from potential
noise sources .
This is a real trial and error thing to do because sometimes it doesn't comply
with any logic for where to put them .
Even my big computer screen suddenly suffered from shadows in the picture .
Well the signal /VGA cable run beside the power cable to my 18 inch Powered
subwoofer and by moving it a little away then picture was perfect .
Funny enough the subwoofer was totally unaffected by the Screen / VGA cable .
( No noise there and it's 5000 W Amplifier remain silent )
Getting rid of power line Noise and ground noise and such can really be a pain
in the A............ s .
We all use different equipment and different cables ans setups ect ect , and
what is working for one may not work for another person .
This is the strange world of HiFi - HighEnd - Music Studio - Musician - ect ,
headache in a nutshell .
There is so many strange solutions to all kinds of troubles some work for me
but wont work for you .
It all depend of individual situations and equipment and power lines , ground
cables , placement ect ect ect .
Very good video and a good explanation , I can only agree on your thoughts as
seen from your perspective with your setup and equipment ect .
I am shure it can help some fellow entusiasts out there .
Keep it up : )
Ps - USB power conditioners can be very effective if your Pc / ADC -DAC is too noisey .
I used some years ago a PCI card power conditioner to remove PCI bus noise .
YES it worked in my old setup but not my new .
Also when thinking on buying a power line power conditioner , Try see if possible
to try it out before final buying .
This way you can try several solutions and find one that work for you .
The Idear about getting a seperate Electric line / dedicated line Is what most studios
actually doing to get isolated from the rest of the lines .
This work very effectively .
( still you can get noise from outside , factories , heavy industry , bad main lines
neighbours noisy equipment , motors ect ect )
Last and very important - Remember to get a seperate ground too for your new line .
Edit - sorry for my eventually typos , im in my coffe right now : )
Even Paul McGowan says, unless you spend a huge amount of money on a proper power regenerator bypass all power conditioners and plug directly into a dedicated line. You can also add a surge protector in your main panel quite easily.
I'm currently Wiring up my studio / playback room
I have 3 outlets in the studio room, I decided to "Homerun" each of these directly to the breaker box (on the same phase).
2 questions.
Is 10awg wire truly better than 12awg (20a) and is Romex ok?
And is it best to hook only a *Single* Receptacle up to each line? Or will it make no difference to make each of the 3 outlets with Double Receptacles? This would help me plug into all my gear without having to mess with power strips etc.
I'm using spec grade solid brass Receptacles btw. Any other suggestions?
@@levijessegonzalez3629 You will not see any improvement in transmission (unless your lines are ridiculously long) from 12 to 10AWG. The extra thickness in gauge only makes the 'pipe' bigger in the same way a larger hose can transmit more water, but it can only transmit the amount of flow available not increase it. Romex is fine for AC and is what you should be using. There is zero difference doubling up your receptacles but, there certainly can be a difference using power strips depending on their build.
I had problems with the line as my source would glitch for just a sec with fridge coming on. I changed the receptacle itself first this all cleared up. Good recetacles are tighter and connection is better. $3.99 fixed. Start there. I'm an electrcian/technician. so I recommend that you get help if you are not sure how to do this. Then you may want to add a cct dedicated for your audio..If you need more than i cct install a split plug which will give you double the power and can be installed for the very little extra cost.
Hi Jay thanks for the review I think your point is well taken don't go crazy on a power conditioner until you have the other components first.
My dealer is a Naim, Vinnie Rossi, Lyngdorf, Rega, Clearaudio, Innuos, Chord and NAD dealer for electronics. For cables and electronic accessories he's a firm believer in Audience. I have a new Naim Nait XS3 Integrated Amplifier. Bluesound Node 2i Streamer, an old Kenwood (1990) CD Player and Project DC TT. My dealer promotes the Audience Forte V8, a very basic power conditioner. He specifically does not believe in surge protection "let the internals of the unit do their job." Anyway. after watching your video about a year ago for budget reasons I took my chances with the little round $99 white ifi power conditioner plugged into a straight power strip no surge protection. I should also point out I am not running on a dedicated line. The TV and cable equipment are plugged into the same circuit 6 feet away. It's difficult for one person to do A/B comparisons so I go with my first impression. My first impression after the ifi was I could tell no difference.
Four months after purchasing the Naim and Bluesound I had squirreled up the $900 for the Audience Forte V8. No way I was telling the wife "I spent $900 on a power strip!!!" Currently Audience is throwing in the power cord which is a $150 savings. I plugged the Forte V8 into the wall, the ifi into the other socket in the wall so theoretically I am getting some surge protection? Who knows? The Amplifier into the first socket, Bluesound into the second socket etc. there are 8 sockets and sat down on the couch to listen.
I started with the Streamer. I was startled by how much improvement there was in clarity and and overall sound quality as a first impression. I was sure it was better. I won't say this specific or that specific part of the sound was better I really don't know? 20 minutes later my wife came home from work. She thinks a "Bose Wave Radio" sounds great it does make my audiophile pursuit life difficult. It was nuclear war to get the two new pieces over my 37 year old Denon PMA 750 since it still worked. My speakers are Martin Logan Motion 15's, next stop new speakers (my wife wants to go back to the little Bose cubes put a spike through my head. "They were fine until you went into that stereo store...") But I digress. She comes home, "is that the 'Stream' she calls it you are listening too?" (we are 62 and 58) "Yes, it sounds really good today doesn't it?" "I've never heard it sound that good." I didn't say a word.
Fantastic breakdown of a tough topic to tackle! 💥💥
I recently took mine out of the system. I was amazed at how much dynamics improved, as well as bass response without it in the system. They must seriously “choke” the current.
I connect my power amp from wall plug through line filter made by myself but keep DAC and preamp with power conditioner
SNAKE OIL is what your selling buddy.
I'm unsurprised to read your nonsense.
What does "choke" the current mean?
i can understand your experience.
Though, i'd have to surmise, you've come to a conclusion too quickly.
Maybe just the conditioner you used wasn't up to the task? Replacing it with a quality unit you *might* have a totally different experience.
i had a sub hooked up to a conditioner made for computer equipment for years because of the protection it offered. i read somewhere computer conditioners are terrible for audio equipment. I figured, well, let's test out the theory. I took the sub out of the conditioner, put it in the wall... and BAM! huge, huge improvement... couldn't believe i'd kinda wasted my subwoofer performance for so many years. however, i surmise that was just because it was the wrong type of conditioner.
i'm now looking to add something better since i dont like the sub unprotected. So, i'll be trying a few.
Valid points Jay! I use a UPS from General Electric (VH Series) You can set the frequency and voltage and it generates this nice sine from batteries, I have used it on a JBL S7150 power amp and it was not limited in power.
Even with a dedicated line, you get what the power company sends or doesn't send, seems one at least need a surge protector.
During the day my sound system sounds like it wants to distort the sound while during the night it sounds so much better and this is something that I've learnt along as time goes on. This happens on a DENON AVR-3808 straight to the wall AC outlet without a power conditioner or line filter. My thoughts for a dedicated electrical AC outlet? Before I'd to anything like that I'd be checking with an oscilloscope, before the circuit breaker board (basically straight off the meter) and thereafter the circuit board to see the difference and also when appliances are running together just to see if the oscillation frequency changes. Then you can decide on what's best for you, what works for you because every system is so different👍
I finally ran a dedicated 20 amp line with aluminum armoured (for shielding) 10/2 copper solid core cable to a Furutech outlet in which I plugged in my integrated and an active sub. The dynamics improved even though I was still running the TV and all the audio sources off a cheap Monster surge protector plugged to a regular separate outlet. Recently purchased a Furman PST-8D to replace the old Monster.
TV picture seems cleaner but digital audio sounds..well, way more digital as in shrill. My records on the other hand never sounded better. Bummed yet pleased? I'm hoping a break in period will smooth things out.... Or get a divorce and get what I've always wanted, a Bryston Bit 20. Initially made by Torrus, Bryston bought the company because it does exactly what it says it does: your own isolated clean power transformer in your living room with built in protection and faster access to massive power swings for unrestricted dynamics! As you might suspect, the club membership is prohibitive.
Agreed on conditioners. I use the Niagara 5000, Hurricane power cord. The power cord is very important with these. The Thunder was too warm and fat sounding to my ears, in my system. The Hurricane fit the bill. Matching is exhausting, but wall outlets, cable choices all affect conditioner success.
The rest of my cables I make myself using rhodium ends.
My apartment has a dedicated 240V outlet which I use.
I agree with a dedicated 12awg or 10awg running rom the power box to your hifi area in your house and also a good wall plug. I wouldn’t go for a 20A breaker, even though the 10-12 mains would handle it, as the components are probably rated to 15A max internals and if a problem should occur the 20A breaker would allow 20A to reach them. And just to specify, by code in Québec at least, a refrigerator, a niche microwave, countertop outlets, a built in dishwasher are all required to be on a dedicated circuit with no other outlets chained to them.
The most promising looking power regenerator I have seen is the PS Audio Stellar Power Plant 3, comes with a free shipping 30 day risk free trial. And in some of their TH-cam videos Paul acually explains how it works so you can figure out if you actually need one.
I was super skeptical about regenerators but tried a PS Stellar regenerator and ended up keeping it. Not a huge difference but noticeable enough that I didn’t want to send it back.
@@CaptainCrunch823 agreed. i have two PS audio regenerators - the stellar 3 for my low-power equipment (dac, &c.), and an older perfectwave powerplant 10.
I have a dedicated 20A line and PSA P20 regenerator. Although the line is dedicated, the built-in oscilloscope on the P20 clearly shows the difference between the input and output voltage and the amount of garbage that is in the voltage. P20 is the foundation of my system.
I have two 20A dedicated lines, one supposedly for amp and ended not using it since got the P20.👍 Still sound better with ALL into it despite comparison vs amp direct, also with P10 on that separate line! Considering a second P20 now.. Shunyata Sigma HC/XC pc works best for me, hope to try out their new Omega XC soon.
Please explain why a dedicated circuit is proven to sound better. Just because it goes strait to the panel doesn't mean its immune from noise. In fact it is directly connected to every circuit on that buss bar. Remember X-10? Breakers do not filter or isolate from noise. Measuring voltage under load will tell you its properly installed and not overloaded.
Right. Seems is the voltage control and lack of additional load on the skinny 15 amp wires that you are trying to fix. With dedicated circuit you dont share the load with other items on the line.
He can't, it's just audiophile bs. The disclaimer line "if you're here for technical explanation the. Click off" is simply and out he can use to say "I can't explain or measure it but I hear a difference" no Jay you don't, at least not in reality. You might think you do because you just paid how ever much for this line to be run but it does nothing. I would be happy to put a scope on a power line to show you the noise then scope the output of your Naim amp's power supply to show you that Naim filters out all of that, if it didn't their incredibly expensive amps would sound like shit.
@@mikejulian8662 now if I could find an old abandoned movie theatre so I can harvest the alnico magnet speakers from I will be set.
@@russellmartin2705 going to be lots of new abandoned movie theaters coming up here haha
If you understand the basics of electricity and how apartments, condos and single family homes are wired, it's very simple to figure out. A direct line to the audio equipment compared to a line that is piggy baked with numerous light switches and plugs wired in series really doesn't need any explanation. If one switch or plug fails, loose connections or a loose wire nut etc will effect your stereo. It's as simple as that.
Very very true! Most homes have atleast 5 outlets on one breaker...many extra feet of wire as well. Jumping from one fixture to the next. Not much left to play with...when we start plugin our our hobby!
My thought is that the power line as been through thousands of houses before it gets to your house and its a known fact that it is heavily polluted when you receive it. I can see a dedicated line would stop any interference from your house going on the line but its like trying to close the stable door when the horse as already bolted. A dedicated line from the Power station now I could see great value in that. Any thoughts
A sine wave battery backup will condition the power. These are used in data centers to ensure the power to a server is clean for sensitive equipment. It also protects from surges and adjacent noise from other electrical equipment.
Isolated ground outlets maybe necessary if there is feedback for highly sensitive equipment. For the video, I am assuming the electrician installed an isolated ground outlet and bonded in the panel then drive an additional copper rod into the earth a far distance from the other grounds, plumbing, and gas lines.
great video - i had my electrician install dedicated 20a circuits throughout my entire showroom for this exact reason
When we built our house I had a shielded dedicated line put in. I finally got to use it with my audiophile power distributor via a heavy duty shielded power cable. Good tip, Jay. Interesting to hear your experience with the Naim. I made the exact opposite experience since I went from an untreated system next to RF transmitters (WLAN routers) to using the dedicated power sockets and RF shielding on all power cables. Wow! Blacker background, deeper bass, more detail, energetic highs. it started sounding like the $25000 system it would be if I had to replace everything today. All the best, Rob in Switzerland
How to get dedicated shielded installed ? Thanks
@@babagandu It was part of our design for the house as we specified it. If you wanted to do this after the house is built, you would probably need to get an electrician to make a dedicated power outlet socket near your hifi and feed it from the main connection to the house with shielded cable. I hope this was helpful. Alll the best, Rob
Years ago, I tried a Chang Lightspeed Power Conditioner briefly and haven't used any since. I plug my amplifiers directly into the wall outlet and think they work well. I did change my wall outlets to a commercial grade 20A so they're a little more rugged.
I had the AudioQuest passive shunts in my system before. They worked. So did the PS Audio Powerplant Premiere. I am finding out that grounding can have significant SQ gains.
OK, a non-technical question. On your last video regarding the 300B integrated amp; Where did the intro music come from? I went back and listened, then, picked up my left-handed Strat and spent about 45 minutes building upon those Notes. Had a blast, Thanks.
When I was having my theater built, I had 2 20amp lines run to a pony panel - really made a difference in the quality of the sound and less wear on components.
Less wear? How would you even detect wear on electronics? Usually time is what gets to the caps.
Marcus - I would suspect that poor fluctuating voltage would have an adverse impact on caps?
Should the dedicated line have increased voltage, like 220 or 240 volts?
Well, higher voltage provides twice the power (W) with the same gauge wire and circuit breaker. 120V x 10A = 1200W. Hifi gear doesn't need all that much power for a living room. -In Finland we have 230V and it's regulated to be stable. But a UPS device can save a computer from a lightning strike.
There must be something wrong with my supply and the box because a dedicated line did nothing to improve my system. The DAC still looses its signal when a certain light switch is turned off which I thought a dedicated line would fix. It’s frustrating and so I’m looking to a power conditioner now to see if that works.
Good video. So what I expect the conditioner to do is eliminate the AC noise. What I have in my system is a 20 amp regulatior. This is the foundation of my system. My noise floor is bottomless pit quiet. As for sound improvement I'm sure its there inherently, but I don't this the issue is so much as what you hear as what you don't hear.
I get sub popping randomly when my system is 100% shut off but my Definitive technology tower are plugged in the wall. i was thinking of buying different things to try. what do you think i should try?
LANTRO JS - CW4EL2-30A-S Power EMI Filter, 115V/250V 50/60Hz Single-phase Power EMI Filter Power Supply Filter
Greenwave Broadband EMI Dirty Electricity Meter
Tripp Lite 1000VA Smart UPS Battery Back Up, 500W Tower, 8 Outlets, LCD Display, AVR, USB, Tel / DSL / Coax Protection
uxcell 22mm x 14mm x 8mm Power Transformer Ferrite Toroid Cores Green 10 Pcs
Having a clean AC is absolutely vital for power amp as the operate in Analogue domain.
Jay you hit the main point with most power conditioners, they are current limiting.
If one is serious about getting the cleanest power supply, forget about expensive power regeneration devices and just go powering from a DC power. With proper design this will provide all the current a highend audio system will ever need and is completely decoupled from the grid and the associated noise and interference.
Let's discuss a solution that takes your idea of dedicated line to the next level and having your own power source.
I run my system using AC supplied by two AC inverters. A 3000w sustained and 5000w peak Pure Sine wave inverter runs the power to the analogue amplifiers. Then a 1000w Pure Sine Wave inverter supplies power to all the digital components.
The DC power for these inverters are drawn from a bank a 16x 120Ah LFP batteries, each capable of outputing over 200A. They are connected in parallel to support over 3200A current draw.
The 16x LFP are organised in a 4x4 matrix. Providing 4 banks of batteries, with each bank consisting of 4x LFP connected in parallel with a custom 500A flexible busbars. 4x of these battery banks joins together at the Victron Lynx 1000A busbar system to power the inverters.
The LFP batteries are kept charged using solar.
6x Victron SmartSolar 100/50 controllers are connected to 16x Sunpower Maxeon 3 400w panels to collect the solar energy during daytime.
As you can see see, this solution provides practically unlimited amounts of current that any audio system would ever require. And the solution is totally green and sustainable. The big plus is, there is absolute zero snake oil component in this solution because we know that it absolutely works! The science speaks for itself 😊🌞🌞🌞
_"If one is serious about getting the cleanest power supply, forget about expensive power regeneration devices and just go powering from a DC power. With proper design this will provide all the current a highend audio system will ever need and is completely decoupled from the grid and the associated noise and interference."_
And so is the power supply in every device you own.
So what do you plug everything into? A power strip?
As posted on your recent video on tweaks. I also have not had much luck with power conditioners. They have their place. However, I concur. The greatest improvement to my system has been dedicated 20 amp circuits where the electrician paid considerable attention to eliminating ground loop hum.. He owned VTL Wotan's and knew exactly what I needed for my Amps. I found that to be far more effective than either power conditioners or insanely priced, after market power cords.
I can only comment on my personal experience. I have four tube guitar amplifiers that I will have on at the same time with a signal splitter switching between them. I was getting a terrible hum which I suspected was a ground hum. After I plugged all the amps into a furman pl c plus the hum was gone
I have always installed a dedicated circuit ground it properly and install it from it's own consumer unit .Nothing else gets plugged into this circuit.
My new music room a separate building will also benefit from a ballanced mains unit on that circuit installed next to the consumer unit .
Thoughts on Richard Grey products??
Hey Jay - you said that with power conditioners, "you get what you pay for" and then you said that the rate of diminishing returns was very high for them. Aren't those two statements in conflict? To me, "getting what you pay for" would seem to indicate a linear relationship between money spent and what you get, as opposed to the diminishing returns model. Thanks!
Well I hope you understood what I mean.
I meant more money usually dictates more for power conditioners. Not a linear line relationship. Excuse my poor statement
Sweet. Thanks for the response!
My Costco power conditioner may save my TV from exploding but it seems to make my stereo more fatiguing. However my system can sound different from day to day. Sometimes wonder if it’s in my head.
No, probably not in your head . I suspect the weather and time of day. Due to air density and humidity. Humidity will impact density.
Another interesting one is the difference in sound caused by moving from Western Australia to Texas. Nup, not a joke . It's to do with construction methods used.
This is a great topic. In my experience, power conditioners helped some of my equipment, other equipment, not noticeable. A lot of the gain of "performance/sound quality" depends on the quality of the power feed to your home. The worse it is, the more noticeable will be the improvement from the power conditioner. Some power service areas have very good steady sinusoidal AC voltage, others can be awful. If you are getting "gritty" power fed to your home, you usually won't notice it on appliances, but it can reek havoc of stereo equipment. Also, you may have ineffective grounding at your home, or at least ground loop problems inherent in your home. Power conditioners solved two problems I was having. First, on a high current high power amp (i.e. 400wpc, 4ohm, 10hz to 30khz band width). The amp does not have a soft/delayed start, so when you power up, when connected to high efficiency speakers, you get a hard pop. Similarly, powering down causes a hard pop. A great sounding older amp that I almost parted with until I ran it through a switched feature on a power conditioner. Power on still had some pop, but much less and the power down pop was completely eliminated. This was really awesome. Another problem I was having was RF hum between some components. Improving the quality of rca connectors did help some with shielding, but did not satisfactorily reduce it. Connecting components to the power conditioner removed the hum. Very quiet ground floor. Additionally, since I always run the equipment through surge protection anyway, the power conditioners provide a nice central hub to connect a lot of gear. For me, they have been great and each of them were purchased under $1k. It would seem that unless you are running extremely high power amplification, going to a 5 or 10k+ power conditioner isn't likely to be a good return on investment.
I concur...People give their opinions and do what they want, yet i tend to listen to people who work on LIVE concerts and huge clubs with monster systems, lime the Paradise Garage, Studio 54, Zanzibar, Ministry of Sound, etc..If you do not take care of the current coming into your system,it's all moot...
Hi there, what level power conditioner worked for you? The symptoms you described are exactly the sort of things I am experiencing at the moment.
I enjoyed reading your post. I live in a highrise building. I also have a high voltage power station 2 blocks away.
I use an Audioquest Power2 surge suppressor for my amps & av sources.
I have not had any audible noise thus far.
It seems like a Dedicated electricity line would make sense given my situation.
I am skeptical about
Power conditioners, although I like Audioquest products & use their cables in my av system.
Given what I said, do you have any advice?
Thanks!
@@michaels5166
Hi Michael, I have a question for you Michael.
I, like you, tend to listen to av professionals more than casual hobbyists.
I live in a 45 year old highrise building.
I purchased some used fairly high-end audio gear...a dedicated Parasound Halo amplifier, a Rotel pre/pro...Audioquest XLR (balanced) cables for my amp, pre!/pro & OPPO Blu-ray & DAC.
I also use an Audioquest surge protector.
It seems like an unnecessary expense to have a dedicated powerline for my gear.
Any thoughts about this??
Thanks,
Dave
Thanknyoy for this. Do you mind listing what other products you used that had the less desirable effects and/or no noticeable change from plugging into a wall?
Jay, in your talk you emphasized a dedicated line for the amplifier. Well you've peeked my curiosity. What if you have monoblocks? Should there be 2 dedicated lines, one for each amp? And what about preamp, DAC, source? Should there be dedicated lines for each of these also? I'm asking out of ignorance. Or should there just be a set of outlets (5-10) that are dedicated through one line to only be used for one's audio equipment?
The latter. If you have monoblocks and plug each one to each separate dedicated lines - it can cause ground noise issues
@@Jayiyagi Great, so one dedicated line just for audio equipment that may have a number of outlets arising from that one dedicated line. But don't go overboard with the outlets (obviously, I added the last part). (:
The grounds are bussed together at the panel along with the neutrals. Yes you will have the resistance of romex back to the panel. Romex has a resistance of 2.5 ohms per 1000 feet, if your run was more than 250ft I would be shocked thats half an ohm between the grounds, that's a non factor. It will make no difference once so ever if they are on the same or different circuits. You can test this with a volt meter if you want if you have long enough leads to reach the ground lug of 2 different circuits.
A dedicated line coming from what source ? Coming from the global circuit breaker ? Or .... ?
Because there's a single electrical meter coming from the main supply in the city network, not two ..... So i don't understand.
In any case, all lines will share the one electrical meter ....
@Jay's iyagi is that a Dali Epicon on your right in the background!? Can't wait for u to review it!
This is the most informative video on the subject on TH-cam.
Is there a review coming up for those lovely bookshelves behind you ? Look fwd to it.
I have PS20, great security and noticible sound performance, i use it with MC1.25 mono-blocks and no limitations in sound... i did HomBridge plugin (for Apple Home integration) for it that start the equipment before i get back to home (heat it up)
ohh.. to be strict i have dedicated power line for it too :)
In my opinion that a catered line will make a 0 difference with noise. They are all connected to the same line coming into your house so you will still get the noise from everything in your house and also noise from your neighbors house If connected to the same transformer
This in essence is true, but is does make a difference how close you are to the noise source. I have noticed DC / transformer hum problems with dimmers in one floor, which I did not have an another floor in the house. So yes a dedicated group can still have a positive impact, but will not remove all noise.
I had a dedicated line installed by a professional electrician and I still experiencing interference with buzzing or humming when the microwave or the washer and dryer are being used what else can I do???
What abt surge protectors or Online UPS? In South east Asia we get a lot of outages as well as voltage fluctuations that could blow the amps or speakers!
did you try battery solution?
the big power packs? theoretically a big one will make a huge difference
hi, i want to know what you think about ps audio power plant p5 or p12 ?
Great info! I wonder if a DC system could help with powering an amp. In theory, if you build up sotred energy in a battery, it should put out power at a certain voltage and thus give you peak performance. Using a Blueti power box with AC outlets...? Just curious.
Hi Jay, I see a Dali in the back.. What do you think of these?
Can i plug an Audioquest Niagara 3000 to a 1000w or 2000w Stavol Matsunaga AVR ? (reason being, power fluctuation is bad here where I live). Will it be bad for my power amplifier if i do this? (Primaluna EVO400 tube poweramp)
Would you say the entry level Niagara 1200 is also effective? Or just the higher level Niagara’s?
Hi Jay. When you talk about a dedicated line do they actually run another power line from the street or is it all done in the fuse box from just the one cable coming from the street power line?
Hello, what do you think about the PS Audio Power Plant equipment? Are they really worth?
At the moment I'm looking forward to this or a Niagara from Audioquest to supply current to my equipment.
I wonder if in the Naim - Niagara 7000 experiment, whether there was external interfernence on the line at the time? I find it risky to base a recommendation on a sample of one, rather than a relationship which has been widely repeated over many years over many product combinations. Or else it could be that multiple small benefits to the source equipment outweighed the negative impact on the power amp. An acquaintnace mine just informed his Luxman amp greatly improved at my recommendation to remove his Luxman from the Niagara 1200 and plug it straight into the wall instead.
im just on with installing my dedicated lines.im going to fit at least 5 one for each appliance.run them back to a new electric board.then the sparky will take over. are you aware of any low noise breakers to be used actually inside the fuse box? cheers
Actual technical testing indicates that power conditioners make no difference. Makes one wonder about the value of audio reviewers evaluations in general, for those who claim to hear a difference with power conditioners.
No need to wonder about anything. You try it yourself and if you don’t hear a difference or do - that’s just that.
Lots of good return policies in 2022
Indeed. None of them affect/filter the power in the audible freqs. Most of the time you are paying $$$ for 'power duplicators'. You get the same electrical signal the other side.
Did you try Puritan conditioners? I was thinking of trying them (ps106-dc) for DC hum on my power transformers, which is especially noticeable in a desktop setup. Apparently they are very well received by a lot of audiophile reviewers, including 6 moons and the Audiophile Guy. Not a typical marketed brand and seems to be a very honest guy/owner.
GREAT show Jay!
Straight shootin and directed right at folks like me...
Very well done, don't ever change, please carry on!!
Ok, dedicated line, but you still could have to plug in 6-8 other units, so what is your suggestion/recommendation for that part?
Two dedicated 10awg lines and two hospital grade 4 plugs receptacles. 👍
Great tip bud!! Back 40 years ago, we would say that to our "audiophile clients". Also, here's another tip, do a listening session on jazz, classical, something not too hard and loud, and also records you know well. Try a session at 5 pm, and same session at 10 pm...sounds different. Why? At 5 pm EVERYONE IS HOME using the computer, dishwasher, stove, fridge is open like it's an air conditioner...all these factors affect the noise level in your line. I remember a client had some medical grade power transformer (how he got it...no clue!) but this thing was the size of a small bar fridge!!!! LMAO, it also ran on 240v....but he had McIntosh gear from A to Z. On Electro-voice Patricians!!! Wow. Simply...Wow!!! when money isn't a problem...LOL Cheers and great vid!
So the AQ Niagara’s perform equal if not better than the PSA Power Plants?
I have a Belkin Pure AV power cleaner. I found it reduced white noise heard from my speakers by about half. Worth it to me for $350. I heard no detriment to the sound quality.
With a dedicated circuit (I'll be installing a dedicated 20A line for my system when I start putting it together), would you recommend having ONLY the amplifier connected to it, or can it safely share the circuit with the other components (receiver, game consoles, projector, etc.) without having sound negatively affected?
In my experience, using one dedicated line to a UPS that runs my AVR, TV, game console, and internet router has been perfectly fine.
@@JPSurratt1986 That's what my plan ended up being once I double checked the specs on my Krell KAV-1500. It'll get its own dedicated 20A circuit and the rest of the components will be on an AVR that'll also have its own 20A circuit.
Thanks Jay. I do have a dedicated 20 amp circuit since last October. But I always had my PS Audio power conditioner to my amp. I removed it from my amp and used it for upstream components after watching this video. And my soundstage depth doubled! And I have been lowering my volume like 3 times in 3 hours. I guess the previously un-used dynamic headroom alone sufficiently explains that phenomenon. Probably cleaner power to the upstream helps too. Everything sounds so good and dynamic even when I am doing laundry LOL.
To PS Audio credit, after all these years I only notice today that the 'zones' actually have one labelled 'Amplifier' (RTFM moment), presumably by-passing the choke. Anyway, no urge to trying that option any time soon. And seeing someone saying good thing about PS PC below, I should add that mine is the early gen entry level PC, not the fancy re-generator.