Alpha Labs - Influence of Power Supplies on music streamers
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2023
- We wanted to show you the influence of a power supply on the analog output of a music streamer. We show you real time measurements of the noise levels. No tricks...!
If you find these kind of video's interesting: let us know... we love to share more video's like these.
More information: alpha-audio.net.
Support our work on Patreon! / alphaaudio - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
As a former Technical Officer in broadcast transmission I can really appreciate your matter of fact approach to your videos and explanations of what you're doing. Please keep up the good work.
Thank you!
Interesting information here. With all the different streamers out there and upgraded power supply options. To see the impact of an improved power supply is cool. Appreciate your work here.
Thanks!
But can you hear the difference. I bet if I changed the power supplies blind you would not hear any change. Try it, I have.
@@r423sdex We have done dozens of tests like that. Check our last live-stream with streamers around 1000 Euro. We did change the PSU... you don't need to do it blind... it's really obvious. You are invited in our listening room. I will do it blind.
Hi! Very nice to see someone finally doing these measurements. I think if you do this with some different phonechargers that a lot of people use with the Wiim's, like Apple and Samsung versions your channel will explode. Thanks!
Thanks for the video. Any of us who have played with different power supplies to streamers know that they sound different. Even top end streamers such as the Innuos Statement can get better with attention to the power supply such as when Innuos upgraded to their NextGen power supply.
Thank you! Another top test.
Thanks for another cool Video. I have a SoTM SMS-200 Neo Streamer and got nice sonic improvements using it with a Sbooster power supply. I also have one for my Qutest with similar sonic improvements. I have recently bought another piece of equipment after seeing another one of your videos. At the weekend I bought a Naim XS2 Amplifier and I am really happy with it 😊 A massive improvement over my previous Roksan Kandy K3's . I had a pair of them in vertical Biamp set up. One Amp per channel. (2x140w) A single Naim XS2 70w blows them out the water!! Its not even close
Nice work, Thank you 😎👍
GM ☕️..yes I’m all over audiophile TH-cam 😎
I put an IFI power supply onto my Topping E50 DAC ( as many audiophile TH-camrs recommend) and it did make a difference in the DAC …but my Wiim Pro ( not the latest version) is something I’ve been thinking about…now that’s feeding optically to the DAC …something tells me it’s not a bad idea for a little cash outlay .
Very excellent and informative
Thanks!
I loved this! Please more insights into the lab!
I think the difference between power supplies is even more pronounced on lower end device. When I switched the Raspberry Pi I use as a streaming bridge from the stock supply to an ifi iPower X the difference was immediately audible. It had a substantially greater influence than powering the DAC with iPower X.
True!
Nice video. I changed the power supply of my DAC from a standard switch mode to a linear. Made quite a big difference in sound stage and detail.
Yes it does!
Get a better DAC. The noise floor on my dac is insanely low just plugged into the mains. They call this well engineered.
@@r423sdex let's not turn this into a DAC measuring contest.
Bedankt Jaap voor je informatie, wist niet dat het zo groot zou zijn.
Het verschil is significant.
I like the Lab video's! tnx for sharing
Sehr, sehr interessant. Danke.
Welcome!
your the best thank you
ifi has been making power supplies and such for awhile and volumio is new to the game so it shows here
Yeah. Definately.
Love your videos. Can you please do such a test with the digital output - especially I2S?
It's practically the same result...
Very interesting! Just ordered a Power Supply Tuning Kit for my Bluesound Node and want to experiment with battery supply.
Battery is not always better. They generate noise as well. But you can always try!
@@TheAlphaAudio thanks for the reply, that's a good hint. I'm a bit jealous about your measuring equipment.
More videos please!!!
Ok!
Great video. I think it would be important to (also) see the effect of PS noise on a SPDIF out wave form. To show resultant interference on the digital waveform clock and/or data stream.
We can check that as well.
@@TheAlphaAudio Thanks! Great work on providing objective measurements. These are badly needed in the audio community. I just discovered your channel and now subscribed.
I always use the digital output of a streamer.
How do we ground our equipment? What wires? Plug? Where to connect? Please answer.
I hope you do more videos like this.
Can you do the same test with the 2 streamers going to the same external DAC?
These have internal dacs...
@@TheAlphaAudio I mean to show the down stream effort of changing a power supply on a streamer being digital connected to a external DAC. Measuring the analog outputs of the DAC.
I personally have been staying away from using internal DACs for about 20 years+
@@jaakanshorter yes. I know what you mean. But this test had another focus. Your setup needs another approach.
Excellent videos.
It would have been nice to compare the same ifi power x power supply on the Primo streamer.
If differences are great. Going further you could use a normal SMPS on the ifi.
We did try a IFI in another test. Nice power supplies.
@@TheAlphaAudio
Is ifi’s power supply giving ifi’s streamer better noise results than the Primo streamer or is it the way the ifi’s streamer was designed ?
@@damonsbest mainly the power Supply
I've got my system powered from an LiFePo4 battery with GIANDEL Power Inverter Pure Sine Wave 600Watt 12V DC to 120V AC (Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 12-Volt 20 amp charger). This gives pure power with no grid connection. Basically like the STROMTANK but at a tiny fraction of the price.
That's a pretty cool solution!
I'm hoping you test it! You'd be able to measure and hear the effects! @@TheAlphaAudio
what battery(s) do you use or recommend ?
If you think a battery is a better solution, think again.
@@r423sdex please share why it's not ?
What have found to be a better solution ?
If you have a power cable that has ground( Dutch) does it works the same a how you ground the devices in the video?
No. In case of single ended tests, I need to ground the devices on the analyzer. Or - when testing ethernet via the CDN for example - ground the CDN to the analyzer. Tha tis different from grounding in a hifi system.
Great video. I have the WiiM pro, anthem 1140 and paradigm founder 120 speakers. Which power supply would you recommend that I use for my WiiM pro? Thanks so much.
It doesn't do that much on the Wiim Pro to be honest.
Thanks for sharing.
I used an ifi ipower 2 om my Wiim and noticed an improvement right away.
But when I put a Linear power supply the LPS25VA that was a big improvement
just over twice the price and in my system easily that much benefit.
I was looking at the Anthem avr reveivers how is it playing for you ?
Good video.
Does the Primo with Ifi power x supply match the Eversolo a6 stanard edition quality?
Didn't test that.
@@TheAlphaAudio thanks
Great 👍 Possibly how do you ground something like the neo stream and to what?
You can ground the case to a decent ground on a power strip.
@@TheAlphaAudio Like an actual ground pin in a free socket?
@@thepickyaudiophile yes. For example. I made a cable with just the ground connected to the plug. That is safer.
@@TheAlphaAudio Thanks! And that’s a great idea for safety🪫I was considering the grounding box from PSA, supposedly it’s very effective.
Hi, many thanks of the detailed test video. Been searching one here for a while.
Instead of dedicated expensive linear power supplies available in the market, using a good quality workbench linear power supply can power a streamer which needs 5V 2A like you did. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks again!
That works.
Thanks!
Nice if you can suggest a good versatile model which can double up as a streamer power supply without breaking the bank😊
@@kattarhindu451 we are not experts on that front. I use the Rigol shown in the video. It works perfectly fine.
@alphaaudio, many thanks for your prompt response 👍🏻
To save me watching the video does the ifi power x work and do its job? Thanks.
Just watch the video.....😖
Hi, what is the name of the software you're having on the screen
It is part of the Prism dScope. You need the hardware.
I'd love to see this same experiment, but have the power supply be from different battery technologies (i.e. SLA, Li-Po, LiFePo4, etc.).
We might do that.
Any suggestion how to ground a RPI4 when using it as a streamer.
Depends on the power supply
Now post that to the blind (on this subject) community of Audio Science Review!Great job!!
Feel free to share the video ;-). But I already know what they will say...
@@TheAlphaAudio that the noise (floor) is below audible threshold? - ignoring that noise is added to any signal.
@@alphaniner3770 something like that, yes. But yes... it gets added and amplified.
Yes do that, they will have a laugh.
C'mon, that community is not blind! Most definitely deaf though
I bought the same device on Amazon and returned it. Unless you "need" to compensate for an existing issue there's no point.
Hello I added a linear power supply to my Blue Sound node with the s. Booster kit using as streamer only connected to a Chord qutest DAC with a linear power supply. Did I waste money on the front end (Bluesound) upgrade? Being I'm not using its DAC.
Thanks for sharing.
No you didn't waste your money ( unless you you can't hear a noticeable sound difference from the nodes supplied power )
From what I've heard
adding a better power supply like a linear power supply to your source (blue node) is the way to go.
I added a linear power supply to my WiiM and heard a big difference.
@deadline7610 Agreed, I do hear a difference by upgrading the front-end (streamer) and rear-end (DAC). Actually, it's getting better as the burn in point is reached. Nice smooth, almost analog sound from the Chord Qutest.
I prefer Mean Well medical GSM line SMPS, 5/9/12/15/19v. They are cheap and work great.
Makes you wonder why these expensive streamers aren't sold as standard with a linear PSU. It's not difficult to make a very low noise linear PSU for little money.
I have IFI Zen Dac V2 and IFI Zen Can. I am using Dac V2 just as a Dac and Zen Can as an amp to power my headphones. Dac V2 is powered off of PC USB port and Zen Can is powered off of a supplied switching power supply (not ifi ipower x of course). Both cost about 200 euros each. Is there a point for me to buy IFI ipower x or ipower 2 and which one better? Ipower x is 109 and ipower 2 is 69 euros. Is ipower 2 good enough? I don't move them anywhere, they just sit on my computer desk. Should I buy and use them ipower x or power 2 plugs just for the Zen Can or Zen Dac V2 too? If I used it for the Dac V2 (which doesn't have a power on/off button) it would mean that I would have it powered on all the time even when away from a PC. Most importantly If I powered the Zen Can with it would I hear an audible difference, better quality sound? I am leaning towards just buying one for the Zen Can if at all. I have them both units interconnected via rca and balanced 4.4mm to 4.4mm pentacon cables and using se and balanced modes depending on the headphones I am using. Is it true that If I am using balanced mode, but using single ended cable on the headphone, the noise levels are the same as I would use rca mode or is it still better? Thanks
I dont know the products. So I can't say anything about it. Sorry.
The influence of the dc cable is there too
I never heard a large difference... but that doesnt mean it is not possible.
@@TheAlphaAudio Try the Kemp dc to dc cable replace it with the standard dc cable its a nice upgrade ..large isnt the word the difference is there
@@razzman2987 will try.
@@TheAlphaAudio Whether you bought a new High-End DAC, headphones amplifier, turntable or network switch, it doesn't matter: as soon as these are combined with a High-End linear power supply, the DC cable is often overlooked, but can make a difference. A good DC cable is a must to extract the full potential hidden in your gear.
You should have done as such:
Both streamers with both power supplies.
Great video, and watched it very closely to relate to my situation. am going on iFI Neo Stream as my main streamer using the optibox. I noticed the iPowerX was not the best psu for it. After trying out some linear psu, i ended up with KECES lpsu. On my Chord Mscaler preferred the out of box laptop style psu over any lpsu or iPowerX. With any other psu the Mscaler will make the sound degrade.
One question how did you ground the iFI Neo Stream? I would want to try that too
You can ground the casing to earth ground.
Zeer goede test. Heel duidelijk maar voor mij de hamvraag, hoor je die verschillen ook echt?
Ja. Zeker.
@@TheAlphaAudio geloof ik wel. Gebruik zelf een omgetoverd Meraki met lineaire voeding. Meer rust en betere imagine. Maar wat ik bedoel is, ik geloof niet dat alles wat je meet pre se hoorbaar is en ook niet altijd beter gaat zijn. Thanks.
Great video. I have always wondered why the "audiophiles" whom consider themselves to be electrical engineers never test with a linear lab power supply.
Have you tested linear, "audiophile" power supplies compared to the lab power supplies like in this video? Try any amateur radio 13.8VDC linear power supplies that are much cheaper, compared to "audiophile" ones?
I have experimented with linear lab power supplies, more expensive Schaffner ($50+) power line filters with stock switch mode power supply, low amperage (6 Amp or less) 13.8VDC radio power supplies, and stock power supply alone. Using an RME ADI-2, depth and height of the sound stage increased when using linear power supplies. No difference in width. Very slight improvement in resolution of high frequencies, which correlates to increased height and depth of the sound stage. No discernable difference between lab and amateur radio power supply. Schaffner filtering incoming wall AC barely made a difference.
I was temped at one point to try an audiophile power supply, but the prices are laudable for the engineering when viewing teardowns of the guts on youtube.
The Rigol lab psu sounds great. It is also very quiet. But not cheap by the way. I have recently tested some audiophile PSUs and measured them. The Farad Super 10 is special... definately better than the Rigol.
@@TheAlphaAudio Thank you for the reply and interesting observation!
Linear lab PSU's are never "cheap", but their ratings for max ripple voltage peak to peak and load recovery time are two important specifications that I have yet to see even mentioned in audiophile PSU's.
The Farad Super 10 is intriguing. They did well to shield all "coils". It amazes me when looking at some speaker crossover designs, how the inductors are right next to each other in the same orientation, causing cross-talk between them.
Interesting the final output stage with foil capacitors. They are rather small though, which means very low farad ratings for recovery with current bursts. Would this be a problem for a Digital to Analog converter? Probably not.
I question using Super Capacitors though, as they are never rated over 3 Volts max, and as a rule usually used at 2.5 Volts. Seeing that there are 6 of them, I would hope that they are in series, allowing for 15 Volts output. This means the advertised total capacitance implied is actually a fraction of the total capacitance. The total capacitance rating would end up being: the rating of a single supercapacitor, divided by total # of super capacitors in the circuit, if in series. A bank of tantalum capacitors would have made more sense to me. Higher end electronics lab equipment and avionics agree with me in this regard, and avoid the very reduced total capacitance if running in series compared to parallel layout.
Looking at the price of the Farad Super 10, I wonder what the difference would be compared to a Rhode and Schwartz NGA101 or NGL201, priced at $1400 and $2800, compared to Super 10 at $3950. At the Super 10's price, I can get a R&S NGA101, and still have money left over for a pair of JBL 705P, IK Multimedia Precision 6, or Genelec 8330A with GLM SAM management system.
Love your uTube channel very techinal I have question I purchased Topping DX-3 Pro + I decided to replaced stock wall wart. I purchased iFi Power v1 need 15v @ 1A for some reason iFi does not powered up unit. I checked power with volt meter measuring 15.05 V any suggestion recommendation for power Supply Topping also sell P50 is Linear Power Supply but always out of stock
Henri
Did you check polarity? Some units need inverted polarity. And does the IFI have enough current?
Yes checked the polarity with flute volt meter and voltage Topping cheap wall wart 5.23v and iFi measure 5.05v .I also reached out to Topping the unit uses stanard power supply and iFi technicial support is great also scratching heads no reason why shouldnt work...@@TheAlphaAudio
The Topping Wall wart rated @ 1A the iFI PS rated @1.2A I placed order for same one you reviewed adjustable PS hopefully works from Amazon C$26.00 . My last resort is order Linear PS Topping P50 but no stock from APSO in CA. They do have stock in China @@TheAlphaAudio
@@hexen0076 indeed... Very weird!
Interesting. How can we determine whether the Power supply is effecting the streamer, the DAC or both?
Measurements or just trying multiple psu's
@@TheAlphaAudio I am assuming that the analog outputs have bee processed by the internal DACs , correct? If so, how can we differentiate whether the LPS has an impact on the streamer or the Dac (or both)?
Hi. What do you think about using powerbank instead of power supply?
Batteries can create noise as well...
@@TheAlphaAudio Thank you. Do you have experience with ifi power elite?
@@JarekPawlak yes. Very decent power supply.
@@TheAlphaAudio Thank you for prompt respond. ill buy it tomorrow for may new chord qutest :)
@@JarekPawlak nice choice. But do know that it heavily influences the sound. I would try two / three different ones...
It´s hard to recognize the scaling of your Dscope monitor. Looks dramatic but isn´t really audible under blind testing conditions.
Ok
Optical and coaxial out? Does that matter...
Yes. But the outcome completely depends on the dac or source.
My hearing tops out at 10 kHz. I don’t think I need to worry about 25 kHz noise.
It is not what you hear, but how it influences the sound at certain frequencies and how that in turn influences the harmonics. That, you will hear.
Well... that... its the harmonics. And the perceived calmness.
It’s beyond hearing but we can sense it. common man , that is highly subjective. Really love the video but please don’t such statements 🙏 thanks for the great video 👍
And with the stock power supply and -130db or better I've better things to spend money on.
Balanced is only better over great distances, just use good quality RCA and there is no difference audibly
I dont agree. It is completely dependent on the devices...
@@TheAlphaAudio no it doesn’t
@@TheAlphaAudio there is no audible difference especially when you use good isolated rca cables. Balanced is used over greater distances. I have a good dac with balanced outputs and it makes 0 difference over a short distance
@@tjeerdkruidhof5808 ok
Maybe Linear Power Supplies would be better.
Why?
@@TheAlphaAudio much less noisy
@@JohnUsp not necessarily...