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I'm leaning more and more into the opium dream theory. One perhaps underrated factor that i never see mentioned is that old Noodles sees Max's "son" exactly as Max was as a teen (same actor) which suggests to me even more that it's a dream. Also the ending and the whole story about how Max made himself a politician, why he invited Noodles back in the first place, how Debrah hasn't aged at all, seems a bit too convenient and bizarre to actually be true. My interpretation of the final smile is also Noodles actually coming to terms with his guilt about what he did to his friends and Debrah, while it also being the last image of the actual timeline of the story. That's why it's a freeze frame
I would say so but the entire movie is what? Once upon a time in America its how all storylines begin i believe he was looking into the past but the end may not be a dream he came to terms by not looking into the dumper because max did this before to him drowning and like he never called him max because he felt max was dead 35 years earlier even is max was alive i heard they killed jimmy Hoffa in the end sequence
Noodles never leaves the Opium den. After raping the girl he loved (in a car), and ratting on his friends - he turns (once again) to opium. He’s trying to unburden his guilt through opium - and winds up projecting the future where Max and McGovern’s character survives. He never leaves the opium den alive. Which may have been his plan too.
What we didn't see in the scene where his friend 'supposedly' killed himself using a garbage truck -- where there were these huge grinders -- what we didn't see was blood and guts grinding through with the garbage. Thus, my conclusion is that with the lack of blood and guts, he didn't kill himself in the garbage truck, but instead, he caught a ride on the side of the truck and once again got the hell out of a life that he no longer wanted, where he will start 'another' new life down in the South of France, with some new chic. There was no sign of him having committed suicide by a garbage truck. .
You make another fun point to add to the pile of discussion. Did Noodles, only under the opium influence, grin because he could see Max probably faking his death that fateful night in 1933? We dream what we dream but I don't think we have control over what happens in our dreams.
I noticed that too but have posited- not concluded- that that image adds to the theme that these guys are garbage. Could be seen as a motif of them anyway. This movie was an indictment of gangster glamorization- not a celebration.
I just watched this movie for the 5th time. It’s been well over 25 years since I watched it. I need to see this to refresh my memory. It’s such a great movie, definitely one of my favorite movies.
Another interesting point about the dream theory, is we actually hear the song, “Yesterday” by Paul McCartney in the movie. It’s woven into the score, and used as a timestamp to show us we have entered the future timeline of the 1960’s and 70’s. McCartney, himself, wrote the song after he heard it in a dream.
Beautiful analysis. Your channel deserves so much more recognition. I love how how whether future events in the film were or were not a dream doesn't take anything away from the movie, it is still masterfully done art piece and it gives you incredible feeling either way. Also I like to think that Robert DeNiro is the only one who knows the true answer.
I like how the garbage truck - the future, drives by one direction and then in the other direction leading away are the cars with flappers- the past and so ends the dream.
DeNiro’s smile has haunted me since I saw the film in 1984. It’s the most memorable smile in all of film history. It scared me - fascinated me all at the same time. BTW - When Noodles first meets Max, Max is on a truck (horse drawn). So, having Max “exit” on a truck is a perfect bookend - in Noodles mind.
Can we just stop and appreciate the tiny part where max turns the phone the correct way round when he walks into the office. The way its lit...at that point he knew. Stroke of genius
I never liked the dream scenario because I felt so sorry for Noodles. But that's just the point. In his dream, Noodles is the tragic hero. Him being betrayed in such a way that it is the ultimate betrayal, makes the film a male tearjerker. And that's fine, I lived with that idea for most of my life. However, if it's all a dream, Noodles is just an incompetent junkie who got his friends killed over nothing. That hits even harder. We the audience want life and films to make sense. Any director of substance will not give us an easy viewing though. I wanted the film to be 'I did it my way.' But it's really Noodles in Hell
I was too and actually was relating to him (in a way anyway) and him being old and regretting things etc. I was there until he raped Deborah..That might make me a hypocrite, since he raped Carol when robbing the bank..But it seemed to me she wanted it and was into the abuse.I digress and I even think he did it to her(Debbie) also because she said she was leaving for Hollywood.. So that was an extra Cruelty on top of all of the rest of it.
I think Max made his mind up to rip Noodles off there and then in the hospital when the union guy's leg was shot up, either then or at the very least when he went on vacation with Noodles, when you see Max run down to noodles via the elevators, you also see the last shot of pesci and he gives an interesting look. Anyone notice the parrells of Max's kart meant to block the viewing of the mugging at the start and the garbage truck blocking the viewing of what happens to Max?
Excellent examination of final (scenes) in OUATIA it's such a profound movie and every year you get older adds different dimensions to it. As you rightly say is it all dreams, flashbacks and some elements of wish fulfillment? Or does everything happen in noodles future to him and max? I've always personally believed it all going to happen(before ppl come out with their burning torches and pitchforks) that very much my own opinion. As OUATIA has had its fan base grow from 0 to major cultdom in forty years it is inevitable. Great review
I must say I was the same, I took it for years that everything happened, it's only in recent years I've delved into questioning it. I agree the movie really does tap into a lot of what can't actually be communicated in words, only in memory and subconscious
@@JimTheMovieGeek when I first saw it I was considerably younger, when you young you have the benefit of not knowing anything, no real betrayal or deaths in the family, or even murder victims. As you get older all that drops away and the place and yours in it shift dramatically. That's just my opinion.
I guess the script writer wanted to describe Noodles as somene wanting to make the past right as much as he could.also when visiting Deborah in 1968. I´ve never thought about the dream version, but it´s still a possible interpretation. I´ve allways thought that Max survived the raid on the Federal Reserve, without Noodles knowing about it until 1968(and Noodles had warned him for the coup allready before it took place in the 30:s). I´ve allways thought Noodles visit to Deborah after 35 years was meant to be "real".
Someone once mentioned the frisbee scene disproving the dream theory. That scene was very deliberate and he wouldn’t have dreamed of a frisbee because it didn’t exist yet.
I think the flaw with trying to come up with the endings meaning is that the movie was originally supposed to be 6 hours long. and we don't know whether these missing 2 and a half hours that were cut have had an effect on the meaning of its ending.
@wendellwiggins3776 Me neither.. are we supposed to believe that in Noodles "dope dreams" from the 30s, that Noodles prophesied coloured T.Vs & CCTV recorders and monitors in the 60s?
Yeah but why is debroah so young looking in the future scenes? She didn't age 1 bit. And what is a garbage truck doing in front of maxes house at a very late hour. Very random. Even sergio leone said he believed this was a credible way to look at the movie.
Some people age very well. Look at Dick Clark who was about 322 when he died. Lol . Seriously, I think Debora did age somewhat as she down toned her vocals and as she was taking off her makeup I think we are supposed to see the slight imperfections of age attempting to creep in. Jimmy O'Donnell likely arranged the garbage truck to be there.
I remember earlier releases on video they added gun shots to the sound track right when Max got behind the truck. Likely silly decisions made by those managing the video release. But that’s removed now and all you hear is a surge from the grinders but it sounds like a startup rather than grinding a body.
There is a clue that the 1960s scenes were a dream right after the garbage truck scene and you even show it: the three cars with party-goers are from the 1920s/1930s.
Those party goers were so obviously from that past era that I never could accept Leone would be so obvious 😀 Then again, my original view that the film showed Noodles' real fate was me taking the obvious interpretation. We the viewers don't want it all to be a dream. *We want to know and will over analyze that garbage truck scene for years.* Though I never believed Max jumped into the truck. That close up of the open back of the truck showing not even blood. It's like magician Leone saying to the audience: 'No children, Max is not in the truck!'
Yes the truck tail lights dissolve into the oncoming headlights of the 30's roadsters with the people celebrating the demise of prohibition as we once again hear "God Bless America" like at the very beginning of the film. Behind Noodles is a Chinese pagoda like the opium theatre. The question remains, does Noodles look up, see the assassins and grin as they finish their hit?
It is hard to know what means models smile at the end sence but I think he was satisfied with his manner to other guys and he did not cheat to his friends .
I think this film deserves the same admiration and respect that The Godfather gets, if not more, but it will never get it because the story is too honest about Noodles and about human nature. He is an evil man who's done terrible things, and the movie isn't shy about it. Whereas The Godfather shows all its bloodthirsty gangster psychopaths in a very romantic and favorable light, Once Upon a Time is far more straightforward about the kinds of men who populate that world. The high dosage of truth in the storytelling tends to put a bad taste in many viewers' mouths.
I think that when Max dissappears its because its proving to Noodles that this was all a dream..so he checked the back of the garbage truck and saw that there was no blood and guts which proves to him hes only dreaming . The end smile I feel is his conclusion that either hes in his happy place only when hes on opium to block out the past or hes smiling cause he knows it was just a dream and he can still alter the future better with what hes learned from his dream.
What we need to consider about the ending is this, where does that final scene match up in the time-line of the film? What scene does this scene directly continue from?? Was this Noodles first or last time at Chun-Laos? With Noodles Having been in prison for 11 years from a kid to an adult, you'd have to assume that Noodles wasnt familiar with Chun-Laos until After he got out of Prison. So, is this scene directly after Deborah leaves to go to Holywood? (When Noodles finally comes back, Cockeye claimed he saw him and Chun-Laos, calling out for Deborah) Or.. does this Scene continue after the shootout which killed Max, Patsy and Cockeye? (The next scene after that scene shows the Cops beating up Moe to find out where Noodles is)
Exactly. Those weren't cops, those were Frankie Minaldi's boys. Remember when they first sat down with Frankie and Joe to talk about the diamonds? Noodles glances over at a table and in the shadows, there were the boys.
The smile at the end is just a smile , and a way to say “that’s all folks” of a way to kind of take a bow at the end of the film, This stuff about the last part of the film being an opium dream is nonsense, for a start opium dosnt give you dream or hallucinations, but just gives you a comfortable feeling and can make you relax into a day dream contemplation but not with any kind of alternative reality, and when you actually do fall asleep during opium you don’t actually have a dream and opium takes away the pain of your guilty emotions
Interesting take on it I can see your points there 👍 I didn't know that about opium, who knows maybe like you said it's just all done for a memorable ending bow
@@JimTheMovieGeek obviously I am nobody to claim as fact what the director’s intentions were, but also if the last part of the film WAS some kind of imagined future or a dream or whatever then it would be extremely difficult for the audience to understand that, and the director did say that he wanted to leave it open to interpretation if Max did die or not at the end, and if the director was trying to tell us it was all a dream (the future part) then he wouldn’t have cared if max really died or not if it was just a dream, I know it’s only a film and doesn’t really matter, but that’s my point to people, not to look to deep into works of fiction, Anyway it was an interesting video , fair play to you video Thanks✌️
In my opinion he did not jump in the garbage truck. However, there would be no screaming. A death involving that type of equipment and the whole mechanics of the trauma would not allow any screaming.
The garbage truck is actually a very simple analogy. The future scenes are garbage in the sense that they are fantasy. There is also a scene that shows the truck explode outside the mortuary. The truck has odd decals that are more suited to the 1920/30s and the 35 on the truck is the amount of years that are essentially a “pipe dream”. That’s actually where that term comes from. Opium dreams.
Have you seen the scene with the truck outside of the mortuary? It’s a work print only scene and grainy as hell but some version I saw had it in there and it kinda swayed me more towards the pipe dream hypothesis as I believe he then wakes up in the opium den once again. The truck is his subconscious telling him the truth within the fantasised future in the “pipe dream”.
Whats with the wedding ring it obviously has a meaning but everyone seems to ignore the fact that noodles draws our attention to it briefly. I think that warrants an explanation
Devils face at the end deniero and the other members were truly evil individuals was waiting for deniro role to be thrown in the back of the garbage truck
I'll leave the video running until the end, but I can't watch it mate. I'm ashamed to say that I haven't seen this movie yet lol. I'll need to check it out then revist your analysis. 👍
I think the opium dream explanation is too easy. I suspect Max, in case Noodles declined, came up with that Plan B (throwing himself in back of trash truck - it's by his own hands, and with just half of his effort, toss himself inside, probably medicated, then let gravity and truck do the rest). Once Upon A Time referring to a love story about boyhood friends, not so much an opium dream.--- Add: I think Max's outbursts bc he's afraid of getting old & crazy, his longing gaze at identical son & date prob not wanting his son to lead a rough life, & solid Plan B (see above), I think, add weight to my theory.
What I have always wondered is, assuming the ending is not a dream and Max is indeed filthy rich (and corrupt), 1) Why didn't Moe even think that "Mr. Bailey" might have been Max? His face must have been in the news almost nightly. And, 2) Max should have been smart enough to see the end coming and stashed away another getaway suitcase. He could easily have disappeared at any time and moved across the world to live out his life. Obviously, this is at odds with the entire plot of the movie and wouldn't work, but that's what I would have done. If I was filthy rich and corrupt, anyway.
Max smiles because he’s high as a kite off opium which makes all the awful things that happened ok. He’s experiencing that “everything is as it should be” zen only drugs can impart. I don’t like the “dream” explanation, but that last scene with the garbage truck makes me wonder after watching this video. I preferred him the betrayed friend.
The ending is not real and very surreal. Max jumping in the truck to his death makes no sense and is elaborate without witnesses that he would need to substantiate his death. Additionally, there is no blood in the truck blades (which they seem to want to show the audience) or evidence of his demise. The partiers driving by seem very out of place as well.
I don't really want to bye into the dream idea. To be honest, I find that a bit cheap, more for a soap lile Dallas. The film was never intended to be chronological. It's also been cuttt badly, the running time was supposef to be double. This made the ending unclear. But at the same time added to the mystique, people can fill in the blank parts.
The whole "it was an opium inspired dream is nonsense. Nobody has dreams that project thirty-five years into the future. Had Leone wanted to use the dream trope then he would have kept the same time period and run out a fantasy. He wouldn't have needed to spend the money on movie sets which were contemperous with the late sixties. It seems unlikely that Max jumped into the garbage truck. The anger would have been wet with blood as it passed Noodles. And there was plenty of time for even an elderly Max to have ducked out of sight. However, Leone definitely wanted the viewer to entertain that idea!
In Leone's previous film of the trilogy, power and dominance is a frequent theme - from Western bad men trying to take control of a railroad that will rake in millions as the West fades into obscurity - to a dream of a free Mexico in the second film, ''Duck You Sucker'', that ends up fading away until, in the words of its Irish terrorist character, who used to believe in principles... ''now all I believe in is dynamite''. In the introducing quotation of the film, Mao Zedong the known Marxist writings is used. This leads me to believe that Sergio Leone, also means, especially with the Oriental style of the Opium scenes, and Marx with his invention of the metaphorical ''Opium of the masses'' is inspired by the historical period in which the British used Opium trade as a means of placation of the masses they robbed and stole from. The Opium in this case is the dream of American power and success in the dream of affluence in the twenties before the Depression hit, ''making it big'' in society and politics or power, even in the case where Deborah is dining with Noodles, she 'talks just like Max', because in the world of dancing she wants to ''reach the top''. The Opium is the dream of making it to the top of moving and shaking the world, its gilded crest of high society. Noodles avoids the Opium of high classed society and its underbelly of violence and coercion for a different Opium; real opium, the opium of the streets, like when he shows suspicion of Max's desire to enter into politics at first and says ''I like the stench of the streets...'' Yet Max, is animated by something Noodles cannot feel, ''A Dream'', Max's dream is Max's intoxication. By the end of the film, Max (if he is real or not) is as defeated by the attainment of his intoxicating dream at the end as Noodles is exhausted by his decades-long Opium habit. The metaphor that Sergio uses that Opium is like cinema, is interesting, in that he might be saying we go to cinema to escape the woes of ordinary life in the flights of fantasy, the screen reflects our desires, numbs our attention to a dream state where we flow between images of time and space, music and enchantment. That moment when we reach suspension of worries, laughing at a joke, we grin as if caught by something far off. ''I took your money, I took your girl'' taunts Max at the end, because he had out of vengeance usurped all of Noodles' success, prestige, privilege and future - but Noodles does not do what Max expected, it had lost its allure, ''a certain amount of power takes a certain amount of responsibility'' Noodles wisely tells Max, while forgiving him for having taken all his dreams of material prosperity from him, they are just outward trappings to Noodles in retrospect, it was the friendship itself that was more important than all of that. In other words, being an audience or spectator of a cinema is a more innocent and harmless way to indulge in the same affects and vice of Opium - cinema can also be an escape from life, like religion it is an ''Opium of the masses'' like Marx said, and Sergio, well aware of this - of course plays with this idea. We can treat of more violent, disturbing things too terrible to confront as audience spectators with a distance of dream-like separation allowing us to observe outside of affect the terrible scene that occurs.
You missed that the intermission comes in just as noodles is about to go forth with the plot that “kills” Max. Then we pick back up in a surreal different, aged world where Deborah still looks young and fresh as the day he raped her and is now a huge success. Also that she didn’t completely lose it on him when she saw him again. Instead she allowed him to move further into the dream sequence through a series of random and unexplained events
Everything with Max and Noodles in gray hair is an opium dream, it just doesn't work otherwise. Debra (the love of Noodles life is the ONLY one who doesn't age a day in his opium dream - she remains the same as she is in the 1930s. While in the dream and visiting Debra who although playing Cleopatra is in white Kabuki makeup (weird - a Kabuki is a women isn't in love with any of the men she skillfully pleasures) but regardless of all that it's very odd makeup for Cleopatra. While dreaming about visiting this future Debra she receives a knock on her dressing room door. The knocker?? is supposedly "her son? someone other women's son?). This 'dream" son says "Hi Debra, it's David" kind of strange thing to call your "mother?" by her name. This is Noodles Dream state and under opium of course, he'd subconsciously want to think in "his dream future" she'd still be waiting for him, childless and husbandless even 30 years down the road and that she'd forgiven him for the rape (probably the biggest mistake of his life or at least the one with the most consequences as far as Noodles is concerned). Also the women (also aged in white hair at the funeral parlor (who points out Debra as a benefactor in the photo); is actually, in reality killed in the first scene of the movie. There's also no explanation of how gray haired Max supposed became so famously wealthy or why Debra (who always hated gangsters) would end up with him. In his opium dream Noodles gets to kill Max a 'second time?" which he refuses to do thus exonerating himself for the fateful phone call he made to the police. The whole garbage truck scene is just plain bazaar (like most things in dreams, especially drug induced dreams) there's no blood, no screams despite Max supposedly chopping himself up, and who are the cruises in the 1930s car who drunkedly cruise by, tossing out beer bottles? And then there's two visits to the money stash in the train depot locker, in one he finds the money, and in the 'gray haired' second trip he doesn't only news clipping of his old pals killed by cops. Dream guilt. The movie only makes sense if you take everything up to the call to the cops as real and everything in the 'aged" Max and Noodle as an opium dream.
Amazing points! I'll be honest that all makes sense so I think you may be right especially the stuff about the "dream son" that is pretty clear when you think about it
Debra is the step-mother and she explained Max had married a wealthy woman, bore a son (David), then died. She also explained she grew weary and took up with a now wealthy widower who was a childhood acquiantance under an assumed identity with privilege.
First of all, it was all a dream ending is always the worst, laziest way to end an epic movie of that scope and magnitude. To understand the ending one has to put into the proper context of the storyline. When he visited the opium den in the beginning it proved to be in context when he thought his three partners were all dead. What is reaction when he is told that he is being stalked by gangsters? It is to recover the key to the box in the railroad station containing the gangs' loot. When he discovers that the money is gone and replaced with newspapers, he knows that Max planned this scheme to steal all the money for himself and go off on his own. Noodles knew it was Max because he was the only one that was disfigured supposedly. Penniless and being stalked by Max's men he fled to Buffalo to escape the fate of his other two friends. The reason he smiled at the end was exposition of his true feelings for his boyhood friends. He smiled because he thought that all the money would be his now.
Yes we all understand that fairly straight forward interpretation and I can buy it especially when some of us who study the dream theory too will say that only the 60's parts are a dream. That, I can't buy because there needs to be more clarification on where the dreams begin and end and for what reason. If it's a dream then just about the whole thing needs to be a dream. Noodles dream places himself as the victim who needs to solve the mystery and so his mind creates a false narrative. I'm guessing the very last scene is going to be the beginning of his dream because just before the gangsters show up at the den we see Noodles spaced out and for a very brief moment we catch a profiled shot of that grin. The opium den shots need to be studied to try and figure out what the dream is and when does it actually begin. Maybe all the boys were alive and lived to a ripe old age. Maybe not.
@@seasonstudios My take is simple and relies on my knowledge of psychology. The movie portrays in my estimation the Dark Triad of anti-social personality in archetypical form. Noodle is a psychopath who acts spontaneously and never shows real regret or remorse for his behavior. Think of the way he stabbed the policeman and the way he raped Elizabeth McGovern. Elizabeth McGovern is a sadistic malignant narcissist who enjoyed frustrating Noodles and actually goaded him into raping her. James Woods is the prototypical sociopath who can form no emotional bonds with anyone and will sell his mother if it furthers his goals.
@@freemandefender1238 Depending on which way we would like the psychological winds to blow in this film, I can agree with your assessment of Deborah and of Max for sure however Noodles is in my opinion another case. The way he stabbed the policeman was out of sudden, immediate rage for losing the youngest of his pals and his being pushed around by everyone in his life including Max. The basic same assessment goes for why the rape happened. He does feel remorse and regret for the things he has done out of his sudden rage. We often see him pinning for what was and could have been had things gone differently. The only time Max really shows any real emotion is when he wants Noodles to do the hit on him but what was the source of that feeble wheeze of emotion? Both he and Deborah only wanted to get to the top. Everything and everyone was secondary.
@@seasonstudios You have to remember something about the Dark Triad. All narcissists aren't psychopaths or sociopaths, but all psychopaths and sociopaths are narcissists. It means that they only person they love in life is themselves and that everyone else is an appendage that can be replaced if not useful to them. How many people did Noodles kill without an ounce of regret? Would you ever rape a woman no matter what she did to your feelings? The tell about Noodles that everyone misses is the broad smile he gave at the end in the opium den. His three closest friends die a very violent death supposedly and his reaction is to "celebrate" by getting high. Why the broad smile? He thought at the time that he was the sole survivor and thus all the money in the locker was his.
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I'm leaning more and more into the opium dream theory. One perhaps underrated factor that i never see mentioned is that old Noodles sees Max's "son" exactly as Max was as a teen (same actor) which suggests to me even more that it's a dream. Also the ending and the whole story about how Max made himself a politician, why he invited Noodles back in the first place, how Debrah hasn't aged at all, seems a bit too convenient and bizarre to actually be true. My interpretation of the final smile is also Noodles actually coming to terms with his guilt about what he did to his friends and Debrah, while it also being the last image of the actual timeline of the story. That's why it's a freeze frame
I've always taken the ending as meaning that Noodles has finally made peace with his past, whether the future scenes are real or not.
I would say so but the entire movie is what? Once upon a time in America its how all storylines begin i believe he was looking into the past but the end may not be a dream he came to terms by not looking into the dumper because max did this before to him drowning and like he never called him max because he felt max was dead 35 years earlier even is max was alive i heard they killed jimmy Hoffa in the end sequence
Noodles never leaves the Opium den. After raping the girl he loved (in a car), and ratting on his friends - he turns (once again) to opium. He’s trying to unburden his guilt through opium - and winds up projecting the future where Max and McGovern’s character survives. He never leaves the opium den alive. Which may have been his plan too.
🎉 50 time's I ever seen this movie 🎥 forever fevrit 🎉❤
What we didn't see in the scene where his friend 'supposedly' killed himself using a garbage truck -- where there were these huge grinders -- what we didn't see was blood and guts grinding through with the garbage. Thus, my conclusion is that with the lack of blood and guts, he didn't kill himself in the garbage truck, but instead, he caught a ride on the side of the truck and once again got the hell out of a life that he no longer wanted, where he will start 'another' new life down in the South of France, with some new chic.
There was no sign of him having committed suicide by a garbage truck.
.
You make another fun point to add to the pile of discussion. Did Noodles, only under the opium influence, grin because he could see Max probably faking his death that fateful night in 1933? We dream what we dream but I don't think we have control over what happens in our dreams.
I noticed that too but have posited- not concluded- that that image adds to the theme that these guys are garbage. Could be seen as a motif of them anyway. This movie was an indictment of gangster glamorization- not a celebration.
Not to mention that Max is not a man who takes his own life. He wouldn't contact Noodles to do it if he could have done it himself.
I just watched this movie for the 5th time. It’s been well over 25 years since I watched it. I need to see this to refresh my memory. It’s such a great movie, definitely one of my favorite movies.
Ein Meisterwerk
Another interesting point about the dream theory, is we actually hear the song, “Yesterday” by Paul McCartney in the movie. It’s woven into the score, and used as a timestamp to show us we have entered the future timeline of the 1960’s and 70’s. McCartney, himself, wrote the song after he heard it in a dream.
Anyone who saw this movie and felt it .. big and sincere hug ! Have a good live!
Beautiful analysis. Your channel deserves so much more recognition.
I love how how whether future events in the film were or were not a dream doesn't take anything away from the movie, it is still masterfully done art piece and it gives you incredible feeling either way. Also I like to think that Robert DeNiro is the only one who knows the true answer.
Thank you for your kind words!
I like how the garbage truck - the future, drives by one direction and then in the other direction leading away are the cars with flappers- the past and so ends the dream.
DeNiro’s smile has haunted me since I saw the film in 1984. It’s the most memorable smile in all of film history. It scared me - fascinated me all at the same time.
BTW - When Noodles first meets Max, Max is on a truck (horse drawn). So, having Max “exit” on a truck is a perfect bookend - in Noodles mind.
I agree, the first time I saw it as a kid, it actually chilled me to the bone, its another testament to Deniros incredible acting
Can we just stop and appreciate the tiny part where max turns the phone the correct way round when he walks into the office. The way its lit...at that point he knew.
Stroke of genius
My favourite film of all time
Mine too. Lord of the Rings is right up there. 1A and 1B
He goes to bed early … so he can dream.
Very astute, love your comment
I never liked the dream scenario because I felt so sorry for Noodles.
But that's just the point. In his dream, Noodles is the tragic hero. Him being betrayed in such a way that it is the ultimate betrayal, makes the film a male tearjerker. And that's fine, I lived with that idea for most of my life.
However, if it's all a dream, Noodles is just an incompetent junkie who got his friends killed over nothing.
That hits even harder.
We the audience want life and films to make sense.
Any director of substance will not give us an easy viewing though.
I wanted the film to be 'I did it my way.'
But it's really
Noodles in Hell
Noodles is rapist and sociopath, that is for sure...
Junkie, yes, and also rapist.
I was too and actually was relating to him (in a way anyway) and him being old and regretting things etc. I was there until he raped Deborah..That might make me a hypocrite, since he raped Carol when robbing the bank..But it seemed to me she wanted it and was into the abuse.I digress and I even think he did it to her(Debbie) also because she said she was leaving for Hollywood.. So that was an extra Cruelty on top of all of the rest of it.
Truly great movie.
I line I don’t say to often…….
A work of art
My favorite movie! I think Max was too chicken to get himself ground up. I think he wanted Noodles to think he was gone once again!
I think Max made his mind up to rip Noodles off there and then in the hospital when the union guy's leg was shot up, either then or at the very least when he went on vacation with Noodles, when you see Max run down to noodles via the elevators, you also see the last shot of pesci and he gives an interesting look. Anyone notice the parrells of Max's kart meant to block the viewing of the mugging at the start and the garbage truck blocking the viewing of what happens to Max?
Excellent examination of final (scenes) in OUATIA it's such a profound movie and every year you get older adds different dimensions to it. As you rightly say is it all dreams, flashbacks and some elements of wish fulfillment? Or does everything happen in noodles future to him and max? I've always personally believed it all going to happen(before ppl come out with their burning torches and pitchforks) that very much my own opinion.
As OUATIA has had its fan base grow from 0 to major cultdom in forty years it is inevitable.
Great review
I must say I was the same, I took it for years that everything happened, it's only in recent years I've delved into questioning it. I agree the movie really does tap into a lot of what can't actually be communicated in words, only in memory and subconscious
@@JimTheMovieGeek when I first saw it I was considerably younger, when you young you have the benefit of not knowing anything, no real betrayal or deaths in the family, or even murder victims. As you get older all that drops away and the place and yours in it shift dramatically.
That's just my opinion.
I guess the script writer wanted to describe Noodles as somene wanting to make the past right as much as he could.also when visiting Deborah in 1968. I´ve never thought about the dream version, but it´s still a possible interpretation. I´ve allways thought that Max survived the raid on the Federal Reserve, without Noodles knowing about it until 1968(and Noodles had warned him for the coup allready before it took place in the 30:s). I´ve allways thought Noodles visit to Deborah after 35 years was meant to be "real".
Someone once mentioned the frisbee scene disproving the dream theory. That scene was very deliberate and he wouldn’t have dreamed of a frisbee because it didn’t exist yet.
I think the flaw with trying to come up with the endings meaning is that the movie was originally supposed to be 6 hours long. and we don't know whether these missing 2 and a half hours that were cut have had an effect on the meaning of its ending.
I never bought into the dream scenario
@wendellwiggins3776 Me neither.. are we supposed to believe that in Noodles "dope dreams" from the 30s, that Noodles prophesied coloured T.Vs & CCTV recorders and monitors in the 60s?
Yeah but why is debroah so young looking in the future scenes? She didn't age 1 bit. And what is a garbage truck doing in front of maxes house at a very late hour. Very random. Even sergio leone said he believed this was a credible way to look at the movie.
Some people age very well. Look at Dick Clark who was about 322 when he died. Lol . Seriously, I think Debora did age somewhat as she down toned her vocals and as she was taking off her makeup I think we are supposed to see the slight imperfections of age attempting to creep in. Jimmy O'Donnell likely arranged the garbage truck to be there.
@@Snorky_88 Actually she does age when seeing her at the party scenes. Backstage she's camouflaged by the makeup which was a clever idea!
I remember earlier releases on video they added gun shots to the sound track right when Max got behind the truck. Likely silly decisions made by those managing the video release. But that’s removed now and all you hear is a surge from the grinders but it sounds like a startup rather than grinding a body.
Leone was a genius, truly invested in his craft, preparing 15 years on his mind for this movie, even refusing Godfather for fulfilling his purpose
💯👍👍👍
The grin is noodles saying I don’t really give a crap- he was a jerk or 2 bit schmuck as Deborah labelled him . The end
There is a clue that the 1960s scenes were a dream right after the garbage truck scene and you even show it: the three cars with party-goers are from the 1920s/1930s.
Wow I never noticed thank you for that! 🤔 interesting !
Those party goers were so obviously from that past era that I never could accept Leone would be so obvious 😀
Then again, my original view that the film showed Noodles' real fate was me taking the obvious interpretation.
We the viewers don't want it all to be a dream. *We want to know and will over analyze that garbage truck scene for years.*
Though I never believed Max jumped into the truck. That close up of the open back of the truck showing not even blood.
It's like magician Leone saying to the audience: 'No children, Max is not in the truck!'
Yes the truck tail lights dissolve into the oncoming headlights of the 30's roadsters with the people celebrating the demise of prohibition as we once again hear "God Bless America" like at the very beginning of the film. Behind Noodles is a Chinese pagoda like the opium theatre. The question remains, does Noodles look up, see the assassins and grin as they finish their hit?
It is hard to know what means models smile at the end sence but I think he was satisfied with his manner to other guys and he did not cheat to his friends .
I think this film deserves the same admiration and respect that The Godfather gets, if not more, but it will never get it because the story is too honest about Noodles and about human nature. He is an evil man who's done terrible things, and the movie isn't shy about it. Whereas The Godfather shows all its bloodthirsty gangster psychopaths in a very romantic and favorable light, Once Upon a Time is far more straightforward about the kinds of men who populate that world. The high dosage of truth in the storytelling tends to put a bad taste in many viewers' mouths.
I think that when Max dissappears its because its proving to Noodles that this was all a dream..so he checked the back of the garbage truck and saw that there was no blood and guts which proves to him hes only dreaming .
The end smile I feel is his conclusion that either hes in his happy place only when hes on opium to block out the past or hes smiling cause he knows it was just a dream and he can still alter the future better with what hes learned from his dream.
Great comment, really interesting observations! I think I agree! 🤔
@JimTheMovieGeek
Thank you brother.This movie i just recently watched and only once but it left me puzzeled a bit as well.thanks for the video bro !
" life is but a dream..sha boom , sha boom" ⏳
What we need to consider about the ending is this, where does that final scene match up in the time-line of the film? What scene does this scene directly continue from?? Was this Noodles first or last time at Chun-Laos?
With Noodles Having been in prison for 11 years from a kid to an adult, you'd have to assume that Noodles wasnt familiar with Chun-Laos until After he got out of Prison.
So, is this scene directly after Deborah leaves to go to Holywood? (When Noodles finally comes back, Cockeye claimed he saw him and Chun-Laos, calling out for Deborah)
Or.. does this Scene continue after the shootout which killed Max, Patsy and Cockeye? (The next scene after that scene shows the Cops beating up Moe to find out where Noodles is)
They weren't cops. Those were gangsters!
my take is that its the start of the movie wher we saw him doped up as people were looking for him
Exactly. Those weren't cops, those were Frankie Minaldi's boys. Remember when they first sat down with Frankie and Joe to talk about the diamonds? Noodles glances over at a table and in the shadows, there were the boys.
The smile at the end is just a smile , and a way to say “that’s all folks” of a way to kind of take a bow at the end of the film,
This stuff about the last part of the film being an opium dream is nonsense, for a start opium dosnt give you dream or hallucinations, but just gives you a comfortable feeling and can make you relax into a day dream contemplation but not with any kind of alternative reality, and when you actually do fall asleep during opium you don’t actually have a dream and opium takes away the pain of your guilty emotions
Interesting take on it I can see your points there 👍 I didn't know that about opium, who knows maybe like you said it's just all done for a memorable ending bow
@@JimTheMovieGeek obviously I am nobody to claim as fact what the director’s intentions were, but also if the last part of the film WAS some kind of imagined future or a dream or whatever then it would be extremely difficult for the audience to understand that, and the director did say that he wanted to leave it open to interpretation if Max did die or not at the end, and if the director was trying to tell us it was all a dream (the future part) then he wouldn’t have cared if max really died or not if it was just a dream, I know it’s only a film and doesn’t really matter, but that’s my point to people, not to look to deep into works of fiction,
Anyway it was an interesting video , fair play to you video
Thanks✌️
Sorry for all the typos and autocorrected words that reply didn’t make any sense lol
The problem I have with Max/Bailey jumping in the garbage wagon to commit suicide is there would be involuntary screams.
good point
Not just that, but there's no discernible blood or flesh in there. He has literally vanished without a trace.
Unless he went in head first.
@@12bfost Yes that would take care of the screams but there would still be blood and matter on the blades.
In my opinion he did not jump in the garbage truck. However, there would be no screaming. A death involving that type of equipment and the whole mechanics of the trauma would not allow any screaming.
The garbage truck is actually a very simple analogy. The future scenes are garbage in the sense that they are fantasy. There is also a scene that shows the truck explode outside the mortuary. The truck has odd decals that are more suited to the 1920/30s and the 35 on the truck is the amount of years that are essentially a “pipe dream”. That’s actually where that term comes from. Opium dreams.
That's very interesting!
Have you seen the scene with the truck outside of the mortuary? It’s a work print only scene and grainy as hell but some version I saw had it in there and it kinda swayed me more towards the pipe dream hypothesis as I believe he then wakes up in the opium den once again. The truck is his subconscious telling him the truth within the fantasised future in the “pipe dream”.
This is the closest thing to any Emmy rossum movie
Whats with the wedding ring it obviously has a meaning but everyone seems to ignore the fact that noodles draws our attention to it briefly. I think that warrants an explanation
I agree...
@JimTheMovieGeek hope we get the answer, to me its pivotal to the whole movie
Devils face at the end deniero and the other members were truly evil individuals was waiting for deniro role to be thrown in the back of the garbage truck
I'll leave the video running until the end, but I can't watch it mate. I'm ashamed to say that I haven't seen this movie yet lol. I'll need to check it out then revist your analysis. 👍
I think the opium dream explanation is too easy. I suspect Max, in case Noodles declined, came up with that Plan B (throwing himself in back of trash truck - it's by his own hands, and with just half of his effort, toss himself inside, probably medicated, then let gravity and truck do the rest).
Once Upon A Time referring to a love story about boyhood friends, not so much an opium dream.---
Add: I think Max's outbursts bc he's afraid of getting old & crazy, his longing gaze at identical son & date prob not wanting his son to lead a rough life, & solid Plan B (see above), I think, add weight to my theory.
Interesting perspective!
Famous "leone take"
What I have always wondered is, assuming the ending is not a dream and Max is indeed filthy rich (and corrupt), 1) Why didn't Moe even think that "Mr. Bailey" might have been Max? His face must have been in the news almost nightly. And, 2) Max should have been smart enough to see the end coming and stashed away another getaway suitcase. He could easily have disappeared at any time and moved across the world to live out his life. Obviously, this is at odds with the entire plot of the movie and wouldn't work, but that's what I would have done. If I was filthy rich and corrupt, anyway.
Good points man I think I'm leaning closer to it being a dream the more I think about it
Max smiles because he’s high as a kite off opium which makes all the awful things that happened ok. He’s experiencing that “everything is as it should be” zen only drugs can impart.
I don’t like the “dream” explanation, but that last scene with the garbage truck makes me wonder after watching this video.
I preferred him the betrayed friend.
The ending is not real and very surreal. Max jumping in the truck to his death makes no sense and is elaborate without witnesses that he would need to substantiate his death. Additionally, there is no blood in the truck blades (which they seem to want to show the audience) or evidence of his demise. The partiers driving by seem very out of place as well.
I don't really want to bye into the dream idea. To be honest, I find that a bit cheap, more for a soap lile Dallas. The film was never intended to be chronological. It's also been cuttt badly, the running time was supposef to be double. This made the ending unclear. But at the same time added to the mystique, people can fill in the blank parts.
The whole "it was an opium inspired dream is nonsense. Nobody has dreams that project thirty-five years into the future. Had Leone wanted to use the dream trope then he would have kept the same time period and run out a fantasy. He wouldn't have needed to spend the money on movie sets which were contemperous with the late sixties.
It seems unlikely that Max jumped into the garbage truck. The anger would have been wet with blood as it passed Noodles. And there was plenty of time for even an elderly Max to have ducked out of sight. However, Leone definitely wanted the viewer to entertain that idea!
In Leone's previous film of the trilogy, power and dominance is a frequent theme - from Western bad men trying to take control of a railroad that will rake in millions as the West fades into obscurity - to a dream of a free Mexico in the second film, ''Duck You Sucker'', that ends up fading away until, in the words of its Irish terrorist character, who used to believe in principles... ''now all I believe in is dynamite''. In the introducing quotation of the film, Mao Zedong the known Marxist writings is used. This leads me to believe that Sergio Leone, also means, especially with the Oriental style of the Opium scenes, and Marx with his invention of the metaphorical ''Opium of the masses'' is inspired by the historical period in which the British used Opium trade as a means of placation of the masses they robbed and stole from.
The Opium in this case is the dream of American power and success in the dream of affluence in the twenties before the Depression hit, ''making it big'' in society and politics or power, even in the case where Deborah is dining with Noodles, she 'talks just like Max', because in the world of dancing she wants to ''reach the top''. The Opium is the dream of making it to the top of moving and shaking the world, its gilded crest of high society.
Noodles avoids the Opium of high classed society and its underbelly of violence and coercion for a different Opium; real opium, the opium of the streets, like when he shows suspicion of Max's desire to enter into politics at first and says ''I like the stench of the streets...''
Yet Max, is animated by something Noodles cannot feel, ''A Dream'', Max's dream is Max's intoxication. By the end of the film, Max (if he is real or not) is as defeated by the attainment of his intoxicating dream at the end as Noodles is exhausted by his decades-long Opium habit.
The metaphor that Sergio uses that Opium is like cinema, is interesting, in that he might be saying we go to cinema to escape the woes of ordinary life in the flights of fantasy, the screen reflects our desires, numbs our attention to a dream state where we flow between images of time and space, music and enchantment. That moment when we reach suspension of worries, laughing at a joke, we grin as if caught by something far off.
''I took your money, I took your girl'' taunts Max at the end, because he had out of vengeance usurped all of Noodles' success, prestige, privilege and future - but Noodles does not do what Max expected, it had lost its allure, ''a certain amount of power takes a certain amount of responsibility'' Noodles wisely tells Max, while forgiving him for having taken all his dreams of material prosperity from him, they are just outward trappings to Noodles in retrospect, it was the friendship itself that was more important than all of that.
In other words, being an audience or spectator of a cinema is a more innocent and harmless way to indulge in the same affects and vice of Opium - cinema can also be an escape from life, like religion it is an ''Opium of the masses'' like Marx said, and Sergio, well aware of this - of course plays with this idea. We can treat of more violent, disturbing things too terrible to confront as audience spectators with a distance of dream-like separation allowing us to observe outside of affect the terrible scene that occurs.
You missed that the intermission comes in just as noodles is about to go forth with the plot that “kills” Max. Then we pick back up in a surreal different, aged world where Deborah still looks young and fresh as the day he raped her and is now a huge success. Also that she didn’t completely lose it on him when she saw him again. Instead she allowed him to move further into the dream sequence through a series of random and unexplained events
Everything with Max and Noodles in gray hair is an opium dream, it just doesn't work otherwise. Debra (the love of Noodles life is the ONLY one who doesn't age a day in his opium dream - she remains the same as she is in the 1930s. While in the dream and visiting Debra who although playing Cleopatra is in white Kabuki makeup (weird - a Kabuki is a women isn't in love with any of the men she skillfully pleasures) but regardless of all that it's very odd makeup for Cleopatra. While dreaming about visiting this future Debra she receives a knock on her dressing room door. The knocker?? is supposedly "her son? someone other women's son?). This 'dream" son says "Hi Debra, it's David" kind of strange thing to call your "mother?" by her name. This is Noodles Dream state and under opium of course, he'd subconsciously want to think in "his dream future" she'd still be waiting for him, childless and husbandless even 30 years down the road and that she'd forgiven him for the rape (probably the biggest mistake of his life or at least the one with the most consequences as far as Noodles is concerned). Also the women (also aged in white hair at the funeral parlor (who points out Debra as a benefactor in the photo); is actually, in reality killed in the first scene of the movie. There's also no explanation of how gray haired Max supposed became so famously wealthy or why Debra (who always hated gangsters) would end up with him. In his opium dream Noodles gets to kill Max a 'second time?" which he refuses to do thus exonerating himself for the fateful phone call he made to the police. The whole garbage truck scene is just plain bazaar (like most things in dreams, especially drug induced dreams) there's no blood, no screams despite Max supposedly chopping himself up, and who are the cruises in the 1930s car who drunkedly cruise by, tossing out beer bottles? And then there's two visits to the money stash in the train depot locker, in one he finds the money, and in the 'gray haired' second trip he doesn't only news clipping of his old pals killed by cops. Dream guilt. The movie only makes sense if you take everything up to the call to the cops as real and everything in the 'aged" Max and Noodle as an opium dream.
Amazing points! I'll be honest that all makes sense so I think you may be right especially the stuff about the "dream son" that is pretty clear when you think about it
Debra is the step-mother and she explained Max had married a wealthy woman, bore a son (David), then died. She also explained she grew weary and took up with a now wealthy widower who was a childhood acquiantance under an assumed identity with privilege.
I have NEVER been able to finish this goddamn movie. It's too boring.
It’s a great movie, but you have to admit that some of the acting is pretty bad.
Which one exactly?
On all parts. The script also.
@@JulianDiaz-Tptna …I don’t think it is
Yeah I respectfully disagree bud it all worked for me even the young actors did great
First of all, it was all a dream ending is always the worst, laziest way to end an epic movie of that scope and magnitude. To understand the ending one has to put into the proper context of the storyline. When he visited the opium den in the beginning it proved to be in context when he thought his three partners were all dead. What is reaction when he is told that he is being stalked by gangsters? It is to recover the key to the box in the railroad station containing the gangs' loot. When he discovers that the money is gone and replaced with newspapers, he knows that Max planned this scheme to steal all the money for himself and go off on his own. Noodles knew it was Max because he was the only one that was disfigured supposedly. Penniless and being stalked by Max's men he fled to Buffalo to escape the fate of his other two friends. The reason he smiled at the end was exposition of his true feelings for his boyhood friends. He smiled because he thought that all the money would be his now.
Yet another pretty good theory.
Yes we all understand that fairly straight forward interpretation and I can buy it especially when some of us who study the dream theory too will say that only the 60's parts are a dream. That, I can't buy because there needs to be more clarification on where the dreams begin and end and for what reason. If it's a dream then just about the whole thing needs to be a dream. Noodles dream places himself as the victim who needs to solve the mystery and so his mind creates a false narrative. I'm guessing the very last scene is going to be the beginning of his dream because just before the gangsters show up at the den we see Noodles spaced out and for a very brief moment we catch a profiled shot of that grin. The opium den shots need to be studied to try and figure out what the dream is and when does it actually begin. Maybe all the boys were alive and lived to a ripe old age. Maybe not.
@@seasonstudios My take is simple and relies on my knowledge of psychology. The movie portrays in my estimation the Dark Triad of anti-social personality in archetypical form. Noodle is a psychopath who acts spontaneously and never shows real regret or remorse for his behavior. Think of the way he stabbed the policeman and the way he raped Elizabeth McGovern. Elizabeth McGovern is a sadistic malignant narcissist who enjoyed frustrating Noodles and actually goaded him into raping her. James Woods is the prototypical sociopath who can form no emotional bonds with anyone and will sell his mother if it furthers his goals.
@@freemandefender1238 Depending on which way we would like the psychological winds to blow in this film, I can agree with your assessment of Deborah and of Max for sure however Noodles is in my opinion another case. The way he stabbed the policeman was out of sudden, immediate rage for losing the youngest of his pals and his being pushed around by everyone in his life including Max. The basic same assessment goes for why the rape happened. He does feel remorse and regret for the things he has done out of his sudden rage. We often see him pinning for what was and could have been had things gone differently. The only time Max really shows any real emotion is when he wants Noodles to do the hit on him but what was the source of that feeble wheeze of emotion? Both he and Deborah only wanted to get to the top. Everything and everyone was secondary.
@@seasonstudios You have to remember something about the Dark Triad. All narcissists aren't psychopaths or sociopaths, but all psychopaths and sociopaths are narcissists. It means that they only person they love in life is themselves and that everyone else is an appendage that can be replaced if not useful to them. How many people did Noodles kill without an ounce of regret? Would you ever rape a woman no matter what she did to your feelings? The tell about Noodles that everyone misses is the broad smile he gave at the end in the opium den. His three closest friends die a very violent death supposedly and his reaction is to "celebrate" by getting high. Why the broad smile? He thought at the time that he was the sole survivor and thus all the money in the locker was his.