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one thing about the horror genre I have always disliked is how frequently female characters are murdered in sexual ways/naked/or scantily clad, meanwhile their male counterparts are never shown being killed in anything less than full clothing. The misogyny and gratuitous violence against women is very telling
I sometimes feel like horror fans (including myself) as a collective don’t discuss the effects of misogyny and femicide themes within the horror genre enough. It always bothers me how throughout the Scream franchise, Sidney’s mother Maureen is always slut shamed/victim blamed and talked down upon because of her extramarital promiscuity. But no one talks about how she most likely became problematically hypersexual because she developed trauma from being sexually abused by Hollywood directors/producers which was revealed in Scream 3.
I hate how much censorship has taken over in recent years. We should be able to say sex, rape and porn in order to discuss such things! As usual a detailed and astute video essay, I hope you are able to continue to create more in the future
As a child, I always wondered why women in horror films (even the side characters) were subjected to more gruesome fates than their male counterparts. Reflecting on it now as an adult/writer it’s clear that it stems from the societal norms of the time and the fact that most directors were men catering to the male gaze. And because culture often imitates art, this cycle likely played a role in reinforcing the objectification of women during that era. It’s fascinating and a bit unsettling to think that only recently have we begun to challenge these portrayals with films like Midsommar and Hereditary that allow their female characters to exist as fully realized individuals instead of being confined to the look of their bodies
@@Nyzahnewton both suffer, not any one to more of a degree than the other. That's a total stereotyped and sexist talking point around the Genre that has never been proven true! It's as if Conservative Mother's groups or Genre Poseurs made that up, even though if you've ever been an actual fan of the Genre, you can plainly see that that's simply untrue. She even says so in this video. In fact, mostly a "Girl" lives and defeats the Villain! Ladies have it easier in Horror! If there are hella misogynistic Horror flicks out there that prove it, where's the list? There isn't one because it's simply not true, as pearl clutching as it's always been presented, it's simply not true.
@@Nyzahnewton both suffer, not any one to more of a degree than the other. That's a total stereotyped and seqist talking point around the Genre that has never been proven true! It's as if Conservative Mother's groups or Genre Poseurs made that up, even though if you've ever been an actual fan of the Genre, you can plainly see that that's simply untrue. She even says so in this video. In fact, mostly a "Girl" lives and defeats the Villain! Ladies have it easier in Horror! If there are hella misogynistic Horror flicks out there that prove it, where's the list? There isn't one because it's simply not true, as pearl clutching as it's always been presented, it's simply not true.
@@Nyzahnewton both suffer, not any one to more of a degree than the other. That's a total stereotyped and seqist talking point around the Genre that has never been proven true! It's as if ConservaTrash Mother's groups or Genre Poseurs made that up, even though if you've ever been an actual fan of the Genre, you can plainly see that that's simply untrue. She even says so in this video. In fact, mostly a "Girl" lives and defeats the Villain! Ladies have it easier in Horror! If there are hella miso. g. yn. istic Horror flicks out there that prove it, where's the list? There isn't one because it's simply not true, as pearl clutching as it's always been presented, it's simply not true.
I always said that the Terrifier series had a lot of misogynistic undertones because the women were always getting the most disgusting, brutal, mean-spirited deaths are the women. But people online said that was a just a Twitter take lol
I totally agree!! I'm a huge fan of horror, especially gore and practical effects, but something about Terrifer really irked me. Like it has every thing that I would like in theory, but it just feels some much more meanspirited than any other """torture porn""" movie I've seen
Sorry TH-cam censors you so much! Really well done video, as usual. I do think the revenge point hits hard-especially when linked with misogyny. It's often forgotten that women can also internalize misogyny too, so we can even celebrate the downfall/redrum of a popular girl, like a "bring them down a peg" revenge
As a writer and male survivor of SA I normally don't see the point in writing specifically about this. We all know it's horrible, so if it needs to be included at all I find the mere implication that such an act has taken place more effective than just showing it. Being something most people are afraid of happening I understand wanting to use it to capitalize on that common fear, however I normally write to connect with people. And I know for a fact that it is not polite to force such a scene on anyone, yet alone those who have actually experienced it.
That incel rant screenshot you showed was horrifying. I paused to read the whole thing. Holy crap, that person is suffering so much inside their own brain, they don't even know what reality is anymore. It's genuinely scary and very, very sad. It immediately drew my mind back to the movie "Men" (jut came from that video lol), and how men are so often the architects of their own suffering. I hope the man that wrote that is able to find some sort of peace and happiness, for his sake as well as everyone else's.
Re: I Spit On Your Grave (the original anyway), Meir Zarchi actually was inspired to make it after he and his daughter helped rescue a woman who'd just been the victim of an assault. They took her to the police first in the hopes of preventing her attackers hurting more people by reporting them, and were shocked at the dismissive and callous way the police treated her (the woman's jaw had literally been broken). So the film was essentially a story about a woman who got justice for herself. Of course it's still a male director telling someone else's story, but at the very least Camille Keaton was protected and taken care of throughout the film, and the male actors volunteered to also appear nude for the scene to show solidarity to her, and she herself continues to defend the film. Then again, I dabble in directing, and I can't say it's a choice I myself would make. I'm a 'less is more' sort of person and more of the 'what you don't see is scarier'. There was one film my then-filmmaking group wanted to make, and a group of other people pitching ideas (all 40+ men btw) wanted a scene like that or aspects of SA in the story, and I was the writer, so I basically wrote it in there with my character being the one it happened to because there was no way I wanted to ask anyone else to have to perform that (little did I know I was subconsciously working through repressed memories of an SA I'd experienced) Someone else pointed out to me that horror tends to be rooted in 'morality play' in the same way that fairy tales were - basically the horror is brought on the characters by their own transgressions. And in the minds of a lot of 70s and 80s writers, that would be promiscuity. But I've noticed that since most of the slashers were imitating the likes of Halloween and Friday the 13th, they borrowed the plot beats without the nuance. In Halloween, Carpenter and Hill said that the kids fooling around was why they were distracted and easier for Michael to get, whereas Laurie is by herself so she saw him coming - and the transgression there is less premarital sex than Annie foisting the girl she's supposed to be babysitting onto Laurie so she can fool around with her boyfriend, and then Bob and Lynda doing it in someone else's house (and they were planning to do so when a child was downstairs). Friday the 13th also had it as part of the killer's motivations that Mrs Voorhees blames two counsellors for fooling around while Jason was drowning, and so that's why the killings are sexually motivated. But the imitators just saw 'hot people boinking and then getting killed', forgetting the context. And it's also likely that the 80s stuff was selling itself on cheap titillation that you weren't getting in mainstream movies, so trying to draw horny teenagers to the movies in the hopes of seeing nudity in a socially acceptable setting, since it was pre-internet. Later when VHS came along, these lower tier movies were made for the purpose of selling better on home video, especially since the back cover would tell you exactly what you were going to get with the ratings system
Re: Dario Argento/Suspiria, as much as I appreciate Argento's work and the giallo genre as a whole, I couldn't help but notice how heavily sexualized women are portrayed in most of giallo movies, especially their deaths - much more so than in Hollywood, I would say.
consistently such a wonderful, articulate, and well-researched channel... always a delight to watch a new video on the censorship thing: i'd totally recommend doing like a patreon thingy or something and putting uncensored/complete versions of videos on there (no clue what im talking abt but i know other channels do something similar)
I’m a weird horror fan. I’ve literally never watched a horror film hoping to see anyone suffer. That is to say I accept and expect it as thing that happens to people in horror. But I’m not expressly seeking out to see people *degraded* and tortured, especially women.
Depends. If you go out to watch horror focused on gore....then torture is not something "you expect" but something you actively chose. Lets be honest, people dont watch saw for the great story or "moral complexity". They like to see how many gruesome ways there are to make people suffer.
Your scripting and analysis are impeccable and thought provoking as per usual, but I have to admit that it's hard to take this as seriously when all of these poignant thoughts are jarringly described using self-censors like "socks" and "rake." I get it bc, TH-cam, but still... otherwise, great as usual!!
I love your analysis and how much research you put into your videos. I think for some women and girls (myself included as a teen who was eternally bullied and unpopular), there's a strong notion of jealousy around "hot" women, so we enjoy watching their murder because it makes us feel better about feeling like we don't meet that standard of hotness/popularity ourselves. As if we're "justified" in not being hot or popular since that's often punished, while the "less attractive/popular" final girl still suffers (mirroring our own feelings of suffering directly at the hands of hot girls, or in directly through media and societal pressures to conform to certain beauty standards) she is ultimately vindicated by being allowed to live whilst the hot and popular girl dies brutally.
i loved this video and i love all ur insights in general! just love ur takes so much - so happy to have found this channel. I just watched night bitch and i thought it was incredibly well done and said a lot about the female experience and motherhood and how woman are represented in media - i just thought it was a great way to tackle a tough topic. I would love to hear ur take on that (p.s. Barbie could be a cool connection)
Surfshark come through! 🎉 Going back to films 10+ years ago reveals how much things have changed recently for women. ESP in the horror genre. Things aren’t perfect but I’m always shocked when I watch a 2000s horror or comedy because there HAS to be a scene of the typically male protagonist’s girlfriend or crush in a bra/bikini. Not to forget the black best friend of the girlfriend/crush who is killed quickly and it’s always framed like she deserves it for being loud. She usually embodies the angry black woman trope. An amazing re-analysis ❤
just wanted to give massive thanks - i'm a filmmaker and still trying to make sense of why so many of my self-penned treatments / screenplays / music videos gravitate so much around innocently presented maiden figures losing their minds or in peril or ultimately meeting untimely demises. i don't totally believe my slant is leaning towards exploitation cinema, but i also can't help but note that i SO OFTEN err towards writing female roles and even in certain cases openly avoiding writing male roles as they so disinterest me (most recently, i've decided to cast the only male role in a piece to be played by a female / female-presenting actor). despite not entirely being heterotypical myself, it's still a bemusing thing for me that makes me wonder about what i might be perpetuating. essays like this do feel like there is some further light / clarity being provided to a particularly murky area of my own introspection and possible censure. as my wife just pointed out though; part of my feeling or weirdness in this also i believe relates to my favourite author (william joseph martin, historically having also written under the name poppy z brite) who, prior to his transition a few years ago, amazed me by being able to write about the male homosexual experience SO accurately on such a visceral and physical level and in so doing made me realise that i wasn't 100% straight. i ABSOLUTELY cannot write the female experience with direct authority or experience, but i can try and learn as much as i can from those prepared to tell me about it, and have thankfully done a fair bit, yet still... here i am writing about women suffering in ways that most intrigue me. IS that indeed, in me, a sadistic relationship with female suffering or simply an adherence to an aesthetic that i've been immersed in and worked professionally within for decades (through death metal & goth in music and then many forms of horror, comedy & drama in film)? i can't as yet say, conclusively.
I used to write a lot of short horror stories when I was 19 through 22 years old. When I was 23 I met a girl who became a very close friend and to whom I showed some of these stories. She told me I was a good writer, but that I was writing about experiences I cound't fathom, for I was not a woman. Today I look back at this moment and I'm ever grateful to it. Before that point in my life I had never been in a relationship and also had feelings of rejection, just like the ones described by incels. When I wrote women in my stories, I used references (mostly the mainstream men directed horror movies and horror books) in which female characters being tortured (both mentally and phisically) seemed like a "okay" trope on a fictional work. I'm really grateful that my friend brought that up and didn't let me think that I was right, or worse: thinking that it was "genius." Today I identify as a gender fluid person, learning more and more about the different experiences people go through, and most important of all, experiences that women go through. I can only hope that my efforts in learning more about feminist theory and queer theory will help me be more empathetic of women and more vigilant of their representation in horror cinema. As for my writing: I mostly write poetry now, and my wife loves it: it's mostly about her being my goddess, and that femininity is divine. Excellent video, as always. Love your work, thank you. ❤
I love your videos so much! I consider myself a deep thinker, so your content is right up my alley. This is such an interesting topic that I feel people haven’t given much thought to. You did such a good job breaking it down!!
From a cliche that got parodies in comedies and actual horrors as well, you made some interesting points. I'm also a big fan of Craven and the more I find out about him the more I feel I can appreciate his skiils and vision but albo should still feel the need to criticise his works as in analyse them and put them in cultural context. Actually, one of Polish youtubers who does film reviews and video essays made a point that r*pe and se*ual a*ault in Scream 3 alludes to the fact that Craven foind out about Weinstein's crimes and him being related to production of Scream franchise, Craven wanted to make a point about s*xual a*use in film business in this movie
This made me think of the ryona fetish... I remember falling into a very deep TH-cam rabbit hole where there are tons of compilations of vídeo game female characters getting killed... Very effed up.
Great video! I wish you’d spent more time exploring your last point about the benevolent sexism of women being used as a device for drawing out more empathy from the audience
Ka rawe ngā mahi, e hoa. 😀 Loooooove your work. Loved you strapping on, but also... Is that a sharps container on your mantlepiece? Please do a video about everything on said mantlepiece? It looks like a few fascinating talismans live on it.
So here's another thought i had about certain horror movies, where female characters get brutalized. What if in these films the women/girls being brutalized is the element of the film's horror because of the nature of the victims? This is why films like Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door, or even the Last house on the Left (the remake) disturb me so much. The girls in both movies were genuinely nice people, Meg and Mari are almost Disney Princess-like in their characters, unlike Chris or Tina from Carrie. You see them do nice things, Mari hanging out with the socially awkward boy, and Meg connecting with the male lead in a genuinely wholesome way. So when fate comes down on both of them without mercy it is horrifying to stomach, it is like a PTSD effect, a disaster while objectively horrifying is made even more so when a best friend or a family member or someone you connected with, is involved in it.
Always hyped when I see you’ve posted a new video. I think I’ve said this before on your video and I’m glad you touched on this in the video, I honestly think the major reason why a lot of filmmakers do horrendously violent things to beautiful women is because it will trigger the greatest emotional response from the audience. A beautiful woman is the most desirable entity for an awful lot of people so to see one hurt or killed in horrifically violent ways is what will upset and stay with a majority of people. I totally agree with your statement on beauty standards in Hollywood. They’re atrocious and have robbed the world of a great deal of talent because the person “didn’t look right”. It’s awful and I hope to see it gone as soon as possible. Your piece on incels was excellent about the terrifying possibilities of misogynistic horror crossing over from the screen to the real world. I perfectly understand the desire to mock and fear incels but truly, I’d like to help them. I think their biggest problem is misguidance by fellow paranoid losers and how if they could be spoken to in real life a lot of them could be helped. No in their online forums and boards are telling them their theories and beliefs on women are bullshit and if they cleaned themselves and used politeness, respect and charm instead of violence, they might just be in with a chance of forming a meaningful relationship with someone. I myself am a screenwriter and have written a slasher film which feature deaths of female characters. I never specified what the women should look like, as I cast based on talent. I did not feature nudity in the script. I feel the deaths are appropriately disturbing without stepping into gratuitous. I would be honoured to discuss the script with you further if you have time. I feel the ‘punished for having sex’ trope is very much on its last legs but the desire to see hot women killed is here to stay. Everyone’s got their own reasons why but as long as you only desire to see it on screen and not in real life, that’s at least a good start. Love your videos. Look forward to the next one. Respect from the UK.
My friend is a male screenwriter and he was working on a movie about a woman struggling to make big decisions, having panic attacks and i had a long conversation/debate with him on why is his lead a woman? His point was that a good writer should know how to make a character regardless of gender, And he was offended when i said that he should stick to what he understands as an experience to make a more honest and powerful point. His movie was filled with crying on the bathroom floor and smoking 🫠
lmaooooo let me guess she was smoking in her underwear for some reason? because irl real women are ALWAYS smoking in our underwear when we're stressed, not like 17 layers of the baggiest clothes we can find fr fr
I was in film school and our character was a female doctor written by me. She was going through depression and they wanted to do a shot where she walked in her undies or she danced in her undies for some reason. I had to fight them hahaha what was the point? She's sad so she has to be sexy? I mean they genuinely think women are walking sexy dolls or muses even in their darkest days.
Is crying on the bathroom floor and smoking what he understands? Someone once quipped that "write what you know" results in an oversupply of novels about English professors contemplating adultery.
I believe I heard this somewhere before, but I can't remember (it's not an original idea of mine)... But I believe part of the "sex = death" trope's origins was a way for writers/directors to include sexual content and still get around the Hays Code. If sex was depicted as immoral and punished, you got to sneak it in. Eventually, it became standard practice/tropified. Also, speaking to film makers intentionally moralizing/punishing sexual behavior in film... William Peter Blatey, author of The Exorcist and producer on the film, was staunchly conservative and wanted to frame the events of the story as the consequences of the mother's actions/lifestyle. As a liberated, independent woman who neglected her duties as a wife and mother, she left her daughter vulnerable to the devil. I believe this falls into the "punishing beauty/sex leads to suffering" tropes pretty cleanly. William Friedkin, of course, strongly disagreed with this outlook and tried to reframe the situation in the film, but there's only so much you can do.
We’re so back! Despite a strong beginning, I hope this version will survive longer than the last. 10:20 i giggled like a lunatic at this, what a strange thing to say to someone Edit: and a sponsor!! Exciting!
The idea that a slasher villain kills the sexually active while the one virginal girl survives appears to be a conflation of two very different movies. In the original Halloween, Michael is going around killing anyone in his path, so he has no reason to spare Laurie for being a virgin (and she basically survives because she's less distracted). In the original Friday the 13th, the killer is explicitly killing camp counselors as punishment for fooling around rather than watching over kids, but the final girl is not at all a virgin but instead in a relationship with her boss, and we see her drinking & playing strip poker. I blame Scream for that conflation. I found it strange that you never mentioned that Last House on the Left is officially a (loose) remake of Ingmar Bergman's The Virgin Spring. Bergman's film was from a specifically male POV, since it was just the father who got revenge on the rapists/murderers. Craven changed it so that BOTH the father & mother take out the villains, making it less of a male perspective than you characterized. I don't assume that a woman who makes a film containing sexual assault has been assaulted herself. Directors making heightened movies about things they themselves haven't experienced happens all the time, and we don't need to begrudge them that as long as they do a good job.
I’ve always wanted to check out Galaxy of Terror, but I’ve been put off by its most infamous scene. Not just for its content, but that it’s in the film because Roger Corman had to appeal to different investors by promising one a nude scene and another that wanted an SA scene. So he combined both . . . with a giant maggot. No thanks.
I think that in general there are two main problems when it comes to problematic media: -The first is that of the prevalence of certain tropes or narratives, a lot of things that wouldn't be all that bad in isolation are an issue if they are ubiquitous, for example gay villains. -The second is how will the audience approach it. There really isn't much media that is actually "dangerous" if you consume it with your brain switched on, if you think critically about it. On the other hand a lot of seeming inoffensive mainstream stuff is full of subtle propaganda which you could passively absorb in huge amounts if you always consume it thoughtlessly. This second issue is only partially in the author's control. Most people have immoral thoughts, desires, or fantasies at least some of the time and in theory art is the safest way to explore those parts of human nature, not necessarily in the form a morality tale where the viewer is told explicitly what the correct way to think about it is. Of course nothing exists outside of the cultural context, and the author could at least try to present the topic in a way that stimulates further thought.
The way you were sitting while in the red dress was an interesting study. Here you were wearing a dress that can be considered sexy, in a color that calls to mind the femme fatale. Your legs were spread instead of crossed. But your posture was rebellious. You were in pose that should've been sexualized, but the way you slouched, the way the dress draped to show nothing- you look comfortable both physically and in who you are.
I'm not sure how much this contributes to the conversation, but I do wonder if (some) male writers and directors have similar intentions to the creators of The Help. Showing the extreme violence of what the more "deviant" women go through allows for the audience to understand the level of suffering female characters might be subjected to. In some ways, it might be worth considering how the notion of a final girl is a way for male directors to engage in their own form of heroism. While misguided, much like the intentions from The Help, perhaps for some directors, this allows them to play out their own kind of savior fantasy.
A) how brave of you to claim misogyny is bad! Bravo /lh B) but for the main point, I’ve always been super uncomfortable with depictions of SA or extreme violence in film (especially when it feels exploitative or just there for shock) I write horror, among other things, and I face zero challenges as a man writing horror avoiding such violence depicting women undergoing torture, sexualized or otherwise. Genuinely think the writers of that are comfortable doing that are letting their masks slip. There’s a definite intentionality there (and sure we’ll never know if Argento is as shady as it seems based on his comments or that he’s had his own daughter r*ped on screen more than once) but I think it says a lot how different it feels when it’s a woman showing that in her film versus a man
Just had your channel recommended today, and great stuff so far! I was wondering if you'd take a look at an old movie that had a massive impact on me when I caught it on late night TV in the early Nineties, that had effects that blew my mind at the time, but that I've been too fraidy-cat to revisit since... Society. This was probably my first experience of pure body horror, and I'm wondering if it still holds up today. I'm also aware that it's been sat on a pedestal in my mind for a long time for being representative of subversive, progressive movie making. I recently re-watched another old "classic" that I loved at the time, and to be fair, that has actually aged pretty well in the effects department. But boy, did it have some seriously dodgy misogynistic stuff going on when watched through a modern lens: the original Fright Night. The intro in particular is disturbingly "rakey."
I am a male writer and I write short horror fiction, and have employed using women as the main character. Often, I use first person, genderless, and even nameless, main characters (which is very interesting because so many readers then ask me about the stories and impose a female characterization onto the MC - maybe the mere act of victimhood is seen as feminizing?). I am not writing violent horror, per se, more psychological or paranormal. But, the times I've used women, it's been because I'm taking a more sensitive take on the story, and a man in the same role would, I feel, be a bit jarring to a reader, and then they'd be imposing some form of queerness onto the character, which I don't want muddying the story. These women in the stories are more contemplative, more in touch with how they're feeling about what is going on. A small example - a story starts with a character walking in the woods on a fall day, and I describe how she is running her hands along her scarf, feeling the tassels interlace with her fingers. This mechanic is simply to ground the reader into a position of really being connected with the MC in a sensory way before the story kicks off. But if that were a man, I know many readers, men especially, would call their sexuality into question, and I'm not trying to tell a queer story. Later, she encounters a group of spirits, and slowly looks over them. I feel like readers will more readily accept apprehensive inaction from a woman, whereas they may be screaming "come on, attack them" or something if it were a man. With women as characters, I can write a lot more freely, giving readers the emotional, sensory, and psychological adventure I'm trying to in a space where the character won't be harshly judged for it. I've only written two stories by my recollection where actual, expressed violence befalls a main character, and in both cases they are men, and enacted by genderless otherworldly forces. In one story I do include SA enacted by a man onto his wife, but only mentioned in passing - I wrote that when I was younger and hate that it is now in my body of work, but here we are. Hope you find some bit of interesting info in my reply to your question! Thanks so much for this video, and all of your content. I really love what you have to say about media and society, and how you express it. P.s. I just got Men, Women, and Chainsaws for Christmas and am so excited to dive in, so I lit up when you cited Carol Clover early on in the vid. :)
Excellent essay but I am going to push back on one thing. I think you are partly right about Paris Hilton in house of wax. but there was more to the hatred of her. It could be some people hated her for hyper femininity and sexual freedom...but some people hated her because of her insane wealth for seemingly doing nothing. There's a wealth and class disparity there for some people...I think. You're def. Right about sleep away camp though. I can't touch that one with a 50 foot pole re the portrayal of trans people...that's not my place but as someone bullied... the way the main bully was killed...that is still a gut punch. I DO NOT like her and felt the appropriate amount of anger to her but not THAT much. It was so s. Violent that as a fortunately non survivor of SA that still really upset me. I just don't understand wanting to portray that or enjoying watching that even if she sucks. That's not me trying to toot my own horn and saying "I'm better than you' but I LOVE horror...I'm just confused about that scene.
This is insane. A lot of people like to watch hot girls be the final girls/or be the big bad mastermind. That doesn’t work too well though, as it’s not believable for the most part. See real life situations where the girl stabbed her Mormon boyfriend or Megan Fox in that horror movie a decade or longer ago or some Buffy big bads. The problem is when the girls are primarily known for being hot. I know I’m sick of characters who are hot and accepted as being that character, but then a who subsection of fans want to put them on a pedestal as if they stand for something more. If you want to be known for more then do more with the role. It’s why Trash is a horror icon in The Return of the Living Dead. Her performance is strange unique.
Why do you pronounce your T’s like that? Is that a southerner thing? Jw. I’m doing my dissertation and genders representation in horror is a whole chapter. 30:26 in relation to this moment, carol clover explores psychosexuality in relation to the male viewer placing themselves not in the male aggressor in film but in the female final girl. So the intention could be in males exploring female victimisation. Horror films tend to place the male audience in the female characters shoes who versus the male aggressor.
I'm not a filmmaker, but I am a man and a horror fan. I think male directors depict scenes of women getting hurt or killed because they are operating on a sort of "trope autopilot," a narrative laziness that frames women as weak and vulnerable and men as strong and threatening; after all, their cinematic heroes, like Hitchcock and Craven did it, so they do it too, simply because they don't know any better. This explanation doesn't excuse those instances of actual misogyny, of course, but is more of a "Hanlon's Razor" argument - this trope is more a failure of imagination.
Interesting. As a horror fan I don't like to watch hot girls suffer. I like to watch final girls kick ass. But I was watching a video on horror the other day that said that the whole "horror hates women" trope is nothing but a myth and that in fact men are more likely to die in horror movies and also more likely to have more gruesome deaths. I have to find that video again to see if they have sources for that. If it's true, I wonder if we are more likely to be impacted by women's suffering in horror than men because we are used to men's lives being disposable due to war culture and society's expectations that men need to protect women. So we often see the boyfriend die first as the disposable sacrifice before the killer goes after the girl. Now that I think about it, we rarely get slashers with final boys.
This is dumb! They're hot because movie stars are hot. They don't generally hire uggos as movie stars! You probably wouldn't want to watch for very long otherwise, would you?
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Any corrections/additions will be pinned here. thank you so much for your support on this one!!!! xoxooxo
one thing about the horror genre I have always disliked is how frequently female characters are murdered in sexual ways/naked/or scantily clad, meanwhile their male counterparts are never shown being killed in anything less than full clothing. The misogyny and gratuitous violence against women is very telling
I sometimes feel like horror fans (including myself) as a collective don’t discuss the effects of misogyny and femicide themes within the horror genre enough. It always bothers me how throughout the Scream franchise, Sidney’s mother Maureen is always slut shamed/victim blamed and talked down upon because of her extramarital promiscuity. But no one talks about how she most likely became problematically hypersexual because she developed trauma from being sexually abused by Hollywood directors/producers which was revealed in Scream 3.
So...they did mention it!
Reason why I avoid slashers in general.
@@madbyinstinct pfff! You're more of an "Elevated" viewer, I take it? 🤣
@Nicolas.Vincent 33 comments? Dang you're so obsessed with this channel
I hate how much censorship has taken over in recent years. We should be able to say sex, rape and porn in order to discuss such things! As usual a detailed and astute video essay, I hope you are able to continue to create more in the future
As a child, I always wondered why women in horror films (even the side characters) were subjected to more gruesome fates than their male counterparts. Reflecting on it now as an adult/writer it’s clear that it stems from the societal norms of the time and the fact that most directors were men catering to the male gaze. And because culture often imitates art, this cycle likely played a role in reinforcing the objectification of women during that era. It’s fascinating and a bit unsettling to think that only recently have we begun to challenge these portrayals with films like Midsommar and Hereditary that allow their female characters to exist as fully realized individuals instead of being confined to the look of their bodies
That's not true.
@ how so?
@@Nyzahnewton both suffer, not any one to more of a degree than the other. That's a total stereotyped and sexist talking point around the Genre that has never been proven true! It's as if Conservative Mother's groups or Genre Poseurs made that up, even though if you've ever been an actual fan of the Genre, you can plainly see that that's simply untrue. She even says so in this video. In fact, mostly a "Girl" lives and defeats the Villain! Ladies have it easier in Horror! If there are hella misogynistic Horror flicks out there that prove it, where's the list? There isn't one because it's simply not true, as pearl clutching as it's always been presented, it's simply not true.
@@Nyzahnewton both suffer, not any one to more of a degree than the other. That's a total stereotyped and seqist talking point around the Genre that has never been proven true! It's as if Conservative Mother's groups or Genre Poseurs made that up, even though if you've ever been an actual fan of the Genre, you can plainly see that that's simply untrue. She even says so in this video. In fact, mostly a "Girl" lives and defeats the Villain! Ladies have it easier in Horror!
If there are hella misogynistic Horror flicks out there that prove it, where's the list? There isn't one because it's simply not true, as pearl clutching as it's always been presented, it's simply not true.
@@Nyzahnewton both suffer, not any one to more of a degree than the other. That's a total stereotyped and seqist talking point around the Genre that has never been proven true! It's as if ConservaTrash Mother's groups or Genre Poseurs made that up, even though if you've ever been an actual fan of the Genre, you can plainly see that that's simply untrue. She even says so in this video. In fact, mostly a "Girl" lives and defeats the Villain! Ladies have it easier in Horror!
If there are hella miso. g. yn. istic Horror flicks out there that prove it, where's the list? There isn't one because it's simply not true, as pearl clutching as it's always been presented, it's simply not true.
I always said that the Terrifier series had a lot of misogynistic undertones because the women were always getting the most disgusting, brutal, mean-spirited deaths are the women. But people online said that was a just a Twitter take lol
Exactly terrifier with the woman fully naked made me uncomfortable
I totally agree!! I'm a huge fan of horror, especially gore and practical effects, but something about Terrifer really irked me. Like it has every thing that I would like in theory, but it just feels some much more meanspirited than any other """torture porn""" movie I've seen
THANK YOU for this.
Guess you haven’t seen the 3rd one, which has way more male kills including the most brutal one.
Sorry TH-cam censors you so much! Really well done video, as usual. I do think the revenge point hits hard-especially when linked with misogyny. It's often forgotten that women can also internalize misogyny too, so we can even celebrate the downfall/redrum of a popular girl, like a "bring them down a peg" revenge
i'm kinda surprised i haven't seen anyone use the phrase "hot girl suffer" before, it's a clever pun for a horror comedy
As a writer and male survivor of SA I normally don't see the point in writing specifically about this. We all know it's horrible, so if it needs to be included at all I find the mere implication that such an act has taken place more effective than just showing it. Being something most people are afraid of happening I understand wanting to use it to capitalize on that common fear, however I normally write to connect with people. And I know for a fact that it is not polite to force such a scene on anyone, yet alone those who have actually experienced it.
That incel rant screenshot you showed was horrifying. I paused to read the whole thing. Holy crap, that person is suffering so much inside their own brain, they don't even know what reality is anymore. It's genuinely scary and very, very sad. It immediately drew my mind back to the movie "Men" (jut came from that video lol), and how men are so often the architects of their own suffering. I hope the man that wrote that is able to find some sort of peace and happiness, for his sake as well as everyone else's.
Re: I Spit On Your Grave (the original anyway), Meir Zarchi actually was inspired to make it after he and his daughter helped rescue a woman who'd just been the victim of an assault. They took her to the police first in the hopes of preventing her attackers hurting more people by reporting them, and were shocked at the dismissive and callous way the police treated her (the woman's jaw had literally been broken). So the film was essentially a story about a woman who got justice for herself. Of course it's still a male director telling someone else's story, but at the very least Camille Keaton was protected and taken care of throughout the film, and the male actors volunteered to also appear nude for the scene to show solidarity to her, and she herself continues to defend the film.
Then again, I dabble in directing, and I can't say it's a choice I myself would make. I'm a 'less is more' sort of person and more of the 'what you don't see is scarier'. There was one film my then-filmmaking group wanted to make, and a group of other people pitching ideas (all 40+ men btw) wanted a scene like that or aspects of SA in the story, and I was the writer, so I basically wrote it in there with my character being the one it happened to because there was no way I wanted to ask anyone else to have to perform that (little did I know I was subconsciously working through repressed memories of an SA I'd experienced)
Someone else pointed out to me that horror tends to be rooted in 'morality play' in the same way that fairy tales were - basically the horror is brought on the characters by their own transgressions. And in the minds of a lot of 70s and 80s writers, that would be promiscuity. But I've noticed that since most of the slashers were imitating the likes of Halloween and Friday the 13th, they borrowed the plot beats without the nuance. In Halloween, Carpenter and Hill said that the kids fooling around was why they were distracted and easier for Michael to get, whereas Laurie is by herself so she saw him coming - and the transgression there is less premarital sex than Annie foisting the girl she's supposed to be babysitting onto Laurie so she can fool around with her boyfriend, and then Bob and Lynda doing it in someone else's house (and they were planning to do so when a child was downstairs). Friday the 13th also had it as part of the killer's motivations that Mrs Voorhees blames two counsellors for fooling around while Jason was drowning, and so that's why the killings are sexually motivated. But the imitators just saw 'hot people boinking and then getting killed', forgetting the context.
And it's also likely that the 80s stuff was selling itself on cheap titillation that you weren't getting in mainstream movies, so trying to draw horny teenagers to the movies in the hopes of seeing nudity in a socially acceptable setting, since it was pre-internet. Later when VHS came along, these lower tier movies were made for the purpose of selling better on home video, especially since the back cover would tell you exactly what you were going to get with the ratings system
wait but that dress ur wearing is EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!
👗💕✨
Re: Dario Argento/Suspiria, as much as I appreciate Argento's work and the giallo genre as a whole, I couldn't help but notice how heavily sexualized women are portrayed in most of giallo movies, especially their deaths - much more so than in Hollywood, I would say.
consistently such a wonderful, articulate, and well-researched channel... always a delight to watch a new video
on the censorship thing: i'd totally recommend doing like a patreon thingy or something and putting uncensored/complete versions of videos on there (no clue what im talking abt but i know other channels do something similar)
I’m a weird horror fan. I’ve literally never watched a horror film hoping to see anyone suffer. That is to say I accept and expect it as thing that happens to people in horror. But I’m not expressly seeking out to see people *degraded* and tortured, especially women.
Depends. If you go out to watch horror focused on gore....then torture is not something "you expect" but something you actively chose. Lets be honest, people dont watch saw for the great story or "moral complexity". They like to see how many gruesome ways there are to make people suffer.
@ Gore isn’t always degrading someone. Not every gory death is does that.
Your scripting and analysis are impeccable and thought provoking as per usual, but I have to admit that it's hard to take this as seriously when all of these poignant thoughts are jarringly described using self-censors like "socks" and "rake." I get it bc, TH-cam, but still... otherwise, great as usual!!
You're one of my favorites! As a female horror fan ypu cover this content so well!! Love all your videos ❤
I love your analysis and how much research you put into your videos. I think for some women and girls (myself included as a teen who was eternally bullied and unpopular), there's a strong notion of jealousy around "hot" women, so we enjoy watching their murder because it makes us feel better about feeling like we don't meet that standard of hotness/popularity ourselves. As if we're "justified" in not being hot or popular since that's often punished, while the "less attractive/popular" final girl still suffers (mirroring our own feelings of suffering directly at the hands of hot girls, or in directly through media and societal pressures to conform to certain beauty standards) she is ultimately vindicated by being allowed to live whilst the hot and popular girl dies brutally.
i loved this video and i love all ur insights in general! just love ur takes so much - so happy to have found this channel. I just watched night bitch and i thought it was incredibly well done and said a lot about the female experience and motherhood and how woman are represented in media - i just thought it was a great way to tackle a tough topic. I would love to hear ur take on that (p.s. Barbie could be a cool connection)
Sponsorship yay!! I love your content!
Surfshark come through! 🎉
Going back to films 10+ years ago reveals how much things have changed recently for women. ESP in the horror genre. Things aren’t perfect but I’m always shocked when I watch a 2000s horror or comedy because there HAS to be a scene of the typically male protagonist’s girlfriend or crush in a bra/bikini.
Not to forget the black best friend of the girlfriend/crush who is killed quickly and it’s always framed like she deserves it for being loud. She usually embodies the angry black woman trope.
An amazing re-analysis ❤
I have nothing of real value to add except to say that I’m so glad I found your channel. Brava!
just wanted to give massive thanks - i'm a filmmaker and still trying to make sense of why so many of my self-penned treatments / screenplays / music videos gravitate so much around innocently presented maiden figures losing their minds or in peril or ultimately meeting untimely demises.
i don't totally believe my slant is leaning towards exploitation cinema, but i also can't help but note that i SO OFTEN err towards writing female roles and even in certain cases openly avoiding writing male roles as they so disinterest me (most recently, i've decided to cast the only male role in a piece to be played by a female / female-presenting actor). despite not entirely being heterotypical myself, it's still a bemusing thing for me that makes me wonder about what i might be perpetuating. essays like this do feel like there is some further light / clarity being provided to a particularly murky area of my own introspection and possible censure.
as my wife just pointed out though; part of my feeling or weirdness in this also i believe relates to my favourite author (william joseph martin, historically having also written under the name poppy z brite) who, prior to his transition a few years ago, amazed me by being able to write about the male homosexual experience SO accurately on such a visceral and physical level and in so doing made me realise that i wasn't 100% straight. i ABSOLUTELY cannot write the female experience with direct authority or experience, but i can try and learn as much as i can from those prepared to tell me about it, and have thankfully done a fair bit, yet still... here i am writing about women suffering in ways that most intrigue me.
IS that indeed, in me, a sadistic relationship with female suffering or simply an adherence to an aesthetic that i've been immersed in and worked professionally within for decades (through death metal & goth in music and then many forms of horror, comedy & drama in film)? i can't as yet say, conclusively.
may I just say the outfits are absolutely slaying in this one 💯
This is really good. Thanks for sharing the references in the description.🎉🎉🎉🎉
Is this your first sponsor? Congrats! Great video as always. It’s about time you get more notice.
Awesome content. Really well rounded analysis. Please keep the content going please.
I used to write a lot of short horror stories when I was 19 through 22 years old. When I was 23 I met a girl who became a very close friend and to whom I showed some of these stories.
She told me I was a good writer, but that I was writing about experiences I cound't fathom, for I was not a woman. Today I look back at this moment and I'm ever grateful to it.
Before that point in my life I had never been in a relationship and also had feelings of rejection, just like the ones described by incels. When I wrote women in my stories, I used references (mostly the mainstream men directed horror movies and horror books) in which female characters being tortured (both mentally and phisically) seemed like a "okay" trope on a fictional work.
I'm really grateful that my friend brought that up and didn't let me think that I was right, or worse: thinking that it was "genius."
Today I identify as a gender fluid person, learning more and more about the different experiences people go through, and most important of all, experiences that women go through. I can only hope that my efforts in learning more about feminist theory and queer theory will help me be more empathetic of women and more vigilant of their representation in horror cinema.
As for my writing: I mostly write poetry now, and my wife loves it: it's mostly about her being my goddess, and that femininity is divine.
Excellent video, as always. Love your work, thank you. ❤
I love your videos so much! I consider myself a deep thinker, so your content is right up my alley. This is such an interesting topic that I feel people haven’t given much thought to. You did such a good job breaking it down!!
From a cliche that got parodies in comedies and actual horrors as well, you made some interesting points. I'm also a big fan of Craven and the more I find out about him the more I feel I can appreciate his skiils and vision but albo should still feel the need to criticise his works as in analyse them and put them in cultural context. Actually, one of Polish youtubers who does film reviews and video essays made a point that r*pe and se*ual a*ault in Scream 3 alludes to the fact that Craven foind out about Weinstein's crimes and him being related to production of Scream franchise, Craven wanted to make a point about s*xual a*use in film business in this movie
This made me think of the ryona fetish... I remember falling into a very deep TH-cam rabbit hole where there are tons of compilations of vídeo game female characters getting killed... Very effed up.
Love watching your videos!! Also LOVE The Last Dinner Party!
Great video! I wish you’d spent more time exploring your last point about the benevolent sexism of women being used as a device for drawing out more empathy from the audience
Ka rawe ngā mahi, e hoa. 😀 Loooooove your work. Loved you strapping on, but also... Is that a sharps container on your mantlepiece? Please do a video about everything on said mantlepiece? It looks like a few fascinating talismans live on it.
Engagement comment!!! Love you!
So here's another thought i had about certain horror movies, where female characters get brutalized. What if in these films the women/girls being brutalized is the element of the film's horror because of the nature of the victims? This is why films like Jack Ketchum's The Girl Next Door, or even the Last house on the Left (the remake) disturb me so much. The girls in both movies were genuinely nice people, Meg and Mari are almost Disney Princess-like in their characters, unlike Chris or Tina from Carrie. You see them do nice things, Mari hanging out with the socially awkward boy, and Meg connecting with the male lead in a genuinely wholesome way. So when fate comes down on both of them without mercy it is horrifying to stomach, it is like a PTSD effect, a disaster while objectively horrifying is made even more so when a best friend or a family member or someone you connected with, is involved in it.
engagement algo appeasement interaction engagement algo appeasement cheerio!
I always enjoy your videos!
Always hyped when I see you’ve posted a new video.
I think I’ve said this before on your video and I’m glad you touched on this in the video, I honestly think the major reason why a lot of filmmakers do horrendously violent things to beautiful women is because it will trigger the greatest emotional response from the audience. A beautiful woman is the most desirable entity for an awful lot of people so to see one hurt or killed in horrifically violent ways is what will upset and stay with a majority of people.
I totally agree with your statement on beauty standards in Hollywood. They’re atrocious and have robbed the world of a great deal of talent because the person “didn’t look right”. It’s awful and I hope to see it gone as soon as possible.
Your piece on incels was excellent about the terrifying possibilities of misogynistic horror crossing over from the screen to the real world. I perfectly understand the desire to mock and fear incels but truly, I’d like to help them. I think their biggest problem is misguidance by fellow paranoid losers and how if they could be spoken to in real life a lot of them could be helped. No in their online forums and boards are telling them their theories and beliefs on women are bullshit and if they cleaned themselves and used politeness, respect and charm instead of violence, they might just be in with a chance of forming a meaningful relationship with someone.
I myself am a screenwriter and have written a slasher film which feature deaths of female characters. I never specified what the women should look like, as I cast based on talent. I did not feature nudity in the script. I feel the deaths are appropriately disturbing without stepping into gratuitous. I would be honoured to discuss the script with you further if you have time.
I feel the ‘punished for having sex’ trope is very much on its last legs but the desire to see hot women killed is here to stay. Everyone’s got their own reasons why but as long as you only desire to see it on screen and not in real life, that’s at least a good start.
Love your videos. Look forward to the next one. Respect from the UK.
My friend is a male screenwriter and he was working on a movie about a woman struggling to make big decisions, having panic attacks and i had a long conversation/debate with him on why is his lead a woman? His point was that a good writer should know how to make a character regardless of gender, And he was offended when i said that he should stick to what he understands as an experience to make a more honest and powerful point. His movie was filled with crying on the bathroom floor and smoking 🫠
lmaooooo let me guess she was smoking in her underwear for some reason? because irl real women are ALWAYS smoking in our underwear when we're stressed, not like 17 layers of the baggiest clothes we can find fr fr
@@AdaBlack-w7l no it was a panic attack caused by a job crisis, he thought that whenever a woman face a situation she'd cry and panic
I was in film school and our character was a female doctor written by me. She was going through depression and they wanted to do a shot where she walked in her undies or she danced in her undies for some reason. I had to fight them hahaha what was the point? She's sad so she has to be sexy?
I mean they genuinely think women are walking sexy dolls or muses even in their darkest days.
Is crying on the bathroom floor and smoking what he understands?
Someone once quipped that "write what you know" results in an oversupply of novels about English professors contemplating adultery.
Maybe that is the way he feels inside?
Great video once again
Becaus we envious!
Can't leave the comment I would like due to my being late, but I wanted to leave a comment for engagement. Love your vids!
No wonder Disney turned out Hitchcock's offers to work with him.
I believe I heard this somewhere before, but I can't remember (it's not an original idea of mine)... But I believe part of the "sex = death" trope's origins was a way for writers/directors to include sexual content and still get around the Hays Code. If sex was depicted as immoral and punished, you got to sneak it in. Eventually, it became standard practice/tropified.
Also, speaking to film makers intentionally moralizing/punishing sexual behavior in film... William Peter Blatey, author of The Exorcist and producer on the film, was staunchly conservative and wanted to frame the events of the story as the consequences of the mother's actions/lifestyle. As a liberated, independent woman who neglected her duties as a wife and mother, she left her daughter vulnerable to the devil. I believe this falls into the "punishing beauty/sex leads to suffering" tropes pretty cleanly.
William Friedkin, of course, strongly disagreed with this outlook and tried to reframe the situation in the film, but there's only so much you can do.
We’re so back! Despite a strong beginning, I hope this version will survive longer than the last.
10:20 i giggled like a lunatic at this, what a strange thing to say to someone
Edit: and a sponsor!! Exciting!
Me and my gramma luv it
The idea that a slasher villain kills the sexually active while the one virginal girl survives appears to be a conflation of two very different movies. In the original Halloween, Michael is going around killing anyone in his path, so he has no reason to spare Laurie for being a virgin (and she basically survives because she's less distracted). In the original Friday the 13th, the killer is explicitly killing camp counselors as punishment for fooling around rather than watching over kids, but the final girl is not at all a virgin but instead in a relationship with her boss, and we see her drinking & playing strip poker. I blame Scream for that conflation.
I found it strange that you never mentioned that Last House on the Left is officially a (loose) remake of Ingmar Bergman's The Virgin Spring. Bergman's film was from a specifically male POV, since it was just the father who got revenge on the rapists/murderers. Craven changed it so that BOTH the father & mother take out the villains, making it less of a male perspective than you characterized.
I don't assume that a woman who makes a film containing sexual assault has been assaulted herself. Directors making heightened movies about things they themselves haven't experienced happens all the time, and we don't need to begrudge them that as long as they do a good job.
I have faith in your knowledge, it's obvious you've done your research. Thank you for another fear provoking video.
I’ve always wanted to check out Galaxy of Terror, but I’ve been put off by its most infamous scene.
Not just for its content, but that it’s in the film because Roger Corman had to appeal to different investors by promising one a nude scene and another that wanted an SA scene.
So he combined both . . . with a giant maggot.
No thanks.
real ones were here from the beginning
I read the title at least five times "Why do we like to watch hot girls surf?" x)
I think that in general there are two main problems when it comes to problematic media:
-The first is that of the prevalence of certain tropes or narratives, a lot of things that wouldn't be all that bad in isolation are an issue if they are ubiquitous, for example gay villains.
-The second is how will the audience approach it. There really isn't much media that is actually "dangerous" if you consume it with your brain switched on, if you think critically about it. On the other hand a lot of seeming inoffensive mainstream stuff is full of subtle propaganda which you could passively absorb in huge amounts if you always consume it thoughtlessly. This second issue is only partially in the author's control.
Most people have immoral thoughts, desires, or fantasies at least some of the time and in theory art is the safest way to explore those parts of human nature, not necessarily in the form a morality tale where the viewer is told explicitly what the correct way to think about it is.
Of course nothing exists outside of the cultural context, and the author could at least try to present the topic in a way that stimulates further thought.
The way you were sitting while in the red dress was an interesting study. Here you were wearing a dress that can be considered sexy, in a color that calls to mind the femme fatale. Your legs were spread instead of crossed. But your posture was rebellious. You were in pose that should've been sexualized, but the way you slouched, the way the dress draped to show nothing- you look comfortable both physically and in who you are.
I'm not sure how much this contributes to the conversation, but I do wonder if (some) male writers and directors have similar intentions to the creators of The Help. Showing the extreme violence of what the more "deviant" women go through allows for the audience to understand the level of suffering female characters might be subjected to. In some ways, it might be worth considering how the notion of a final girl is a way for male directors to engage in their own form of heroism. While misguided, much like the intentions from The Help, perhaps for some directors, this allows them to play out their own kind of savior fantasy.
A) how brave of you to claim misogyny is bad! Bravo /lh
B) but for the main point, I’ve always been super uncomfortable with depictions of SA or extreme violence in film (especially when it feels exploitative or just there for shock)
I write horror, among other things, and I face zero challenges as a man writing horror avoiding such violence depicting women undergoing torture, sexualized or otherwise.
Genuinely think the writers of that are comfortable doing that are letting their masks slip. There’s a definite intentionality there (and sure we’ll never know if Argento is as shady as it seems based on his comments or that he’s had his own daughter r*ped on screen more than once) but I think it says a lot how different it feels when it’s a woman showing that in her film versus a man
Just had your channel recommended today, and great stuff so far!
I was wondering if you'd take a look at an old movie that had a massive impact on me when I caught it on late night TV in the early Nineties, that had effects that blew my mind at the time, but that I've been too fraidy-cat to revisit since... Society.
This was probably my first experience of pure body horror, and I'm wondering if it still holds up today.
I'm also aware that it's been sat on a pedestal in my mind for a long time for being representative of subversive, progressive movie making.
I recently re-watched another old "classic" that I loved at the time, and to be fair, that has actually aged pretty well in the effects department. But boy, did it have some seriously dodgy misogynistic stuff going on when watched through a modern lens: the original Fright Night.
The intro in particular is disturbingly "rakey."
pleeeeaaase drop the link for that flowery sweater😭 i need fr
Yes! ❤
I am a male writer and I write short horror fiction, and have employed using women as the main character. Often, I use first person, genderless, and even nameless, main characters (which is very interesting because so many readers then ask me about the stories and impose a female characterization onto the MC - maybe the mere act of victimhood is seen as feminizing?). I am not writing violent horror, per se, more psychological or paranormal. But, the times I've used women, it's been because I'm taking a more sensitive take on the story, and a man in the same role would, I feel, be a bit jarring to a reader, and then they'd be imposing some form of queerness onto the character, which I don't want muddying the story. These women in the stories are more contemplative, more in touch with how they're feeling about what is going on. A small example - a story starts with a character walking in the woods on a fall day, and I describe how she is running her hands along her scarf, feeling the tassels interlace with her fingers. This mechanic is simply to ground the reader into a position of really being connected with the MC in a sensory way before the story kicks off. But if that were a man, I know many readers, men especially, would call their sexuality into question, and I'm not trying to tell a queer story. Later, she encounters a group of spirits, and slowly looks over them. I feel like readers will more readily accept apprehensive inaction from a woman, whereas they may be screaming "come on, attack them" or something if it were a man. With women as characters, I can write a lot more freely, giving readers the emotional, sensory, and psychological adventure I'm trying to in a space where the character won't be harshly judged for it.
I've only written two stories by my recollection where actual, expressed violence befalls a main character, and in both cases they are men, and enacted by genderless otherworldly forces. In one story I do include SA enacted by a man onto his wife, but only mentioned in passing - I wrote that when I was younger and hate that it is now in my body of work, but here we are.
Hope you find some bit of interesting info in my reply to your question!
Thanks so much for this video, and all of your content. I really love what you have to say about media and society, and how you express it.
P.s. I just got Men, Women, and Chainsaws for Christmas and am so excited to dive in, so I lit up when you cited Carol Clover early on in the vid. :)
Great video.
Excellent essay but I am going to push back on one thing. I think you are partly right about Paris Hilton in house of wax. but there was more to the hatred of her. It could be some people hated her for hyper femininity and sexual freedom...but some people hated her because of her insane wealth for seemingly doing nothing. There's a wealth and class disparity there for some people...I think. You're def. Right about sleep away camp though. I can't touch that one with a 50 foot pole re the portrayal of trans people...that's not my place but as someone bullied... the way the main bully was killed...that is still a gut punch. I DO NOT like her and felt the appropriate amount of anger to her but not THAT much. It was so s. Violent that as a fortunately non survivor of SA that still really upset me. I just don't understand wanting to portray that or enjoying watching that even if she sucks. That's not me trying to toot my own horn and saying "I'm better than you' but I LOVE horror...I'm just confused about that scene.
Does anyone know if she has patreon and/or posts uncensored videos on another platform ?
This is insane. A lot of people like to watch hot girls be the final girls/or be the big bad mastermind. That doesn’t work too well though, as it’s not believable for the most part. See real life situations where the girl stabbed her Mormon boyfriend or Megan Fox in that horror movie a decade or longer ago or some Buffy big bads. The problem is when the girls are primarily known for being hot. I know I’m sick of characters who are hot and accepted as being that character, but then a who subsection of fans want to put them on a pedestal as if they stand for something more. If you want to be known for more then do more with the role. It’s why Trash is a horror icon in The Return of the Living Dead. Her performance is strange unique.
Why do you pronounce your T’s like that? Is that a southerner thing? Jw. I’m doing my dissertation and genders representation in horror is a whole chapter. 30:26 in relation to this moment, carol clover explores psychosexuality in relation to the male viewer placing themselves not in the male aggressor in film but in the female final girl. So the intention could be in males exploring female victimisation. Horror films tend to place the male audience in the female characters shoes who versus the male aggressor.
Your pet dear doesn't move much.
I'm not a filmmaker, but I am a man and a horror fan. I think male directors depict scenes of women getting hurt or killed because they are operating on a sort of "trope autopilot," a narrative laziness that frames women as weak and vulnerable and men as strong and threatening; after all, their cinematic heroes, like Hitchcock and Craven did it, so they do it too, simply because they don't know any better. This explanation doesn't excuse those instances of actual misogyny, of course, but is more of a "Hanlon's Razor" argument - this trope is more a failure of imagination.
Interesting. As a horror fan I don't like to watch hot girls suffer. I like to watch final girls kick ass. But I was watching a video on horror the other day that said that the whole "horror hates women" trope is nothing but a myth and that in fact men are more likely to die in horror movies and also more likely to have more gruesome deaths. I have to find that video again to see if they have sources for that. If it's true, I wonder if we are more likely to be impacted by women's suffering in horror than men because we are used to men's lives being disposable due to war culture and society's expectations that men need to protect women. So we often see the boyfriend die first as the disposable sacrifice before the killer goes after the girl. Now that I think about it, we rarely get slashers with final boys.
Please work on your audio
Nope, wrong, sorry. As a hot guy, I like to see hot girls.. opposite of suffer..
This is dumb! They're hot because movie stars are hot. They don't generally hire uggos as movie stars! You probably wouldn't want to watch for very long otherwise, would you?
it's literally the first point she brings up....
@Jidashia yeah, I hadn't finished watching. Thanks for pointing it out 🏆
true gorehounds dont care. we here for the carnage
I have to disagree. I have seen enough average or even below average looking men in staring roles.
@lexa2310 especially if they're jewish!
Let’s create some engagement on this updated video my brothers, tell me once again about Australia not being flat 🫡
Really impressed that adorable doe in your room was able to stare at the camera for so long without blinking or moving.