I work as a MTB instructor and I think your advice is top notch, very well explained as well! I moved away from consciously dropping the outside foot and it makes a world of difference :)
You are the ONLY coach that clarifies the key point, that level pedals are level with the horizon, regardless to the angle of the bike, which I found to be the biggest key to my cornering. 👌
@@mountainbikeacademy I noticed on more than a couple of stills that the riders did indeed have their outside foot in the lowered position. I guess I missed the part where it was emphasized that the pedals should always? be level with the horizon? Is this regardless of a corner with or without a berm?
This is a cornering guide for intermediate riders. Love it! Thank you! I have figured this stuff out to a large degree through trial and error (blood, sweat, and a little bit of tears). Yes, people underestimate how important core muscles are. A strong core allows one to “float” over the bars, move their arms/bars without necessarily shifting weight which is crucial.
Watched this morning, tried out in Willingen Bikepark and blown it! Instand wayy faster cornering! Watching your video improved my skillz instantly, THANK YOU!
As an ex motorcycle road racer, I started mtb cornering with a hang off style. Lasted a few corners. Quickly adopted a less body lean technique. Then went full on lean the bike and float the cg as needed to balance cornering forces and traction. Level pedals make for easy cg shifts fore/after. Dropped outside pedal sort of forces a fixed for/after center of gravity and thus a fixed contact pressure. Not ideal. Love hearing this discussed.
Thank you - yeah going from motorcycles is way way different But I bet you intuitively get countersteer better than most! Thanks very much for the convo!
@mountainbikeacademy 100%. And using the front brake. Not having a powered rear wheel to manage contact pressure balance and shock compression changes things, but I learned to adapt. Thinking about all that, probably why I tend to run a hard rear tire and softer front. Most of the cornering force is through the rear wheel and the front is more like a tiller, pointing the way. 🤔
Mtb is more like MX than motorbike roadracing. Important diff is in MX you grab the bike with legs. In MTB you actually giving the bike space between legs and bike is a fraction weight of MX bike. The body form and weight transfer, distribution matters much more. This one is excelent video!!
I'm outside on my bike riding home, and decided to listen to your video while I ride. Your tips are very helpful! I did feel more stable in the lower areas of the bike having pedals even with the ground and pedal pressing while cornering. Outside pedal down didn't have me feeling anymore at an advantage when cornering, and on the trails, I was always worried about my outside pedal hitting a root (which has happened before). Having my torso down and open definitely helped me corner faster; It was immediately noticable. Torso up and opem while down low is also a tip for proper form when doing any type of dead lifts also, so I've mastered that position. Great tips.
In the early 90’s , before snowboarding was allowed; yearning for a challenge on my alpine skills, I taught myself how to telemark backcountry ski. In the off-season, on the same slopes I’d mimic the telemark stance riding my bike. It clicked. I’ve been riding swiftly through turns since. For me, the outside leg pegged out style came from imitating dirt track / moto style and all of the old school BMX magazine photos of racers coasting the track berms. It works fine on a smooth surface but once undulations from the inevitable ruts, roots or rocks disturb your balance point , it’s tough to manage the catfight going on between your legs when you’re holding yourself up on a hyperextended stick which is the closest appendage to the downhill tumble. You’ve articulated all of the mechanics very well and have helped me realize that I’ve been lazy about these fundamentals when I’m just cruising around. Not anymore thanks to you. Timely tips ‘cause I just let a new filly into the barn and I’m smitten. Dude, She’s a 27.5 PLUS size , disc brakin’ , 4130 steel is real kurvey klunker thoroughbred that I’ve got life changing plans fer. A bit of more work and I’ll be able to get her an operation in the hindquarters by some techs called Tubus & Rohloff. Then, that’s what I’m gonna do. Load Up & Roll Off to my grand state’s Arizona Trail MTB route. 800 miles from the international fence, traversing northward through Sky island mountain retreats from the scorching desert passage until the way is intercepted by a certain canyon that despite every yearning fiber in my body, my instant original childhood thought when peering down the trailhead on our first family visit… Nope. You’re not allowed to ride your bike down the Grand Canyon. Bummer eh? I’ve daydreamed countless hours for bypassing such restrictions involving a stealth lead painted enduro MTB with a silent hub. infrared shielding camo outfit, night vision and a pack-raft. However rules be damned. Not on this mission. The name of the game is what I believe gentlemen refer to as a portage or brutes may call a ruck. We shall she where I land on the spectrum. One must disassemble their ride and throw the beast on the back for a down and up stroll. To then reassemble and loiter on up to the Utah state line. I’m proud to know that it is the most rugged major scenic thru-trail in the nation. Taking it easy, looking ahead to where I want to go and positive control on points of contact will help me from getting bucked and stranded. Baby chicks in the hand. Bracing pressure on the pedals. Training on the current rigid BMX single speed setup has been terrifically simple and direct which has really helped me tune into fundamentals that 160mm travel rigs are lenient to discipline. It just makes sense to spread the load to more muscle, more joints absorbing the obstacles. In any athletic activity , being in your ready position is rule#1 As Chubbs said, “It’s all in the hips.”
In meinen Augen sind deine tutorials die besten !! Bei denen Erklärungen fühle ich was du genau damit meinst !! Einfach richtig super Erklärt!! Top Top ....😊
I started doing this after seeing your previous video on riding level and just flicking the bike back and forth under you into hard corners, banked curves, etc. It completely changed my riding and was a huge level up.
Great information!!! I think a lot of people are in the same category like myself as far as we are just average people on local trails trying to MTB better. The most things you tend to see is bike park pros doing all sorts of tricks and flips while the rest of us are looking for small victories. Thanks for thinking about us that haven’t figured out the intermediate skills yet.👍🏻
Your videos rule and have helped me immensely. As a beginner the fundamental game changer for me was my head and eyes positioned into the exit of the corner vs. at the front wheel contact point. This video is probably meant to be intermediate and that’s a super basic thing? I’ve been digging my outside foot into the turn and can’t wait to practice this.
Dropping the foot has also some advantages. You get lower by the lenght of the crank. If you have short legs then its easier to lean the bike because its not blocked by the saddle. Yes, level pedals give you more stability side to side, but front to back not that much. You stand on both feet but the cranks rotate around the bottom bracket. I think it's the personal preference. I've tried level pedals but I've failed. I corner much better with the fluid pedal movement and dropping the outside foot on the apex of the turn. Maybe it's the muscle memory from the skiing?
I only drop my foot on flat or off camber turns, or sharper turns. It feels like it digs the tires into the ground better so I get more grip and carry the most speed. If I’m on a banked turn, level pedals feel more athletic and balanced and enable me to carry my momentum and attack the turn with the most speed. I tend to agree with him.
Fair enough! What you might not realize is that you're probably weighting both pedals and creating the platform I'm talking about, just with a bit more movement of the cranks! So I'd argue you're achieving the same end goal that I'm encouraging people to try for, good work. And hey- if something works for you keep doing it! :) Cheers and thanks for the convo !
I do too! Have you ever tried weighting the inside foot on off camber a bit to get more bite from the side knobs? Totally crazy tip I got from a WC downhiller. I never would have tried it as off camber scares me lol.
@@mountainbikeacademy I can't recall what I am doing on off-camber with my feet. And do you mean going straight on off-camber traverse or off-camber turns? The first ones I just ride in a position like if I was turning up the terrain and bike does the rest. But since I am not hitting the roots and rocks with the pedals then I suppose I have the feet level. Ha! For the off-camber turns - I don't think there are any at the trails I ride. Maybe they are but I don't struggle with them so i did not remember it, I just turn like on the flat turns.
I'm a bit new to this but I did a lot of messing around during the evening, out with my dog. And I found out that whenever I feel stuck going into a corner, it's because I haven't commited by really opening up my inside hip and knee, and then bringing my outside knee into the frame, almost like I'm trying to push the frame over with my leg. As soon as I noticed that, I was able to corner way better. Definitely have a strong core from weightlifting so that helps. Also love riding with a wedge and more level pedals just because of all the roots and rocks. Level pedals is just my ready for anything position. So yeah, weirdly I can follow most of what you're saying. And from a psychological perspective, that open chest does something in our heads that immediately allows us to feel more like things are ok. I'm a female rider so I use that a lot to help stay calm in more sketchy terrain. Cool video! Hopefully it helps so riders have more fun in corners!
Really thoughtful comment and I TOTALLY know what you mean - one of those photos I put in to demo maybe not quite so much what to do I totally did what you described. Thanks for taking the time to share this! And thank you because every comment encourages more TH-cam algos which = more riders seeing it. Wonderful
Just for a bit of a fun feedback. I am instructing people on how to drive motorcycles on track to become better riders. I used most of the techniques you talk about, like the Haka Hunker, Horse stance Hold and so on with my participants. For several of them, this was a game changer. Even the Pedal Split sort of works on a motorcycle, even it we can't pedal. My riding has become a lot better on the motorcycle since I started doing MTB. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and giving me new ways of expressing what I want to communicate not only on the MTB.
My theory is that is on high traction berm or rut turns, more level pedals will provide more control, and more traction. Once the corner starts to go flat, or once the corner becomes loose and traction is going away, no weight on the bars and 90% weight on that basically fully dropped outside pedal. If you watch videos of the best riders in the world, they do the same. Level pedals around a flat gravel turn, is slow, and will have you picking gravel out of your forearms sooner than later.
Are we going fast enough to drift? If so you need to be ready to put the inside foot out for sure. What makes you say level pedals around a flat gravel turn is slow? Not disagreeing at all. You can drip outside foot but you better be strong! 💪🏻
It is something we do in road cycling races like a crit. On a flat hard turn we lower the outside foot to keep pressure on the tires so they don't break loose. Not sure how that would help in a flat turn when the ground is loose, better to just accept the loss of traction and let the back wheel drift on a MTB.
Another great tutorial! The similarities between your teaching progressions and fundamentals are very similar to teaching skiing. Thank you!!! My progress continues.
Game changer for me is/was: - strong core support (also knowing how to activate it) and spine in neutral/healthy position while riding - heels down, level pedals, leaning the bike. Occasionally I drop the outside, especially on the warm up laps until I’m dialed in. Is that bad? I see you drop the outside too on a some example pictures you show. - right frame size and bar height, I personally like a shorter bike and pretty high bar. Everyone is different, don’t go by general recommendation or the looks of how many spacers you use and how much rise your bar has. Some people need very low bars some super high and some can ride the bike in standard config.
Very interesting video. Although I don't do any mountain biking (bike touring and gravel) your information is still helpful, especially regarding pedal position while turning. I've always used the "outside foot down" position, especially on switchbacks, but sometimes I've had slight pedal strikes doing that. Not any more. Thanks!
saved this as i got some coaching when i was a relative newbie and was told to drop the foot for every corner, it worked really well for a long time but i did have the occasional washout on dodgy corners and then i realized the problem was dropping the foot, since then I've been struggling with corners big time and really struggling to get it right stuck in this limbo between dropping the foot and level pedals, I'm a quick rider but my corners let me down massively so i hope this can help me!
I've tried the platforrm, level feet approach as described here, and the full outside foot down. My sweetspot is what Simon Lawton calls front-foot vs, back-foot turns. Sort of in between, where the outside foot is slightly lower than the other. It does provide a platform, but it puts in, for me, the right amount of asymmetry to encourage the turn while keeping a solid, robust platform, and automatically puts my body in a great position, better (I've found) than with level pedals. Also lends itself to dynamic linking of turns. Once I got it, turning confidence and consistently skyrocketed. Great discussions here on the core/body position.
Hey Dave, I agree with flat pedals when corn rain this way if the bike starts to come out from underneath you you have balance to be able to react. Was 1 foot extended you have gone through all your body suspension on one leg and you really don’t have an ability to fix it if the bike starts to go out from underneath you I really like this video Dave good job. - Mary.
Hey Mary!!! Great to see you. Would love to hear any insight you have given your background as a gymnastics instructor and MTB coach!!! So exciting to see ya here ❤️
I agree with how to use your feet into turns but using the downhill foot on some turns and with the dirt. It helps dig in the nobs into the turn for well leaning the bike when you don't need the body to follow the bars, but for more grip with tire and dirt. After watching this, from riding and racing mtb for years, I do notice my feet are forward and back parallel to the ground, on 95% of the turns. thanks for showing this, I will play it in my shop.
Excelent video, great analysis and teaching! I am training horse stance after you mentioned it in videos. Using 25kg weight now. Feels very good an withstronger core I feel much stronger and athletic.
Yeah level pedals, and constantly adjusting for rocks, any locked positions will result in smashed feet and lurching. One of the best early learning is skateparks or pump tracks to become the suspension and grip. Also practicing your lean game on the worst like xc tires on kitty litter, then when you run good tires on grippy dirt it feels like endless grip. Cornering i think is mostly mental to build the confidence and muscle memory to press your weight into the tires.
I would call myself an intermediate rider and can relate to a lot of exsamples you gave. Normally I'm like an intuitive learning guy. Things like the stance was a thing that I made from beginning on, but then tried to change because of the "heels down" approach everyone is giving as advice. There are defenetly moments where I feel stiff on the bike, but dont know why. I will try your recommendations, thanks for that!
That was super helpful in a number of ways. You're a gifted teacher who has already helped me ride safer and more aggressively. Going to watch it again. Thank you May Jesus Christ bless you and your family
Maybe just an anecdote, but as a dirtbike rider i've learned that when your'e drifting rally style, standing on the pegs in attack position, you can very much control this with putting the weight on the outer vs the inner peg. Outside "stomps" the turn, getting grip back and straighten up, vs inside "kicks" out the rear wheel, turning into the turn. Not exactly the same on a mtb, but putting all weight on the outside pedal is working against the turn.
Haven't watched whole vid but surprised to see as I was lucky enough to ride with Cedric, Peaty, and Minnaar once, and they all recommended dropping a foot if conditions and speed warrant it.
Oh it’s definitely worth it in some situations! You have to keep in mind all 3 are savage athletes who train pretty much daily Except maybe Gracia I dunno I think he partied hard lol kidding Ask them- if they recommend dropping the foot or weighting the outside foot. There’s a difference!
Thank you for bringing the undisputable science to these techniques you use and teach. I'm 62 years old. I've been jumping bikes and breaking bones for a bit here, and I have learned from you my young friend . Thanks
I learned this from Ken Hill Coaching, but a “locked body” as you call, ultimately locks the handle bar, which locks the steering head, and thus the front wheel. You need that front wheel to be free to conform to the imperfections in the trail. Lock body = bad, because front wheel locked. You didn’t explicitly say this, but definitely implied it. Great video!
100%. I race motorbikes and a massive thing is being really light on the handlebars, if you're too stiff/locked then you will easily lose the front if you hit a bump or something mid corner.
Thanks, another great video. Your explanations make so much sense, matching some things I already did without understanding why, and many new things that make for a better ride. I really can't believe how many years I rode pedal down, and now get so much more stable anz safer cornering where can recover from a slide or bump.
Great advice. I am an old beginner (been bicycling almost all my life, but just recently started trail biking), and your advice on “platforming” with the feet on the pedals already has a positive effect. When it comes to cornering, though, I find myself worrying about grip, and how much to lean the bike. On natural trails or gravel paths you often do not have banked corners, so how do you ensure you have the best grip while still maintaining proper speed, berm or no berm?
Dude, one of your videos I saw last night had the MTB attack position/cornering movement similar to this one; you got me to put it into a set of aerobics I've been putting together. 😅
I was scared this video was about to tell me ive been doing everything wrong like to one for jumping lol, but turns out my cornering technique is correct. great videos mate!
Your not the only one but damn close. Ive got a drill that i do all the way to the trail head on flat or slight down in the access road. As soon as i don't need to pedal i ride the shoulder and ditch of the road where its loose and uneven and or wet or muddy. My riding buddies call it the wiggle. I drop my seat assume a flat pedal stance, slightly hinge at the hips staying mid to high or open as you say. I then concentrate my weight on my feet and let the bike follow the undulations and ground changes, while staying in relaxed and balanced state when the bike is shifting, sliding. As my body becomes used to this i start to over exaggerate the side to side of the bike to exaggerate the shifting and sliding. keeping the weight right on the wheels and feet only. (Hence "the wiggle")The effect is that you feel like your floating smoothly along with your body but from your feet to the tires is shifting sliding undulating chaos moving everywhere. My goal is to stay in the sweetspot where i feel all my weight moving with the bike while not transferring energy to the torso and head. They just float along. I've been doing this exercise for years on most rides to loosen up and connect with the bike before things get rowdy. As the years have gone on ive started to look way ahead and not really see what the bike is gonna do in front of me so the brain learns where to be when the unexpected happens and shift there naturally,not panic and grab brake which is rarely a good move. I find this teaches the body to be a part of the suspension and braking systems and not just deadweight on them. Great video Been saying everything you've said in it for years, but much less articulate. Thanks for putting into layman's understanding. Ill be following you and recommend you to people who ask for videos to improve. Keep your rubber in the dirt. The Texada Psycholist .
Actively relaxing and letting the bike move/bounce around is key. And the looking far ahead gives time to process and reduces the load on your CPU. This mentally relaxes you. Watch downhill racers in slow motion. You'll see the bike hands and feet all moving to maintain control and the head and shoulders pretty smooth.
The other thing I heard in another video is that dropping your outside foot puts all your weight on the bike outside of the turn and tries to pop the bike up. Your weight is on the outside of the tires contact point. Now you have to fight against your own weight to keep the bike leaned.
No. If your body and bike are positioned correctly, then your body weight is going through the inside turning knobs. This is true with level or unlevel pedals. It's all a matter of paying attention to what's going on in the moment and not some set rule that you saw on TH-cam.
@@jimwing.2178 If one puts a force through a moment outside of the axis of centripetal acceleration it does stand the bike up. "Paying attention to the moment" isn't actionable advice. Here's my point: I can position my body correctly, but apply force through the outside foot. This creates a force that stands the bike up if my inside foot has only a small pressure on it. I can also position my outside foot down and apply even pressure through both feet. This will actually negate the effect, but I have less fore-aft stability, forcing me to put weight on hands or pull on hands. Both ways are helpful. You need to apply the method to the situation correctly.
@@mountainbikeacademy "Paying attention to the moment" is not what I wrote. How's about paying attention to a comment before dismissing it? How does the advice that I really wrote: "It's all a matter of paying attention to what's going on in the moment and not some set rule that you saw on TH-cam" differ from your conclusion, "Both ways are helpful. You need to apply the method to the situation correctly." ?
I saw some jackwagon in the comments question the foot position of the "wedge" in a previous video, and one of the best things you can do, especially when descending some serious gnar, is the wedge. It really keeps your feel locked on the pedals when you need it most.
True - it's also TH-cam I'm shocked I don't get more hate. I'm really waiting for a good roast to laugh at. Most are just well meaning uptight people with a slight opinion. I wanna get roasted HARD but nobody is bringing their a-game
Xc corners outside foot. I get your point in real trail corners though. Flat xc corners of any kind are the same as road cycling, or very close to the same approach.
I just discovered your channel tonight, I've watched a couple of your videos and I'm looking forward to testing to see if I'm immediately able to use this information tomorrow, or if I'll need to practice. I do deliveries on an e-bike in a city that is not walkable and even less bikable, the intersections are basically designed to be uncrossable for cyclists by forcing you to make a sharp right, left, right, straight to cross, right, sharp left, sharp right, just to maneuver around the curbs as you cross an intersection -- combine that with aggressive impatient drivers that don't want to wait one single second for pedestrians or cyclists, at a busy unavoidable intersection, with legal right-on-red, and no pedestrian lights, just merciless traffic lights that are nonstop letting cars go straight, right, left, and the only chance you ever get to cross on a bike is literally the seconds between a light change. But then it's hard to cross with that kind of speed when you've got to slow down to navigate the sharp turns with harsh curbs. I'm hoping that being able to corner better will allow me to navigate these intersections less stressfully and a little more quickly.
Well. I am just going by Aaron Gwins full videos on how to corner. He definitely recommends dropping the outside foot to varying degree based on the situation.
...which is exactly what I'm agreeing with lol. I literally say you want to float your feet and keep them roughly level with the horizon. I explain the pros and cons of when to drop the outside foot. The main distinction is that if you push down on your outside foot and apply extra weight to it while unweighting the inside foot + go over gnarly terrain you run into trouble. Thanks for the comment. Obviously Aaron Gwin is faster than me and he is definitely not "wrong" lol.
These are good tips. One question I have is, have you ever ridden in socal? Not sure if you have ever encountered the traction conditions we have out here. Everything is super loose and in flat corners the traction is extremely poor. Dropping that outside foot helps you hold that traction in those cases. If you blow through those turns you can have both tires lose traction and you end up laying down with the bike. Very skilled people seem to be able to power slide through turns, but I'm not that cool. I would definitely say that your method is better in pretty much every other kind of situation. Let me know if you have any suggestions for dealing with that.
That dropped foot gives a "sense" of confidence because you have the inside foot unweighted and ready to lift off and stick out to catch a washout. But it's a false sense of security because your balance is fixed in place, and you have no control over the tire contact loading. It effectively limits your speed. Traction is tricky and losing it happens fast on an mtb but if you work up the speed in flat corners with flat pedals and lean the bike more than the body and use countersteering ( forcing the front in is a recipie for tucking the front. You can get away with it usually on banked corners with grip, but flat turns will catch you out). It is a bit unsettling at first, but the first few saves will have you a believer. The key is to gradually add speed and use common sense. I virtually eliminated heart stopping front end washout type crashes/near crashes with foot out after learning this. Like Dave says. Practice the balance and skill stuff on flat pavement till its second nature. You'll be glad you did.
@@anthonysei I wish it was just the front. Our ground is basically super hard with a light covering of very small rock and sand. When you lose it you usually lose both tires. It's always tricky to tell how much speed you can take before you lose it. I'll have to try both and see the results
@rcranston3 pro tip. Wear knee pads. And maybe elbows. Pushing limits has its risks. I lived in So Cal and Albuquerque and Santa fe. Loose decomposed granite and silt on hardpan is where I started. My foot rarely comes off the inside pedal except in the wet in GA with the roots in turns. 😆. So Cal has a lot of variety. Something for everybody!!
SUPER good thinking Ryan (I remember you from FB too man) so you're spot on - try both and see how it feels. I spent half my day dropping my outside foot yesterday and doing Rich Drews method for fun, just to feel it. I wasn't dramatically slower. Nothing bad happened lol.
Good content. Well done man. You should do the handle bar training in the horse stance. Or stand where you would be if on your peddles. Maybe. I'm going to go try it now. Lol that really makes this a great vid.
You teach mountain biking like I train my clients in Personal Training. No cop-outs or lazy nonsense, unless it’s to prove a point. But always tell the simple truth, backed up with logic and science. Are you available for 1-on-1? 😃 I can’t really use the other “methods”, because they don’t explain anything the way I would. Yes I suck 🤷🏼♂️😉 but the question remains.
Great job man I struggle with corners always have but this some how resonated probably talking to teenage girls, ya was that guy to🙏🌎 Anywho once you watch this it’s a fresh approach that can make you a 100% or 50% improved off of what you implement into your technique. I grasped heavily the loading the bike feet level upright in torso Either way win win thank you Brother appreciated this🚵♀️
I was taught to always keep your feet on the pedals and body position. In addition, these days it looks like most people are riding non clipped pedals.I don't understand always had in the early two thousands and mid two thousands clipless pedals
Best tip to get better at cornering is to follow faster riders as much as possible. It will show you all the little things they do to go faster, where you are weak, and forces you to push your own pace.
Drop outside every once in a necessary tight spot but DO switch foot forward based on going left or right. Turning left, right foot forward. Turning right, left foot forward. This allows you to use floating feet and even change your feet positioning through the turn and also weight the outside or inside of your pedals depending on your foot input, which transfers to your tire contact and pushes the "edges" (think ski or snowboard edge) of the tires into the trail/turn. Switch feet!!
I agree with this, usually: "DO switch foot forward based on going left or right." I completely disagree with this: "Turning left, right foot forward. Turning right, left foot forward." I forces the dork stance in which the rider must contort to get enough space to lean the bike. When the inside leg is forward, that thigh will already be out of the way and the rider can maintain a ready-for-anything posture even while leaning the bike. I'll admit that the dork stance looks 'sick' in today's riding fashion, but only old farts will be doing it a few years from now.
Great stuff!! I’ve been working on the press pedal position and fluid body position. Do you agree that coming in high on a turn is the best lane choice?
It's solid for sure - I can't stand when racks move around it's a pet peeve. Velocirax is good -only downside is my kids are tiny people and their bikes don't quite fit. It's AWESOME for drives up to the mountains!!!
Did you realise that in all the left corners, even there is a slight berm, your outward foot is down?? Yes it is. So your inner knee can open so your pelvis and bellybutton can lead the direction. You also get your outer knee to the frame, like when you ski and you want to cut your edges into the slope! I think it also depends which of your feet is the front and back foot.
ooh - if you're talking about what I think you are you're absolutely correct - generally you need to have a slightly different shape to achieve turning in the direction of your forward foot (mine is left) yeah so I need to make a bit more room. Great eye!
Seem to apply equally on road bike. Question: on smooth road surface descends, do you get more traction having the outside leg down vs holding even as in your tip 1? (I tried both methods and both felt fine but just wondering which method would give more traction.)
Easy target. A drug you permanently have to be on because if you stop you gain back more weight than you lost? That doesn’t sound like it fixes the root issue. I’m a HUGE believer in fixing root issue not symptoms. Also it apparently (from my understanding) gives 50 percent of people very noticeable bad side effects. Now, TH-cam ISNT coaching. But imagine if I were coaching a nice rider who really wanted to learn to jump. And I chose an easy to learn method that guaranteed jumps as long as you used it but 50 percent of riders wash out on corners 100 percent of their rides… I’d not only have frustrated riders, I’d get bad reviews and shut down. Hope that’s a fair answer.
It's used to lose weight fast, but has tons of side effects. Pharma companies making a ton not solving the root issue of poor diet/exercise/food quality etc. I'm sure it's useful for some, not judging, but dang
This comment is probably already been made, but the other reason I've always dropped my outside pedal is that it allows a weightless inside foot to drop in case you start to wash out. I tried this technique today and that kept creeping into my head.. lol..
Dropping outside pedals may be the most common bad advice out there. Its useful in like 5% of corners. Source? Every pro DH racer riding clips + my 20+ years riding experience.
Lol. The highschoolers giving advice on talking to women comment absolutely NAILS the "expert advice" all over youtube. If i learn nothing else from this video, that will stay with me.
Well - if you listen to Neko Mulally's interview he says nobody drops outside foot, ever. Loose, flat turns - the kind where they stick a foot out (like Sam Hill) are when they are drifting. So you are correct if we are talking about drifting.
@@mountainbikeacademy I’ve rewatched a bunch of recent wc dh footage and plenty of top riders drop their outside foot on long, flat corners without drifting that much. Aaron gwin has a cornering video on youtube and he recommends to drop the foot to various degrees depending on the corner and amount of grip. In some cases he drops the outside foot completely.
Like anything hard you need to be fit to be good at it lol . Try skateboarding with a shit core . The horse stance is insane , did Wu chi for a few years . The horse stance will make most people shake in a few minutes . I think biking comes down to experience . Got a new mountain bike for just messing around , it has two cassettes . Would of never known how complicated it was to use . Might get it converted . Or just learn to use them correctly . Sram looks good for someone like me , I'm rather rough lol . I can brake any bike I recon .
You turn the bike by rotating the hips period is that simple. Learn how to do that properly and all the rest will follow . Riding it’s very situational sometimes I have my foot down sometimes I don’t sometimes I have both of my hills down sometimes I have the wedge like you call it .
You people have never rode oversized steel bikes as a kid, have you? The old 28 inch ones where you have to get your legs below the top bar and ride while standing? It seems to me that this entire video is just trying to explain that experience.
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I work as a MTB instructor and I think your advice is top notch, very well explained as well!
I moved away from consciously dropping the outside foot and it makes a world of difference :)
@@leonardgerz9388 Epic - wasn't my idea frankly, this is a concept from a few of my mentors and other places I've learned!
You are the ONLY coach that clarifies the key point, that level pedals are level with the horizon, regardless to the angle of the bike, which I found to be the biggest key to my cornering. 👌
I doubt I’m the only lol plenty of riders and coaches get this
@@mountainbikeacademy I noticed on more than a couple of stills that the riders did indeed have their outside foot in the lowered position. I guess I missed the part where it was emphasized that the pedals should always? be level with the horizon? Is this regardless of a corner with or without a berm?
This is a cornering guide for intermediate riders. Love it! Thank you! I have figured this stuff out to a large degree through trial and error (blood, sweat, and a little bit of tears). Yes, people underestimate how important core muscles are. A strong core allows one to “float” over the bars, move their arms/bars without necessarily shifting weight which is crucial.
Watched this morning, tried out in Willingen Bikepark and blown it! Instand wayy faster cornering! Watching your video improved my skillz instantly, THANK YOU!
Great to hear!
As an ex motorcycle road racer, I started mtb cornering with a hang off style. Lasted a few corners. Quickly adopted a less body lean technique. Then went full on lean the bike and float the cg as needed to balance cornering forces and traction. Level pedals make for easy cg shifts fore/after. Dropped outside pedal sort of forces a fixed for/after center of gravity and thus a fixed contact pressure. Not ideal. Love hearing this discussed.
Thank you - yeah going from motorcycles is way way different
But
I bet you intuitively get countersteer better than most! Thanks very much for the convo!
@mountainbikeacademy 100%. And using the front brake.
Not having a powered rear wheel to manage contact pressure balance and shock compression changes things, but I learned to adapt. Thinking about all that, probably why I tend to run a hard rear tire and softer front. Most of the cornering force is through the rear wheel and the front is more like a tiller, pointing the way. 🤔
Mtb is more like MX than motorbike roadracing. Important diff is in MX you grab the bike with legs. In MTB you actually giving the bike space between legs and bike is a fraction weight of MX bike. The body form and weight transfer, distribution matters much more.
This one is excelent video!!
Agreed, I've had to break a lot of habits from motorcycling going to mtb. Aside from the countersteering and initiating turns, of course.
The whole 'locked body' totally makes obvious sense...thanks dude!
You’re super welcome!
I'm outside on my bike riding home, and decided to listen to your video while I ride. Your tips are very helpful! I did feel more stable in the lower areas of the bike having pedals even with the ground and pedal pressing while cornering. Outside pedal down didn't have me feeling anymore at an advantage when cornering, and on the trails, I was always worried about my outside pedal hitting a root (which has happened before). Having my torso down and open definitely helped me corner faster; It was immediately noticable. Torso up and opem while down low is also a tip for proper form when doing any type of dead lifts also, so I've mastered that position. Great tips.
LOL that's fast implementation please be safe and don't TH-cam and Ride haha
In the early 90’s , before snowboarding was allowed; yearning for a challenge on my alpine skills, I taught myself how to telemark backcountry ski.
In the off-season, on the same slopes I’d mimic the telemark stance riding my bike. It clicked. I’ve been riding swiftly through turns since.
For me, the outside leg pegged out style came from imitating dirt track / moto style and all of the old school BMX magazine photos of racers coasting the track berms. It works fine on a smooth surface but once undulations from the inevitable ruts, roots or rocks disturb your balance point , it’s tough to manage the catfight going on between your legs when you’re holding yourself up on a hyperextended stick which is the closest appendage to the downhill tumble.
You’ve articulated all of the mechanics very well and have helped me realize that I’ve been lazy about these fundamentals when I’m just cruising around. Not anymore thanks to you.
Timely tips ‘cause I just let a new filly into the barn and I’m smitten.
Dude, She’s a 27.5 PLUS size , disc brakin’ , 4130 steel is real kurvey klunker thoroughbred that I’ve got life changing plans fer.
A bit of more work and I’ll be able to get her an operation in the hindquarters by some techs called Tubus & Rohloff.
Then, that’s what I’m gonna do. Load Up & Roll Off to my grand state’s Arizona Trail MTB route. 800 miles from the international fence, traversing northward through Sky island mountain retreats from the scorching desert passage until the way is intercepted by a certain canyon that despite every yearning fiber in my body, my instant original childhood thought when peering down the trailhead on our first family visit…
Nope. You’re not allowed to ride your bike down the Grand Canyon. Bummer eh?
I’ve daydreamed countless hours for bypassing such restrictions involving a stealth lead painted enduro MTB with a silent hub. infrared shielding camo outfit, night vision and a pack-raft.
However rules be damned. Not on this mission. The name of the game is what I believe gentlemen refer to as a portage or brutes may call a ruck. We shall she where I land on the spectrum. One must disassemble their ride and throw the beast on the back for a down and up stroll. To then reassemble and loiter on up to the Utah state line. I’m proud to know that it is the most rugged major scenic thru-trail in the nation.
Taking it easy, looking ahead to where I want to go and positive control on points of contact will help me from getting bucked and stranded.
Baby chicks in the hand. Bracing pressure on the pedals. Training on the current rigid BMX single speed setup has been terrifically simple and direct which has really helped me tune into fundamentals that 160mm travel rigs are lenient to discipline.
It just makes sense to spread the load to more muscle, more joints absorbing the obstacles. In any athletic activity , being in your ready position is rule#1
As Chubbs said,
“It’s all in the hips.”
steel is real!!!
In meinen Augen sind deine tutorials die besten !! Bei denen Erklärungen fühle ich was du genau damit meinst !!
Einfach richtig super Erklärt!!
Top Top ....😊
❤️ sorry I don’t speak Cantonese!
Jk thank you so much!!!
I started doing this after seeing your previous video on riding level and just flicking the bike back and forth under you into hard corners, banked curves, etc. It completely changed my riding and was a huge level up.
Link?
Great information!!! I think a lot of people are in the same category like myself as far as we are just average people on local trails trying to MTB better. The most things you tend to see is bike park pros doing all sorts of tricks and flips while the rest of us are looking for small victories. Thanks for thinking about us that haven’t figured out the intermediate skills yet.👍🏻
Thanks for sharing!!
Your videos rule and have helped me immensely. As a beginner the fundamental game changer for me was my head and eyes positioned into the exit of the corner vs. at the front wheel contact point. This video is probably meant to be intermediate and that’s a super basic thing? I’ve been digging my outside foot into the turn and can’t wait to practice this.
It depends - either way you’re crushing it
Dropping the foot has also some advantages. You get lower by the lenght of the crank. If you have short legs then its easier to lean the bike because its not blocked by the saddle. Yes, level pedals give you more stability side to side, but front to back not that much. You stand on both feet but the cranks rotate around the bottom bracket. I think it's the personal preference. I've tried level pedals but I've failed. I corner much better with the fluid pedal movement and dropping the outside foot on the apex of the turn. Maybe it's the muscle memory from the skiing?
I only drop my foot on flat or off camber turns, or sharper turns. It feels like it digs the tires into the ground better so I get more grip and carry the most speed.
If I’m on a banked turn, level pedals feel more athletic and balanced and enable me to carry my momentum and attack the turn with the most speed.
I tend to agree with him.
Fair enough! What you might not realize is that you're probably weighting both pedals and creating the platform I'm talking about, just with a bit more movement of the cranks! So I'd argue you're achieving the same end goal that I'm encouraging people to try for, good work.
And hey- if something works for you keep doing it! :) Cheers and thanks for the convo !
I do too! Have you ever tried weighting the inside foot on off camber a bit to get more bite from the side knobs? Totally crazy tip I got from a WC downhiller. I never would have tried it as off camber scares me lol.
@@mountainbikeacademy I can't recall what I am doing on off-camber with my feet. And do you mean going straight on off-camber traverse or off-camber turns? The first ones I just ride in a position like if I was turning up the terrain and bike does the rest. But since I am not hitting the roots and rocks with the pedals then I suppose I have the feet level. Ha!
For the off-camber turns - I don't think there are any at the trails I ride. Maybe they are but I don't struggle with them so i did not remember it, I just turn like on the flat turns.
I'm a bit new to this but I did a lot of messing around during the evening, out with my dog. And I found out that whenever I feel stuck going into a corner, it's because I haven't commited by really opening up my inside hip and knee, and then bringing my outside knee into the frame, almost like I'm trying to push the frame over with my leg. As soon as I noticed that, I was able to corner way better. Definitely have a strong core from weightlifting so that helps. Also love riding with a wedge and more level pedals just because of all the roots and rocks. Level pedals is just my ready for anything position. So yeah, weirdly I can follow most of what you're saying. And from a psychological perspective, that open chest does something in our heads that immediately allows us to feel more like things are ok. I'm a female rider so I use that a lot to help stay calm in more sketchy terrain. Cool video! Hopefully it helps so riders have more fun in corners!
Really thoughtful comment and I TOTALLY know what you mean - one of those photos I put in to demo maybe not quite so much what to do I totally did what you described. Thanks for taking the time to share this! And thank you because every comment encourages more TH-cam algos which = more riders seeing it.
Wonderful
Just for a bit of a fun feedback. I am instructing people on how to drive motorcycles on track to become better riders. I used most of the techniques you talk about, like the Haka Hunker, Horse stance Hold and so on with my participants. For several of them, this was a game changer. Even the Pedal Split sort of works on a motorcycle, even it we can't pedal.
My riding has become a lot better on the motorcycle since I started doing MTB.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and giving me new ways of expressing what I want to communicate not only on the MTB.
Thanks! Instructors tend to get this stuff quick because I use first principles from physics and whatnot. Good times!
My theory is that is on high traction berm or rut turns, more level pedals will provide more control, and more traction. Once the corner starts to go flat, or once the corner becomes loose and traction is going away, no weight on the bars and 90% weight on that basically fully dropped outside pedal. If you watch videos of the best riders in the world, they do the same. Level pedals around a flat gravel turn, is slow, and will have you picking gravel out of your forearms sooner than later.
Are we going fast enough to drift? If so you need to be ready to put the inside foot out for sure. What makes you say level pedals around a flat gravel turn is slow? Not disagreeing at all. You can drip outside foot but you better be strong! 💪🏻
100% correct. Berms level, flat, low grip, outside foot. Steve Peat had that right.
It is something we do in road cycling races like a crit. On a flat hard turn we lower the outside foot to keep pressure on the tires so they don't break loose. Not sure how that would help in a flat turn when the ground is loose, better to just accept the loss of traction and let the back wheel drift on a MTB.
Another great tutorial! The similarities between your teaching progressions and fundamentals are very similar to teaching skiing. Thank you!!! My progress continues.
That’s reassuring!
Game changer for me is/was:
- strong core support (also knowing how to activate it) and spine in neutral/healthy position while riding
- heels down, level pedals, leaning the bike. Occasionally I drop the outside, especially on the warm up laps until I’m dialed in. Is that bad? I see you drop the outside too on a some example pictures you show.
- right frame size and bar height, I personally like a shorter bike and pretty high bar. Everyone is different, don’t go by general recommendation or the looks of how many spacers you use and how much rise your bar has. Some people need very low bars some super high and some can ride the bike in standard config.
Very interesting video. Although I don't do any mountain biking (bike touring and gravel) your information is still helpful, especially regarding pedal position while turning. I've always used the "outside foot down" position, especially on switchbacks, but sometimes I've had slight pedal strikes doing that. Not any more. Thanks!
Nice!
saved this as i got some coaching when i was a relative newbie and was told to drop the foot for every corner, it worked really well for a long time but i did have the occasional washout on dodgy corners and then i realized the problem was dropping the foot, since then I've been struggling with corners big time and really struggling to get it right stuck in this limbo between dropping the foot and level pedals, I'm a quick rider but my corners let me down massively so i hope this can help me!
Yeah try it. Foot dropping is useful for slow, flat corners and riding with one foot out on super fast corners.
I've tried the platforrm, level feet approach as described here, and the full outside foot down. My sweetspot is what Simon Lawton calls front-foot vs, back-foot turns. Sort of in between, where the outside foot is slightly lower than the other. It does provide a platform, but it puts in, for me, the right amount of asymmetry to encourage the turn while keeping a solid, robust platform, and automatically puts my body in a great position, better (I've found) than with level pedals. Also lends itself to dynamic linking of turns. Once I got it, turning confidence and consistently skyrocketed. Great discussions here on the core/body position.
excellent awareness my friend. This is how you're supposed to "feel" it out^ Great discovery! Stoked for ya, and thanks for sharing your takeaways!!!
Hey Dave, I agree with flat pedals when corn rain this way if the bike starts to come out from underneath you you have balance to be able to react. Was 1 foot extended you have gone through all your body suspension on one leg and you really don’t have an ability to fix it if the bike starts to go out from underneath you
I really like this video Dave good job. - Mary.
Hey Mary!!! Great to see you. Would love to hear any insight you have given your background as a gymnastics instructor and MTB coach!!! So exciting to see ya here ❤️
Good advice. Because your material is so good, you would serve yourself better by being more consice on each point.
I appreciate that!
Drills drills and drills help. There is a great sloping grassy field where I practice fast flat linked cornering without fear.
Gw
I agree with how to use your feet into turns but using the downhill foot on some turns and with the dirt. It helps dig in the nobs into the turn for well leaning the bike when you don't need the body to follow the bars, but for more grip with tire and dirt. After watching this, from riding and racing mtb for years, I do notice my feet are forward and back parallel to the ground, on 95% of the turns.
thanks for showing this, I will play it in my shop.
oh nice - you have a shop? Anything I can do for the ppl there (specific videos can be fun - I can shoutout your people)
Excelent video, great analysis and teaching! I am training horse stance after you mentioned it in videos. Using 25kg weight now. Feels very good an withstronger core I feel much stronger and athletic.
Keep it up
Yeah level pedals, and constantly adjusting for rocks, any locked positions will result in smashed feet and lurching. One of the best early learning is skateparks or pump tracks to become the suspension and grip. Also practicing your lean game on the worst like xc tires on kitty litter, then when you run good tires on grippy dirt it feels like endless grip. Cornering i think is mostly mental to build the confidence and muscle memory to press your weight into the tires.
skateparks are extremely underrated for this ^ - excellent point!
I would call myself an intermediate rider and can relate to a lot of exsamples you gave. Normally I'm like an intuitive learning guy. Things like the stance was a thing that I made from beginning on, but then tried to change because of the "heels down" approach everyone is giving as advice. There are defenetly moments where I feel stiff on the bike, but dont know why. I will try your recommendations, thanks for that!
Glad it resonated with ya! I’m a very intuitive rider myself
bro stoked to see your channel taking off!
Big thanks! Hopefully I can last haha! Lmk when you’re down near the southeast and let’s ride!
I’ll be racing DH this year for the first time so this is great info. I’ll also use this technique with my BMX racing as well. Thanks 🤘🤙
Bmx is a fantastic precursor to DH you’ll rock
That was super helpful in a number of ways. You're a gifted teacher who has already helped me ride safer and more aggressively.
Going to watch it again.
Thank you May Jesus Christ bless you and your family
Amen brother enjoy shredding
Maybe just an anecdote, but as a dirtbike rider i've learned that when your'e drifting rally style, standing on the pegs in attack position, you can very much control this with putting the weight on the outer vs the inner peg. Outside "stomps" the turn, getting grip back and straighten up, vs inside "kicks" out the rear wheel, turning into the turn. Not exactly the same on a mtb, but putting all weight on the outside pedal is working against the turn.
Haven't watched whole vid but surprised to see as I was lucky enough to ride with Cedric, Peaty, and Minnaar once, and they all recommended dropping a foot if conditions and speed warrant it.
Oh it’s definitely worth it in some situations!
You have to keep in mind all 3 are savage athletes who train pretty much daily
Except maybe Gracia I dunno I think he partied hard lol kidding
Ask them- if they recommend dropping the foot or weighting the outside foot. There’s a difference!
Thank you for bringing the undisputable science to these techniques you use and teach. I'm 62 years old. I've been jumping bikes and breaking bones for a bit here, and I have learned from you my young friend . Thanks
Super! Glad you liked it and glad you're out jumping and having fun!
I learned this from Ken Hill Coaching, but a “locked body” as you call, ultimately locks the handle bar, which locks the steering head, and thus the front wheel. You need that front wheel to be free to conform to the imperfections in the trail.
Lock body = bad, because front wheel locked.
You didn’t explicitly say this, but definitely implied it.
Great video!
I need to check this out!
Good comment- I wasn’t aware of Ken Hill.
@@mountainbikeacademy he is a sport bike coach, but two wheels is two wheels, baby!
Stay loose! Think of mogul skiing. Let the bike move to follow the terrain and load path.
100%. I race motorbikes and a massive thing is being really light on the handlebars, if you're too stiff/locked then you will easily lose the front if you hit a bump or something mid corner.
Thanks, another great video. Your explanations make so much sense, matching some things I already did without understanding why, and many new things that make for a better ride.
I really can't believe how many years I rode pedal down, and now get so much more stable anz safer cornering where can recover from a slide or bump.
Excellent!
Great advice. I am an old beginner (been bicycling almost all my life, but just recently started trail biking), and your advice on “platforming” with the feet on the pedals already has a positive effect. When it comes to cornering, though, I find myself worrying about grip, and how much to lean the bike. On natural trails or gravel paths you often do not have banked corners, so how do you ensure you have the best grip while still maintaining proper speed, berm or no berm?
Dude, one of your videos I saw last night had the MTB attack position/cornering movement similar to this one; you got me to put it into a set of aerobics I've been putting together. 😅
You had me at “it’s just ozempic in a world of fitness” 😂
I was scared this video was about to tell me ive been doing everything wrong like to one for jumping lol, but turns out my cornering technique is correct.
great videos mate!
Ayyyy good times! Glad to hear it
Man.. I have so much trouble with getting it in my head to do corners good and fast.. Just what i was looking for! Gonna try this next time im out!
Go for it!
Your not the only one but damn close.
Ive got a drill that i do all the way to the trail head on flat or slight down in the access road.
As soon as i don't need to pedal i ride the shoulder and ditch of the road where its loose and uneven and or wet or muddy. My riding buddies call it the wiggle. I drop my seat assume a flat pedal stance, slightly hinge at the hips staying mid to high or open as you say. I then concentrate my weight on my feet and let the bike follow the undulations and ground changes, while staying in relaxed and balanced state when the bike is shifting, sliding. As my body becomes used to this i start to over exaggerate the side to side of the bike to exaggerate the shifting and sliding. keeping the weight right on the wheels and feet only. (Hence "the wiggle")The effect is that you feel like your floating smoothly along with your body but from your feet to the tires is shifting sliding undulating chaos moving everywhere. My goal is to stay in the sweetspot where i feel all my weight moving with the bike while not transferring energy to the torso and head. They just float along.
I've been doing this exercise for years on most rides to loosen up and connect with the bike before things get rowdy. As the years have gone on ive started to look way ahead and not really see what the bike is gonna do in front of me so the brain learns where to be when the unexpected happens and shift there naturally,not panic and grab brake which is rarely a good move.
I find this teaches the body to be a part of the suspension and braking systems and not just deadweight on them. Great video
Been saying everything you've said in it for years, but much less articulate. Thanks for putting into layman's understanding.
Ill be following you and recommend you to people who ask for videos to improve.
Keep your rubber in the dirt.
The Texada Psycholist .
This is comprehensive
Actively relaxing and letting the bike move/bounce around is key. And the looking far ahead gives time to process and reduces the load on your CPU. This mentally relaxes you. Watch downhill racers in slow motion. You'll see the bike hands and feet all moving to maintain control and the head and shoulders pretty smooth.
The other thing I heard in another video is that dropping your outside foot puts all your weight on the bike outside of the turn and tries to pop the bike up. Your weight is on the outside of the tires contact point. Now you have to fight against your own weight to keep the bike leaned.
correct!
No. If your body and bike are positioned correctly, then your body weight is going through the inside turning knobs. This is true with level or unlevel pedals. It's all a matter of paying attention to what's going on in the moment and not some set rule that you saw on TH-cam.
@@jimwing.2178 If one puts a force through a moment outside of the axis of centripetal acceleration it does stand the bike up.
"Paying attention to the moment" isn't actionable advice.
Here's my point: I can position my body correctly, but apply force through the outside foot. This creates a force that stands the bike up if my inside foot has only a small pressure on it.
I can also position my outside foot down and apply even pressure through both feet.
This will actually negate the effect, but I have less fore-aft stability, forcing me to put weight on hands or pull on hands.
Both ways are helpful. You need to apply the method to the situation correctly.
@@mountainbikeacademy "Paying attention to the moment" is not what I wrote. How's about paying attention to a comment before dismissing it?
How does the advice that I really wrote: "It's all a matter of paying attention to what's going on in the moment and not some set rule that you saw on TH-cam" differ from your conclusion, "Both ways are helpful. You need to apply the method to the situation correctly." ?
I saw some jackwagon in the comments question the foot position of the "wedge" in a previous video, and one of the best things you can do, especially when descending some serious gnar, is the wedge. It really keeps your feel locked on the pedals when you need it most.
True - it's also TH-cam I'm shocked I don't get more hate. I'm really waiting for a good roast to laugh at. Most are just well meaning uptight people with a slight opinion. I wanna get roasted HARD but nobody is bringing their a-game
I was taught by my instructor to keep my heels down, which helps, but will have to try out the wedge position.
@@davefellows yeah that is a great recommendation for super steeps but it's a stupid idea for cornering around berms especially lol
Outside foot is for Flat Corners whe you have a camber you balance your foot
SLOW flat corners. Fast corners it's a bad idea.
Xc corners outside foot. I get your point in real trail corners though. Flat xc corners of any kind are the same as road cycling, or very close to the same approach.
For roots rocks terrain I feel you on a more neutral stance.
I just discovered your channel tonight, I've watched a couple of your videos and I'm looking forward to testing to see if I'm immediately able to use this information tomorrow, or if I'll need to practice.
I do deliveries on an e-bike in a city that is not walkable and even less bikable, the intersections are basically designed to be uncrossable for cyclists by forcing you to make a sharp right, left, right, straight to cross, right, sharp left, sharp right, just to maneuver around the curbs as you cross an intersection -- combine that with aggressive impatient drivers that don't want to wait one single second for pedestrians or cyclists, at a busy unavoidable intersection, with legal right-on-red, and no pedestrian lights, just merciless traffic lights that are nonstop letting cars go straight, right, left, and the only chance you ever get to cross on a bike is literally the seconds between a light change. But then it's hard to cross with that kind of speed when you've got to slow down to navigate the sharp turns with harsh curbs.
I'm hoping that being able to corner better will allow me to navigate these intersections less stressfully and a little more quickly.
Sheesh - stay safe out there! Traffic is insane :)
Well. I am just going by Aaron Gwins full videos on how to corner. He definitely recommends dropping the outside foot to varying degree based on the situation.
...which is exactly what I'm agreeing with lol. I literally say you want to float your feet and keep them roughly level with the horizon. I explain the pros and cons of when to drop the outside foot.
The main distinction is that if you push down on your outside foot and apply extra weight to it while unweighting the inside foot + go over gnarly terrain you run into trouble.
Thanks for the comment. Obviously Aaron Gwin is faster than me and he is definitely not "wrong" lol.
Great video! Instantly improved my cornering!
These are good tips. One question I have is, have you ever ridden in socal? Not sure if you have ever encountered the traction conditions we have out here. Everything is super loose and in flat corners the traction is extremely poor. Dropping that outside foot helps you hold that traction in those cases. If you blow through those turns you can have both tires lose traction and you end up laying down with the bike. Very skilled people seem to be able to power slide through turns, but I'm not that cool. I would definitely say that your method is better in pretty much every other kind of situation. Let me know if you have any suggestions for dealing with that.
That dropped foot gives a "sense" of confidence because you have the inside foot unweighted and ready to lift off and stick out to catch a washout. But it's a false sense of security because your balance is fixed in place, and you have no control over the tire contact loading. It effectively limits your speed. Traction is tricky and losing it happens fast on an mtb but if you work up the speed in flat corners with flat pedals and lean the bike more than the body and use countersteering ( forcing the front in is a recipie for tucking the front. You can get away with it usually on banked corners with grip, but flat turns will catch you out). It is a bit unsettling at first, but the first few saves will have you a believer. The key is to gradually add speed and use common sense. I virtually eliminated heart stopping front end washout type crashes/near crashes with foot out after learning this. Like Dave says. Practice the balance and skill stuff on flat pavement till its second nature. You'll be glad you did.
That’s drifting, not cornering - way cooler 😎
Yeah that’s a bit different - whatever works for you.
@@anthonysei I wish it was just the front. Our ground is basically super hard with a light covering of very small rock and sand. When you lose it you usually lose both tires. It's always tricky to tell how much speed you can take before you lose it. I'll have to try both and see the results
@rcranston3 pro tip. Wear knee pads. And maybe elbows. Pushing limits has its risks. I lived in So Cal and Albuquerque and Santa fe. Loose decomposed granite and silt on hardpan is where I started. My foot rarely comes off the inside pedal except in the wet in GA with the roots in turns. 😆. So Cal has a lot of variety. Something for everybody!!
SUPER good thinking Ryan (I remember you from FB too man) so you're spot on - try both and see how it feels.
I spent half my day dropping my outside foot yesterday and doing Rich Drews method for fun, just to feel it. I wasn't dramatically slower. Nothing bad happened lol.
i forgot so much on my road bike lol thank you man
Good content. Well done man. You should do the handle bar training in the horse stance. Or stand where you would be if on your peddles. Maybe. I'm going to go try it now. Lol that really makes this a great vid.
You teach mountain biking like I train my clients in Personal Training. No cop-outs or lazy nonsense, unless it’s to prove a point. But always tell the simple truth, backed up with logic and science. Are you available for 1-on-1? 😃
I can’t really use the other “methods”, because they don’t explain anything the way I would. Yes I suck 🤷🏼♂️😉 but the question remains.
Great job man I struggle with corners always have but this some how resonated probably talking to teenage girls, ya was that guy to🙏🌎
Anywho once you watch this it’s a fresh approach that can make you a 100% or 50% improved off of what you implement into your technique. I grasped heavily the loading the bike feet level upright in torso Either way win win thank you Brother appreciated this🚵♀️
You got this! Still talking to teenage girls??? Jk jk jk
Keep at it!
I was taught to always keep your feet on the pedals and body position. In addition, these days it looks like most people are riding non clipped pedals.I don't understand always had in the early two thousands and mid two thousands clipless pedals
both clipless and flats are legit. I ride both. Flats are IMO a bit more freeride/fun :)
I'm the king of wash outs thanks for this video bro
Now you can be the Prince of Pedal Position
Any additional tips? Something you thought of afterward that might have made it easier?
Best tip to get better at cornering is to follow faster riders as much as possible. It will show you all the little things they do to go faster, where you are weak, and forces you to push your own pace.
I find myself dropping the pedal through the turn.. starting level and slowly dropping my foot if possible and the rolling that into a pedal stroke
Good stuff! Inside out, I like your approach.
I appreciate that!
Drop outside every once in a necessary tight spot but DO switch foot forward based on going left or right. Turning left, right foot forward. Turning right, left foot forward. This allows you to use floating feet and even change your feet positioning through the turn and also weight the outside or inside of your pedals depending on your foot input, which transfers to your tire contact and pushes the "edges" (think ski or snowboard edge) of the tires into the trail/turn. Switch feet!!
I agree with this, usually: "DO switch foot forward based on going left or right." I completely disagree with this: "Turning left, right foot forward. Turning right, left foot forward." I forces the dork stance in which the rider must contort to get enough space to lean the bike. When the inside leg is forward, that thigh will already be out of the way and the rider can maintain a ready-for-anything posture even while leaning the bike. I'll admit that the dork stance looks 'sick' in today's riding fashion, but only old farts will be doing it a few years from now.
Great stuff!! I’ve been working on the press pedal position and fluid body position. Do you agree that coming in high on a turn is the best lane choice?
I dunno! Depends on the turn and what you’re trying to achieve
Plus where you came from (uphill, downhill, rocks etc) can help determine this
@@mountainbikeacademy thanks man! Appreciate it!
Anytime :)
I love the way you explain all these things!
Very grateful to hear you think so! Appreciate it.
I only drop the outside foot (on purpose) in sand. Especially on a hardtail, you lose all your rear suspension (leg flex) if you drop a leg.
Have you done a review of the Primer? How do you like the Ohlins? Thanks!
I may if I get a ton of people asking. I really like the onlins very easy to set up and it’s got a good range of performance.
I didn't even think of this. I naturally level up. It just makes sense.
For all those who skipped physics class! 😆
Physics class was awesome. I had Mr. Swinney, a wild Irish guy who looked like einstein with crazy white hair
I think it depends on the corner and ideally you can learn what corners you can and can't drop your foot on safely.
It's the difference between railing a corner with berm and riding through flat switchbacks.
In traditional cornering, you drop the outside foot and weight it. When doing the pedal press in a corner, which foot leads?
You should experiment and find the answer for yourself.
Like your videos so far! Love the velocirax in the background. Just got mine and man what a great rack! 👍
It's solid for sure - I can't stand when racks move around it's a pet peeve. Velocirax is good -only downside is my kids are tiny people and their bikes don't quite fit. It's AWESOME for drives up to the mountains!!!
If I'll hate'em then they must work.
Haha
Thanks for that explained very well
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the video 👍
No problem 👍
Thank you!
Did you realise that in all the left corners, even there is a slight berm, your outward foot is down?? Yes it is. So your inner knee can open so your pelvis and bellybutton can lead the direction. You also get your outer knee to the frame, like when you ski and you want to cut your edges into the slope!
I think it also depends which of your feet is the front and back foot.
ooh - if you're talking about what I think you are you're absolutely correct - generally you need to have a slightly different shape to achieve turning in the direction of your forward foot (mine is left) yeah so I need to make a bit more room. Great eye!
Seem to apply equally on road bike. Question: on smooth road surface descends, do you get more traction having the outside leg down vs holding even as in your tip 1? (I tried both methods and both felt fine but just wondering which method would give more traction.)
I have no idea I’ve road biked like 10 times and I just end up trying to jump curbs and bunny hop stuff lol
Thanks for asking too! Sorry I can’t help
Good info but why the shade on ozempic?
Easy target. A drug you permanently have to be on because if you stop you gain back more weight than you lost?
That doesn’t sound like it fixes the root issue. I’m a HUGE believer in fixing root issue not symptoms.
Also it apparently (from my understanding) gives 50 percent of people very noticeable bad side effects.
Now, TH-cam ISNT coaching. But imagine if I were coaching a nice rider who really wanted to learn to jump.
And I chose an easy to learn method that guaranteed jumps as long as you used it but 50 percent of riders wash out on corners 100 percent of their rides… I’d not only have frustrated riders, I’d get bad reviews and shut down.
Hope that’s a fair answer.
If dropping the outside foot is Ozempic, then even pedals is Anavar. Haha I’m an “even pedal” guy.
Haha I have to google that
Is there a horse stance video that goes farther in depth ?
great tips
Appreciate ya! Anything in particular stand out for you?
MRI or CT Technologist? Or both?
Throwing your inside leg out does wonders when you need to turn extra hard without washing out.
Yeah don’t wash out - it’s a good technique as a backup for having traction
Don’t do that in anticipation. Just extend your legs through the turn. You create grip that way. The other thing is a bailing technique.
find this lesson now AFTER I washed out on the weekend... 🤣
lol!!
How’s your shin? Elbows ok???
I am going to be emotional on the bike!!! :D
lol I just kinda said that
Brillant! Thanks
You're welcome!
drop or not depends on the corner and terrain.
Good words bro!
What is your definition of the word ozempic?
I have been looking for it and its a diabetic drug.
It's used to lose weight fast, but has tons of side effects. Pharma companies making a ton not solving the root issue of poor diet/exercise/food quality etc.
I'm sure it's useful for some, not judging, but dang
This comment is probably already been made, but the other reason I've always dropped my outside pedal is that it allows a weightless inside foot to drop in case you start to wash out. I tried this technique today and that kept creeping into my head.. lol..
Probably because you got moves with a name like that
Came for the tech advice, stayed for the Mystery Method advice
I just wish I had a Mythbusters TV show budget and a crew I'd knock em dead lol. Thanks for hanging out!
such a good vid
My gy
Dropping outside pedals may be the most common bad advice out there. Its useful in like 5% of corners. Source? Every pro DH racer riding clips + my 20+ years riding experience.
Lol. The highschoolers giving advice on talking to women comment absolutely NAILS the "expert advice" all over youtube. If i learn nothing else from this video, that will stay with me.
Doin gods work over here lol
Time to train the wc dh field then, pretty much all of them drop the outside foot on loose, flat turns.
Drifting does not equal cornering
@@mountainbikeacademy where did I say drifting…..?
Well - if you listen to Neko Mulally's interview he says nobody drops outside foot, ever.
Loose, flat turns - the kind where they stick a foot out (like Sam Hill) are when they are drifting. So you are correct if we are talking about drifting.
@@mountainbikeacademy I’ve rewatched a bunch of recent wc dh footage and plenty of top riders drop their outside foot on long, flat corners without drifting that much.
Aaron gwin has a cornering video on youtube and he recommends to drop the foot to various degrees depending on the corner and amount of grip. In some cases he drops the outside foot completely.
Yeah he's not fully weighting it though. He's moving it there and using both feet to press equally.
Mayoris haka, as a kiwi that pronunciation just split my sides .
Coffee spit , biscuit choke you name it bawahahahah
Haha I’m 100% American at least I know you’re in New Zealand and not a fruit haha
@@mountainbikeacademy
Hehe some of me work mates think I'm a bit of a fruit cake .
lol
I learned two things: To corner and to ask a girl out.
I'd say the 20mins was worth it 😎
Good luck with Rachel tonight bro
Like anything hard you need to be fit to be good at it lol . Try skateboarding with a shit core . The horse stance is insane , did Wu chi for a few years . The horse stance will make most people shake in a few minutes . I think biking comes down to experience . Got a new mountain bike for just messing around , it has two cassettes . Would of never known how complicated it was to use . Might get it converted . Or just learn to use them correctly . Sram looks good for someone like me , I'm rather rough lol . I can brake any bike I recon .
Skaters are where I learned the pedal press they just do it sideways 😂 for real though you’re spot on
@@mountainbikeacademy Rofl
You turn the bike by rotating the hips period is that simple.
Learn how to do that properly and all the rest will follow .
Riding it’s very situational sometimes I have my foot down sometimes I don’t sometimes I have both of my hills down sometimes I have the wedge like you call it .
Agree on the situational part!
Ozempic?
Ok, not getting to the root cause. I get it pharma poison reference
Dropping a foot: Not saying you’re wrong but I will say Gwin, Richie Rude, Dak, and Asa would disagree.
Why would they disagree specifically?
You people have never rode oversized steel bikes as a kid, have you? The old 28 inch ones where you have to get your legs below the top bar and ride while standing? It seems to me that this entire video is just trying to explain that experience.
That’s exactly the huffy I had when I was a kid BIG OL top tube… green paint was awesome