Excellent input on a mystery that has baffled me for over 50 years, still no wiser though, it still seems impossible to melt rocks like these in a distant past. I saw a video experiment of vitrification of rocks a long time ago. They burnt many tons of wood and even stocked the fire with furniture! to keep the temperature high. They only managed to find a small sample of molten rock from the centre of the wall. This I assumed could have already been some of the rocks they built the Hill Fort Wall with!
I didn’t think of this. Makes so much sense in terms of why the rock is localized to certain places. Could have been due to a comet way before the forts were built.
Diehold Foundation, series 4, Part 1b and onwards. The presence of tektite beads on Mars, the Moon and Earth suggest the Solar Nova as being the cause, Doug Vogt has the theory very well explained, with evidence to support. Greetings from within view of both Tap o' Noth and Dunnideer hill forts.
Good stuff. I've only today come across your channel and decided to stay with it. For various reasons, my skeptical defense mechanisms get regularly triggered by the word "megalith" on TH-cam even though it's one of my main interests from prehistory (with my personal favourite being the alignments of Carnac). There is simply WAY too much fanciful speculation around these matters, so I appreciate finding people who keep with the facts and report what can be observed rather than wander off into inferences that require a lot of "faith" to work. Ancient people weren't morons but they weren't superhuman either.
That’s why I started the channel! Thanks for joining my community. Hope I can delve deep into these mysteries and solve some. I’ve still not been to Carnac but it’s on my list!
hi, Laura! i've always been fascinated by these hillforts but, i had no idea there were so many and they were built on the continent, also. the vitrification has stumped me since i first heard of it. now, i'm beginning to see some light on this. i don't do well with most scientific papers, too boring. but, with sites like yours, i find much more info without wading thru all the mud. thanks for an interesting, informative, and fun session on this fascinating subject. see you next time.
Thanks for your Channel !!I live in Aberdeenshire and have visited many hill forts and stone circles .There are lots up here.. never cease to amaze me there are some featured on my channel Thanks again.
Thanks for this! I have been to Tap o' Noth and Dunnideer a few times and photographed the vitrified stones. Arthur C Clarke featured the Tap o' Noth vitrification in one of his TV series episodes, I think you can find this on TH-cam, Martin.
Cool, thanks for the video. After replying to Vulpes vulpes below, I started thinking about the problem (which can have unintended consequences, or so folks tell me.) In India, human cremation is a daily occurrence along the Ganges, and wood is used for the funeral pyres. Pyres are built using alternating layers of wood with an air gap between each piece. A sustained temperature of roughly 1000 C is needed to cremate a human body - the large pyre with its open framework draws in a lot of air because the burning surface area of the fuel is so large. This raises the temperature, increasing the burn rate, and because air is rushing in from all sides, the heat plume is concentrated and rises through the top which is where the body is. The people who built the hill forts would have smelted copper and iron the same way - the ore is not placed under the fuel in the furnace, it is placed near the top, with more fuel on top to keep the ore from cooling. When the appropriate gods had been propitiated, the magic molten metal would flow out through the bottom. So what if the core of the stone walls were built, and then a pyre with rocks on top was set ablaze, with molten stone flowing down over the wall? (Or is the entire thickness and height of the wall vitrified?) The stone would get hotter, faster, on top of the pyre, just like ore in a smelter. The traces of timbers are there in the walls because as the fired burned, the pyre would eventually collapse and timbers would be trapped in it. And, what if the fire really was a funeral pyre, the cadaver surrounded or covered by rocks, so that their spirit, or essence, was bound into the molten rock which flowed onto the walls, protecting the inhabitants from outside evil spirits? (OK, ok, that is just wild speculation.) But once the entire circumference of the wall had been ritually endowed with their ancestors, one funeral at a time over many years, they would probably have to start a new one, hence the abandonment. (And, I am truly thankful that I don't have to break open all those rocks to find a bit of unburned bone or a tooth fragment to prove out this idea!)
Would have been very useful to have included photos of various examples of vitrified vs non-vitrified stone surface cross sections for comparison. That way, the viewer would have a better idea of what vitrification is, and how it presents itself. Thanks!
There are some Peruvian archaeological sites that also show vitrification of stone. Just a thought but this may have been a worldwide thing. For what or why I have no idea. But the speculations are endless. Anyhow… awesome job!
Agree with almost all your arguments. For me the only sensible explanation is the uncontrolled (either accidental or malicious) burning of a large pre existing wooden structure on top of the stone ramparts. I find it very hard to believe the vast quantities of wood were taken up to them just for the sake of burning stone walls, whether by attackers or the community themselves. If this is correct, it might be possible to estimate the size of the building by the extent of the vitrification. The 1937 experiment apparently used about 4t of wood on 12ft of wall. Obviously huge error bars with only one data point, but that would make quite an impressive structure...
Military burning techniques evolved over time as well. Is it possible to date the vitrification over multiple possible raisings or separate from construction? The pitch fire a domestic would use would burn significantly different from the oil fires or peat fires a follow on culture would use. In absence of further study of course, "there be dragons!" =)
Tinnis hill fort appears to have been torched around the time the Romans left as does trusties hill in Galloway a bit later according to carbon samples .Both were local power centres and the vitrification appears to have happened with these events.Thoughts are that this was done by Pictish war bands ,at Trusties there is Pictish carving on the top of the hill. Thoughts are these were statements for the locals about where the power now lay as these burning events would have been seen for days .Tinnis was later re occupied
Out of curiosity is the vitrification all on one side such as the East side? Does anyone know? Problem with wood fires would partly be from Rocks being cold sink or heat sinks. To get the rock really hot you need to draw the cold out of the rock. The thicker the rock the longer it takes. Ash from the fire acts as an insulation impeding heat. I’ve gone into cabins that were -40C and started a fire in thick metal wood stove. It can take up to an hour before the metal will be to hot to touch even with a roaring fire inside.
@@MegalithHunter I'm so so on the Cataclysm theory but it would be interesting if at least the places with heaviest damage were on the same side north east west or south. Don't go out of your path. Just curious.
thank you, another interesting topic. I heard about them before, but I didn't know there were so many of them. And like you, I don't think ritual burning is likely. Why to put all that time, efford and material and then just burn it? People had to worry about surviving, food and place to stay...they would not just waste it like that....Somehow Greek fire came to my mind, maybe they had something similar? Somebody here mentioned dragons... what do we know? all stories and myths are based on some grain of thruth...
I am fortunate enough to to have the view of a suspected Iron Age hillfort from the back of my house. I say suspected because it has the right shape and location on the top of a hill, but as far as anyone knows has never been excavated. It does not look to be large enough to be a defensive outpost for people, but it could have been used for short term protection of livestock from the natural predators that would have roamed the countryside. Now it's used for grazing cows.
Has anyone ever thought about people putting something like pitch or pine resin on the rock face and setting fire to it as a way of vitrifying the rock without massive amounts of timber?
Legend has it Scotland was influenced by an Egyptian princess. If anybody back then knew how to produce glass you would most likely have found them in Alexandria in Egypt or as counsellors of an Egyptian Royal person. And don't underestimate the Egyptian princesses of that time: Cleopatra for example was a renowed scientist herself. However, when people started to produce glass they were first of all interested in mirrors instead of windows Mirrors were considered to be useful for magical purposes. It is possible that it could also have served to protect a fortress. Imagine a bunch of superstitious pagans storming a fortress and then suddenly being dazzled by reflecting light. That might have given them second thoughts.... Like that the Sun god would attack then *lol*
Vitrification makes the stone hard to climb, thus it's one more barrier to an attacker(especially in the last line of defense where the chief and his family live. IMHO, lol
Exploding meteorite, maybe see if vitrification was caused from an airborne explosion that would allow for directional blast, say maybe all forts were melted from a direction, also someone left a sword on a stone that melted and trapped the sword until it was pulled up by the king.
Well! That’s not the typical history video. Oh goody! Something new to ponder. I have heard of these before. Nobody seems to know why. So I pulled my trusty copy of the field engineers hand book. I’ll quote in degrees centigrade for my non American friends. An open wood fire can reach 300 degrees Celsius. Aspirated ( ie forced draft air) as in a forge 500. Coal and charcoal in an open fire 400, aspirated 1000. Quartz melts at 1800 centigrade, glazes at 1000 dry, 850 wet. Yes. Odd that wet quartz melts easier than dry? Google confirms. Something going on there. Glass requires 1800 degrees for a good melt. So accidental vitrification as the timbers above and around the stone works burned seems unlikely. Most curious. Natural processes also don’t seem likely. There is for example natural glass in the Egyptian desert. Theorised to have been formed by a Tunguska-like event of an air burst meteor above the desert. Had such event occured no fort would remain standing. I also don’t think the Klingons did it with their disrupters. That leaves some chemical trick. Like Greek fire. We don’t know exactly what it was. We do have accounts that it was able to melt bronze. My book says thats 977 degrees Celsius. Into the range to melt or glaze quartz. First noted in Byzantium in 672, could it predate that back into the Bronze Age? No clue. Guess we have one more mystery to ponder over. Fox out.
Unfortunately, I think on the matter of wood fires, the handbook is incorrect. It is common practice to cremate the dead in Hindu funerary practice even today - the primary fuel is wood and to cremate a human body requires sustained heat of approximately 1000 C, dependent on the specific size and body type. I don't know if there is something else flammable added to the pyre, but it probably isn't necessary. Pyres are built by cross stacking the logs in alternating layers, with space between each piece of wood. I think it is because the surface area of the fuel is very large that the plume of hot air is also large, and therefore draws in a huge amount of air, which increases the rate of burning and therefore the heat level. The inrush of air around the sides leads to a concentration of the heat plume rising from the top/center.
Would not these buildings be clad in peat to keep the heat in? If there was enough peat and a high enough wind it might have caused enough heat? Probably accidental or done out of malice
Excellent input on a mystery that has baffled me for over 50 years, still no wiser though, it still seems impossible to melt rocks like these in a distant past. I saw a video experiment of vitrification of rocks a long time ago. They burnt many tons of wood and even stocked the fire with furniture! to keep the temperature high. They only managed to find a small sample of molten rock from the centre of the wall. This I assumed could have already been some of the rocks they built the Hill Fort Wall with!
I didn’t think of this. Makes so much sense in terms of why the rock is localized to certain places. Could have been due to a comet way before the forts were built.
How about peat piled up and saturated with animal fat. That would get very hot
I like the animal fat and peat method(I thought of peat after I posted my theory; lots of it about....maybe even some bitumin?)
@@MegalithHunter Would any solar activity capable of reaching us be considered?
Diehold Foundation, series 4, Part 1b and onwards. The presence of tektite beads on Mars, the Moon and Earth suggest the Solar Nova as being the cause, Doug Vogt has the theory very well explained, with evidence to support. Greetings from within view of both Tap o' Noth and Dunnideer hill forts.
Brilliant. Informative without overbearing, incomprehensible, detail. Keeps me eager for more. Well done
Interesting overview of this intriguing mystery. Thanks.
Thanks a lot!
Good stuff. I've only today come across your channel and decided to stay with it. For various reasons, my skeptical defense mechanisms get regularly triggered by the word "megalith" on TH-cam even though it's one of my main interests from prehistory (with my personal favourite being the alignments of Carnac). There is simply WAY too much fanciful speculation around these matters, so I appreciate finding people who keep with the facts and report what can be observed rather than wander off into inferences that require a lot of "faith" to work. Ancient people weren't morons but they weren't superhuman either.
That’s why I started the channel! Thanks for joining my community. Hope I can delve deep into these mysteries and solve some. I’ve still not been to Carnac but it’s on my list!
hi, Laura! i've always been fascinated by these hillforts but, i had no idea there were so many and they were built on the continent, also. the vitrification has stumped me since i first heard of it. now, i'm beginning to see some light on this. i don't do well with most scientific papers, too boring. but, with sites like yours, i find much more info without wading thru all the mud. thanks for an interesting, informative, and fun session on this fascinating subject. see you next time.
Thanks Floyd! Will keep delving into mysteries.
@@MegalithHunter great! you delve, i'll be lazy and watch.
Thanks for your Channel !!I live in Aberdeenshire and have visited many hill forts and stone circles .There are lots up here.. never cease to amaze me there are some featured on my channel Thanks again.
Thanks for this! I have been to Tap o' Noth and Dunnideer a few times and photographed the vitrified stones. Arthur C Clarke featured the Tap o' Noth vitrification in one of his TV series episodes, I think you can find this on TH-cam, Martin.
Cool, thanks for the video. After replying to Vulpes vulpes below, I started thinking about the problem (which can have unintended consequences, or so folks tell me.) In India, human cremation is a daily occurrence along the Ganges, and wood is used for the funeral pyres. Pyres are built using alternating layers of wood with an air gap between each piece. A sustained temperature of roughly 1000 C is needed to cremate a human body - the large pyre with its open framework draws in a lot of air because the burning surface area of the fuel is so large. This raises the temperature, increasing the burn rate, and because air is rushing in from all sides, the heat plume is concentrated and rises through the top which is where the body is. The people who built the hill forts would have smelted copper and iron the same way - the ore is not placed under the fuel in the furnace, it is placed near the top, with more fuel on top to keep the ore from cooling. When the appropriate gods had been propitiated, the magic molten metal would flow out through the bottom.
So what if the core of the stone walls were built, and then a pyre with rocks on top was set ablaze, with molten stone flowing down over the wall? (Or is the entire thickness and height of the wall vitrified?) The stone would get hotter, faster, on top of the pyre, just like ore in a smelter. The traces of timbers are there in the walls because as the fired burned, the pyre would eventually collapse and timbers would be trapped in it.
And, what if the fire really was a funeral pyre, the cadaver surrounded or covered by rocks, so that their spirit, or essence, was bound into the molten rock which flowed onto the walls, protecting the inhabitants from outside evil spirits? (OK, ok, that is just wild speculation.) But once the entire circumference of the wall had been ritually endowed with their ancestors, one funeral at a time over many years, they would probably have to start a new one, hence the abandonment. (And, I am truly thankful that I don't have to break open all those rocks to find a bit of unburned bone or a tooth fragment to prove out this idea!)
Gosh that’s quite the theory but I like it! Very possible I feel. But why only in Scotland? 🤔
@@MegalithHunter I blame it on the hagus. 🤣
@@farranger275 hahahaha
Would have been very useful to have included photos of various examples of vitrified vs non-vitrified stone surface cross sections for comparison. That way, the viewer would have a better idea of what vitrification is, and how it presents itself. Thanks!
Very mysterious! There must be a logical answer. I’ll stay with you on it. Thanks for your work!
There are some Peruvian archaeological sites that also show vitrification of stone. Just a thought but this may have been a worldwide thing. For what or why I have no idea. But the speculations are endless. Anyhow… awesome job!
Agree with almost all your arguments.
For me the only sensible explanation is the uncontrolled (either accidental or malicious) burning of a large pre existing wooden structure on top of the stone ramparts. I find it very hard to believe the vast quantities of wood were taken up to them just for the sake of burning stone walls, whether by attackers or the community themselves.
If this is correct, it might be possible to estimate the size of the building by the extent of the vitrification. The 1937 experiment apparently used about 4t of wood on 12ft of wall. Obviously huge error bars with only one data point, but that would make quite an impressive structure...
Military burning techniques evolved over time as well. Is it possible to date the vitrification over multiple possible raisings or separate from construction? The pitch fire a domestic would use would burn significantly different from the oil fires or peat fires a follow on culture would use. In absence of further study of course, "there be dragons!" =)
Fascinating topic I am not sure about intentional but battles with natfa weapons maybe or some legends even mention a comet Thank you 🤗👍
There was a Comet in 562 AD.
Good point!
Hi sis 💞😻🕊️
@@lynnmitzy1643 hello🤗💕
@@ZiggyDan yes i read about it 👍 and saw Time Team special about it i think
Tinnis hill fort appears to have been torched around the time the Romans left as does trusties hill in Galloway a bit later according to carbon samples .Both were local power centres and the vitrification appears to have happened with these events.Thoughts are that this was done by Pictish war bands ,at Trusties there is Pictish carving on the top of the hill.
Thoughts are these were statements for the locals about where the power now lay as these burning events would have been seen for days .Tinnis was later re occupied
Thank you, Laura💐🌺🕊️
Out of curiosity is the vitrification all on one side such as the East side? Does anyone know? Problem with wood fires would partly be from Rocks being cold sink or heat sinks. To get the rock really hot you need to draw the cold out of the rock. The thicker the rock the longer it takes. Ash from the fire acts as an insulation impeding heat. I’ve gone into cabins that were -40C and started a fire in thick metal wood stove. It can take up to an hour before the metal will be to hot to touch even with a roaring fire inside.
Not sure, would need to look into it
@@MegalithHunter I'm so so on the Cataclysm theory but it would be interesting if at least the places with heaviest damage were on the same side north east west or south. Don't go out of your path. Just curious.
There was sun eruptions of some sort that occurred quite often. Event from Charlemagne was one of these events
thank you, another interesting topic. I heard about them before, but I didn't know there were so many of them. And like you, I don't think ritual burning is likely. Why to put all that time, efford and material and then just burn it? People had to worry about surviving, food and place to stay...they would not just waste it like that....Somehow Greek fire came to my mind, maybe they had something similar? Somebody here mentioned dragons... what do we know? all stories and myths are based on some grain of thruth...
are there similarities between other cases of vitrification in other parts of the world in prehistory settlements?
I haven’t seen anything in the research which makes such a comparison.
@@MegalithHunter maybe a thing to look into
I am fortunate enough to to have the view of a suspected Iron Age hillfort from the back of my house. I say suspected because it has the right shape and location on the top of a hill, but as far as anyone knows has never been excavated. It does not look to be large enough to be a defensive outpost for people, but it could have been used for short term protection of livestock from the natural predators that would have roamed the countryside. Now it's used for grazing cows.
What are the oldest legends around those sights? It may give some insight on what was going on their.
Has anyone ever thought about people putting something like pitch or pine resin on the rock face and setting fire to it as a way of vitrifying the rock without massive amounts of timber?
You can use locally avsilable peat..and possinly even lignite..it would burn as hot as coal and could have been fanned by high winds
@@skerriesrockart yeah, that's good; didn't think of peat.
The ancients used fire to break rock, usually. I found bedrock at Hagar Qim that appears vitrified.
Oh wow
More illustrations would help. Perhaps you could video a walk around a hill fort.
If I were there I would. That’s all I could get hold of that’s under a Creative Commons licence. Will do a follow up in future.
Legend has it Scotland was influenced by an Egyptian princess. If anybody back then knew how to produce glass you would most likely have found them in Alexandria in Egypt or as counsellors of an Egyptian Royal person. And don't underestimate the Egyptian princesses of that time: Cleopatra for example was a renowed scientist herself. However, when people started to produce glass they were first of all interested in mirrors instead of windows Mirrors were considered to be useful for magical purposes. It is possible that it could also have served to protect a fortress. Imagine a bunch of superstitious pagans storming a fortress and then suddenly being dazzled by reflecting light. That might have given them second thoughts.... Like that the Sun god would attack then *lol*
Ah yes I’ve heard the link with Ancient Egypt before.
Ah yes. Queen Scotia. Fun fact: If an Arab says Tuath de Dannan, it sounds exactly like Tutankahmun.
@@ancientbuilds3764 I couldn't tell. I don't have many conversations in Arabic these days.
Vitrification makes the stone hard to climb, thus it's one more barrier to an attacker(especially in the last line of defense where the chief and his family live.
IMHO, lol
Yes, and very pretty as well. Lets not exclude vanity. Again, "Glass Castles", in myth and legend.
Exploding meteorite, maybe see if vitrification was caused from an airborne explosion that would allow for directional blast, say maybe all forts were melted from a direction, also someone left a sword on a stone that melted and trapped the sword until it was pulled up by the king.
Also a meteorite or a bunch of them are suspected of ending the ice age and starting the great flood and that's about when the time line shows.
Well! That’s not the typical history video. Oh goody! Something new to ponder. I have heard of these before. Nobody seems to know why. So I pulled my trusty copy of the field engineers hand book. I’ll quote in degrees centigrade for my non American friends.
An open wood fire can reach 300 degrees Celsius. Aspirated ( ie forced draft air) as in a forge 500.
Coal and charcoal in an open fire 400, aspirated 1000.
Quartz melts at 1800 centigrade, glazes at 1000 dry, 850 wet. Yes. Odd that wet quartz melts easier than dry? Google confirms. Something going on there.
Glass requires 1800 degrees for a good melt.
So accidental vitrification as the timbers above and around the stone works burned seems unlikely. Most curious.
Natural processes also don’t seem likely. There is for example natural glass in the Egyptian desert. Theorised to have been formed by a Tunguska-like event of an air burst meteor above the desert. Had such event occured no fort would remain standing. I also don’t think the Klingons did it with their disrupters.
That leaves some chemical trick. Like Greek fire. We don’t know exactly what it was. We do have accounts that it was able to melt bronze. My book says thats 977 degrees Celsius. Into the range to melt or glaze quartz. First noted in Byzantium in 672, could it predate that back into the Bronze Age? No clue.
Guess we have one more mystery to ponder over.
Fox out.
Unfortunately, I think on the matter of wood fires, the handbook is incorrect. It is common practice to cremate the dead in Hindu funerary practice even today - the primary fuel is wood and to cremate a human body requires sustained heat of approximately 1000 C, dependent on the specific size and body type. I don't know if there is something else flammable added to the pyre, but it probably isn't necessary. Pyres are built by cross stacking the logs in alternating layers, with space between each piece of wood. I think it is because the surface area of the fuel is very large that the plume of hot air is also large, and therefore draws in a huge amount of air, which increases the rate of burning and therefore the heat level. The inrush of air around the sides leads to a concentration of the heat plume rising from the top/center.
Just a thought: what WAS the original rock? Was it quartz? Do different rock types vitrify at different temps?
I bet the tribes whose hillforts WEREN'T vitrified torched ones that were. Or something like that...
Good luck. Every time i hear a theory on these forts i don't find myself agreeing but i know I have no idea.
So no aliens or time travelling T-800s with plasma rifles?
Disappointing.
Haha 😂😅
Is coal found locally?
COMET 562 AD
They must have used large amounts of animal fat.
gorse burnt
Would not these buildings be clad in peat to keep the heat in? If there was enough peat and a high enough wind it might have caused enough heat? Probably accidental or done out of malice
id bet the same what created the grail myth's wasteland, and similar effects in the bolivian andes at the same time wiki/Chelyabinsk_meteor