Some type of plague passing through the population would explain the decline. People in those times might have lived in isolated communities and had little resistance to a new strain of contagious disease. The textile fragment is fascinating. It’s wonderful when something like that survives. Thanks for sharing Laura! Much appreciated!
The first paper is a very important one: not just because it clearly establishes a devastating first plague, coincident more or less with the Indoeuropean takeover (Corded Ware culture), but also because it reveals (supp. materials) which Y-DNA haplogroups are related to Basque-like Neolithic Scandinavians (I2a1) and to their Indoeuropean replacement (I1 mostly).
I made a video about this a few months ago - but based in the UK. One of the oldest cases in Britain was found in the Lake District, in a ‘ring cairn’ (c. 2300 BC). A style of monument characteristic of the very earliest Bronze Age in Britain.! Love the video as always! Adam M I
Inorder for this to happen , then trade networks must have been a lot more extensive than previously thought or the plague broke out in several places at once ( probably not likely but not outside the realm of possibility ) Extremely interesting video !!
Or, like north american natives, the population attempted to flee the disease, and carried it to new victims. Exactly what happened in the mid 19th centurey, on the northwest coast of n america, and on the plains, in recorded history. Virgin feild epidemic. Entire languages and lineages were wiped out, and the consensus is this happened from 1st contact, repeatedly, with more than one disease, continent wide. Often, among people with no direct contact with europeans, through trade networks and refugees.
I agree about trade networks. Which did exist. But travel times were extremely long (days, not hours or weeks, not days) and did not involve multiple contacts at each point of contact. Trade networks WERE more extensive. The arkie world has been very slow to admit of such a possibility. Clovis, for example, had hundreds of sites in the eastern USA, eveen in that time - 10,000 years earlier than the neilithic. And there were zero known or sudpected human genetic samples - just the tech dispersed almost everywhere. Strongly arguing that the points moved, but likely not from people movement, gien the disparity.
@@stevegarcia3731 well, clovis is a lot too far back, and lacking in physical evidence to speculate about, beyond what we know of trade networks worldwide. Most were likely of the 'baton race' style, relaying goods over long disrances. And travel was, like european elites, a matter of going from host to host, with relatives and allies wherever possible. Without the germ theory of disease, aid and comfort for the afflicted was usually a group effort. People fled the PLACE that mqde them sick, and might blame a person, or group of people for hostile magic. Again, to be avoided as dangerous, by relocating to freindlier places and people.
Here in south Dublin , a place called Tallaght , translated as the plague grave of the parthalon . according to annals , Parthalon was the 3rd invader , there people all died from a plague about 20 years after they arrived
With the coarseness of the piece of textile, I would not expect it to have contained exotically sourced dyes. Always interesting what science can prove.
Great research. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. That the remarkable good luck of humans living in Eurasia which brought them an abundance of species they could domesticate would lead to these recurring plagues underscores how even our modern immune systems are still the defense that ultimately allows us to advance in a changing world. Cheers.
I always feel so intellectual after watching your videos! Sadly it wears off all too soon. Just have to enjoy it while it lasts. Oops! there it goes! Fox out.
Thanks for the overview. Informative, but I subscribed because you actually used the singular, bacterium, when referring to one species. Singular forms of all sorts of technical terms (e.g. bacterium, larva, phenomenon) are being replaced by their plurals (e.g. bacteria, larvae, phenomena). I'm not sure if this is from ignorance or just a normal part of language evolution, but I do resent the loss of information when only plurals are used. As you can tell, I am a bit pedantic, but I would check your pronunciation of Campeche - it is a Mexican state and the Spanish pronunciation would seem appropriate, but if it is derived from a Mayan language, then perhaps your pronunciation makes sense.
There was a big change in the climate at this time also, the desertification of the fertile crescent also happened at this same time. The evidence points to the Burckle Crater with the chevrons on Madagascar dating to this period and the tsunami deposits on the west coast of Australia also confirming the date. This is Noahs flood or the Epic of Gilgamesh as the tsunami entered the fertile crescent and with the elevation being only 40m the wave travelled hundreds of miles inland. So in reality the outer planetary body caused the Neolithic collapse followed by famine then disease...
Communicable diseases require close quarter villages and habitations. Hunter-gatherers did not have the wide spread wanderings, that later agricultural trading routes had. Trade routes were the vector for the spread of most diseases.
Responsible seems a bit strong contributed certainly, but a far more likely and stronger contribution was the Influx of the steppes derived indo european corded ware and bell beaker cultures.
PS Spain etc is in the West Greece however is in the East. Never ask directions from an Archaeologist or Architect. Ok I might be biased being an Engineer 😮
Goodbye Funnelbeaker people. You should have washed your hands more often. On a serious note, I wonder what they could have done at the time. Yersinia pestis is bad news.
The ability to do DNA analysis can make archaeology of the past look rather shallow. I'm pleased, though, that it's showing so much agreement with the findings of the late, great Dr. Maria Gimbutas. BTW, "Campeche" in Mexico is pronounced "cam-pay-chay" ["ch" as in "cheese"], not "cam-pesh." It's Spanish, not French.
Hi, I recently had my Y-DNA tested and have found that I am downstream from people who were associated with the Funnelbeaker culture, of thirty ancient DNA connections six were found to have been contaminated with the early plague. I am lucky that my ancestors were smart enough to flee the area or fortunate enough to have developed some immunity to the disease. My basic haplogroup is I-2a if anyone is interested.
Around 3:50. Isn't the "European neolithic populations" and "Anatolian farmers" the same? (EEF = Early European Farmers?) There where not 2 separate farmer populations in Scandinavia at that time?
I see no chance of that passing in that era. Populations were far too scattered and low in numbers. Distancing was their life. It is a valid question, but hardly possibly, numerically speaking. Plagues in hustorical times start and spread out from population centers, not in tiny villages.
Misleading to suggest the was only one pandemic in recorded history. So, there is no such thing as ""The Plague." Humanity has faced multiple instances of pandemic in history.
at least we know that the only problem with the rats is Not that they just need more food and opportunity ...... All that suffering, just to learn that. eat every scrap of your food, there are starving children in africa. ( used to mean, we need to keep up our strength, but how would people pay for their heroin now a days? right? ) the suffering isn't over yet, we are very rapidly running out of topsoil and fossil water resources......sub-saharna African breed faster than the food grows until there is nothing left, because they are genetically adapted to cannibalism for the same reason.... ( and records show they will always do that to the extent that their available means can provide, they now have everything they need to crash the entire planet into single celled organisms struggling to adapt to a different planetary chemistry )......cannibalism does not work for all of us, anyone else would fall ill, is that fair? it's a supply and demand food system, and we honestly need to provide public access to the "politically incorrect science" on this.
I feel like it would be weird if we didn't find evidence of plague in our distant past.
Some type of plague passing through the population would explain the decline. People in those times might have lived in isolated communities and had little resistance to a new strain of contagious disease. The textile fragment is fascinating. It’s wonderful when something like that survives. Thanks for sharing Laura! Much appreciated!
If you carefully read the paper is not just "passing through" but rather killing nearly everyone (with some uncertainty of course but most likely).
The first paper is a very important one: not just because it clearly establishes a devastating first plague, coincident more or less with the Indoeuropean takeover (Corded Ware culture), but also because it reveals (supp. materials) which Y-DNA haplogroups are related to Basque-like Neolithic Scandinavians (I2a1) and to their Indoeuropean replacement (I1 mostly).
I made a video about this a few months ago - but based in the UK. One of the oldest cases in Britain was found in the Lake District, in a ‘ring cairn’ (c. 2300 BC). A style of monument characteristic of the very earliest Bronze Age in Britain.!
Love the video as always!
Adam M I
I enjoy your channel so I subscribed. Keep up the good work.
Thanks a lot :)
Thanks! I am a possessor of the modified immune T-Cell so the plague is a source of fascination and interest for me.
Inorder for this to happen , then trade networks must have been a lot more extensive than previously thought or the plague broke out in several places at once ( probably not likely but not outside the realm of possibility ) Extremely interesting video !!
Or, like north american natives, the population attempted to flee the disease, and carried it to new victims. Exactly what happened in the mid 19th centurey, on the northwest coast of n america, and on the plains, in recorded history. Virgin feild epidemic. Entire languages and lineages were wiped out, and the consensus is this happened from 1st contact, repeatedly, with more than one disease, continent wide. Often, among people with no direct contact with europeans, through trade networks and refugees.
I agree about trade networks. Which did exist. But travel times were extremely long (days, not hours or weeks, not days) and did not involve multiple contacts at each point of contact.
Trade networks WERE more extensive. The arkie world has been very slow to admit of such a possibility. Clovis, for example, had hundreds of sites in the eastern USA, eveen in that time - 10,000 years earlier than the neilithic. And there were zero known or sudpected human genetic samples - just the tech dispersed almost everywhere. Strongly arguing that the points moved, but likely not from people movement, gien the disparity.
@@stevegarcia3731 well, clovis is a lot too far back, and lacking in physical evidence to speculate about, beyond what we know of trade networks worldwide. Most were likely of the 'baton race' style, relaying goods over long disrances. And travel was, like european elites, a matter of going from host to host, with relatives and allies wherever possible. Without the germ theory of disease, aid and comfort for the afflicted was usually a group effort. People fled the PLACE that mqde them sick, and might blame a person, or group of people for hostile magic. Again, to be avoided as dangerous, by relocating to freindlier places and people.
Generally speaking, we are finding that trade networks were more extensive than thought earlier. So I'd say you can bet on that assumption being true.
Many thanks for saving me your effort. Wonderful channel.
Your videos are really cool! Thank you for making this!
Here in south Dublin , a place called Tallaght , translated as the plague grave of the parthalon .
according to annals , Parthalon was the 3rd invader , there people all died from a plague about 20 years after they arrived
I love your vids always interesting
interesting, thank you for the video
With the coarseness of the piece of textile, I would not expect it to have contained exotically sourced dyes.
Always interesting what science can prove.
I was thinking the same thing, but assumed the fragments were very small and enlarging the image then makes them look coarse.
Delighted to have found you! ❤
Brilliant as always
Fabulous as always, thanks 😊
Great research. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. That the remarkable good luck of humans living in Eurasia which brought them an abundance of species they could domesticate would lead to these recurring plagues underscores how even our modern immune systems are still the defense that ultimately allows us to advance in a changing world. Cheers.
Great presentation. 🙂👍
I always feel so intellectual after watching your videos! Sadly it wears off all too soon. Just have to enjoy it while it lasts. Oops! there it goes!
Fox out.
Thanks for the overview. Informative, but I subscribed because you actually used the singular, bacterium, when referring to one species. Singular forms of all sorts of technical terms (e.g. bacterium, larva, phenomenon) are being replaced by their plurals (e.g. bacteria, larvae, phenomena). I'm not sure if this is from ignorance or just a normal part of language evolution, but I do resent the loss of information when only plurals are used. As you can tell, I am a bit pedantic, but I would check your pronunciation of Campeche - it is a Mexican state and the Spanish pronunciation would seem appropriate, but if it is derived from a Mayan language, then perhaps your pronunciation makes sense.
thank you! I hit your bell :)
Good no B/S video didn't here the phrase ancient aliens once! Remarkable.
Thanks
Wow!
There was a big change in the climate at this time also, the desertification of the fertile crescent also happened at this same time. The evidence points to the Burckle Crater with the chevrons on Madagascar dating to this period and the tsunami deposits on the west coast of Australia also confirming the date. This is Noahs flood or the Epic of Gilgamesh as the tsunami entered the fertile crescent and with the elevation being only 40m the wave travelled hundreds of miles inland. So in reality the outer planetary body caused the Neolithic collapse followed by famine then disease...
Whoah, that's a whopper of a video!
Communicable diseases require close quarter villages and habitations. Hunter-gatherers did not have the wide spread wanderings, that later agricultural trading routes had. Trade routes were the vector for the spread of most diseases.
Responsible seems a bit strong contributed certainly, but a far more likely and stronger contribution was the Influx of the steppes derived indo european corded ware and bell beaker cultures.
thnks
I like an idea that it was mold. As naturally it was't present a lot and with a/c monoculture fields spread a lot.
What I want to know is: who was the first person to squash a snail at that very particular time and get the idea for purple dye?
Good question 😂
Yes.
PS Spain etc is in the West Greece however is in the East.
Never ask directions from an Archaeologist or Architect. Ok I might be biased being an Engineer 😮
Actually, it was herniatic slipped discs.
Goodbye Funnelbeaker people.
You should have washed your hands more often.
On a serious note, I wonder what they could have done at the time. Yersinia pestis is bad news.
😮
The ability to do DNA analysis can make archaeology of the past look rather shallow. I'm pleased, though, that it's showing so much agreement with the findings of the late, great Dr. Maria Gimbutas.
BTW, "Campeche" in Mexico is pronounced "cam-pay-chay" ["ch" as in "cheese"], not "cam-pesh." It's Spanish, not French.
Hi, I recently had my Y-DNA tested and have found that I am downstream from people who were associated with the Funnelbeaker culture, of thirty ancient DNA connections six were found to have been contaminated with the early plague. I am lucky that my ancestors were smart enough to flee the area or fortunate enough to have developed some immunity to the disease. My basic haplogroup is I-2a if anyone is interested.
This all happened nearly 6000 years ago.
Frälsegården, Rössberga and Hunnebostrand were the areas involved.
It is not pronounced "Campech" it is Campeche. The final "e" is pronounced in the same manner as the first one.
Around 3:50. Isn't the "European neolithic populations" and "Anatolian farmers" the same? (EEF = Early European Farmers?) There where not 2 separate farmer populations in Scandinavia at that time?
I guess one of them are the Pitted Ware Culture in the diagram.
I've been studying with the theory that they died all at once by the world wide flood that then caused Pangea to separate.
I see no chance of that passing in that era. Populations were far too scattered and low in numbers. Distancing was their life.
It is a valid question, but hardly possibly, numerically speaking. Plagues in hustorical times start and spread out from population centers, not in tiny villages.
Not sure about Plague as that would have to reach Britain by Sea, Avian Flu on the other hand has no boundaries.
💋
Was actually due to a time wormhole dumping a million fully charged I phones and an intermittent Starlink connection causing extreme depression.
Treponema? The history of treponema seems to be strong onset and extremely gradual weakening over deep time.
Misleading to suggest the was only one pandemic in recorded history. So, there is no such thing as ""The Plague." Humanity has faced multiple instances of pandemic in history.
Actually, she is describing a specific disease, Proto-Yersinia Pestis that many ancient DNA samples have been tested and found positive for.
Lol, you are off topic
at least we know that the only problem with the rats is Not that they just need more food and opportunity ...... All that suffering, just to learn that.
eat every scrap of your food, there are starving children in africa. ( used to mean, we need to keep up our strength, but how would people pay for their heroin now a days? right? )
the suffering isn't over yet, we are very rapidly running out of topsoil and fossil water resources......sub-saharna African breed faster than the food grows until there is nothing left, because they are genetically adapted to cannibalism for the same reason....
( and records show they will always do that to the extent that their available means can provide, they now have everything they need to crash the entire planet into single celled organisms struggling to adapt to a different planetary chemistry )......cannibalism does not work for all of us, anyone else would fall ill, is that fair?
it's a supply and demand food system, and we honestly need to provide public access to the "politically incorrect science" on this.