This is for people who think Mario is outer (If you don’t think Mario is outer then don’t read this) **Debunking the Extra-Dimensional Expansion Argument** While the Super Mario 64 Nintendo Guide Book does refer to Big Boos as extra-dimensional, this does not inherently imply that the entire Mario cosmology transcends conventional spacetime with multiple dimensions. Here are a few points to consider: **Specific Reference:** The guidebook's designation of Big Boos as extra-dimensional is limited to their ghostly nature and ability to traverse the walls of Big Boo's Haunt. It does not explicitly state that the entire world or other dimensions in Mario are extra-dimensional. **Other Dimensions:** Various Mario games feature worlds or levels that seem disconnected from the main world, such as the Mushroom Kingdom, Koopa Kingdom, or Darklands. However, these dimensions are typically accessed through portals or power-ups, and they do not exhibit the same extra-dimensional characteristics as Big Boo's Haunt. **Contradictory Evidence:** Other guidebooks for Mario games, as well as the in-game dialogue and level design, consistently portray the Mario universe as a three-dimensional world, with no indication of extra dimensions beyond that. For example, the Mario Odyssey Guide Book states that Mario's world is a "3D sandbox" that players can explore freely. **Consistency in Lore:** Throughout the Mario franchise, there is a consistent portrayal of characters, locations, and events that align with a three-dimensional world. From Mario's platforming adventures to the layout of levels and the interactions between characters, there is no substantial evidence to suggest that Mario's world operates beyond the confines of conventional space and time. **Philosophical Considerations:** The idea of extra-dimensional expansion in the Mario universe also raises philosophical questions about the nature of reality within the game. If Mario and his world were truly existing in higher dimensions, how would this impact the actions and interactions of the characters? Would Mario be able to perceive and interact with these extra dimensions, or would they remain hidden from his perspective? **Narrative Coherence:** From a storytelling perspective, the introduction of extra-dimensional expansion in the Mario universe may detract from the overall coherence and consistency of the narrative. By maintaining a clear and concrete understanding of the world in which Mario exists, players are able to better engage with the characters and settings without the distraction of convoluted cosmological theories. **Fan Theories vs. Canon:** While fan theories and interpretations of the Mario universe can be entertaining and thought-provoking, it is important to distinguish between speculative ideas and established canon. Unless there is concrete evidence within the games or official materials to support the notion of extra-dimensional expansion, it is best to approach such theories with a critical eye and a healthy dose of skepticism. cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1209416355560955944/image0.png?ex=66277141&is=6614fc41&hm=4dcf8ebbe837b8b6f7ab8d46e6329fbc0464e085a4aeb26029b711d1d7677249&
Now let me add something, this scan that some use, that bowser warpid orbit "trancends space and time", Its a mistranslation as in the japanese version it doesnt say that. cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1222305621249101875/IMG_20231102_112857.png?ex=662830d1&is=6615bbd1&hm=12830b6bd9503d19420a395369b97e3cafbe82a24954c5c91a6f77a5ee6c01c6& cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1222305621567864983/Captura_de_ecra_2024-03-22_121051.png?ex=662830d1&is=6615bbd1&hm=5d90b530368c13e76609ca6d3ed4ddda60f6c2a0ef388abd49ca6bacfec4b7ea& cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1222305621840498708/Captura_de_ecra_2024-03-22_120638.png?ex=662830d1&is=6615bbd1&hm=380249eac2013ec46a717a28d08393f5cb4a707e791caa3dc0841b6c2e4cacd1&
You clearly don’t know what extra-dimensional means and are just going with what you like more Hastly generalization and hitchen razor the afterlife is mentioned multiple times in the Luigi mansion series and the guidebook specifically state that Mario 64 worlds are copies of the main world 🤦 Mf is seriously confusing gameplay for lore 🤦 dear lord ig neither comp sonic gets past 3D even in wario games extra-dimensional portals are cited Existence ≠ ap if sonic is actually higher dimensional then why doesn’t he view all the people he meets as 2D ? Narratively speaking sonic doesn’t get past 3D stop confusing gameplay for lore Prove physically sonic gets above 3D this isn’t canon even a debunk it just “ I don’t like the Mario series so I’m ignoring all the arguments that get it above 3D” Also imagine using geburah and vs battle wiki as a source 💀 Miss translation there miss translation that yet you showed the wrong scan and all these so called debunks got debunked more times that I can count Higher dimensions in Mario are present in Mario 64, galaxy,galaxy 2, wario games, paper Mario color splash, paper Mario sticker star, super Mario rpg, Mario and Luigi dream team, super paper Mario etc.
Excalibur596 already made a great video on this topic. He didn’t even need to pull feats from Archie Sonic which is a different continuity entirely. It’d be like non-specifying or clarifying Aquaman vs SpongeBob but only pulling from his 1960s cartoon feats.
slight correction, at the end of mario galaxy bowser didn't tank the explotion, the lumas reseted the universe shortly after so im pretty sure they reseted bowser too
Here are both of their feats (I'm only using their video game appearances, any other form of media doesn't count) Both: - They both can react outside of time itself - They both survived falling from outer space - They both can breath in outer space - They both have fought gods - They both have destroyed giant robots Mario: - He can deflect asteroids - He has an army of mini Marios (who can lift Girders individually and use the same abilities he can) - He has fought Donkey Kong (aka, the guy who punched the moon out of orbit) - He has a collection of both invinsible and destructive power-ups (like the White Tanooki/Cat suit and the Golden Flower) and dozens of cloning power-ups (like the Cherries or the Copy Flower) - He can summon his own stars - He can survive being completely crushed - He lifted King Bomb-Omb and threw him - He can punch so hard that he can duplicate the thing he punches - He has the power of the star spirits - He can firebend - He can grow into a giant at will - He has driven the Star Diver - He has a stopwatch that can control time itself - He was a WW2 soldier - He has a magic hat that can possess anyone it desires - He can turn invisible, control nature, glide, superjump (which he could originally do), detect invisible items, generate ! Blocks, and grant him any power-up he wishes with the Badges - He can manipulate reality with the Wonder Flower - He has knowledge of the entire universe - He has defeated Dreamy Bowser, Culex, Dimentio, Angry Sun, Megabug, Cursa, and the Ruined Dragon - He can control reality with the Wonder Flower/s Sonic: - He can run so fast that he can time travel - He has fought Knuckles - He can destroy metal by spindashing - He can wield the excalibur - He has a variety of different transformations (Hyper Sonic being the strongest) - He has flown across the Solar System as Super Sonic - He has the power of the wisps - He has a shield that deflects all elements - He can clone himself, breath underwater (he technically becomes the water, which will take away his physical form underwater), control time, detect invisible things, control nature, and turn into a fireball with the Chaos Emeralds - He can boost, which increases his insanely broken speed - He has defeated Time Eater, Dark Gaia, Infinite, and Mephiles - He can generate energy blasts from his fists It depends on how the situation plays out (whether Capy is with Mario or not, if the Chaos Emeralds have already turned into Super Emeralds or not, or what badges Mario has equipped at the time) Either way, they wouldn't actually fight but rather become friends, but it would be a fun fight to see
I'm not saying that Mario could beat Sonic in a fight (and if he could, then it would be a REALLY close fight), I'm just saying that Mario could totally take on Sonic
Dude even pulled out the comics for sonic but did not get mario stats based on the rpgs Also if it were mario & luigi Vs Sonic & tails Insta win for the plumbers
Bruh if sonic has Tails by his side, it would be even worse for those plumbers. Tails can easily find out their abilities and weakness with his Miles Electric.
@@Justtriple67 not really he has a point the entire video and in the comic section he just tries to downplay Mario so sonic wins, even though I can debunk it pretty easily since he puts really bad points down does really make sense. Mario has more abilities, more strength, more intelligence pretty much everything.
canonically both would be pals or partners at best, to take out the bad. if we add japanese shit then sonic is the most polite being and mario is a dude and if we add amercian stuff then sonic is rude asf and mario is still a dude
@@mynameisntimportant1374why i like sonic more he just does his own thing but hes not an asshole i hate the american interpretation of sonic makes him a snarky asshole that says dad jokes sonic is someone whos free and lives by his own will and moral code and cares for others
Why am i one of the people on the biased sides meanwhile what i was trying to say is respect each other’s opinion my bad if it looked like i was biased towards mario because I said sonic fanboys but same goes for Mario fans and Mario and sonic tie for me personally (no hate to you btw)
Probably should’ve just capped it to Classic Sonic. Then it would have been slightly more fair. Also could’ve allowed Paper Mario scaling since you used Archie scaling for Sonic. Not that it’d really change the outcome; just saying.
@@Deadchannel371 mario can't kill sonic, literally sonic is too fast for mario to aim and fight him, yes mario reacted to light speed enemies but sonic in base currently is faster than light.
@@Deadchannel371 sonic in sonic generations literally speeds through time to save the day making him too fast for mario and don't forget classic sonic does the same shit. which makes classic mario look weak asf (mario 1-super mario 64)
@@SansINess53 Classic Mario casually surfed through time and to the real world and moved in places without space or time + sonic speed is useless if he can’t hurt Mario
God i hate this controversy nobody can agree it'd be a tie and sonic wouldn't one shot because mario still has nice endurance and cartoon physics (yes cartoon physics iz a power cuz they actually strong af) it'd literally be a tie between them they are matched and if they were to fight it'd be either a little game between friends or they wouldn't fight at all.
They are both cartoon characters, so it really doesn’t mean much. Sonic’s design alone acknowledges this due to the fact his design was referenced from Felix the cat, atom boy, Mickey Mouse,etc. So to say Mario is the only one with the toon force, seems like over seeing what’s right in front of you. Now you may say, Sonic universe is more realistic, no it not mate. The world of Mobious may have similarities to our own, it’s really not. I don’t talking animals… man I’m getting carried away this. My main point, Sonic and Mario are practically identical in how toony they are, it’s kind of a poor augmented to bring up in this situation.
I find it bizarre how you had a debunk for me planned when you mainly used Archie feats for Sonic, used someone else’s outdated debunks in your pinned comment, and barely (or just straight up not even) defend counter arguments to your points in the comments. I could say a lot more, including the bias in a lot of areas in the video, but a lot of people have already called your video out and haven’t gotten properly responded to by you yet. I’m not gonna act like there wasn’t work and research put into this, but there’s a lot of things I can’t get by with this… (And I do recall you being the person who got upset about my Mario vs Steve short and tagged me and Tyrecordslol in your short that was very clearly made to bait Mario scalers)
All the hax you mentioned sonic has, mario has that too and can even resist them. Funny how you're too scared to bring up paper mario, mario kun etc who are apart of game mario contiunity.
Buddy I even said in the video myself “I could go deeper into Mario’s scaling” implying that I can talk about paper mario, mario kun, etc but like I said, just so it doesn’t take up 1/4 of the video, I left it out,
I only brought up Archie sonic if you don’t believe in the outer scaling or if someone thinks that the Archie sonic and game Sonic cosmology are the same
that don’t matter super sonic is supposed to have infinite strength when Mario’s star power up only makes him vulnerable meaning pushing back blows and let’s not and let’s not forget Sonic ripped the wings of a angel in smash
@@chaoticmeep we bringing another character in this fight? You doing too much, but back to Mario kun. Bowser has defeated Manga Kamen who basically controls the manga and Mario still defeated the bowser who did that. Mario is OP
I do think sonic wins but,the image comics aren’t canon,even if something referenced something happening doesn’t mean it’s canon it’s just that both canons had similar,and if what they reference is from Archie comics it’s not canon because Archie’s not canon too.
In my honest opinion this video was completely true great job explaining everything! Adding Archie sonic was a bit of an overkill but who cares? I honestly don’t know why people say that Mario is stronger. I mean basic physics tells you the faster something is going when it hits something makes the attack stronger.
people severely underestimate game sonic. even he is busted. and people like often use Mario stuff from the Mario shows and other non canon things but then turn around and say we can't use Archie sonic. I think Mario is incredibly powerful but I think he can't keep up with sonic speed. I think sonic would beat him
Oh yeah let me ask you something how is sonic going to hurt Mario ? Beside except people who uses paper Mario, Mario has always used canon stuff to be scaled
@@mynameisntimportant1374 Don’t listen to anyone who says Archie is canon. The material used to scale game sonic are the games, IDW comics, Prime & Sonic Channel. That’s it
hard to believe that a fat plumber and a mutated hedgehog spawned a cavalcade of esoteric nonsense. if only y'all paid this much attention in school, you could've been doctors.
Not even 20 seconds into the video and already you exposed your own bias. So you say that when you go watch Mario vs Sonic videos on TH-cam you say that you see bias coming from both sides of the fans and show three comments in your video showing this. Comment 1: These Sonic fanboys be writing essays in the comments and can't accept someone's opinion. Comment 2: Fax Mario solos Sonic+verse in base form. Sonic fanboys can cry out loud. Comment 3: Bro Mario is getting stronger and stronger to the point that this is not a debate it is a slaughter. However, what you fail to realize is that you only show this happening on Mario's side and not Sonic's. What do I mean by this? Well, let's dissect each comment. Comment 1: This comment criticizes Sonic fans for their responses and suggests they can't accept differing opinions. It could indeed be from a Mario fan who is frustrated with the reactions of Sonic fans but could also just be someone who isn't a fan of how Sonic fans highball Sonic. (Trust me this at most could either be a neutral comment or a Mario Fanboy comment I see no hint of this being written by a Sonic Fanboy). Mind you it's only going to get more apparent going forward. Comment 2: This comment confidently asserts Mario's superiority over Sonic and dismisses Sonic fanboys. The strong language and assertion of Mario's dominance suggest it's more likely from a Mario fanboy. Comment 3: Similar to Comment 2, this comment also declares Mario's dominance and uses strong language to dismiss any debate. It's more likely from a Mario fanboy as well. As you can see, you basically just lied to your audience about showing proof of there being bias on both sides when really all you did was show the bias on Mario's side. And before any of you say I'm being biased myself because I'm clearly a Mario fan. I for the most part could see where Tempest was coming from with their video and besides them not bringing up Mario Kun when they decided to talk about Archie Sonic there was nothing else that made it so blatantly obvious they were being biased (not saying they were being bias). I may be more biased towards Mario but I'm not against the idea of Sonic beating Mario in a fight. I'll hear out what they have to say but if I see something that makes it apparent one side is being favored more than the other. I'm going to bring it up. There's more I can say about this video but I'll leave it at that for now.
@@mexicancj So let me get this straight you were too lazy to show comments of Sonic fans being biased (which shouldn't take very long at all mind you) yet you take the time to write a whole string of comments trying to debunk Mario from being Outerversal (not to mention what you gave would take a decent amount of time to find all that)? I'm sorry but you actively admitting to being lazy only further solidifies my belief that you're biased. If you were too lazy to want to add biased Sonic fans comments then you shouldn't have even kept that in your script. Not to mention you try and use what's widely considered to be "Sonic's strongest version of himself" Archie Sonic and also bring up Sonic X (which isn't canon to the games either) and then claim you're only using Game Sonic in this I find rather funny that you don't bring up either Paper Mario or the non-canon Mario Kun as well to make it fair (I know you said you didn't want to talk about Paper Mario because you didn't want to go into too much detail about Mario so that it didn't take up too much of the video but I have a problem with that because you're choosing to ignore a lot of strong feats for Mario which weakens your take on him even more.) I mean with the amount of time you gave on Mario's side you only talk about his mainline entry games while with Sonic you talk about things outside of his mainline games in that same amount of time. I'm sorry but I have to be honest here this video is biased there's no way you can deny it.
archie is too good for any mario to handle, hell mario and paper mario can't take him on together, (both are in relative level because of their cross over I think) but current sonic beats current mario. mostly in extreme/hard diff. listen literally, if we take gameplay mario against gameplay sonic as well then mario is fucked since when he jumps he doesn't become a hitbox, yes he has a bag full of items to use but sonic can literally just dodge since he is just faster so gameplay sonic wins mid diff due to the fact he becomes a literal hitbox if he jumps or rolls, and gameplay mario would be slowly getting drained by sonic.
Current Mario no diffs current sonic And base paper Mario from spm slams comp Archie Sonic negative diff Gameplay wise sonic can’t survive the same amount of hits Mario can
@@mynameisntimportant1374 you really don't listen but hey I guess you don't want proof, even if I bring evidence you will only think like a monkey about mario fucks sonic.
I've heard ppl bring up how the golden flower was able to one shot bowser and other enemies which is honestly hilarious to me bc it's a game mechanic, if you don't believe then we can bring super sonic's game mechanics into this aswell 😂 he's able to one shot any enemy other than bosses by just touching them 💀 (why can sonic not one shot bosses like golden mario could? Bc that would reduce the challenge of even having a boss to nothing and sega ain't gon make the same mistake nintendo did bc having smth that one shots a boss removes the diffuculty altogether)
number one mario is outerversal and for some god forsaken reason you said that sonic who dosen't have too much hax or ressistances after i did research vs mario who has almost every manipulation and resstance and toon physics yes it is a actual hax abiliy and sonic outdoes that no friend ok NICE THUMBNAIL BTW MAN
first Layers of the Mario Cosmology explained The lowsest level of the Cosmology is the Omniverse The moral realm/ Omniverse( which is what the Galaxy reactor threatened) contains infinite Universes infite Timelines the Dream Depot the string theory Platonism Extra Dimensional Dimensions flipside flopside MWI And a Superspace Overall Outerversal Star sprites realm is the next layer into the Cosmology This is Things that are said to be beyond space beyond time Dimesnions or both Basically anything High Outerversal The star sprites are above the Omniverse Woah zone is beyond space The Cutout is beyond Spacetime and Dimensions And bowsers Warped Orbit is beyond spacetime So overall the star spirits realm is High Outerversal Above that is the after life If the afterlife is a higher plane of existence even higher than being beyond spacetime The afterlife realm Contains The overthere The Underwhere And Shangi Spa's So overall that afterlife realm is boundless The next layer is the Meta Fictional realm This is where Manga Kamen resides And it is the creator of the Omniverse, Beyond the Omniverse realm and the Afterlife realm Making it 2 layes beyond Boundless The Tribe of Ancients trancededed into a Higher plane of existence meaning it's above the Meta Fictional realm they trancededed so high They're not even seen in the afterlife Meaning they're not bounded by the laws of afterlife They also built the Pure hearts a form in the Manga that makes Mario stronger than thw Manga author menaining the Tribe of ancients power Excels the author meaning they Should have Is transcended higher than meta fictional world Making it 3 Layers beyond Boundless Is the final layer is the player realm The player realm Is beyond the meta fictional realm Where the player resides the player is the one who created the cosmology itself He can Control all the characters and exist in a higher plane of his existence overall The Player realm is 4 Layers beyond Boundless
if your wondering for any of this i'll break it down CSAP AND OTHER WIKIS NOT VS BATTLES consider platosim scales to outerversal and the person who made this in mario's time machine also studied on the topic i believe the omniverse is ifnite dimensional considered several times in SPM and his wiki ok mario and paper mario are the exact same being ok the omniverse also contains ifnite areas and other dimensional realms and cosomologies like rabbids and miis dk are also in the cosomology and wii party shows that mario's planets are giant and only small due to gameplay purposes mario also has dream depot a hyperversal space zone that contains extra dimensions and multiverses and mysterious other lifes said in mario and luigi dream team mario's body was so durable when queen jaydes who's in control of the moral realm the land of living's life struck mario only to say somehow he was alive the afterlife realm actually contains the underwhere and the overthere and shengai's spas this realm is boundless we'll get to why soon there is a metaphysical heaven and hell that exists within mario the sapce-time in mario also consists of jugian archetype :innate patterns of thought and behavior that strive for realization within an individual's environment.:this exists t=within mario mario also could have transfinite mathematics like sonic according to e.gadd in luigi mansion 2 something about finite numbers mario also has astral plane and woah zone timeless voids parrel universes in a universe or extradimensional shown in 64 and 64 ds which is a separate adventure mario also traveled to a parrelel universe within mario 3dworld said to a mystroius world and worlds shown in SPM AND TTYD are universes in mario were getting there mario at this point has well more than 50 dimensions string theory exists in mario shown by SPM AND warios games the tv in mario also can take you to a parrelel world and wario is part of mario's cosomology there is endless and ifinte possibilities in mario shown in SPM the cutout literally transcend space-time and spastial tinking is in mario and there refered to as concepts culex lives in a hyper dimensional plane and culex is the master of space-time etc etc etc
marios hax and abilities: Superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes and durability, Enhanced Unarmed Combat, Dimensional Storage, Pyrokinesis, Minor Electrokinesis and Aerokinesis, Energy Manipulation, Danger Sensing (His nose can apparently smell trouble), Limited Physics Manipulation (His jumps' physics are impossible for Isaac Newton to understand), Longevity (In the Super Mario Galaxy games, Mario has witnessed two Star Festivals, which take place once every 100 years. Comparable to Peach and Bowser, who would live on for 10,000 more years after Bowser created his own universe), Shapeshifting (Has transformed into others before), Flight (Achieved flight once), Plot Manipulation (Broke manga panels with his presence), Telekinesis (Can change the direction of Megavitamins mid-flight), Plant Growth Acceleration (Has invented a specific Megavitamin to accelerate plant growth), Resistance to Gravity Manipulation (Can walk perfectly fine on hundreds of different sized planets in different galaxies across different universes and can even walk near black holes), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Immune to Hawking Radiation), Resistance to Petrification (Can break free from being turned to stone), Resistance to Existence Erasure (Unaffected by Bowser's wish on the Dream Stone to make him vanish from existence), Resistance to Plot Manipulation (After Bowser beat the manga kamen and changed the script, the kamen said Mario would win anyways because he always wins. Sure enough, Mario won), Resistance to Concept Destruction (The Void would erase all concepts, and Mario is completely unaffected by The Void's powers. Why would The Void erase all concepts? With the power of paint, Red could talk telepathically to Mario and Huey by coloring their thoughts. This would mean that paint not only gives life to beings and such, but it is also what embodies and creates thoughts; concepts are defined as thoughts and ideas, so if The Void can erase all existence, including all the paint and Paint Stars, then it's erasing all concepts as well. If you count the 1-A rating below, it can also erase all Universals, which Mario would also resist), Resistance to Meta Wish Granting (Survived Bowser's wish on the Star Rod to destroy him), Resistance to Matter Manipulation (Atomic; can be stripped down to clumps of pixels and then reform completely unharmed), Resistance to Evolution Manipulation (When shot by Bowser's Devolution Gun in Kun, he resisted it, and instead of devolving to a monkey like Luigi did, he gained his Tanooki Mario power-up), Resistance to Fate Manipulation (The Light Prognosticus foretold that the four Heroes of Light would gather together and use the Pure Hearts to defeat The Dark One. The Dark Prognosticus foretold that the hero of prophecy and all others would be stopped by the Green One joining The Dark One, cementing the end of all worlds. These imbalances messed with the wheels of destiny. Everything they wrote became truth; it was fate itself bringing about the actions. But at the end, breaking the Light Prognosticus, Luigi joined Dimentio--The Dark One--and began down the path that the Dark Prognosticus created. The Heroes of Light, however, break the Dark Prognosticus and win anyways. Tippi describes this entire phenomena as "fate," rather cementing the fact that the two Prognosticuses played with fate itself. And in the end, the Heroes of Light and The Dark One all broke both Prognosticuses, giving them a resistance to fate manipulation), Enhanced Swordsmanship (Is greatly skilled in swordplay and fencing), Enhanced Marksmanship (Has held real guns before and has pulled off impressive feats with them), 4th Wall Awareness (Displayed both in-games and in Super Mario-Kun), Resurrection (Resurrection as Undead; it took awhile, but in Super Mario-Kun, Mario was killed, traversed through hell, and came back to life), Pain Affinity (Evidenced here), Regeneration (High-Mid; survived being blown to pieces like a balloon), Duplication (Can sacrifice extra lives for a clone of himself), Resistance to Primordial Force Manipulation (The Player can't affect him at all), Resistance to Universal Manipulation (Can break free from The Player's grip, which reigns over everything else in the game), Proficiency w/ Hammers, Soul Destruction and Mutilation (Has greatly damaged Boos and other ghosts, and has even destroyed Cackletta's Soul), Dimensional Manipulation, Space and Time Manipulation/Time Travel, and Brotherly Telepathy w/ Luigi. Music Manipulation (Anyone who had possession of or was in the same vicinity of a Music Key had the power of music transmitted into their souls, and can tap into its power for a variety of abilities as long as they're skilled enough, including all of the following powers after this one), Mind Control (Waluigi was going to use it to hypnotize anyone who didn't have the same dancing abilities as him), Chaos Inducement (The Music Keys could rain chaos and discord down, destroying everything and everyone), Broadway Force (The second Mario started dancing, things like snowmen, fire itself, plates, and flaming wooden logs started dancing with him), Pyrokinesis (Mario and Luigi's dancing styles are "hot," and can melt things like giant Freezies by generating and shooting fire pretty easily), Telekinesis (Could sail a boat across a river), Summoning (Summoned a rocket from nowhere to attack Bowser), Statistics Amplification (Using the power of dancing, he could increase his speed to catch up to a roller-coaster), Explosion Manipulation (Caused Koopas to explode into music notes), Power Nullification (The Dance Meter essentially decides whose abilities are more effective, and the abilities of the losing dancer are entirely nullified), Matter Manipulation (Molecular; Changed the makeup of a hotel from being a normal building to being a corkscrew, then changed it back), Size Manipulation (Caused a mushroom to spontaneously grow out of the ground), Weather Manipulation (Things like twisters, avalanches, snowstorms and whirlpools were caused by the Keys, as evidenced here), Empathic Manipulation (Forced Bowser to feel happiness. Dancing caused Boos to warm up to Mario), Healing (Bowser was going to use the Keys to fix his tone deafness), Death Inducement (Bowser's use of the Keys turned the landscape into this...), Life Inducement (Before Mario turned it back into this. To put into perspective of how impressive this is, Bowser blocked out the Sun with thick clouds, turned water into lava, killed all plant life, turned hills into volcanoes, etc. Mario changed it all back), and Soul Manipulation
Fairly accurate mario vs sonic. The thing is marios universe uses a lot of magic to have things be possible, sonic's is far far less based on magic which makes him fucking terrifyingly poweful. Mario uses magic and powerups to fight bowser and his machines, sonic uses pure speed and insane strength to body highly durable machines and mystic beings. Do you know whats really scary tho? Shadow is even more powerful somehow. Guy matches sonic and is still wearing inhibitors
Never though I heard a more wrong comment but here we are Sonic is litteraly so much stronger than shadow their gap can’t be measured and canonically speaking sonic always needs boost to defeat his enemies while Mario except for bowser fury always defeated his enemies in base
@mynameisntimportant1374 first, where was sonic "proven" so much stronger than shadow? I've engaged in as much sonic content as I can get my hands on and it's never been shown to me so please do tell me what the fuck you're on about. Second the scale of things and the world's they are in are not equal at all, mario uses magic to fight a magic turtle but also not really because he always has to use bowser against himself, sonic just straight up has to fight shit on his own and his final fights are hundreds of times more difficult (in universe) that most of his adventure given the power difference. Perfect chaos for example is a fuck of a lot more powerful than chaos 6, and dark Gaia would sort of eat the fucking earth if he could and was so much bigger than sonic that even the gaia temples put together were tiny next to dark Gaia, mario final bosses are not that much higher scale than most of the adventure, sonic final bosses are Gods, all powerful masters of their worlds, or entities that threaten worlds. Bowser is none of those things and would get slammed by perfect chaos, a sonic foe is ranks fairly low in power next to much of the bosses in the series. Mario isn't winning shit
@@brenscott5416 feats and inverse lmao and shadow admiting he isn’t on par with sonic or him tieing with silver who fears sonic Totally the contrary Mario fighting bowser with power ups is a game mechanic, sonic power are lore canon and Mario has faced much stronger enemies Planetary? Damn even the weakest Mario enemies in the classic era was solar system also size is useless and Mario has slain multiple giants in base without trying while sonic needed super Mario is curbstomping this mismatch
@mynameisntimportant1374 never seen sonic pull feats such as teleporting the black comet, shadow is powerful enough that with 2 inhibitor rings off the simple act of moving was enough to kill mephils clones in sonic 06. Sonic himself just isn't capable of that and that was only half of his inhibitor rings off. The reality is that show himself doesn't know how powerful he is since the removal of his inhibitor rings is potentially dangerous to him and others as it keeps his power in a much more neutral state. On the "mario beating stronger enemies fight" who? Who is stronger than perfect chaos or dark Gaia? Two foes who aren't even the strongest sonic has taken down in the games alone
@@brenscott5416dimentoo slams both. Dimentio in his super dimentio state, can destroy world of forms, which are part of the worlds, he can destroy and they can distort the cosmology. Perfect chaos ain't even beating base bowser jr.
It will never not be funny watching debates by people (or rather children/manchildren) who are actually in the belief that Mario is multiversal, faster than light, or can destroy planets when almost all his feats are eithef theoretical or highly inconsistent 😂 he would probably not even be able to beat Sonic Adventure 2 on his own unless somehow all of his items spawned right in front of him. Sonic makes mincemeat out of the plumber. Powerscalers are honestly one of the most pathetic breeds out there.
and also sonic beats mario and I mean if both are from the games then sonic wins, since sonic is really stronk and faster than mario, yes mario reacted to light but remember sonic was 9.5x light speed before frontiers but now it's clear sonic wins, and I mean sonic from the games not archie, archie is overkill against mario just put paper mario and archie sonic, literally sonic will still clap him but archie sonic isn't canon sonic like how paper mario isn't mario so basically game sonic beats mario at hard diff and archie beats the shit out of paper mario mid diff. (literally paper mario has no way of escaping the zone of silence)
Both have immeasurable speed lmao and paper Mario has so many ways to escape the zone of silence and hax that Archie Sonic can’t counter ( cutout,paperize, dimensional flipping, star rod, 1000 arms etc. )
9.5x the speed of light 😭😭💔 1) base sonic is WAY faster than that and so is base Mario 2) paper mario DEMOLISHES Archie Sonic, Archie Sonic isn’t even as strong as game sonic he’s just overwanked
How? We aren't sending you death threats or Insulting you we are just debunking your video and adressesing how the video wasnt well reseached If you came here to try making one of the most popular debates and expect to have nobody disagree with you thats childish
@@mexicancj I never said it was "ass researched" I said it wasn't well researched And No Mario does scale higher than you think + you didn't even adresss all the other things that makes mario Outer or beyond 7D
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This is for people who think Mario is outer
(If you don’t think Mario is outer then don’t read this)
**Debunking the Extra-Dimensional Expansion Argument**
While the Super Mario 64 Nintendo Guide Book does refer to Big Boos as extra-dimensional, this does not inherently imply that the entire Mario cosmology transcends conventional spacetime with multiple dimensions. Here are a few points to consider:
**Specific Reference:**
The guidebook's designation of Big Boos as extra-dimensional is limited to their ghostly nature and ability to traverse the walls of Big Boo's Haunt. It does not explicitly state that the entire world or other dimensions in Mario are extra-dimensional.
**Other Dimensions:**
Various Mario games feature worlds or levels that seem disconnected from the main world, such as the Mushroom Kingdom, Koopa Kingdom, or Darklands. However, these dimensions are typically accessed through portals or power-ups, and they do not exhibit the same extra-dimensional characteristics as Big Boo's Haunt.
**Contradictory Evidence:**
Other guidebooks for Mario games, as well as the in-game dialogue and level design, consistently portray the Mario universe as a three-dimensional world, with no indication of extra dimensions beyond that. For example, the Mario Odyssey Guide Book states that Mario's world is a "3D sandbox" that players can explore freely.
**Consistency in Lore:**
Throughout the Mario franchise, there is a consistent portrayal of characters, locations, and events that align with a three-dimensional world. From Mario's platforming adventures to the layout of levels and the interactions between characters, there is no substantial evidence to suggest that Mario's world operates beyond the confines of conventional space and time.
**Philosophical Considerations:**
The idea of extra-dimensional expansion in the Mario universe also raises philosophical questions about the nature of reality within the game. If Mario and his world were truly existing in higher dimensions, how would this impact the actions and interactions of the characters? Would Mario be able to perceive and interact with these extra dimensions, or would they remain hidden from his perspective?
**Narrative Coherence:**
From a storytelling perspective, the introduction of extra-dimensional expansion in the Mario universe may detract from the overall coherence and consistency of the narrative. By maintaining a clear and concrete understanding of the world in which Mario exists, players are able to better engage with the characters and settings without the distraction of convoluted cosmological theories.
**Fan Theories vs. Canon:**
While fan theories and interpretations of the Mario universe can be entertaining and thought-provoking, it is important to distinguish between speculative ideas and established canon. Unless there is concrete evidence within the games or official materials to support the notion of extra-dimensional expansion, it is best to approach such theories with a critical eye and a healthy dose of skepticism.
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Now let me add something, this scan that some use, that bowser warpid orbit "trancends space and time", Its a mistranslation as in the japanese version it doesnt say that.
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cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1179747545392623616/1222305621840498708/Captura_de_ecra_2024-03-22_120638.png?ex=662830d1&is=6615bbd1&hm=380249eac2013ec46a717a28d08393f5cb4a707e791caa3dc0841b6c2e4cacd1&
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aminoapps.com/c/join-the-battle/page/blog/debunking-mario-canonicity-by-metal875/27bZ_vMUNurRE7jZRqMbjR3MWKg6BGz5ZJ
deathbattlefanon.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000311218
vsbattles.com/threads/so-long-2-b-mario-potentially-big-downgrade-for-spm-feats.131023/
aminoapps.com/c/join-the-battle/page/blog/debunking-higher-dimensional-5d-and-up-mario-dream-depot-niarobis-why-the-dream-depot-is-bigger-than-you-thought/QNwG_K2fXuJKEdQwQbNYlXKXKjm0bxnQZr
m.th-cam.com/video/q2zTXEqAIRU/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/RygqS2yYDaM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qAiBToduzZC7WjUm
th-cam.com/video/yCH8C51SOLs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=mo9uPpY3Jwf8XTf9
th-cam.com/video/Z5TmXtSHuIM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TW83FxWZhp5IQ-Kn
th-cam.com/video/yHAGJMwn5WY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_mDd9PvSj0a7vl5D
th-cam.com/video/aBUIVmEenX4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-mUj_J9mleyzkfVw
th-cam.com/video/SGPZYj4a634/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3RHuCe_ovhwpho1C
th-cam.com/video/YKzvLYk6D8c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=o3R1liEd2TzVMJRK
You clearly don’t know what extra-dimensional means and are just going with what you like more
Hastly generalization and hitchen razor the afterlife is mentioned multiple times in the Luigi mansion series and the guidebook specifically state that Mario 64 worlds are copies of the main world 🤦
Mf is seriously confusing gameplay for lore 🤦 dear lord ig neither comp sonic gets past 3D even in wario games extra-dimensional portals are cited
Existence ≠ ap if sonic is actually higher dimensional then why doesn’t he view all the people he meets as 2D ?
Narratively speaking sonic doesn’t get past 3D stop confusing gameplay for lore
Prove physically sonic gets above 3D this isn’t canon even a debunk it just “ I don’t like the Mario series so I’m ignoring all the arguments that get it above 3D”
Also imagine using geburah and vs battle wiki as a source 💀
Miss translation there miss translation that yet you showed the wrong scan and all these so called debunks got debunked more times that I can count
Higher dimensions in Mario are present in Mario 64, galaxy,galaxy 2, wario games, paper Mario color splash, paper Mario sticker star, super Mario rpg, Mario and Luigi dream team, super paper Mario etc.
Excalibur596 already made a great video on this topic. He didn’t even need to pull feats from Archie Sonic which is a different continuity entirely. It’d be like non-specifying or clarifying Aquaman vs SpongeBob but only pulling from his 1960s cartoon feats.
yes but this dude makes normal sonic look weak, although sonic literally can beat mario
@@SansINess53 just like mario literally can beat sonic but i'll admit movie vs movie is prolly sonic no diff
No... that video he made was only to debunk death battle, who generally sucks when it comes to research and power scaling.
slight correction, at the end of mario galaxy bowser didn't tank the explotion, the lumas reseted the universe shortly after so im pretty sure they reseted bowser too
They only resetted the universe
Here are both of their feats (I'm only using their video game appearances, any other form of media doesn't count)
Both:
- They both can react outside of time itself
- They both survived falling from outer space
- They both can breath in outer space
- They both have fought gods
- They both have destroyed giant robots
Mario:
- He can deflect asteroids
- He has an army of mini Marios (who can lift Girders individually and use the same abilities he can)
- He has fought Donkey Kong (aka, the guy who punched the moon out of orbit)
- He has a collection of both invinsible and destructive power-ups (like the White Tanooki/Cat suit and the Golden Flower) and dozens of cloning power-ups (like the Cherries or the Copy Flower)
- He can summon his own stars
- He can survive being completely crushed
- He lifted King Bomb-Omb and threw him
- He can punch so hard that he can duplicate the thing he punches
- He has the power of the star spirits
- He can firebend
- He can grow into a giant at will
- He has driven the Star Diver
- He has a stopwatch that can control time itself
- He was a WW2 soldier
- He has a magic hat that can possess anyone it desires
- He can turn invisible, control nature, glide, superjump (which he could originally do), detect invisible items, generate ! Blocks, and grant him any power-up he wishes with the Badges
- He can manipulate reality with the Wonder Flower
- He has knowledge of the entire universe
- He has defeated Dreamy Bowser, Culex, Dimentio, Angry Sun, Megabug, Cursa, and the Ruined Dragon
- He can control reality with the Wonder Flower/s
Sonic:
- He can run so fast that he can time travel
- He has fought Knuckles
- He can destroy metal by spindashing
- He can wield the excalibur
- He has a variety of different transformations (Hyper Sonic being the strongest)
- He has flown across the Solar System as Super Sonic
- He has the power of the wisps
- He has a shield that deflects all elements
- He can clone himself, breath underwater (he technically becomes the water, which will take away his physical form underwater), control time, detect invisible things, control nature, and turn into a fireball with the Chaos Emeralds
- He can boost, which increases his insanely broken speed
- He has defeated Time Eater, Dark Gaia, Infinite, and Mephiles
- He can generate energy blasts from his fists
It depends on how the situation plays out (whether Capy is with Mario or not, if the Chaos Emeralds have already turned into Super Emeralds or not, or what badges Mario has equipped at the time)
Either way, they wouldn't actually fight but rather become friends, but it would be a fun fight to see
I'm not saying that Mario could beat Sonic in a fight (and if he could, then it would be a REALLY close fight), I'm just saying that Mario could totally take on Sonic
@@FriendlyNeighborhoodNoob sonic could take on mario not saying he could beat him
Dude even pulled out the comics for sonic but did not get mario stats based on the rpgs
Also if it were mario & luigi
Vs
Sonic & tails
Insta win for the plumbers
fr
Sonic beats Mario extreme diff
Luigi beats Tails low diff
Bruh if sonic has Tails by his side, it would be even worse for those plumbers. Tails can easily find out their abilities and weakness with his Miles Electric.
@@NebulaSon Tails won't do shit
@@r4zor1no-jk4pz I've already told you what he would do.
Drop your cord rn, this is s tier dogshit.
somebody smell like shit 🤢
Fr
Yall i think he might be mad
@@Justtriple67 not really he has a point the entire video and in the comic section he just tries to downplay Mario so sonic wins, even though I can debunk it pretty easily since he puts really bad points down does really make sense. Mario has more abilities, more strength, more intelligence pretty much everything.
@@cringemariobros2516 ight i agree
canonically both would be pals or partners at best, to take out the bad.
if we add japanese shit then sonic is the most polite being and mario is a dude
and if we add amercian stuff then sonic is rude asf and mario is still a dude
Mario is infinitely more polite than sonic will ever be
@@mynameisntimportant1374why i like sonic more he just does his own thing but hes not an asshole i hate the american interpretation of sonic makes him a snarky asshole that says dad jokes sonic is someone whos free and lives by his own will and moral code and cares for others
@@mino000Mario isn’t an asshole either
@@mino000 I never said sonic is a jerk just that Mario is much more polite than him
@@mynameisntimportant1374 fax
Why am i one of the people on the biased sides meanwhile what i was trying to say is respect each other’s opinion my bad if it looked like i was biased towards mario because I said sonic fanboys but same goes for Mario fans and Mario and sonic tie for me personally (no hate to you btw)
W pluh 🤑
@@N1njax 🤯
Probably should’ve just capped it to Classic Sonic. Then it would have been slightly more fair. Also could’ve allowed Paper Mario scaling since you used Archie scaling for Sonic. Not that it’d really change the outcome; just saying.
Classic Mario >>>> Classic sonic
Paper Mario >>>>>>> Archie Sonic
@@mynameisntimportant1374 whatever you say
@jschannel6319 I mean you could say classic mario could beat sonic but hey people have opinions
@@mynameisntimportant1374 not really, sonic beats both if you consider the feats and the fact sonic is faster than both in all states.
@@SansINess53 oh yeah speed the most useless wincon especially since when both have immeasurable speed
Sonic isn’t touching neither of the two Mario
Using the strongest non canon sonic but not use the strongest mario is crazy lol
even just using the Solaris scaling from Sonic 06 it's still an ez sweep.
@@LilyRealnah the strongest Mario fought his creator of story. Mario kills Sonic
@@Deadchannel371 mario can't kill sonic, literally sonic is too fast for mario to aim and fight him, yes mario reacted to light speed enemies but sonic in base currently is faster than light.
@@Deadchannel371 sonic in sonic generations literally speeds through time to save the day making him too fast for mario and don't forget classic sonic does the same shit. which makes classic mario look weak asf (mario 1-super mario 64)
@@SansINess53 Classic Mario casually surfed through time and to the real world and moved in places without space or time + sonic speed is useless if he can’t hurt Mario
the video went from "who would win" to "please stop pinning them against each other"
Great vid cj! Using Archie was overkill
archie sonic isn't on par with game sonic 💀.
archie dosen't even kill mario
cool looking thumbnail where you get it?
Mario vs sonic is a fight of magic vs cosmic
sonic is deadly powerful, but i always doubt that mario can be more versatile and unpredictable
God i hate this controversy nobody can agree it'd be a tie and sonic wouldn't one shot because mario still has nice endurance and cartoon physics (yes cartoon physics iz a power cuz they actually strong af) it'd literally be a tie between them they are matched and if they were to fight it'd be either a little game between friends or they wouldn't fight at all.
exactly
They are both cartoon characters, so it really doesn’t mean much. Sonic’s design alone acknowledges this due to the fact his design was referenced from Felix the cat, atom boy, Mickey Mouse,etc. So to say Mario is the only one with the toon force, seems like over seeing what’s right in front of you. Now you may say, Sonic universe is more realistic, no it not mate. The world of Mobious may have similarities to our own, it’s really not. I don’t talking animals… man I’m getting carried away this. My main point, Sonic and Mario are practically identical in how toony they are, it’s kind of a poor augmented to bring up in this situation.
sonic wins very very easily
Ayo, is that John Yakuza from the Hit Game Yakuza 0?
I find it bizarre how you had a debunk for me planned when you mainly used Archie feats for Sonic, used someone else’s outdated debunks in your pinned comment, and barely (or just straight up not even) defend counter arguments to your points in the comments. I could say a lot more, including the bias in a lot of areas in the video, but a lot of people have already called your video out and haven’t gotten properly responded to by you yet. I’m not gonna act like there wasn’t work and research put into this, but there’s a lot of things I can’t get by with this…
(And I do recall you being the person who got upset about my Mario vs Steve short and tagged me and Tyrecordslol in your short that was very clearly made to bait Mario scalers)
Fr, idk why Sonic fans are such cowards these days
it still wouldn't matter as sonic stills beats mario no matter how you put it
@@Tomsupreme2022 gets*
I’m here for the comment section 😊
Better get your popcorn ready cause this’ll be interesting to say the least🍿
All the hax you mentioned sonic has, mario has that too and can even resist them. Funny how you're too scared to bring up paper mario, mario kun etc who are apart of game mario contiunity.
Buddy I even said in the video myself “I could go deeper into Mario’s scaling” implying that I can talk about paper mario, mario kun, etc but like I said, just so it doesn’t take up 1/4 of the video, I left it out,
The mario in this video I was taking about was just game mario
AND I WAS ALSO USING GAME SONIC FOR HIS AP SINCE I SAID SONIC COULD GET TO OUTER AS WELL
I only brought up Archie sonic if you don’t believe in the outer scaling or if someone thinks that the Archie sonic and game Sonic cosmology are the same
@@mexicancjthen why even bring up Archie then, it seemed bias my guy
The archie comics are not canon to the games
Doesn't matter mario solos both game and archie sonic
@@MisterLackLustre not really sonic solos mario.
that don’t matter super sonic is supposed to have infinite strength when Mario’s star power up only makes him vulnerable meaning pushing back blows and let’s not and let’s not forget Sonic ripped the wings of a angel in smash
Fax
@@DOYOUGOTGAMEONYOURPHONE if we are considering sonic's feat outside of crossovers, frontiers sonic is stronk.
Bro used the Archie comics like their canon to the games 😂😂😂😂 then Mario gets Mario kun who has boundless feats
You don’t even know what the fuck boundless means. Mario Kun isn’t on the same tier as Boundless characters
@@chaoticmeepwhy you lying
@@Deadchannel371 Mario Kun isn’t on the same fucking tier as Azaloth, give me one boundless feat he’s done
@@chaoticmeepMario transcends his verse which is high outerversal without ratting.
@@chaoticmeep we bringing another character in this fight? You doing too much, but back to Mario kun. Bowser has defeated Manga Kamen who basically controls the manga and Mario still defeated the bowser who did that. Mario is OP
I was your 200th subscriber, W vid!
I do think sonic wins but,the image comics aren’t canon,even if something referenced something happening doesn’t mean it’s canon it’s just that both canons had similar,and if what they reference is from Archie comics it’s not canon because Archie’s not canon too.
Actually it be a good one, but then he brought up Archie. 😅oh well some one will do it right eventually
In my honest opinion this video was completely true great job explaining everything! Adding Archie sonic was a bit of an overkill but who cares? I honestly don’t know why people say that Mario is stronger. I mean basic physics tells you the faster something is going when it hits something makes the attack stronger.
people severely underestimate game sonic. even he is busted. and people like often use Mario stuff from the Mario shows and other non canon things but then turn around and say we can't use Archie sonic. I think Mario is incredibly powerful but I think he can't keep up with sonic speed. I think sonic would beat him
Base mario slams mid diff
@@MisterLackLustreit would probably be high diff or sonic wins
Oh yeah let me ask you something how is sonic going to hurt Mario ? Beside except people who uses paper Mario, Mario has always used canon stuff to be scaled
Nah we use canon stuff, but then Sonic fans say that isn’t canon or just call it weak. Like what else do yall need 😅
@@mynameisntimportant1374 Don’t listen to anyone who says Archie is canon. The material used to scale game sonic are the games, IDW comics, Prime & Sonic Channel. That’s it
In the list of power ups, you gave Mario, you included the 1-up mushroom and the 3-up moon, does this mean he can just reappear a couple times?
Forgot to exclude those 😂
@@mexicancjso you also blatantly ignored Mario's hax and exclude them lmao
Mario Wins Easily Like Infinite Invinciblilty Items That Guarantees One Shot, Consistant Time Manipulation Mario Solos Both Sonics Easy!
exactly if anythin g mario one shots sonic
Game Sonic > Archie lmao, he has more feats and better cosmology
W
Tbh Like I never get it that What if The comics wasn't non cannon then that make sonic op 💀
bro never read the comics... bro would eat his words after picking up a page or two
@@Fnaflover999max Archie comics got debunked like a million times
@@Electricswitchalt I'm sorry but... no.. not even close.. Arichi Sonic (base) solos the whole sonic-verse. its not even close
I thought the Archie sonic was not canon into the games
I could be wrong
Es canónico pero de una forma muy diferente.
Quaso 🥐
@@pkmntrainersonicx5382 pensè Que no era canon
Talking games alone, probably Mario, if including all media Sonic.
All media wise only sonic who wins is smt sonic
Oooh if we do all media Mario is stomping him
@@Deadchannel371fr, smt sonic is getting stomped by comp Mario's basic hax 💀
@@jamesjackson6717 fr
@@mynameisntimportant1374 all media is def mario
image isnt connected to sonic. archie sonic isnt game sonic
I can get Sonic to low outer in base form with the null space feat
Watch out some people are gonna try for debunk you just be ready
He's already getting debunked.
hard to believe that a fat plumber and a mutated hedgehog spawned a cavalcade of esoteric nonsense. if only y'all paid this much attention in school, you could've been doctors.
Not even 20 seconds into the video and already you exposed your own bias.
So you say that when you go watch Mario vs Sonic videos on TH-cam you say that you see bias coming from both sides of the fans and show three comments in your video showing this.
Comment 1: These Sonic fanboys be writing essays in the comments and can't accept someone's opinion.
Comment 2: Fax Mario solos Sonic+verse in base form. Sonic fanboys can cry out loud.
Comment 3: Bro Mario is getting stronger and stronger to the point that this is not a debate it is a slaughter.
However, what you fail to realize is that you only show this happening on Mario's side and not Sonic's. What do I mean by this? Well, let's dissect each comment.
Comment 1: This comment criticizes Sonic fans for their responses and suggests they can't accept differing opinions. It could indeed be from a Mario fan who is frustrated with the reactions of Sonic fans but could also just be someone who isn't a fan of how Sonic fans highball Sonic. (Trust me this at most could either be a neutral comment or a Mario Fanboy comment I see no hint of this being written by a Sonic Fanboy). Mind you it's only going to get more apparent going forward.
Comment 2: This comment confidently asserts Mario's superiority over Sonic and dismisses Sonic fanboys. The strong language and assertion of Mario's dominance suggest it's more likely from a Mario fanboy.
Comment 3: Similar to Comment 2, this comment also declares Mario's dominance and uses strong language to dismiss any debate. It's more likely from a Mario fanboy as well.
As you can see, you basically just lied to your audience about showing proof of there being bias on both sides when really all you did was show the bias on Mario's side.
And before any of you say I'm being biased myself because I'm clearly a Mario fan. I for the most part could see where Tempest was coming from with their video and besides them not bringing up Mario Kun when they decided to talk about Archie Sonic there was nothing else that made it so blatantly obvious they were being biased (not saying they were being bias). I may be more biased towards Mario but I'm not against the idea of Sonic beating Mario in a fight. I'll hear out what they have to say but if I see something that makes it apparent one side is being favored more than the other. I'm going to bring it up.
There's more I can say about this video but I'll leave it at that for now.
Yeah I edited that part of the video at like 2 at night, so mb if I forgot to include some sonic fanboy comments
And I didn’t feel like getting like 2-3 more comments about the Sonic side, so I apologize for the confusion
@@mexicancj So let me get this straight you were too lazy to show comments of Sonic fans being biased (which shouldn't take very long at all mind you) yet you take the time to write a whole string of comments trying to debunk Mario from being Outerversal (not to mention what you gave would take a decent amount of time to find all that)? I'm sorry but you actively admitting to being lazy only further solidifies my belief that you're biased. If you were too lazy to want to add biased Sonic fans comments then you shouldn't have even kept that in your script. Not to mention you try and use what's widely considered to be "Sonic's strongest version of himself" Archie Sonic and also bring up Sonic X (which isn't canon to the games either) and then claim you're only using Game Sonic in this I find rather funny that you don't bring up either Paper Mario or the non-canon Mario Kun as well to make it fair (I know you said you didn't want to talk about Paper Mario because you didn't want to go into too much detail about Mario so that it didn't take up too much of the video but I have a problem with that because you're choosing to ignore a lot of strong feats for Mario which weakens your take on him even more.) I mean with the amount of time you gave on Mario's side you only talk about his mainline entry games while with Sonic you talk about things outside of his mainline games in that same amount of time.
I'm sorry but I have to be honest here this video is biased there's no way you can deny it.
@@RaccoonThunderMario_Officialpreach
Ironically i think all three comments come from my video
if this mf hadn't used Archie then Mario would've clapped
This is terrible scaling 😭😭 mario slams this fodder and you obviously favour sonic more gang😂
Sonic is not touching outerversal and caps at 6D
archie is too good for any mario to handle, hell mario and paper mario can't take him on together, (both are in relative level because of their cross over I think)
but current sonic beats current mario. mostly in extreme/hard diff.
listen literally, if we take gameplay mario against gameplay sonic as well then mario is fucked since when he jumps he doesn't become a hitbox, yes he has a bag full of items to use but sonic can literally just dodge since he is just faster
so gameplay sonic wins mid diff due to the fact he becomes a literal hitbox if he jumps or rolls, and gameplay mario would be slowly getting drained by sonic.
Current Mario no diffs current sonic
And base paper Mario from spm slams comp Archie Sonic negative diff
Gameplay wise sonic can’t survive the same amount of hits Mario can
@@mynameisntimportant1374 you really don't listen but hey I guess you don't want proof, even if I bring evidence you will only think like a monkey about mario fucks sonic.
@@mynameisntimportant1374 true
The worst video ever, bro you didin't show scan, and you talk like you alrealy knows mario ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️
You trying to debunk Mario is funny you didn’t even do it correctly and Mario has that get him back up there and beyond
base sonic frontiers basically solos any sonic before super form before unleashed.
Stopping kids from saying first
I've heard ppl bring up how the golden flower was able to one shot bowser and other enemies which is honestly hilarious to me bc it's a game mechanic, if you don't believe then we can bring super sonic's game mechanics into this aswell 😂 he's able to one shot any enemy other than bosses by just touching them 💀 (why can sonic not one shot bosses like golden mario could? Bc that would reduce the challenge of even having a boss to nothing and sega ain't gon make the same mistake nintendo did bc having smth that one shots a boss removes the diffuculty altogether)
Cj well done unbiased and actually looked into it
Sarcasm ?
@@mynameisntimportant1374 you’re coping that your favourite fiction character loses
@@mynameisntimportant1374 up to interpretation bud
“Unbiased” 🤔🤔
@@chaoticmeep I’m not but it’s not like you can debate it either
number one mario is outerversal and for some god forsaken reason you said that sonic who dosen't have too much hax or ressistances after i did research vs mario who has almost every manipulation and resstance and toon physics yes it is a actual hax abiliy and sonic outdoes that no friend ok
NICE THUMBNAIL BTW MAN
you can easily get mario to outer with this alone
first Layers of the Mario Cosmology explained
The lowsest level of the Cosmology is the Omniverse
The moral realm/ Omniverse( which is what the Galaxy reactor threatened) contains infinite Universes infite Timelines the Dream Depot the string theory Platonism Extra Dimensional Dimensions flipside flopside MWI
And a Superspace
Overall Outerversal
Star sprites realm is the next layer into the Cosmology
This is Things that are said to be beyond space beyond time Dimesnions or both
Basically anything High Outerversal
The star sprites are above the Omniverse
Woah zone is beyond space
The Cutout is beyond Spacetime and Dimensions
And bowsers Warped Orbit is beyond spacetime
So overall the star spirits realm is High Outerversal
Above that is the after life
If the afterlife is a higher plane of existence even higher than being beyond spacetime
The afterlife realm Contains
The overthere
The Underwhere
And Shangi Spa's
So overall that afterlife realm is boundless
The next layer is the Meta Fictional realm
This is where Manga Kamen resides And it is the creator of the Omniverse, Beyond the Omniverse realm and the Afterlife realm
Making it 2 layes beyond Boundless
The Tribe of Ancients trancededed into a Higher plane of existence meaning it's above the Meta Fictional realm
they trancededed so high They're not even seen in the afterlife Meaning they're not bounded by the laws of afterlife
They also built the Pure hearts a form in the Manga that makes Mario stronger than thw Manga author menaining the Tribe of ancients power Excels the author meaning they Should have Is transcended higher than meta fictional world
Making it 3 Layers beyond Boundless
Is the final layer is the player realm
The player realm Is beyond the meta fictional realm Where the player resides the player is the one who created the cosmology itself He can Control all the characters and exist in a higher plane of his existence overall
The Player realm is 4 Layers beyond Boundless
if your wondering for any of this i'll break it down CSAP AND OTHER WIKIS NOT VS BATTLES consider platosim scales to outerversal and the person who made this in mario's time machine also studied on the topic i believe
the omniverse is ifnite dimensional considered several times in SPM and his wiki ok mario and paper mario are the exact same being ok the omniverse also contains ifnite areas and other dimensional realms and cosomologies like rabbids and miis dk are also in the cosomology and wii party shows that mario's planets are giant and only small due to gameplay purposes mario also has dream depot a hyperversal space zone that contains extra dimensions and multiverses and mysterious other lifes said in mario and luigi dream team mario's body was so durable when queen jaydes who's in control of the moral realm the land of living's life struck mario only to say somehow he was alive the afterlife realm actually contains the underwhere and the overthere and shengai's spas this realm is boundless we'll get to why soon there is a metaphysical heaven and hell that exists within mario the sapce-time in mario also consists of jugian archetype :innate patterns of thought and behavior that strive for realization within an individual's environment.:this exists t=within mario mario also could have transfinite mathematics like sonic according to e.gadd in luigi mansion 2 something about finite numbers mario also has astral plane and woah zone timeless voids parrel universes in a universe or extradimensional shown in 64 and 64 ds which is a separate adventure
mario also traveled to a parrelel universe within mario 3dworld said to a mystroius world and worlds shown in SPM AND TTYD are universes in mario were getting there mario at this point has well more than 50 dimensions string theory exists in mario shown by SPM AND warios games the tv in mario also can take you to a parrelel world and wario is part of mario's cosomology there is endless and ifinte possibilities in mario shown in SPM
the cutout literally transcend space-time and spastial tinking is in mario and there refered to as concepts
culex lives in a hyper dimensional plane and culex is the master of space-time etc etc etc
mario maker realm is also shown as a power-up and the player is in control of life and death
marios hax and abilities: Superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes and durability, Enhanced Unarmed Combat, Dimensional Storage, Pyrokinesis, Minor Electrokinesis and Aerokinesis, Energy Manipulation, Danger Sensing (His nose can apparently smell trouble), Limited Physics Manipulation (His jumps' physics are impossible for Isaac Newton to understand), Longevity (In the Super Mario Galaxy games, Mario has witnessed two Star Festivals, which take place once every 100 years. Comparable to Peach and Bowser, who would live on for 10,000 more years after Bowser created his own universe), Shapeshifting (Has transformed into others before), Flight (Achieved flight once), Plot Manipulation (Broke manga panels with his presence), Telekinesis (Can change the direction of Megavitamins mid-flight), Plant Growth Acceleration (Has invented a specific Megavitamin to accelerate plant growth), Resistance to Gravity Manipulation (Can walk perfectly fine on hundreds of different sized planets in different galaxies across different universes and can even walk near black holes), Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Immune to Hawking Radiation), Resistance to Petrification (Can break free from being turned to stone), Resistance to Existence Erasure (Unaffected by Bowser's wish on the Dream Stone to make him vanish from existence), Resistance to Plot Manipulation (After Bowser beat the manga kamen and changed the script, the kamen said Mario would win anyways because he always wins. Sure enough, Mario won), Resistance to Concept Destruction (The Void would erase all concepts, and Mario is completely unaffected by The Void's powers. Why would The Void erase all concepts? With the power of paint, Red could talk telepathically to Mario and Huey by coloring their thoughts. This would mean that paint not only gives life to beings and such, but it is also what embodies and creates thoughts; concepts are defined as thoughts and ideas, so if The Void can erase all existence, including all the paint and Paint Stars, then it's erasing all concepts as well. If you count the 1-A rating below, it can also erase all Universals, which Mario would also resist), Resistance to Meta Wish Granting (Survived Bowser's wish on the Star Rod to destroy him), Resistance to Matter Manipulation (Atomic; can be stripped down to clumps of pixels and then reform completely unharmed), Resistance to Evolution Manipulation (When shot by Bowser's Devolution Gun in Kun, he resisted it, and instead of devolving to a monkey like Luigi did, he gained his Tanooki Mario power-up), Resistance to Fate Manipulation (The Light Prognosticus foretold that the four Heroes of Light would gather together and use the Pure Hearts to defeat The Dark One. The Dark Prognosticus foretold that the hero of prophecy and all others would be stopped by the Green One joining The Dark One, cementing the end of all worlds. These imbalances messed with the wheels of destiny. Everything they wrote became truth; it was fate itself bringing about the actions. But at the end, breaking the Light Prognosticus, Luigi joined Dimentio--The Dark One--and began down the path that the Dark Prognosticus created. The Heroes of Light, however, break the Dark Prognosticus and win anyways. Tippi describes this entire phenomena as "fate," rather cementing the fact that the two Prognosticuses played with fate itself. And in the end, the Heroes of Light and The Dark One all broke both Prognosticuses, giving them a resistance to fate manipulation), Enhanced Swordsmanship (Is greatly skilled in swordplay and fencing), Enhanced Marksmanship (Has held real guns before and has pulled off impressive feats with them), 4th Wall Awareness (Displayed both in-games and in Super Mario-Kun), Resurrection (Resurrection as Undead; it took awhile, but in Super Mario-Kun, Mario was killed, traversed through hell, and came back to life), Pain Affinity (Evidenced here), Regeneration (High-Mid; survived being blown to pieces like a balloon), Duplication (Can sacrifice extra lives for a clone of himself), Resistance to Primordial Force Manipulation (The Player can't affect him at all), Resistance to Universal Manipulation (Can break free from The Player's grip, which reigns over everything else in the game), Proficiency w/ Hammers, Soul Destruction and Mutilation (Has greatly damaged Boos and other ghosts, and has even destroyed Cackletta's Soul), Dimensional Manipulation, Space and Time Manipulation/Time Travel, and Brotherly Telepathy w/ Luigi. Music Manipulation (Anyone who had possession of or was in the same vicinity of a Music Key had the power of music transmitted into their souls, and can tap into its power for a variety of abilities as long as they're skilled enough, including all of the following powers after this one), Mind Control (Waluigi was going to use it to hypnotize anyone who didn't have the same dancing abilities as him), Chaos Inducement (The Music Keys could rain chaos and discord down, destroying everything and everyone), Broadway Force (The second Mario started dancing, things like snowmen, fire itself, plates, and flaming wooden logs started dancing with him), Pyrokinesis (Mario and Luigi's dancing styles are "hot," and can melt things like giant Freezies by generating and shooting fire pretty easily), Telekinesis (Could sail a boat across a river), Summoning (Summoned a rocket from nowhere to attack Bowser), Statistics Amplification (Using the power of dancing, he could increase his speed to catch up to a roller-coaster), Explosion Manipulation (Caused Koopas to explode into music notes), Power Nullification (The Dance Meter essentially decides whose abilities are more effective, and the abilities of the losing dancer are entirely nullified), Matter Manipulation (Molecular; Changed the makeup of a hotel from being a normal building to being a corkscrew, then changed it back), Size Manipulation (Caused a mushroom to spontaneously grow out of the ground), Weather Manipulation (Things like twisters, avalanches, snowstorms and whirlpools were caused by the Keys, as evidenced here), Empathic Manipulation (Forced Bowser to feel happiness. Dancing caused Boos to warm up to Mario), Healing (Bowser was going to use the Keys to fix his tone deafness), Death Inducement (Bowser's use of the Keys turned the landscape into this...), Life Inducement (Before Mario turned it back into this. To put into perspective of how impressive this is, Bowser blocked out the Sun with thick clouds, turned water into lava, killed all plant life, turned hills into volcanoes, etc. Mario changed it all back), and Soul Manipulation
Game Mario low or mid diffs game sonic and no diffs Archie, Archie isn’t passing complex multi lol
Nice video I recon Game Sonic can high diff or tie with Game Mario.
Fairly accurate mario vs sonic. The thing is marios universe uses a lot of magic to have things be possible, sonic's is far far less based on magic which makes him fucking terrifyingly poweful. Mario uses magic and powerups to fight bowser and his machines, sonic uses pure speed and insane strength to body highly durable machines and mystic beings.
Do you know whats really scary tho? Shadow is even more powerful somehow. Guy matches sonic and is still wearing inhibitors
Never though I heard a more wrong comment but here we are
Sonic is litteraly so much stronger than shadow their gap can’t be measured and canonically speaking sonic always needs boost to defeat his enemies while Mario except for bowser fury always defeated his enemies in base
@mynameisntimportant1374 first, where was sonic "proven" so much stronger than shadow? I've engaged in as much sonic content as I can get my hands on and it's never been shown to me so please do tell me what the fuck you're on about. Second the scale of things and the world's they are in are not equal at all, mario uses magic to fight a magic turtle but also not really because he always has to use bowser against himself, sonic just straight up has to fight shit on his own and his final fights are hundreds of times more difficult (in universe) that most of his adventure given the power difference. Perfect chaos for example is a fuck of a lot more powerful than chaos 6, and dark Gaia would sort of eat the fucking earth if he could and was so much bigger than sonic that even the gaia temples put together were tiny next to dark Gaia, mario final bosses are not that much higher scale than most of the adventure, sonic final bosses are Gods, all powerful masters of their worlds, or entities that threaten worlds. Bowser is none of those things and would get slammed by perfect chaos, a sonic foe is ranks fairly low in power next to much of the bosses in the series. Mario isn't winning shit
@@brenscott5416 feats and inverse lmao and shadow admiting he isn’t on par with sonic or him tieing with silver who fears sonic
Totally the contrary Mario fighting bowser with power ups is a game mechanic, sonic power are lore canon and Mario has faced much stronger enemies
Planetary? Damn even the weakest Mario enemies in the classic era was solar system also size is useless and Mario has slain multiple giants in base without trying while sonic needed super
Mario is curbstomping this mismatch
@mynameisntimportant1374 never seen sonic pull feats such as teleporting the black comet, shadow is powerful enough that with 2 inhibitor rings off the simple act of moving was enough to kill mephils clones in sonic 06. Sonic himself just isn't capable of that and that was only half of his inhibitor rings off. The reality is that show himself doesn't know how powerful he is since the removal of his inhibitor rings is potentially dangerous to him and others as it keeps his power in a much more neutral state.
On the "mario beating stronger enemies fight" who? Who is stronger than perfect chaos or dark Gaia? Two foes who aren't even the strongest sonic has taken down in the games alone
@@brenscott5416dimentoo slams both. Dimentio in his super dimentio state, can destroy world of forms, which are part of the worlds, he can destroy and they can distort the cosmology. Perfect chaos ain't even beating base bowser jr.
Mario negs
Bro did not even watch the vid😂
Why is he not using game sonic game sonic shit stomps but u are using Archie sonic
@Kale-1257 I did, lol. He lowballed and downplayed mario to 6-7d when he actually scales higher than that and then wanks sonic to hyper-outer 😂
@@Kale-1257ass vid
@@mynameisntimportant1374 cap
Y'all mario is high outer
It will never not be funny watching debates by people (or rather children/manchildren) who are actually in the belief that Mario is multiversal, faster than light, or can destroy planets when almost all his feats are eithef theoretical or highly inconsistent 😂 he would probably not even be able to beat Sonic Adventure 2 on his own unless somehow all of his items spawned right in front of him. Sonic makes mincemeat out of the plumber.
Powerscalers are honestly one of the most pathetic breeds out there.
Mario is nowhere near 6D
i'd win
and also sonic beats mario and I mean if both are from the games then sonic wins,
since sonic is really stronk and faster than mario, yes mario reacted to light but remember sonic was 9.5x light speed before frontiers but now it's clear sonic wins, and I mean sonic from the games not archie, archie is overkill against mario
just put paper mario and archie sonic, literally sonic will still clap him but archie sonic isn't canon sonic like how paper mario isn't mario
so basically game sonic beats mario at hard diff and archie beats the shit out of paper mario mid diff. (literally paper mario has no way of escaping the zone of silence)
Both have immeasurable speed lmao and paper Mario has so many ways to escape the zone of silence and hax that Archie Sonic can’t counter ( cutout,paperize, dimensional flipping, star rod, 1000 arms etc. )
9.5x the speed of light 😭😭💔
1) base sonic is WAY faster than that and so is base Mario
2) paper mario DEMOLISHES Archie Sonic, Archie Sonic isn’t even as strong as game sonic he’s just overwanked
@@Electricswitchaltbro you forget that archie can send paper mario to the zone of silence making paper mario unable to win.
@@Electricswitchalt and I said "sonic was 9.5x light speed" and I said that because at the time that was his speed.
@@SansINess53 you cleary just ignored all of paper Mario counters for the zone of silence
Sonic slams but you got to the conclusion wrong.
L
Sonic blitzes
These Mario fanboys deadass lost their mind 💀
Relax for once it’s just someone’s opinion
How?
We aren't sending you death threats or Insulting you we are just debunking your video and adressesing how the video wasnt well reseached
If you came here to try making one of the most popular debates and expect to have nobody disagree with you thats childish
@@BowserEditz it’s not ass research or anything like that, Mario just doesn’t scale that high
I am aware that people will disagree with me don’t get me wrong, look at my Goku vs sonic and Naruto vs luffy vids,
@@mexicancj I never said it was "ass researched" I said it wasn't well researched
And No Mario does scale higher than you think + you didn't even adresss all the other things that makes mario Outer or beyond 7D