I would also add that the literal Nestorian Church, the Assyrian Church of the East, is technically okay with calling Mary Theotokos, they just don't have it in their liturgy as much. Nestorius was a moderate Nestorian compared to John MacArthur
@@Young_Anglican you made it out this time... bishop-lover... jokes aside, This video was infinitely more straightforward than I had expected, good stuff!
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus! John 3:16 Romans 6:23❤😊
As an Eastern Orthodox, I find the Anglican tradition really beautiful, especially the a cappella singing that I often listen online from Canterbury. And thanks to the Anglicans we got the KJV one of my favourite Bible translations in English.
This video is so weird. You would think Anglican 1st then Methodist. I don't really think you understand Methodism and they do have apostolic succession. John Wesley was an Anglican Priest. There is a day in the Church to him and Charles. The reason it started was because the Church of England was ran by rich people and did nothing for the poor and oppressed. They didn't even want poor people to come into the church. This why Wesley had to preach on the streets. They had a form of Godliness but no real power. Methodist have Bishops and follow the Articles of the Anglican Church. The liturgy is basically the same as the Book of Common Prayer. It is also interesting your views on schism when the ACNA is not even recognized by the Anglican Communion and is in schism with the Episcopal Church.
I think it's interesting too that they put Methodist and church of the Nazarene so far apart, since I have found them to be very similar in practice. In many ways I think church of the Nazarene was a response to liberalism invading the Methodist movement. Nowadays I just call myself a Wesleyan aremenian, because the Methodist movement has moved far away from the teachings of Wesley
As a Baptist, I like watching your videos. It’s interesting to hear different perspectives in theology. If you had a tier list for who makes the best casseroles, Baptists would definitely get S tier 😂
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus! John 3:16 Romans 6:23❤😊
The phrase "slap happy schismatics" is the best thing to come out of this video. That's not an insult to the video, I just find that phrase really funny and accurate.
So true with Sabbath keepers. I've noticed they're often not far from going back into the Galatian heresy, and then denying the Deity of Christ. It's actually very sad.
(I know I shouldn't, but I just can't help it.) At my Nazarene Church on Sunday, I tried to be really carefully watching for any of these concerning things going on ( 36:00 ) that you warned about. Perhaps my senses are dulled. I'm curious how the Methodists get to hang out in B-tier (if I recall correctly) while their Wesleyan Holiness cousins, the poor Nazarenes, get relegated to D-Deck, and are labled as Concerning? My Good Christian Brother: what did we poor Nazarenes do?
Well, my bracket was busted early. I had the Reformed Episcopal Church losing to Foursquare Church in the quarterfinals. It was a longshot, but I felt pretty good about it.
As a former Seventh-Day Adventist now researching which denomination has the truth, I have really loved the balance of tradition and Biblical authority I see at the foundation of Anglicanism. I really like your conclusion about how a lot of the groups that try and follow the true biblical model for the day of worship usually end up being schismatic about everything else. I would say that is an astute observation. I definitely am still mostly on the side of worshipping on the seventh day rather than Sunday, however, everything else I have studied out in Adventism just doesn’t stand the test of biblical accuracy. Pray for me as I continue to discern!
If it helps, I've left seventh day Adventism and decided to become Anglican. I think once you understand that the Adventist concept of law is wrong it really helps. Once the understanding that the moral law does not equal the 10 commandments (I e moral laws exist outside of them and therefore it can make sense that ceremonial laws can exist in them) but they are referred to in the bible as the "tablets of the covenant" it really helps. Lastly the evidence of history "outside of how Adventist view history" sealed it. Christians worshipping in Sunday before Constantine, Sunday not replacing the Sabbath but our Sabbath rest is in Christ. And Sunday being just a worship day. Methodism and Lutheranism would also appeal to me.
The Baptist church was a more natural choice for me when I left Adventism. It's an independent conservative church that sings hymns which I really loved from my upbringing. I also subscribe to believer's baptism upon confession of faith, which rules out infant baptism, as well as the symbolic nature of sacraments being a memorial of the death of Jesus. Apostolic succession is a non-issue for me, given that disciples wandered off into all the world preaching the gospel, while Paul's conversion was as a result of meeting the resurrected Jesus one on one as opposed to taking or handing over the reins across apostles. I hope you can find your rest in Christ.🙏
I do think classical reformed catholic Anglicanism is S tier. But what would you do with modern charismatic/Pentecostal Anglicans? Or Anglicans who ordain women? This is why I love Anglicanism (when it’s done right), but it also frustrates me to no end (when it’s done wrong) haha.
You could ask this question for almost every denomination on the list to be honest when it comes to things like ordaining women, unbiblical definitions of marriage, etc.
@@MattTheMethodist You would be right in saying you could apply these heretical practices to every protestant denomination but not to the one true, Holy Catholic Church
@@aidan4530 The same holy Catholic church which has ordered its bishops to keep offering Eucharist to a president who denies Christian principles on life? (despite long-standing guidance not to) If the Roman church actually followed its own principles, that would be great but the same would be true for the UMC and most of the mainline protestant churches.
@@MattTheMethodist Clergymen that outwardly disobey Church teaching, whether it be explicitly in a James Martin character or implicitly through your example of allowing the Eucharist to be given to apostate members of the church, only serves to prove that the Holy Catholic Church is true as it condemns these practices. Sure, it doesn’t go so far as excommunicating these members of the church but it does condemn these practices, unlike every other denomination that outwardly condones teaching contrary to the gospel; such as same-sex unions and female priests. From the human level the church isn’t perfect: there is always going to be members of the church that lead others astray, but the church itself as an institution stands to thwart heresy, it never condones it. The same could not be said for every other sect of Christianity that it exists
@@aidan4530 I agree that the Latin church, via its written statements of policy, does condemn these acts but the fact remains that the current head of the Latin church does not. We know that the pope told Biden to keep receiving Eucharist, which is not only at odds with the policy of the church but at odds with what's best for Biden himself (who should be called to repent and seek forgiveness for his apostasy).
17:17 based on this, would you say it is problematic and/or sinful to join with the ACNA dioceses which ordain women, since doing so is submitting to the authourity of a bishop who is a heretic (or at least severely heterodox, depending on which definition of "heresy" one prefers)?
@@bigtobacco1098Very true, sadly. I would be willing to hold out in the ACNA until the situation improves but I am not sure about the morality of communing under a heretical bishop.
The WO situation in ACNA is indeed troubling. Thankfully for now I am a member of traditional parish in a diocese that does not ordain women to the presbyterate.
What further differentiates baptists from non-denominationals is that they use confessions (like I hold to the Orthodox Creed of 1678). They also tend to emphasize their Anglicanism "heritage", that they were originally english separatists (with Thomas Helwys being their founder)
Interesting to hear your opinions and I love knowing about the diversity of beliefs Christians have. I'm a (Christian) Quaker myself and have no problem if there are concerns in how we worship. I totally get where you're coming from, we won't be the right group for everyone. Either way, take care and God bless Friend :)
Love your channel and your content! Especially the interviews that you have had. But I do want to point out that Nazarenes are doctrinally hard core, socially conservative Methodists. While we believe to have apostolic succession, and our “bishops” we prefer to call General Superintendents, we can acknowledge that our line of succession goes through John Wesley which many don’t believe to be valid. We hold that he was secretly and irregularly consecrated as Bishop of the Methodist Societies by Eastern Orthodox Bishop Erasmus of Crete.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus! John 3:16 Romans 6:23❤😊❤😊
to defend my fellow Baptists, the bible never ever spoke about the baptism of infants, also whether communion is symbolism or not, we still use it for the same reasons and ways, we still do this n remembrance and take these sacraments.
7:20 The green catholic circle is Byzantine Catholicism. The other two are Syriac and Coptic Catholicism. Maybe use a paint bucket to make the Latin Catholic circle orange, because Utrecht.
As a Copt, I respect your decision. I also respect on how you went through each of your critiques with love in a non-judgmental way. I wholeheartedly wish for all churches to unite one day. Pray for me.
Southern Baptist here - I have to say I LOVE Anglican Mass - and I make it a point to visit one every year just so I can get my liturgical experience/fix 😂
7:16 Those different colored Catholics are all various versions of Eastern Rite Catholicism. You can tell because they have little Eastern and Oriental crosses in the big Catholic one. So not Old Catholic; I'm not sure those guys made RZ's cut.
While watching this, I am sad that I must resort to the internet and "escape" in a sense to interact with discussions such as these. Hopefully though, with the uptick in channels such as yourself and the rising popularity of religious discussions more people will become comfortable with faith in the real world. Oh, how I love faith.
The ACNA is hard to take Serious as a Denomination because they are tiny 128 thousand plus members.As of 2023 they had 84, 794 attendees on a weekly basis.
Should I leave the Anglican Province of America (APA) to join an Episcopal Church (20 minutes away) and the Episcopal Fellowship of Revival? (It's similar to Operation Reconquista)
You mention Athanasius' view that, even if every other bishop in the world is apostate, you submit to your own bishop insofar as he is orthodox. Where in his works can I find this view?
Where woyld you put the Charismatic Episcopal Church? it is basically Pentecostals who became Episcopalians after reading the church fathers. It was formed 1970, so it is still new, but it is very high church, as it claims apostolic succesion from old catholics, and has the 7 holy sacraments.
As a Lutheran specifically from the LCMS, I gotta ask: assuming that I stay Lutheran, would you personally see it better that I remain LCMS and simply pray for a valid episcopacy to be established? Or should I go "Redeemed Zoomer mode" and join the ELCA since they have an episcopal polity?
I mean... if those are the only two options? It is gonna depend on the bishop you would have in the ELCA, but likely it would be best to stay in the LCMS and petition for episcopacy, but irl I don't see why you couldn't just become an Anglican Lutheran
Why do you care about the episcopacy so much? Our Confessions state that apostolic succession is not necessary for a valid sacrament, and that the bishop-presbyter distinction is of human origin.
@NotRexButCaesar I don’t know about that… I think that the eastern and western theological traditions are for the most part unfamiliar with each other and tend to over generalize.
@Young_Anglican It was actually his other channel that he shares with Daniel Long called Wartburg Castle. They have a playlist about baptism, and you have two videos in it.
I think you are mistaken about what some of these groups are, but good list. I don’t think you understand what Mennonites believe as someone who has known a ton. Also, their history I think you are mistaken on as well. Also, The Puritans were reformed Presbyterian and reformed Baptist in belief, so they would be in those groups. Reformed Baptist is very different than regular Southern Baptist.
I'm an Irish Anglican and my tier list would look very similar to yours. A few small tweaks here and there. I'd definitely separate Episcopal Lutherans from non-Episcopal Lutherans. European Anglicans are in full Altar and Pulpit (i.e. we can exchange ordained priests) communion with the Nordic and Baltic Lutherans, though not the German ones, as they were merged with the German Reformed to create the 'Evangelical Church' (thanks to the Prussians). I myself live in Norway and attend Lutheran church (due to the lack of Anglican churches in my area), and I have had a few theological issues around Holy Communion. They allow non-ordained seminarians, Deacons and Catechists to perform the Holy Communion liturgy, something I consider invalid. Also they pour the blood of Christ down the drain after the service, as they believe that the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is temporary, only lasting until the end of the service... quite different from Irish Anglicanism, which maintains that the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is permanent... thereby the Priest has to eat and drink what's left of the Body and Blood of Christ after the service.
Yeah! I grew up F tier and moved to B tier. Although I do have a friend who went from F to S. :) Although I would critique the prophesy comment regarding Mennonites---Menno Simons and beyond were very Biblicist and rejected prophetic revelation, unlike many of the earlier radicals.
Being in communion with means you do not have organisational links but you will yake communion with eachother, each church recognises the sacraments of yhe other. Being in a denomination means you are actually the same organisation, linked by a common leadership structure. So being in a denomination is a much closer link than simply being in communion with.
Why do you put Roman-Catholics in b-tier, due to theology, when at the same time you seem to accept and embrace Ritualists and Anglo-Catholics in your own tradition (like Calvin Robinson) - who in theological terms are basically Roman Catholics without the Pope?
Lutheran here, ELDoNA. We're an "oddity" in the world of American Lutheranism in that we do have an episcopal form of government, whereas most other Lutherans such as LCMS and WELS practice a congregational form of government, similar to Baptists. One doctrinal point that I want to make about the video is that you say the Campbellites believe in baptismal regeneration. That's not exactly the case. They believe in what could be called "baptismal remission" of sins, but not baptismal regeneration. Why? Because the modern Campbellites are basically just a repackaging/renaming of the old heresy of Pelagianism. They absolutely deny Original Sin and that we are born with a corrupted nature. I once debated a Campbellite online and he jumped through many hoops to deny that mankind is corrupted with sin at his conception. He forcefully argued that we are born with essentially a clean slate and that we don't actually need regeneration, which would make sense if they are correct in saying we are born not only without sin but also without a sinful nature. What would be there to regenerate if it's already clean?
John Knox was too based for me not to be Presbyterian. Baptists, non-denoms, and Pentecostals (especially Pentecostals) should definitely be in F tier with the Quakers. I work with Anabaptists and they gave me their school history book on their tradition yesterday so I will let you know a bit more about their history eventually.
@BenjaminAnderson21 Well, actually, despite the fact that the early church had bishops, the early church government was actually a presbytery style government. And when I say John Knox was based, I mean look up some of his sermons or books, not necessarily his church government.
How would you compare an obviously liberal, even heretical group like the Epicopal Church or The Church of England that has Apostolic Succession as compared to a continuing Anglican group or a Lutheran group that is theologically orthodox but no longer has Apostolic Succession?
This video assumes that the denominations are faithful to their traditions. It is a whole nother issue when they wear the denominational brand name like a skin suit after they long abandoned the theology.
All these teir lists come down to "Do you have a low or high view of ecclesiology?" its funny. If you have the office of the priest and above him a bishop you will place high, if you have a only a pastor you will place low. Zoomers be wanting that structure hard bro. Please give me that divine grace I cant get it without a man wearing a collar to mediate it for me!
Im not a fan of John MacArthur as a Pastor. But Grace Community church which he leads is a Non Denominational church .He has Pastored there since 1969 . It is not a Baptist Church.
I think it's absolutely insane that communions that have anathematized people over fake doctrines and declared Anglican orders "absolutely null and utterly void" is placed above other denominations that don't do that. This is the traditional "tradition" over truth argument. Because they are more traditional looking...
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus! John 3:16 Romans 6:23❤😊❤😊
The Old Catholics say that Nicaea 2 is dogma, so I'd definitely put them almost as low as the Roman Catholics. The yellow and green crosses you put in C tier are two other Oriental Orthodox churches. I don't know which ones they represent, but the ones left are the Syriac, Ethiopian, and Eritrean Oriental Orthodox churches. The dark red cross represents (I believe) the Sedevacantists, though I could be wrong. Theirs might be the upside down cross.
@@j.athanasius9832No, the ACNA only affirms the “Christological clarifications” made by Nicaea 2, “in so far as they are agreeable to the Holy Scriptures,” and they don't affirm it as dogma. The REC, in the appendix to its constitutions and canons, says, “Nicea II (787), the so-called seventh ecumenical council, is disputed in respect of its ecumenicity and application, though in principle its condemnation of Iconoclasm is conceded to be orthodox.” This and the ACNA's doctrinal statements are the only ones I could find which mention Nicaea 2. The 39 Articles repudiate the Romish doctrine of icon veneration, which is the doctrine taught by Nicaea 2. “The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping, and Adoration as well of Images as of Reliques, and also invocation of Saints, is a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.” I do wish that the ACNA and the REC repudiated Nicaea 2 for icon veneration and declared the iconoclasts justified in, after the example of King Hezekiah destroying the bronze serpent, destroying the images of the saints which were being worshipped, even if having images isn't necessarily bad, but it is what it is.
@@j.athanasius9832 The ACNA only accepts the “Christological distinctions” made by Nicaea 2, “in so far as they are in accordance with the Scriptures.” The REC says in their Constitutions and Canons, “Nicea II (787), the so-called seventh ecumenical council, is disputed in respect of its ecumenicity and application, though in principle its condemnation of Iconoclasm is conceded to be orthodox.” The 39 Articles reject the Romish doctrine of the adoration and worshipping of images as repugnant to the Word of God. The Romish doctrine is the doctrine taught by Nicaea 2. I wish that the ACNA and REC more clearly repudiated Nicaea 2 for its doctrine of icon veneration, but it is what it is.
Can't speak for all baptists on presence but spiritual presence vs. symbolism to me seems like a distinction without a difference. The use of metaphor is an attempt to spiritually impute something with the characteristics of something else. When the metaphor is divine, so too is the spirit imputed. That said, I doubt there are any baptists who believe in physical transubstantiation.
I propose that the United Methodist Church should be removed from the board (they are Unitarian Universalists now) and Methodism should be regraded without. The Global Methodist church is going to be closer to Anglicanism.
I am not sure the modern Orthodox Church is the same as the early church. When I read the early Greek fathers, I see a lot of differences from what developed later. For example, their theology of icons is problematic. They have always been far too tied in with emperors and kings. The teaching on the essence-energies distinction threatens divine simplicity.
@@marilynmelzian7370 Theology of icons is not problematic whatsoever, iconoclasm is a classical HERESY. Yes Christianity doesnt have a separation of church and state presupposition that you believe it does. It doesnt threaten divine simplicity it goes against ABSOLUTE divine simplicity which is just another roman catholic based theological presupposition.
Brother baptism doesn't save. We are saved by grace through faith. Maybe some qualities to baptism do effect the person, but believers get baptised as a command, not for salvation.
We are Anglican. We are orthodox. We believe baptism saves us because it is a mystery/sacrament of God’s grace and the vehicle by which He communicates His saving and divine grace. Full stop. It is a fundamentally different understanding than the various Protestant understandings (other than maybe a very classical Lutheran). May God be with you ❤
@@HolyAdonisthank you. I really don't understand how someone can say that the Bible doesn't say that baptism saves, when there's a verse that literally says "baptism now saves you"!
We don't. We follow God. The only thing Henry VIII did for the church was declare himself the figurative head of the Church of England. Our doctrines were the result of the English Reformation by Thomas Cranmer and others after that.
@@coffeehousedialogue Friend, you can’t rewrite history. He broke away from the Catholic Church because he wanted a divorce and the Pope would not grant it. He started your church and had parliament declare him the supreme leader of your church. I understand it’s a very uncomfortable truth to accept. All your Christian family prior to this would almost certainly have been Catholic. Why not come home?
@@LJT1981Church of England was gonna inevitably break from Rome sooner or later, There were already clergy with John Wycliffe’s and the Lollard’s reforming views centuries before Henry was even born. Even if Henry had stayed in communion with Rome throughout his lifetime, Henry’s successor would have broken ties with Rome anyways. Have you noticed how Northern European nations were the ones who embraced Reformation? Spain,Italy and France the Romance speaking nations were more loyal to Rome since they’re culturally closer. Rome was out of touch with Northern Europeans. England was destined to be Protestant.
@@LJT1981 Who the heck denies his motives for declaring himself head of the Church of England? All I'm saying is, he only declared royal supremacy. He did not form our doctrines.
I would also add that the literal Nestorian Church, the Assyrian Church of the East, is technically okay with calling Mary Theotokos, they just don't have it in their liturgy as much. Nestorius was a moderate Nestorian compared to John MacArthur
Hi
Dude redeemedzoomer you’re absolutely COMInG for J Mac these days and I am so here for it! 😂👍🏼👏🏽
Atta boy calling out heresy when you see it 👍🏼
If Lutheran isn't at least A tier, your sub count is about to lose a devastating 1 person. 😡
SAME
Well I believe you will be pleasantly surprised 😎
@@Young_Anglican you made it out this time... bishop-lover...
jokes aside, This video was infinitely more straightforward than I had expected, good stuff!
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊
@@christianweatherbroadcasting I'm pretty everyone here already knows the gospel
There IS an old Catholic seal but not listen here cuz I only used it once. What you just used is Armenian Catholic
Lol whoops
Unban me from your server RZ
What does it look like?
@@carlose4314 Jerusalem cross with yellow background
Eh good enough American Catholic seems more like the Espionage of Episcopalians on truth
I watched to see Baptist put in F tier and was pleasantly surprised that we made it into the middle of C.
Should have been F though
As an Eastern Orthodox, I find the Anglican tradition really beautiful, especially the a cappella singing that I often listen online from Canterbury. And thanks to the Anglicans we got the KJV one of my favourite Bible translations in English.
It’s so beautiful when they ordain transgender people.
This video is so weird. You would think Anglican 1st then Methodist. I don't really think you understand Methodism and they do have apostolic succession. John Wesley was an Anglican Priest. There is a day in the Church to him and Charles. The reason it started was because the Church of England was ran by rich people and did nothing for the poor and oppressed. They didn't even want poor people to come into the church. This why Wesley had to preach on the streets. They had a form of Godliness but no real power. Methodist have Bishops and follow the Articles of the Anglican Church. The liturgy is basically the same as the Book of Common Prayer. It is also interesting your views on schism when the ACNA is not even recognized by the Anglican Communion and is in schism with the Episcopal Church.
I think it's interesting too that they put Methodist and church of the Nazarene so far apart, since I have found them to be very similar in practice. In many ways I think church of the Nazarene was a response to liberalism invading the Methodist movement. Nowadays I just call myself a Wesleyan aremenian, because the Methodist movement has moved far away from the teachings of Wesley
As a Baptist, I like watching your videos. It’s interesting to hear different perspectives in theology. If you had a tier list for who makes the best casseroles, Baptists would definitely get S tier 😂
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊
Bros never been to a mormon potluck
As a Baptist, I concur! 😂 we can’t sing, but we sure can cook!
Quick minor correction at 7:50, it's different rights within Catholicism with Roman (Latin) church being one of them.
"Roman Catholic" is usually used to refer to the whole collection of bishops under Rome, not exclusively those in the Latin rite.
The phrase "slap happy schismatics" is the best thing to come out of this video. That's not an insult to the video, I just find that phrase really funny and accurate.
So true with Sabbath keepers. I've noticed they're often not far from going back into the Galatian heresy, and then denying the Deity of Christ. It's actually very sad.
(I know I shouldn't, but I just can't help it.)
At my Nazarene Church on Sunday, I tried to be really carefully watching for any of these concerning things going on ( 36:00 ) that you warned about. Perhaps my senses are dulled.
I'm curious how the Methodists get to hang out in B-tier (if I recall correctly) while their Wesleyan Holiness cousins, the poor Nazarenes, get relegated to D-Deck, and are labled as Concerning? My Good Christian Brother: what did we poor Nazarenes do?
What would your tier list look like if we were living in the year 850 ad?
He can't answer that.
You didn’t have to do that to him 😭
Well, my bracket was busted early. I had the Reformed Episcopal Church losing to Foursquare Church in the quarterfinals. It was a longshot, but I felt pretty good about it.
As a former Seventh-Day Adventist now researching which denomination has the truth, I have really loved the balance of tradition and Biblical authority I see at the foundation of Anglicanism. I really like your conclusion about how a lot of the groups that try and follow the true biblical model for the day of worship usually end up being schismatic about everything else. I would say that is an astute observation. I definitely am still mostly on the side of worshipping on the seventh day rather than Sunday, however, everything else I have studied out in Adventism just doesn’t stand the test of biblical accuracy. Pray for me as I continue to discern!
If it helps, I've left seventh day Adventism and decided to become Anglican. I think once you understand that the Adventist concept of law is wrong it really helps.
Once the understanding that the moral law does not equal the 10 commandments (I e moral laws exist outside of them and therefore it can make sense that ceremonial laws can exist in them) but they are referred to in the bible as the "tablets of the covenant" it really helps.
Lastly the evidence of history "outside of how Adventist view history" sealed it. Christians worshipping in Sunday before Constantine, Sunday not replacing the Sabbath but our Sabbath rest is in Christ. And Sunday being just a worship day.
Methodism and Lutheranism would also appeal to me.
What about Mark 2:23-28 and Exodus 20:8-11 and matthew 24:20.
The Baptist church was a more natural choice for me when I left Adventism. It's an independent conservative church that sings hymns which I really loved from my upbringing. I also subscribe to believer's baptism upon confession of faith, which rules out infant baptism, as well as the symbolic nature of sacraments being a memorial of the death of Jesus. Apostolic succession is a non-issue for me, given that disciples wandered off into all the world preaching the gospel, while Paul's conversion was as a result of meeting the resurrected Jesus one on one as opposed to taking or handing over the reins across apostles. I hope you can find your rest in Christ.🙏
I do think classical reformed catholic Anglicanism is S tier. But what would you do with modern charismatic/Pentecostal Anglicans? Or Anglicans who ordain women? This is why I love Anglicanism (when it’s done right), but it also frustrates me to no end (when it’s done wrong) haha.
You could ask this question for almost every denomination on the list to be honest when it comes to things like ordaining women, unbiblical definitions of marriage, etc.
@@MattTheMethodist You would be right in saying you could apply these heretical practices to every protestant denomination but not to the one true, Holy Catholic Church
@@aidan4530 The same holy Catholic church which has ordered its bishops to keep offering Eucharist to a president who denies Christian principles on life? (despite long-standing guidance not to)
If the Roman church actually followed its own principles, that would be great but the same would be true for the UMC and most of the mainline protestant churches.
@@MattTheMethodist Clergymen that outwardly disobey Church teaching, whether it be explicitly in a James Martin character or implicitly through your example of allowing the Eucharist to be given to apostate members of the church, only serves to prove that the Holy Catholic Church is true as it condemns these practices. Sure, it doesn’t go so far as excommunicating these members of the church but it does condemn these practices, unlike every other denomination that outwardly condones teaching contrary to the gospel; such as same-sex unions and female priests.
From the human level the church isn’t perfect: there is always going to be members of the church that lead others astray, but the church itself as an institution stands to thwart heresy, it never condones it. The same could not be said for every other sect of Christianity that it exists
@@aidan4530 I agree that the Latin church, via its written statements of policy, does condemn these acts but the fact remains that the current head of the Latin church does not.
We know that the pope told Biden to keep receiving Eucharist, which is not only at odds with the policy of the church but at odds with what's best for Biden himself (who should be called to repent and seek forgiveness for his apostasy).
17:17 based on this, would you say it is problematic and/or sinful to join with the ACNA dioceses which ordain women, since doing so is submitting to the authourity of a bishop who is a heretic (or at least severely heterodox, depending on which definition of "heresy" one prefers)?
Anglicans are in disarray...
@@bigtobacco1098Very true, sadly. I would be willing to hold out in the ACNA until the situation improves but I am not sure about the morality of communing under a heretical bishop.
The WO situation in ACNA is indeed troubling. Thankfully for now I am a member of traditional parish in a diocese that does not ordain women to the presbyterate.
As a Lutheran, my favorite non Lutheran tradition is probably Anglican/Episcopal.
What further differentiates baptists from non-denominationals is that they use confessions (like I hold to the Orthodox Creed of 1678).
They also tend to emphasize their Anglicanism "heritage", that they were originally english separatists (with Thomas Helwys being their founder)
Not all of them use it
Watching this as an old catholic. always nice to get mentioned :D
Interesting to hear your opinions and I love knowing about the diversity of beliefs Christians have. I'm a (Christian) Quaker myself and have no problem if there are concerns in how we worship. I totally get where you're coming from, we won't be the right group for everyone. Either way, take care and God bless Friend :)
Love your channel and your content! Especially the interviews that you have had. But I do want to point out that Nazarenes are doctrinally hard core, socially conservative Methodists. While we believe to have apostolic succession, and our “bishops” we prefer to call General Superintendents, we can acknowledge that our line of succession goes through John Wesley which many don’t believe to be valid. We hold that he was secretly and irregularly consecrated as Bishop of the Methodist Societies by Eastern Orthodox Bishop Erasmus of Crete.
Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing. Reformed baptist here! 😄
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊❤😊
This video will be good. Godspeed brother!
to defend my fellow Baptists, the bible never ever spoke about the baptism of infants, also whether communion is symbolism or not, we still use it for the same reasons and ways, we still do this n remembrance and take these sacraments.
7:20 The green catholic circle is Byzantine Catholicism. The other two are Syriac and Coptic Catholicism. Maybe use a paint bucket to make the Latin Catholic circle orange, because Utrecht.
As a Copt, I respect your decision. I also respect on how you went through each of your critiques with love in a non-judgmental way. I wholeheartedly wish for all churches to unite one day. Pray for me.
Why are Seventh-Day Adventists a heretical group? This really wasn't explained at all.
He has no idea what he is taking about when it comes to them.
Southern Baptist here - I have to say I LOVE Anglican Mass - and I make it a point to visit one every year just so I can get my liturgical experience/fix 😂
I’m assuming you would wrap in LDS/‘restoration’ with seventh day adventists, or are they in an even lower tier?
LDS aren’t even Christian, tbh. SDA are just weird, but still pretty much Christian
7:16 Those different colored Catholics are all various versions of Eastern Rite Catholicism. You can tell because they have little Eastern and Oriental crosses in the big Catholic one. So not Old Catholic; I'm not sure those guys made RZ's cut.
While watching this, I am sad that I must resort to the internet and "escape" in a sense to interact with discussions such as these. Hopefully though, with the uptick in channels such as yourself and the rising popularity of religious discussions more people will become comfortable with faith in the real world. Oh, how I love faith.
The ACNA is hard to take Serious as a Denomination because they are tiny 128 thousand plus members.As of 2023 they had 84, 794 attendees on a weekly basis.
Should I leave the Anglican Province of America (APA) to join an Episcopal Church (20 minutes away) and the Episcopal Fellowship of Revival? (It's similar to Operation Reconquista)
Nope
You mention Athanasius' view that, even if every other bishop in the world is apostate, you submit to your own bishop insofar as he is orthodox. Where in his works can I find this view?
Where woyld you put the Charismatic Episcopal Church? it is basically Pentecostals who became Episcopalians after reading the church fathers. It was formed 1970, so it is still new, but it is very high church, as it claims apostolic succesion from old catholics, and has the 7 holy sacraments.
As a Lutheran specifically from the LCMS, I gotta ask: assuming that I stay Lutheran, would you personally see it better that I remain LCMS and simply pray for a valid episcopacy to be established? Or should I go "Redeemed Zoomer mode" and join the ELCA since they have an episcopal polity?
I mean... if those are the only two options? It is gonna depend on the bishop you would have in the ELCA, but likely it would be best to stay in the LCMS and petition for episcopacy, but irl I don't see why you couldn't just become an Anglican Lutheran
Why do you care about the episcopacy so much? Our Confessions state that apostolic succession is not necessary for a valid sacrament, and that the bishop-presbyter distinction is of human origin.
Why is being western a point in favor of a denomination in your view?
@NotRexButCaesar I don’t know about that… I think that the eastern and western theological traditions are for the most part unfamiliar with each other and tend to over generalize.
Probably the filioque and original sin.
I found your channel, not through Redeemed Zoomer, but through Stephen Kozar of The Messed Up Church.
I wasn't aware that they mentioned me. What video of their's led you to me?
@Young_Anglican It was actually his other channel that he shares with Daniel Long called Wartburg Castle. They have a playlist about baptism, and you have two videos in it.
I would love to have a conversation about Nazarenes and Anglicans as I am a part of a Wesleyan Anglican Society.
I think you are mistaken about what some of these groups are, but good list. I don’t think you understand what Mennonites believe as someone who has known a ton. Also, their history I think you are mistaken on as well. Also, The Puritans were reformed Presbyterian and reformed Baptist in belief, so they would be in those groups. Reformed Baptist is very different than regular Southern Baptist.
Majorly stoked for this video. Love the regularity of your vids Joe!
I think tiermaker allows you to upload your own images to a tierlist.
How and why was Anglican Church started....🤔
@@maxwellr2533 th-cam.com/video/ZM0lExu3brM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Pv_7NBUKwCY4HAKQ
32:34 You put Ethiopian and Syriac Orthodox behind Assyrian Church of the East.
I probably mixed up the icons. Imagine for Copts I mean all Miaphysites
I think I can guess, but where do you place Messianic Judaism?
I'm an Irish Anglican and my tier list would look very similar to yours. A few small tweaks here and there. I'd definitely separate Episcopal Lutherans from non-Episcopal Lutherans. European Anglicans are in full Altar and Pulpit (i.e. we can exchange ordained priests) communion with the Nordic and Baltic Lutherans, though not the German ones, as they were merged with the German Reformed to create the 'Evangelical Church' (thanks to the Prussians).
I myself live in Norway and attend Lutheran church (due to the lack of Anglican churches in my area), and I have had a few theological issues around Holy Communion. They allow non-ordained seminarians, Deacons and Catechists to perform the Holy Communion liturgy, something I consider invalid. Also they pour the blood of Christ down the drain after the service, as they believe that the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is temporary, only lasting until the end of the service... quite different from Irish Anglicanism, which maintains that the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is permanent... thereby the Priest has to eat and drink what's left of the Body and Blood of Christ after the service.
Yeah! I grew up F tier and moved to B tier. Although I do have a friend who went from F to S. :)
Although I would critique the prophesy comment regarding Mennonites---Menno Simons and beyond were very Biblicist and rejected prophetic revelation, unlike many of the earlier radicals.
What does being in communion with as opposed to being in a denomination mean as far as Christian unity and the visible church?
Being in communion with means you do not have organisational links but you will yake communion with eachother, each church recognises the sacraments of yhe other.
Being in a denomination means you are actually the same organisation, linked by a common leadership structure.
So being in a denomination is a much closer link than simply being in communion with.
How is lutheran different from church of nazarene
Why do you put Roman-Catholics in b-tier, due to theology, when at the same time you seem to accept and embrace Ritualists and Anglo-Catholics in your own tradition (like Calvin Robinson) - who in theological terms are basically Roman Catholics without the Pope?
I think the future of certain continuing anglican groups are brighter than others. The APA is a great province in full communion work the REC.
Lutheran here, ELDoNA. We're an "oddity" in the world of American Lutheranism in that we do have an episcopal form of government, whereas most other Lutherans such as LCMS and WELS practice a congregational form of government, similar to Baptists. One doctrinal point that I want to make about the video is that you say the Campbellites believe in baptismal regeneration. That's not exactly the case. They believe in what could be called "baptismal remission" of sins, but not baptismal regeneration. Why? Because the modern Campbellites are basically just a repackaging/renaming of the old heresy of Pelagianism. They absolutely deny Original Sin and that we are born with a corrupted nature. I once debated a Campbellite online and he jumped through many hoops to deny that mankind is corrupted with sin at his conception. He forcefully argued that we are born with essentially a clean slate and that we don't actually need regeneration, which would make sense if they are correct in saying we are born not only without sin but also without a sinful nature. What would be there to regenerate if it's already clean?
I would argue that no Catholic in communion with Rome could say someone is damned to hell based on the precedent set by the Second Council.
Pietists: Moravians, Evangelical Free, Evangelical Covenant, Lutheran Brethren
John Knox was too based for me not to be Presbyterian. Baptists, non-denoms, and Pentecostals (especially Pentecostals) should definitely be in F tier with the Quakers. I work with Anabaptists and they gave me their school history book on their tradition yesterday so I will let you know a bit more about their history eventually.
Rejecting the biblical and universal historical model for church government is not based.
@BenjaminAnderson21 Well, actually, despite the fact that the early church had bishops, the early church government was actually a presbytery style government. And when I say John Knox was based, I mean look up some of his sermons or books, not necessarily his church government.
@@jkproluigi7473 GIGACHAD John Knox put them Jezebel female monarchs in their place
Brother you earned yourself a subscriber
as a lifelong baptist i have never once heard the baptism of babies brought up. yall are reaching so hard on that.
No one thought it was a problem through all of early church history so I think us baptists are actually way in the minority.
How would you compare an obviously liberal, even heretical group like the Epicopal Church or The Church of England that has Apostolic Succession as compared to a continuing Anglican group or a Lutheran group that is theologically orthodox but no longer has Apostolic Succession?
This video assumes that the denominations are faithful to their traditions. It is a whole nother issue when they wear the denominational brand name like a skin suit after they long abandoned the theology.
All these teir lists come down to "Do you have a low or high view of ecclesiology?" its funny. If you have the office of the priest and above him a bishop you will place high, if you have a only a pastor you will place low. Zoomers be wanting that structure hard bro. Please give me that divine grace I cant get it without a man wearing a collar to mediate it for me!
I pray that the Methodist rejoin the Anglican church.
Im not a fan of John MacArthur as a Pastor. But Grace Community church which he leads is a Non Denominational church .He has Pastored there since 1969 . It is not a Baptist Church.
I think it's absolutely insane that communions that have anathematized people over fake doctrines and declared Anglican orders "absolutely null and utterly void" is placed above other denominations that don't do that. This is the traditional "tradition" over truth argument. Because they are more traditional looking...
The ACNA has only been around since 2009. Yet they are top tier😂
You work really hard to condemn and exclude and dictate. Should look at that. Can you see it? Probably very hard to perceive.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊❤😊
The Hungarian Reformed to my knowledge kept the Episcopate.
So is this shoeing you would rather be congregationalist then coptic
I feel like my top three are dutch reformed - presbertyrian- lutheran
To be fair to the anabaptists, losing a lot of battles like they did will turn just about anyone pacifist
Lumping Pentecostal and Holiness with the restorationists is not kewl.
As a ex-Church of Christ, all "Restoration Movement" churches should be "F" tier!!
The Old Catholics say that Nicaea 2 is dogma, so I'd definitely put them almost as low as the Roman Catholics.
The yellow and green crosses you put in C tier are two other Oriental Orthodox churches. I don't know which ones they represent, but the ones left are the Syriac, Ethiopian, and Eritrean Oriental Orthodox churches.
The dark red cross represents (I believe) the Sedevacantists, though I could be wrong. Theirs might be the upside down cross.
So do traditional Anglicans including the Reformed Episcopal Church
@@j.athanasius9832No, the ACNA only affirms the “Christological clarifications” made by Nicaea 2, “in so far as they are agreeable to the Holy Scriptures,” and they don't affirm it as dogma.
The REC, in the appendix to its constitutions and canons, says, “Nicea II (787), the so-called seventh ecumenical council, is disputed in respect of its ecumenicity and application, though in principle its condemnation of Iconoclasm is conceded to be orthodox.” This and the ACNA's doctrinal statements are the only ones I could find which mention Nicaea 2.
The 39 Articles repudiate the Romish doctrine of icon veneration, which is the doctrine taught by Nicaea 2.
“The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping, and Adoration as well of Images as of Reliques, and also invocation of Saints, is a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.”
I do wish that the ACNA and the REC repudiated Nicaea 2 for icon veneration and declared the iconoclasts justified in, after the example of King Hezekiah destroying the bronze serpent, destroying the images of the saints which were being worshipped, even if having images isn't necessarily bad, but it is what it is.
@@j.athanasius9832 The ACNA only accepts the “Christological distinctions” made by Nicaea 2, “in so far as they are in accordance with the Scriptures.”
The REC says in their Constitutions and Canons, “Nicea II (787), the so-called seventh ecumenical council, is disputed in respect of its ecumenicity and application, though in principle its condemnation of Iconoclasm is conceded to be orthodox.”
The 39 Articles reject the Romish doctrine of the adoration and worshipping of images as repugnant to the Word of God. The Romish doctrine is the doctrine taught by Nicaea 2. I wish that the ACNA and REC more clearly repudiated Nicaea 2 for its doctrine of icon veneration, but it is what it is.
I left the rec over charismatics, mariolatry and non reformed clergy
Sedevacantists are usually represented by a sede vacante seal or SSPX sacred heart logo.
Your critique of Seventh-day Adventism was dismissively shallow. I get the impression you haven't actually learned much about the SDA church.
All spouting "truth" yet that truth is broken up into so many denominations.
Can't speak for all baptists on presence but spiritual presence vs. symbolism to me seems like a distinction without a difference. The use of metaphor is an attempt to spiritually impute something with the characteristics of something else. When the metaphor is divine, so too is the spirit imputed.
That said, I doubt there are any baptists who believe in physical transubstantiation.
"Catholics are similar to Anglicans", lol. Other way around
This should be cool
I propose that the United Methodist Church should be removed from the board (they are Unitarian Universalists now) and Methodism should be regraded without. The Global Methodist church is going to be closer to Anglicanism.
Also I dream of a day the Methodists rejoin the Mother church. But until then I pray for unity between the GMC and the ACNA
Imagine putting the Orthodox Church, the church of the first thousand years, in anything but S. L tier list. L take. L faith. W repentance needed
Cringe
@@thenewhope123 when
I am not sure the modern Orthodox Church is the same as the early church. When I read the early Greek fathers, I see a lot of differences from what developed later. For example, their theology of icons is problematic. They have always been far too tied in with emperors and kings. The teaching on the essence-energies distinction threatens divine simplicity.
@@marilynmelzian7370 Theology of icons is not problematic whatsoever, iconoclasm is a classical HERESY. Yes Christianity doesnt have a separation of church and state presupposition that you believe it does. It doesnt threaten divine simplicity it goes against ABSOLUTE divine simplicity which is just another roman catholic based theological presupposition.
As far as I know, Anglican soteriology is the closest position to Eastern Orthodox understanding of soteriology
?!?!?! 🤔🤔🤔 May I ask how in the world you came to that conclusion?
Total nonsense.
Sects is overrated
Roman Catholicism should be S tier
Yeah, I would agree.
Brother baptism doesn't save. We are saved by grace through faith. Maybe some qualities to baptism do effect the person, but believers get baptised as a command, not for salvation.
We are Anglican. We are orthodox. We believe baptism saves us because it is a mystery/sacrament of God’s grace and the vehicle by which He communicates His saving and divine grace. Full stop. It is a fundamentally different understanding than the various Protestant understandings (other than maybe a very classical Lutheran). May God be with you ❤
@BigBloc87 that might be tradition but not the word of god
@@joshuaboyd6253 we just do what the apostles did in Acts and baptize believers AND their families including children
baptist nonsense. 1 Peter 3:21 And baptism, which this prefigured now saves you.
@@HolyAdonisthank you. I really don't understand how someone can say that the Bible doesn't say that baptism saves, when there's a verse that literally says "baptism now saves you"!
Why anyone would follow Henry VIII is beyond me. Feel sorry for his headless wives.
We don't. We follow God. The only thing Henry VIII did for the church was declare himself the figurative head of the Church of England. Our doctrines were the result of the English Reformation by Thomas Cranmer and others after that.
We don't. He didn't even have a hand in the English Reformation beyond declaring himself the figurative head of the Church of England.
@@coffeehousedialogue Friend, you can’t rewrite history. He broke away from the Catholic Church because he wanted a divorce and the Pope would not grant it. He started your church and had parliament declare him the supreme leader of your church. I understand it’s a very uncomfortable truth to accept. All your Christian family prior to this would almost certainly have been Catholic. Why not come home?
@@LJT1981Church of England was gonna inevitably break from Rome sooner or later, There were already clergy with John Wycliffe’s and the Lollard’s reforming views centuries before Henry was even born. Even if Henry had stayed in communion with Rome throughout his lifetime, Henry’s successor would have broken ties with Rome anyways. Have you noticed how Northern European nations were the ones who embraced Reformation? Spain,Italy and France the Romance speaking nations were more loyal to Rome since they’re culturally closer. Rome was out of touch with Northern Europeans. England was destined to be Protestant.
@@LJT1981 Who the heck denies his motives for declaring himself head of the Church of England? All I'm saying is, he only declared royal supremacy. He did not form our doctrines.