Old West Myth Vs. Reality: Towns
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- Old West Myth Vs. Reality: Towns
Future King of Heaven by Zachariah Hickman
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Title: Land of My Fathers
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I am glad that we are still getting western themed movies in this age.
Oh yeah. That actually hasn't ever quit. It's just the budget. We have seen hundreds of low budget or independant films in the past 30 years that went straight to video.
That's because Westerns are cool 😎
There are signs that we're on the verge of a Western renaissance.
Me to
@@ArizonaGhostriders I watched Bone Tomahawk a couple of years ago . I'd consider it a horror movie set in a Old West theme .
Howdy Santee! Such a great topic! An interesting point was that in the opening narration of Tombstone, they implied the amount of prosperity there by "... the latest Paris fashions are sold from the backs of wagons." It also was quite fortuitous that the California gold rush had petered out and that Ed Schieffelin made a fortune there. When you add in the preserved cargo of the Steamship Arabia, the many (reproductions) of mail order catalogs, one can really start piecing together some of the reality of how the old west towns would have really been. (Just don't put Mr. Eastwood in charge of painting the town or it'll wind up red!) Thanks again for another wonderful start of the weekend!
Much appreciated!
Right in the beginning you touched on how hot in was in Arizona in some of these towns, I thought about that when visting Tombstone and it was brutally hot. Like I wonder how the heck they stayed cool, especially when everyone was in long pants. Great editing and solid video brother, see you around. Never occurred to me that Tombstone was kinda new when the shootout happened.
Thanks. Yes, it can get hot down here for sure. Sort of the flip to folks who live up north. In the winter they stay indoors. In the summer, we do.
@@ArizonaGhostriders We do. Now.
Back then, tho, air conditioning was only a fantasy.
So, what did they do? They drank. A lot. And not just water.
THANK YOU!!! So many times I’ve wondered why are all the old west towns in movies in ruins and run down. Ghost towns around that still exist are run down but they’re NOT MAINTAINED as they would have been back in the 1800’s/1900’s. Great work on this channel!!
Thank You!
Thanks for the movie/series list. I have been waiting for the season 2 Bill the kid 🤠
Yup!
Great episode Santee! Wow, that's a long "walk down" between the Paramount lot and Old Tucson!! The crews of Bonanza and the High Chaparral must have been in each others way while filming, that's a small area! Gotta love the paper mache mountain in "Virginia City" Word is that birds had to be chased off of it during filming at times!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I experienced first hand, the issues you discussed today, Santee. The second half of my growing up was spent in & around an old turn of the century mining town which was flourishing again due to a large manufacturing plant that had located there. Next door were a couple of less prosperous remnants that looked like they hadn't changed since the 1890's. They would have been good Hollywood locations for some sort of dystopian, Alien invasion movie :) Amazing how kids & teenagers gravitate to those places to hang out & get up to all sorts of mischief .......
WOW!
Must have been a great experience working on that new film 🍺
Absolutely. I always learn something new.
Santee, What a great subject!👍 I think the town is it's own character in every western movie. I have toyed with the idea of building a partial western town on my place to film YT videos. So far, the furthest I've got is a 1/4 scale saloon that I used effectively in forced perspective shots. When I designed the building I researched the quintessential western saloon (from cinema) and I was surprised how hard it was to come up with such a thing we all picture in our minds. There was so much variation. PS: I agree the argument over authenticity in old west cinema is overblown.
It's something I think is really interesting! Yeah, I want a town in my backyard, too!
Great stuff Santee, thanks for sharing that overhead picture of the Bonanza set, haven't seen that perspective of the studio lot before...seemed bigger on TV !🌵🌵
Thanks for watching!
Santee I personally think he is the best Wild West channel, like uploading a video once a week! its funny! it has good Info and is just interesting to watch
Thank You!
@@ArizonaGhostriders I hope you have a good day :)
Strongly agree. The myth/movies were great to draw us into studying the reality. I appreciate both.
Good!
Great episode Santee! I like it better when Hollywood presents the old west authentically. Have a great weekend!
Thanks! You too!
Saloons were often cast off circus tents bar a plank spread across empty kegs. Bat Masterson told Damon Runyon there was often so much dung on the streets it looked like mud even during a drought.
Originally until they became prosperous and could get a real bar.
Santee, Thank you very much for another great Old West history. Have a beautiful and blessed weekend.
Much appreciated!
Another excellent video, Santee! Old town myths are a good topic. My ancestor wrote what towns were like, generally clean, presentable, and welcoming. White wash was used a lot. Towns needed to grow post Civil War to advertise to new people who wanted to live there or even tourists who wanted to experience what it was like. My ancestor had to answer every question asked of him, with strict manners and respect. Towns were described as having a day life and nightlife, pre-dawn life with the cleaning. Anyways, excellent video, Santee!
Thanks much, Jason!
Hey Santee. How about an episode on my hometown of Ogallala, NE? It was the end of one of three cattle drives from Texas to the Union Pacific Rail Road and was wilder than Dodge city and Abilene put together. Our Boot Hill extended far beyond what the city planners thought. In the mid '70's 16 skeletons were unearthed north of the Hill while a new housing development was being built. (Last bit was to pique your interest). Thanks, Harmagiddo.
WOW!
@@ArizonaGhostriders that was about 50 years ago and i was 5 or 6. Hope my memory ist that far off.
I was asked if I was going to make my Shooting Saloon look like it was 150 years old when I was building it. No, I want it to look brand new, and it was in the 1870s. I do have some old rusty tin on the porch roof, but the price was right! Very cool video Santee!
I think roofs are more forgivable seeing as they take the brunt of the weather.
Thanks, Santee very enjoyable and informative, Something I learned a long time ago is that what you see on the screen, be it film of TV and what happened in reality was rarely the same.
You're welcome.
Entertainment is the highest priority in cinema. Because it pays the bills. Videos like these are why we get to know the reality! Bless you
Thank You!
I was usually so engrossed in what was happening in the movie , I just kind of thought old western towns were old the Hollywood way. But thank you for clearing that up this was a great video thank you so much 🤠
Interesting stuff, eh?
You did see a few old movies where boom towns were depicted somewhat accurately with bars in tents and the main street looking like a freshly plowed field. Sometimes you'd even see people working on building a house or store in the background. But films had a lot tighter budgets and shooting schedules back in the day so we have to allow them certain shortcuts as they tell their story.
Sort of like having wagons filled with "heavy crates" but being hauled by two horses instead of four or six, just because finding teams and drivers trained for that kind of rig would have cost too much time and money to organize.
Correct!
I love the old western towns. Thanks Santee for another great video!
Glad you like them! We are so lucky to have some of them still.
Old Bill's ghost is pretty handy at twirling his shootin' iron. But you should see the film of Sammy Davis (the singer) with two. He made it look easy, but IDK if he could hit the broadside of a barn.
In "Robin Hood and the 7 Hoods" he could!
@@ArizonaGhostriders I haven't seen that movie since my early teens. I have to look it up. Sammy was a master at showmanship gun-play.
Hey, Santee ! Another great vid, I've always wondered about the fact in movies there would quite often be new buildings under construction alongside old run down places but rarely a nice, clean, well kept area which there surely would be? Or is it a case of the "Action " only happens on the rough side of town? Greetings from sunny WALES!🤠
Movies do sometimes get it right in that department. Seems moreso nowadays.
Another great start to my Saturday Santee, thanks.
Be safe out there, and take it easy man.
Thanks, you too!
Great video Santee,
You raised some points I had never given much thought to.
JT
Glad you enjoyed it
Great news Santee lots of westerns coming in 2023! Yaahoooo 🤠
Yes
@@ArizonaGhostriders the more the better!!🤠
Excellent video, as usual. I was greatly encouraged by that list atvthe end of the video of upcoming western projects!
Me too!
I guess because there are tropes that have been ingrained in our culture about how the town or setting should look.
A dusty street.
A desert setting
Sun dried and cracked paint
Rough looking people.
But the true to life situation is more complex and nuanced. A boomtown might start off as a patch of tents, then evolve into some rough buildings made from rough lumber and scraps. Then if the money comes in or the town burns down a few times bricks and heavy iron doors.
Hell, i would like to see a 'western' set in the Pacific North West in the 1800s or up in Alaska in Skagway or Dyea. A nice change of scenery.
Yes, that would be a different paint scheme and different building materials, likely.
"This one-horse town ain't big enough for the two of us.... Which is why I ride a camel. Bought it from the U.S. Cavalry as surplus." 🐪😁
LOL!
Separating Hollywood from history is going to be hard be hard, but I love the informative nature of your vids. Always good to learn the myths from reality.
Much appreciated
I'm looking forward to these westerns coming out my friend. Great video.
Can't wait!
This was so interesting, attention grabbing, and informative from beginning to end, Santee, AS ALWAYS... I had no idea there were that many Western - themed movies and/or shows due to come out! 🎉👏🤠☀️👏
I am amazed at the number of western movies due for release myself. Either I don't pay enough attention enough or I've been living under a rock. I was thinking there might be 1 or 2, possibly 3 within... 5 or 10 years? Hopefully some of these show promise. I know I've mentioned it before, but since the success of the True Grit remake, The number of western films has gone up. Odds are though most were to ride the coat tails of the remake of True Grit and the quality of those... vary.
@@_Shootist_ I totally agree. I think that many of us were unaware...🤠🌞
Thanks!
You videos are always so awesome to me. I love seeing them because I get to learn stuff I have never heard of. HAHAHA. HAve a great weekend Santee. 👍👍👍
Glad you like them!
While watching a Family Feud compilation, one of the survey question was "what's your fantasy job if you lived in the old West" and it made me wonder if the "Wild West" as portrayed in the media (filled with gabling saloons full of violent drunken cowboys ready for a duel at any moment, among other clichés) was anything like the actual West in the 1800s. It prompted me to do a "myth of the wild west" Google search, and it's how I found this video.
Glad you found it. Thanks for watching!
By the way, saloons were filled with cowboys, gamblers, soldiers, con men and the alcohol flowed. Just like today, violence brought on by too much testosterone and booze was very evident. There are dozens of newspaper clippings that show gun and knife violence in and around saloons in the Old West. So, those clichés are based on factual instances.
Tom Sawyer having to whitewash the fence was a reality that nobody seems to recall. Such things would have occurred on other structures as well. Even today, putting some paint on is preferable to replacing the wood. Wood was at a premium and much harder to transport than paint.
Great point
Interesting topic! That brings up the question- what did town people do with trash? I had always thought they didn’t have much and either repurposed it or just burned it, but you mentioned a town dump. Could you do a video on trash disposal in old west towns?
Thanks for all your hard work and great content!
"Town Dumps in the Old West", good suggestion for something to dig into. 😁
@@JeffDeWitt ---The archeologists find a lot of relics in the old "Ky-bawl"------the outhouses.
@@elultimo102 Yep... wonder how those Sears catalog pages hold up after being... used and left for a century? (probably not well!)
I did an episode recently on "cleaning the streets"
I am jealous of your job Santee. it looks so much fun
Thank You!
I always love the dinosaur hanging around, he just wants to be a cowboy
He does
Thanks again Santee & Co.
Our pleasure!
I knew since I was little that Hollywood doesn't often get the Old West quite right. For instance, the old TV show, "Wyatt Earp" showed Earp clean-shaven and with a modern, short hair cut. In fact, back in the 1950's-1960's, all the "good guys" were clean-shaven and with modern short hair cuts. I've been noticing lots of scenery were reused from TV show to TV show and from movie to movie. Monument Valley was re-used in different scenes in the 1930's John Wayne film, Stagecoach, no matter how far the characters were travelling.
Yeah, I get it. Although, short haircuts were common then.
Thanks for the clarification. I've always thought the same thing. I think the run down look seemed out of place for the period. Now adays, it would be right. It's cool. I love the illusion. As the band Styx sings, "Welcome to the Grand Illusion!" Playing in a band, I can tell you that it is an illusion. Ha. We all live for it for sure. Thanks Santee. I love these episodes.
Very welcome, ya gunslinging musician, ya.
Thanks for your ideas on the towns and their appearances.
You are so welcome!
GREAT JOB SANTEE ! YOU ALWAYS FIND SOMETHING FUN ! SO HAVE FUN GUY
Thank You!
Thank you for another great video..I am saving for a vacation in Tucson..cant wait to visit Tucson movie studios...thanks again!
Our pleasure! Say hi when you come.
Thank you again Santee , for Keeping The Old West Alive and entertaining the Heck out of me !
You are more than welcome, Olin! Thanks for watching!
Being from Oklahoma and with ties to ponca city it was cool to see it have a mention. Oklahoma has a very rich western history. If familiar with the area you can still see parts of the 101 ranch. Go a little further north and east you can get into the area where tom mix was a bar tender. Go south around Claremore you get will Rogers. Keep going south and you get gene autry. So much to see and do
I have to get out there again.
So true ruffian Santee,again great video. I like authenticity best we can for movies. There are actual pics out there just for props poor towns or well established towns like you showed.
Well said!
@@ArizonaGhostriders thanks Santee, much appreciated.
Wow! Great episode! Thank you. 😊
You're welcome.
Great Episode, I always thought that unless it was a tent city, that the towns were well maintained. It is just human nature to take pride in your home or business.
I once helped a friend restore a Victorian Painted Lady, sanding carefully we found several colors were used including purple in the original paint.
I didn't see why houses out West would not be done similar, They might be less fancy in color scheme, due to the cost of ordering the paint but they would have taken the same pride, in the their buildings.
Yes, pride in your establishment or home was definitely a thing.
@@ArizonaGhostriders Yes, and thank, you for your reply
Ooooh I’ve been wanting something like this!!!
Good
Good morning and thanks for the extra Bill screen time. Stay cool and have a great weekend.
You bet
Back in the 1800's, cowboys hung lanterns from their saddles at night.
It's the first example of Saddle Light Navigation.
Funny!
I enjoy seeing old Tucson in your videos now that you work there
More to come!
I love your video santee
Thank You!
Awesome content Santee! You guys do great work in keeping the old west alive today, absolutely love it!!!
Thank You!
@ArizonaGhostriders you're very welcome Santee!!
@@ArizonaGhostriders But movies will influence Documentary Films!
Loved it!
Thank You!
I certainly will enjoy more westerns this year and next 😂
Cool! Great to hear
I just wish that people would stop coming up to me asking if I have seen Yellowstone.
I have nothing against the show, but ever since it came out, people either ask if I seen it or they call me John Dutton.
It's kinda funny but kinda annoying at the same time.
At least people are not saying" Save a Horse Ride a Cowboy" anymore 😅
Similarly, I am pretty sick of people saying "I'm your huckleberry" to me when I'm in wardrobe.
Thanks for the information, Santee. Can you do an episode about Rio Lobo? I believe it was filmed at Old Tucson. One of my favorite movies. Got me interested in CW.
Sure thing! Yes, it was filmed there.
Very awesome!
Thank you! Cheers!
"Cowboy Ninja Viking "? Oh boy.
Can happen!
Have you ever watched the channel below the plains. The man Tom Askjem digs up very old privy pits that would have been at properties 100 plus years ago. He finds tons of old medicine bottles and whisky and beer bottles from 1870s to 1910. Just interesting and of course these privys were behind the buildings for obvious reasons. Love all your videos been subscribed for a long time. Cheers from Surprise Arizona 🍻🌵😎👍
No, but I'll check it out.
@@ArizonaGhostriders cool, I think you'll find it interesting.
This is the most happy older youtuber i have seen to DATE
Sorry, I'm not free to date, I'm married.😉
Great video! I subscribed. :)
Awesome, thank you!
Nice hat compadre!
Thank You!
thank you sir. i feel the same way. i was a boot maker for many years. when ppl wanted "old" west for cowboy shooting i had to " sell" authentic .... But i understand... k
Yep!
Good one! 😎
Thank you! Cheers!
That was great.
Thank You!
Such a Great Show !!!!!
🤠
I've noticed that the towns in many of the European westerns look far newer than the onis in American movies
Like which ones?
The Old West was new. I liked Gene Hackman's town in The Unforgiven.
That is Mescal Movie Set.
Nice!
Thanks!
Love the content of this episode. I ask folks don't you replace something worn out or broken in your home? So did they back then. I also run into this alot when folks ask me why my reproduction materials look new like dip pens, paper, inkwells, etc., when I am writing.
And you say, "Well, the mercantile was all out of stained paper and faded ink. So I had to buy new."
@@ArizonaGhostriders 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
In Hollywood, looks usually come before everything else. Little wonder there are numerous anachronisms in almost all "historical" movies. Which I think is rather a shame. Stories that have survived from the Old West era would be perfectly fascinating and riveting without a bunch of inaccurate set dressing or changes to characters or events.
Yep, but entertainment is their top priority, as it should be for Hollywood.
I notice this now that u metion it about the towns on movies
Yes
Four fifty one? Are ya tryin' to tell us something, Santee?
I mean, those hay bales are a bit of a fire hazard.
451? Sorry, I don't understand
@@ArizonaGhostriders
Fahrenheit 451, by Ray Bradbury.
@@ArizonaGhostriders
Sorry, it's also the runtime of the video.
Thank u
Welcome
Good insight I often wonder about facts or fiction 🤔
Good
Very cool! I figured the haybales were just put out for the horses that were tied up.
They actually didnt have haybales until much later. Crazy
@@ArizonaGhostriders ah, good to know.
Someday, I would like to visit the Old West town in the states
Please do.
I have noticed these things in some movies but heck what could I possibly do about it but let it go and enjoy the movie. I hope to see a few of them there western talkies you speak of pretty darn soon Santee.
Cool!
I am doing my Cowgboy Happy Dance.
Nice
Do you ever see how in many classic westerns cowboys are really good at fistfights/streetfights you figure there wouldn't be much martial arts in the old west but i see lots of blocking,dodging and kicking and punching and even knife and gun disarms
Yeah, ducking and dodging was practiced. Some other modern moves are for show.
@@ArizonaGhostriders yeah some techniches look similar to karate judo and boxing and I've seen Indian fighting styles in the fess Parker movies and also in shalako and I've even seen fighting moves kinda unique to Westerns and there even done in silent films before any Americans knew of much martial arts atol
At 3:06 can we get an explanation on the creepy dolls buddy has for sale on the middle left of the picture...great job!
Just dolls for creepier children.
Hey Santee, how does one become an extra on one of those western movie shot down in Tucson? Keep up the great work.
Gotta find some casting notices on FB for arizona films
That was groovy in a far out happening kind of way.
Shaggy thanks you!
AGR videos are an automatic like.
Thank You!
You've never seen the innercity meet the hood meet the suburbs. It so often changes across a single street. Literally.
Uhhh....I lived in Brooklyn which is all that. So, yes I have.
It would probably help if you guys would turn the A/C on more often. Gets to hot and burns the crappy paint they had.
HA! If they only had A/C in the Old West.
You should do a video on how correct gunsmoke is
OK!
What was so sad was that Old Tuscon was burned in a fire
Only a part of it. Most every famous town in the west had a fire at some point.
@@ArizonaGhostriders the Irony being, I was literally there with my then wife and her parents on vacation, then when we came home, my ex mother-inlaw sent us a copy of the Arizona republic clip describing the fire.
I hope there's new westerns with a 50s and 60s feel to em
Maybe
@@ArizonaGhostriders yeah I also love 80s and 90s westerns but almost every western film carried that style to em since
Love this channel! How did ppl feed their horses in the 1800s? No hay or grain fields in AZ and not much grass.
You have to remember that the cattle drives were from Texas to Kansas, not Arizona.
We have grasslands here which have a lot of grass for the cattle empires. Also a lot of abundant plant growth all over the state in the 19th century. Gramma and Mesquite grasses were common.
Well, Cattle were driven from ranches to bigger towns so they could be shipped out, so there were drives in Arizona. in 1890 Walter Vail drove his cattle from Arizona to California and proved it was cheaper than to do it by rail.
It is that Hollywood paradox of presenting an old west setting in a rustic manner to convey the perceived difference compared to a current time; don't want a gun looking 150yrs old in a 150yr old setting. Virginia City had to have some wear, but couldn't look like a worn out border town.
Exactly!
I was wondering if it was common to have actual houses built in a town you never see any in western movies they're always on the outskirts and people are usually living in the hotels.
Yep. You see them in movies frequently. Support Your Local Sheriff, Tombstone, Appaloosa (just to name a few).
Funny how everything Western has to look old. It reminds me of the "aged" finish that's available on some repro Single-Actions. A gunfighter picking up a brand-new Colt SAA in 1879 would've had one that looked basically identical to one you can buy today... not one all covered in patina.
I like the patina, but you're right. A gun that is less than 15 years old shouldn't look 80 years old!
Thanks for this - it's always been a bone of contention with me.
Our pleasure!
I have come to realize that people who ask me about historical West stuff , only because I am from the S.W. Desert, that they prefer a combination of truth and myth. I am actually from Apache Junction and I cannot tell anyone that there is no Lost Dutchman Gold Mine , they just refuse to believe it. So being a for real Prospector, people want to hear the around the campfire stories. Embellishments with horrific untrue details. How bad is it finding Gold?. I only say there is no Lost mine because there really is one(closer to 100 lost mines).
So Yes, there really is a Lost Dutchman Gold Mine. Hope to see you all next season, bring your 4 wheel drive, that's called a Burro. And remember Water is worth more than Gold there.
Opulent wealth was expressed in the old towns. Chandeliers and things of rare value were imported. Contrary to popular belief Prospectors really like food and we tend to eat gourmet. Pit roasted honey pineapple glazed ham for sandwiches. With Cactus Cooler that runs about $18.00 a glass and is drank for it's health benefits. It makes you resistant.
I Love My Desert!.
Everyone else can just stay in town.
HA! Yes, sometimes people don't want the real truth.