Old West Myth vs. Reality: Bullet Wounds
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Old West Myth vs. Reality: Gunshot Wounds
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Wound ballistics always fascinates me. A friend made a comment one time that as a lad he and his brother were watching a 1950's Western. His dad and uncles who were WWII combat vets sat down to watch, but began howling when the hero got shot in the shoulder and kept on going. According to them that was one of the most incapacitating wounds you could have, affecting balance and mobility, and risking an artery, much as you showed.
Very brutal!
Not to mention nerve damage. The shoulder is a complex joint.
There was an episode of _Spencer: For Hire_ where he got shot in the shoulder with a .223, and I remember the focus of that episode being how dangerous and debilitating the injury was, and how long and difficult the recovery process was.
Never have been shot in the shoulder, but I've shot a small handful of deer that managed to hit a shoulder blade. The blade breaks like a dinner plate and the entire leg just folds under the weight.
Same would go for people id assume. rather than crumpling under weight you just lose use of an arm, and as you regaled, loss of balance because your arm can't swing predictably.
@@Thoroughly_Wet Sounds like a good assumption to me.
When a peace officer years ago I was in a shooting with a robbery suspect. No cover, and we shot it out at 60ft. His second shot hit me in the sam brown belt, fragmenting upon entering me. It was a soft lead Remington 158gr round nose bullet. The suspect took two centered 357Mag 125 JHP in the chest. He was dead when he hit the ground.
I was so pumped full of adrenaline I had to be reminded by my Sgt. I was hit.
The bullet's main body was removed in surgery, however, a few years later 5 fragments had remained causing a second surgery. The pancreas was damaged leaving it at 50% function. Today, I have diabetes as the result, and digestive issues as well. I was told that damage took 10 years off the backside of my life.
And that ridding a horse the next day is Hollywood BS. I was 28 at the time and in my prime. Was down for three weeks, and did desk duty for a month before I was released by the doctor for full service on the street.
Being gutshot is no laughing matter. There's a 5" scar about 1" below and beginning 2" right of the navel from the second surgery. They gutted me like an elk.
Well, that's my experiences with personal gunshot wounds. Hope none of y'all ever have to go through this sotra thing.
Thank you for sharing, and sorry you went through it. BUT WHAT A STORY TO TELL!
Thanks for your service .
Well, it was odd that I did almost three tours in Vietnam, and never injured. Come home and got shot by an American. But, I was a third generation peace officer. It was a way of life. The people who lived and worked on my beat were my people. If someone wanted to harm them, I'd do my best to stop 'em.
I had abdominal surgery and had to take 6 weeks off. I have a couple of scars, but at least I don't have any lasting health issues because of it. I can't imagine getting shot.
Sorry that happen to you and thank you for your service. God bless you for all you did for us.
Leg shots are another one that seems to be considered safe by Hollywood, even though the leg is chock full of things that you just don't want to have a bullet in. I've never been shot, but I've been stabbed in the inner thigh near the groin. The doctor and surgeon both kept telling me how lucky I was to have survived because the blade was only an inch or so away from some pretty vital stuff on either side of it. Anyways, thanks for another great video!!
Thanks, Daniel! Stabbed!! Ugh!
@@ArizonaGhostriders I wouldn't recommend it, and I don't know if I'm more thankful that the blade missed an artery or that it didn't nick the family jewels!
@@danielthompson6207 Yeah, either way....you did ok!
I love you videos.
The femoral artery runs along the inside of the thigh, near enough to the surface that you can even get a pulse reading from it. Nick THAT, and the subject is dead in less than thirty seconds
It's 4 am where I live, forget sleep, I'd watch Arizona Ghostriders all day.
Wow
Cool!!
Back then they were also beginning to develop better pain treatment for the victim. During the Civil War, most analgesics were just laudnum which is opium tincture with alcohol. But in the 1870's, morphine was more widely used. This was a godsend for people with horrific injuries.
Yup. Good ol' poppy plant.
I do not think this is correct. Morphine was used a lot during the Civil War.
@@MomentsInTrading
Morphine was used sparingly during the Civil War. Mostly reserved for very serious injuries and also used for officers injured on the battlefield. I used the 1870's because that's when the drug was more wildly available to the public. During the Civil War, Morphine was a new cutting edge medication and not all Civil War doctors carried it in their medical kit.
Chloroform was used a lot in the civil war, battle of Gettysburg podcast did a whole episode on civil war medicine
Well in case of a gunshot i can't talk about.
But i had a trimalleolar ankle frakture weber C, the frakture was very painful in itself, but after the surgery and the spinal anaestasia wearing off the pain started to get really nasty. I begged for some pain relief, but they treated me only with ibuprofen which helped nothing at all. And from ibu i got a bad stomach ache too...
Two years later i had an hysterektomie by laparoscopie, but the pain wasn't so bad like i thought.
And after about a day i had to walk around. After two weeks at home i could work again.
Still i'm glad that i live today with painkillers, vaccinations an antibiotics.
I wonder what they did back then with the "special needs" of their patients. And what about decubitus?
There are a lot of unrealistic things in movies, healing faster than mosquito bites from bullet shots is one of them.
LOL!
Great vid partner , love the Gunsmoke clips! My fave tv show. Been a Western fan all my life and the appeal of the old West if anything has strengthened over the years . Never been to America and now I'm in the twilight of my years I probably never will , but I carry the dusty plain in my heart. Riding the endless miles of prairie on an old paint with a six shooter on my hip , the unbroken horizon shimmering in the heat seems like the pinnacle of human endeavour. Really , we should have stopped there , it's all been rubbish since!
Thanks for commenting.
Visit if you can.
Happy Trails to you, Sir. Perhaps we will meet at the last round up!🤠
Lets get this channel to 100k in 2023! Its well deserved for and your hard work Santee!
Yes please!
Having been the recipient of projectiles on more than one occasion, I can't fathom the danger of infection prior to modern antibiotics and disinfectant in that era.
Ugh!! Sorry you went through that!
Absolutely. None of that stuff is fun. It all hurts. If it’s bad enough, it can change your life permanently. Even the minor instances can mess with your head - they did mine - and almost all of that stuff leaves scars or keloids. I have some of *those* as well. (Looks at left hand.)
And I always thought get the victim drunk and bite on a bullet thing. Great job Santee. Just brings the point home small injuries could be catastrophic.
Yup!
"Doc, I'm soberin' up, shoot me again!"
I don't know if biting the bullet was a thing in the 1800s, but I know it happened during the Revolutionary War. I visited Fort Ticonderoga, and saw an actual bullet used for that purpose. It looked like a piece of chewing gum. Brutal.
Damn man how are you great on timing I was just looking at your playlist for videos and you upload a new video and especially about action and violence im gonna enjoy this video myth vs reality is my favourite topic
Thank You!
Myth vs. Reality: Old "Rex" lived a little longer, than most people were aware of! And that is why the buffalo were almost wipped out! Yummo
@@chrissewell1608 old Rex has eaten all the buffalos but the pathetic human beings takes credit for it and they were also wiped out
There's a wall in St Mary's on the west side of Tucson decorated with historical photos. One is from the late 1800's of the hospital surgeon who also specialized in abdominal gunshot wounds, too (per the photo description).
I'll check on it. Might have been Goodfellow. He treated a peer in Tucson who was shot. Unfortunately, he didn't get here on time....
@@ArizonaGhostriders Maybe. Can't recall the name.
I hear there's this old myth that a Colt 45 revolver can go off inexplicably, but in reality, the trigger has to be pulled. Oops, somebody named Alec is trying to find my location....
Right? I wish Mr. Baldwin had just kept his mouth shut and not blamed the firearm. Oh well...in the past now.
A grim subject made amusing by your insight. I read an account of an army surgeon on the frontier, regarding arrow wounds: he noted that the sinew and ligement used to fasten the stone arrowhead to the shaft began to soften when imbedded in a victim & usually separated head from shaft when any force was applied to the shaft. Many that were so wounded carried the arrowhead for life.
Dang, sure didn't know that! Thanks.
In the miniseries "Centennial", Robert Conrad's character, Pasquinel, was wounded with an Indian arrow. He carried the arrowhead in his back for years before a doctor could remove it. (The character, not the actor, LOL)
@@johnmullholand2044 I imagine that was not that unusual.
I've read that the natives had two kinds of arrows: one for hunting which were reusable, the tip was fastened with plant material.
And the ones for war: tips with barbs , fasted so that they stuck into the wound and became disattached from the shaft. Besides they were often poisoned with rotten flesh or snake poison.
Another great episode! Dr. Goodfellow is regarded by many as a founding father of modern trauma surgery. Thousands, if not million, of lives have been saved over the years because of his work.
He also wrote a paper about silk being a possible material to stop bullets.
@@ArizonaGhostriders interesting. I'll have to check that out. I know the Mongols wore silk shirts so that arrows would be easier to remove.
Vic Morrow (Sgt. Saunders) was wounded in almost every episode of the great TV show “COMBAT!” back in the 60’s. I think he had about 250 unpleasant hearts! 🪖
Trajedy on set ended his life too
Good Saturday Morning Santee. Thank you again for another look at the old west. Pew, pew
Morning!
Best idea is to avoid being a target.
I lost track of the number of times Festus got shot clean through the shoulder on Gunsmoke. Doc was a genius indeed. Maybe a bit supernatural... Best of Days to all the Ghostriders.
Thank You!
Festus was as tough as the mule he rode an dad gummit and twice as stubborn ta boot. Ken Curtis was a tough act to follow. He and Doc made the show.
@@CaliforniaFly Sure enough. That show was a chunk of my childhood. I felt like every character was a friend of mine, minus the bad guys of course. No doubt it influenced my life.
Ah, just mere flesh wounds. 😰
Kind of like the dozen or so times Richard Sharpe got shot with a frickin' musket ball and not only lived but never took more than half a day to heal lol. Though maybe he was just too distracted by all his sword wounds to notice.
I have personally seen people get shot and keep fighting as if nothing at all happened. People can be remarkably hard to kill in the moment, where adrenaline is strong enough to keep someone on their feet and fighting even after their heart stops beating.
Yeah, I've been watching police videos where the shot baddies just keep running.
I would love to see a dramatic Western series based around Dr Goodfellow. Gila monsters and all.
Yes, that would be amazing.
Recent ballistic testing on simulated human torso shows that those old slugs and round balls expanded and did so really nasty things to those old dudes .
Yes!
Doc Adams took more lead out of Matt Dillon than the average car battery holds.Lol
HAHAHAHA!!! Yes!
Loved the old westerns on tv . Always thought the heros recovered mighty fast from gun shots. Really enjoy your videos they are so well put together and love the sense of humour. Keep Safe ❤Keep Well ❤
Thank You!
Well they had to. There was still 45 minutes left in the script to get things done so they didn't have time to stop and bleed. Besides there's nothing that says they didn't die after rolling the closing credits.
@@robertkarp2070 only the next installment when they reappeared LOL
I’ve often wondered why Hollywood chose the shoulder area. It’s a visual thing for the masses. Thank you Santee for another awesome video. I hope your recovery is speedy.
Very welcome
And the shoot 'em in the leg nonsense. If a person were to be hit in the femoral artery, they would bleed out in seconds.
You know, I read that the only safe place to be shot is in the butt. Kid you not!
I just cringe when I see so many "speedy GSW recoveries", too. Or the shots in the leg...or shooting guns out of people's hands (on purpose, of course)...or the notion that a gut shot renders the person instantly dead...or idea that good guys had to always fire away needlessly at fleeing outlaws on horseback while all shots sailed harmlessly into space....or that you had to take your shoulder off the stock of a lever action rifle every time to lever up the next round...or the idea that serious-hero good guys could make perfect heart shots on all would-be killers point-shooting from the hip...(not even Thell Reed could do that, and he was a sixgun expert)...or that Rory Calhoun's Bill Longley on The Texan could hip shoot a moving villain 65+ yards away.....or that so many .45 slugs couldn't penetrate the spine or chest cavity and needed somebody to dig them out but they could penetrate walls bad guys hid behind....or the Gunsmoke episode where Matt tells Chester that a .44 slug bores straight through while a .45 flattens when it hits...I could go on and on.
@@TwoWeekCowboy Yeah. I cringe when I hear calibers than never existed. "How many .45-40s do you have left?"
Saturday morning adventures. Arbuckles and Ghostriders. Pew Pew Pew
Thank You!
My great grandfather was a country doctor. They typically only had 1-2 years of education and yet they were pretty knowledgeable about the maladies country folks often suffered with. Shootings happened but not nearly as often as portrayed in the movie and most died before they ever saw a saw bones
Sad.
Is it me or is Old dirty Dan sheddin some of his Tallow? I swear he used to be as big as a buffalo, he's looking swifter than a gant antelope everyday.
Well, you sure like wild game, don'tchya?
It's a miracle someone could be shot maltiple times and servive,case in point,Hank vauhan at his autopsy had 13 bullet wounds.he finely died when his horse fell on him.
It's hard to believe in some cases.
Quick get that bloody shirt off and soak it in cold water!! I can sew it up when it's dry good as new. First thought that went through my mind. Wait ..gunshot wound??
LOL!
I watched Gunsmoke as a six year old kid. Marshall Dillon got shot in the arm or leg every single week. He always said" it's just a flesh wound, Doc".
Man had some strong flesh.
What an intriguing subject! Just some random events I've found interesting:
-A man accidentally shot himself with a shot gun in 19th century, opening a wound to stomach. Physician closed wound in manner that allowed him to re-open and study function of stomach. He published his observations and it changed medical concepts of digestion.
- A 'sniff' test, was given to abdominal wounds to determine if intestine was punctured. A punctured intestine would often result in peritonitis (infection of abdomen) commonly resulting in fever and lingering painful death. I actually saw one cowboy movie referencing this.
-Almost all gunshot wounds don't always result in instant death as movies often portray, and wounded adversary extremely dangerous. While recipient of bullet could live a few seconds to hours, even days. Only a direct hit to brain stem would cause instantaneous death. Recall a few years ago when two year old strayed into gorilla cage and police sharp shooter had to make an instantaneous death shot to keep gorilla from possibly crushing child.
-"Shot in leg wounds" ok since non-fatal, not only a cowboy movie myth but also movies and TV in general. A puncture of leg, especially at the femoral artery and bullet recipient can literally bleed to death within minutes.
-'Shoot to wound" obviously another movie myth.
-Not a gunshot thing per se, but in 19th Century as now, laws quite clear, pointing a weapon at someone was 'assault with a deadly weapon', displaying a weapon to intimidate was considered 'brandishing', killing someone in a 'consentual' fight (or 'duel') was considered 'manslaughter'. I've read numerous accounts in old newspapers of that era of arrests and convictions for such activity that taken far more seriously then than now in places like New York City, St. Louis, Los Angeles etc. with their more pro-criminal politics. Many cowboy movies as well as contemporary shows, perpetuate pointing guns or brandishing with a person finding out in real life that cops will arrest and courts will convict. There are plenty of attorneys on YT sites that can cover this topic.
Anyway, as always, enjoyed video.
Came across a book describing individual recounts of mid to late 19th Century. Lots of things described including accounts of auctions, which seemed to be quite the civic social event with food, speakers etc for the numeous people that gathered. Old West auctions of 19th Century might be a topic. (BTW: If you want more info on book I can provide it, I think you'd find it's recollections of daily life of era interesting.)
Yep, there's some pretty interesting accounts out there.
Known the first point since high school (AKA a looooong time ago). I can't recall the names but it was actually recounted in our biology textbook. Both surgeon's and victim's names were given. What your brain can present to you after 50 odd years.
@@phillipbampton911 That's pretty neat. I find myself looking feverishly for those names half the time.
Back in the Middle Ages, if a man was still alive after a belly wound, he would be given a strong onion soup to drink. If they could smell onions near his belly, they knew the stomach was perforated, and the "patient" didn't stand a chance
In the case of the Garfield assassination, death was largely the result of their not being able to locate the bullet. Alexander Graham Bell, of telephone fame, had in fact invented an early electronic metal detector that was used and, in all likelihood, would have worked had Garfield's bed not been fitted with one of the first metal box springs. This badly interfered with Bell's device but, not being aware of the box spring, Bell failed to understand why the device wasn't working properly. He discovered the problem a few days later but Garfield died before he could make another attempt.
The autopsy discovered revealed pneumonia in both lungs and a body that was filled with pus due to uncontrolled sepsis.
Santee, once again, thanks for the FANtastic visuals and videos to correlate with that gruesome subject. YIKES, I guess that we shouldn't complain about a doctor's visit today. 👏🙏🏼👏😳
HAAHAHH! I should say not.
When I was a kid...60's...my older brother and his friends were fooling with someone's dad's 'Derringer'. Well, it went off in my brother's hand and took a big piece of meat (no bone) off one of his fingers. He didn't tell anyone for a few days...we'll the finger became infected. He didn't lose any function I'm aware of, but the doctor left it open to heal from the inside out. He had to soak it several times daily until it healed. Way I figure it, between the bullet ripping his finger up and the flash burn from the powder it must've been painful. As I recall, it quieted him down for a while. Oh, my dad had a way of looking at you so you know just how much of a fool you were. All us kids got that look at one time or another. I'm sure my brother got one for this stunt. I guess there's a reason dad kept his guns at my uncles when we were young.
Wow. Good thing he didn't lose it.
There are two scenarios where we don’t suture wounds: when the wound is close to 48 hours old and when there is obvious (or suspected) infection present. Also, re bullet wounds - we don’t always remove projectiles. Only remove them when there is concern about injury to major tissues, organs or vessels in the area. The body typically surrounds the foreign body with granulation tissue which walls it off from surrounding healthy structures. Once granulated, not uncommon for the body to push the foreign body to the surface skin - as mentioned by several people in their comments.
Another excellent video, Santee! My ancestor recounted post civil soldiers walking around with bullet inside them, and bullets coming out once the body is healed sometime later. What gets me in the movies is how chatty the people are when the bullet is removed. He wrote while doing odd chores in town to earn some coins, sulphur ether was used frequently in surgery, as most men carry guns and the doctor didn't want to get shot. But since bullet wounds weren't common, most of the time, teeth pulling, loaded cart running over a man's foot amputation, ingrown toe nails were the most common. But what really got the doctor nose was the body order of his patients. Another matter was the doctor wasn't chatty either.
Anyways, excellent video Santee.
Thanks for sharing, Jason!
Hey Santee, always enjoy your videos. I didn’t hear you mention this and read several comments and didn’t see anyone talk about the idea that a lot of infection came from those large, comparatively slow moving hunks of lead pulling filth into the would. Since bathing and clean clothes were not a regular thing hunks of dirt and filthy clothing will get pushed into the would and disbursed making it virtually impossible to clean out. Personally I suffered a puncture wound on my foot during a hunting trip several years ago and even with modern medical treatment and antibiotics I almost lost my leg and still suffer from having lost a lot of muscle tissue which died from the infection, also suffered nerve damage. My permanent limp is now part of my cowboy action shooting persona. See you on down the trail pard!
Yeah, I didn't mention bits of clothing and other stuff entering the wound. By and large, just sticking a finger in the wound would do as much damage if it wasn't clean.
So big a part of the perceived dangers of being shot was the risk of infection, that during the US-Spain war, where the Spanish army rifles used brass-jacketed ammo (which was then a new technology, virtually unknown in the Americas), there was the actual belief by the US army brass that the brass' purpose was for the verdigris to cause infections.
(brass pun unintended but welcome)
Fun fact: a 36 caliber ball = 1 piece of 000 buckshot.
WOW
The one that always gets me is how the bullet MUST always be extracted in the movies. In reality surgeons always leave the bullet in the body unless there's a pressing reason to attempt an extraction, because extracting the bullet carries risks of its own. The body simply forms scar tissue around most intact bullets and it wont really be a problem. There are many records of people living for decades with bullets lodged inside them.
Well, the issue is the stuff (like clothing) that was pushed into the wound by the bullet. Get it out or it will infect.
Firearms and gunshots in general are misrepresented on TV and movies, even more so now.
Yup
One thing that bothered me worse than gun wounds healing too quickly was when a movie set in 1868 has 1873 rifles and revolvers in it.
Yeah, that is a fun one, too, eh?
A decade ago while on duty I was shot at point blank range with a 9mm. The bullet hit my vest stopping the bullet , but I pissed blood for the better part of a month since it impacted by my spleen. Hurt like Hell too.
Sheesh!! Amazing how Hollywood thinks you just walk away with a bullet proof vest
I have done a lot of hunting and counter to the movies & TV where people get shot and shrug it off and keep going, let me explain really simply you do NOT want to get shot with any caliber, even a .22LR can ruin your day. Yes different calibers have different affects and all that, but don’t go off thinking it will be a cake walk for you because you think you are a bad ass and too tough to die.
Yep, it just ain't the same as on the big screen!
Great video, Santee, as always! And I like the Van Dyke, it looks great on you!
I always got a kick out of a gunshot victim saying "It's only a flesh wound." I can't imagine it would be that easy to ignore!
HAHAH!
The hero being shot can be part of the plot and sometimes a subplot, but Hollywood & TV producers knew that audiences would accept the painful but non-lethal gunshot wound for the main character while supporting characters died in an Old West story where almost everyone's carrying guns of some sort. It's that action and gunplay the audiences saw that made it a hit. The formula was even used & found in Star Trek, a displaced western, when you saw the guy in the red tunic, you knew he was gonna die while Bones would use his special gadgets to save the main characters.
The red shirt non recurring characters
Yup!
@@ArizonaGhostriders
Only the thing is with Star Trek (1) is the main characters that wore red that never got bumped off. Scotty, Uhuru, the female yoeman in the first season...........
1) Pitched to the networks as Wagon Train in space.
@@mpetersen6 Two things were responsible for all those dead Starfleet security men. One was Kirk's insistence on the "stun" setting, which often just tickled various non-human creatures, and the other was that all those guys were dumber than a sack of dilithium crystals.
@@stevenscott2136
No. Dumber than a sack without any dilithium crystals. The reason dilithium crystals are so rare is because Elon Musk used 'em up.
Good episode I’ll watch you tonight on the 11 bang bang channel
Thank You! See you then.
If anyone has ever had rotator cuff surgery, you know how much your arm is incapacitated and that's after the doc fixed it.
Great point
I’m in line for such surgery. Thanks for that uplifting future I have 😂😂😂😂
Pretty sure a Dentist named Holiday was the best known doc in Tombstone
Ahhh, but by then he was only a doctor of triggernometry.
He trained to be a dentist and not a good one
Nice video. Now do one on why don't the hats of cowboys ever fall off? They can fall from a horse, go off a 20 foot cliff, get in a big fight, hat still on. How? Why?
Industrial staples.🤣
@@ArizonaGhostriders Superglue
@@jack002tuber Yeah!
Matt Dillon was shot and recovered 56 times.
HA! About that.
Hey Santee! This channels helps me relax more than any other! Something about the humor and the history just is the best. It's the only channel i find myself rewatching videos on multiple times!
Hope you and eveyone who helps makes these videos are having an amazing day!
Awesome, thank you!
Am I the only one that noticed President Garfield was wearing an “I like Ike “ button??
Seems so. I snuck it in.
Lol don't forget that good ole little talked about doctor holliday of 1880s tombstone
By 1881 he was more a doctor of triggernometry and poker!
I thought once the bullet was out, everything was good. You mean all the other tissues didn't just go back to normal? Very informative video Santee!
That's what some belive, even now. Hero gets hit in arm by 7.62 x 51 NATO, wraps handkerchief round wound and drives on! 🤣
Don't forget pouring whiskey in the wound and ripping off the hem of your gal's dress for a sling!
Otro interesante informe como siempre Mr.Santee. Agradecido desde ya por el video..... Y le deseamos una pronta recuperación de su "accidente ".🏥🔫👍😀
Muchas gracias!
Finally someone educates non gun people on real life. I told my kids and girlfriends kids old Slim got hit in the shoulder and was up and around the next day with his arm in a sling.
Told them Slim would be lucky if he didn't bleed out or have his arm amputated if he survived at all.
To make my point took a milk jug of water and hit it with a 12ga slug, yup-blowing the head off wasn't an exaggeration.
Yes!
Are you talking about Slim Sherman on Laramie...or just some "Slim" in the Old West? Either way, you are right. The notion that shots to wound are like "remote control punches" is pure BS. Sadly, people have believed in shooting to wound ("I'll just wing him") and it got them in huge trouble. Shooting to stop a person who intends deadly harm is the only legal and moral way.
@@TwoWeekCowboy "I don't like the idea of bein' shot in the hand." - Blackie from Rustler's Rhapsody
@@TwoWeekCowboy just a generic slim.
But I know the show well, been playing as regular series on GRIT TV locally.
All the westerns and movies.
Clint Eastwood 3 coffins scene never gets old, or the good piece of hicory.
Not only was this interesting and informative, you are completely delightful. So glad to have stumbled across your channel!
Thank You!
Remarkable how you take such a dangerous and painful subject such as gunshot wounds and Monty Python it
LOL!
I was a surgical technician for 45 years. I worked in hospitals across the country as a traveler. I've worked on many gunshot wounds and infections. Gunshots are not pretty and the blood loss keeps you weak for months. Infections smell hits you in the face like a punch. Anesthesiologists keep smelly stuff to put on your mast so you don't puke. And this is in a clean sterile environment where the air in the room is recycled every 10 minuets. At least those guys were out side.😃
Wow, I appreciate you helped so many folks, but you're making an excellent point about the recovery time as well.
I read a book 'Gangrene and Glory' about Civil War medicine. The doctor that wrote it said visiting a Civil War hospital would be like returning home from a vacation after a couple of weeks and your freezer quit working. As you walked toward the hospital an unpleasant smell would become stronger and stronger-the literal smell of rotting meat.
However, the war revolutionized American medicine with several doctors getting quite close to germ theory, establishing triage and the study of nerve injuries.
@@tomservo5347 So good can come out of bad.
Great info!
Glad you think so!
It was my understanding that infections resulting from gunshot wounds and other injuries were much more likely to kill a person than the original wound back in the day. Sterilization of utensils used, antiseptics and of course antibiotics were either totally unavailable or largely unknown.
Nope, it was studied and practiced since the 1860s. Just not by every doctor. Some, like Garfield's, didn't buy into the idea of antiseptics.
Wa-a-ay back in the 70s, I remember the great folk singer Derroll Adams telling our folk club in England he thought Guiteau must have been trying to blow President Garfield's brains out.
HA!
One of my gripes with a lot of westerns is the use of non period correct firearms. 🤦♂️
That is a thing.
@@ArizonaGhostriders the other night I was watching one (don’t remember the name) that was based during the civil war, but had cowboys robbing banks and their pistols were 1873’s and levers were 94’s. 🤦♂️🤦♂️
You should consider a show on old west birth control and the treatment of sexually transmitted diseases. (I've heard that the treatment for men was to have a red hot wire placed up inside...well...where it's best not to have a red hot wire placed inside! )
Yes, I have considered it. However, a lot of elementary kids watch these shows....not sure if that would be too much.
Enjoyed that. Movies seem to have shaped so many misperceptions. Good one 👍 🤠
Thank You!
Another story I heard about Garfield's assassination was that the new X-Ray machine was new and close by and would have helped the doctors locate the bullet in him instead of probing with dirty fingers and intraments. Remember, back then, doctors washed their hands after surgery not before.
They did use it, but to no effect. Doctors like Lister and those who understood antiseptics and cleanliness DID wash their hands and sterilize stuff back then.
My understanding is the doc was a old civil war comrad when Garfield was a officer and Garfield trusted him except the doc dident think much of the study of germs and bacteria. Still the same practice from the 1860s
Burning is about stopping bleeding not infection.
Correct. Good thing I said it right.
I was just laughing about the good ole shoulder wound to a friend who isn’t familiar with westerns. Why they think smashing the shoulder blade was nothing bad, I have no idea, but I guess they figured it’s pretty much the only place on the torso with no vital organs.
Yeah!!!
The iron dont have to be glowing red, just the right kind of hot is enough !
And then it was done with fine small devices atleast arround the year 1500 !
@@killerkraut9179 Evidence that in Ancient Eygpt , surgical tools were 'Blessed' in fire before use.
NOW YOU TELL ME!
@@51WCDodge I think they dont mean with blessing red glowing hot!
@@ArizonaGhostriders My half knowledge is mostly based on a on a video about Hans von Gersdorff a wound -physician who improved or lerned his skills in the burgundian-wars 1474-1477 and his Book Feldbuch der Wundarzney !
The Video Das Feldbuch der Wundartzney - Das Können eines Wundarztes um 1500 channel Geschichtsfenster !
With a Medicine doctor who made a doctoral thesis about the Book from Hans of Gersdorff!
Wow so informative and interesting. Thank you for another great video Santee!
You're welcome, JJ.
I love your show alot its very fun to see the truth of. The west
Thank You!
5 stars Santee ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
LATER PARD 🍺🍻🥃👊🤠
🦅🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🦅
Thank You!
I've always amazed at how old western movies and TV westerns trivialized bullet wounds. As you note, a bullet in the shoulder/arm/leg/hand, was not lethal. A frequently heard comment was "the bullet passed clean through and missed the bone". You'll be OK in a day or two. The gunshot victim places his hand over the wound, often with a cloth/bandage, and soon recovers. I think Marshal Dillon was shot at least 100 times, none of which proved fatal. Hands, legs, stomach, shoulders, back , et al. He had remarkable powers of recuperation - due in no small part to Doc Adams' amazing surgical skills. I guess, even in the mythical world of movie/TV westerns, a bullet through the brain was considered fatal. Looks at the multiple bullet wounds Clint Eastwood suffered in "Hang 'Em High" - literally shot to pieces - and survived with no side effects.
I forgot about hang 'em high!
When the people of Cebu, Philippines, rebelled against America (1899-1902), soldiers carried 9 MM pistols and the bullets would go thru the enemy, and the soldier killed. They went back to the .45 and that turned the tide.
Good info
Lead poisoning if the bullet was left in?
Certainly possible.
I never shot a human being, but several years ago,I killed a big N.M. mule deer with a Ruger Blackhawk revolver in 45colt caliber; the deer died instantly & didn't get up & walk away. This was a legal hunt & the deer was 25 to 30 yards away; the .45colt bullet a 250grain flat nose lead slug, makes a big hole going in & a bigger hole going out! I guess if a human were shot just about anywhere with a .45 or 44-40 the blood loss would be substantial & they would bleed out before an ambulance could reach them. If a bone or vital organ were hit buy a large caliber bullet,I think in most cases even in our modern world they wouldn't survive,I also served as a Volunteer firefighter/ E.M.T for a number of years, I only saw a few gunshot wounds and they were smaller caliber & not in a vital area & the patient survived.
Pretty amazing!
Great video Santee
Thanks for the visit
Medic! 🏥 *sees Dan operating on Santee* Um... another medic! 😋
LOL!
Met an ancient man who got his arm cut off by a timber saw blade. He said the doctor took him into his house for a few months. Before tetanus shots. Hit or miss
He was lucky
@@ArizonaGhostriders he made national news when his brother shot him in the stomach for eating the last homegrown tomato. He survived that also
@@dc7370 Yikes
2:11 - wild west had 1 doctr in evry town. That physician could b the dentist, the barber n veterinarian. It was the case in some rural areas.
Biggr towns had more. Like in 1881 Tombstone had 11 doctors. A few had med diplomas.
3:09 - Dr. Goodfellow (3:15) - cleanliness n antiseptics in the operating rm.
3:19 - if u recovered from gettin shot in the guts it was a lengthy ordeal n you'd likely suffer from it 4 rest of life.
3:37 - frontier doctors r usually represented as old throwbacks 2 the Civil War where amputation was commonly done 4 bullet wounds.
4:30 - Dr. Joseph Lister:
Fighting infection with carbolic acid since the 1860s. (Steralizin equipment n usin antiseptics was done at time but the U.S. President may not hav got it).
🤠
Usually I complain that information videos are too long and I lose interest. However, yours are way too short!!!! I'm totally immersed in your stories and poof! They are over. How about maybe 10 or 12 minutes? Still short, but not over I the blink of an eye. Great channel.
Thank you for the compliment. Sadly, I work a full time job as well as making videos, so this is about all the time I have.
Watch Duelist1954 on pocket revolvers. A lot of people while in town did carry smaller pocket revolvers with 32 and 38 black powder loads being the more common, but ranged from .22 to 41 calibers. President McKinley died of an abdominal bullet wound from IIRC a .32 caliber revolver. McKinley was shot twice at close range on Sept. 6, 1901. One bullet bounced harmless off his sternum and did not enter his body 1a. The other entered the left upper quadrant of his abdomen, piercing the front and back walls of the stomach 1b
From the medical report: William McKinley: Post-Shooting Medical Course But the link itself will not post..
I recall a story from well known pro-union leader from an incident that occurred I guess about 1900 in a mining strike, probably in colorado. Big Bill Haywood and a friend or two encountered a couple of strike breakers that had been deputized. Haywood's buddies in the initial part the encounter were incapacitated on the ground. He pushed the fellow with the brass knuckles back and drew from a pocket a small 38 and put three rounds into him. Two of bullets remained in the forearm and one made it to the fellow's torso. He ended up badly injured and in the hospital and when Haywood heard that, he remarked: Sorry I badly hurt the boy, next time I will use a stronger shooting gun. My guess it was in .38 colt and not .38 long colt.
Yes, a lot of folks did have smaller arms. Goodfellow states that the larger calibers (which I mentioned) are more serious wounds to recover from.
And another thing...as in the remake of The 7 Samurai, a thrown knife always kills instantly. Gunmen with Winchesters always have to work the action, so they either expel a perfectly good round or the rifle had no round in the breech. Don't get me going on baddies who menace by cocking a pistol or pumping a shell on a pump action shotgun. The gun was useless until that action, so who was threatened?
Yeah, they do that a lot in the ones made after 1980
Historians believe lot of people died of infection and disease in the Civil War than the actually gunshot wound. Who was the "yellow belly" who shot you Santee? Not very gentleman, to shot a nice unarmed man like you, Mr. Santee.
Probably a TH-cam troll I made look stupid.
Working as security in hospitals in the UK I saw plenty of wounds in the triage area that didn't make sense to what was claimed caused them including a man in his early twenties claimed to have pulled out a screwdriver from his lower leg (I saw a broadhead wound)
I'm sure people skew the truth to not draw attention to the situation. I might too!
@@ArizonaGhostriders yep I got peppered with bird shot as a wild 14yr old, distance and tin pants saved me explaining too much, but my back was covered in welts, my grandpa said "stay out of Mr Toft orchard, ya know he's mean as a dry drunk"
@@davidgraemesmith1980 HAHAH! Well, glad you weren't hurt too bad.
@@ArizonaGhostriders if it got my front instead of my back it could have been very different, doubt cheap sunglasses in 94 would offer much protection against birdshot at 50 yards
@@davidgraemesmith1980 Yikes
If you could go back in time to the late 1800s to the early 1900s if you got shot and was lucky enough to survive long enough to get to a Dr. Pray he was one of the stereotypical western Dr.s that pours whiskey on everything.
Hmmm....
Lol, as a western writer, I have to try hard to not be influenced by Hollywood.... good thing I write fiction; that's my excuse if I get it wrong!
LOL!
I've read that when Garfield was ailing in the White House, people would drop off all kinds of elixirs and say to the guards, "Please give this to the president." They amassed a large collection of quack medicines and such. They meant well, I guess.
Yes, I'm sure they did.
Funny western movies . Strap on a double holster around your waist. Add two 45 colt revolvers. And 50 rounds of ammo. Then run around or ride a horse. Preposterous.
I made a gunbelt and was able to fit forty 45 rounds in it. Yeah, it's heavy.
Why do doctors always put the extracted bullet into an empty tin tray or cup? A bit like Romans giving the thumbs down to gladiators; it was invented in Hollywood.
Not really. I read that it's standard practice for forensics these days. Then, the idea was to make sure all the fragments were out of the wound. A bowl/cup is a good place to hold fragments.
That was a topic i had to research for a fanfiction i write.
It got me to believe that one better isn't on the receiving end of a gun no matter where it hits you!
Please make some about arrow wounds too!
Will do.
Alas poor James Garfield, gets shot and has to endure 6 months of a slow, painful death because of 19th century medical practices
Because of the doctors who were stubborn and wouldn’t accept knowledge of antiseptics
i always thought that amputation out west was dependent upon hitting bone or not: if it hit bone then there’s shrapnel everywhere and no way to repair it, it’s just way too jagged. it’s not a clean break, so only way to save the life is to amputate.
if it hits flesh it can be removed but you’re hurt for weeks if not months- maybe the rest if your life if it hit a ligament or tendon that needs surgery to repair
Those bullets (especially the big calibers) flattened out and did an incredible amount of tissue damage. They were so worried about infection that removing the whole limb was quicker and easier.
If a doctor was a skilled surgeon, you had a better chance (if no bone was broken) of saving that limb.
Well,who would have thought it. Americans, Americans! Using irony. 👍👍😜
When I watch Spaghetti Westerns I say, "Italians. Italians." So, I guess it's the same.
Here's one for you how many frontier people survived being scalped
I have seen about 5-8 accounts. Could be more. Scalping wasn't by itself a mortal wound. Typically you would have been left for dead or dead when the act took place. growing back the scalp was not going to happen, the best you could hope for was scar tissue, a lifetime of sensitivity, and a helluva story to tell.
I remember reading somewhere that an 1800s gunshot to the trunk usually was fatal due to wound or infection, and that a gunshot to an extremity likely would have that extremity amputated. "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" shows a ton of Civil War soldiers without arms, without legs, to get this point across, great anti-war film. Even the guy shot by Tuco in the beginning lost his arm from being shot.
If the bullet hit a bone and shattered it they likely amputated.
Never mind the damage caused by a Hollywood western movie bullet, as long as they could get it out in time, the protagonist was sure to live. But he was surely a goner if they couldn’t get it out soon enough. 😂
LOL
Look up Emmett Dalton and Cole Younger.
A .22 ENTERED MY RIGHT SHOULDER JUST BELOW THE COLLAR BONE, HIT MY SHOULDER JOINT AND EXITED MY RIGHT ARM! IT TOOK ALMOST A YEAR TO GET FULL USE BACK!
Ouch!!!
I believe that if you were shot it is imperative that all the organic materiel from your clothing be removed, cotton from your shirt may be pushed into the wound by the bullet and that will, if not removed, cause infection.
Yes.
Great video. Getting shot with a. 44 or .45 caliber at close range wasn't good 😕. A soft lead bullet at around 900fps would do you in.
Likely.
But Matt told Festus that a .44 would bore through but a .45 would flatten when it hit...right?