My Bad Habit | Low Hands On The Wheel
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 เม.ย. 2024
- Many of my viewers have pointed out over the years about occasionally my hands being low on the wheel. This doesn't happen all the time, but it is a bad habit.
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You haven't covered the really important stuff. How to cope with steering when you have a cup of coffee or ham sandwich in one hand and a mobile phone in the other.
Knees are a wonderful tool! 😀😀😀
Knees are good for that or if you can, have a passenger in the front seat to do the steering for you 👍
Knees are really useful for rolling a spliff while driving too. 😂
I'm a bit old fashioned so I just spread my fold out A-Z map across the wheel and half the dashboard.
@@smilerbob All this talk of knees, I suddenly remember the late Patrick MacNee ("MacKnee") who played Steed from The Avengers.
9:00 That "Go on then, buddy" to the police, like a dad telling his son to go say hi to Mickey Mouse at Disney Land 😂
Really happy knowing that in my two years of driving that I’m doing almost the same thing as yourself but I tend to only drop my left hand to the bottom of the steering wheel. As you might remember I failed my first test in a manual,passed my second test in a auto, but I went back into a driving instructor car just ten weeks ago but again failed my manual test a couple of weeks ago. I was just 5-10 minutes away from passing with just one minor so all the things I was taught have stuck with me. I’ve rebooked a new test but because of the backlog I couldn’t get one sooner than August. At the age of 56 I’m sure some will think why bother if I can drive an Auto, It’s basically wanting to know that I can drive either. I’ve learned so much from your videos and I’ve been a subscriber for 3-4 years.
I agree entirely with the dynamic approch to hand positioning but all i would say to folk is to expect the unexpected, if you have a front blow out at speed or something hits your wheel or even on a corner if you step out, if your hands are not in an ideal position, you are going to have a much harder time of things.
Like with indicating only when necessary based on what I’m observing. My hand position is based on the level of risk observed.
I was pleased to see that less than 2 minutes into the video, I heard that wonderful "Ashley-ism" of "There's no way in the world".
This is just to check my replies are passing into the top category and not hidden. At least they are going into the newest category and not getting blocked completely.
@@thomaselliot2257 You've made it into "Top Gear" so to speak.
@@ibs5080👍 I wonder if you saw my reply to you about Emma Peel?
It's happened again when I specify the replier😠 please check the newest category
I gripped the steering wheel during an accident 22 years ago. There was no airbag fitted and luckily I just broke the steering wheel off of its mounting. As we were both travelling at 50mph and it was a head-on smash, I was lucky to get away with only major bruising across my chest from the seat belt. The person in the other car smashed their jaw onto the steering wheel, so they probably didn't have a airbag either. What I wanted to say is, yes let go of the wheel, but sometimes self preservation kicks in and the tendency to lock yourself up is very common. Just holding on for dear life.
A former traffic police officer having attended many road traffic incidents, told me that people involved in crashes where the airbags went off, often had black eyes, broken noses and missing teeth, where the force of the bag expanding literally throws your hands into your face and you essentially punch yourself in the face. He said this was because their hands were high on the wheel. Having your hands low avoids this problem if a crash happens and the bag goes off.
I agree, I watched a TV show 20 years ago, a man was a live crash test dummy, he said never hold the wheel at 10 to 2 as you are liable to break your wrist as it will hit the door frame, he said he learnt it the hard way two broken wrists, his advice is just let go if there is any chance of the bag going off (which is hard to do admittedly) don't know if you can still find the program 🧐
I would say that you, or the victims, have misinterpreted what happened or they even have contributed to the injury. Let me explain. The air bag isn't behind the fists pushing them toward your face, it's expanding to push the forearms and elbows _outward_ so if anything the fists are going to hit the side window or the person next to you. The only way your fists would hit yourself in the face is if you are actively trying to pull them inward, then the rearward component of the force from the air bag might push the fists into the face. Or, the fist may have been the person next to them as I suggested earlier. I think the injuries are just the effect of an explosive charge going off 2 feet in front of their faces and limbs flailing around from crash forces, a situation well outside most people's experience so their brain makes up an explanation that does fit within their experience. If you watch slow motion footage of airbag tests, both with dummies and human volunteers you _don't_ see the hands getting pushed toward the face at all, whatever the hand position.
yep , thats also why i said to ashley he shouldnt cross his arms over the centre of steering wheel like he did at begining of the video. and i said to others cos if that airbag goes off your arm is gonna hit you in the face at 100mph .his excuse of taking hands off the wheel if your gonna be in an accident is a crap excuse cos how many people know untill theyve actually been hit by a car they didnt even see
@@chrisevans19692 This comes up again and again and it never ceases to surprise me how much time people will spend debating where to hold the steering to avoid injury when an airbag goes off when the time would be much more profitably spent debating _where to hold the steering wheel to avoid being in a collision_ of any sort, airbag deployed or not. I can't help feeling that we've got the order of the cart and the horse wrong here.
@@ianmason. well i keep my hands low as it helps to stay relaxed and not strain my shoulders having them high up when its not necessary .you cross your hands over the wheel on a test and see if you pass cos you wont
I enjoy these “narrated driving” sessions. I’ve been driving for five years now and I still pick up little tips. I like the more in depth versions though, talking about every action little you’re taking and why.
Thanks for sharing. I move my hands around frequently-higher on the wheel when the risk increases and lower on the wheel when risk decreases. I get stiff shoulders, elbows, knuckles and thumbs due to arthritis and this helps them not to get stiff and need to stop too frequently to "unstiffen" on a long journey. Glad you don't consider it dangerous if it's done this way.
Great video, reasuring to know you have a relaxed stance on hand position. My bad habit is definitely wrapping the thumbs, one I'm going to regret it if I have an accident.
Lovely old job, Ashley 👍🏼. The position that works for me is where my left hand is at 10 to 2 but my right is low, somewhere at 4 with my elbow resting on the door armrest. That position works great in town and doing long drives on motorways, as the right hand propped up by the armrest helps to give an outstanding control over my steering.
What you are taught for a motorbike is that is being relaxed is the most important thing, loose grip, loose elbows and dont hover your hand on the brake. You will obviously take slightly longer to control the vehicle but you dont have road vibrations effecting your steering and you will be less fatigued both physically and mentally which more than offsets the other factors. Having said that you do have much better control over a car with hands up top but you dont need that control all the time.
in the states, the recommendation for 10 and 2 has been officially retired. the reasons being that pretty much every car a non experienced driver will be driving has power steering. so the need for the driver yo be able to haul on the steering wheel under stiff resistance or the likelihood of a pothole giving the wheel a jolt is next to none. the new recommendation is that the "home" position for the hands be in the neighborhood of 9 and 3, which means that under normal steering, the odds of having an arm across the wheel in a collision are much reduced. and that is the biggest worry in an airbag activation. it WILL knock your hands away from the wheel, and it WILL hurt, and possibly cause minor injury. but if your arm is across the wheel, then you will hit your arm as you go into the airbag. I really can't condone letting go of the wheel in an impending crash. always drive the car until you can't any more. you may not make it better, but letting go of control always has potential to make it worse.
the bottom line as far as hand position is, if your hand position is uncomfortable, you will not be able to drive as well. so have a hand position that is comfortable, and lets you turn the wheel at least 90-120 degrees without repositioning both your hands. to use ashley's "resting" position as an example - from that position, he can still use either hand to turn the wheel a full 180 degrees.
the other point on steering wheels is do not use any polishing products on the wheel. any polishing products will make the wheel more slippery, and it will take more effort to grip the wheel, which will cause more fatigue. unless you're in a championship car show, there is no downside to having your wheel merely clean and not polished.
Great video And it all comes back to your mantra that driving is a role you need to be actively doing and thinking whilst doing it.
The 10-2 or 9-3 position is a pre power steering vs post power steering argument, before power assist 10-2 gave you better mechanical advantage, with the advent of power steering hand position changed to where the stalks are so depends what kind of car you have.
I think hands position also pays a part in vehicle stability in windy and particularly in gusty weather.
When the vehicle is hit from the side by a gust, inertia means that the vehicle can shift sideways in relation to your body, which can in turn result in a small amount of steering input, involuntarily.
If your hands are above the quarter to 3 position, this input will actually be counter to the affect of the gust, ie it will act to help stabilise the vehicle. When hands are low, it can exacerbate the affect of the gust by causing a small steering input in the same direction the gust is pushing the vehicle. This is particularly noticeable I find in high sided vehicles like box vans, and small light cars.
happened to me recently during one of the exceptionally windy storms … so glad my habit is still 10-2.
I must admit that that is one thing that really grated with me about your driving. So much is top notch that I didn't feel right to pick you up on that!! I suppose for me it goes back to being taught to drive in late 1970s pre power steering, pre air bags when you needed to have full control on the steering wheel when it was like driving a tank. And most steering wheels have recesses to allow your hand to settle nicely on the wheel at the 10 to 2 position. The most important thing is to have relaxed hands for normal driving but being ready to grip firmer if situation requires it.
The wheel on my car makes the quarter to three position most comfortable and that's where my hands normally are. The wheel also being lower than traditional also helps me not want to lower them. It's a benefit of the Peugeot iCockpit design I feel. As your hands and arms are lower due to the smaller and lower wheel, you are less inclined to migrate further down, especially on long drives.
This. People either complain about not seeing the dials when the top of the steering wheel is where it is on another car (but at that point, the bottom of the steering wheel is too high), or the steering wheel is too low or close to their knees (at which point it's where the bottom of another car's steering wheel would be, or you just need to lower your seat a tad). It doesn't suit everybody and I can imagine really tall people having issues, but I can't imagine it being as bad as the motoring press made out in 2012 for the 208's launch. Certainly works for me, but I'm 5ft 7, so...
When I saw the title of the video I was getting ready to comment how it's not a bad habit so long as you've not got your hands low when risk is increased. Glad to see me and Ashley have the same stance on this
It is a bad habit. In low risk situations Ashley is increasing the risk over what it could be. He is sacrificing safety in low risk situations, increasing the time he is relaxed so as to increase concentration and awareness in higher risk situations. I thought Ashley made this very clear. There "no way in the" ideal "world" he'd do this.😂
I do this when driving Heavies, Scania is nice to drive as you have the ability to make the steering wheel much more upright. On my car it tends to be higher up .
Another great video Ash. I wondered whether you might consider doing one on manuals vs automatic cars and the different approaches in driving required?
9 and 3 seem more practical to me because there's an equal distance between the top and bottom of the wheel for each hand.
I've asked a few people about this in the past, and most of them said they don't think about where they put their hands, and a few admitted they rarely even have both hands on the wheel.
Im not sure ill be thinking about taking my hands off the wheel just before an accident, its just not in the nature of human survival.
But i just make sure a habit of not crossing hands over at any point which is where the path of an airbag will be so rule is never to pass your hands past 12:00 and 6 centre line which also helps to reduce fatigue as your body dynamics remain symmetrical.
yeah i think that advice sucks
If taking hands off wheel just before a crash works for F1 drivers then it works for me
*There's ALWAYS a lesson to be learned whilst watch an Ashley video!!!*
I would be very surprised that in an accident whether any driver would do anything other than use the steering wheel to initially attempt to change course and then ultimately sub-consciously use the steering wheel as a brace, not only from the forward impact but a sideways one as well. I really doubt that anyone would have the time or the rational thought to take their hands off the wheel. I wonder how many accidents Ashley has been in to suggest it? When I am a passenger and particularly when I navigate competitively I miss the brace that the steering wheel gives me and I am sure that in an accident I would rather have my hands on a steering wheel rather than flailing about in the car where they are likely to get injured.
Wrapping thumbs around the spokes of the steering wheel very much depends on the vehicle that you are driving, you may need that extra mechanical grip with some steering systems or sometimes its unwise to do so because in some vehicles hitting a pothole hard enough could easily break your thumbs! Modern cars need power steering because of their suspension set up that would also be a root cause of that thumb breaking action.
There was a report carried out by Thatcham, the car safety institute regarding hand control on steering wheels and they concluded that there was no degrading of control if the hands were at 10:10, 9:15 or 4:40. Most people will intuitively position their hands on the wheel where they are confident they have control and that can be in response to conditions.
Hi Ashley, one aspect of this topic that you do not talk about is the range of adjustments available on most modern cars that allows for some choice of driving position, seat height, pedal reach and steering wheel distance and angle. Some years ago a Vauxhall car manual had a substantial entry on how to get safe and comfortable. This started with establishing a suitable seat height, with it as high as possible with minimum distance between top of head and roof lining, this gives the best forward near visibility and best sun shading, this followed by setting the seat distance at a position where the left leg is almost straight when clutch pedal fully depressed but straight in the seat, then adjust the steering wheel height and distance to for a comfortable match, at this point consideration of preferred hand position comes into play, if like you one tends toward a low grip set the wheel lower to compensate and the opposite if appropriate.
Once all that is satisfactory all the mirrors can be adjusted to suit and whereafter if other drivers alter the steering wheel and seat positions they can be easily re-set by looking in the mirrors!.
There will then be some significant period over which a sensible level of comfort is established which might require minor adjustments.
Cheers, Richard.
everyone is different, what suits one may not suit another. It's about awareness to danger and how you deal with that danger. If someone takes their hand off the wheel to scratch their head is that going to cause me to jump out of the car, no, the same as someone dropping their hands to a lower position, no. People need to understand that driving should be easy, thus driving without all that built up tension will give you a better driving style and awareness
A subject I've often wondered about. I tend to do what you do, which is twenty-to-four when driving in low-input/risk, but moving up when the input/risk increases. I do far more driving on dull, rural A roads (very rarely managing to get up to 60 due to being in constant streams of slower-moving traffic) and dual-carriageways than down lanes or in town. I don't get so close to the car in front that it makes additional demands on me, 2-4 seconds being my favoured position, depending on the situation. The steering wheel spokes on my car seem to be designed for that lower placement, and even the small thumb rests are barely quarter-to-three and in no way ten-to-two. The car has a fixed-hub steering wheel, so all the controls are exactly where I left them all the time - it's a Citroën C5 X7 Exclusive, if anyone is bothered. I never cross hands, but then I don't get to drive on many fun, twisties anymore, so I default to the chauffeur quality ride for which the car was designed.
I have the 25 past 7 approach which is a bad habit
@@supersuede91 Ah, the good old hands on thighs position. Steering with full hands or just thumbs?
Worse on both counts: steering with FINGERS and sometimes the hour hand finds its way to the back of the passenger headrest@@PedroConejo1939
The steering wheel has various positions. I often , for example will place my right hand at the bottom of the steering wheel and push up to make a left turn. It then means my left is free for the gears as I come out of the junction and start to accelerate away. When just cruising I tend to have the right hand higher up and left lower down ready to come up to standard driving position.
When you are at slow speeds and maneuvering around local streets and town centres your hands will be moving around the steering wheel quite rightly, however once you are moving at 40mph plus I was taught that the best position to hold the steering wheel is around the 10 to 2 position as it allows you to be able to handle issues such as a sudden gust of wind, tyre blow out, standing water etc more effectively than if you have one hand on the wheel or both hands to the top or bottom of the wheel, you can also move your hands more effectively in response to road changes from this position. One thing that really winds me up though is drivers who keep turning their heads to talk to passengers.
9 and 3 gives you more range of motion. the 10 and 2 was to increase your leverage in the days before power steering, when a bump could cause you to lose control of the wheel.
Having been a licensed driver for over 30 years, my default steering wheel grip position is at 10 and 2. Depending upon traffic conditions, I vary my grip and steer hand over hand or sliding almost unconsciously.
For physical and mental stress management, I will take one hand off the wheel to extend my arm, move my wrist, do finger extensions, etc.
Re your comments about having hands on wheel when having a crash. About 12 years ago I had a crash where the airbags deployed and I suffered some nasty burns from the airbags going off.
I was alongside and passing a longish vehicle on a dual carriageway, he started indicating left after I passed his rear end, a car waiting to turn saw this signal and decided to cross the carriageway. From when I first saw him to impact was well under 1 sec. I may have got my foot on the brake I probably tried to apply some steering. But it was so fast there was absolutely nothing I could do to avoid it at that time.
52 years ago, my driving instructor told me to hold the steering wheel in the most comfortable position for me to control my car, dependent on where I was driving at the time. Not at 9 to 3 or 10 to 2 but where I felt in control. Coupled with the one hand push and pull technique, no power steering for me in those days, I too developed a technique similar to your. (Maybe I did it slightly earlier 😉). 52 years on, I still drive with my hands caressing the steering wheel in what is for me my the optimum position.
That is my natural style, I always adjust with regard to possible risk and do it automatically without having to think about it much. Glad to hear it is Ashley approved 🙂
Somewhat related and Ashley eluded to this: On UK right hand drive cars there's also the additional consideration of coordinating steering and gear changing with applying signals. Reason being, for several decades now, Uk cars have had their indicator stalk on the left. One particular situation I can think of where this whole setup can be a bit of a challenge is when negotiating a roundabout and wanting to change gear at more than less the same time as needing to apply a left exit signal "one exit prior". Ashley made a brief mention of this. Another situation is when accelerating along a motorway slip road and needing to change up a gear at around the same time as applying a right signal. There are at least a few workarounds with these situations (delaying a gear change in favour of proper signalling for example) but it's still less than ideal. Regardless, I do wish that UK right hand drive cars had maintained the indicator stalk on the right.
In a similiar vein, while driving dark back roads, you gotta make sure gear changes and highbeam adjustments don't interfere.
@@deyfuck Yes! I can totally relate to that and for that very reason, I'm generally quite forgiving of oncoming drivers who are a bit late in dipping their high beams.
Fully agree. Most of our vehicles are sourced form Japan where the indicator stalk remains on the right. Problem arises when having to switch to a European sourced car for work ... They should have stuck to their guns.
@@deyfuck Not if you have a Mercedes-Benz of the 1950s 1960s or 1970s with the foot operated dipswitch .
If I understand your argument correctly, you are suggesting that having an indicator stalk on the right would be more beneficial for situations like roundabouts. This is incorrect as your gear changes are not as important as proper steering, evidenced by experience with cars with right-sided indicator stalks (older hyundais, kias etc). Having to change gears with the left hand whilst steering and indicating with the right is absolutely not ideal as trying to reach for the indicator stalk whilst steering will almost certainly result in either one of those actions failing; either the signal is too late or the steering is messy and dangerous. Then, let's sat, if you were to steer with the left hand whilst reaching for the indicator with the right, this defeats the argument as you are no longer changing gear, and vice versa with steering + gear change. Therefore, indicator stalk position seldom matters.
I think the correct way to hold the steering wheel is at 3 and 9, thumbs in the indents on the wheel.
That's what the indents are for!
My bad habit is taking my left hand off the wheel, and driving one-handed.
I use two hands when I think there is more risk. But, of course there can always be unexpected events.
I do have to keep reminding myself to loosen grip on the wheel.
It's a lot like that on motorbikes too.
You barely have to hold on to the handlebars at all.
Once you have given it a push/pull to set it into a corner, the bike corners itself.
So what's the correct position for holding the phone/tablet you're watching the latest Netflix hit or the Eastenders Omnibus edition on? (yes, I've seen someone doing that. On the A4 in West Berks between Reading and Newbury)
Especially on longer drives, one needs to change the position of the hands/arms once in a while.
This isn't an issue because you can adjust your position according to the traffic situation- it's not a static rule: In low traffic or low speed situations, there is no need to hold it as you would in dense traffic or at higher speeds. Essentially *just like you explain* .
One hand on the wheel at 170 km/h? Not a good idea. One hand or both low at 30 km/h or empty road- not a problem.
I recently did a 5 hour drive back from Edinburgh, setting off at 7pm. I had my hands up for the first part of it because it was country roads as I think the M74 was closed at the top. Then once I was on the motorway proper I found that I had to drop my hands switch them out because if not then the feeling would've gone. Because newer cars have tech like lane assist, adaptive cruise control and blind spot sensors and all the other stuff we have a lot of help with driving and so on a long stretch of empty motorway or A road we can afford to drop our shoulders and hands at least. It makes it easier to keep an eye out for the dangers like looking for someone speeding from behind or catching a deer before it jumps out into the road.
One thing I look out for when buying a new car is whether I can rest my elbows when holding the wheel in the 9-3 position. I like feeling a secure grip on the wheel whilst also being able to rest my arms.
I became a one hand on the wheel driver without even noticing a lot of the time. I do tend to bring it back up when theres risk or a situation needing a lot of steering. My steering rack is one and a half turns to full lock so I can get pretty much full lock on with one hand very quickly.
I had this habit as a learner as well, loved it when I drove around corners! My instructor had a hard time knocking it out of me lol.
I’ve been doing virtually the same for a while…thought I was being lazy lol.
I would also add to the list where I keep my hands higher is at speed and/or twisty roads.
A number of other little points come out of this video.
When parking the car….i do this almost entirely one handed now. I can almost spin the steering wheel round. Different “gearing” as well so needs more turning than say a polo or corsa and noticeably more than a last of the run Ford Fiesta. Obviously this means despite weighting up at speed it’s still a bit numb or “Average” (not dreadful) when at higher speeds. In my polo, I could straight line it with 1 finger-I can’t do that in the Honda.
I have always driven with low hands, unless in dense traffic or where there may be a problem, for over 50 years, 20 of them driving heavy goods. Never had an accident or crash, it's about awareness not where your hands are. It's not a "bad habit". A bad habit is not looking where you are going, or where you have been!
I tend to maintain the 9/3 position most of the time, and have my steering wheel just very slightly closer then some people, reducing the length of my arms makes them lighter so I don't tend to get any fatigue even over long periods. I did used to Palm my steering when turning years ago, but knew it was a bad habit, so made an effort to get back to doing things properly.
My hand position is a subconscious thing today, but they do always seem to be where they are needed at the right time.
At the end of this video, excellent over the shoulder checks of blind spots by Ash there as he merged from his slip road. I do that too. Had a friend as a passenger some time ago question why I do those over the shoulder checks when merging or changing lanes. Explained to them about blind spots to which they replied "I just check my mirrors as that's enough surely?". Yikes!
my goal in coming down a slip road is to have already established where everybody is, so the shoulder check is just confirming what I've established on my way down the slip. waiting until the merge point to check for other cars is as poor as not looking ahead of course, the early checking is also a product of having driven a few things with poor visibility to the rear.
@@kenbrown2808 sometimes you cannot see the motorway from the slip road. M6 north at Leyland is an example.
@@chrisl1797yes, there are cases, especially with elevated motorways, that it is not easily visible until you are closer to the merge point, but the point remains that you want to know where traffic is as early as you can so you can adjust.
@@kenbrown2808 indeed.
@@chrisl1797 A112 onto the A13 eastbound is like that, there's a bloody great wall in the way and you can't fully see until you've only got 180m of slip road left.
In the 80’s my instructor taught that on a motorway there is and argument for lowering the hands on the wheel to relieve the stress on the arms,
On a motorway you are doing minimal steering activity and holding the arms up higher is tiring for the arms on a long journey.
In town I am at 9to3 with my thumbs just above the controls on the wheel [my wheel looks very similar to yours]
The fingers can reach all of the controls on the steering column and my thumbs can operate the push buttons on the wheel.
I believe that the reason for the 10to2 position was for when power steering hadn’t been widely introduced yet.
[you needed to pull down with a lot of strength to turn the wheel so having the hands higher gives you better leverage]
In the late 80’s I used to drive small Lorries without power steering, and it was as good as doing a weight training session for the arms in the gym.
I recently got rid of a VW Caravelle where I could drive long distances with a hand position at about quarter to three without fatigue to the arms because of the armrest. I miss those armrests now that I've got a Prius Plus7.
What I don't miss is the repair bills...
Though at least this video makes me feel a little less bad for occasionally dropping my hands to a lower position while driving 😅
I do exactly the same as you, when it's low risk my hands gravitate towards 20 to 4 or thereabouts, and if risk increases they both slide up the wheel. It's no longer a conscious thing and sometimes I'll catch my hands sliding up as I'm evaluating a possible hazard ahead of me.
I wonder how your advice would apply in a automatic car.
I've always had similar habit as per your advice, but different because I've been driving automatics for a long while.
I find myself doing very similar and all at a subconscious level. Lower positions for relaxing and higher positions for readiness.
One thing I am not overly keen on seeing is the two finger gentle grip with the head laying on the shoulder when driving in queuing traffic
The head well to the window side as if looking past you is a less-than subtle way of communicating that your very presence is delaying this person from his (it's a male habit) important task of being a pain in the butt to even more people.
@@PedroConejo1939 I know it is inconsiderate of myself to even contemplate being ahead of anyone that is in such a rush but quite often I do believe that by keeping them "held up" behind me they are then able to catch a few more zzz's before continuing their journey 🙂
Couldn't agree more, great video.
9&3. With thumbs ON the thumb rests, where "fitted", NOT wrapped around the wheels. In an accident, if the wheel spins with thumbs wrapped inside the wheel, you may lose them pretty quickly😢
If people are needing to steer with two hands (not the usual feeding or crossing) then I recommend they get the wheel alignment checked and also the suspension checked as that sounds like something is resisting a normal steering input. It could be something as simple as an under inflated tyre but still indicative of something not quite right 👍
I'd agree with almost everything you're saying *but* my normal position would be like the one you're using ~7:50 except that my thumbs lie along the circumference of the steering wheel rather than over the spokes.
I've even (and in no way recommend doing this; learn from other people's experience here folks) tested "release the steering if you can't steer out of a crash", and it works. 60mph crash with airbag and belt pretensioner, and the biggest injury I got in the crash was a bruise about 1" diameter under the seat belt.
~9:05 Nice Deviation.
I tend to have my right hand at the 3 o'clock position and my left hand just touching the bottom of the wheel with my fingers. I go to the normal positions on bumpy or bendy roads, approaching lights and junctions and any other of the usual hazards we encounter
Bit of a random question but I recently started a new job that has a zebra crossing painted as a rainbow on my way there and I was curious about whether or not it is in fact a legal form of crossing? I searched the highway code and it shows pictures of all approved crossing styles, none of which state or show anything colour related other than black and white so it just got me curious. Also it seems that guide dogs are confused by these rainbow crossings and apparently some councils have banned them?
Does anyone have any info on this?
I'd have thought understanding when to focus and when to relax would be a key indicator of a conscientious and experienced driver who dynamically assessed risk as a matter of habit...
Such as when approaching exits and slip roads. Ash did an excellent video on this a few years ago. It made me think about my assessment of risk a little bit more.
Nice spot and hold back for the cop car.
I had to change/ adapt my steering habits when i started my ADI training and keep both hands on the wheel at all times.
But away from the ADI stuff i still drop one hand down or off the wheel to give the arm a rest on longer journeys.
And when stopped at traffic lights, both hands come of the wheel and rest in my lap.
are you mechanic?
@@efdbjon2114 No I'm training to be a driving instructor.
The only thing which makes sense to me is to as much as possible have two hands at the wheel - anything else it is about maintaining a position where you can quickly react to a situation and apply input as required and that doesn't necessarily come from maintaining a 10 and 2 or any other combination of positions. I generally steer with a dominant, higher, right hand position and a more flexible left hand, often in a lower position (obviously this will swap over a bit in some corners), which I can very quickly adjust to what a situation might require.
Like yourself I’ve found on longer journeys it’s better to have your hands lower down on the wheel as my arms and shoulders are more relaxed at the end of the journey. Again if I come to roundabouts or areas of built up traffic I move them up. Nice to know I’m not alone in this.
I’ve seen recent advice saying it is better to have your hands lower as in the case of the airbags going off it stops a driver getting an injury known as de-gloving where the skin is torn away from the hands, I’m unsure how true this is
Either way as mentioned before I only do this on longer trips
I had a guy come round a blind corner onto my side of the road and hit me head on. He was doig around 60 mph i was doing about 20. Let me just say your hand position is the least of your worries in a bad accident my hand was on the top of the steering wheel as i was turning and the only thing i noticed was the that the airbag felt like a kick to the head my hand was pushed out toward the drivers window but the burn from the airbag on my face was something else entirely. It did however save my life!
I steer with the right hand and use the left to just sort of steady myself.
The 10 and 2 position would be way too exhausting for me.
Mine is more or a 8 and 3 position.
I do that intuitively. As you say, there's nobody who's going to drive a long distance and constantly keep their hands at quarter to three. As soon as I see a situation that will likely require me to steer more than motorway lane-keeping, my hands will return to the quarter-to-three position, like yours. I very rarely cross my hands; that just doesn't feel natural to me - perhaps it happens while reversing a little.
When I learnt to drive, the 10 to 2 or 1/4 to 3 positions were so that you could turn the steering wheel effectively - before power steering. With your hands below horizontal, you didn't have the same purchase to turn the wheel. Worth remembering if you have a power steering failure (e. electrical power failure). We were also taught to keep our thumbs outside the steering wheel - hit a pothole or rock and the kick-back could break your thumb.
The one that always annoys me is the driver with one hand at 12 o'clock and the other on the gear lever. I suspect this is a major contribution to cars cutting corners of right-hand turns, and going wide of left turns....
Some cars, especially American ones, had holes in the steering wheel spokes that were known for removing fingers in accidents. I can't remember which were the worst now, but I'd be looking to Oldsmobile (442?) or some of the Mopars.
Most of my cars were manual steering and it was never a problem : a bigger steering wheel gave plenty of leverage and steering was geared lower too , plus narrower section tyres such as 6.40x13 or 6.70x13 had less resistance to turning , even at lower speeds . Most common cause of power steering failure is failure of the V belt which drives the hydraulic pump , or sometimes leakage of the fluid , which in most cases is just ATF .
my dad taught me to never have my fingers through the spokes and to never let the wheel slip through my hands, as a carryover from the days of HDVs having "armstrong" steering. - when losing control of the wheel could very well result in a broken finger or thumb.
@@PedroConejo1939those were mostly aftermarket steering wheels. most factory wheels had narrow spokes, until horn buttons started growing, and then for a while, the horn button took up most of the spoke. of course, then, for a while, the airbag took up most of the hub, and resulted in some smallish finger holes, but we were 99% power steering by then.
@@kenbrown2808 There were a couple that came direct from the manufacturers with 'drilled' or sometimes narrow (finger-sized slots) in them. I watch a channel called *Rare Classic Cars & Automotive History* and saw them mentioned on there a few times. Just can't remember the particular models, now I'm thinking Ponchos. IIRC, they were late 60s/early 70s cars and the designs were changed after one year. BTW, the channel is awesome; the dude really knows his cars and has a huge collection of beautiful machines.
I didn't chalk this up to a bad habbit, I usually keep my hands low for sweeping A roads & motorways for less sensitive steering input, high for sharper bends on B roads, and middle for a mix between snappy and relaxed steering input.
I drive professionally, delivering new vehicles around the UK, and I tend to do the same. My worst habit is hooking my thumb around the bottom of the steering wheel, by the central boss, when all is quiet. I'm trying to kick the habit though, I've started to get pain in my thumb, wrist and forearm as a result.
Agree with the relaxing when nothing going on, but moving back to position when some hazard starts to take my interest
I believe (and I might be wrong as I've never driven/been in one) that many luxury cars used primarily for chauffeuring have little thumb cutouts at the bottom part of the wheel. The idea is that you rest your hands low in your lap, and make small, gentle movements with the steering wheel. It's precise and way smoother (particularly for the passengers) for gradual turns but you have to move your hands if you want to do sharper turns. So, it's not WRONG as such, but the low hands position is probably best only used if you are doing the majority of your miles on the motorway.
Having had five S-Classes of varying generations from W116 to W140 , and driven Silver Shadows and Spirits , I can't say that I've ever come across this , nor heard of it . All my M-B cars , like most others , just have the small dimples all around the rear surface of the wheels meant to locate your fingers in and stop the wheel slipping through them .
@@derekheeps1244 While that is a nice car, I'm talking more limousine than private car.
I tend to use what I call the nose picker mindset. Essentially looking to see if I'm likely to be noticed picking my nose by anyone driving around or in front of me. If I think I am, hands remain on the wheel to handle any issues that may come up due to their proximity.
When I was doing my HGV class 1 lessons the instructor said just palm it, he said the examiner isn’t interested in how you turn the wheel as long as you’re in control
Steering related query. Do you push then pull? Or pull then push? When steering smaller amounts with stationary hands, are you pushing or pulling?
It should be pull then push
An interesting observation:
At 6:55 both lanes go straight ahead. I would instinctively use the one with the shortest queue.
But I've seen it many times where people queue up in lane 1 while two lanes go straight ahead sometimes leaving lane 2 completely empty even.
I'm normally very happy about an empty lane that takes me right past all other traffic. But what is it with people that they do that...? Not an efficient use of available space.
Because you want to leave the second lane empty so that people who are turning right can use that empty space to get in to lane 3, which is shorter and requires lane 2 to be empty to get in to. If Lane 2 had an equal number of cars as Lane 1 in this video, Lane 3 would've been inaccessible to people behind, which only serves to lengthen the queue for everyone.
Just a case of improving the flow for everyone else, not necessarily yourself.
@@Perseus7567 But it results in one long queue.
And I have actually seen this on junctions with two lanes jus going straight, no turn.
Interestingly here, he is turning right and using the right lane later on anyway.
Hi Ash, using the gears appropriately to the conditions, so holding the gear or block changing is all part of any decent advanced qualification. Of course also never changing gear during higher risk i.e. corners, junctions, islands etc. More people should undertake a proper advanced course. I sat mine with a Police Class 1 Instructor, I gave a complete none stop commentary, achieved Gold standard for many many years. I need practice now though. The Police system of driving is not the only system of driving, but it is worth knowing as part if a comprehensive package. Will you do advanced driving/riding courses for the channel? Perhaps do a bike safe day for us all?
+1 for Ashley doing an Advanced Driving qualification. That would be fascinating and would also encourage other drivers to consider an Advanced Driving qualification and so improve road safety. I know Petrol Ped did an IAM Roadsmart Masters and videoed some of his preparation. Fascinating stuff!
I did my IAM Roadsmart Masters in 2022 and I found Ashley's channel very helpful during preparation, although to be honest the Reg Local videos were more applicable to the IAM Roadsmart curriculum, as he is a former Police Advanced Driving Instructor. I thoroughly enjoyed preparing for my Masters and doing it as well although, to be honest I did feel some anxiety when actually doing the test. But that was understandable and didn't hold me back.
I do think the IAM Roadsmart Masters puts more emphasis on making progress than Ashley prefers, so there are times when that approach differs slighltly from Ashley. But I totally get the more relaxed, laid back but engaged style that Ashley promotes. It is suitable for a wider audience and especially when dealing with learner drivers or those instructing learner drivers.
@@R04drunner1 +1 for the reg local demonstrations. 👍
Very true with impact stresses in an accident. I was unfortunate to have someone hit the rear of my vehicle as I was about to go from 1st to neutral which caused quite a bit of soft tissue damage in my shoulder. Despite having physiotherapy for the injury and being classified as fully recovered, the last could of years I can feel niggles coming back in the shoulder especially in colder weather
It is a difficult thing to let go of the wheel as subconsciously you are no longer in control but something I am aware of since that collision. My arms are “free” when stationary as are my legs until the time comes to be prepared to move again
The niggles in cold weather is just called getting old. 🤣 Get used to it as it's not getting any better. I get it in one shoulder and I've never damaged it at all.
@@ianmason. Oh dear, I am looking forward to the next niggle and ache then 😁
Hope your shoulder gets better now the weather is warming up a little
I usually drive with lower hands on long drive. Sometimes with one of my arms resting. Eyes are still on the road. I never lock my thumbs on the wheel. Thats dangerous. All fingers are loose and relaxed. Its also safer because if i get into an accident, my hands will easily slip off the wheel
I'm just glad its not the hamster hands a lot of people do, both hands at the top of the wheel.
Good advice not wrapping thumbs too, another reason not to do so is that if you're in a crash and the front wheels get hit, you'll break your thumbs same for off roading
I attended advanced driver training about 12 months ago, and as Ashley demonstrates here I fed the wheel, rather than crossing hands.
The instructor told me to get out of the mindset of feeding the wheel, and to allow my hands to cross in order to make the rapid adjustments to steering input required. The instructor also said the hand position was less important than the fact of having both hands on the wheel at all times, (a pro for automatic transmission vehicles), to be ready for any eventuality.
I'd say that observer would benefit from re-reading Roadcraft
I've always thought that feeding the wheel was nonsense and harks back to the day when cars didn't have power steering. I was watching a police programme years ago and to watch this copper frantically feed the wheel when he had an emergency call was almost comical.
I drive professionally, sometimes over 12/13hrs a day. In my honest opinion hand position doesn’t matter as long as you have full control of the vehicle that doesn’t just mean the steering that also means the other auxiliary controls
I sometimes find myself at the quarter to one position, when i start to relax, but change to the ten to two position when I need to.
Sorry but what is the "quarter to one" position?
@@brianfunt2619 12 45
Years ago I went on a Land Rover experience drive and the driver explained why you should never grip the inside of the steering wheel with your thumbs. He said if the wheel was snatched out of your hands by a pothole or in a crash it would break your thumbs. He said the safest way to hold a steering wheel is with your thumbs on the top of the steering wheel facing you and grip with your fingers. I took his message to heart and made it my habit so I don’t need to even think of doing it now. Roll on a number of years and a mom down the school was in a bad traffic accident after dropping her children off, she was seriously hurt. She had broken bones, lacerations, lost her spleen and shattered both her thumbs. You have been warned 🙁
Think about this logically. Do you really want any part of your hands on the wheel when you have a crash that could break your thumbs? You've been given some advice which may help in some situations but may hinder in others. If you keep your hands on the wheel in such an accident, all the impact will be taken through your wrists, elbows and shoulders.
If not in busy situations I have one hand down and one hand at ten to two on the wheel and swap it over every now and then. I even do the same when driving buses.
I find the only time that crossing the hands to steer is beneficial is a slow tight manoeuvre. Out on the road I find myself driving much the way Ashley does otherwise arms get very tired.
Has anyone ever discussed car seat covers, that can be bought in shops and online, as if you put these on seats in a modern car, what happens if the airbags contained in the seats inflate in a crash?
Many moons ago I was told not to 'get the gear on the corner', but I do it all the while and just as you do it. So why would I be told that? Was the person in question perhaps arguing that putting power down with one hand on the wheel (whilst turning) could tug the wheel out of my hands maybe? Who knows. The thing is, if you don't do it, then you generally don't get a natural smooth progressive and decisive drive through (the alternative it to potter about until you get on a straight, then change gear). At the time didn't pluck up courage to this question, but I'd love to know now.
I do exactly what you do Ashley.
I've heard that there is no good hand position for any one scenario. E.g. if you're travelling very slow like parking then one handing it can be good but where you need minor adjustments like on a motorway the lower hand position might be better.
Been driving 3 months but arms still tense up on the wheel till I realise I'm doing it.
I don't remember that happening in instructors car though.
Thank you for the upload Brother! When I did research on best hand position for the steering wheel about 20 years ago: the evidence provided validated faster reaction times due to relaxed shoulders & synergistic muscles. Essentially: reaction response time is retarded by tensed agonist & synergistic muscles & even tensed antagonistic muscles retard reaction times; ergo best to drive in a position that is safe & relaxed & grip in a manner that will not allow the steering wheel to slip ....(Ashley) ...
Conversely: racing car drivers e.g. F1 maintain a the same hand position throughout the race & do NOT FEED the steering wheel instead they tangle their arms & untangle them as needs be!
Peace & Love!!!
Racing steering racks are about 1 turn lock to lock, road cars about two turns. You can get away with keeping your hands in one place in a racing car as the furthest any hand has to move is 1/2 a turn. With modern power steering road cars could be 1 turn lock to lock without requiring you to be a gorilla, but they'd be too 'jumpy' for the average driver.
Your driving style is the same as mine, i started to drive like this shortly after passing my test.
Haven't yet watched... I feel called out because I have recently been developing this exact habit more - time to learn and reevaluate√
Edit: I feel like that's how I do it, but fair enough gonna keep that in mind!
I recently had to do a drive from Derry to Cork along the west coast of Ireland, took 13 hours... my arms were in the correct position all the way down... I do not recommend it. My arms are still tired a week later.
Wild Atlantic Way?
Stunning scenery and some quite challenging roads. Sounds like fun.
Regarding the aspect of you're better off taking your hands off the wheel if you are about to crash. Does the same principle apply for the legs, bearing in mind that it's desirable to scrub off as much speed as possible before the moment of impact by having your foot on the brake pedal.
No one is taking their foot off the pedals, by instinct alone everyone slams on when anticipating a crash. It's like autopilot kicks in.
It depends on the vehicle, some cars pull the peddles back away from your feet when the crumple zone at the front of the car is crushed.
[Older cars don’t do this], I think that most modern ones do to pass the crash tests. But I stand to be corrected.
in most cases it is human nature for you to keep your foot on the brakes going into an accident,
[I think that race car drivers used to train themselves to pull their feet away just before the impact but you would not expect this of a normal driver]
I did have a collision with a student many years ago where I got to the brake and the clutch and took all the impact force through my left hip, which still gives me problems today.
@@ashley_neal ouch 😬. Is it true that dual controls used to have an accelerator pedal but was removed because many instructors went for the acc pedal instead of the brake in a crisis? A story my instructor told me one time. Not sure if some duals still have all three pedals or is it law to only have Brake and Clutch now? Just out of curiosity 🙂
I haven't been doing the job long enough to remember an accelerator pedal on the passenger side, but it's an interesting theory about why it was removed. Just the brake and clutch nowadays.
You've also not covered the VW Golf position.... Seat back as far as it will go and almost horizontal, right hand at 12 O' clock and left hand on gear stick.
I agree with that observation, seems to be the norm with certain makes of vehicle like the one you mentioned
I do find 10-2 hand position very tiring over long drives.
Ten to two like the watch in the shop window is comfortable to me.
"Wrapping your thumbs around the inside isn't good..." and yet that's what you were doing most of the time. Nothing wrong with that so long as they're fairly loose as they help balance the wheel when ntravelling straight. The Ford wheel is quite well designed in that respect allowing three possible hand-holds. However, I never drop my hands down like that and I don't find it uncomfortable at all to keep them between 3 and 9 and 2 and 10 o'clock as the thumbs help your arms to rest.
My only complaint about many steering wheels is the central hub turns with the wheel and the buttons, when you need them can be upside down, wrong way around. The old C4 I had, the hub stayed in the same position with the buttons always accessible.
Subtle difference between gripping tightly with the thumb and resting the thumb 😉
I have found the Ford steering wheel to be the most comfortable steering wheel for all positions. The only slight annoyance I have is the horn needs to be pressed from the middle as the edge press doesn’t always work
Quarter to three, if the airbags go off, they have been known to break bones in the forearms at ten to two.
I dont think it matters where your hand position is...
You can feed the wheel between your hands from any position providing you have 2 hands on the wheel 2 and 10 is no different to 4 and 8... As long as you are comfortable and have freedom of movement