Its really cool.to see the three different speaker models together. This must be extremely gratifying for Paul and Chris to see the fruit of this labour transformed into something they can be proud of. Kudos, gentlemen. ❤
So good to see the range alongside each other to get a real idea of the dimensions between them. The FR30s really are quite huge aren’t they. Really need to hear these up close and personal.
Moving off axis, on some designs, can be a nice improvement in tweeter fidelity. Many tweeters shriek or produce sibilance when played a bit loud and moving off the direct line of sight can reduce that unwanted effect. Also, the questioner mentioned having them unusually close together and it helps a bunch to toe them out to some degree because your seating position will also be closer and tweeters direct coupling with your ears is rarely optimal. So off axis can also smooth that out some. Each speaker, each room , each listener will be a custom setup so experiment to what pleases you.
One caveat I would add to this generally sound (no pun intended!) advice is that Martin Logan electrostatics have a curved panel an ML recommend that the inner third of the curve points toward one’s ears. So if one sits further back than an equilateral triangle would dictate, in my experience some mild toe out is called for. As usual, people should listen for themselves to determine the best amount (if any) toe in or toe out.
Acoustic Tsunami!? Good lord Paul. That must be the 1% that isn't True ;-) Another great video and congratulations on the FR speaker line up. They look great!
I like what Kef do with their modern themed speaker cabinet designs like the LS50s , Paint them! Hey Paul, how about fluro orange camo or duck egg blue as a custom paint option?
I know you are in favor of what is the most popular recommendation of an equilateral triangle arrangement. Speakers equal distance apart as from the listening position. Way back in the day when I was in Audio I remember it being a 2/3rds ratio. The speakers 2 units apart for every 3 units to the listener. 6' apart gave an 9' from each speaker listening spot. Perhaps for those with space restrictions this ratio would work.
Hi Paul, may I ask you why you have an isosceles triangle in your speaker setups usually? If I watch you vids I always see that the distance between the speaker is much shorter than from the speaker to the listening position. Sometimes you‘ll see that very good, depending where you‘ve placed your camera. I would guess you have for example 8 feet between the fr30 / fr20 and 10 feet from speaker to listener. Considering that you have ideal conditions in you specialised rooms (in the opposite to us „ordinary guys“ ) you easily could have set them up in an equilateral triangle. I also ask you because you strongly talk and write about having the speaker setup to equilateral whenever its possible. Thanx Steven from Germany
There's an answer for all of you regardless of what you're thinking it's exactly the same answer, It goes a little something like this, If you care enough about speaker placement to watch videos like this buy headphones. There now you all know the actual answer to what you should do if you should consider moving a speaker by a few mil in either direction. As it is all this toe in, toe out bullshit is defeated as soon as you turn your head at all and only works when you sit in one seat perfectly facing the right direction, when you get to that point save the rest of us from you having to tell us all how amazing you are at moving a speaker by a tiny amount and how your're dreaming it makes a difference and buy headphones.
or any energy for that matter. keep the ratio of direct to reflected signal biased to direct. toe-out is not a sin - if one is in a wide mid- or far-field space & the side-walls are a "good" distance from the speakers. speaker radiating pattern is also a factor, as Paul points out. ultimately it is a matter of acoustical-tuning-to-taste in your space, listening position, perception & the playback system you have. years ago, when I was in the driver / speaker biz (after many years as an audio / music enthusiast), it occurred to me that one creates a sort of musical instrument ... that integrates ALL elements (including design aesthetic), leaving the listener to do their part too. perception management is up to the listener.
In 45 years of Hi-Fi experience, I can honestly say I've NEVER heard of "toeing out" loudspeakers! ... It's incredible how much nonsense is connected with Hi-Fi. Enthusiasts will believe anything (particularly if it's expensive!), if they think it'll make their system sound better! It's sad, really! 🤣 In the context of new equipment, it's called "break in," and not "burn in." Break in is also useful for detecting faults in new equipment.
Toe in, burn in, power supplies, so many confusing opinions in hifi country. I’m still not sure what’s the truth 😅 nice video and thanks for all the information you share ❤
I think that’s about time for all loudspeakers designers start work on omnidirectional loudspeakers, using AI. Don’t make sense to have a sweet spot in a living room any longer.
A "living room" setup is a lot different than a "music room" setup. Is your space multipurpose or dedicated to music listening? Is it mostly for watching movies in multichannel surround sound or two speaker stereo for serious music listening?
![If you can't hear this then you're not an audiophile [See description for link to followup video]](/img/n.gif)
Its really cool.to see the three different speaker models together. This must be extremely gratifying for Paul and Chris to see the fruit of this labour transformed into something they can be proud of. Kudos, gentlemen. ❤
So good to see the range alongside each other to get a real idea of the dimensions between them. The FR30s really are quite huge aren’t they. Really need to hear these up close and personal.
Moving off axis, on some designs, can be a nice improvement in tweeter fidelity. Many tweeters shriek or produce sibilance when played a bit loud and moving off the direct line of sight can reduce that unwanted effect. Also, the questioner mentioned having them unusually close together and it helps a bunch to toe them out to some degree because your seating position will also be closer and tweeters direct coupling with your ears is rarely optimal. So off axis can also smooth that out some. Each speaker, each room , each listener will be a custom setup so experiment to what pleases you.
A veritable wall of sound behind Paul there.😊
One caveat I would add to this generally sound (no pun intended!) advice is that Martin Logan electrostatics have a curved panel an ML recommend that the inner third of the curve points toward one’s ears. So if one sits further back than an equilateral triangle would dictate, in my experience some mild toe out is called for. As usual, people should listen for themselves to determine the best amount (if any) toe in or toe out.
I liked at once when I spotted all loudspeaker standing nicely
For "s and giggles" I would try them out as a surround system durring set up or better yet in tear down just to see how they sound in that set up.
Acoustic Tsunami!? Good lord Paul. That must be the 1% that isn't True ;-) Another great video and congratulations on the FR speaker line up. They look great!
Paul , can you convince my wife that audio equipment is beautiful and should be seen as well as heard ? Nope , neither can I . 😢
Oh man. I feel for my brother-in-law. He had to put his speakers in the wall. My sister will never understand.
I like what Kef do with their modern themed speaker cabinet designs like the LS50s , Paint them!
Hey Paul, how about fluro orange camo or duck egg blue as a custom paint option?
Speakers Box Designed are Amazing...
Nice to see the full range of PS Audio full range speakers 😊
I’ll see ya at Axpona ( I hope you’re bringing the new baby speakers -FR5)!
Paul,
I hope one day we can get to hear and see PS Audio speakers and amplifiers here in Malaysia
No FR 5s
Good looking speakers
I would like to here them strut
Where does the room come in? If you are in a wide and short room situation, surely that is different from being in a narrow but long one - or what?
LOVE YA PAUL!!!!!!
I know you are in favor of what is the most popular recommendation of an equilateral triangle arrangement. Speakers equal distance apart as from the listening position. Way back in the day when I was in Audio I remember it being a 2/3rds ratio. The speakers 2 units apart for every 3 units to the listener. 6' apart gave an 9' from each speaker listening spot. Perhaps for those with space restrictions this ratio would work.
Hi Paul, may I ask you why you have an isosceles triangle in your speaker setups usually? If I watch you vids I always see that the distance between the speaker is much shorter than from the speaker to the listening position. Sometimes you‘ll see that very good, depending where you‘ve placed your camera. I would guess you have for example 8 feet between the fr30 / fr20 and 10 feet from speaker to listener. Considering that you have ideal conditions in you specialised rooms (in the opposite to us „ordinary guys“ ) you easily could have set them up in an equilateral triangle. I also ask you because you strongly talk and write about having the speaker setup to equilateral whenever its possible. Thanx Steven from Germany
aaa nice ..all together now
FR 10's look the best to me. Especially in a small room off course.
Who in their right mind would toe out their speakers… I mean REALLY🙈. Must be out of serious questions🥳
There's an answer for all of you regardless of what you're thinking it's exactly the same answer, It goes a little something like this, If you care enough about speaker placement to watch videos like this buy headphones. There now you all know the actual answer to what you should do if you should consider moving a speaker by a few mil in either direction. As it is all this toe in, toe out bullshit is defeated as soon as you turn your head at all and only works when you sit in one seat perfectly facing the right direction, when you get to that point save the rest of us from you having to tell us all how amazing you are at moving a speaker by a tiny amount and how your're dreaming it makes a difference and buy headphones.
Paul for king ❤❤❤
Always hated white speakers looks like had left over wood from trim in room so decided to make speakers to match wood trim. 😅
I think what the guy meant was, if the listening chair is moved back should the speakers be less toed in.
I hope I win the lottery one day so I could purchase a PS Audio system.
“Very wise Grasshopper” 😀
They should have the Subwoofer out next year.
Center channel not likely.
You don’t want the tweeter energy bouncing off the walls on purpose.
or any energy for that matter. keep the ratio of direct to reflected signal biased to direct. toe-out is not a sin - if one is in a wide mid- or far-field space & the side-walls are a "good" distance from the speakers. speaker radiating pattern is also a factor, as Paul points out. ultimately it is a matter of acoustical-tuning-to-taste in your space, listening position, perception & the playback system you have. years ago, when I was in the driver / speaker biz (after many years as an audio / music enthusiast), it occurred to me that one creates a sort of musical instrument ... that integrates ALL elements (including design aesthetic), leaving the listener to do their part too. perception management is up to the listener.
Meet the family.
All the speakers even the closest are towed in and they are less than 8-10ft. So who set up that room? Hmmm
Not a listening room. Temporary set up for burning in new equipment before taking all to Axpona audio show.
No toe of any kind. This is the proper way my son.
Just position a pair of Bose 901’s backwards 😊
Seems like they should be more concerned about setup than burn in based on some recent past situations.🤔🤫🙄
Yes, I saw those reviews from the last show....
@@garysmith8455 🤫😬🤐
In 45 years of Hi-Fi experience, I can honestly say I've NEVER heard of "toeing out" loudspeakers! ... It's incredible how much nonsense is connected with Hi-Fi. Enthusiasts will believe anything (particularly if it's expensive!), if they think it'll make their system sound better! It's sad, really! 🤣
In the context of new equipment, it's called "break in," and not "burn in." Break in is also useful for detecting faults in new equipment.
Toe in, burn in, power supplies, so many confusing opinions in hifi country. I’m still not sure what’s the truth 😅 nice video and thanks for all the information you share ❤
I’d suggest to try them for yourself and draw your own conclusions 👍🏻
No
mmm still room and rich people for a bigger FR40
come ooooon paul.. just push play. play something.. anything... show them alive
Only if they are really big and don't work anymore. (Haha!)
I think that’s about time for all loudspeakers designers start work on omnidirectional loudspeakers, using AI.
Don’t make sense to have a sweet spot in a living room any longer.
A "living room" setup is a lot different than a "music room" setup. Is your space multipurpose or dedicated to music listening? Is it mostly for watching movies in multichannel surround sound or two speaker stereo for serious music listening?
Ok. Ok. No toe in under 8 feet. Very useful information
Only a center channel and a sub missing.
Center channel NOT good for TRUE STEREO recordings = 2 channels. I do agree with the subwoofer. I enjoy 2.1 but not 3.1, save that for the movies LOL.