11:25 Paul Rennick said the reason for this rule is because judges have short memories, and having a little cheat sheet they use to be like “ok snare feature at 1’40, then front ensemble moment at 2’00” then the basses are gonna go wild at 2’30” so that the judges don’t miss anything and actually know what to adjudicate
I've always wanted themto have a drumline judge and front ensemble judge. When you listen to percussion tapes, you can always tell which section they were in because they're like "snares rotate this and that and grip this do that and that and tenors cross this and that and basses do this, oh and nice work mallets." They need professional adjudicators for both percussion families.
@@dylanjc 2024 bluecoats snare feature is really good example of this. that feature overlapping with the front ensembles run would hard for 1 judge to pick out.
The fact that the percussion 2 rule getting cut is absolutely astounding to me and it makes zero sense. If you’re going to take away the judge’s ability to actually evaluate the drummers by going on the field, why not at least have two judges to at least make the ratings more accurate.
I think it was mostly a cost consideration. If they passed the 2nd percussion judge then this year or in 2 years the two judges for guard and music would pass and increase the judging costs (travel food lodging and fee) I think there was general agreement it was a good instructional idea just not a sound business one.
I marched bass for Music City Drum Corps in 2017 and 2018. During one of our shows in 2018 I was marching backwards and ran into a field judge. We were both okay and after the movement was over and we had a hold in the drill he ran past me and yelled “Sorry bout’ that!”
4:40 listen it’s not about safety. Dci could take a lot more steps towards member safety that would matter during the entire rest of the season but we’ll see about that. Instead they tackled judges during competition, something that pops up to be a problem once a week for 15 minutes… how about mandating corps to a specific nutritional and sleep standard. Or do many other things. How about limits on props so we can get some less dangerous stuff in the mix instead of forcing our members to have to go through osha training like they’re construction workers
Regarding the member limit; I have to confess, I was out of the loop on this one, I knew that there was some upsizing from the traditional 128 that was the strict rule for several decades, but 165 must be having an impact on the number of corps that can be competitive. Also; huge props to those great corps from the 80's, 90's and 00's who blew people away with 128.
Agreed. We also don’t exactly have the same developmental curve where a 21 year old is a full adult societally. Young adults have less access to capital to move out immediately, we have a much higher amount of people going through college in either more than 4 years or taking a leap year going in. And college is so expensive now you’ve gotta be dropping 1-3 cars worth of money to college and march at the same time.
I think a better age out would be that.. yes, at the least make the age out the same as until the summer after your graduation from college (Younger than 23 on Jun 1st), then for WGI maybe Younger than 24 on April 1st)
I also think 23 is a great year. 21 years you are practically at peak talent and physical age for anything. Having kids to retire from drum corps because you reached the age limit which is too young is absolutely insane. 23 is great because you are old enough to know how the world works and most likely making independent decisions.
I would go with 24. There are people that go on a church of jesus christ of latter day saints mission, which lasts 2 years when they're 18, and moving the age out year to 25 will give those people 4 years of drum corps (after they finish the mission at 20).
As a former alternate, there's actually some corps that treat them well (half fees, same blocks as normal members besides drill, etc), but I agree there should still be a limit to them like the proposal's reasoning. The corps I marched had one per section in brass (idk abt perc/gaurd) and I feel that would be a reasonable limit for corps. Also as an ageout who got cut from my home corps, I 100% agree with extending the max age for obvious reasons.
I would much rather stay with a core I can depend onto always give me proper care than a lower core that may not as someone who has been in this position as well.
Maybe make the rule that if someone is signed on as an alternate to a corps, that corps cannot kick them off right before tour "just because". Contracts should bind both parties.
Of all the proposed rule changes, I would SO be in favor of increasing the age-out limit. One downside would be that there would be more of a glut of hangers-on who would deprive a younger participant of a spot. But I figure (and keep in mind that I never marched DCI, only in a small college band) that an increase in maturity would definitely be the case, as I figure people are just hitting their stride by 21! That's just too darn young to age out, IMHO.
No electronics, no amps, no microphones, no props that can't be carried by on-field performers. Reason? - Cost. $5,000 to march is ridiculous and exclusionary. Not a fan of the annual change in costumes (uniforms) either for similar reasons.
So many of the costumes are absolutely hideous looking as well. I'd like to be able to recognize a corps by sight but unless you're a superfan it's impossible.
The thing about the instrument rule is that it was more geared towards woodwinds. Guitars, cellos, synths, and all that kinda fall under percussion because they are plucked or struck in some way.
By raising ageout age, it will make it even harder for younger eligibles to march. Now they'll have to compete against grad students? There's already too few drum corps. It would make it even more difficult for undergrads to get in, and forget high school students. Just make a new division for 21+ and differentiate it from all-age (DCA). That might spur the beginning of new corps. Might also push some top 12 to go into 21+.
One important thing that I think most are forgetting here is the declining birth rate and its impact on shrinking the pool of eligible members in that age range. I think 25 is appropriate as it creates a sustainable pool where corps don't have to struggle as much to fill positions, it probably would encourage groups to create their own feeder corps... which I think is excellent towards establishing/re-establishing group culture when you move the average # of years marched closer to 3+ years instead of the 2.16 right now. Fewer people are going to college and even fewer are graduating in 4 years, so why not raise the age and provide the kids with the kind of community and culture that'll help them find their way forward in life?
2 judges for everyone rule is actually insane and such strawman. Brass is covered by brass… but also the music effect and ensemble music judges almost always give more feedback to the brass. Also the brass is exactly why that second percussion judge is even necessary and why the lack of field judge is a problem, it’s to easy to get lost behind y’all’s sound. And for guard… there’s 4 visual judges, and you’re gonna get more corps focused stuff out of vis effect and ensemble vis, but vis perf I’ve always heard hunting guard members harder too. Also also, like Scott Johnston has said before… this is the only place you’re gonna get corps style percussion. We’re completely different anywhere else you hear percussion, so dci and wgi owe it to the activity to make sure we are resourcing them well here. And just like, it’s such an obviously inflammatory rule only submitted to make all the drummers shut up about p2. God forbid we want our material adjudicated and our members work acknowledged and not hidden behind a giant brass line
As someone who marched a “lower” placing World Class corps, the video feedback would be HUGE. There were multiple instances over my two years in the corps where the staff bus was delayed due to the judge meeting (and subsequently things like drivers “timing out” as a result) so much that we actually had to miss the morning block the next day because some or all of the staff was not at the housing site with the corps. Allowing them to leave with the corps and not have to stay back would allow them to both get the feedback and not have to delay the corps membership or miss practice the next day. If the corps gets delayed it means less sleep for the members, which can also impact performance in rehearsal the next day.
I am holding out hopes for a WGI all-age bracket! I think this would work fine because A) You're never to old for an education as you said and B) WGI/indoor is much like the all-age DCI brackets since besides finals in Dayton, you only compete on weekends.
Technically, WGI World is already 'all age' as there is no age limit. Obviously not everyone is at that skill level (or wants that kind of experience), but the issue is how do you govern independent all-age groups that want to compete at an A or Open level and not have them dominate with 'world class level' members. Not impossible, but it definitely requires a lot of thinking about how to make it work.
@@jenniferrynne4323 I was referring to WGI Percussion, which caps Independent groups at 22 years old. But you are right, it would be hard to incorporate a third new bracket after independent and scholastic.
You can't simply close horn spots in. They're not like battery spots. Horn spots have to be filled by someone, otherwise you're looking at a complete drill rewrite.
The thing is that 3 busses @ 55 seats each is 165 seats. So if a Corps is marching 165 on the field, with several alternates along for the season, it would require an additional bus, and all the extra costs that would come with it. If they want, say 6, alternates, then write the show for 159 members on the field.
Every corps since the beginning of marching music has had to deal with losing a player and compensating on some level. Granted it was probably easier years ago with simpler drill, but it's still possible. When I marched we lost a couple of horn players. The director just called up some people who were staying home that summer and asked if they could fill in for the last 4 weeks or whatever. They were good marchers and we placed nicely.
It's kinda crazy a corps can't handle a drop out when most (if not all) high schools across the country have to deal with it constantly. Not to mention people joining half way through the season. If I can do it on a shoe string budget, the million dollar corps can adapt.
@@SilverBordered I can tell that you never marched. You obviously do not know anything about what makes this activity unique. Drum Corps shows are significantly more complex and significantly more difficult than any high school out there, even more so than the type of groups that win Grand Nationals. Most top groups do not travel with alternates (there is no point of being on tour if you're not actively contributing...you're just another mouth to feed), which means that if someone needs to be replaced, they need someone with drum corps experience. This isn't high school. Members can't just be replaced with kids off the street. Drum corps is also different in that the replacements have to travel to where the corps is located, which is particularly hard if the corps is constantly traveling across the country. High schools don't have to worry about finding replacements because everyone is co-located, and if you're an educator worth their salt, you expect at least some of your kids to fail their classes and become ineligible. Drum Corps don't have that problem. Instead, they have to worry about injuries and the occasional person that quits. Corps can have emergency contact members in their back pocket, but plans can change mid-season. So yeah, drum corps is not the same as high school band 🙄
Age-out at 21 makes sense to maintain. 21 is a common done-with-school age, which keeps the activity centered around the habits and schedules of students. Besides, the current potential age gap is already profound; adding legally-drinking adults to a bunch of high schoolers on a bus could get bad.
Maybe what they really need is separate age classes like some dance companies have. They have under 18 and 18+ categories because they recognize that the desire to dance doesn’t stop once you hit a certain age.
"adding legally-drinking adults to a bunch of high schoolers on a bus could get bad" - Been there, done that during the decades the legal drinking age was 18. Yeah, it did cause some problems.
Close your eyes, go back in time, and picture the 1980, 27th Lancers coming off the line playing “Crown Imperial” with a bagpiper walking in front of that fabulous rifle line! Good times😂
1:08 the performance order rule would benefit smaller corps so much, coming from someone who marched with BTAL in '24 since we start our tour in utah for our first week of tour we got maybe a couple hours of rehearsals in the the first just because we had to perform so early in the day! it was pretty chill though when we got to the end of the season and got to go third or fourth to last at open class finals under the lights
Anyways, here's Fnaf lore: William Afton and Henry Emily opened a restaurant around the early 70s, named Fredbear's Family Diner, which quickly evolved into a chain of restaurants known as "Freddy Fazbear's Pizza," started in 1983, under the company of Fazbear Entertainment, Inc. At some point, both of them left the company, with an unknown individual taking over as CEO. William was secretly a serial killer, using mascot costumes to lure, abduct, and murder kids. His motives aren't known, though widely speculated to be him trying to achieve immortality through researching the paranormal, haunted metal (known as remnant), which he created through the murders. His first target was Charlotte Emily, the daughter of Henry. She became the Marionette, a ghost who took care of and helped awaken the other lost souls. In 1983, William's younger son also died in an incident, at the fault of his eldest - Michael. The younger son (name unknown, BV for short) 's fate is still unknown, though often speculated to be connected to either Golden Freddy (an enigmatic spirit taking the form of a yellow bear) or helping Charlie with saving other souls. "I will put you back together" was the last thing said to BV by a debatable party, most commonly believed to be either William, Charlie, or Golden Freddy. In 1985, William killed 2 kids, and 3 others were later connected to that incident (The Missing Children Incident, or MCI). He was arrested but released due to a lack of evidence. 4 of these kids were Gabriel, Susie, Little Jeremy, and Fritz, going on to haunt Freddy, Bonnie, Chica, and Foxy, respectively, with Susie implied to have been the first to die. The 5th is commonly believed to be named Cassidy, becoming Golden Freddy, though some think it's someone else. In 1987, William pretended to be a security guard at a new Pizzeria and killed 5 more kids (DCI for short), who went on to be the Toy animatronics. This caused the unimportant Bite of '87. In 1993, Mike worked a shift at the haunted original Freddy's. Later that year, the location was closed, and the company went bankrupt. He later had some sort of nightmares about it and his brother's death, likely paranormal in nature. At some point, William went to that original Freddy's to destroy the 4 haunted robots, but ghosts manifested, and fearing for his life, he put on the costume he used to kill them. It was actually a part costume part robot hybrid, though, and due to the leaking roof, the machine snapped on him, killing him. He went on to haunt it and/or his corpse inside. While Freddy's existed, a Sister Location called "Circus Baby's Pizza World" opened. It was a front for William to kill more kids, with the robots there made to kidnap them. It backfired when his daughter sneaked in to see Baby, and it killed her. She then haunted it. William, distraught, locked her and the other robots from there in an underground warehouse where they were rented out for parties. The other robots also got haunted somehow, likely with melted down remnant from some other kids, most likely MCI. Years later, William sent Mike there to find Elizabeth. Thinking he was William, she tricked him, and the Funtime Robots combined into one amalgam of wires, killed Mike, and used his corpse as a skin suit to escape. He quickly rotted, and they had to escape to the sewers. He repossessed his corpse thanks to remnant, though. Around 30 years after his death (presumably 2023, though that may be debunked now), William was found by Phone Dude, who stole him and put him into his cheap horror attraction based on the Freddy's urban legends, not knowing William was inside the robot. After a few nights, the building burned down, and William escaped. There's also a good ending in that game where Charlie released the other spirits, but its canonicity is "complicated" according to Scott (FNaF creator). Mike also had a security logbook at some point, where two ghosts, BV and presumably Cassidy (given it's not him), talked about something. Finally, after like 50 years, Henry re-emerged and made a fake pizzeria, where he called the Funtime robots, now separated from Elizabeth, herself, and William. He also made a robot that captured Charlie. After a bunch of managers failed to collect all 4 robots, Mike came and succeeded. Henry burned them all and himself, with high temperatures now revealed to work on ghosts, apparently. Fazbear Entertainment, Inc. was supposedly closed for good. But one ghost, very highly implied to be Golden Freddy, though argued as a random never-before-seen 6th MCI kid by some, wasn't ready to let William go, so he kept him from being released and tortured him in super nightmares. There's a book series called Fazbear Frights which has debatable canonicity too that'd take place after this, but if canon it's basically just filler that nullifies the Vengeful Spirit nightmares thing. After all this, Fazbear Entertainment was revived as Fazbear Entertainment, LLC. They kidnapped a guy and gaslighted him into living in a secluded fake house they made for him, where he made FNAF games, in the FNaF universe, as to make it seem like it was all just fake stories. A VR game was later made, that was a remake of these, but some suspecious circuit boards were sent to be scanned into it, creating a paranormal, digital entity known as Glitchtrap. It appears as a man in Spring Bonnie (William's suit), acts exactly like William, knows stuff only William knows and even claims to be back, with William's catchphrase of sorts being "I always come back". After a bit of shenanigans, it manages to possess a beta tester and makes her his minion. We call her Vanny. Vanessa, most likely Vanny, then got a desk job at Fazbear Entertainment. Fazbear Funtime Service, a program where animatronics were mass produced and sent for parties, etc. got hijacked by Glitchtrap who made them hostile. He made Vanessa infiltrate the service as a fake FazEnt representative, supposedly fix his infection, but actually just cut off anyone's access to the system other than him, and send a data packet with him to the current Pizzeria - Freddy Fazbear's Mega Pizzaplex. In the current book series, most likely canon, there's this AI called Mimic1, which copies stuff. Many think that's actually what Glitchtrap is, just AI copying William. It's an ongoing debate. An Endoskeleton with it installed was sent to the last simulated Freddy's Henry built to burn, where it got out of control, started killing people and in the ongoing story is hunting down a group of teens. As the Pizzaplex was built on top of the simulated Freddy's, the Mimic got control over it too, but was quickly taken down. There's also this boy Gregory who ended up possessed by Glitchtrap and hacking the Pizzaplex for reasons unknown. Now in Security Breach (possibly 2035), Gregory, out of Glitchtrap's control, had to escape being trapped in the Pizzaplex, as all the robots controlled by Glitchtrap and Vanny wanted to kill him. With the help of Glamrock Freddy, most likely haunted by someone, though it's unknown who, Greg ended up finding a newly built Springtrap in the simulated Freddy's and somehow defeating it. There's also a giant abomination of wires that resambles the Funtime amalgam down there, it took this William away. Fnaf 6 Ending: Connection terminated. I'm sorry to interrupt you, Elizabeth, if you still even remember that name, But I'm afraid you've been misinformed. You are not here to receive a gift, nor have you been called here by the individual you assume, although, you have indeed been called. You have all been called here, into a labyrinth of sounds and smells, misdirection and misfortune. A labyrinth with no exit, a maze with no prize. You don't even realize that you are trapped. Your lust for blood has driven you in endless circles, chasing the cries of children in some unseen chamber, always seeming so near, yet somehow out of reach, but you will never find them. None of you will. This is where your story ends. And to you, my brave volunteer, who somehow found this job listing not intended for you, although there was a way out planned for you, I have a feeling that's not what you want. I have a feeling that you are right where you want to be. I am remaining as well. I am nearby. This place will not be remembered, and the memory of everything that started this can finally begin to fade away. As the agony of every tragedy should. And to you monsters trapped in the corridors, be still and give up your spirits. They don't belong to you. For most of you, I believe there is peace and perhaps more waiting for you after the smoke clears. Although, for one of you, the darkest pit of Hell has opened to swallow you whole, so don't keep the devil waiting, old friend. My daughter, if you can hear me, I knew you would return as well. It's in your nature to protect the innocent. I'm sorry that on that day, the day you were shut out and left to die, no one was there to lift you up into their arms the way you lifted others into yours, and then, what became of you. I should have known you wouldn't be content to disappear, not my daughter. I couldn't save you then, so let me save you now. It's time to rest - for you, and for those you have carried in your arms. This ends for all of us. End communication.
It’s so sad that the corps placement order rule got shut down. That rule really addressed much of the equity issues in dci. It would be a genuine step to combat how much money helps corps. As a past member, it’s so clear how much MONEY determines success. The more money, the better the equipment, meals, talent attracted, and more. One can easily see how the top 12 just receive more sponsorships and talents. Either way, it’s a major issue within the activity. I ALWAYS performed in the sun and felt bitter when bd could warm up in the 70 degree Texas weather. Sad to see the activity rejected fairness.
@ Don't ever look to DCI to be a competitive platform; it's not. It's slanted to be a platform to further sustain the units already benefitting. You know that. The only way things change is if someone brings more money. It's like the soccer leagues around the world, honestly.
It's no different than High School Marching Bands... the rich schools battle it out for supremacy every year. Not only do they reside in the richest School Districts, but they have the added benefit of being the wealthiest per-capita schools within those districts, with the most resources from which to pull donations. The other 97% of the schools at the big competitions are just there to fill space and pay contest fees so the competitions can keep being hosted. As long as the deciding factor year-over-year remains "available dollars", it will always be this way. In DCI, as with High Schools...As long as the big dogs hold sway over rules and processes, there will be no 'leveling of the playing field'. The big dogs don't want it level, they need it slanted in their favor. Short of everyone who is on the outside refusing to participate, this will not change.
As much as I understand why you want to raise the age-out to theoretically allow people to join that weren't available (financially or otherwise) to march before 21, I think it would actually do the opposite and limit involvement if unchecked. If there are 21 world-class corps with 165 spots, that's only about 3500 performers per year at the top level. Every member that ages out makes space for someone new to the activity, so a theoretical 8-year vet making a corps at 18 and aging out at 25 might be taking up the spaces that up to 4 additional members could have had in that time if they aged out at 21. While I understand that it might drive the absolute talent level and potential of the final DCI product up to allow longer stints, I think DCI is as much about the experience and journey for talented young adults as the end product and that turnover of new musicians is super important. Maybe a middle ground might be the college sports approach with a cap on participation years. You could raise age-out to 25 but also limit membership to 4 years at the world-class level, to ensure that you're still continuously making space for the next generation of performers.
That was my thought too. Raising the age doesn't alleviate any problems. I think it enhances problems at the lower end. The top 5 will be stronger and the lower corps will lose out. The turn over in members would take much longer.
Meh ... I'm going to state a bit of a nonsequitur here, but I'm a 35 year old fencer. Something that has always bugged me to the hilt (pun intended) is that 16 and 18 year old fencers have something like 5 and 3 more events, respectively, than a 25 year old fencer with the same rating. There is good reason to have specific junior events but this has to be offset by things for seniors to do, or else you just have a sport where the question is if your parents have the wherewithal and cash to allow you to compete.
You should have noticed by now that that very few people in DCI under the age of 35 place any value whatsoever on what made drum corps impressive and unique.
I wish we had drum corps divisions that split into more smaller age gaps. For example: Class #1 = Ages 14-18 Class #2 = Ages 18-21 Class #3 = Ages 21-25 Class #4 = Ages 25+
@@mountainsky4279 That seems like a good idea... almost like how in Soccer, you have Under10s etc. but its not like at age 30 you lose your competitive edge
I honestly disagree. Sure someone like me could theoretically march 9 seasons if 25 becomes the new age limit, but not everyone is as fortunate as I am and some people just aren't able to afford it until later. I think an age limit increase would just allow more people to march and expand the talent pool by a wide margin. It would also give members more opportunity to skip a summer without feeling like they're missing out on a large part of their potential experience. Which in turn could lead to healthier fundraising efforts and just make marching multiple seasons more feasible for some people.
Back in the day, it was March for the corps director to release you to another corps. I got cut from a Div 1 corps in Jan. Got accepted to a Div III corps, then got called back to the Div 1 corps in March/April because the dude who took the spot never showed up again. I had to get permission from the Div III corps director to go to the Div 1 corps (dating myself) to accept the spot.
I don't know if it happened with other corps also, but the rule regarding making alternates part of the 165 member roster reads in direct response to what happened at Crown in 2018. Crown over contracted in every section by like 2 or 3 extra people and then only told them 3/4s of the way through spring training that they wouldn't be going on tour with everyone else. They refunded half of tour fees, but that's pretty pathetic. Basically those people got to do the worst month of a 3 month season and at minimum paid for an extra 1/2 a month they didn't even get.
Old guy here. In Canada, back in the day, you couldn’t join a new corps after October (? - or something like that). I don’t know if this was a legit rule or an unwritten rule. Part of the reasoning was to support smaller corps, so their members wouldn’t up and leave after they started learning a new show, as parts were often written based on the number of players available. There was no contract, of course, as these were kids. The corps just kept a roster and the directors would enforce it based on who you committed to at the start of the rehearsal season. The thirst for DCI (instead of just local circuits) is what ended drum corps in Canada. Drum corps was HUGE in Ontario, and the smaller corps were feeder corps to the two DCI corps (70s). But the more and more kids that jumped ship from smaller corps, the more of these corps folded. And, eventually, there were not enough people left to feed to DCI corps. So I think a date restriction is extremely important - and that it should be much earlier than noted in the proposed rule.
Judges should be allowed on the f field again, Or at least to the back hash. It’s insane they don’t. It’s not about safety. Rarely was an issue and they still have field judges in boa with way larger ensembles.
I think there should be a pit judge and a battery judge personally. Pit and battery are typically on opposite sides of the field, and they're doing completely different things, so it would make sense to have two different people judging them Like, that makes sense, but it also means there would technically be two percussion judges
Good thing that I watched this video, because when I saw the TH-cam app of this video showing a cowbell with "This is illegal" on it, I thought it was referring to all the times when members of an audience watching live sports kept ringing cowbells to show their support for the team or athlete, and in any sports program, you can hear cowbells in the background being rung. I am glad it has nothing to do with the cowbells rung by audience members.
I agree with the contract issue. You sign, you stay. The only way that is going to change is if DCI starts getting into things like NIL or they come up with a way to open a transfer portal like the NCAA.
You got to pay the musicians first or give the transfers a rebate back if they do transfer. The fact that these kids pay thousands of dollars to perform and get criticized for leaving is ridiculous.
3:53, For my freshman year we had this one competition where the judge went like completely on the field and I bumped into him and chipped my reed really bad 😭. And that same competition, a different judge got stuck under the flyover that we had and they didn’t take points off but we still managed to get all sweeps in every category for 6A.
i think i slight addition to the last one you recommended about the age-out age, while your with the corp you should not be allowed to drink alcohol so that you don’t get hungover the day before a show
My corps loved the game of Dodge Judge - we even earned a soda for everyone when a contra backed into a judge who had barely been missed in the SAME PORTION OF THE DRILL for two earlier competitions.
Thank You on talking about that age out idea. I would say yes 25 for DCI but….. you got all age Drum Corps as well. I marched Bayou City Blues Senior All age Drum & Bugle Corps in 2017 for DCI Sound Sport in San Antonio,TX And with the age of the members in the corp, it’s kind of a mix of old members who extremely know how to play and perform and it’s helping the younger members who are trying to learn the activity and perform at a higher level as well. Definitely I would debate on the age out issue if they were to bring it up but knowing DCI they won’t. But of course Sound Sport allows the smarter corps and Senior corps to perform still.
The 3rd rule would kick out dci mesquite from hosting a show. The beauty and beast of that show site is how close you are to the front sideline from the first row seating. There isn’t 5 more feet that place could give.
Just when you thought the priorities couldn't get more idiotic... only ONE judge for a moving, highly intricate portion of a drum corps... makes sense 😂 let's strive for no adjudication next year!
I really think upping the age out year to 25 would significantly lower the amount of younger corps members. Especially in those top tier corps. They would only take the older more mature performers.
10:45 I was placed as an alternate my age out year in a top Drum corps and I will tell you the alternate "pool" is a thing that is still used in todays drum corps. It is ruining the whole purpose of doing drum corps if you are an alternate. Me and the other alternates that where with me had gained nothing but depression, degrading of our selfs and being completely traumatized of the activity. I wish I could tell you the drum core name but I have chosen to make it anonymous, but just know that even a few years after being an alternate I still need a Medical therapy to heal my trauma.
If they must have alternates they really should have everyone in the section take turns sitting out. Then it’s like everyone gets a show day to rest and everyone gets multiple performances instead of a few people never getting to perform and hating their lives.
I marched a show where one of the color guard performers dislocated their knee in the middle of the show and had to be taken off in the middle of the show by one of our techs. They were stuck on the field for a while.
I’d go in a slightly different direction- two categories still, but Junior corps age out is 18. Over 18 there would be no limit. It would look like: 18+: DCI World/Open Class U18: DCI Junior World/Open Class
One of the issues that has popped up in all-age corps is that you have long Summer trips away from home with 60 year old men and 14 year old girls. Recipe for disaster (see George Hopkins for an example). I'd personally rather keep DCI's age-out at 21. It gets messy to have half your corps legally able to consume weed/alcohol in social settings while the other half can't/shouldn't. Probably lots of liability on the line for those in charge.
My thoughts exactly. "Think of the children" actually needs to be accounted for here. I wouldn't want a 25 year old touring with a high school kid. The difference in maturity is far to different.
I mean, the simplest answer to that concern about the age-outs is have a standard rule that "Members cannot consume alcohol or any illicit drug during any official Corps activity." You still have plenty of 21-year-olds on tour every year, so corps clearly deal with that concern already. I just don't think that reason is very good considering that.
@@5PctJuice you would be surprised how not well handled that concern is with _just_ the 21 year olds, especially among some of the less stable performing groups.
You won’t find them online published by DCI. They are considered proprietary and even though they are a nonprofit, they are aloud to have internal documentation and keep things that are proprietary from being public. I’m guessing the corps directors have access to them.
So the only rules that passed were officially allowing instruments that have been around forever and the first step in allowing woodwinds? Bummer. And i say this as a Friend of DCI who just dropped about $4k on tickets to Indy this year after 5he heartbreak of the Allentown rainout last year.
As far as the first rule proposal (allowing solo instruments) and Troopers having the cello soloist... I believe the rule before about which instruments are allowed included electronic instruments, which is why corps have keyboards. And the Troopers used an electronic cello, which is why it was allowed. I'm not sure how the harmonica was allowed, though
The age restriction is primarily because of 21 being drinking age. This is one of the biggest challenges in the all-age space where we have members from 14 to 60's. With all-age, we don't tour together all summer so we can all go home at the end of the day and do whatever. But when you're touring together for weeks on end, it's a member safety concern to have so many members above 21. Secondly, after you graduate college, most people don't have the time off in the summer to tour, hence why the weekend-only all-age schedule works well. Lastly, if the age limit was higher, that would take away spots from younger members as the more experienced, older folks would be more likely to fill spots.
11:25 Like in my other comment I have to refer to the World Music Contest again: In Europe it's common to have a ladyspeaker introduce the band/corps once they are on the field in their starting position. Especially in the Netherlands this introduction also includes a short explaination of what the show is about or what the story is. This usually takes about 1 to 2 minutes max.
Moving the age out year would be amazing. I’m 24 and I never got to march because I was too busy with college. I really wish I could have, and while I probably won’t get to, it would be nice to give future generations the chance to do what I didn’t.
@@Surelockohms And it will no doubt lead to allowing woodwinds on the marching field which will shape this activity we came to know and love for its recognizable difference from our normal band experience into just another marching band. It was bad enough when they switched to regular band brass instruments and that led us down the road to allowing trombones and such. This has been an unpaid advertisement from a boomer who marched 45 years ago and who still enjoys and admires the hard work put in by today's corps members and their staffs and who is still obviously dealing with all of the changes made to an activity that I am blessed to have participated in when it was in its pure state. Okay, now I will go and take a nap. Ha!
@@Surelockohms changing to the extent of being unrecognizable and dying are effectively the same thing. you'll understand the importance of cultural preservation after everything you've ever known and loved has been pulled out from under your feet in a few years, too.
You’re right about the age-out rule, but you’re also wrong. Yes, it’s technically “21 is the absolute limit,” but there’s a rule that’s been in place for a little bit that says if you have a 22nd birthday mid-season (let’s just use my July 29th birthday as an example), then you can still march. But anything after that is a big no-no.
7:30, I agree the skill gap isn't that wide for brass, they're all functionally the same instrument with slight variations (I'm saying this as a brass musician), but for colorguard, the skill gap is as wide or wider than that of percussion. Having said that, I do agree that they need to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
6:30 Can anyone tell me what the current number of judges is? Because this subject makes me think of the number of judges we had during the World Music Contest (WMC) in the Netherlands. Even for a simple thing as the Marching Contest (which my band participated in) there were 7 judges: 1. Music Performance (in the skybox) 2. Music Performance Brass (on the field) 3. Music Performance Percussion (on the field) 4. Visual Performance (in the skybox) 5. Visual Performance Brass (on the field) 6. Visual Performance Percussion (on the field) 7. Drum Major Performance (on the field) On the Show Contest there were 2 additional judges, but I forgot which aspect they judged.
Agree on the age out rule, no age limit. Some of us had crap high school programs and never got good enough to march DCI until later in life. Sucks to be old and no where to march.
Apparently the main way to get your hands on a rulebook is to call the DCI office and they’ll sell you one. It’s probably prohibitively expensive for an average joe to get one, but I think we would all appreciate it if you called to see if you could get your hands on one. I’d be interested to hear the rules.
Mattie (bluestars conductor) said they were not aiming for open instrumentation but for open amplification because of the troopers show was considered “legal”
When I was in marching band we where told running into a judge (Only if they where on your drill path) would get extra points for commitment haha Same thing about drumline walking into our damn flags, we will hit you, follow your drill :p
Im old school. Get rid of electronics. DCI should be G bugles, drumlines, a pit, and color guard. Real instruments, no mics. Go back to the traditional uniforms. They dont have to be wool and hot, but the Cavaliers should wear the Cavaliers uniform
Wait, there's a 165 performer limit? Back in high school, they allow 300+ member bands, but that might just be due to them not wanting to tell teenagers in high school that they can't participate.
But also did you notice the drill for those shows usually sucked. I had some of those schools in my circuit and they could hardly move around cuz there was just so many people
@Ques4dilla Ah yeah. My band was actually 250 members, but we had some good drill. We did go to grand nationals last year, but I honestly didn't pay much attention to the bands with 300+ members.
They could still do the panel equity rule if they just separated percussion into 2 captions, drumline and front ensemble. The score could be split between them so it wouldn’t change overall.
Hey EMC! I’ve been an audio engineer for drum corps and high schools for a few years now. I’m also a percussionist. If you ever want to get to know audio more, lmk
Moving the age-out is a big one, because I was too worried about school/college and felt I was splitting my focus. It turned into do I want to focus on my life/career path or do 'drums on field' lol. Either have gone by for me but at least going until 23 or at 25 age-out. But I could see where spots at top corps could turn into spots being incredibly sparce and a spot opening could be hard to come by. Or....... or.... or more corps would be formed which could be real cool. (bring back Glassmen haha)
I wish they would bring back the tick system - but in conjunction with the current system. Currently there are no penalties for ticks.. So they would score the normal way, but would also have a tick judge for caption.. the scores would then average out for the final score for each caption. For example if a corps performs well and scores a 98, but is full of mistakes and their tick score is a 90, their final score would be 94. This would make it so technique and execution will be just as important as the entertainment factor
I have been watching your videos for SO long, you’ve inspired me to play in the Drum-line. I was wondering if you could turn the cadence “Unfinished” high schoolers made in a school gym, and put it on drums. I’m pretty sure you’re the only one capable of doing that. It was a short video of high schoolers in 2021. I would greatly appreciate it if you could try to ❤
It wasn't a safety issue for 50 years, most of which had many more corps and shows than exist today. I say this as someone who crashed into a field judge three times, all three were within 8 counts of drill. I also saw a field percussion judge take a rifle to the face from a guard girl half his size, and it's far more dangerous to be the judge in that situation.
I propose adding 15 feet to the pit. It will solely be used for pit cart demolition derby
Which will start 30 minutes prior to the start of the show, thereby eliminate the low attendance for the first performers.
11:25 Paul Rennick said the reason for this rule is because judges have short memories, and having a little cheat sheet they use to be like “ok snare feature at 1’40, then front ensemble moment at 2’00” then the basses are gonna go wild at 2’30” so that the judges don’t miss anything and actually know what to adjudicate
Them cutting prof Rennick’s rule about a second perc judge is bs
They miss so much.......
I've always wanted themto have a drumline judge and front ensemble judge. When you listen to percussion tapes, you can always tell which section they were in because they're like "snares rotate this and that and grip this do that and that and tenors cross this and that and basses do this, oh and nice work mallets." They need professional adjudicators for both percussion families.
Nic like short for Nicotine?
@@dylanjc Yes
@@dylanjc 2024 bluecoats snare feature is really good example of this. that feature overlapping with the front ensembles run would hard for 1 judge to pick out.
The fact that the percussion 2 rule getting cut is absolutely astounding to me and it makes zero sense. If you’re going to take away the judge’s ability to actually evaluate the drummers by going on the field, why not at least have two judges to at least make the ratings more accurate.
I think it was mostly a cost consideration. If they passed the 2nd percussion judge then this year or in 2 years the two judges for guard and music would pass and increase the judging costs (travel food lodging and fee) I think there was general agreement it was a good instructional idea just not a sound business one.
I marched bass for Music City Drum Corps in 2017 and 2018. During one of our shows in 2018 I was marching backwards and ran into a field judge. We were both okay and after the movement was over and we had a hold in the drill he ran past me and yelled “Sorry bout’ that!”
4:40 listen it’s not about safety. Dci could take a lot more steps towards member safety that would matter during the entire rest of the season but we’ll see about that. Instead they tackled judges during competition, something that pops up to be a problem once a week for 15 minutes… how about mandating corps to a specific nutritional and sleep standard. Or do many other things. How about limits on props so we can get some less dangerous stuff in the mix instead of forcing our members to have to go through osha training like they’re construction workers
Not to mention actually taking member abuse seriously.
Yeah, maybe take a look at child labor laws too.
Just like in college sports, a certain amount of time rehearsing.
Yea, I see some corps have specific rules for safety and care, but then I hear about other corps pushing members health past its limits
100% agree on the prop thing. marched last summer and our visual caption head could care less if you tripped over a prop
People underestimate how much JAZZ The Blue Devils can do now that they have a solo instrument.
Looing forward to a Coltrane show.
The rules are written by the winners.
I'm more interested in what other corps would do with the rule, to be honest
The same "jazz" they've been doing all along lmao. Changing one instrument won't make them any more "jazzy" lol.
SAXOMOPHONE
I drove a bus for a couple of years for the Blue Knights in a different lifetime. Seeing this video show up on my feed hit me right in the nostalgia.
Regarding the member limit; I have to confess, I was out of the loop on this one, I knew that there was some upsizing from the traditional 128 that was the strict rule for several decades, but 165 must be having an impact on the number of corps that can be competitive. Also; huge props to those great corps from the 80's, 90's and 00's who blew people away with 128.
128 or less.
23 would be a good age out.
I missed my age our year after serving in the Navy. Because the corps folded. Velvet Knights in 1997.
Agreed. We also don’t exactly have the same developmental curve where a 21 year old is a full adult societally. Young adults have less access to capital to move out immediately, we have a much higher amount of people going through college in either more than 4 years or taking a leap year going in. And college is so expensive now you’ve gotta be dropping 1-3 cars worth of money to college and march at the same time.
this
I think a better age out would be that.. yes, at the least make the age out the same as until the summer after your graduation from college (Younger than 23 on Jun 1st), then for WGI maybe Younger than 24 on April 1st)
I also think 23 is a great year. 21 years you are practically at peak talent and physical age for anything. Having kids to retire from drum corps because you reached the age limit which is too young is absolutely insane.
23 is great because you are old enough to know how the world works and most likely making independent decisions.
I would go with 24. There are people that go on a church of jesus christ of latter day saints mission, which lasts 2 years when they're 18, and moving the age out year to 25 will give those people 4 years of drum corps (after they finish the mission at 20).
As a former alternate, there's actually some corps that treat them well (half fees, same blocks as normal members besides drill, etc), but I agree there should still be a limit to them like the proposal's reasoning. The corps I marched had one per section in brass (idk abt perc/gaurd) and I feel that would be a reasonable limit for corps.
Also as an ageout who got cut from my home corps, I 100% agree with extending the max age for obvious reasons.
I would much rather stay with a core I can depend onto always give me proper care than a lower core that may not as someone who has been in this position as well.
Maybe make the rule that if someone is signed on as an alternate to a corps, that corps cannot kick them off right before tour "just because". Contracts should bind both parties.
Of all the proposed rule changes, I would SO be in favor of increasing the age-out limit. One downside would be that there would be more of a glut of hangers-on who would deprive a younger participant of a spot. But I figure (and keep in mind that I never marched DCI, only in a small college band) that an increase in maturity would definitely be the case, as I figure people are just hitting their stride by 21! That's just too darn young to age out, IMHO.
Could you imagine marching 10 solid years. My knees hurt just thinking about it.
But others can... I believe in terms of age outs that its up to the people to stretch their bodies, not get cut
I marched 12 years. Would I do it all again? F'n right I would!
There's a lady still marching in the WVU band today who's been there since the mid 80s. CBS News even did a story on her a few years back.
I can see the wheelchair meetings of ex tenor players
Rest in Peace lower back….
0:32 made it into my first EMC Vid‼‼
No electronics, no amps, no microphones, no props that can't be carried by on-field performers. Reason? - Cost. $5,000 to march is ridiculous and exclusionary. Not a fan of the annual change in costumes (uniforms) either for similar reasons.
So many of the costumes are absolutely hideous looking as well. I'd like to be able to recognize a corps by sight but unless you're a superfan it's impossible.
The thing about the instrument rule is that it was more geared towards woodwinds. Guitars, cellos, synths, and all that kinda fall under percussion because they are plucked or struck in some way.
By raising ageout age, it will make it even harder for younger eligibles to march. Now they'll have to compete against grad students? There's already too few drum corps. It would make it even more difficult for undergrads to get in, and forget high school students.
Just make a new division for 21+ and differentiate it from all-age (DCA). That might spur the beginning of new corps. Might also push some top 12 to go into 21+.
Or form elder corps, like how Santa Clara Vanguards has the SCV Cadets and Blue Devils has Blue Devils B and C.
I agree, it was hard enough as it was getting in when I was 20. There is no way I could have competed with 25 year olds.
One important thing that I think most are forgetting here is the declining birth rate and its impact on shrinking the pool of eligible members in that age range. I think 25 is appropriate as it creates a sustainable pool where corps don't have to struggle as much to fill positions, it probably would encourage groups to create their own feeder corps... which I think is excellent towards establishing/re-establishing group culture when you move the average # of years marched closer to 3+ years instead of the 2.16 right now. Fewer people are going to college and even fewer are graduating in 4 years, so why not raise the age and provide the kids with the kind of community and culture that'll help them find their way forward in life?
Hey there, thanks so much for this video, it was very educational, informative, and FUN!!! Keep up the great videos you make !!!!!
I saw the thumbnail and clicked. WHAT DID THEY DO TO MY COWBELLS!!??!?!?
2 judges for everyone rule is actually insane and such strawman.
Brass is covered by brass… but also the music effect and ensemble music judges almost always give more feedback to the brass.
Also the brass is exactly why that second percussion judge is even necessary and why the lack of field judge is a problem, it’s to easy to get lost behind y’all’s sound.
And for guard… there’s 4 visual judges, and you’re gonna get more corps focused stuff out of vis effect and ensemble vis, but vis perf I’ve always heard hunting guard members harder too.
Also also, like Scott Johnston has said before… this is the only place you’re gonna get corps style percussion. We’re completely different anywhere else you hear percussion, so dci and wgi owe it to the activity to make sure we are resourcing them well here.
And just like, it’s such an obviously inflammatory rule only submitted to make all the drummers shut up about p2. God forbid we want our material adjudicated and our members work acknowledged and not hidden behind a giant brass line
As someone who marched a “lower” placing World Class corps, the video feedback would be HUGE. There were multiple instances over my two years in the corps where the staff bus was delayed due to the judge meeting (and subsequently things like drivers “timing out” as a result) so much that we actually had to miss the morning block the next day because some or all of the staff was not at the housing site with the corps.
Allowing them to leave with the corps and not have to stay back would allow them to both get the feedback and not have to delay the corps membership or miss practice the next day. If the corps gets delayed it means less sleep for the members, which can also impact performance in rehearsal the next day.
I am holding out hopes for a WGI all-age bracket! I think this would work fine because A) You're never to old for an education as you said and B) WGI/indoor is much like the all-age DCI brackets since besides finals in Dayton, you only compete on weekends.
Technically, WGI World is already 'all age' as there is no age limit. Obviously not everyone is at that skill level (or wants that kind of experience), but the issue is how do you govern independent all-age groups that want to compete at an A or Open level and not have them dominate with 'world class level' members. Not impossible, but it definitely requires a lot of thinking about how to make it work.
@@jenniferrynne4323 I was referring to WGI Percussion, which caps Independent groups at 22 years old. But you are right, it would be hard to incorporate a third new bracket after independent and scholastic.
You can't simply close horn spots in. They're not like battery spots. Horn spots have to be filled by someone, otherwise you're looking at a complete drill rewrite.
The thing is that 3 busses @ 55 seats each is 165 seats. So if a Corps is marching 165 on the field, with several alternates along for the season, it would require an additional bus, and all the extra costs that would come with it. If they want, say 6, alternates, then write the show for 159 members on the field.
Every corps since the beginning of marching music has had to deal with losing a player and compensating on some level. Granted it was probably easier years ago with simpler drill, but it's still possible. When I marched we lost a couple of horn players. The director just called up some people who were staying home that summer and asked if they could fill in for the last 4 weeks or whatever. They were good marchers and we placed nicely.
It's kinda crazy a corps can't handle a drop out when most (if not all) high schools across the country have to deal with it constantly. Not to mention people joining half way through the season. If I can do it on a shoe string budget, the million dollar corps can adapt.
@@SilverBordered - And they literally have been doing this for decades. No need for contracts and all that nonsense.
@@SilverBordered I can tell that you never marched. You obviously do not know anything about what makes this activity unique. Drum Corps shows are significantly more complex and significantly more difficult than any high school out there, even more so than the type of groups that win Grand Nationals. Most top groups do not travel with alternates (there is no point of being on tour if you're not actively contributing...you're just another mouth to feed), which means that if someone needs to be replaced, they need someone with drum corps experience. This isn't high school. Members can't just be replaced with kids off the street. Drum corps is also different in that the replacements have to travel to where the corps is located, which is particularly hard if the corps is constantly traveling across the country. High schools don't have to worry about finding replacements because everyone is co-located, and if you're an educator worth their salt, you expect at least some of your kids to fail their classes and become ineligible. Drum Corps don't have that problem. Instead, they have to worry about injuries and the occasional person that quits. Corps can have emergency contact members in their back pocket, but plans can change mid-season.
So yeah, drum corps is not the same as high school band 🙄
Age-out at 21 makes sense to maintain. 21 is a common done-with-school age, which keeps the activity centered around the habits and schedules of students. Besides, the current potential age gap is already profound; adding legally-drinking adults to a bunch of high schoolers on a bus could get bad.
Maybe what they really need is separate age classes like some dance companies have. They have under 18 and 18+ categories because they recognize that the desire to dance doesn’t stop once you hit a certain age.
"adding legally-drinking adults to a bunch of high schoolers on a bus could get bad" - Been there, done that during the decades the legal drinking age was 18. Yeah, it did cause some problems.
4:28 the marchers also won’t get the full experience of running into a field judge at full speed when they get in the way 😔
10:11 Thanks for featuring Mandarins Vieux Carré in this video
Close your eyes, go back in time, and picture the 1980, 27th Lancers coming off the line playing “Crown Imperial” with a bagpiper walking in front of that fabulous rifle line! Good times😂
I’m gonna become a tenor, or possibly snare player next year wish me luck!
What corps?
good luck!
1:08 the performance order rule would benefit smaller corps so much, coming from someone who marched with BTAL in '24 since we start our tour in utah for our first week of tour we got maybe a couple hours of rehearsals in the the first just because we had to perform so early in the day! it was pretty chill though when we got to the end of the season and got to go third or fourth to last at open class finals under the lights
It wouldn’t make a difference in the end.
Anyways, here's Fnaf lore:
William Afton and Henry Emily opened a restaurant around the early 70s, named Fredbear's Family Diner, which quickly evolved into a chain of restaurants known as "Freddy Fazbear's Pizza," started in 1983, under the company of Fazbear Entertainment, Inc. At some point, both of them left the company, with an unknown individual taking over as CEO.
William was secretly a serial killer, using mascot costumes to lure, abduct, and murder kids. His motives aren't known, though widely speculated to be him trying to achieve immortality through researching the paranormal, haunted metal (known as remnant), which he created through the murders.
His first target was Charlotte Emily, the daughter of Henry. She became the Marionette, a ghost who took care of and helped awaken the other lost souls.
In 1983, William's younger son also died in an incident, at the fault of his eldest - Michael. The younger son (name unknown, BV for short) 's fate is still unknown, though often speculated to be connected to either Golden Freddy (an enigmatic spirit taking the form of a yellow bear) or helping Charlie with saving other souls. "I will put you back together" was the last thing said to BV by a debatable party, most commonly believed to be either William, Charlie, or Golden Freddy.
In 1985, William killed 2 kids, and 3 others were later connected to that incident (The Missing Children Incident, or MCI). He was arrested but released due to a lack of evidence. 4 of these kids were Gabriel, Susie, Little Jeremy, and Fritz, going on to haunt Freddy, Bonnie, Chica, and Foxy, respectively, with Susie implied to have been the first to die. The 5th is commonly believed to be named Cassidy, becoming Golden Freddy, though some think it's someone else.
In 1987, William pretended to be a security guard at a new Pizzeria and killed 5 more kids (DCI for short), who went on to be the Toy animatronics. This caused the unimportant Bite of '87.
In 1993, Mike worked a shift at the haunted original Freddy's. Later that year, the location was closed, and the company went bankrupt. He later had some sort of nightmares about it and his brother's death, likely paranormal in nature.
At some point, William went to that original Freddy's to destroy the 4 haunted robots, but ghosts manifested, and fearing for his life, he put on the costume he used to kill them. It was actually a part costume part robot hybrid, though, and due to the leaking roof, the machine snapped on him, killing him. He went on to haunt it and/or his corpse inside.
While Freddy's existed, a Sister Location called "Circus Baby's Pizza World" opened. It was a front for William to kill more kids, with the robots there made to kidnap them. It backfired when his daughter sneaked in to see Baby, and it killed her. She then haunted it. William, distraught, locked her and the other robots from there in an underground warehouse where they were rented out for parties. The other robots also got haunted somehow, likely with melted down remnant from some other kids, most likely MCI. Years later, William sent Mike there to find Elizabeth. Thinking he was William, she tricked him, and the Funtime Robots combined into one amalgam of wires, killed Mike, and used his corpse as a skin suit to escape. He quickly rotted, and they had to escape to the sewers. He repossessed his corpse thanks to remnant, though.
Around 30 years after his death (presumably 2023, though that may be debunked now), William was found by Phone Dude, who stole him and put him into his cheap horror attraction based on the Freddy's urban legends, not knowing William was inside the robot. After a few nights, the building burned down, and William escaped. There's also a good ending in that game where Charlie released the other spirits, but its canonicity is "complicated" according to Scott (FNaF creator).
Mike also had a security logbook at some point, where two ghosts, BV and presumably Cassidy (given it's not him), talked about something.
Finally, after like 50 years, Henry re-emerged and made a fake pizzeria, where he called the Funtime robots, now separated from Elizabeth, herself, and William. He also made a robot that captured Charlie. After a bunch of managers failed to collect all 4 robots, Mike came and succeeded. Henry burned them all and himself, with high temperatures now revealed to work on ghosts, apparently. Fazbear Entertainment, Inc. was supposedly closed for good.
But one ghost, very highly implied to be Golden Freddy, though argued as a random never-before-seen 6th MCI kid by some, wasn't ready to let William go, so he kept him from being released and tortured him in super nightmares.
There's a book series called Fazbear Frights which has debatable canonicity too that'd take place after this, but if canon it's basically just filler that nullifies the Vengeful Spirit nightmares thing.
After all this, Fazbear Entertainment was revived as Fazbear Entertainment, LLC. They kidnapped a guy and gaslighted him into living in a secluded fake house they made for him, where he made FNAF games, in the FNaF universe, as to make it seem like it was all just fake stories.
A VR game was later made, that was a remake of these, but some suspecious circuit boards were sent to be scanned into it, creating a paranormal, digital entity known as Glitchtrap. It appears as a man in Spring Bonnie (William's suit), acts exactly like William, knows stuff only William knows and even claims to be back, with William's catchphrase of sorts being "I always come back". After a bit of shenanigans, it manages to possess a beta tester and makes her his minion. We call her Vanny.
Vanessa, most likely Vanny, then got a desk job at Fazbear Entertainment. Fazbear Funtime Service, a program where animatronics were mass produced and sent for parties, etc. got hijacked by Glitchtrap who made them hostile. He made Vanessa infiltrate the service as a fake FazEnt representative, supposedly fix his infection, but actually just cut off anyone's access to the system other than him, and send a data packet with him to the current Pizzeria - Freddy Fazbear's Mega Pizzaplex.
In the current book series, most likely canon, there's this AI called Mimic1, which copies stuff. Many think that's actually what Glitchtrap is, just AI copying William. It's an ongoing debate. An Endoskeleton with it installed was sent to the last simulated Freddy's Henry built to burn, where it got out of control, started killing people and in the ongoing story is hunting down a group of teens. As the Pizzaplex was built on top of the simulated Freddy's, the Mimic got control over it too, but was quickly taken down. There's also this boy Gregory who ended up possessed by Glitchtrap and hacking the Pizzaplex for reasons unknown.
Now in Security Breach (possibly 2035), Gregory, out of Glitchtrap's control, had to escape being trapped in the Pizzaplex, as all the robots controlled by Glitchtrap and Vanny wanted to kill him. With the help of Glamrock Freddy, most likely haunted by someone, though it's unknown who, Greg ended up finding a newly built Springtrap in the simulated Freddy's and somehow defeating it. There's also a giant abomination of wires that resambles the Funtime amalgam down there, it took this William away.
Fnaf 6 Ending:
Connection terminated. I'm sorry to interrupt you, Elizabeth, if you still even remember that name, But I'm afraid you've been misinformed. You are not here to receive a gift, nor have you been called here by the individual you assume, although, you have indeed been called. You have all been called here, into a labyrinth of sounds and smells, misdirection and misfortune. A labyrinth with no exit, a maze with no prize. You don't even realize that you are trapped. Your lust for blood has driven you in endless circles, chasing the cries of children in some unseen chamber, always seeming so near, yet somehow out of reach, but you will never find them. None of you will. This is where your story ends. And to you, my brave volunteer, who somehow found this job listing not intended for you, although there was a way out planned for you, I have a feeling that's not what you want. I have a feeling that you are right where you want to be. I am remaining as well. I am nearby. This place will not be remembered, and the memory of everything that started this can finally begin to fade away. As the agony of every tragedy should. And to you monsters trapped in the corridors, be still and give up your spirits. They don't belong to you. For most of you, I believe there is peace and perhaps more waiting for you after the smoke clears. Although, for one of you, the darkest pit of Hell has opened to swallow you whole, so don't keep the devil waiting, old friend. My daughter, if you can hear me, I knew you would return as well. It's in your nature to protect the innocent. I'm sorry that on that day, the day you were shut out and left to die, no one was there to lift you up into their arms the way you lifted others into yours, and then, what became of you. I should have known you wouldn't be content to disappear, not my daughter. I couldn't save you then, so let me save you now. It's time to rest - for you, and for those you have carried in your arms. This ends for all of us. End communication.
It’s so sad that the corps placement order rule got shut down. That rule really addressed much of the equity issues in dci. It would be a genuine step to combat how much money helps corps. As a past member, it’s so clear how much MONEY determines success. The more money, the better the equipment, meals, talent attracted, and more. One can easily see how the top 12 just receive more sponsorships and talents. Either way, it’s a major issue within the activity. I ALWAYS performed in the sun and felt bitter when bd could warm up in the 70 degree Texas weather. Sad to see the activity rejected fairness.
Did you expect fairness out of DCI? They know who pays the bills…
@ I know the reality of it, but I hoped they would make positive changes. Evidently I should not have.
@ Don't ever look to DCI to be a competitive platform; it's not. It's slanted to be a platform to further sustain the units already benefitting. You know that. The only way things change is if someone brings more money. It's like the soccer leagues around the world, honestly.
It's no different than High School Marching Bands... the rich schools battle it out for supremacy every year. Not only do they reside in the richest School Districts, but they have the added benefit of being the wealthiest per-capita schools within those districts, with the most resources from which to pull donations. The other 97% of the schools at the big competitions are just there to fill space and pay contest fees so the competitions can keep being hosted. As long as the deciding factor year-over-year remains "available dollars", it will always be this way.
In DCI, as with High Schools...As long as the big dogs hold sway over rules and processes, there will be no 'leveling of the playing field'. The big dogs don't want it level, they need it slanted in their favor. Short of everyone who is on the outside refusing to participate, this will not change.
As much as I understand why you want to raise the age-out to theoretically allow people to join that weren't available (financially or otherwise) to march before 21, I think it would actually do the opposite and limit involvement if unchecked.
If there are 21 world-class corps with 165 spots, that's only about 3500 performers per year at the top level. Every member that ages out makes space for someone new to the activity, so a theoretical 8-year vet making a corps at 18 and aging out at 25 might be taking up the spaces that up to 4 additional members could have had in that time if they aged out at 21. While I understand that it might drive the absolute talent level and potential of the final DCI product up to allow longer stints, I think DCI is as much about the experience and journey for talented young adults as the end product and that turnover of new musicians is super important.
Maybe a middle ground might be the college sports approach with a cap on participation years. You could raise age-out to 25 but also limit membership to 4 years at the world-class level, to ensure that you're still continuously making space for the next generation of performers.
That was my thought too. Raising the age doesn't alleviate any problems. I think it enhances problems at the lower end. The top 5 will be stronger and the lower corps will lose out. The turn over in members would take much longer.
Keep it a young activity. That's the charm of the the whole thing.
You're gonna see older corps and then what's the point of the younger members?
I have always wondered why it’s not 22.
@@bethhentges It sort of is… magic birthdays and all.
Honestly I think the age out should always be 21. It’s part of what makes drum corps so impressive and unique
Meh ... I'm going to state a bit of a nonsequitur here, but I'm a 35 year old fencer. Something that has always bugged me to the hilt (pun intended) is that 16 and 18 year old fencers have something like 5 and 3 more events, respectively, than a 25 year old fencer with the same rating. There is good reason to have specific junior events but this has to be offset by things for seniors to do, or else you just have a sport where the question is if your parents have the wherewithal and cash to allow you to compete.
You should have noticed by now that that very few people in DCI under the age of 35 place any value whatsoever on what made drum corps impressive and unique.
I wish we had drum corps divisions that split into more smaller age gaps. For example:
Class #1 = Ages 14-18
Class #2 = Ages 18-21
Class #3 = Ages 21-25
Class #4 = Ages 25+
@@mountainsky4279 That seems like a good idea... almost like how in Soccer, you have Under10s etc. but its not like at age 30 you lose your competitive edge
I honestly disagree. Sure someone like me could theoretically march 9 seasons if 25 becomes the new age limit, but not everyone is as fortunate as I am and some people just aren't able to afford it until later. I think an age limit increase would just allow more people to march and expand the talent pool by a wide margin. It would also give members more opportunity to skip a summer without feeling like they're missing out on a large part of their potential experience. Which in turn could lead to healthier fundraising efforts and just make marching multiple seasons more feasible for some people.
This year’s international class is also going to be very strange. There is actually going to be more than one corp.
Calgary Stampede Showband included!
Back in the day, it was March for the corps director to release you to another corps. I got cut from a Div 1 corps in Jan. Got accepted to a Div III corps, then got called back to the Div 1 corps in March/April because the dude who took the spot never showed up again. I had to get permission from the Div III corps director to go to the Div 1 corps (dating myself) to accept the spot.
I don't know if it happened with other corps also, but the rule regarding making alternates part of the 165 member roster reads in direct response to what happened at Crown in 2018. Crown over contracted in every section by like 2 or 3 extra people and then only told them 3/4s of the way through spring training that they wouldn't be going on tour with everyone else. They refunded half of tour fees, but that's pretty pathetic. Basically those people got to do the worst month of a 3 month season and at minimum paid for an extra 1/2 a month they didn't even get.
Those two guys sound like the perfect stereotype of a color commentator. Perfect radio voice.
Old guy here. In Canada, back in the day, you couldn’t join a new corps after October (? - or something like that). I don’t know if this was a legit rule or an unwritten rule. Part of the reasoning was to support smaller corps, so their members wouldn’t up and leave after they started learning a new show, as parts were often written based on the number of players available.
There was no contract, of course, as these were kids. The corps just kept a roster and the directors would enforce it based on who you committed to at the start of the rehearsal season.
The thirst for DCI (instead of just local circuits) is what ended drum corps in Canada. Drum corps was HUGE in Ontario, and the smaller corps were feeder corps to the two DCI corps (70s). But the more and more kids that jumped ship from smaller corps, the more of these corps folded. And, eventually, there were not enough people left to feed to DCI corps.
So I think a date restriction is extremely important - and that it should be much earlier than noted in the proposed rule.
Judges should be allowed on the f field again, Or at least to the back hash. It’s insane they don’t. It’s not about safety. Rarely was an issue and they still have field judges in boa with way larger ensembles.
I think there should be a pit judge and a battery judge personally. Pit and battery are typically on opposite sides of the field, and they're doing completely different things, so it would make sense to have two different people judging them
Like, that makes sense, but it also means there would technically be two percussion judges
Good thing that I watched this video, because when I saw the TH-cam app of this video showing a cowbell with "This is illegal" on it, I thought it was referring to all the times when members of an audience watching live sports kept ringing cowbells to show their support for the team or athlete, and in any sports program, you can hear cowbells in the background being rung. I am glad it has nothing to do with the cowbells rung by audience members.
I agree with the contract issue. You sign, you stay. The only way that is going to change is if DCI starts getting into things like NIL or they come up with a way to open a transfer portal like the NCAA.
You got to pay the musicians first or give the transfers a rebate back if they do transfer.
The fact that these kids pay thousands of dollars to perform and get criticized for leaving is ridiculous.
Not if the contract stipulates that there are no refunds. Stay or pay. It's called responsibility.
14:20 CANNONS ARE BACK, BOYS
YEAHHHHHH
3:53, For my freshman year we had this one competition where the judge went like completely on the field and I bumped into him and chipped my reed really bad 😭. And that same competition, a different judge got stuck under the flyover that we had and they didn’t take points off but we still managed to get all sweeps in every category for 6A.
I think that EMC should make megatenors with one part from every tenor creation
i think i slight addition to the last one you recommended about the age-out age, while your with the corp you should not be allowed to drink alcohol so that you don’t get hungover the day before a show
My corps loved the game of Dodge Judge - we even earned a soda for everyone when a contra backed into a judge who had barely been missed in the SAME PORTION OF THE DRILL for two earlier competitions.
Thank You on talking about that age out idea. I would say yes 25 for DCI but….. you got all age Drum Corps as well. I marched Bayou City Blues Senior All age Drum & Bugle Corps in 2017 for DCI Sound Sport in San Antonio,TX And with the age of the members in the corp, it’s kind of a mix of old members who extremely know how to play and perform and it’s helping the younger members who are trying to learn the activity and perform at a higher level as well. Definitely I would debate on the age out issue if they were to bring it up but knowing DCI they won’t. But of course Sound Sport allows the smarter corps and Senior corps to perform still.
The 3rd rule would kick out dci mesquite from hosting a show.
The beauty and beast of that show site is how close you are to the front sideline from the first row seating. There isn’t 5 more feet that place could give.
I guess i would need to learn these if i wanted to do their new open class thing they're trying.
Personally I think there should be 2 percussion judges. 1 assigned to field while the second is assigned to the pit.
I personally also believe that the drum judge should be the ONLY judge on the field.
Just when you thought the priorities couldn't get more idiotic... only ONE judge for a moving, highly intricate portion of a drum corps... makes sense 😂 let's strive for no adjudication next year!
I really think upping the age out year to 25 would significantly lower the amount of younger corps members. Especially in those top tier corps. They would only take the older more mature performers.
10:45 I was placed as an alternate my age out year in a top Drum corps and I will tell you the alternate "pool" is a thing that is still used in todays drum corps. It is ruining the whole purpose of doing drum corps if you are an alternate. Me and the other alternates that where with me had gained nothing but depression, degrading of our selfs and being completely traumatized of the activity. I wish I could tell you the drum core name but I have chosen to make it anonymous, but just know that even a few years after being an alternate I still need a Medical therapy to heal my trauma.
If they must have alternates they really should have everyone in the section take turns sitting out. Then it’s like everyone gets a show day to rest and everyone gets multiple performances instead of a few people never getting to perform and hating their lives.
I marched a show where one of the color guard performers dislocated their knee in the middle of the show and had to be taken off in the middle of the show by one of our techs. They were stuck on the field for a while.
As a Canadian that won’t have the chance to march for many more years, I agree with your age out year
I’d go in a slightly different direction- two categories still, but Junior corps age out is 18. Over 18 there would be no limit. It would look like:
18+: DCI World/Open Class
U18: DCI Junior World/Open Class
One of the issues that has popped up in all-age corps is that you have long Summer trips away from home with 60 year old men and 14 year old girls. Recipe for disaster (see George Hopkins for an example).
I'd personally rather keep DCI's age-out at 21. It gets messy to have half your corps legally able to consume weed/alcohol in social settings while the other half can't/shouldn't. Probably lots of liability on the line for those in charge.
My thoughts exactly. "Think of the children" actually needs to be accounted for here. I wouldn't want a 25 year old touring with a high school kid. The difference in maturity is far to different.
I agree. And I suspect this was the primary reason to begin with.
I mean, the simplest answer to that concern about the age-outs is have a standard rule that "Members cannot consume alcohol or any illicit drug during any official Corps activity." You still have plenty of 21-year-olds on tour every year, so corps clearly deal with that concern already. I just don't think that reason is very good considering that.
@@5PctJuice you would be surprised how not well handled that concern is with _just_ the 21 year olds, especially among some of the less stable performing groups.
@@MrZepher67 We probably would not be surprised :D
IMO, it would seem that some groups hold on to their alternates simply so that their competition can't use them.
You won’t find them online published by DCI. They are considered proprietary and even though they are a nonprofit, they are aloud to have internal documentation and keep things that are proprietary from being public. I’m guessing the corps directors have access to them.
So the only rules that passed were officially allowing instruments that have been around forever and the first step in allowing woodwinds?
Bummer.
And i say this as a Friend of DCI who just dropped about $4k on tickets to Indy this year after 5he heartbreak of the Allentown rainout last year.
As far as the first rule proposal (allowing solo instruments) and Troopers having the cello soloist... I believe the rule before about which instruments are allowed included electronic instruments, which is why corps have keyboards. And the Troopers used an electronic cello, which is why it was allowed. I'm not sure how the harmonica was allowed, though
EMC, you should try and transcribe some of the drumline music from cf25. It's really groovy and I would love to see some sheet music for it.
I think the age out rule is good as is. If the limit was increased it would be harder for younger people to get into corps.
4:55 that’s my percussion director lmao
The age restriction is primarily because of 21 being drinking age. This is one of the biggest challenges in the all-age space where we have members from 14 to 60's. With all-age, we don't tour together all summer so we can all go home at the end of the day and do whatever. But when you're touring together for weeks on end, it's a member safety concern to have so many members above 21. Secondly, after you graduate college, most people don't have the time off in the summer to tour, hence why the weekend-only all-age schedule works well. Lastly, if the age limit was higher, that would take away spots from younger members as the more experienced, older folks would be more likely to fill spots.
11:25 Like in my other comment I have to refer to the World Music Contest again:
In Europe it's common to have a ladyspeaker introduce the band/corps once they are on the field in their starting position. Especially in the Netherlands this introduction also includes a short explaination of what the show is about or what the story is. This usually takes about 1 to 2 minutes max.
Moving the age out year would be amazing. I’m 24 and I never got to march because I was too busy with college. I really wish I could have, and while I probably won’t get to, it would be nice to give future generations the chance to do what I didn’t.
The beginning of the end is the rule about allowing a woodwind instrument to play a solo role in the front ensemble.
Nah, any instrument should be available.
@@Surelockohms And it will no doubt lead to allowing woodwinds on the marching field which will shape
this activity we came to know and love for its recognizable difference from our normal band experience
into just another marching band. It was bad enough when they switched to regular band brass instruments
and that led us down the road to allowing trombones and such. This has been an unpaid advertisement
from a boomer who marched 45 years ago and who still enjoys and admires the hard work put in by today's
corps members and their staffs and who is still obviously dealing with all of the changes made to an
activity that I am blessed to have participated in when it was in its pure state. Okay, now I will go and
take a nap. Ha!
@DennisJohnsonDrummer Okay boomer. You'd rather the activity die than adjust with the times.
@@Surelockohms changing to the extent of being unrecognizable and dying are effectively the same thing. you'll understand the importance of cultural preservation after everything you've ever known and loved has been pulled out from under your feet in a few years, too.
@iswm 😂 nah, I enjoy things changing because that's how life really works.
You’re right about the age-out rule, but you’re also wrong. Yes, it’s technically “21 is the absolute limit,” but there’s a rule that’s been in place for a little bit that says if you have a 22nd birthday mid-season (let’s just use my July 29th birthday as an example), then you can still march. But anything after that is a big no-no.
0:12 Did the number 15 get an update?
7:30, I agree the skill gap isn't that wide for brass, they're all functionally the same instrument with slight variations (I'm saying this as a brass musician), but for colorguard, the skill gap is as wide or wider than that of percussion. Having said that, I do agree that they need to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
6:30 Can anyone tell me what the current number of judges is?
Because this subject makes me think of the number of judges we had during the World Music Contest (WMC) in the Netherlands.
Even for a simple thing as the Marching Contest (which my band participated in) there were 7 judges:
1. Music Performance (in the skybox)
2. Music Performance Brass (on the field)
3. Music Performance Percussion (on the field)
4. Visual Performance (in the skybox)
5. Visual Performance Brass (on the field)
6. Visual Performance Percussion (on the field)
7. Drum Major Performance (on the field)
On the Show Contest there were 2 additional judges, but I forgot which aspect they judged.
3:16 hey, dan potter! our morning news guy here in tulsa on krmg!
Agree on the age out rule, no age limit. Some of us had crap high school programs and never got good enough to march DCI until later in life. Sucks to be old and no where to march.
Apparently the main way to get your hands on a rulebook is to call the DCI office and they’ll sell you one. It’s probably prohibitively expensive for an average joe to get one, but I think we would all appreciate it if you called to see if you could get your hands on one. I’d be interested to hear the rules.
Mattie (bluestars conductor) said they were not aiming for open instrumentation but for open amplification because of the troopers show was considered “legal”
Drum corps is dying a slow death thank you DCI you have ruined drum corps and turned it into marching band
“I have a fever, and the only remedy is MORE COWBELL!”
-Christopher Walken
if i get to march just one more year than i can rn, i would be in awe
Good Morning
First comment! Good work.
@@EMCproductions Thanks so much! I am so lucky to succeed this time!!! 😘
Age out at 25? Naw, it’s time to get a job at that point.
Maybe they can get around the “equal judge per caption rule” if they battery and pit different captions
When I was in marching band we where told running into a judge (Only if they where on your drill path) would get extra points for commitment haha
Same thing about drumline walking into our damn flags, we will hit you, follow your drill :p
Im old school. Get rid of electronics. DCI should be G bugles, drumlines, a pit, and color guard. Real instruments, no mics. Go back to the traditional uniforms. They dont have to be wool and hot, but the Cavaliers should wear the Cavaliers uniform
Wait, there's a 165 performer limit? Back in high school, they allow 300+ member bands, but that might just be due to them not wanting to tell teenagers in high school that they can't participate.
But also did you notice the drill for those shows usually sucked. I had some of those schools in my circuit and they could hardly move around cuz there was just so many people
@Ques4dilla Ah yeah. My band was actually 250 members, but we had some good drill. We did go to grand nationals last year, but I honestly didn't pay much attention to the bands with 300+ members.
Woodwind good, woodwind stay. Woodwind make big ge point. 😂
Mandarins when Tim Snyder was around was known for taking too many ppl. They contracted 16 tubs and cut 4 last minute
They could still do the panel equity rule if they just separated percussion into 2 captions, drumline and front ensemble. The score could be split between them so it wouldn’t change overall.
Great video! Thanks
Regarding the age rule; Drum Corps is a youth activity, not broadway. 25 is not "youth".
Hey EMC! I’ve been an audio engineer for drum corps and high schools for a few years now. I’m also a percussionist. If you ever want to get to know audio more, lmk
Moving the age-out is a big one, because I was too worried about school/college and felt I was splitting my focus. It turned into do I want to focus on my life/career path or do 'drums on field' lol.
Either have gone by for me but at least going until 23 or at 25 age-out. But I could see where spots at top corps could turn into spots being incredibly sparce and a spot opening could be hard to come by. Or....... or.... or more corps would be formed which could be real cool. (bring back Glassmen haha)
Expanding the pit for all the outboard support of guitars, keyboards, vocal mics, samplers and whatever else will include portable audio.
There’s a link to the solo instrument rule thing in the video of the news rules
I wish they would bring back the tick system - but in conjunction with the current system. Currently there are no penalties for ticks.. So they would score the normal way, but would also have a tick judge for caption.. the scores would then average out for the final score for each caption. For example if a corps performs well and scores a 98, but is full of mistakes and their tick score is a 90, their final score would be 94. This would make it so technique and execution will be just as important as the entertainment factor
I have been watching your videos for SO long, you’ve inspired me to play in the Drum-line. I was wondering if you could turn the cadence “Unfinished” high schoolers made in a school gym, and put it on drums. I’m pretty sure you’re the only one capable of doing that. It was a short video of high schoolers in 2021. I would greatly appreciate it if you could try to ❤
I had the rule book for 2024 posted to a google site at one point, but DCI forced it down as it is "priveleged and confidential".
4:54 THATS MY BAND DIRECTOR
I think 25 would be a great number! Especially with this economy. Many groups could use the members/extra money
I also agree to bringing back judges on the field they know it's a safety issue but that didn't stop them from coming back
It wasn't a safety issue for 50 years, most of which had many more corps and shows than exist today. I say this as someone who crashed into a field judge three times, all three were within 8 counts of drill. I also saw a field percussion judge take a rifle to the face from a guard girl half his size, and it's far more dangerous to be the judge in that situation.
The second I saw the rule change I though... slide whistle solo?
Irish Pennywhistle