Herculaneum Scrolls Reveal Plato's Burial Location
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New research into the Herculaneum Scrolls, a collection of more than 1,800 papyrus scrolls found in the preserved ruins of Herculaneum, near Pompeii, entombed by the volcanic ash of the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius in 79 AD, has revealed where Plato the great Athenian philosopher was buried. Where exactly was Plato's Academy, and what is a μουσεῖον?
SOURCES:
Lo ‘sguardo’ tecnologico legge i papiri carbonizzati
www.cnrweb.tv/lo-sguardo-tecn...
Greek Schools
viewer.greekschools.eu
Renovation Of The Platonic Academy: This Is The New Underground Museum Of Athens
www.thearchaeologist.org/blog...
Pioneering edition of Philodemus’ History of the Academy reveals 20 % more content
cordis.europa.eu/article/id/2...
Papiri carbonizzati dal Vesuvio raccontano la storia della filosofia greca e di Platone: la ricerca
www.pisatoday.it/cronaca/papi...
La diagnostica per immagini e la linguistica computazionale svelano i segreti dei Papiri di Ercolano - 23 aprile 2024
www.fileli.unipi.it/2024/04/1...
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Intro and outro music: Overture of Die Zauberflöte (The Magic Flute) by Mozart
#vesuvius #latin #greek
![ไม่ต้องมีที่ที่ให้ฉันอยู่ แต่ขอแค่มีฉันอยู่ก็พอ (Spaceless) - getsunova [SHORT FILM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MuT0d_cvJkc/mqdefault.jpg)
>on his deathbed
>complains about the music being played
>refuses to elaborate
>dies
He complained just enough for us to get a substantial glimpse of the musical scene though. He said something like "those damned kids and their polyphony, in my times we only did monody" and then died.
Socrates' musical death bed experience reminds me of a similar story concerning the greatest of French baroque era composers Jean Phillipe Rameau who was noted for his fussiness and extreme perfectionism. As he lay dying a group of monks were invited into the room to chant the prayers for the dying and Rameau is reported to severely criticize one of the monks for his very poor singing abilities.
@@kaloarepo288 And to think he was not just one of the leading composers but probably the most important musical theorist that addressed the foundations of harmony and the natural properties of sound that give us tonal music, since Pythagoras. It's like Newton making a joke about how fat your momma is, it's a legendary burn.
I regularly go in Academia, in Athens and do reading and writing and sometimes physical exercise like running and stretching. It is a wonderful place to be, the energy and the history of it. Μέρος για πολυμαθείς.
You’re doing exactly what they were there for
Really excited to learn what the scrolls will reveal in the future. Hope you'll cover that in the future, too!
Thanks, my friend! Yes, I am closely monitoring the news of decipherments on a weekly basis.
I had a 3 year old Ecolinguist episode with Luke pop up and I thought, "it's been a while since I've seen any Polymathy content show up in my feed." So I came by and the time counter literally had "30 seconds" on it. Luke must have been using The Force.
Trust your feelings! You know them to be true.
He said the word autodidactic, I heard that word 4 times today. Weird af
Hi, Luke! I write to you again, since you probably weren't notified my other comment. Indeed you can find the newly deciphered text on the Greek schools website. E.g., "Kol. 2 PHerc. 1021", lines 31-33: «ἐτάφη δὲ καὶ Πλάτων ἐν τῶι κήπωι παρὰ τὸ Μουσεῖον». The other passages you mentioned are in the next columns (Kol. 3 etc.).
Grazie, Riccardo! Questo sarà nel prossimo video.
Cannot wait when Herculaneum Scrolls will challenge and change our perception of Graeco-Roman polytheism. To say that there is a treasure trove of knowledge is extreme understatement!
They will prove Gods exist and they will destroy monotheism ahahah
@@shweshwa9202 lol, lmao, no
honestly doubt it, European polytheism is analogous to Indian polytheism, it’s pretty normal stuff that we’ve known about forever
@@jeremias-serus partly, PaleoEuropean beliefs likely had a great influence on the European varieties just like India was influenced by native cults and beliefs. Besides that how much do we know about mystery cults?
@@spelcheak Ever since Alexander the Great, there's been significant cross-culture borrowing between Greek philosophy and Buddhism.
La decifrazione di quei papiri carbonizzati e fragilissimi è uno dei grandi trionfi dell'intelligenza umana.
Sto d'accordo. Stentavo a crederci anch'io.
While it makes an interesting thumbnail and I am amazed that anything could be read from those carbonized remnants let's not forget that what was read was written almost 3 centuries after Plato's death. Accurate? Who knows - we have no knowledge of Philodemus' sources. I believe that we are living through a golden age of discovery of Ancient Rome & Greece and channels like yours are instrumental in the dissemination of knowledge that otherwise would be buried in academic papers. Εκτιμώ πολύ τις προσπάθειές σας. Ευχαριστώ.
They're scanning them now in a way that is similar to an mri, its unnecessary to even unroll them which is an amazing jump in technology and soon all of these scrolls found will be available to the world 🙌
Using CT (Computerised Tomography) technology. CTs are just serial X-rays (tomography) that then are analysed via computer. The images are stacked rather like if you have a Connect 4 game with background in red and ink in yellow. Each layer is scanned horizontally on each other ( say 3 red, 1 yellow and three red)
This is then repeated in each layer. When the image is rotated and viewed through each vertical slice you will have a stripe of yellow on a red background.
Thank you, in my ignorance I never heard of Axiothea of Phlius, her tale explains the nick names of the female students of the Master Epicurus. Very enlightening 😀 Cheers
I can just imagine the contents of the Herculaneum Scrolls: 1 loaf bread, 1 dozen eggs, 1 1/2 librae pork, ...
The Romans had no word for "1 dozen". Actually the word "dozen" is derived from Latin "duodecim", meaning twelve. It would be just 12 eggs
thank you for sharing so much of your study and your father's work. that was a kindness for us.
Valde tristis Paltus pro me fuit. Tatum de amore sripsit sed nescimus si Plato semel amavit vel amatus fuit. Nihil de uxore sua scriptum fuit.
It's an exciting time for all burnt scroll lovers for sure! Hope they streamline their publishing a bit so we can get these actual texts out for us to read. Fingers crossed it doesn't become another dead sea scroll debacle where someone's ego keeps them hidden from public view for years!
I love the B-roll/stock footage in this. Really takes me into the story
This is a exceptionally great find, how fantastic 👍
We need to conduct an archeological dig in the garden of the academy NOW
Hey, Luke, have you considered making a video of how Gaudeamus Igitur, the "Gaudy", that is sung regularly in not a few European universities in festive occasions, should sound like if it were done with proper Latin emphasis of the one before last syllable? Nowadays when we sing it the emphasis are all over the place. You can also make a historical overview of it while you make it. This song is one part of Latin that students of all areas get acquainted with. Excellent video by the way. Really, your content has repeatedly inspired me to try to learn Latin and Greek in my spare time. One of the most high quality TH-cam channels I know.
This is amazing. Thank you for all this information ❤️
You're just the best. Love my Ltin years in high school. Gratias tibi ago
Wow. This is a really great Discover.👍
me encantan tus videos, i love your videos, i find inspiring people still taliking about real culture, i think we need philosophy more than never in this society... as an engineer now and teacher in the past, we need to eliminate the shortcuts, the necesity of solving a problem with no effort .. if i cannot solve it in 1 min i quit, that is what society is leading to us , we need history, latin, greek, maths...we need to sometimes do nothing, relax, we need classical culture more than ever...
Thank you so much for your generous donation! I think you'll like the next video: I found the passages, so I will recite them in Greek!
excellent work by the people who research the scrolls!
kijetesentakalu tonsi li lanpan ala lanpan e soko?
@@endormaster2315 mi tonsi. mi lanpan e soko ale
@@endormaster2315 mi tonsi. mi lanpan e soko ale.
Toki a :)
@@mmcworldbuilding5994 toki a! sina sona ala sona e toki ni?
Cool. Thanks for sharing.
heus, lucī! just stopping by to let you know i'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel!! hopefully only two more to go (though it's been a rocky road to get here!)
might have a look at latin uncovered, it looks pretty fun 👀
I love this stuff!
Excellent episode and very cool history lesson. :D
Thanks, Meg!
It sounds great!
Another excellent video as always, although I have a minor note. The etymology of Diogenes Laertius for the place name Academy has been corroborated by the discovery in 1966 of a somewhat early boundary inscription. It was found in situ near the SE corner of the intersection of Aimonos and Tripoleos streets in the modern-day Academy suburb of Athens. The text runs simply hό]ρος τες hεκαδεμείας in finely carved late 6th to early 5th century BC Attic letters. The early date bolsters the view that the original name was indeed derived from hεκάς + δήμος (away from the "demos", meaning the άστυ proper in this context). The place name makes more sense if this is indeed its actual derivation. The site of the ancient Academy was far from the city and conveniently located in a quiet and isolated suburb with a well-known Gymnasium which has been excavated. It would have been ideal for Plato's philosophical undertaking and the establishment of his "philosophical school" (see John Travlos (1971), Pictorial Dictionary of Athens pp. 42 for further information and bibliography).
As for Philodemos' text on the History of the Academy, the publication of the new readings is still pending (probably nothing will appear before 2026). So far the Italian scholars have made only preliminary announcements to the press.
Very interesting. I have seen the report by the BBC on this new discovery several days before, but your assessment and further elaboration adds details I've been unaware of. Hopefully, in the future new fascinating discoveries will be unraveld of the remaining scrolls; makes you really wonder and dream which lost texts may hide beneath Mount Vesuvius' ash remains.
I love your voice 💗 wow. I always recognize it when you pronounce things for the metatron's channel too. So interesting hopefully they will release the translation soon
That opening orchestral Ta Da is I believe the opening of Mozart's Opera The magic Flute if I am not mistaken ......yup it is indeed .....
Hopefully the scrolls can leave us a hint as to where Alexander the great might be.
I think the barbaric christians had his body destroyed.
@@saxogrammatikus4195 I don't think so. I heard rumours he could have been hidden inside a church somewhere in Italy, others say it could still be in Egypt or it could have been transferred to Greece at the Amphipolis tomb since that tomb was build for a great noble leader. Either way I'm excited to find out what other secrets these scrolls hold.
Gratias tibi.
Wowsers!
super cool stuf
Holy Shit!!! Can we go on a Plato Hunt
Mememe
01:00 Looking forward to the love interest getting lowered into mount vesuvius
It’s actually better than that. Haha. There is definitely a reason I used scenes from Temple of Doom.
When he's in Athens, Alex Cristofourou sometimes walks that park in his daily news analysis.
Ðank you 😅 super interesting, hope you get hold of the text sometime too!
I found it! I'll be reciting it in tomorrow's video.
@@polyMATHY_Luke amazing! 😃
And it could be another hidden not yet discovered area in that villa and that's amazing.
SULLAAAAAAA!!😤
Edit: I should dig out my collection of Plato's letters, been a while since I read those thoroughly. Interesting, even tho we now believe most are likely fake, but would be fascinating to see a deep dive into the original Greek text (hint, hint) at least some of which may actually be authentic...
The story of Plato's death reminds me of the story of Buddy Rich's death. As Buddy Rich was being prepped for surgery, a nurse asked if there were anything he couldn't take. "Country music," he answered. He died on the operating table
So does this mean that Socrates might be buried in the same area?
Did Pausanius go in-depth on his description of the Academy?
Wow very interesting.
If the papyrus talk the truth we shall find out
You should make a video about the latin used in the song Lilium, the opening of the anime Elfen Lied
Great video! If I could give 1000 time like, I would.
🤞CLAUDIUS'S HISTORIES NEXT🤞CLAUDIUS'S HISTORIES NEXT🤞
6:35 My condolences about your father. I hope your family's doing alright.
I have to say, I am skeptical this is the true location. This was written centuries after the fact, and there is a pretty long tradition in the Greek world of having stories about last words, death scenes, funeral scenes, and burial sites of famous people.
All of philosophy is merely a footnote to Plato.
Is your “Amazon Alexis” REAL?! I mean,does it actually understand Latin & respond in Latin? If so, HOW DID YOU DO THAT?!?!
Brilliant video, brother. TH-cam s a bit of a corporate CLOACA.
Plato moments before dying: Girl you ain't got no rhythm!
🤯
I have a language question? Do the majority of people speak Albanian in Sicily? A friend told me they do. If so I was wondering if it was spoken when Plato was sold into slavery there?
Ehi ciao, lo so che potrebbe sembrare egoista, però mi sarebbe molto d'aiuto un piccolo suggerimento su come approcciare le versioni di latino visto che ho un compito tra pochi giorni. Can someone of you help me?
For those who have ears to hear, this was a wonderful video. I can see it now, a bunch of men hanging out naked, doing gymnaistics, philosophising, playing music. 😂. Nice cult. Id join. Oh i forgot about the drugs 😂
When will you start learning Gothic, the grandmother of our languages, English, German, Dutch, Scandinavian etc..
Maybe now we will find the Platohedron.
I did know he was sold into slavery actually. Funny that Classicists with a liberal bent will attempt to cope with the fact that their beloved Plato's ideal Republic, Kallipolis, is not exactly a liberal democracy by saying it is _only_ an allegory for the mind and not meant to be literally taken as political in any sense.
His misadventure in Sicily and how Aristotle interpreted his work betray that distortion.
Wait he was?
Plato was an aristocratic rich boy, was he not? So getting sold into slavery was more like getting kidnapped and held for ransom wasn’t it? I mean, I don’t pretend to know how much humiliation was intended to be inflicted upon a captured aristocrat but surely there’s a big difference between the enslaved aristocrat and the kind of men sent to suffer and die in their thousands (like the ethnic Healots … or anyone sent to work in the Athenian silver mines) doing hard physical labor doing resource extraction or agricultural work?
And you said Plato was in Syracuse confronting a “tyrant” when he was captured? 8:13 I don’t pretend to know the details of this particular situation, but I do know that our understanding of “tyrant” and the meaning of “tyrant” in the ancient world were quite different.
A tyrant in the ancient world was usually NOT a reactionary conservative autocrat trying to keep a firm grip on already established aristocratic or monarchic or oligarchic power. That’s just a normal oligarchic leader.
A “tyrant” in the ancient world quite often was associated with characteristics we today would associate with a POLITICAL REVOLUTIONARY; tyrants were often despised by the current ruling aristocracy since the new tyrant consolidated his power by CANCELING DEBTS OWED by the commoners to the current ruling aristocracy or monarchy, and would quite often establish a new power base by dispossessing the current ruling oligarchy and redistribute land or wealth in order to establish economic allegiance to him as the new leader.
So … while we today hear “tyrant” and think mostly “established king or monarchy or aristocracy or ruler who has overstepped his or their traditional established limits on power and is using illegitimate force and illegal means to control the population”, the ancients would not have thought of a “tyrant” exclusively in this way.
For the ancients a “tyrant” was just as often a welcome change to the common people of an ancient city state as a means of restoring a balanced economic system that had become imbalanced through excessive debt accumulation and excess concentration of land or assets or wealth in the tiny ruling oligarchy or monarch.
So if Plato was indeed captured confronting a “tyrant” in Syracuse, he might in fact not been fighting for economic justice on behalf of the little people (as we would assume when we hear this today), but, in fact, Plato might have been fighting an economic populist revolutionary “tyrant”, who had been seeking to topple Plato’s friends who represented an existing wealthy oligarchy? More information is needed. It’s important to bear in mind though that Plato was not in favor of democracy and tended to side with firmly hierarchical rule and was himself from an aristocratic family and tended to see the world as aristocrats do; some people are just better “kinds” of people and are meant to rule. And he was one of them.
A learned and intelligent commenter. What a rare sight today! I was pleased to read your considerations. Thanks!
I didn’t think the helots were a tribe or ethnicity. I was always under the impression that helot was more like a caste and basically synonymous with slave.
And yes, even those of us with a liberal bent do understand that Plato’s ideal republic was a philosopher king and benevolent dictator. Even back then, people knew democracy was messy and fantasized how all it would take is one good guy with all the power to do whatever he wanted instantly. In modern times, right-leaning academics would say Singapore’s Lee Kuan Yew regime was a benevolent dictatorship.
is he still alive
BREAKING NEWS FROM ANCIENT ROME
Che ridere! Sto morendo! 😂😂😂😂😂😂
This Play-Doh guy must have been very important lol
Women were allowed on Plato's cool school? Are you sure? Cheers
Yes! Which was truly remarkable for his time. Axiothea of Phlius is probably Plato's best known female student. Although there is some indication that female students may have been expected to dress like men during their time at the Academy.
Why did the Romans destroy the academy?
Sulla fought the Kingdom of Pontus under Mithridates VI, Athens allied with him and therefore was besieged and then sacked and devastated by his legions
It is called power and politics only the ruler is intelligent and no other should outsmart his power schools teach systems
@@VivasPuertorriquenos This is nonsense. If this is true there would be no intellectuals in every empire
@@ARSamogin I see. Any reason why it wasn't rebuild?
are you gonna dig it or wat
Next to Jimmy Hoffa's?
"Theseus kidnapped Helen of Troy". Aye you supposed to teach ?
Plato wasn't as cool as Diogenes of Sinope. I love that man's total contempt for society and people's hypocrisy.
I think not.
Stop messing with his corpse. He is dead!
Playdough 🤭
You look like the nostalgia critic
Ego Muslim est
Volo aliquid dicere Arabes sumus Et lingua nostra lingua in summo adhuc erit Volo dicere linguam tuam etiam linguam pulchram esse, et similis linguae nostrae, sive credis sive non Omnino non pauci sumus, sed plures sumus quam tu Mecca et Medina vide Deinde vide in Vaticano Et Eboracum et Novum Quotidie sol venit super Meccae et Medina Deinde venit Vaticanum da nobis lucem Et da libertatem Vaticanam Allah non est deus praeter eum solem, lunam, noctem et diem creavit Et fecit duas terras et septem caeli Non potes deserere caelum inferius nee de terra que est partita pro hominibus et jinn Limites habeo quos inhaeremus sive placet sive non Et Allah ipse est rex regum ipse est omnium Dominus et non est alius Deus Nonne vides firmam quam non habes, nec penetrabis? An non vidisti?Ego te invitare ad Islam Testimonium pronuntio Quaere illum in TH-cam Et Arabica didicerunt Et lege Qur'an Tunc cognoscetis veritatem Est alveus vocatus mundi sensus et intellectus Scribere in Arabic Et pax super eos qui sequuntur
سأكتب عدة قصائد لكم باللغة العربية
مع أسئلة فلتجيبوها
١) هل هذا منظوركم ؟
دا ددا دادادا
مولود جديد
أهلا بك في الحياة الدنيا
أهلا بك في هذا العالم
عالم الظلم و الجور
أهلا بك في الأرض البور
إن كنت تريد الفرح و السرور
و تريد الورق المزيون
فاستمع لنصيحتنا
العب و أنت صغير و امرح
تعلم منا و في الضلال اسرح
لعبت؟
الآن
ذاكر بجِد
انجح بفخر
وقعتَ في الفخ
البس ملابسا أنيقة
و امش تعال إلى الحديقة
"حديقة الحيوان !"
ماذا تريد أيها الشاب
'أريد وظيفة'
أرأيت؟!
الآن
ذاكر بجِد
اعمل بكِد
صدّق بجَد
لا تفكر
سنفكر عنك
تعال إلينا
و اطلب الوظيفة
لتعمل لدينا
بين يدينا
و إليك أوراقا
تردها إلينا
إن كنتَ تريد المال
فسنهديه إليك
أوراقا بين يديك
تفيدها كالأغلال
ستردها إلينا
و إلا
ستكون أسيرا لدينا
تطيع إشارات يدينا
و إن رددتها
سنحرقها
إمتاع عينينا
احذر من الذئاب و إلا جعلتك لها فريسة
و احتم بين حضن الرعاة
و لتكن أضحية لذيذة
، ما رأيكم ! أليس مَن منظوره هكذا شخص سخيف ؟!،
Seems that complaining is an old greek national sport
Aristotle>Plato.
Nahh. Mysticism>>>
Diogenes < Aristotle < Plato < Socrates
Lets leave the comparsion and enjoy each one of them
@@VivasPuertorriquenosupdoot!! Diogenes is wholesome chungus
Plato is a fictional character created during the Renaissance. There's no evidence whatsoever he ever existed.His texts? On goat skin? Papyrus? Lol yeah right
Here is Cicero talking about Plato, in his own words: latin.packhum.org/search?q=%23plato
Cicero lived in the 1st century BC, more than a millennium before the Renaissance.
Move your in my light 🐒🦍🐵☕🦴 diogenise say