When I was a kid I got the old "winners never quit and quitters never win" pseudo intellectual psychobabble. Experience has taught me that often the opposite is true. Sometimes quitting is the ONLY way to win.
Told my kid (age 20) to quit his job without one lined up. I have his back while he finds something better. I cannot support him in an endeavor set up to hinder him. It is not failure to seek fair employment. I’m just thankful I am able to do this for him because my parents booted me out at 16
An observation to that: They made it much harder in the US to quit a job especially those with mid to heigher wages. They bind your pension to it, maybe stock options, they bind your healthcare to it, benefits like parental leave, the place you live, the school your kids can go to and the quality of the schools resulting from it. All designed to "keep you locked in" and potentially to accept worse conditions, harder requests and maybe not as much wage because you fear to lose all of those benefits. And it doesn't end there. The welfare system is designed to make it hard for you to be without work. So quitting is always connected to a risk when you cannot immediatly start another job because there is barely a social net. This also keeps you more docile to your superiors in fear of loosing your job and a chilling effect of you asking for stuff.
There are other aspects to the "welfare system," which more accurately is called the dept of social services & social security/ disability, that most people are unaware of. For example, if you are disabled because of mental illness, they can & will review your case & if you're doing better than you were before treatment, in addiction, etc, they often will declare you cured & kick you off social services. If you go through the hearing process, & you point out that if they cut off your only income, you will be immediately homeless, won't be able to access your therapy or medications, you will lose access to food, etc, none of those facts go into the criteria of deciding if you should stay on disability. It doesn't matter that you would go from functioning to total crisis, which would force you to just reapply for social security. One of the things that makes me angriest about the GOP's lies & disinformation is that they claim the whole system makes people lazy & its a great life to live in poverty, but we can't even deal with the legitimate issues with the system because their party isn't interested in helping people.
At my job before retirement, we refer to all those benefits at our job as the golden handcuffs. I took early retirement, best decision I ever made. Not as much money, but in the end, time is really the most important thing.😉
I feel like it also connects with people who remain in unhealthy relationships. Our decisions are often how we identify ourselves. We identify as a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a grocery store employee or an entrepreneur. Quitting these things (good or bad) means giving up a piece of our identity.
As a 52 year old white woman in Alabama, I'm more than happy that young people are not doing the "loyalty thing" as I did. It was a mistake and I stayed a lot longer than I should've at several jobs in healthcare over the years.
💯%!! If you're thinking about quitting, odds are that one or more of your coworkers are feeling the same way! The last time I quit my job I sent an email detailing my reason's to all of my coworkers and it triggered a mass exodus with 11 out of 15 of my coworkers quitting!
I think this might be more of an American phenomena. We don't have this attitude in Scandinavia - that someone should either make themself rich and succesful or live in utter misury with themselwes to blame. In our society, there is more choice: it is perfectly fine to have a succesful career, but it is also fine not to: the choice is yours, and either way, you will always have the basic of what you need. I think the phenomena you describe are typical of the American "success culture" in a society who lacks social welfare the way we have in Europe.
As an American expat living in Spain for the past 20 years, I truly wish more of my compatriots could fathom the truth of your comment. Unfortunately, due to the constant brainwashing of our sadistic, puritanical success culture, the life you describe in Scandinavia strikes them as science fiction. Kind of like North Koreans, they can't believe such quality of life is possible on earth.
People at the top of the corporate hierarchy need two kinds of people: (1) those who do the work and (2) those who limit the upward mobility of those who do the work. This is the crucible of the perseverance mythos.
Generally speaking, it takes quite some courage to say NO before you get a grasp of your YES. There are no maximes in this process. Some people find to give their best within the community, others are bound to strictly follow their individual way. Aside from neuro- and sociological implications, consider the position of Uranus in the individual astrological chart. Thanks for the interview, this was refreshing!
I’ve been dreaming about quitting for years and now I’m beginning to setup my own business and can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I’m hope to quit my job by the end of October.
One of the first jobs I had I worked at the place for 2 years and the project shut down because the parent company wanted to outsource to save money. This has happened at a few companies that I worked at and I found it weird that I was supposed to stick with a crappy job but my employer could just up and close everything down when it became convenient for them. I don't really hold that work ethic anymore. If it is unsustainable for me, I will let my employer know and move on.
I wonder if the stigma of quitting in the anglosphere also has something to do with the language. Other languages have different words for ending your job and "giving up" which gives quitting a different undertone. You not see it as "giving up" but as finding a better opportunity or as said ending one path to begin another.
For some of us, who are addicts in recovery, we must quit out old behaviors, patterns, beliefs, coping tools, history, & so much more, to ever change our lives into a more healthy & successful life.
Sometimes you just have to say to yourself “You have no choice, pursuing a different career path is the only way forward and much better then the alternative which is really just more of the same. And I hate it.”.
Looking back, I can see I kept at a task even though quitting was the better option. I should have quit relationships when they were not working and were never going to work. Instead, I stayed and the inevitable breakup took longer and was worse for us both.
@@TuckerCarlson-wi7xs BS. All you're doing is trolling people. You're not fooling anyone. All you're doing is embarrassing yourself. For the record, nobody with any common sense fears Trump. Why do you fear president Joe Biden?
The regret from not quitting (or quitting) is fallacious because you can never go back in time to retest the alternate decision. You have to rely on supposition which tends to be a biased fantasy of an alternate reality. People who fail mire themselves in regret.
This is a truly exciting area of study, and Ms. Keller is a brilliant, engaging woman. As an editor, I would urge Ms. Keller to pronounce “perseverance” properly, because it is a key word in her world. Thanks for this interview!
These attitudes demonstrate the collectivist, anti-individualist nature of our times, especially in the U.S.. People are raised to think that they must justify their lives to every random idiot in their proximity. I was raised, in Canada's wilderness north, in a different way, in a fundamentally individualist ethos. If I make a life or work decision, that decision IS NOBODY ELSE'S DAMN BUSINESS. I don't have to answer to anyone for my life choices. Keep on a job, quit the job, spend my time studying physics or smoking weed.... nobody other than me has any justifiable privilege of poking their nose into my affairs or instructing me on my choices. I lived briefly in the U.S. and couldn't stand it, because everybody, everywhere kept telling me how to live MY life, and even telling me what I should think about God, the Afterlife, Sin, Salvation, etc., as if THEY were in charge of me. Not to mention their aggressively trying to control my sexual and romantic choices, how I dressed, what I read, listened to or watched. I was surrounded by control freaks endlessly trying to manipulate me, everyone of them loudly certain of their particular program for other people's lives. It was like living in the Soviet Union. I moved back to Canada where people generally mind their own business.
We live in a society of trade. Trading on products, services, labor, and capital. If you lack these things, you won’t do well materially. Most people have their labor and skills to fall back on as their only thing to trade. So if you quit and stop working all together, you shouldn’t be surprised that you will have less.
My last job I was in charge of a program that’s been around for over 40 years in federal government. Military management got involved and fuck it up. I tired to keep it working. I departed because of this. The program went to shit after I departed. My old boss said they blamed me and going back to how it was because It Work🙃.
The Great American lie is "Work hard and you'll succeed." This lie only benefits the people you work hard for. There's an old meem online. It shows a photograph of a beautiful mansion with a caption that reads..."If you work really hard, one day your boss could live here." Luck, Connections, and a Leg Up are what makes someone successful in life. Hard work is only one tiny fraction of the success equation. Luck = how you were born, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, health. Connections = You have a pathway laid out for you by another person. Doors are opened for you. Leg Up = Family members giving a loan to help you start your business.
I have a minor cavill at 12:12 - single-cell organisms don't have brains, although, amazingly, some of them can apparently make choices. (I guess that might come down to defining what we mean by choice.)
Her point with Edison was crap. She referred to his "quitting" working an individual plant for synthetic rubber yet trying 19,000! That is opposite of quitting. 8:10
4:00 _“People are born black or brown…”_ -“Brown” is not an official category and I wish ppl would stop using it. It only serves to make a complicated issue unnecessarily more complex. Also, there is no inherent social or economic disadvantage to being born female.
It's nice to hear someone advocate the merits of suicide for once. Is that not just the pen ultimate of cost-benefit analysis and choosing quitting as the best option?
What nonsense. Perseverance was correctly seen as a virtue in all walks of life and has nothing to do with blaming poor people in a capitalist society.
If you quit your job because something better is available, that's not going to be looked at negatively. If you quit because you're an entitled crybaby who wants more money without having to do more work, people are rightfully going to look at that negatively.
@@dynamicdave2647 My point doesn't change. You quit. Whether for your own good or not. That means someone had to cover the failure you created by quitting. I left one job for another in my life, but I never left a job unfinished. Whatever my assignment was, I finished it before I left it. No one lost. When you think of a "quitter" , you're usually referring to someone that couldn't get it done and just gave up
@@billyjohnson1977 Maybe it has to do something with the company they work for. The company you work for can be sh*t, maybe the company quit on their employers. It works both ways you know!
When I was a kid I got the old "winners never quit and quitters never win" pseudo intellectual psychobabble. Experience has taught me that often the opposite is true. Sometimes quitting is the ONLY way to win.
Told my kid (age 20) to quit his job without one lined up. I have his back while he finds something better. I cannot support him in an endeavor set up to hinder him. It is not failure to seek fair employment. I’m just thankful I am able to do this for him because my parents booted me out at 16
There r exceptions to almost any rule of thumb. There r many good reasons to quit early to change course
16? That must’ve been rough. I can’t even imagine having to be on my own at 16. Glad to hear you can help your kid.
I'm appreciating these interviews; still topical but refreshing. Good way to round out your program.
An observation to that: They made it much harder in the US to quit a job especially those with mid to heigher wages. They bind your pension to it, maybe stock options, they bind your healthcare to it, benefits like parental leave, the place you live, the school your kids can go to and the quality of the schools resulting from it. All designed to "keep you locked in" and potentially to accept worse conditions, harder requests and maybe not as much wage because you fear to lose all of those benefits.
And it doesn't end there. The welfare system is designed to make it hard for you to be without work. So quitting is always connected to a risk when you cannot immediatly start another job because there is barely a social net. This also keeps you more docile to your superiors in fear of loosing your job and a chilling effect of you asking for stuff.
There are other aspects to the "welfare system," which more accurately is called the dept of social services & social security/ disability, that most people are unaware of. For example, if you are disabled because of mental illness, they can & will review your case & if you're doing better than you were before treatment, in addiction, etc, they often will declare you cured & kick you off social services. If you go through the hearing process, & you point out that if they cut off your only income, you will be immediately homeless, won't be able to access your therapy or medications, you will lose access to food, etc, none of those facts go into the criteria of deciding if you should stay on disability. It doesn't matter that you would go from functioning to total crisis, which would force you to just reapply for social security. One of the things that makes me angriest about the GOP's lies & disinformation is that they claim the whole system makes people lazy & its a great life to live in poverty, but we can't even deal with the legitimate issues with the system because their party isn't interested in helping people.
At my job before retirement, we refer to all those benefits at our job as the golden handcuffs. I took early retirement, best decision I ever made. Not as much money, but in the end, time is really the most important thing.😉
I feel like it also connects with people who remain in unhealthy relationships.
Our decisions are often how we identify ourselves.
We identify as a boyfriend or a girlfriend or a grocery store employee or an entrepreneur.
Quitting these things (good or bad) means giving up a piece of our identity.
As a 52 year old white woman in Alabama, I'm more than happy that young people are not doing the "loyalty thing" as I did. It was a mistake and I stayed a lot longer than I should've at several jobs in healthcare over the years.
💯%!! If you're thinking about quitting, odds are that one or more of your coworkers are feeling the same way! The last time I quit my job I sent an email detailing my reason's to all of my coworkers and it triggered a mass exodus with 11 out of 15 of my coworkers quitting!
Well done.
@@OuterGalaxyLounge Thank You! 😉
I think this might be more of an American phenomena. We don't have this attitude in Scandinavia - that someone should either make themself rich and succesful or live in utter misury with themselwes to blame. In our society, there is more choice: it is perfectly fine to have a succesful career, but it is also fine not to: the choice is yours, and either way, you will always have the basic of what you need. I think the phenomena you describe are typical of the American "success culture" in a society who lacks social welfare the way we have in Europe.
Well said!
Same in The Netherlands, Belgium etc. Work to live, not live to work.
As an American expat living in Spain for the past 20 years, I truly wish more of my compatriots could fathom the truth of your comment. Unfortunately, due to the constant brainwashing of our sadistic, puritanical success culture, the life you describe in Scandinavia strikes them as science fiction. Kind of like North Koreans, they can't believe such quality of life is possible on earth.
People at the top of the corporate hierarchy need two kinds of people: (1) those who do the work and (2) those who limit the upward mobility of those who do the work. This is the crucible of the perseverance mythos.
This is one of the most interesting topics I have ever heard.
Generally speaking, it takes quite some courage to say NO before you get a grasp of your YES. There are no maximes in this process. Some people find to give their best within the community, others are bound to strictly follow their individual way. Aside from neuro- and sociological implications, consider the position of Uranus in the individual astrological chart. Thanks for the interview, this was refreshing!
I’ve been dreaming about quitting for years and now I’m beginning to setup my own business and can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I’m hope to quit my job by the end of October.
One of the first jobs I had I worked at the place for 2 years and the project shut down because the parent company wanted to outsource to save money. This has happened at a few companies that I worked at and I found it weird that I was supposed to stick with a crappy job but my employer could just up and close everything down when it became convenient for them. I don't really hold that work ethic anymore. If it is unsustainable for me, I will let my employer know and move on.
attacking people for quitting is weird, why should I stick with a job that is bad for me?
@@TuckerCarlson-wi7xs why do people fear demagogues?
@@brb__bathroom Don't bother, TuckerCarlson-wi7xs is just a troll and maybe a bot.
@@TuckerCarlson-wi7xs None of us fear a bot like you.
@@Brozius2512 This, they used to be amagamerican and copy pasted star wars quotes with magat flavoring. Report the thing and move on.
People want to reinforce justification for their own bad decisions and want company!
I wonder if the stigma of quitting in the anglosphere also has something to do with the language. Other languages have different words for ending your job and "giving up" which gives quitting a different undertone. You not see it as "giving up" but as finding a better opportunity or as said ending one path to begin another.
For some of us, who are addicts in recovery, we must quit out old behaviors, patterns, beliefs, coping tools, history, & so much more, to ever change our lives into a more healthy & successful life.
Sometimes you just have to say to yourself “You have no choice, pursuing a different career path is the only way forward and much better then the alternative which is really just more of the same. And I hate it.”.
Welcome back, David. 💙🥳👏🥰😍🍾
Looking back, I can see I kept at a task even though quitting was the better option. I should have quit relationships when they were not working and were never going to work. Instead, I stayed and the inevitable breakup took longer and was worse for us both.
“The End” is when it ceases being healthy for me, humanity, and/or the planet. If it increases suffering, it should immediately be terminated.
welcome back David
There is nothing wrong with quitting to pursue new ventures. As long as your choices move you forward every one should support you.
Good to see David back!
@@TuckerCarlson-wi7xs - Why do you keep asking the same question?
@@TuckerCarlson-wi7xs BS. All you're doing is trolling people. You're not fooling anyone. All you're doing is embarrassing yourself. For the record, nobody with any common sense fears Trump. Why do you fear president Joe Biden?
@@TuckerCarlson-wi7xs why does trump fear prison?
Kenny Rodgers put it this way: know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em.
The regret from not quitting (or quitting) is fallacious because you can never go back in time to retest the alternate decision. You have to rely on supposition which tends to be a biased fantasy of an alternate reality. People who fail mire themselves in regret.
Problem is, todays society, no reward at the end or the reward is so small, doesn’t make a difference
This is a truly exciting area of study, and Ms. Keller is a brilliant, engaging woman.
As an editor, I would urge Ms. Keller to pronounce “perseverance” properly, because it is a key word in her world. Thanks for this interview!
These attitudes demonstrate the collectivist, anti-individualist nature of our times, especially in the U.S.. People are raised to think that they must justify their lives to every random idiot in their proximity. I was raised, in Canada's wilderness north, in a different way, in a fundamentally individualist ethos. If I make a life or work decision, that decision IS NOBODY ELSE'S DAMN BUSINESS. I don't have to answer to anyone for my life choices. Keep on a job, quit the job, spend my time studying physics or smoking weed.... nobody other than me has any justifiable privilege of poking their nose into my affairs or instructing me on my choices. I lived briefly in the U.S. and couldn't stand it, because everybody, everywhere kept telling me how to live MY life, and even telling me what I should think about God, the Afterlife, Sin, Salvation, etc., as if THEY were in charge of me. Not to mention their aggressively trying to control my sexual and romantic choices, how I dressed, what I read, listened to or watched. I was surrounded by control freaks endlessly trying to manipulate me, everyone of them loudly certain of their particular program for other people's lives. It was like living in the Soviet Union. I moved back to Canada where people generally mind their own business.
Excellent interview, thanks!
We live in a society of trade. Trading on products, services, labor, and capital. If you lack these things, you won’t do well materially. Most people have their labor and skills to fall back on as their only thing to trade. So if you quit and stop working all together, you shouldn’t be surprised that you will have less.
My last job I was in charge of a program that’s been around for over 40 years in federal government. Military management got involved and fuck it up. I tired to keep it working. I departed because of this. The program went to shit after I departed. My old boss said they blamed me and going back to how it was because It Work🙃.
Good question
Don't bother, TuckerCarlson-wi7xs is just a troll and maybe a bot.
The Great American lie is "Work hard and you'll succeed." This lie only benefits the people you work hard for. There's an old meem online. It shows a photograph of a beautiful mansion with a caption that reads..."If you work really hard, one day your boss could live here."
Luck, Connections, and a Leg Up are what makes someone successful in life. Hard work is only one tiny fraction of the success equation. Luck = how you were born, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, health. Connections = You have a pathway laid out for you by another person. Doors are opened for you. Leg Up = Family members giving a loan to help you start your business.
I have a minor cavill at 12:12 - single-cell organisms don't have brains, although, amazingly, some of them can apparently make choices. (I guess that might come down to defining what we mean by choice.)
Her point with Edison was crap.
She referred to his "quitting" working an individual plant for synthetic rubber yet trying 19,000!
That is opposite of quitting.
8:10
4:00 _“People are born black or brown…”_
-“Brown” is not an official category and I wish ppl would stop using it. It only serves to make a complicated issue unnecessarily more complex. Also, there is no inherent social or economic disadvantage to being born female.
Dayum Vivek mopped the floor with your ass. 😂😂😂
She looks exactly like i imagined a pulitzer prize winner would look, thats interesting
So, it's not that the poor are lazy or immoral... they're just impulsive? Nice lol 🤦🏽♂️
i guess she was on the pbd and arguing her main premise?
It's simple. Name me one successful person who quit?
Edison
Custer wasn't a quitter 🫡
Groucho always makes me laugh.
It's not quitting. It's adaptation. The book just didn't put the dots together.
It's nice to hear someone advocate the merits of suicide for once.
Is that not just the pen ultimate of cost-benefit analysis and choosing quitting as the best option?
Julia Keller has the same speech pattern as Hillary Clinton making both great story tellers and explainers.
What nonsense. Perseverance was correctly seen as a virtue in all walks of life and has nothing to do with blaming poor people in a capitalist society.
If you quit your job because something better is available, that's not going to be looked at negatively. If you quit because you're an entitled crybaby who wants more money without having to do more work, people are rightfully going to look at that negatively.
Because quitting is failing. If I have a job to do that requires help, my help guits, the job doesn't get done. We lose.
So if you have a job and you don't like it anymore then it's bad quitting that job to get another one??
There r exceptions to almost any rule of thumb. There r many good reasons to quit early to change course
@@dynamicdave2647 My point doesn't change. You quit. Whether for your own good or not. That means someone had to cover the failure you created by quitting. I left one job for another in my life, but I never left a job unfinished. Whatever my assignment was, I finished it before I left it. No one lost. When you think of a "quitter" , you're usually referring to someone that couldn't get it done and just gave up
@@billyjohnson1977 Maybe it has to do something with the company they work for.
The company you work for can be sh*t, maybe the company quit on their employers.
It works both ways you know!
@@Brozius2512 Now that I will not disagree with. That's an excellent point. Kudos!
Who gives a shit what people think ...is this an actual problem?
Yes, it is
I live in Oklahoma. I don’t think 20% of the population has ever had an original thought in their life !!!!