THEY LOST THEIR MINDS | "STEVE NASH HAS A TOP 10 PEAK ALL-TIME" (w/
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มี.ค. 2023
- The Panel presented by Players Choice is an NBA Debate show that consists of passionate individuals who love the game and history of basketball. You never know who could show up on The Panel so tune in every Tuesday for live NBA debates and join in on the conversation.
Panel: Legend of Winning, TICKETtv, Shaq, Dub, Marz, Del, Sports Fluent & Host Ron
FULL EPISODE: th-cam.com/users/livezo5IYSzxFMI?...
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They got asked "Why is Kidd a better passer than Jokic?" Crickets lmaoooo
They just be chatting
@@Aka_GodSpeedfr they just claim things as blasphemous and have no reasoning as to why besides “it’s not the average person’s opinion”
Why is JOKIC a better passer than Kidd?
Because Jokic actually poses a scoring threat. This distracts his teammates’ defenders, allowing them to get open. Kidd was a horrible scorer
😂 jokic a better passer than Kidd ?
Offensive peak* L title
Fax marz
Stop whining Marz you know you didn’t say anything else why would anyone lie
@@benjaminwatson7868 i mean the proof is in the first 15 seconds but i understand listening is not something alot of people do
@MarzTalksSports these people be sayin anything without watching the video first
please start posting dawg😭
Once people can rationalise offense being more than isolation scoring the way we talk ab basketball will vastly improve
Don’t try to contextualize that foolishness you just said . That statement was just asinine
@@3PTBall Like i said once people can understand what offense is,agree or disagree basketball discourse will improve drastically
@@3PTBall I hate Steve Nash’s game but marz is right.
In the slowest era ever a guy who dropped 19 and 11.5 in his prime on 50+ FG%, 42-45 percent from three, while being one of the greatest free throw shooters of all time.
Exactly Marz. 💯. These people have no idea what actually creates a great offensive unit. They just focus on isolation.
No idea about floor spacing, off ball movement, set offenses, spread offenses, single stack, double stack, lows, highs.
A lot of these people don't see that Steve Nash's skillset impacted ALL of this.
you know DAMN well ESPECIALLY on here that won't ever happen😂😂
Steve Nash was crazy efficient, his MVP years he had 50-40-90 splits. And there is more to offense than just scoring. Passing is important, setting screens and efficiency. Nash was great at all three.
He also had 10 seasons where he either led the team or was a major successor to the team as a 1 or 2 offensive rating in the league
Facts, even simple stuff like moving without the ball, creating the pace of the game based off instinct, talking to each other
not just great, imo he was ELITE
@@denim5667 Tell em again! 👏
Jacob Lee Nothing is more important than scoring you fool
Best way to argue with people like Ticket is just not argue at all. Webber better passer than Jokic is an all time casual take
He’s literally the stereotype of an oldhead. Man said Chris Webber lmao
Yeah that’s a bad take
ticket actaully plays basketball, half of yall are just mathletes
@coldskin1 So because he played professionally means he's right? Barkley is a top 50 player of all time, yet he has one of the worst takes. So just because someone played the sports doesn't mean they know more or are more right then people who haven't played
These arguments are dumb because JOKIC is pretty much assigned to pass and facilitate whereas CWebb wasn’t
5 best offenses relative to the league ever.
2004 Mavs
2005 Suns
2016 Warriors
2002 Mavs
2010 Suns
Nash was the lead initiator on 4 of them. He wasn't a good defender and that held him back as an all time player but just offense he was clearly one of the 10 best ever.
Excellent passer, efficient shooter. Not a good defender, but very good player in general.
He may not have deserved the MVP’s, but has four top five MVP finishes.
He had a good career.
@@fortynights1513He definitely was deserving in 2005. In 2006 they probably gave it to him cuz he was still 3rd in the West with Stoudamire out all year
@@fortynights1513 tried to sneak in doesn’t deserve his MVPs 😂 we know 2005 was definitely deserving
@@fortynights1513 maybe not but honestly he has a stronger case to win both than people remember and either way he was a fair choice.
Didn't make the finals in his career doe
Offense is not just scoring.
When you're running the best offenses of all time and you're the common denominator, and you're as skilled as he is, theres no question.
Lmao harden was leading some of the best offenses of all time too and harden was averaging 35 on elite TS% while doing it. 😂
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 hows that playoff translation looking?
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 What offense that Harden led that looks better than the 01/02 Mavs, 03/04 Mavs, or the 04/05 Suns?...
Don't worry, I'll wait.
@@MarzTalksSports for Nash or harden? Bc Nash has an even bigger fall off in efficiency and overall value in the playoffs in comparison to harden. Harden has a lot of choking moments but his playoff struggles have mostly come against all time great teams like the warriors
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 nash value falls off more than harden,yeah we can agree to disagree thats fine it is what it is
Steve Nash is one the most efficient Point Guards of All-Time I'm with Marz on this one
Win take Jeremy
MARZ CAUSING CHAOS ON THE SHOW 😭😭😭 spitting facts tho.
Curry being the 4th best playmaker is crazy. Nash offensive peak being 7th best ever is nonsense.
@@thialhoinj1971 i didnt put a number on nash
@@thialhoinj1971 Steph is an off ball playmaker. He is a constant scoring threat so his movement off ball forces teams to cover and that opens up space for other players. It's not obvious playmaking like what harden or Nash did, but it's literally the core of the GSW's motion offence
@@MarzTalksSports my bad top 10 still too high for Nash, considering hes playoff peak was 16 and 10 assist, Stockton, Paul, kid might be top 15 than. But worse is in no way curry a better playmaker than Paul. Offensive player curry Definitely better but not playmaker, playmaking is all Paul does.
@@thialhoinj1971 agree to disagree
Not saying Nash is a top 10 offensive peak, but the dude was the catalyst for teams that led the league in offensive rating and efficiency for 7 straight years, including a few in Dallas. 4 of the top 5 offences ever year adjusted are the 02 Mavs, 04 Mavs, 05 Suns and 2010 Mavs. That isn’t a coincidence, and shows Mash wasn’t tied to any particular coach or teammate.
His teams shot 20% better on average with him on the floor. 20/10 with 50/40/90 efficiency is a ridiculously high peak and easily bests volume scorer on mid efficiency (McGrady). Nash has now become underrated.
And Joker is a better passer than Kidd.
And got bounced in the playoffs every year
Please tell me the other playmaker that could have taken those Nets teams to the finals like Kidd
@@versatilethearcane All time or who played at that moment? Because in that moment prolly only Gary Payton, AI and Kobe. The league experienced a massive decline in talent post MJ, any version of Nash from 03-10 would have also. The East was the weakest conference maybe in the history of basketball from 99-04, Kidds weak team is valid but it has to be placed in proper context (which is the conference was weak also, every team was built on a line offensive superstar with primary defensive role players).
Jokic mort certainly would have.
@@hardwoodthought1213 lmao if you think Nash would’ve took that nets team to the finals. The nets didn’t have nearly enough offensive weapons to allow Nash to flourish like he did in Dallas or Phoenix, coupled with how bad he was defensively, those nets teams don’t go anywhere. You’re forgetting, the nets weren’t a great offensive team, even when kidd got there but they did become an elite defense and kidd was a big part of that.
Lol who gives af when not one of those teams went to Finals... you stat nerds are apart of what's wrong with the NBA because players and casuals care more about stats than wins smh
Ticket's anger over other people's opinions about basketball is never not going to be hilarious 🤣
It’s wired that people think offensive only means scoring. Efficiency, playmaking/passing, off ball movement, playoff translation, being able to fit with different players, and your ability to anchor elite offensives are all parts of being an elite offensive player. People have a simplistic view of offense. Marz is correct, Nash is a top 10 offensive player if not borderline top 5.
Stick computer programing
a top 5 offensive player of all time couldnt manage to win a championship or even get to a finals lmaooo these takes are insane
@@Coldskin1stick to selling drugs
Basing passing ability heavily off of flair and flashiness? If that's the case the top 3 would be Magic, Luka and Jason Williams lol
Nash and kidd are way flashier than Luka
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 Fam just pull up Luka's best passes from last season and you'll see they weren't
They were better passers, but not flashier
@@De3dSh0t dog you literally just said based off of flair and flashiness read what you wrote
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 And he's flashier than both lol
They're more effective imo but he's flashier
The funniest part of this whole segment was ticket saying c Webb and vlade divac were better passers than jokic 😂😂
bruh this entire episode just proved that A. no one but Low and Marz watches Jokic and B. we've got to the point to where a player's offensive game is only considered his scoring
Jokic gonna be the most slandered and underrated player to ever play the game when it's all said and done
If he ends up with 0 rings and keeps up the trend of early exits in the playoffs, then he deserves all the slander that would come to him
@@pradayou5405he has a ring 💍
Efficiency + Playmaking + Passing + Shooting + Playoff translation (without actually wining the chip for multiple years). It’s sounds good and cute but Shaq just being a unstoppable force trumps all of that by just dunking. And other players are just much more skilled/dominant than him. Adding up categories doesn’t mean someone is better offensively.
Casuals think offense is just scoring. Example A guy who averages 25 points and 3 assists. Is not a better offensive player who averages 15 points and 10 assists
this is also a casual opinion,just in a different way lmao,Andre miller never had a better offensive peak than carmelo
@@MarzTalksSports if Andre did it for 5-10 years I would say yeah. But his peak was too short to compare. Nash certainly had a higher offensive peak than Carmelo.
He generating more points and leading the league number 1 offense. While being on the short list of the 50 40 90 club
and to top it off. That 15 and 10 has one of the highest efficiencies in the league
@@1990POE if andre did it his whole career he still wouldnt have been,jason kidd wasnt better offensively than carmelo
@@MarzTalksSports why not? You’re talking about guys not only playing elite level but elevating the team offensively. Melo don’t do that. If he’s off shooting the ball he has no value to the offense especially since he’s still going to keep shooting
At least you can say this take isn’t based on stats
its head cannon and before his time
Comparing Steve Nash to Jeremey Lin was one of the most unintelligent, thoughtless takes that’s anyone on this show has ever made
for real 😂it was for the clout
I would love for Del, Fluent, Ticket and Shaq to actually give their arguments and not just say: you're wrong, get your eyes checked. Low en Marz are giving genuine reasons for their choices and when they ask: why is Kidd better than Jokic? its silent. If you can't argue on over the other than don't call someone out on their opinion. Marz will give you a good explanation for playmaking and offense and its not just scoring. LISTEN.
This is FACTS!!! Hate on Nash all you want but he's a top 10 offensive peak AND top 10 shooter ever. It is what it is.
my man knows ball
0:40 don't even got a top 10🤡
head cannon not facts
And yet no final appearances or titles to show for it.
Top 10 offensive peak and not even a finals appearance lmao maybe top 10 of his time but of all time?? Lay off the fucking drugs
@@Gmacshow What does that have to do with his ability OFFENSIVELY?
Steve Nash offensively was amazing - MVP caliber and he was obviously a terrific passer and sort of an underrated shooter if that’s possible - but top 10 offensive peak?? Christ
He’s right tho 🔥 and it’s about time Nash got his respect
What episode is this?
I never knew Steve Nash was this hated in the basketball community. I loved him and the suns when I was a kid. Now it seems like people try to tarnish his legacy. It’ll happen to jokic too I bet
Steve Nash was my favorite oh just cuz of how un selfish and how he got his whole team involved. The disrespect to nah is crazy
he’s hated cuz A. He’s white and some folks have this weird hate fetish to him B. he won MVP over Kobe so lakers fans automatically hate him C. other fans of other point guards hate that he is ranked ahead of their PGs
personally it’s a toss up and mix of all 3.
@@valleynation lmao what 😂
how is saying he isnt top 10 hating wtf lets not lie about players just because you like them how about that
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 I mean he’s not entirely wrong…
Shaq was trying to trigger Marz 😂😂😂
This started about nash and ended with jokic lol
Lmao the title made marz look a little crazy but he did say offensive
It’s a bad take either way 😂.
fax bro i was abt to tear up i can’t see my goat going out like that
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 the offensive take is delicious 🥩
@@pimpnamedslickback7780No it’s not
This comment section is funny. No shootjng and iso play isn’t the only element of basketball. That being said yall are massively overrating playmaking. Steve nash was incredible efficient bht at a lower volume than James harden. I’m not even a James harden fan but the advanced stats bear out that harden was just as efficent of a player at a much higher volume of shots than nash. When it comes to the eye test you can see that defenses adjusted in ways for harden more than they did for nash. The gravity he commanded on the court when you combine his elite court vision and scoring ability is one of the greatest offensive shows we’ve ever seen. And before people bring up his trail off in the playoffs nash saw many of the same trail off with mostly better teammates outside of the cp3 yrs for harden.
facts. too many hesi hesi casuals… it’s fun but it’s also sad that they think that’s what basketball is only aboutb
Based on Eye test, no way Joker’s a better passer than J Kidd. Just look at their passing compilations.
Jokic is 7ft tall, and therefore literally has access to vision that strength that small guards didn't, he can make passes at angles and heights that shorter guards couldn't. He has the flare, he has the consistency and he has great numbers, while also having more variety in ways he can deliver the ball. CP3 and Kidd are not dropping full court lasers to guy for 2 step layups, and theyre not going up over the top to deliver passes.
The fact that nobody has brought up the height difference is wild.
If 2 players are both great passers, the cieling for the 7 footer is much higher then it is for the 6 footer. Dudes just dont know how to react because Jokic is winning MVP and they mad about it.
For one Jason Kidd wasn't a small guard he was a legit 6'4 I also don't think hight makes that big a difference when it comes to passing passing angles a little bit but when it comes to vision imo that's something you either have or you don't has nothing to do with height
@@johndavis9321that's not what he said.
@@zombie92110 ???
Nash over Harden is CRAZY
I would.
why?
lowkey i feel like the gap between their scoring is higher than their playmaking.
@@Axzide no disrespect to you but i strongly dislike this reasoning,im gonna address it on open gym today
@@MarzTalksSports bet, imma be watching :3 :v
I'm not saying that James Harden is "One of the Ten Best offensive Players of All Time"
but since the name came up and we have these lists with no criteria just opinions.. here are some actual numbersr to back something up
Nash 2005-2010 - Harden 2015-2020
Games
466 - 462
MP
15,975 - 16,954
If we counted actual possessions Harden would lead by a good amount but lets just count ACTUAL production.
Can't put opinion on these numbers
PTS
7,930 - 14,293
PTS Generated off Assists (we have these stats for these guys so we can compare)
11,388 - 9,134
So the count right there is +4,109 more generated from Harden
Lets look at Turnovers
Bad Passes
1,244 - 1,240
Lost Ball
301 - 599
Overall Turnovers are
1,646 - 2,169
That -523 is a major hit on Harden so he needs to be penalized off his +4,109 of actual production. So how much would you take away? Still in the lead though.
TS%
.628 - .613
ORating which I'm not a fan of
121 - 118
PTS ADDED by FG shooting
991.6 - 271
PTS ADDED by TS shooting
1119.7 - 1430.3
These numbers have Nash based on his shooting which Marz says he's one of the best ever is +410.
How they get these numbers is not an exact science what is exact is the actual production done.
even these numbers don't put someone in the Top 10 for sure but another guy outside the top 10.
Especially When Harden is far and away the more dangerous player on the court where at any moment he can break a game open. The entire defense focuses on him.
Harden is producing more in Nash's place than the other way around.
So how can Nash be a better offensive player?
Is he better in ISO, Better in transition? more dangerous off the pick n roll? Do you have to double Nash more often? Can he go for 40+ and break the game open more than Harden? Does he have more range? a better finisher? WTF does Nash do that makes him a better offensive player than Harden? Does he put more pressure on the defense by getting to the FT line getting a players in foul trouble his team in the bonus? Is he so much faster with the ball? Is he hypnotizing and casting spells??
If Nash is better from 05-10
I would like to know if Marz thinks Nash was a better offensive player than Kobe from 05-10
Their years are right there together.
Everything he says about "led some of the best regular season and playoff offensive teams" would apply to debate about Kobe.
He would say Nash is a better passer than Kobe during those years.
He would say a "better playmaker"
Definitely would say a better shooter
A better "offensive translation" & "offensive infiltrators all time"
IS NASH A BETTER OFFENSIVE PLAYER THAN KOBE DURING THOSE SAME YEARS?
If the answer is yes
there is a problem.
The problem is you didn’t account for the relative to their era, Nash in Harden’s era would produce more numbers, by the offensive production percentage, Nash was more effective as a offensive player than both Kobe and Harden. the main reason why Nash isn’t above them is because both the defenses impact is more of a gap than the offensive gap Nash has above them. That’s why all time it’s Kobe > Harden > Nash
These takes are hilarious.
When most people say offensive , they just think you’re talking about scoring variety .
Which is dumb
So magic johnson dumb?
Marz how do you think is better offensively right now Haliburton or Giannis?
giannis
@@MarzTalksSports that's just incorrect Halliburton is a 3 level scorer and is 2nd in the NBA in assist per game while having a worse team than harden who is leading the nba in assist per game, he was also leading the NBA in assist per game for much of the season. so by your logic of how people need to consider playmaking into offense not just scoring Haliburton should be over Giannis, though Giannis has more points per game than him it shouldn't matter because Jokic has less ppg than Giannis but you still think he is better offensively because Jokic is more efficient from the free throws and 3 point range and becuase Jokic is a better playmaker and passer. So if your logic is consistent then Haliburton should be above Giannis offensively because of the monumental gap in playmaking/passing. ALL of which is being executed with a worse team than Giannis....
@@real-timerami5041 lol okay
@@MarzTalksSports lol and u just say ok when your wrong😂😂😂
@@xoHaj i didnt want to ignore u after ur hard work typing out all that nonsense
The only 2 players I know of that have led a top 2 offense for 6 consecutive seasons are Magic Johnson and Steve Nash
Edit: Scratch that, Nash actually did it for 9 straight seasons including his last 3 years in Dallas
And only one of them have a chip
@@justo2734 well, one of them got to play with Kareem in a less stacked conference
Why the hell was Jeremy Lin brought up wow
some have a weird hate boner for Nash 😅
Marz being so annoyed with this conversation on the side is so funny
Top 10 offensive players imo in no specific order: Kevin Durant lebron mj Kobe jokic curry shaq Larry bird kareem
If any great basketball that is in his prime or is at the peak of his career winning championships validates
saying chris webber and vlade divac are better passers than Jokic is criminal lmao
Top ten offensive players of all time I want to see this list
Yk What I Peepedd Mars & Low Stay Tryna Save Eachother When They Know They Said Some Outlandish Shit 😭😭😭😭
i dont try and save anyone
Nash has 2 MVPs and Multiple 50/40/90 seasons
WHAT?!???!!!
Marz lost his mind on this one
Where’s stockton
Steve Nash is my favorite basketball player of all time. Let’s stop with the disrespect. He’s definitely top 10 offensive player of all time. His peak was crazy
Naw top 10 PG yes Not Top 10 player
every team he was on from like 03-07 was SIGNIFICANTLY Better when he was on the floor offensively, 50-40-90 splits in his prime, The best passer & playmaker in the league and in one of the slowest paced eras. Top 10 may be a stretch but let's not act like Nash wasn't him
This is the fair take. I’d say top 25. Top 10 is ridiculous tho. For me you need to be able to put the ball in the hoop at an elite clip on high volume to be top 10
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 30 points on mid efficiency with a couple of assists by virtue of passing to a guy who shoots and scores isn’t better than 20/10 on 50/40-90 efficiency whilst creating driving lanes and open shots. Tho I do agree it isn’t a top 10 offensive peak
@@hardwoodthought1213 are you on drugs? Hardens efficiency was between .610 and .630 in his prime. Lay off the crack
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 When did I mention Harden? Harden also was an elite facilitator and I agree wholeheartedly he had a better offensive peak than Nash. I was speaking more to dudes like McGrady
@@hardwoodthought1213when has nash ever averaged exactly 20 points per game in the regular season ?
Passing/Playmaking ??? How do you not mention Rondo & Lonzo 😮..
So tired of this Stockton and kidd disrespect
He is tripping that man averaged 15 points and I know he was a 40/50/90 guy but top 10 gets you past the spurs or Lakers at least once
15 points starter/role player stats
40/50/90 is just something stat nerds bring up
Sent the lakers home 2 years in a row.
Swept the spurs in 2010.
2005 injuries
2006 no amare
2007 suspensions.
Just bad luck moreso than anything else.
@@canadadry4609 cool participation trophies but he couldn't get it done when it mattered the most. Nash is an NBA finals virgin. MJ, Lebron, Kobe, KD, Steph, Dwade, Bird, Hakeem, Dirk, Magic all better offensive player than Nash and they have all showed their offensive ability when it mattered the most
@@pradayou5405
Okay. No nuance. Just black and white . Classic low iq thought process.
Nashs numbers went up in the playoffs. And his teams offenses in the playoffs are all time level same way they were in the regular season so theres that too...
All that leads one to believe that if it werent for those above circumstances and steve Kerr didnt break the team up too soon, they would have been successful at least one of those years. Because again nash nor the offense fell off in the playoffs.
He slid Jokic in there too like cmon man 😂😂😂 Steve Nash never averaged 20 PPG and he’s 10 offensive players of all time and harden isn’t?? when he led the league in scoring and assists damn near back to back years dawg it’s COMICAL 😂😂😂😂
Nash would avg 20 PPG in todays game, but even then, his efficiency was damn insane that he was still a great scorer from his stats alone. and that led to some high 20/30 point games he would perform when the team needed him too
The Stockton hate has to stop man🤦🏾♂️
All time leader in assist and the reason Karl Malone is top 5 all time scoring…how is he not a top 5 passer😐
Yeah hate stockton by hype the shit out nash
Why do people get emotional about Marz takes ? But people have their opinions... Geeeesh
cause people that actually lived thur the 2000's knows this a trash take
@@Coldskin1 Lmao
Offensive Player....this panel doesn't know what Offense is all about. They think scoring is all about what offense.
This people are casuals
Do you even play basketball?
I would say since % stats don't matter individually but matter when we make the "led some of the best offenses ever both regular season and playoffs"
How would you define or have a criteria to score
"best passer"
"best playmaker"
one of the best shooters ( since % or FG% is not a thing)
this terminology of "offensive player translation"
& please define "offensive initiators"
Also Gentry was D'Antoni's assistant. It's not 2 different coaches it basically the same shit.
Nah it’s two different systems, Gentry used more pick n rolls and spacing vs Mike relying on fast paced kick outs and some of pick n rolls, especially 2005 being seven seconds or less… also Amare was injured in 06 so the offense had to be carried by Nash more than in other seasons
Ok so talent wise Nash might be below alot of these guys but numbers and efficiency wise he's above alot of them simple. Marz has a point but he's juicing it too hard
he is a top 10 offensive player without a doubt
Jokic over JKidd is crazy 😂 JKidd number 2
Wassup with all these fraudulent peak topics lately 🤦🏾♂️😂… Don’t get me wrong analytics and efficiency is certainly importantly but that shouldn’t be all you’re taking into account… especially if it doesn’t have a impact on winning
Marz says Nash from 05-10 is a top 10 peak all time…. Well from 06-09 Nash and the Suns 1)lost in 2nd rd 2)lost in 1st rd 3) and missed Playoffs in 3 straight years playing alongside other all Stars in Stoudemire and Marion…. Sure he was efficient and they had great regular season success but what good is “all this efficiency” if your getting bounced early/missing playoffs…. More importantly How is that a top 10 peak? Does winning not matter?
Some of these same guys that preach analytics and efficiency then will turn around and say something like Kobe doesn’t have a top 10 peak or isn’t a top 10 player all time because of the “lack of efficiency” myth without considering any context whatsoever (era, defenses, makeup of team, pace, etc.)
Meanwhile Kobe the “shot-chucker, ballhog” won and dominated his era in which the comp in the West was probably the best any conference has ever been in NBA history. From 00-10’ going to 7 Finals, and winning 5 chips on 2 completely different rosters while also having a rebuild in the middle…. I just don’t get some of these analytic guys
who said anything ab kobe,he was put in the top 10 too
@@MarzTalksSports Wassup Marz, only called u out for saying Nash had a top 10 peak from 05-10. I disagree for the reasons I mentioned in my original comment.
I brought up Kobe to speak on how (in general) it’s seem some today get TOO caught up in the analytics and seem to forget basketball is still played on the court and not an excel spreadsheet
Recency Bias Is Crazy Man 😂
never no Rondo love they better change that shit Rondo was him
Rondo is a top 10 passer of All time as well
Iq
ion know how marz doesn’t loose his shit talking ball with dudes who are unable to give nuanced takes and only look at counting stats
takes alot of therapy sessions
@@MarzTalksSports dudes don’t understand how important things like decision making passing and being able to manipulate defences are they think offence is just isolating scoring and assists
This is an awful take. No offense isn’t only about scoring but Nash was not top 10 peak offensive player in his prime. Putting him ahead of kd and harden is laughable. Y’all have some insane agenda pushing going on here
i mean, not really. if you see his peak year and compare it to todays game it’s really impressive.
Nash was def a top 10 peak offensive player, let alone top 5
Name ANY offense with Harden at the helm that was better than the 01/02 Mavs, the 03/04 Mavs or the 04/05 Suns.
Don't worry, I'll wait. Please enlighten the people.
@@Axzide you got players double nash in points and avging almost the same assists and actually plays defense nope
This is a great take. High offense is about scoring, playmaking/passing, efficiency in which Nash is elite in 3 of those factors. Putting him ahead of KD and harden is logical. Ya’ll have some insane agenda against Nash cuz he’s white going on here
Steve Nash is definitely a top 10 offensive peak of all time.
FAXXXXXX
Spittin
0:40 🤡dude don't even have a top 10 stop it
@@Coldskin1 he doesn’t have a list but he def has Nash in that list 🤡
Stop
LeosBurner
0 seconds ago
They say explain why Kidd is a better passer than Jokic and basically say “ITS OBVIOUS” and say a lot of loud nothing.
You can disagree with Marz but he has a consistent criteria of players. The only thing Ticket is consistent at is crying on the mic and sounding butthurt
No love for Jason Williams passing?
I can see what Marz is saying but sometimes my 36 ppg can outweigh your 15 & 13.
But the 15 and 13 generates more points you know
those 13 assists can generate a teams points 30ppg (on twos and threes) and plus his own 15 = 45+ppg > 36ppg
John Stockton!? I’m surprised I’m half way through this and haven’t heard his name….
? he’s not good like that lol
@@Axzide Don't say that. They might say you're "too young" LMAO 🤣
@@Axzide tell ‘em
@@CharlieXFBA fax bro, it’s really stupid how these old heads think. it’s like they have no eyes for the game and only look at box scores. if u watch a malone stockton jazz game you’ve watched them all. they literally run the same PnR every other play. Not only that but the quality of the passes is nothing in comparison with modern nba. Put Austin reaves on that Jazz team and he’d be the old heads playmaking goat lol
@@Axzide Ok and the Jazz had great success running that offence. And if its so easy, why doesn't everyone do it!? Stockton has the assist and steals records by a mile and half, its not even close! Those two records might not ever be broken, how does that not count for something?
That low and marz dude might be trolling y’all at this point. I thought ticket had some wild takes but these dudes are def baiting people 😂.
what did i say that was so wild u think im trolling?
How is this a wild take?
@@MarzTalksSports putting harden below nash as an offensive player. Either you’re trolling or y’all are on a nostalgia hype. Not a harden fan but him in Houston reached levels nash would never achieve.
@@pimpnamedslickback7780 um so saying the better passer playmaker shooter playoff performer pick and roll player transition player off ball player is a better offensive player is either nostalgia or trolling?
@@MarzTalksSports with that logic ai a top playmaker
Marz was spittin everything but the Jason Kidd > Jokic passing… but Jokic for sure in that top 10 all time passers of all time
This got NASTY
Haven’t bothered to learn his name cuz he just yells, but dude who just screams at everyone gives awful takes. Thinks talking the loudest makes him right
Harden led the league in scoring 3 years in a row, had the highest ppg average since Jordan in 87 one of those years, led the lead in assists the year before his scoring titles. No way Nash’s offensive peak is better. And with the eye test harden is clearly a better offensive player.
No respect for Jason Kidd smh
Jokic a better passer than Kidd is ABSOLUTELY DISRESPECTFUL and nuts. JKidd is a pure point guard. Jokic is just a big making interior passes. Jokic will not be an all time assist leader when its all said and done
Mars needs to ✋️
How can Steve Nash have higher offensive peak than Jordan when he never lead a team to the finals which means he couldn’t score when his team needed him most
noone said higher than jordan
How is Steve Nash a better playmaker than Lebron or Jordan when he couldn’t make plays when he teams need him the most doesn’t offensive execution in crunch time count for playmaking?
@@VMONdaDON who told u he couldnt do that
@@MarzTalksSports look at his crunch time numbers in the 2005, 2006, and 2010 conference finals.
@@VMONdaDON okay
Ticket think chips come from one player.🤦🏾♂️
I’m sorry but Marz and low are really disgusting to sit there and say Steve Nash is better offensively then james harden , when harden scores better they both pass the ball great , they are both great play makers
I’m sorry but to say Nash isn’t better than harden at all offensively is disgusting when he matches harden’s volume scoring with elite playmaking/passing, elite efficiency and the postseason performances which he never dips like harden does
Look, Respect to Lebron…great player, but to rate him as one of the To 5 passers of all time is just crazy to me :
- only led the league in assists once, only in the Too 5 TWICE…
- only has ONE season in double digit assists, and only six @ 8+ in twenty years…
- only had a 4-5 year apg peak, whereas all the elite passers have at LEAST 8 year peaks, and mainly at 9-10+ apg
- isn’t in the Top 20 in apg, only longevity, whereas the elite passers have both…
By this criteria, this is who I have above him :
Magic
Stockton
Kidd
Nash
Isaiah
Mark Jackson
CP3
Big O
Harden
Note* : I’m not saying better payers, but better passers….
Steve Nash was never even a top 5 player in the league i d argue that he never even was top 10 but whatever
He was definitely a top 5 player in the league from 2005 to 2007
And Steve Nash won zero championships with a stacked team and being so efficient.
And Nash was robbed a chip from the Amare diaw suspensions in 07 from the horry hip check foul
@@MOCdude yeah the leading scorers on the team🤣
@@Coldskin1 yeah thanks to Nash feeding them the ball. Nash still was able to lead the team deep into postseason without Amare 🤣
@@MOCdude 😂🤣😂 at robbed. Are you really trying to deem the Spurs chip in 2007 illegitimate.....Shame on you. Phoenix and the other worldly Nash had more chances. 06, 08, 09, 2010... L, L, L, L.... Even 2013 he teamed with Kobe and was str8 garbage and Kobe had to run point.
john stockon ?
He's in 9-12 range with Kobe, TMac & Luka, I'd put him at the end as of now.
Ain’t 3 better offensive players then Kobe lay off the drugs
@@kevinmckay2483 L, there's more to offense than scoring.
@@benjaminan1183 yup I get play making and passing but those two things doesn’t simply over come scoring alone 🤷🏽♂️ besides Kobe could do much more then just score on offense
@@benjaminan1183 don’t believe me! Name 2 shooting guards with more assist then Kobe? Name me 3 shooting guards who were better play makers… Kobe was one of the best passing/playmaking twos to ever touch the court to go along with his elite scoring
@@kevinmckay2483 Sure, screening, spacing & passing turnovers all go into it though, which leads to him falling behind LeBron, MJ, KD, Joker, Steph, Harden, Wade and Magic
I ain’t gone lie this is just recency bias because ain’t no way you would say jokic is a better passer than jkidd wtf are we talkin about
These guys are acting like he averaged 25+ with his efficiency. He avg 15 pts which is low volume = higher efficiency. If he was a top 10 offensive player of all time he would of been drawing consistent double teams. The players her played with though did (dirk and amare) which made his game much easier. The fact this guy says he’s a top 10 offensive player of all time is really disrespectful to offense. This is when nerds read into stats too much. Also no chips.
W take
Jason Kidd not in his top 5 playmakers all time is crazy he don’t watch basketball I’m sorry
i watch basketball
Rondo a better passer than jokic 🎯!!!
These people does not know basketball Lmaoooo this is the most egregious thing I ever heard
Top 5 offensively.
at best yes
LeBron, MJ, KD, the Joker and Steph.
@@benjaminan1183
I could easily argue nash over KD. Joker too.
But let me rephrase. Arguably top 5. EASILY top 10.
So John Stockton doesn't exist....?
Most Assists doesn’t mean the greatest passer, just like how LeBron has the most points but is he a better scorer than Michael Jordan or Kevin Durant ?
Marz has to get off this panel man this is gross
MJ
Kobe
Shaq
Steph
Magic
LBJ
Durant
Jokic
(Just off top my head)
that’s 8 + shaq and kd don’t got that high volume elite playmaking/passing or high efficiency shooting that Nash has (KD does tho)
Poor Mars‼️🤦🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
Boston Rondo was damn near the best player maker in basketball from 09 - 14 his offensive arsenal wasn’t as great as Steve Nash but, he could get to the rim better and he made some unbelievable passes while winning
Rondo imo is one of the more underrated PG of the 2010's
Idk how shaq thinks jokic being a better passing than jkidd is based on stats smh🤦🏻♂️
smooth brains
cause Shaq's brain can't handle stats beyond ppg and fg%😂😂
@@qupope6955 but thats seemes to be just for jokic, because thats not the energy for other players like stockton, russ, giannis, etc.