Jeff Hornacek? Jeff Malone? Thurl Bailey? Blue Edwards? etc. Y’all think it’s just Karl? Cmon John made himself the 3rd-4th scoring option. He really ran the offense and always optimized where the ball went.
There’s a misconception that Stockton is only the all time assist leader because of a longer career most people are unaware of the fact that he holds several single season records in that category with less turnovers then magic his apg decreased cause of less minutes played he also broke the record 8 years before he even retired so he could have retired 4 or 5 years earlier
Wel that’s also given the context of how fast and risky a lot of magics game was. He could be extremely efficient but his game was predicated on keeping the defense on their toes off the fastbreak. A lot of his stuff was on the move at top speed and he was super flashy and threw alot of fastballs. That style of play would obviously lead to more turnovers. Stockton was more selective and played more in the halfcourt then magic. His spacing was also a lot better than what magic had to work with in the earth 80s when the three had only just become an option in magic rookie year. Magic was more on the lebron scale of passers. He drew alot of attention because of the break neck pace he played at and he was also a bigger threat to score driving or the rim and posting up. I’d compare Stockton more to cp3. Both of them are super selective and efficient passers.l that just don’t take many risks.
Ticket is literally arguing FOR Stockton & then used the same reasoning (style, flash, etc) LOW & Marz hold against Stockton to explain why Magic ranks above him.
For the people who actually played high level basketball…they know the hardest thing to do is score when you’re being scouted. Imagine knowing the pick and roll was coming and not being able to stop it. That’s how great a passer Stock was.
@@clauzelmoutima6490 yes they helped develop that with each other! Stockton set up the passes anywhere and Malone developed that game to hit the midrange and down low that was from their admission! What’s re you talking about
The problem is they think Marz and LOW are slandering Stockton, the arguments you have to put Magic over Stockton in terms of best PASSER (more than just assist numbers) are the same arguments you can make for Jokic. Idk why this notion that assists make you a better passer runs so deep for every other player but saying Magic was a better passer than Stockton gets no pushback even tho Stockton averaged more assists and ended with way more all time. Stockton being a top 7-8 passer all time is slander? Thats news to me
Magic averaged over 11apg for his career while Stockton averaged 10.5. That's why he's a better passer, and also how he did passed. So its not about the raw longevity numbers that seem to get pushed nowadays.
I believe passing now is overrated players can get into their “deep bag “ of illegal moves after a pass 6 dribbles and it’s an assist when back then you had to shoot the ball as soon as the pass comes to you for an assist
@@remnant8898 These comparisons aren't valid. The first disclaimer is that Erving "Magic" Johnson is NOT a traditional true Point Guard, giving him a height advantage enough to where he played Center in his first playoff run with the Lakers. So that advantage disqualifies him as a traditional Point Guard. The second factor NOT being mentioned is that Erving Johnson has only a 13 year career while John Stockton has a 19 year career so Johnson has numbers that are crammed into a short span which is why his average is higher but if you fit John Stockton' career in a 13 year span his average will most likely be over 13 assist a game out passing Erving "Magic" Johnson.😎
Yes, Stockton is overrated as a passer. Steph doesn't post high assist numbers but if he was out in that system he'd average 10 assists too. If you are the guy for the team and is the offense generator you get more credit. Even more so when you constantly pull off passes that have a higher degree of difficulty which I've never seen from Stockton and I have seen for Jokic.
Low:There's Several Ways To Pass Outside Of Pick And Roll So The Fact That You're Highlighting Pick And Roll Further Proves My Point that Jokic is a better passer Bobby:'That Doesn't Further Anything Basketball Is Basketball It's Not Math 2+2=2"💀
Stockton will forever be both blessed and cursed to be associated with Karl Malone. That being said, Stockton played 10 games without Malone, and while that is a really small sample size, Stockton did average 9.6 assists per game in those 10 games, 6 of which were double-digit assists that includes a 20 assist performance against the Mavs in the 88-89 season, so Stockton could definitely generate great numbers without Malone
@@chrishansen8119 He relied on the pick and roll most because that was his most effective weapon, it was definitely NOT the only thing he was good at. He was more than capable of hitting every pass in the book, including the Magic Johnson style no look/behind the back/through the defenders legs-style passes, there's countless footage and highlights of him doing them in multiple games too, so let's not act as if Stockton was a one-dimensional passer
@chris Hansen bro dude just saying that’s why he got the number is only pick and roll… LOL watch his games dude not just pick n roll but even when he is guarded an you can do that hard pass they know it’s coming and the guy makes the pass and high percentage do it. If it gets points do it while they know it’s coming , called GG GN over
@@chrishansen8119he was superb on the break. And an underrated shooter as well. Though as Isiah has mentioned, he probably could've shot/scored a little more.
Nah it just proves he played in the same system that made Deron Williams look like John Stockton 2.0 and Carlos Boozer look like Karl Malone 0.5 When those guys left that system they weren’t nearly as good and never won a ring just like Malone and Stockton under Jerry Sloan.
Magic Johnson is easily and forever the GOAT passer. That's never really gonna change (unless Jokic does it for longer). That comment is exactly why Stockton gets overrated. He heavily benefited from playing in the same PnR heavy system with the same elite big for all his career. If anything, he benefited most from Malone's ability to finish the ball, regardless of defense. Kudos to their longevity, but they had a symbiotic relationship on the court that bolstered their production, resulting in Malone being top 3 all time in points and Stockton's assist record. That is backed up by BOTH of those guys also being top 5 all time in total turnovers. Because majority of the Jazz's gameplan for almost 20 years was Stockton delivering the ball to Malone. So you'd either intercept a pass to Malone (turnover on Stockton) or stripping Malone trying to score (turnover on Malone). Now I'm not saying Stockton was bad. In fact, he's one of the most consistent players ever, and sustained his play for a laudable amount of time. But as I watched him, with his very basic and fundamentally grounded passing style and delivery, I can't put him over passers like Magic, Nash, LeBron, Jokic, or CP3. LeBron is the all-time leader in points, but you still wouldn't label him as a better scorer than MJ, Kobe, or KD.
Stockton never had the passing ability Nash, Magic, Kidd or even CP3 ever did with how they were distributing, no behind the backs, under the legs, around the hip pass, no looks where the defenses actually get passed by the pass they make rather than relying on the Jazz offensive motion which Stockton waits until the open player is there to receive the pass relative to the rules of exposing the defender has to guard the open man on the arc or if he actually passes on fast breaks or floating it to Malone perfectly, the players cp3, Magic, Kidd and Nash create those moments when the play breaks down from the defense… which partly makes them better playmakers than Stockton.
To answer LOWs point.. if Stockton gets the ball to Malone with a head of steam going to the rim or deep in post position, then yes. That indeed is a quality look.
Just like bro you didn’t listen to the question, he said if you pick and pop but Karl Malones man stays with him and defends him, Stockton passes Karl the ball and Karl scores, is that a “quality” look? The answer is no because a quality look is an easy shot for a player not a tough one
@ctrlawpdelete8266 I sort of agree. If I find a big slashing to the basket and they finish the layup over someone that's not that tough of a look for a pro. Every game we can see a quality big that is skilled score against defense and sometimes we say "that's too easy for him".
I think there are a lot of pg skill wise better then Stockton, but there are so many stats people overlook. Stockton played 82 games 16 seasons out of 19 and one season he played 78 games. His last 4 seasons he played 82 games and averaged 30min a game. Not to mention he played in 182 postseason games averaging 37min a game. He was always on the court, and never missed games.
Tucker your nuts bro , at least he played , and again dude in the era where defense was elite! Lol these dudes not days sit and make money while playing 42 games and make there career twice of what Stockton was . 2+2=4 and know Stockton cut a 1/4 of his time he would have done 4-5 years longer
That's facts. A majority of his production is due to his availability. The man was an iron man. But still, there're plenty of other PG's and facilitators that still are objectively better, and have shown more variety in their playmaking ability.
Jokic is a better passer than stockton. Assists arent even close to the whole story. Jokic has way more passing versatility and consistently finds higher quality looks(highest layup assist percentage among anyone averaging 5+ assists this season).
@@jeremiahsmith7706 I mean yeah but I don't think it matters if someone is clearly more talented than you. One season of Curry shooting clears anything Ray Allen has ever done regardless of his production.
@@jeremiahsmith7706 Yeah but even then you can be more talented than someone and have less production. Even if HE DID have less production he would OBJECTIVELY be a better shooter.
i love this channel. the panel is probably the pod i've listened the most too. both the shorts and the longer content are fun to watch and you guys debating are more fun to listen to then any other pod ive listened too (which is probably less then 7 but idc). if you guys keep thisup you'll be humongous on this platform
The Stockton slander corny and wack he’s a legend for a reason. It’s always gonna be Stockton got those assists because Malone was so good and Malone only got those points because Stockton was so good
@@Tkyoking What points? Jokic is playing against horrendous defense and doesn’t have a better assist to turnover ratio than Stockton who did it in a much more difficult era. How many guys are getting 5 assist for every turnover in a game? His point talking like assists have no place in a discussion about playmaking and passing. Bringing up Mark Jackson was nasty too because Mark got an assist to turnover ratio of 3.3.
@@ubereats3047you people are never honest. Jokic is asked to do a lot more than Stockton as well. If jokic didn’t have to worry about scoring like Stockton, then jokic would be averaging 14 plus assists a game.
@@tommartyn524 exactly. Jokic is scoring at an elite level while being arguably the best passer in basketball. Stockton had to be a facilitator only and that hurt his team more than helped honestly
@@ubereats3047 I think the broader point he’s making is assists aren’t the end all be all jokic is a crazy example but like they said in the full live there are players they have as a better passer than Stockton despite him having more assists that’s the point I think is important
That actually goes against him, look if you take a version of Stockton where he’s a better scorer his passes become easy because of his scoring ablity. And just bc something is more difficult doesn’t make it better.
Bob packed low a lunch and dropped him at school -- low ain’t played Bob so he can’t understand what’s a good shot for Malone ain’t a good shot for everyone else -- he don’t get it
It all depends on what you value. If Stockton played today, I’d literally rather have tyrese haliburton over him. Stocktons hype comes from longevity more than skill
Many slight him cause he was seldom flashy. His passes often were not breathtaking like Magic's or Nash or the Pistol. But he almost always made the right pass.
Low has never played basketball , and it shows . In the NBA 79% of shots are contested . The reason these nba players are great is because they make more contested shots than the average baller . The higher level you play the more consistently you will get contested. If you get the ball and never shoot because you think it will be contested then you can go sit down and watch . You have to take shots that are contested
@@realsinceday1632 my response literally proved how flawed your logic is. I didn’t watch Hakeem play but I still think he’s the best center of all time.
@@JG4TheGOAT is he not the all time leader in assist, was he on the Dream Team for scoring or facilitating? He's one of the reasons Malone is top 5 In scoring(not the main) plus either fancy or basic passes he made it happen.
This podcast lost all credibility when y’all said Scottie pippen is not a top 5 and Dominique is better 😂😂 maybe y’all should just get real jobs cause this ain’t it
The boys definitely knocked Stockton before. Stockton is one of the most hard nosed, gritty, and fundamentally sound guards of all time. Factoring in someone contesting a shot is a moot point
Lebrons assists come so much from just being a dominant scorer and teams doubling him and him just sniping his teammates. While Stockton came in every game against defenses anticipating bis passing
@@waltjones6927 dudes about to be #1 all time lol. Whoever says he ain’t a scorer is just trying to separate him from Kobe and Jordan cause they know he’ll never be looked at as a better scorer. But Lebrons main aspect is his scoring dominance obviously
@@MrOmabeastagreed his main thing is scoring. This whole pass first stuff was used back when he was drafted he is MJ mixed Magic nonsense. He doesn’t play like neither one of those guys.
That’s the old head in you talking. Jokic is asked to carry the scoring load, the rebound load and the passing load. If jokic only had to average like 15ppg like Kidd Nash and Stockton did, he’d easily average 13 plus assists a game.
Rondo is not a better passer than Jokic as great as he is. And Stockton wasn’t either but they are both great passers and are top 10 or in the conversation for top 10
@@talaf6616 that's not true. Rondo iq and his passing gifts are far above jokic. Never seen jokic pass as impressively as rondo. ever. How can you compare a player who uses passing as their main attribute to a player who is a willing passer. You sound ridiculous
For those confused why Magic would be conidered the best passer of all time. Stockton has more total assists because Magic retired young due to HIV. Magic is the all time leader in assists per game, plus his assists resulted in all time great teams and Championships. Magic is also not only the all time leader in assists per game in the playoffs but is also the all time leader in total playoff assists. Stockton is #2 all time in assists per game AND #2 in assist to turnover ratio behind CP3. Stockton's ability to pass helped the Jazz make 2 Finals and 5 Western Confrence Finals.
Magic retired in his 12th season at age 31 (not necessarily young for the NBA) with 9921 assists. In Stockton's 12th season he had 11,310. Stockton has the most 1000 assist seasons in the NBA. Magic has zero. Even if Magic stayed healthy and played for 5 more seasons until he was 36, all 82 games each season, and averaged his career assist average of 11.2, he ends up with 14,733. Stockton's total is at 15,806. So, even if we give magic a favorable and highly unlikely outcome, Stockton would still have PASSED him for the all time record with 1073 more dimes (pun intended).
There’s very few times a players can make a pass to a wide open player in general no matter who’s the passer. Low is a numbers guy definitely doesn’t know real X’s & O’s
a quality look for a HOF and a quality look for a role player are two completely different things. if he’s gettin it to someone that can knock it down, “quality look” or not it’s a good pass bc he’s feeding it to the star of the team that can make those shots. with his argument any pg that’s playing with a hall of fame talent scorer should have stockton numbers in assists. but they don’t. hell derek fisher should lead the league in all time assists. he played with shaq and kobe. who takes more contested shots than those two? it’s crazy the disrespect these guys throw on some legends names
A great pass in basketball has no bearing on whether someone makes a shot just like a great pass in football has no bearing on whether someone makes a catch
I’ve been watching the show from November and I hand to stand up and clap my hands on this one. Hats off to Bobby Chill and TICKET. That was a family Cookout with all the seasonings on Low and Mars. Basketball is a game of reaction and split decisions and for Stockton to average those assists in that era vs the era we are in now when you have more time to process decision making and reads with less pressure due to the watered down defense what the old guard is saying are facts. Jokic is great but you can’t disrespect Stockton who averaged more in a more difficult time and competed with Jordan. Jokic atleast gotta win more in the playoffs to cement his value and production. Good shit yall
Off the strength on how you overrate Jokic (and Harden) with using mostly stats vs what those stats actually equate to when it’s time to take your team to the next level. Jokic hasn’t even got on a NBA Finals stage and early in his career and he’s already proven to be a better passer then THE ALL TIME LEADER 😂. That’s madness bruv.
That's a terrible take. The NBA is a much faster pace than it's ever been, so split second decisions would be much more prevalent now than when Stockton was playing. 90s offense, especially the one Stockton ran, was extremely stagnant and relied on the pick and roll with one of the best PFs at the time.
It’s only the guys that can’t put on shoes and go to a gym and even score 5 that talk about legends crazy . Hoopers respect all those before them no matter the level.
a “good shot” doesn’t exist. karl Malone was that good. a bad shot to a random pf in the league is a great shot for Malone. everything is not the same in basketball. idk what low or why low asked that
The real answer to Low’s question- If you put the ball in the hands of someone that’s in a position to do what it is he’s known for with his game, it’s a good decision, a good pass and a quality look!
Yall overate Stockton😐 can't even pick a game where he went off because most of us didn't watch Stockton even when he was playing. Yall look at that record and those stats instead of bringing up a game that represents why he has the Assist record ex. That 20 20 on Mgaic
I have not seen anyone be a more efficient passer than John Stockton. He always put his teammates in a high % situation. He also had the quickest first step of all time. His "problem"is that he is all steak and no sizzle. His bounce pass was unstoppable and everybody in the bldg. knew it was coming. Someone actually painstakingly went through every game and took away all the assists John made to Karl. Stockton is merely the 2nd all time assist leader without the Mailman. Passing to such juggernauts as Blue Edwards, and Tyrone Corbin. Imagine if he had a stacked Lakers team like Magic? He'd average 20 assists a game in his sleep.
Low’s question about quality looks on a pick and pop isn’t a YES or NO question. There’s too many players on the court to consider if it’s a good look or not.
@@SkodenMOC Steve Nash is a beast but it’s hard to justify him being better than Stockton. Slightly better offense but way worse defense and worse longevity.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing i think the offense is the same gap if not better than the defensive gap. Steve Nash was a S tier offensive player with the highest efficiency in his era (having 4x 50/40/90 szn), led the league in assists as well as having a higher volume scoring (especially in postseasons that contributed to winning a series) Nash was just the next gen version of Stockton, worse defender but perfected the offensive style as a pass first shoot second player. Nash in his era majority was a top 90 or at best top 45 scorer where as Stockton was a top 120 or at best top 60 scorer in a era with lesser players becuz of lesser teams until the expansion. And i did used to think Stockton was better until actually watching both players games and comparing their numbers of their eras as well as mvp voting which hurt stockton’s case
@@SkodenMOC How are you going to use the era/expansion excuse when the played 7 seasons in the same NBA? I agree that Nash was incredibly efficient. Guess who also was incredibly efficient? The 6’1 guard who shot 60.8% true shooting for his career on 54% 2pt, 38% 3pt and 82.6% FT.
@@SkodenMOC Don’t get me wrong Nash was nice but Stock is thee epitome of point guard play above magic too Magic is just better all around because of his height and abilities to play all positions if needed
The one thing this channel needs is some good moderating. Countless time someon asks a question and THEN SOMEONE ANSWERS, and just because they don’t like the answer, they automatically say “you didn’t answer the question” just because you can’t comprehend or dislike an answer that doesn’t mean it’s not an adequate answer. It’s actually very simple debating form.
Low and marz getting on my nerves. Thinking watching part of games on TH-cam is enough to give their opinion on one of the best pgs ever. This slander gotta stop.
Go and watch a 90’s basketball game and you will player bring left wide open for long two’s and three’s. Every team packed the paint. I hate the argument that “dudes back then just paid more attention to detail in defense and didn’t give up wide open looks”. Everybody was open they just didn’t shoot as many threes back then. Making defense far easier
They had to pay more attention back in the day because it was no help defense but then at the same time they could be dirty and do a lot of things on defense because it was allowed
There is no debate.. do you wanna know how cold John Stockton was? MY MOMMA called him John stocks and bonds!! And she was a die hard BULLS FAN!! I remember being a kid watchin those games and hearin her say that’s John stocks and bonds He’s good and Phil gotta put some defense on him!! I will always have respect for John Stockton for that alone even my mom knew who he was
Y’all are so much better than ESPN and fox. Eventually, you guys will be able to do to hour long shows I’m manifesting 500 K subscribers by the end of the year.
You can definitely tell low ain’t never hooped. Idc how many videos stats you look up and analyze there’s just some stuff that you will never understand if you don’t play frfr.
6:01 Big Ox just cuz we have played ball doesn’t mean LOW understands the game any less he clearly stated quality looks which are open shots or catching your player in mismatch or some type of advantage Stockton did not do that in a consistent basis atleast not as much as the top 5 passers/playmakers ever. All of those players in the top 5 ran plays just as good if not better as John Stockton did while managing to get their teammates those quality looks LOW is referring to
Jokic a better offensive player than Kobe better passer than Stockton So amazing a guy can be the best ever on the offensive end & we got 2nd rd bounce a bubble run which is basically a summer league tournament with no fans 2nd rd bounce and a 1st rd bounce The 'best offensive center ever" has 8 years of an Anthony Davis like impact on a team. Keep looking at stats in the weakest defensive era of basketball ever..it'll get you where you are.
Stockton may not be a top 5 point guard, Magic, Curry, CP3, Nash and Isiah got that wrapped, but he is still one of the best passers of all time and a top 10 pg comfortably
honestly low just pointing out inconsistencies in they arguments, he not really even part of the argument cuz he s just critiquing dudes argumentative skills.
John Stockton is one of the most consistant players of all time He led the league in assist like 10 times All time leader in assist How is that not consistant Man avg 14.5 apg one year and 13.5 the other hahaha they just hatin
How many rings?? Assists are over rated...it just means you got a squad that can't create its own shots. The greatest players with rings didn't need a Stockton
Taking credit away from someone for running a pick and roll is like taking credit away from Terrell Owens or Randy Moss for scoring TD’s on play action passes
4 years averaged 17 pts 14 assists 3 steals had 18 assists 65 times 20 assists 8 times nobody else has more than 2. Most assisted games at 1-28 only record he doesn't have is highest single game of 30 he has everything else. Had he retired at year 13 hed have career average of 16 and 13 with a 5 to 1 asst turnovers
All he is saying is you can't use assists alone. Stockton while excelling in the assists department falls short of every other great passer when it comes to quality of passes and difficulty of passes.
if you have the ball in your hand alot you’re gonna rack up assists. You can’t just go off assists when you’re trying to figure out how good of a passer someone is
@@Ginger2882. Bro wth how the hell can you measure that without going back and watching an ass amount of games like do yall here yall selves this convo is fucking dumb
At 7:26 is really where the whole debate dies imo. Ticket spoke all facts. The shit y’all are in awe over now, John Stockton did it majority of his career… but better and avg more doing it in a tougher era. Y’all have to be old enough and have seen John play and not just look at highlights and stats. Also, you gotta be a hooper to under what a quality pass is as well. If you’re a true hooper with great intellect, you know John Stockton wasn’t a scrub.
Naw Mara and low be lying lol they def said joker was a better offensive player then kobe when they talked about this. I know because I turned the video off when they said that crazy stuff
@@JG4TheGOAT soo he better at offense but not scoring ? Lol that’s Still cap n you def said scoter too cause they asked you n you said yes joker is the better scorer
Jeff Hornacek? Jeff Malone? Thurl Bailey? Blue Edwards? etc. Y’all think it’s just Karl? Cmon John made himself the 3rd-4th scoring option. He really ran the offense and always optimized where the ball went.
Neither Jeff was with the jazz that long. Though each was underrated. Blue and Thurl were above avg, nothing exceptional. Eaton was a specialist.
There’s a misconception that Stockton is only the all time assist leader because of a longer career most people are unaware of the fact that he holds several single season records in that category with less turnovers then magic his apg decreased cause of less minutes played he also broke the record 8 years before he even retired so he could have retired 4 or 5 years earlier
Wel that’s also given the context of how fast and risky a lot of magics game was. He could be extremely efficient but his game was predicated on keeping the defense on their toes off the fastbreak. A lot of his stuff was on the move at top speed and he was super flashy and threw alot of fastballs. That style of play would obviously lead to more turnovers. Stockton was more selective and played more in the halfcourt then magic. His spacing was also a lot better than what magic had to work with in the earth 80s when the three had only just become an option in magic rookie year. Magic was more on the lebron scale of passers. He drew alot of attention because of the break neck pace he played at and he was also a bigger threat to score driving or the rim and posting up. I’d compare Stockton more to cp3. Both of them are super selective and efficient passers.l that just don’t take many risks.
10.5 for a career is Goat status
Less turnover:assist could also mean a more conservative approach to the game which translate in a lot of passing to the iso scorer.
John Stockton is a glorified Mark Jackson imho. I would take modern point guards with better skills over him.
stockton and jason kidd also played the same amount of years yet,, stockton is like 3,000 assist more. Even though kidd had better teammates.
The Stockton slander is outrageous wow
Listening to people that don’t know ball 🤦🏽♂️
Stockton is factually overrated. He's a great pg and HOFer, but plenty if pgs would've won at least 1 title alongside Malone, probably 2-3.
Ticket is literally arguing FOR Stockton & then used the same reasoning (style, flash, etc) LOW & Marz hold against Stockton to explain why Magic ranks above him.
Coach told me when I first started paying basketball “most times the simple pass is the best pass” 😊
For the people who actually played high level basketball…they know the hardest thing to do is score when you’re being scouted. Imagine knowing the pick and roll was coming and not being able to stop it. That’s how great a passer Stock was.
Lol no, that's how great of a scorer Karl Malone was
@@VoltageMarvelexactly
@@VoltageMarvelno Stockton made Malone that scorer
@@raianalam4201 john stockton didn't make number 32 be able to make contested shots and bang in the low post stop it
@@clauzelmoutima6490 yes they helped develop that with each other! Stockton set up the passes anywhere and Malone developed that game to hit the midrange and down low that was from their admission! What’s re you talking about
If LOW was in the NBA he’d be the best screen setter in the league
Lmao
Lol
No cap you foul for that 😂😂
I’m late but 😭😭😭😭😂😂😂
Haha tiago splitter
The problem is they think Marz and LOW are slandering Stockton, the arguments you have to put Magic over Stockton in terms of best PASSER (more than just assist numbers) are the same arguments you can make for Jokic. Idk why this notion that assists make you a better passer runs so deep for every other player but saying Magic was a better passer than Stockton gets no pushback even tho Stockton averaged more assists and ended with way more all time. Stockton being a top 7-8 passer all time is slander? Thats news to me
Magic averaged over 11apg for his career while Stockton averaged 10.5. That's why he's a better passer, and also how he did passed. So its not about the raw longevity numbers that seem to get pushed nowadays.
I believe passing now is overrated players can get into their “deep bag “ of illegal moves after a pass 6 dribbles and it’s an assist when back then you had to shoot the ball as soon as the pass comes to you for an assist
@@remnant8898 These comparisons aren't valid. The first disclaimer is that Erving "Magic" Johnson is NOT a traditional true Point Guard, giving him a height advantage enough to where he played Center in his first playoff run with the Lakers. So that advantage disqualifies him as a traditional Point Guard. The second factor NOT being mentioned is that Erving Johnson has only a 13 year career while John Stockton has a 19 year career so Johnson has numbers that are crammed into a short span which is why his average is higher but if you fit John Stockton' career in a 13 year span his average will most likely be over 13 assist a game out passing Erving "Magic" Johnson.😎
Yes, Stockton is overrated as a passer. Steph doesn't post high assist numbers but if he was out in that system he'd average 10 assists too. If you are the guy for the team and is the offense generator you get more credit. Even more so when you constantly pull off passes that have a higher degree of difficulty which I've never seen from Stockton and I have seen for Jokic.
@@dreskee8422 that doesn't help your case in the postseason tho. Magic has the most assists in NBA playoff history
Low:There's Several Ways To Pass Outside Of Pick And Roll So The Fact That You're Highlighting Pick And Roll Further Proves My Point that Jokic is a better passer
Bobby:'That Doesn't Further Anything Basketball Is Basketball It's Not Math 2+2=2"💀
Funny thing is I read that as he said that 😂
Chill holding up four fingers right after is hilarious
Lol low had me heated and I couldn’t think. That was some dumb shit from me for sure… with that being said, it’s Basketball not Mathsketball
@@BIGOXMedialow really don’t know ball like he portrays tbh
Stockton will forever be both blessed and cursed to be associated with Karl Malone. That being said, Stockton played 10 games without Malone, and while that is a really small sample size, Stockton did average 9.6 assists per game in those 10 games, 6 of which were double-digit assists that includes a 20 assist performance against the Mavs in the 88-89 season, so Stockton could definitely generate great numbers without Malone
Yeah, but only in the pick and roll. That was the only thing Stockton was good at, was being the pick and roll passer. He relied on that.
@@chrishansen8119 He relied on the pick and roll most because that was his most effective weapon, it was definitely NOT the only thing he was good at. He was more than capable of hitting every pass in the book, including the Magic Johnson style no look/behind the back/through the defenders legs-style passes, there's countless footage and highlights of him doing them in multiple games too, so let's not act as if Stockton was a one-dimensional passer
@chris Hansen bro dude just saying that’s why he got the number is only pick and roll… LOL watch his games dude not just pick n roll but even when he is guarded an you can do that hard pass they know it’s coming and the guy makes the pass and high percentage do it. If it gets points do it while they know it’s coming , called GG GN over
@@chrishansen8119 dumb take
@@chrishansen8119he was superb on the break. And an underrated shooter as well. Though as Isiah has mentioned, he probably could've shot/scored a little more.
The fact that stockton averages those numbers in an era without elite 3 point shooters, proves he is the goat passer
No it doesn’t df??
Nah it just proves he played in the same system that made Deron Williams look like John Stockton 2.0 and Carlos Boozer look like Karl Malone 0.5 When those guys left that system they weren’t nearly as good and never won a ring just like Malone and Stockton under Jerry Sloan.
Magic Johnson is easily and forever the GOAT passer. That's never really gonna change (unless Jokic does it for longer).
That comment is exactly why Stockton gets overrated. He heavily benefited from playing in the same PnR heavy system with the same elite big for all his career. If anything, he benefited most from Malone's ability to finish the ball, regardless of defense. Kudos to their longevity, but they had a symbiotic relationship on the court that bolstered their production, resulting in Malone being top 3 all time in points and Stockton's assist record.
That is backed up by BOTH of those guys also being top 5 all time in total turnovers. Because majority of the Jazz's gameplan for almost 20 years was Stockton delivering the ball to Malone. So you'd either intercept a pass to Malone (turnover on Stockton) or stripping Malone trying to score (turnover on Malone).
Now I'm not saying Stockton was bad. In fact, he's one of the most consistent players ever, and sustained his play for a laudable amount of time. But as I watched him, with his very basic and fundamentally grounded passing style and delivery, I can't put him over passers like Magic, Nash, LeBron, Jokic, or CP3.
LeBron is the all-time leader in points, but you still wouldn't label him as a better scorer than MJ, Kobe, or KD.
@@jamesonedwardsii4943more like 0.1 karl Malone
Stockton never had the passing ability Nash, Magic, Kidd or even CP3 ever did with how they were distributing, no behind the backs, under the legs, around the hip pass, no looks where the defenses actually get passed by the pass they make rather than relying on the Jazz offensive motion which Stockton waits until the open player is there to receive the pass relative to the rules of exposing the defender has to guard the open man on the arc or if he actually passes on fast breaks or floating it to Malone perfectly, the players cp3, Magic, Kidd and Nash create those moments when the play breaks down from the defense… which partly makes them better playmakers than Stockton.
To answer LOWs point.. if Stockton gets the ball to Malone with a head of steam going to the rim or deep in post position, then yes. That indeed is a quality look.
Just like bro you didn’t listen to the question, he said if you pick and pop but Karl Malones man stays with him and defends him, Stockton passes Karl the ball and Karl scores, is that a “quality” look? The answer is no because a quality look is an easy shot for a player not a tough one
@ctrlawpdelete8266 I sort of agree. If I find a big slashing to the basket and they finish the layup over someone that's not that tough of a look for a pro. Every game we can see a quality big that is skilled score against defense and sometimes we say "that's too easy for him".
@ctrlawpdelete8266 man 😂😂nobody answering the question they just reasking a different question 😂
Stockton & Malone getting crazy promo for their legacies good or bad 😂
Bad if its just to bring up their short comings and weaknesses lol
@@AveryB.0 they wouldn’t be spoken about otherwise
@@Brooklyn94269 this is true
@@Brooklyn94269ci
I think there are a lot of pg skill wise better then Stockton, but there are so many stats people overlook. Stockton played 82 games 16 seasons out of 19 and one season he played 78 games. His last 4 seasons he played 82 games and averaged 30min a game. Not to mention he played in 182 postseason games averaging 37min a game. He was always on the court, and never missed games.
Best ability is availability; that crosses across all sports
Passing is a skill 🙄
Tucker your nuts bro , at least he played , and again dude in the era where defense was elite! Lol these dudes not days sit and make money while playing 42 games and make there career twice of what Stockton was . 2+2=4 and know Stockton cut a 1/4 of his time he would have done 4-5 years longer
So what, you can be on the court and be ass. He is a top 5 pg, there’s not “a lot” better.
That's facts. A majority of his production is due to his availability. The man was an iron man. But still, there're plenty of other PG's and facilitators that still are objectively better, and have shown more variety in their playmaking ability.
Stockton just isn’t flashy and can’t see over defenders like Jokic can. With that being said Stockton is still a better passer
And im ok with tht the guy has a billion assists. Jokic is the best bigman passer by far.
He wasn't assisting as you would think stockton was just overthe head pass wait for karlmalone to score got an assist
Jokic is a better passer than stockton. Assists arent even close to the whole story. Jokic has way more passing versatility and consistently finds higher quality looks(highest layup assist percentage among anyone averaging 5+ assists this season).
Jokic average 9 assists and y'all boys start losing ya shit. Stockton averages 10.5 for his nearly 20 yr career. Production matters
@@jeremiahsmith7706 I mean yeah but I don't think it matters if someone is clearly more talented than you. One season of Curry shooting clears anything Ray Allen has ever done regardless of his production.
@@Sevion825 they both have the production. That's where the talent is the separator
@@jeremiahsmith7706 Yeah but even then you can be more talented than someone and have less production. Even if HE DID have less production he would OBJECTIVELY be a better shooter.
@@Sevion825 there'd be nothing to prove it
John was like quarterback who passed for 250 yards 3 touchdowns zero interceptions every game
A glorified game manager. Not an MVP caliber QB.
He was baker mayfield basically
@@maryannguss9029 No you didn't just compare Baker Mayfield to Stockton imma need you to delete this you must be trolling 😂😂😂
i love this channel. the panel is probably the pod i've listened the most too. both the shorts and the longer content are fun to watch and you guys debating are more fun to listen to then any other pod ive listened too (which is probably less then 7 but idc). if you guys keep thisup you'll be humongous on this platform
When they asked MJ who was the hardest person to check he said John Stockton. Simple
Gary Payton too
Facts
The Stockton slander corny and wack he’s a legend for a reason. It’s always gonna be Stockton got those assists because Malone was so good and Malone only got those points because Stockton was so good
I do think they drag the Stockton slander but low brought up some valid points
@@Tkyoking What points? Jokic is playing against horrendous defense and doesn’t have a better assist to turnover ratio than Stockton who did it in a much more difficult era. How many guys are getting 5 assist for every turnover in a game? His point talking like assists have no place in a discussion about playmaking and passing. Bringing up Mark Jackson was nasty too because Mark got an assist to turnover ratio of 3.3.
@@ubereats3047you people are never honest. Jokic is asked to do a lot more than Stockton as well. If jokic didn’t have to worry about scoring like Stockton, then jokic would be averaging 14 plus assists a game.
@@tommartyn524 exactly. Jokic is scoring at an elite level while being arguably the best passer in basketball. Stockton had to be a facilitator only and that hurt his team more than helped honestly
@@ubereats3047 I think the broader point he’s making is assists aren’t the end all be all jokic is a crazy example but like they said in the full live there are players they have as a better passer than Stockton despite him having more assists that’s the point I think is important
Ticket made an insanely good point with the degree of difficulty take. Wow.
That actually goes against him, look if you take a version of Stockton where he’s a better scorer his passes become easy because of his scoring ablity. And just bc something is more difficult doesn’t make it better.
Bob packed low a lunch and dropped him at school -- low ain’t played Bob so he can’t understand what’s a good shot for Malone ain’t a good shot for everyone else -- he don’t get it
💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿
Not having Stockton as top 5 PG is one of the worst takes this NBA discussion.
It all depends on what you value. If Stockton played today, I’d literally rather have tyrese haliburton over him. Stocktons hype comes from longevity more than skill
He wasn’t flashy enough. This is the consequence of the highlight era 🤷🏾♂️
The take is he isnt a top 5 passer
Magic, zeke, curry, oscar, jerry that's 5 better
@@aug22boi78 curry being a better passer then Stockton is atrocious and I'm a curry stan
The Stockton slander is wild
Many slight him cause he was seldom flashy. His passes often were not breathtaking like Magic's or Nash or the Pistol. But he almost always made the right pass.
Yall gotta realize that just because you’re yelling doesn’t make you right😂
Low has never played basketball , and it shows . In the NBA 79% of shots are contested . The reason these nba players are great is because they make more contested shots than the average baller . The higher level you play the more consistently you will get contested. If you get the ball and never shoot because you think it will be contested then you can go sit down and watch . You have to take shots that are contested
LOWs point is that Jokic creates way more open shots than Stockton did
Ya sitting here arguing with dudes that didn’t even watch Stockton play why are ya wasting ya energy with this
Fuck watching dudes never hooped ever
I’ve never liked that argument. I didn’t see Hakeem play and Hakeem is my favorite center. We just don’t like Stockton that much.
@@tommartyn524 of course you don’t like that argument cuz it applies to ppl like you
@@realsinceday1632 my response literally proved how flawed your logic is. I didn’t watch Hakeem play but I still think he’s the best center of all time.
@@tommartyn524 is my logic flawed or is yours lol
Y'all debating if Stockton is good passer is like debating is Kareem a good scorer....duhhhhhh
We’re not saying he’s a bad passer. We’re saying he’s overrated
noones debating if stocktons a good passer or not everyone agree he was good
@@JG4TheGOAT is he not the all time leader in assist, was he on the Dream Team for scoring or facilitating? He's one of the reasons Malone is top 5 In scoring(not the main) plus either fancy or basic passes he made it happen.
@@tommartyn524 over rated how??? As a PASSER
@Cousin DeeJ overrated in a sense where Jokic is a better passer despite Jokic averaging less assists
On matters including John Stockton, especially in light of recent years, I’ll listen to what players said about him over what the panel says.
This podcast lost all credibility when y’all said Scottie pippen is not a top 5 and Dominique is better 😂😂 maybe y’all should just get real jobs cause this ain’t it
TALK TO EM, CAUSE THEY DONT LISTEN TO ME!!!!
@@BIGOXMedia Shyd how
@@beanzthecomedian open gym, Ticket vs The world, Ask Rufus or Low Knows.
The boys definitely knocked Stockton before. Stockton is one of the most hard nosed, gritty, and fundamentally sound guards of all time. Factoring in someone contesting a shot is a moot point
They mad cause he's white
Lebrons assists come so much from just being a dominant scorer and teams doubling him and him just sniping his teammates. While Stockton came in every game against defenses anticipating bis passing
I thought LeBron wasn't a scorer??
@@waltjones6927
dudes about to be #1 all time lol. Whoever says he ain’t a scorer is just trying to separate him from Kobe and Jordan cause they know he’ll never be looked at as a better scorer. But Lebrons main aspect is his scoring dominance obviously
@@MrOmabeastagreed his main thing is scoring. This whole pass first stuff was used back when he was drafted he is MJ mixed Magic nonsense. He doesn’t play like neither one of those guys.
@@waltjones6927 if u averaging 23ish plus points a game, u're a scorer in my book. i actually say lebron is more of a scorer than a passer.
I hate those takes because most of lebron assists is Lebron standing in one spot picking the defense apart.
Better passers than Jokic. MAGIC STOCKTON NASH KIDD BIRD RONDO....
Rondo’s best year wouldn’t even be a top 5 Stockton year
That’s the old head in you talking. Jokic is asked to carry the scoring load, the rebound load and the passing load. If jokic only had to average like 15ppg like Kidd Nash and Stockton did, he’d easily average 13 plus assists a game.
Rondo is not a better passer than Jokic as great as he is. And Stockton wasn’t either but they are both great passers and are top 10 or in the conversation for top 10
rondo is crazy
@@talaf6616 that's not true. Rondo iq and his passing gifts are far above jokic. Never seen jokic pass as impressively as rondo. ever. How can you compare a player who uses passing as their main attribute to a player who is a willing passer. You sound ridiculous
Stockton was the OG of stamina. His longevity and consistency was never seen before or seen again until LeBron.
For those confused why Magic would be conidered the best passer of all time. Stockton has more total assists because Magic retired young due to HIV. Magic is the all time leader in assists per game, plus his assists resulted in all time great teams and Championships. Magic is also not only the all time leader in assists per game in the playoffs but is also the all time leader in total playoff assists.
Stockton is #2 all time in assists per game AND #2 in assist to turnover ratio behind CP3. Stockton's ability to pass helped the Jazz make 2 Finals and 5 Western Confrence Finals.
Magic retired in his 12th season at age 31 (not necessarily young for the NBA) with 9921 assists. In Stockton's 12th season he had 11,310. Stockton has the most 1000 assist seasons in the NBA. Magic has zero. Even if Magic stayed healthy and played for 5 more seasons until he was 36, all 82 games each season, and averaged his career assist average of 11.2, he ends up with 14,733. Stockton's total is at 15,806. So, even if we give magic a favorable and highly unlikely outcome, Stockton would still have PASSED him for the all time record with 1073 more dimes (pun intended).
IM DRAFTING ATLEAST 8 PGS BEFORE I GET TO J.STOCKTON. He’s ranked accurately,he’s a really good player but alltime we gotta rank him correctly.
Shyyyt I’m taking a player like tyrese haliburton over Stockton
Prisoners of the Moment 😂😂😂 nigga said Haliburton can y’all let these young niggas play they career out before comparing them to Hall of Famers
@@tommartyn524 Haliburton is crazy HAHAHA
@@tommartyn524 you’re not wrong. My eyes are not lying to me.
There’s very few times a players can make a pass to a wide open player in general no matter who’s the passer. Low is a numbers guy definitely doesn’t know real X’s & O’s
Lets just be real, if Stockton was black he is top 3 pg all time.
lol
FACTS!! People hate to admit that
The man didn't have a left hand. I'm sorry but you can't be too anything if you can't dribble with both hands
No tf he wouldn't
If jokic avg 15 a game like stockon usually did we would not be having this convo. Jokic is overall better but he isnt the playmaker that stockon is
😂 Jokic not the playmaker Stockton is?😂 Stockton is not even in the same universe in terms of playmaking
a quality look for a HOF and a quality look for a role player are two completely different things. if he’s gettin it to someone that can knock it down, “quality look” or not it’s a good pass bc he’s feeding it to the star of the team that can make those shots. with his argument any pg that’s playing with a hall of fame talent scorer should have stockton numbers in assists. but they don’t. hell derek fisher should lead the league in all time assists. he played with shaq and kobe. who takes more contested shots than those two? it’s crazy the disrespect these guys throw on some legends names
Why would Derek fisher lead the league in assists if Shaq and Kobe handle the ball more than him??
A great pass in basketball has no bearing on whether someone makes a shot just like a great pass in football has no bearing on whether someone makes a catch
13:25 LoW: Nobody said anything about assists, we said passing player😮😂🤯 SMFH. Just talking to talk.
The purpose of the pick and pop puts 6'9 Karl Malone to shoot his knockdown 15 ft shot over a 6'3 point guard on the switch... 🤷🏾♂️.
I’ve been watching the show from November and I hand to stand up and clap my hands on this one. Hats off to Bobby Chill and TICKET. That was a family Cookout with all the seasonings on Low and Mars. Basketball is a game of reaction and split decisions and for Stockton to average those assists in that era vs the era we are in now when you have more time to process decision making and reads with less pressure due to the watered down defense what the old guard is saying are facts. Jokic is great but you can’t disrespect Stockton who averaged more in a more difficult time and competed with Jordan. Jokic atleast gotta win more in the playoffs to cement his value and production. Good shit yall
i barely said anything why is my name even here
Off the strength on how you overrate Jokic (and Harden) with using mostly stats vs what those stats actually equate to when it’s time to take your team to the next level. Jokic hasn’t even got on a NBA Finals stage and early in his career and he’s already proven to be a better passer then THE ALL TIME LEADER 😂. That’s madness bruv.
That's a terrible take. The NBA is a much faster pace than it's ever been, so split second decisions would be much more prevalent now than when Stockton was playing.
90s offense, especially the one Stockton ran, was extremely stagnant and relied on the pick and roll with one of the best PFs at the time.
@@chrishansen8119 not on defense though
@@chrishansen8119 60s was faster and so was ABA. Stop lying
Imagine being a grown man and screaming about John Stockton😂
It’s only the guys that can’t put on shoes and go to a gym and even score 5 that talk about legends crazy . Hoopers respect all those before them no matter the level.
Don't need to play ball to know ball
a “good shot” doesn’t exist. karl Malone was that good. a bad shot to a random pf in the league is a great shot for Malone. everything is not the same in basketball. idk what low or why low asked that
That’s what I was confused about as well.
The real answer to Low’s question- If you put the ball in the hands of someone that’s in a position to do what it is he’s known for with his game, it’s a good decision, a good pass and a quality look!
Yall overate Stockton😐 can't even pick a game where he went off because most of us didn't watch Stockton even when he was playing. Yall look at that record and those stats instead of bringing up a game that represents why he has the Assist record ex. That 20 20 on Mgaic
Too many young minds
If it matters if jokic plays with quality players but it doesn't matter who Stockton played with the Stockton is the better passer... right
I have not seen anyone be a more efficient passer than John Stockton. He always put his teammates in a high % situation. He also had the quickest first step of all time. His "problem"is that he is all steak and no sizzle. His bounce pass was unstoppable and everybody in the bldg. knew it was coming. Someone actually painstakingly went through every game and took away all the assists John made to Karl. Stockton is merely the 2nd all time assist leader without the Mailman. Passing to such juggernauts as Blue Edwards, and Tyrone Corbin. Imagine if he had a stacked Lakers team like Magic? He'd average 20 assists a game in his sleep.
Black privilege. We don't acknowledge them having lower standards than us
The Stockton disrespect is crazy nowadays. Modern era with all these shooters and high flyers he’s averaging 15 assists a game 😂
Shiid more than that
Low’s question about quality looks on a pick and pop isn’t a YES or NO question. There’s too many players on the court to consider if it’s a good look or not.
This is sooooo disrespectful Stockton is ten levels above anyone in this era outside of CP3 who’s still playing
The Steve Nash disrespect is crazy.
@@SkodenMOC Steve Nash is a beast but it’s hard to justify him being better than Stockton. Slightly better offense but way worse defense and worse longevity.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing i think the offense is the same gap if not better than the defensive gap. Steve Nash was a S tier offensive player with the highest efficiency in his era (having 4x 50/40/90 szn), led the league in assists as well as having a higher volume scoring (especially in postseasons that contributed to winning a series) Nash was just the next gen version of Stockton, worse defender but perfected the offensive style as a pass first shoot second player.
Nash in his era majority was a top 90 or at best top 45 scorer where as Stockton was a top 120 or at best top 60 scorer in a era with lesser players becuz of lesser teams until the expansion. And i did used to think Stockton was better until actually watching both players games and comparing their numbers of their eras as well as mvp voting which hurt stockton’s case
@@SkodenMOC How are you going to use the era/expansion excuse when the played 7 seasons in the same NBA? I agree that Nash was incredibly efficient. Guess who also was incredibly efficient? The 6’1 guard who shot 60.8% true shooting for his career on 54% 2pt, 38% 3pt and 82.6% FT.
@@SkodenMOC Don’t get me wrong Nash was nice but Stock is thee epitome of point guard play above magic too Magic is just better all around because of his height and abilities to play all positions if needed
Stockton is a 🐐 top 3 passer of all time
The one thing this channel needs is some good moderating. Countless time someon asks a question and THEN SOMEONE ANSWERS, and just because they don’t like the answer, they automatically say “you didn’t answer the question” just because you can’t comprehend or dislike an answer that doesn’t mean it’s not an adequate answer. It’s actually very simple debating form.
This didn’t happen once, OX just didn’t answer LOWs question
I had respect for low.. but you can tell the difference between a 2k player and someone who’s played organized basketball. He almost sounds foolish 😂
If anyone can do what Stockton did, how come the Jazz never replaced him during his entire career?
Can’t replace that guy! Stockton goat
@@Cmorrill7 exactly
Low got a dart board with john stockton on the bullseye
You'd almost swear Stockton touched him when he was a child.
A quality look is when you are open for a high percentage shot not a contested or guarded shot
Low and marz getting on my nerves. Thinking watching part of games on TH-cam is enough to give their opinion on one of the best pgs ever. This slander gotta stop.
Part of games?? U watch the game and analysis it that's how it's done wtf
Low is being TOO technical with it. Just come out and say Stockton is not a flashy player, and you don't like that he isn't.
Go and watch a 90’s basketball game and you will player bring left wide open for long two’s and three’s. Every team packed the paint. I hate the argument that “dudes back then just paid more attention to detail in defense and didn’t give up wide open looks”. Everybody was open they just didn’t shoot as many threes back then. Making defense far easier
They had to pay more attention back in the day because it was no help defense but then at the same time they could be dirty and do a lot of things on defense because it was allowed
There is no debate.. do you wanna know how cold John Stockton was? MY MOMMA
called him John stocks and bonds!! And she was a die hard BULLS FAN!! I remember being a kid watchin those games and hearin her say that’s John stocks and bonds He’s good and Phil gotta put some defense on him!!
I will always have respect for John Stockton for that alone even my mom knew who he was
A couple of guys on this panel never seen Stockton play no one born before 80 should be on this panel
I thought 2+2 was 4 😂😂😂😂😂
The old heads lost this one. I just listened to Chill and Ticket make the case for Low and Marz.
Y’all are so much better than ESPN and fox. Eventually, you guys will be able to do to hour long shows I’m manifesting 500 K subscribers by the end of the year.
I honestly think some of these so called experts didn't even seen stockton
The disrespect of Stockton is beyond delusional
I refuse to argue with somebody about basketball that never played organized ball because all they gonna do is give u numbers
You can definitely tell low ain’t never hooped. Idc how many videos stats you look up and analyze there’s just some stuff that you will never understand if you don’t play frfr.
6:01 Big Ox just cuz we have played ball doesn’t mean LOW understands the game any less he clearly stated quality looks which are open shots or catching your player in mismatch or some type of advantage Stockton did not do that in a consistent basis atleast not as much as the top 5 passers/playmakers ever. All of those players in the top 5 ran plays just as good if not better as John Stockton did while managing to get their teammates those quality looks LOW is referring to
J kidd, gary Payton, c Barkley, wilt chamberlain say hes the best point guard. Magic is 1 Stockton 2
Jokic a better offensive player than Kobe
better passer than Stockton
So amazing a guy can be the best ever on the offensive end & we got
2nd rd bounce
a bubble run which is basically a summer league tournament with no fans
2nd rd bounce
and a 1st rd bounce
The 'best offensive center ever" has 8 years of an Anthony Davis like impact on a team.
Keep looking at stats in the weakest defensive era of basketball ever..it'll get you where you are.
You could have saved yourself all the time it took you to write that and just say instead "I am a casual" and move on.
Still in disbelief this channel has the viewers it does.
Y’all really watch these casual argue all day. OG the only 1 that know the game
Stockton may not be a top 5 point guard, Magic, Curry, CP3, Nash and Isiah got that wrapped, but he is still one of the best passers of all time and a top 10 pg comfortably
You don't know Stockton, as tough skilled, and smart as they get, missed 22 games in 19 seasons
@@hairjordan2620 that’s great, doesn’t mean we should have him top 5.
@@hairjordan2620wow real cool, still gets cooked by everybody mocdude named.
@@chrishansen8119 major L
@@hairjordan2620 you mean like all the L's Stockton consistently took? 9 points in the finals and y'all still ride this man lmao
honestly low just pointing out inconsistencies in they arguments, he not really even part of the argument cuz he s just critiquing dudes argumentative skills.
John Stockton is one of the most consistant players of all time
He led the league in assist like 10 times
All time leader in assist
How is that not consistant
Man avg 14.5 apg one year and 13.5 the other hahaha they just hatin
How many rings??
Assists are over rated...it just means you got a squad that can't create its own shots. The greatest players with rings didn't need a Stockton
why is this an ad
This Stockton slander is WILD asf
Marz did say that about jokic and kobe. He said he was better than shaq, and since shaq was better than kobe jokic was better. He did say that
i said jokic was a better offensive player not that jokic was a better scorer,and i stand on what i said
Taking credit away from someone for running a pick and roll is like taking credit away from Terrell Owens or Randy Moss for scoring TD’s on play action passes
4 years averaged 17 pts 14 assists 3 steals had 18 assists 65 times 20 assists 8 times nobody else has more than 2. Most assisted games at 1-28 only record he doesn't have is highest single game of 30 he has everything else. Had he retired at year 13 hed have career average of 16 and 13 with a 5 to 1 asst turnovers
Low is using the terms “playmaking” and “passing” as if assists aren’t included in those. He sounds foolish on this one
All he is saying is you can't use assists alone. Stockton while excelling in the assists department falls short of every other great passer when it comes to quality of passes and difficulty of passes.
if you have the ball in your hand alot you’re gonna rack up assists. You can’t just go off assists when you’re trying to figure out how good of a passer someone is
@@Ginger2882. He surpasses them in turnover ratio and pick and roll Playmaking though
@@MegaKhalid121 Name one person who isn’t ball dominant that averaged a lot of assists
@@Ginger2882. Bro wth how the hell can you measure that without going back and watching an ass amount of games like do yall here yall selves this convo is fucking dumb
Stockton and Malone benefited from each other.
I believe both would be worse players w/o each other
At 7:26 is really where the whole debate dies imo. Ticket spoke all facts. The shit y’all are in awe over now, John Stockton did it majority of his career… but better and avg more doing it in a tougher era. Y’all have to be old enough and have seen John play and not just look at highlights and stats. Also, you gotta be a hooper to under what a quality pass is as well. If you’re a true hooper with great intellect, you know John Stockton wasn’t a scrub.
As soon as they started saying why Magic is over Stockton i started laughing🤣 just using Low logic for their own argument
Getting all in there feelings lmao facts don't care about there feelings haha
If a player goes 40=15=12 in a season, HE'S THE MVP. Unless he's not on a good team! 2+2 doesn't always equal 4 in the NBA...
Just ask Gary Payton. He has stated that Stockton is the greatest point guard of ALL TIME.
Naw Mara and low be lying lol they def said joker was a better offensive player then kobe when they talked about this. I know because I turned the video off when they said that crazy stuff
yes i said better offensive player not better scorer,i stand on what i said
@@JG4TheGOAT soo he better at offense but not scoring ? Lol that’s Still cap n you def said scoter too cause they asked you n you said yes joker is the better scorer
Stockton using pick and rolls doesn't go against him just like Kareem using Skyhooks shouldn't be held against him.
I feel as if a quality look is determined on whether the basket was made or not because at the end of the day that’s all that matters.
ANY shot you are capable of making is a quality shot? Seriously?
12:40 that was a REALLY good point made by Ticket 💯🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Malone retired number 2 in scoring for a reason