Do the ear pinch (or whatever reinforcement that you were doing on the forced-fetch table) on the line in the field. The forced-fetch table is just to isolate the dog in order to help it understand what we want it to do. Once the dog has learned on the forced-fetch table, you should be able to reinforce the "fetch command and hold command" with whatever type of reinforcement you used on the table, in the field. So..... The dog learns on the table, but you take the ability to reinforce what the dog has learned on the table, wherever you go to train. You can also revisit the table, with the dokens ducks if needed. Remember, forced-fetch is difficult because it is a reward and consequence system. The reward is our praise, and getting off of the table, and the consequence has to be some kind of dis-comfortable reinforcement. Its unpleasant to cause any kind of discomfort to our dogs, but it is essential in the forced-fetch process. Also, part of the reason the dog is dropping the bumpers/dokens is that she shaking off the water as soon as she gets out of the water. You need to get her all the way out of the water before she shakes off the water. Once she delivers the bird to hand (preferably from the heel position), then try giving her a "shake it off" command to let her know its ok to shake off the water. And I wouldn't worry about making her go through lots of vegetation until she clearly understands the basics. As dog trainers, we sometimes get too far ahead of the process, and this impedes how the dog learns. I always have to remind myself to "keep it simple, stupid."
This is really helpful! I have caught myself moving quickly with her, we all want to get to the "fun stuff" so we move through the less fun stuff too quickly without creating a solid foundation. Since this video, she has been doing much better. Brought some real birds home yesterday and she picked them up came right into heel and held them as long as I would let her. I think she is putting it together, I just need to be patient and keep providing positive reinforcement. She "fetches" no problem, so we are beyond the ear pinch and all that, its just that extended hold we need to keep working on. Thank you!!
Try using a rope or leash setup where she can’t back out of the fetch/hold. Also keep pressure on the dokken in her mouth and don’t let off until she has a good hold. If she is shakey with the hold say, “no, hold” and then “good, hold” when she does good. The slight inflections in voice helps.
Hmmm. I never force fetched my retrievers so I don't know. Force fetching probably makes a better dog but I never had labs with the temperament that I thought would tolerate it. I think she'll get it soon. She smart.
Think I am going to take her on a easy solo hunt this week where she will be setup for success. She's ready! Needed her this morning, easy single open water mark
I don't consider myself the supreme expert but have successfully trained my Labs and I have had no need for force fetch. I tried it a couple times and it seemed to be more trouble than it was worth. I think a well bred hunting Lab has enough desire to fetch and carry things around, all you really need to do is re-enforce that innate behavior. I didn't even try force fetch on Rosie. I doubt her temperament would have tolerated it anyway. IMO, the fetch part (ie picking it up) is not your issue here, its the hold. I re-enforce that with lots of encouragement and ear rubs while she is holding it with the word "hold". Dropping it right out of the water is common when they shake. So I would repeat "hold" as she comes out of the water and over time, not much, that will do the trick. And I live with a couple of humans that love to teach her bad habits. LOL. My method may not be in any book but last season Rosie retrieved a bird and when we shot another one I tried to send her and she didn't go. Frustrated, I looked over and she was sitting in her blind with the previous bird in her mouth. I forgot to get it, LOL. Anyway, just my take. I'd just spend time rewarding hold and showing her what 'hold' means.
My last lab was FF pretty good but he she would drop to shake and sure enough I lost a duck one time because of it. Not the end of the world. The thing with FF is reliability with the dog. I plan to do some hunt tests with her like I did with my last lab and the hunt test ducks get nasty by the end of the day and some dogs dont want to pick them up. FF re-enforces that required command that she has to pick it up. Since this video, we have kept working on it and she is doing better. Thanks for the help, appreciated
Do the ear pinch (or whatever reinforcement that you were doing on the forced-fetch table) on the line in the field. The forced-fetch table is just to isolate the dog in order to help it understand what we want it to do. Once the dog has learned on the forced-fetch table, you should be able to reinforce the "fetch command and hold command" with whatever type of reinforcement you used on the table, in the field. So..... The dog learns on the table, but you take the ability to reinforce what the dog has learned on the table, wherever you go to train. You can also revisit the table, with the dokens ducks if needed. Remember, forced-fetch is difficult because it is a reward and consequence system. The reward is our praise, and getting off of the table, and the consequence has to be some kind of dis-comfortable reinforcement. Its unpleasant to cause any kind of discomfort to our dogs, but it is essential in the forced-fetch process.
Also, part of the reason the dog is dropping the bumpers/dokens is that she shaking off the water as soon as she gets out of the water. You need to get her all the way out of the water before she shakes off the water. Once she delivers the bird to hand (preferably from the heel position), then try giving her a "shake it off" command to let her know its ok to shake off the water.
And I wouldn't worry about making her go through lots of vegetation until she clearly understands the basics. As dog trainers, we sometimes get too far ahead of the process, and this impedes how the dog learns.
I always have to remind myself to "keep it simple, stupid."
This is really helpful! I have caught myself moving quickly with her, we all want to get to the "fun stuff" so we move through the less fun stuff too quickly without creating a solid foundation. Since this video, she has been doing much better. Brought some real birds home yesterday and she picked them up came right into heel and held them as long as I would let her. I think she is putting it together, I just need to be patient and keep providing positive reinforcement. She "fetches" no problem, so we are beyond the ear pinch and all that, its just that extended hold we need to keep working on. Thank you!!
Try using a rope or leash setup where she can’t back out of the fetch/hold. Also keep pressure on the dokken in her mouth and don’t let off until she has a good hold. If she is shakey with the hold say, “no, hold” and then “good, hold” when she does good. The slight inflections in voice helps.
Thank you!
Nice channel, keep it up !
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Hmmm. I never force fetched my retrievers so I don't know. Force fetching probably makes a better dog but I never had labs with the temperament that I thought would tolerate it. I think she'll get it soon. She smart.
Think I am going to take her on a easy solo hunt this week where she will be setup for success. She's ready! Needed her this morning, easy single open water mark
I don't consider myself the supreme expert but have successfully trained my Labs and I have had no need for force fetch. I tried it a couple times and it seemed to be more trouble than it was worth. I think a well bred hunting Lab has enough desire to fetch and carry things around, all you really need to do is re-enforce that innate behavior. I didn't even try force fetch on Rosie. I doubt her temperament would have tolerated it anyway. IMO, the fetch part (ie picking it up) is not your issue here, its the hold. I re-enforce that with lots of encouragement and ear rubs while she is holding it with the word "hold". Dropping it right out of the water is common when they shake. So I would repeat "hold" as she comes out of the water and over time, not much, that will do the trick. And I live with a couple of humans that love to teach her bad habits. LOL. My method may not be in any book but last season Rosie retrieved a bird and when we shot another one I tried to send her and she didn't go. Frustrated, I looked over and she was sitting in her blind with the previous bird in her mouth. I forgot to get it, LOL. Anyway, just my take. I'd just spend time rewarding hold and showing her what 'hold' means.
My last lab was FF pretty good but he she would drop to shake and sure enough I lost a duck one time because of it. Not the end of the world. The thing with FF is reliability with the dog. I plan to do some hunt tests with her like I did with my last lab and the hunt test ducks get nasty by the end of the day and some dogs dont want to pick them up. FF re-enforces that required command that she has to pick it up. Since this video, we have kept working on it and she is doing better. Thanks for the help, appreciated