The Nadir of Star Trek
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2023
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Wait spock turned into a human and that made him more emotional? Wasn't the lore of the vulcans that they are more emotional than most humanoids, and that became so dangerous they changed their entire culture to make sure they're disciplined enough to not let that happen?
Yes. Because they are so much stronger, due to the Vulcan gravity. They had tribes and used to fight and kill and cause utter chaos and their society was going no where. Till a Vulcan called Surak started to teach logic and control and they slowly got on board to become what we saw in the original series. They had to change in order to progress as they were so dangerous in a fight. One lot did not agree with this and became the off shoot race the Romulans as they still let emotion run free and are warlike.....it was cleverly done and well written and expanded upon no end in Next Generation. Simply due to the great foundations laid in the original show.
Yeah. Which goes to show that the writers are just completely incompetent. Turning him human would make him even less emotional if that was physically possible - he'd lose the more volatile Vulcan emotions while retaining the lifetime of rigid discipline used to conquer the stronger emotions.
It's nonsense.
I am not sure what happened. Did they fire the writers from the first season? Most of the first season was good enough that I watched it more than once.
@@AndragonLea its not that the emotions were more powerful, its that they were more alien to him, his disciple was designed for a particular, but powerful way of experiencing emotions and drives, and then something not as strong, but radically alien was replaced, example, vulcans don't experience hunger like humans do.
That's some cool lore I actually did not know.
Alex Kurtzman has said that he wants to use Star Trek as a platform for his political messaging and Paramount seems to be fine with that, especially since they renewed his contract. Shatner has been critical of modern Trek, and has been ignored when he's talked about returning to the franchise. Seth MacFarlane and Nicholas Meyer approached Paramount for their ideas for a new Star Trek movie/show and were ignored. That tells you everything you need to know.
The Orville was a far superior show, even with its issues.
Yes. And its partly the fault of modern audiences as well. People dont have the attention span, or imagination to enjoy, and get anything out of a series like Star Trek, especially if it was written as it should be. Like the classic series of Next Gen for example. All people want to see is reality Tv, quiz shows and crap cop and medical dramas. Junk like X Factor and Strictly Crap Dancing here in the Uk still get huge audiences. No one has any brains, as they are all engrossed in social media, likes, upticks twitter and garbage like Tick Tock on their phones. If you factor in the reality of needing a lot of money to make a show like Trek, compared to what they get back in views and audience its a miracle its getting made in any form. The world is not what it was, and neither are the people in it....sadly....
@@Simon-xc5oySo true
Sorry you have to deal with that shit over in the UK. It's empty brainless garbage unfortunately. Social media is the worst and generations are only to become increasingly dumber. Sad state of affairs it seems.
As much as cannot stand Seth McFarlane at least he respects Trek. I'd take him over this new Trek JJ Abrams bull 💩
It's almost as though the upper management of Paramount is being paid to destroy Star Trek. Alex Kurtzman has the same air of invulnerability as Kathleen Kennedy.
If there's one thing modern Hollywood has taught us, it's: It can ALWAYS get lower.
While I don't like this new stuff I'm also curious to see what lower looks like. Where does unadulterated irony and sarcasm eventually lead?
My first thought, you beat me to the comment.
Lower Decks is currently the Best NuTrek running.
Which tells you everything you need to know, really.
Nowhere!
What's below the lowest deck? Do I want to know, I have the feeling that I'm going to find out.😐
Pike has legit been cooking in his kitchen more than he has been in the captains chair.
Ahhh, to be returned to the halcyon days of complaining about Neelix's cooking.
They should have tried that with Janeway 😂
@@MrRickkramer Could you imagine.😆
@@AussieAmigan there would have been outrage 😂
They always cook eggs. Like scrambled eggs is hard or something. They did the same on Star Trek TNG
I feel like nowadays Star Trek has just become some writer's pet sci-fi project but with a Star Trek name. You can't sell your show or movie but you can cover it up with the Star Trek name.
It's the same concept behind the shlock that's been peddled under various IPs in recent years. If this current crop of hacks tried to drum up interest for their ideas based solely on their own merits, they'd never get anywhere.
Remember those home improvement shows where they would redo the home but the homeowners did not get to see until they were done? Those “designers” did things no one would have signed off on if it was pitched. That is what these “writers” are doing today. I keep hearing paramount is hurting financially. Scrap all of this trash. Publicly state that it was a fever dream and is not part of cannon. Then make good trek again. Star Trek fans would save paramount.
But when they do this johnathon frakes is not allowed near it. He has participated in this travesty. His privileges are revoked.
Sony licensed their programs. Paramount did the same until they got "streaming fever".
The shows all end on DS9 being quark`s Holosuite programs he cheaply paid for. He gets sued when Odo finds out he did not pay for it yet did steal it being a failed holodeck game he did not think anyone would know of.
THIS is how we fix it. It's cheap and dirty, but I don't think New Trek deserves better.
My proposal was, those stories are all holonovels written by some guy sitting now in a cell somewhere in the 25th century. And his (!) name is Michael Burnham.
Bring in Reginald Barclay to finish the program …
Final line in the ST:D finale is just Sisko angrily yelling "Computer! End program!"
@@SomeNerdSomewhere Q is smuggly day dreaming about his long game 4D chess plans. Then Siko smacks Q in the face the second time. New Trek is nothing, but the day dream of a Q.
......your terms are acceptable.
Every iteration of Trek has become more thin and blurry. It’s like photocopier ‘fade’
You did a current day Tolkien imo.
"Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. How did it come to this"?
All things will pass. Preserve some of the best media that you like, share them with interested people and look to new people and companies who bring forth similar and well executed ideas. E.g. I've discovered recently Warhammer 40k (I have no interest in playing or painting miniatures) and I'm reading some of the novelisations from the point of view of the different factions. There's some pretty good lore and characters in them. I just looked up 'the best necron books' for example and I'm reading a couple of very interesting novels about them. The Twice Dead King series - "Ruin" and then "Reign". Previously I've read some Inquisitor novels, some Imperial Guard novels, some Eldar/Aeldari novels, an end of the old human empire novel. WH40k is full of interesting sci fi and horror ideas, including existential horror. I liked STNG a lot, but it's not the only game in town, so sad as it is that intellectual vandals have ownership of Star Trek, there are alternative science fiction sources worth exploring.
I'm currently finishing my revisit of Star Trek: Enterprise, and while I didn't much appreciate the show as it aired initially 20 years ago - it has grown on me since. Even the somewhat lackluster first two seasons are at least recognizable Star Trek, taking itself and the audience seriously. Season three and four are genuinely good, and it's a damn shame the studio pulled the plug, just as the show had found its "space legs". The show did have a continuation of a sort in novel fashion - which are even considered canon, I believe - and the novels are fairly entertaining as well. The Romulan war and the founding of the Federation certainly would have provided enough material to continue the show another season or three.
I don't really enjoy any of the TV shows they've put out in recent years (save Picard season three), so I guess I'll have to content myself with the expanded universe of Star Trek novels from now on.
My main gripe with ENT was that from the first episode they introduce aliens from the future, which completely defeats the purpose of it being a prequel series. But it does maintain the spirit of the franchise and nuTrek makes me appreciate ENT the same way that Disney Star Wars makes me appreciate the prequel trilogy.
I never got the criticism about Enterprise. I really enjoyed it fromvthe start.
Enterprise was great but for those of you who complain about cannon you realize those books aren't, right?
I have revisited ENT recently as well.Some really good episodes,including the one where the Enterprise needs parts to repair it's warp drive,with the nearest being a freighter they helped out previously.Their captain won't give them the parts as their own warp drive would be useless and they are trying to get home.With his mission to destroy the Xindi weapon to save Earth,Archer has to become pirate and take it.The way Archer wrestles with this dilema was well done and for me,this is how good drama should be,by putting established characters in unfamiliar situations and how they deal with it.
@@joelvannatta3266 That was my gripe too. And also thatafter starting out with the premis that it was early days and lower technology, they just immediately added transporters, phasers (phase canons, same thing) and Photon torpedos, and undid the entire point of it being before TOS.
Might as well just be fanfiction that had a budget.
I've read some amazing fanfiction in my life.
Fans would respect the source material.
Really bad fan fiction. Even without the money Star Trek Continues was fantastic
@@johnnyt71982 Just look at Star Trek continues and phase II. Absolute reverence for the theme and style of TOS. mind blowing attention to detail for costumes and props and characterization. Made with obvious love, for fans by fans.
I've read and written better fanfic.
Everything since the end of Enterprise has been unwatchable
🎯
People have been watching these shows or we wouldnt be talking about them.
100%
That’s the scary thing, it’s called dumbing down the audience.
_Enterprise_ sucked, too. _Trek_ has been bad since the final episode of TNG. ( _Picard_ season 3 notwithstanding, that was very good.)
You would think this show would be about exploring strange new worlds. Star Trek used to be about interesting science fiction.
Maybe they meant Queer New Worlds, but it got lost in translation.
Now it is about the message.
In season 1 arguably the best moments were the episodes where pike had to deal with an alien race on a unknown world. Like the one where they’re gonna kill that kid or whatever
Used to be…that ship has sailed…
It's supposed to be the military in space. So they should act professional. I just don't understand why they can't do the same show from the 90s but today. I mean the Orville pretty much does it the right way.
My kids are teens and eldest just graduated, going into film. I took it upon myself to share as much of the most important entertainment I had growing up as I could and we would often discuss what we had just seen. The result? They are practically children of the 80’s with a keen analytical sense - and see right through modern entertainment. Their exposure to Trek has been entirely chronological - first watching the original series without updated effects…. And they fell in love with it. Then they watched the movies TMP through V, and they love them all - with TMP being the general favorite. We are currently in S3 of TNG and they love it, while also loving the first two seasons. This is all while they have been viewing Marvel movies and modern Star Wars (but I also raised them on the unaltered OT). If they saw SNW, they would run away screaming. Point is, you have to be intentional and it takes some effort, but there is hope for the future 😊 (and it mostly lies in exploring and celebrating the past)
Great comment!
I have to bribe my 11 & 13 y Olds to watch ST 😕
Nicely done Andy! With the later seasons of TNG and all of DS9, the best is yet to come. 😉
@@deandeck I initially made the mistake of intending chronological order (but skipping the two pilots)… the salt vampire was a bit too much for first viewing… then I had to do damage control by starting with the absolute lightest episodes from the first two seasons. The dynamic of Kirk/Spock/McCoy won them over.
@@steakslave Thanks! My kids are all into performing drama and faith is important to us, so yeah I can't wait for them to dive into DS9 ('dark' stories without being oppressively depressing). I took over cultural educational duties when I started putting headphones on my pregnant wife's tummy and turned up the John Williams 😄
I remember reading an article 26 years ago about Majel Barrett crying on the set of TNG after the last episode wrapped, and she said "His dream is over now." And people were consoling her saying, "There's still DS9, and this Voyager-thing is starting up..." But she knew.
Gene Roddenberry lost creative control of the TOS movies after The Motion Picture. He largely stepped away from running TNG after its second season. It’s not a coincidence BOTH drastically improved immediately after.
Roddenberry had a great vision but he really wasn’t a great writer or producer. So I’m sorry to tell you this but Star Trek began straying from Roddenberry’s original vision long before the current series or even his own death
@@ZJBorgRoddenberry’s original vision for Troi was a “hyper sexual female with 4 boobs”. Thankfully, people talked him out of it. So yeah, I agree with you - Roddenberry himself wasn’t exactly a gold standard of writing.
@@rieyuki A bit of a horndog, too.
To quote the drinker: Star Trek, it’s dead Jim.
The fact that you unironically quote that hack wannabe says all I need to know about you.
@@hellohumansthade7280 calm down mate. Absolutely no need.
@andyphilipson6983 The man is a lying idiot and anyone who follows him aren't much better.
The Rick and Morty-fication of franchises is probably in the top 5 of biggest annoyances of pop culture.
People laughed at me when I said this last year, but SNW is nothing more than Secret Hideout's attempt to capitalize on the popularity of The Orville. It's not bad, but it's not serious either.
The ones that laugh at us forever prove we were correct the entire time. They mock us at their own peril
The Orville takes itself more serious than strange new worlds. And it's written better. Orville comedy elements are funny.
Strange new worlds comedy is most often levels of cringe.
@@kev30631 Well not sure about Orville anymore, season 3 was pretty much a garbage
I honestly think that the writing has dropped off a cliff in season 2, and this episode is a perfect example of it hitting the rocks at the bottom.
I loved this episode. Best one this season
@@werejustgaming Calling this the best episode of this season is like climbing into a burning boat because there are sharks in the water, it's just the least worst option.
@@sofabuddha it's not. It's between this and Una's Court Episode.
@@sofabuddha most of the episodes have been garbage Spock Jokes
@@sofabuddha Heh.....set dem sharks on fire!
I agree. The "creators" behave like children throwing glitter or cheap, eye-catching decoration around to get SOME reaction begging for attention, but not for recognition.
Well said 🤔👍
I've never,ever wanted to see a Trek musical,at all. LOL. TNG,DS9,Voyager or Enterprise never had one,but,that's past Trek shows.I guess the show runners are do what they want,not what the fans want.
It sounds like the writers may be trying to duplicate the Stargate SG1 formula where the cast would occasionally deliver a fourth wall breaking line or the puppets episode or the Wormhole Extreme episode even the 200th episode. O'Niell's line when someone asks about T'ealc if he's a Jaffa, O'Niell replies, "No, he just plays one on tv."
They got away with stuff like that on SG1 because of high quality writing and great performances from a cast of characters everyone loved and a fantastic group of actors playing those parts so the audience was prepared to have a bit of a laugh from time to time. SG1 could never be rebooted because those actors made the show their own. Today's sci-fi is made for people with the attention span of a goldfish.
That puppet episode was great along the lines of Team America, and well written! Lol
@@stompieandsuzie The funny thing is, it seems you and OP both think that was distinct from the 200th episode. lol It was one of the pitches they gave in the briefing room, done up as a skit. I actually would have liked to see those concepts in some form, so I don't blame anyone thinking there actually was a whole puppet episode.
The difference was there were 27 episodes a year and many years of seasons. One or three comedies or shows like Wormhole Extreme which makes fun of the producers and Hollywood trends in general are OK.
This series is 10 eps a year. They don't have the bank account for more than one light hearted romp.
TOS did one comedy S1 and three S2 out of 50 episodes. Add to that 4 pretty bad dramas in two seasons...that is the ratio limit for long term success
"Angel" had a puppet episode, and Buffy had the Musical episode, and they worked well withing their settings.
I also remember some episodes on the X-Files, like a crossover with a reality show "Cops" and other 'expermental' ideas.
They often worked, because they weren't overdone, came late in the series and were still written in a good way.
Today it seems they keep every idea that comes to mind in the script, like an old color-blinking HTML page that had to use every tag in the book …
LOST became a hot mess season after season because of that and look at the MCU and DC movies that just came out.
@@Cau_No I think Cullin is proporting that Star Trek dramatic series is not Buffy or Angel which were created for tweens and based on parody style ideas in the first place.
However Paramount+ is pretty filled with schlock. Networks in 1966 and 1989 were too. However there was Gunsmoke and there was Gilligan's Island on the same network.
We used to get episodes like "The Drumhead" & "Duet". Now its a musical episode & interacting with animated characters? What an absolute disgrace & proof of the dumbing down of society. These writers can stay on strike until they have to find new careers👍
We need to just compost gen Z and try again. Some millenials can be saved, but the zoomers are barely Homo Sapiens.
@@lesigh1749 Sadly this is true. I really don't know where we went wrong as a society.
@@MagnanimousEntropy We forgot to tell the kids that communism is bad, just like facism is. They were easy prey for their marxist teachers, who we also forgot to purge from our lands.
@@MagnanimousEntropy Participation trophies, big pharma medicating children while increasingly Marxist teachers filled their heads with fluff, and the moral hazard of lessening accountability for performance.
@@lesigh1749Gen Z is set to be the most Conservative in years. It's half the Millennials that are the problem
Although I don't agree with some of what you've said, I love the analysis and presentation of all your stuff. You never make a bad presentation but your recent showcase of older movies has been fantastic and fresh. I love Lower Decks, it took me a little while to warm to it, but I have so much fun with it. The reason i didn't like it at first was BECAUSE I took it too seriously. It's a comedy animation, once I figured that out I enjoyed it. You make a great point about unprofessionalism, clownish and juvenile behaviour. It is much harder to enjoy that kind of behaviour in live action but in fast-paced comedy in a shorter episode, it fits for me. References I found insulting were, after the lacklustre reception of the Sagan Class Stargazer, then doubling down and 'Hey here's the Enterprise D!' I also get what you say about constant references to other shows, but I don't think it gets enough credit for building on those references. It built on Picard leaving a planet of drug addicts from 'Symbiosis' to go cold turkey, and also the fantastic season 3 ending that had more than a few shades of 'The Ultimate Computer'
Those Olde Scientists is the best episode in 18 years. I really wonder what it is you want. I was smiling and laughing the entire episode.
He wants a re-run of TNG. Basically. He would never say it but that is what he wants. Of course, without all the politics it had, and believe me, it had plenty.
The 2009 movie is a far cry from classic Trek, but it is actually what got me into Trek. I never really got the chance to watch Star Trek because they never broadcasted it here where I live while I was growing up, I had only vaguely heard about it so it never really caught my interest. Then I saw the trailers for this new Star Trek movie and it looked really awesome, it had similar vibes to Star Wars which I was a fan of, so I decided I had to go watch it. I watched it and loved it and got really interested in the characters, especially Nimoy's Spock, so from then on I had to go look into getting my hands on the original series and the other movies and that's how I started falling in love with all the classic Trek and what it was actually about. Although that movie isn't the best example of what Star Trek really is, it will always hold a special place in my heart and I'll always give it credit for opening the door to this wonderful universe.
And coming in fresh from the JJ Trek movies how do you feel about Strange Trek's treatment of Spock?
@@AussieAmigan I can't really see him as Spock, not so much because of the actor himself but because of everything he has to do and say that feel so out of place. That "human" Spock is really painful to watch. We've had a few instances in the past of Spock giving in to his emotions and his human side and it has absolutely nothing to do with how this Spock acts. So I see him as just a different character altogether.
Your a rare breed.
💯
Hate to say it but JJ Abrams version was complete crap much like Kurtzman and his shows but at least it introduced you into Roddenberry's Star Trek world or universe so we welcome you to The Real. 🤣 JK But seriously at least you are with us real Trekkies and Trekkers now.
Defenders of Nu Trek, say that Spock is basically a “teen” to explain why he’s OOC, and basically Sheldon Cooper of Star Trek. They took a fleshed out character, took away everything that made him unique, intelligent and well rounded character, and turned him into a simp, who liked Daddy Pike’s cooking, and emotional breakdowns. 🤦🏻♀️ Trelaine being a Q wasn’t specified in series! It was mentioned in a part canon part AU novel back in the 80s! You’ve had to have _read_ the book to know that! No one is going to get that reference unless they knew about the book! 🤦🏻♀️
Star Trek...dead
Star Wars...dead
Doctor Who...dead
They are all dead, Jim
The frustrating thing is that SNW season 1 had some really good stuff when it took its stories seriously, especially Memento Mori and A Quality of Mercy. And then there was Picard Season 3. We had it good for a bit.
They were merely setting you up for the fall.
First episode of SNW makes it Star Trek canon that the Jan. 6 Capitol protest/riot leads to the Eugenics Wars and WWIII. A leftist low-I.Q. politicized fantasy and exploitation of the franchise for a cheap political demonization-of-the-opposition point. That alone told me not to watch the show.
Season 3 of Picard wasn't even that good, it was just better than the rest of the utter tripe being produced.
All of these issues come from the fact that CBS and Paramount insist that SNW and STD are canon to older TOS shows. It makes no sense. Why not just say they are alternate universe shows?
I believe IF they just said the entirety of “new” Trek (including the JJ verse) is an alternate universe to original Trek, then a lot of fans would be/could be a little more lenient toward these newer series, just as SW fans don’t necessarily need to accept/enjoy all of the SWEU, renamed “Legends” now, or even Disney SW canon.
I usually agree 100% with you, but I disagree a bit here. I do agree this season has gone down hill. The writers just appear to be mining classic trek tropes that worked in that past, but then not able to do them as well. However... Lower Decks is a great show. I don't understand how any long time classic Trek fan would not be laughing their butts off at that show. It's great. The writers clearly care about, and have vast knowledge of, Star Trek. The Lower Decks crossover has been the only episode I have liked so far this season. Sure, we have had ds9 "crossover" into the TOS past, but this is the first time there has been a time travel crossover where both casts were acting (and not just spliced in with old footage). For that, it has been the most original episode yet this year. I also think they must have let the Lower Decks writers into the writing room because they used the Lower Decks cast to point out all the stuff that is "wrong" about how Spock is written in SNW. All that said... this show is in serious trouble if it doesn't hire a better writing staff. It's bad. It's real bad. Only the excellent acting is keep this thing humming in the least bit.
This episode has been my favorite. I had some serious laughs and enjoyed it. I love lower decks. It’s hilarious and you are right the writes have huge love for the source material and tons of knowledge. It’s the only way they could come up with all their references and jokes.
Lower Decks would work if all the JJ Trek before it worked. Instead, it looks like one turd among many.
Agreed. I can completely understand why someone may not enjoy the lower decks. It is a comedy, and the tone and style a great departure from the contemplative, serious tone of core star trek. However, the big difference I find between it and other parodies is that it behind the jokes is a true love for the franchise. Yes they amp up the silliness of living in the trek universe, but their characters are surprising multi-dimensional and ultimately heroic. Instead of a deconstruction, just pointing out how ridiculous everything in the universe is, I would say it goes the extra mile to be a reconstruction. Their may be randomness and disasters, the characters are still heroic and idealistic.
@@paniccheck exactly. It’s not deconstruction at all. The characters love the history of trek. They geek out at Spock, Kirk, enterprise, old ships and warp cores. They LOVE their world. It’s like what we would act like if we could live in that universe.
And as silly as they behave, they are still starfleet. They uphold values and heroism that is shown through all the older trek shows. I still believe they are 100% starfleet personnel…just ones that are less ridged as the senior officers. And I think that was the whole point of the show. ”Kayshon, when he became a puppet” was the hardest laugh I have ever had from a tv show in my life. And you have to be a major trek nerd to get the joke.
Yeah, I'll agree to disagree with Dave on this one. I appreciated the fun aspect and I was thoroughly entertained. Lower Decks, and now, Strange New Worlds, I watch just for entertainment. I do not think of them as serious Trek series.
Waiting to see what comes next after season 3 of Picard.
As a very elderly Trekkie who has watched everything since day 1 I can sort of see why this episode would make the Dave Cullen's of this world shudder. The praise from many for the way this episode was done contrasts hugely with the despair that Dave and probably others like him will express. Whilst I'm not a great fan of Strange New Worlds preferring more traditional Trek (though Picard season 3 was great) I personally thought episode 7 was quite brilliant and certainly stands well in the pantheon of more light hearted Trek episodes across the entire franchise. They handled the characters with respect amongst the light heartedness and provided some explanation as to why Spock was behaving 'oddly' in some of the SNW episodes (when history clearly records Spock as a supremely logical being, etc), provides context to the future of the SNW crew and examines how 'hero worship' is a human condtion which colours judgement and behaviour. It was interesting that some people have pointed to the Trek Culture review with its over 80 'ups'. Again perhaps this is a bit over the top but the depth of the analysis that Sean Ferrick and his team went into brought out the reasons why this episode was so good. This is clearly going to be one of those episodes that it going to split some of the fandom and it's probably one where we're going to have to agree to differ.
It seems with the popularity of Picard S3, the higher ups said, “No! We can’t have normal Trek! Bring us more bad scripts!!”
Mah "Picard" was simply a disaster and season 3 in my opinion was only a bad attempt to Paramount to "restore" Captain Picard by destroying DS9 lore in regard to the "rogue changeling that allying with the Borg"....The Borg!! Seriously? Why shouldn't they create their own armada of Alpha jem'hadar or something on the line?.....it's just that even Paramount realize that with that series they really hit the bottom and so hurried to do some damage control......in the most lame way of course
Thanks Dave. It's just sad what they have done to Star Trek. When I saw the announcement for the musical episode I shook my head in disgust...
XDDDDDDDDDDDD
I remember when they said TNG wasn’t Star Trek or DS9 wasn’t TNG you can’t make everyone happy…
It's a false premise to assume Strange New Worlds is even 'serious' in the first place. They tried that with Discovery and they failed. SNW isn't Discovery and it also isn't Picard Season 3. It wasn't just "some people" who liked this crossover episode, the episode was generally very well-received. As you said, they play things too safe on SNW and this was the one time they actually took a risk. Picard S3 also played it safe but you enjoyed it because it played on your nostalgia in a way that you preferred.
"There isn't anything lower than this."
The Barbie movie is doing so well at the box office that a sequel will be announced, so say my "sources"!
The working title is:
Barbie does Star Trek; may the Woke be with You.
Barbie and her seven gal pals must save the galaxy from the patriarchy as embodied by Cylon Ken from his base on the desert planet ManDune and halt the spread of the spice drug, Manup.
Sounds more original than what we will be getting.
Im 62 years old. I remember when nerd cultural was ridiculed and we were all dorks and objects of scorn. In other words, the good old days.
"Lower Decks" is good after the third episode of season 2. It's a 180. I hated the first season for all the reasons mentioned here. After that, it becomes a funny proper Trek series. I really enjoyed it and I am waiting for the fourth season. Boimler stops being the butt of every joke. Mariner becomes a better friend and officer and does "the right thing" most of the time. I really enjoyed it but I don't think that is enough to make me want to watch ENW.
Thanks for this. I completely agree. Lower decks had an unbearable beginning, but since the second season, it has really transformed itself into a show with heart, and character growth that I enjoy to a surprising degree. After this excellent cross-over, I went back to re-watch Lower decks from the start, and was instantly reminded just how much I hated those early episodes… Mariner is practically unwatchable in episode 1! So I definitely understand why People dismiss it. Just a shame, since it has become something special.
💯 agree. The first season was incredibly painful, but it seems to have evened out. It’s still not my favorite show by any means, but it’s lighthearted and I like the fact the writers on that show at least seem to have watched and appreciated the earlier shows
Season 1 of Strange New Worlds showed so much promise, but as it's from essentially the same producers that made Discovery so ultimately terrible, I'm beginning to wonder if they haven't screwed it all up with season 2🙄
I totally watch a show about space to constantly see episodes that are either ‘what ifs’ or entirely take place on 21st century Earth…..
There was so much potential for Star Trek Prodigy, exploring the events after Voyager.. I would like to see the adventures of the Enterprise-B with the monster Maroon uniforms.
I'd love them to just move in maybe another 150-200 years after Picard and a fresh crew and starship exploring where no one has gone before - a new galaxy.
There was a rumor once upon a time, a bit after Enterprise was canned. Supposedly a concept for an anthology series based in the "lost era" of the B and C. Instead we ended up with Kurtzman.
@@rkitchen69 Not content with spoiling the past, Discovery went and spoiled the future. Spoiler alert, all the dylithium crystals in our galaxy blew up destroying all the federation ships because some kid threw a tantrum on a dylithium planet. Discovery also managed to leave the Galaxy spoiling that adventure too. Do you really want to spoil the surrounding galaxies too? It's just too hard to find someone competent who loves StarTrek to run StarTrek.
"Throw as many wild ideas at the screen as possible to see what grabs attention." You mean like a white rabbit from Alice in Wonderland? Or a Robin Hood episode? Or an antiquities collector who wants an android? Or maybe an entire movie about whales? Star Trek has always done this, and it is great to see a show taking the same risks as those before it.
Although i agree, i also really like it when shows have fun with themselves, like Stargate, or A Fistful of Datas. Though S2 of SNW seems to be too silly.
As my Father descended into alcoholism and my parent's marriage was dissolving, I remember one time when on a good day, Dad took me to get an ice cream. I think I was seven. It wasn't at our favorite place. And it wasn't even the flavor I liked. But it was something Dad tried to do for me. And I remember thinking, this is as good as it gets right now. And I was thankful for that relatively peaceful relatively pleasant moment with a mediocre treat. ... ... That was fifty years ago. I'm better now. But honestly I see new Trek in much the same way. It's all falling apart. And last week's episode was at least ice cream. Even if it wasn't a flavor like. It's still better than the abuse Trek has heaped upon me over the past few years, and the abuse I anticipate Trek is yet to deliver. So yes, in that way I enjoyed last week's crossover episode. And in that way, it made me feel like a kid again. ... thanks for bring up that memory newtrek.
Unprofessional behaviour has been the hallmark of nu-Trek since Jar Jar took over in '08. Drinker did a very good video on this, no one acts like an adult, let alone an exemplar of their species which is what Starfleet personnel are meant to be. After all, when you're sending someone out to discover strange new worlds and civilisations, you want to send your best and brightest, not a group who show less maturity than the kids in _And the Children Shall Lead_ or _Miri._
Remember when Star Trek was considered "too intellectual"? Man, I miss those days!
I'm glad there is a strike hopefully the writers will leave their career and do something else
Season 2 has been utterly woeful. Just like The Mandalorian, the lead Captain Pike has been side-lined to a bit part character for reasons.
Is that why I'm hearing that The Mandalorian is sucking. People online were raving, then sudden silence then disdain. Figures.
Because he's a white guy with Christian values and has on screen bedded an actual woman. Can't have him as a lead. That would be supporting the patriarchy.
Such a shame, too. Anson Mount is an awesome Pike. He was the only character in Discovery Season 2 that was palatably Star Trekkian.
Such a shame too, because the first season of SNW felt like it was on course to right the rudders. At least as much as can be expected in this leftwing looney toon world we live in.
Pike's was a side character early in season 2 as the actor was having extra leave during the filming of season 2 after becoming a father for the first time shortly before season 2 was being filmed.
@@thomaswedge42 They've been talking about playing him down anyway. It was just a good excuse. They're turning it into "more of an ensemble."
@@OpenMawProductions I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, unlike Discovery where Michael Burnham needs to be the center of attention every episode and we know next to nothing about the rest of the bridge crew after four seasons.
In my opinion Star Trek has always worked best as an ensemble, there are a lot of episodes of TNG that barely feature Picard and many of DS9 that do not feature Sisco, I know TOS wasn't really an ensemble cast until the movies but did at least have three main leads.
It's not over until Strange New Worlds rips off Galaxy Quest and Freaky Friday where Captain Pike switches places with Anson Mount and so on.
I thought you were going to go with switching into another cast member. So Pike, finally a woman, finds his power and has to fight against the patriarchy and never sees a kitchen again. Ewww... It pains me to even try to think the way Hollywood does.
That did the freaky Friday episode already in season one , were spock and Tpring switched bodies.
I personally love "lower decks" but it really needs to stay in its lane. it's not for everyone. As for everything else yes you are spot on. This is not my Startrek universe.
I'm a fan of Star Trek since TOS and I absolutely loved that cross over episode. I think it was very well-made and fun. Furthermore, I agree that this season feels very experimental where S1 was just TOS reboot, which is kinda what we wanted and the goal in the first place. So I think S2 is less good so far, but that lower decks episode was great personally, and I can't wait for Season 4 of lower decks. I didn't like it much at first, but I really learn to enjoy it because it's just goofy and a good time! Reminds me of Futurama a bit, and it's not dark with huge story arc over seasons, lower decks is just fun, but I totally get it that it's not for everyone and trekkies taste.
Musical episodes and crossovers with animated shows are proof that sometimes thinking outside the box isn't always a good idea.
Yeah, thinking outside a box of rocks, it gets no better.
I like the concept of Pike. In Season One he has to accept that history sees him only as a good Captain and not a great Captain like Kirk. The real test of his character is how he interacts with his revealed destiny.
Like Christ, does he choose a life destined for sacrifice and suffering, knowing that he will save lives, or does he try and change his fate?
It is one thing to have a great destiny revealed to you and playing your part, but a crappy destiny?
Would a person choose to live couragously, impulsively, frivoilously, fearfully?
If I was shown for certain what my end would be, and that nothing I did could change it, personally I would swing for the fences and be crazy brave and do risky things.
At that point I literally would have plot armour. It would be sweet!
@@Johnny_Nitro yeah I'm not too bothered by the idea of Pike knowing his future. Especially as he doesn't know ALL of it, such as the happy ending we saw in The Menagerie.
I sadly checked out of Star Trek years ago, after what they did to the Wrath of Khan remake.
These new eras of Star Trek have since totally gone downhill, and I’m glad I never looked back.
"It's a comedy that seems more like a self-aware satire..."
Yes... because... it is...
It doesn't hide that fact. that's why some people love it
Lower decks
@@kev30631 Exactly. It's a comedy, it's a parody, it makes fun of Star Trek while also providing new stories within it. It's childish at times, and too crude at times, and I don't like all of it, but what I do like is a great addition to the franchise.
What I love most is how it pokes at the more absurd parts of each series. Extreme hazards in everyday operations, bridge crew seemingly dying and then returning like nothing happened, dealing with the aftermath of crazy situations caused by the main series, all of that stuff you can really laugh at. I don't mind it one bit, comes off as complimentary to me.
You had me at "total descent into farce".
Well actually you had me at "The Nadir of Star Trek" but I didn't even have to press the Play button to pull that up.
Edit: and then you said that the only serious new Trek was Picard season 3 and even that was poor and all I can think now is I shouldn't love you this much and yet I think I do. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Edit Edit: "one can only hope that there isn't anything lower than this".
... I have been saying that *SINCE 2009* and I have just given up. Of course it can get lower. And it will. Because it's descending into the mediocrity that the mass audience will pay for until they get bored. At which point, ratchet up the gimmicks and the explosions.
If you think SNW is worse than JJ-Trek aka the Kelvin Timeline, you gotta be delusional. SNW has some shit episodes, some great episodes, but man, is it MILES ahead of lens-flare Trek.
@@quantumvideoscz2052 anything that comes out of Discovery and deliberately contradicts and dumps all over the TOS TNG canon and history... LOWER DECKS, a crossover in SNW and a musical episode? You've got to be delusional if you think I'm going to care a damn for such stupid wrongthink.
@@quantumvideoscz2052 Well, damn. I have just watched a couple of other videos by Dave Cullen. If you seriously think SNW has had some great episodes and that it is in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER OUTSIDE OF THE PIT OF FILTH THAT ALSO HOUSES ABRAMS MOVIES, then I really don't have to care anything about your opinions because you are lost and there is no value to your existence.
Dave, the musical episode is not the next episode after the Lower Decks crossover (2x07) it's 2x09, the next episode (this week) 2x08 is about a Klingon diplomat aboard the Enterprise.
A cross dressing Klingon?
Come on Scott...throw me a bone here.
Absolutely correct, Mr. Cullen. The Animated TV series was thoughtful and intelligent. And the novelisation adaptations by Alan Dean Foster build upon the series and are brilliant Star Trek stories.
Why is it I mentally picture some "Powers that be" hearing people go: "Well there's no way it can get any worse" and immediately steeple their fingers and tell a minion to: "Hold my beer and watch this....."
Loved STTAS! I would rather watch old re-runs than the current crap!
It isnt really a cartoon, its just series 4 of TOS but thyey no longer had the budget to do live action with costumes and sets, so they animated the stories. In tone, its the same exact show.
Agreed. I’d love a remastered TAS. Maybe new animation and color correction. But the voice acting and stories are quintessential Trek!
@@lesigh1749 Yeah, I am sure that everyone pretty much recognizes it as 4th season, canon wise. With all the episodes written by D.C. Fontana and other of the same authors etc. It even has lots of episodes that were better than some from the 3rd season, in my opinion. You know, in reboot movie series they had old Spock meets young. It was nothing new. They practically stole it directly from TAS "Yesteryear". We even got to see Spock's 'Teddy Bear'.
@@jasonschlierman412 I think that they have it. I think that it came on the DVD set that I got like 15 years ago.
Thank you!!!! I’m tired of channels like Trek Culture providing unfair praise to a franchise that has gone well off track from its roots! They reviewed this episode and gave it an absolutely raving review with over 80 positive points to it and ZERO negative…
I know, they do the same with Doctor Who. I'm honestly close to unsubbing.
Star Trek: The Motion Picture sold more tickets than the JJ Abrams film and it was one of the most expensive movies ever made at that point. It was certainly not made for a niche audience.
Very true.
The streaming boom that ressurected star trek shall inevitably be it's grave.
I realize that my novels will probably never be seen by Hollywood, but if I were ever to be approached by a Hollywood studio to put my work on film, I would most likely tell them to go take a hike.
This is not really Hollywood though...it is TorontoWood
We should make a movie out of your novels in the style of and with the budget of old trek. Star Trek was never about big-budget scenes or a-list actors. I think if you got enough talented people with a penchant for that which makes old trek great, it would be easy to make a movie or series.
Hell, if they can use aluminum foil, shower curtain rods, and construction paper on the lunar lander, then dammit we can use those on your Star Trek movie!
I'm half kidding.
@@scottmatznick3140 let's see, after they retooled it Labor Day weekend 1966 TOS had:
Kim Darby, crazy Barbara Anderson, Spock falls in live with Jill Ireland, Kirk falls in love with Joan Collins, Kathy Browne, France Nuyen....then there's Jane Wyatt, etc...etc...etc ... All photographed in soft focus with the Cybil Sheppard golden age of Hollywood lens.
Then there was the long list of eye catching established movie and TV actors: Ricardo Montelbaum, Frank Gorshen, William Marshall...
Yes who can forget Iggy Pop, The Rock Johnson, Terry Hatcher, Bebe Newirth, Ashley Judd, Sarah Silverman, Jason Alexander, Kelsey Grammar......
Nah Star Trek was never about gimmicks and viewer bait....however this show dived quickly into The Regrettable.
Strange new worlds has officially jumped the shark.
An excellent summation David 👍👏
I guess this new trek is not aimed at your classic fan. It seems to have been produced by a committee trying to put together some gumph that they think will appear to Millennials. In particular Lower Decks. The insufferable Mariner and that other kid yakking away at each other for a minute was more than enough for me never to want to go back.
Millennials? No. We grew up in the TNG-Enterprise era. This is for some other group entirely.
Gene Roddenberry would be shocked at what his creation has become...
Gene was a lot of things, but he was also almost as much of a hindrance to what most people love about Star Trek now as he was the driving force.
Wrath of Khan? He hated the uniforms and militaristic influence. TNG? He didn't want to cast Patrick Stewart. DS9? One of his decrees was there is to be no interpersonal conflict amongst the crew.
He may be the "Great Bird of the Galaxy", but he's just a dude who doesn't really need a pedestal. He's already above us in the heavens - literally.
@Draliseth Exactly.....but most conveniently forget that fact
Laughably the current leads don't agree. They don't seem to grasp that as massively liberal as Gene was, he was still a patriot and had common sense. In addition to being genuinely creative, rather than simply trying to "deconstruct" the work of others.
@fmcc0904 Gene was a cad who cheated on his wives and treated women horrible. He only cared about his creation in as much as he could money on it and almost destroyed it in the process. Most of the most beloved movies or shows that were created he hated and if it hadn't been for Berman and the like TNG would have been canceled before the 3rd season. You lot really need to stop with the Roddenberry worship and really research the history of this franchise you claim to love.
Gene's original concept for Troi was that she would have 4 breasts. Four! DC Fontana told him 2 things: are they supposed to be in a line or two rows of two and that giving her 4 breasts would offend the female fans.
So much for good ole Gene being "woke" since the beginning.
I am trying, really trying to picture Dave singing along to that musical.
Try harder 😂
Try... the Irish Rovers?
"Descending into a blackhole that no one has ever been before"
TOS has plenty of times where Spock swung from a tree and felt his emotions. Humor is different in times. Remember the episode on the shore leave planet and the rabbit from Alice in Wonderland.
As always, I have to agree with everything said here, although admittedly, outside of Picard S3, I HAVE "enjoyed" Lower Decks S3 and SNW S2... though it took me awhile to reach this point where I'm able to actively separate them from the franchise I love and just sort of view them as "fan productions," which, inflated budgets aside, is very much what they are. Brannon Braga once said if you're going to write Star Trek, you have to have a very particular tone because you're telling the history of the future. These shows... enjoyable as they may or may not be, depending on one's view, do not have that.
Abraham Lincoln? Hippie planet? Green hand in space? Come on...we remember this TOS stuff...also, I think you're forgetting that Star Trek movies were always more action-oriented.
100% this. I rewatch TOS about once a year, and half of the eps in the first season are "unstopable super-beings take the crew hostage", and they're essentially surviving until they randomly get saved, without having to do anything themselves. This episode of SNW was very entertaining, and very Star Trek, if you're okay with Star Trek changing somewhat with the times. I hate 'woke' crap, but this series limits that in all but a few episodes.
Strange New Worlds has become a sitcom
It had small elements in it sense season 1.
It has risen the bar more openly in season 2
Normally agree with you on most stuff but I enjoyed it. Don't know if it's because Picard seasons 1 and 2 and all but the first season of discovery were absolutely terrible but I've been enjoying g new worlds and lower decks
I was watching season 1 of Lower Decks a couple days ago with my buddy. He only saw a few odd episodes of actual Trek so most of the material went over his head. I found my biggest enjoyment from the experience was when I went on *very* long tangential explanations of the references that made little sense, like why would Quark's time traveling ship be in a museum? Hell, why would a Romulan Bird Of Prey be in a museum? With a working cloak?? Moreso, how could they possibly be in the SAME museum?! Anyways, another episode did 2 things right: Riker's Warp 5,6,7,8 joke and the Titan. Seriously, I can't understate how happy I was to see The Titan on screen because it was exactly the style from the novels. That design was created by a fan contest. A FAN Contest. For the books! The non-Cannon books!! That's a level of fan service that I can't possibly discredit.
Thank you for this Video!
I once heard that when a show does a musical it has, 'jumped the shark.'
All the new stuff they put makes me admire the old stuff even more
I find Lower Decks interesting, out of all these recent new shows it seems to know what Star Trek actually is the most, but it completely squanders it.
I don't mind it either, but just wish they'd wait for a crossover at least until season 4 of Strange Trek, to let there actually be a genuine Trek episode (wishful thinking). I didn't mind Prodigy either by the way, and was always astonished at what seemed like an expensive show. At least it wasn't woke.
Lower Decks grew on me with repeat viewings. My son loves the show. Now I appreciate it too
Long time Trek fan, and I know people hate lower decks, but I Love it. I enjoy it because as a navy guy we in the lower decks are very much like the show. I understood not to take it serious and I don’t but Lower Decks relates with actual military lower deck people like me.
Season 2 is great for me. Agree to disagree
I am a fan of LOWER DECKS. However, it's supposed to be different. I agree, it is different and should be kept away from serious Trek. If Lower Decks aired in between DS9 and Voyager, it would have been better and I suspect more people would have enjoyed it.
Part of the appeal of ST:LD (at least for me) is that it's a parody of the joke of what modern Trek has become, and if it's the last profitable Trek franchise ever then at least it will all go out with a laugh.
@@lukefrahn8538 problem is, Star trek now is not Star Trek pre 2009 (jj Abrams star trek). ST LD is as close to pre 2009 Trek as they can be.
@@BoydofZINJ Agreed that 2009 was the turning point. My take away from this video was that attempting to mainstream Trek (and needlessly re-write canon) is where it started to fall apart.
I totally watch a space show to watch an episode that takes place entirely on 21st century earth.
If TOS is the Western adventure show with a sci-fi twist, and TNG is a office management with a sci-fi twist, SNW is a social club with a sci-fi twist. It's a show about nothing, but not in a Seinfeld way.
I'm currently rewatching the Horatio Hornblower series starring Ioan Gruffudd, the source material being used as inspiration for Kirk. It's full of adventure and heroism with duty and honor. SNW seems to be a lot of cooking and wacky hijinx among the crew as they run around the ship. It's so small to what Trek used to be.
That Hornblower series is awesome! I happily own a copy on DVD. It’s a shame it’s never been put on Blu-ray and a bigger shame they never got to finish it.
@@jasonschlierman412 An Australian company released a Blu-Ray set in 2020, out of print now and very hard to find (picked mine up on Amazon late last year). It's in its original widescreen aspect ratio, with maybe a touch too much grain in some scenes. But yes, a great series!
Yes, 2009 was the beginning of the downfall. It's a shame what CBS/Paramount and JarJar Abrams did to the series. And it was shameful what they did to the potential Axanar movie which would have been a truly serious effort guided by the original series.
How much of Lower Decks have you watched?
I wonder because the show started off very weak, I’d agree, but I think that it quickly improved a great deal. I think that it has the most heart of any of the New Trek era shows and it becomes quite capable of playing things mostly straight, like in the third season finale which I thought was excellent.
I’d also note that I don’t really mind the gimmicky episodes. Some of those have always been my favorites, thinking back to DS9, for example, I love “Our Man Bashir” and “Trials and Tribbleations” - the problems here, in my view, are the short episode count throwing the ratio of episodes off and also the problem of continuity.
IE - I am growing to like some of these characters a lot, but to the degree their fates are frozen by continuity or the fact that they are missing from continuity casts a gloomy cloud over affairs.
The last 3 episodes of each of the lower decks seasons have been absolute 10/10 bangers so far in the way they respect and expand canon an the heartfelt arcs of mariner and boimler
I enjoy lower decks also. If you don't like a program it's human nature to use negative descriptions to sway a crowd to your way of viewing it.
This is a favorite channel of mine. However ,Dave's description of lower decks Went over my head.
I don't find any malicious or agenda to denegrade star trek in lower decks.
In fact it's the opposite. It's fanboying and celebrates startrek lore and history.
@@kev30631 I think that Lower Decks got off to a weak start and that a lot of people were predisposed to hate it because of Discovery and early Picard.
But I think that it’s a lot of fun and a loving tribute to the franchise.
I do enjoy Lower Decks and really appreciated the crossover episode. That being said, I agree that it is not serious and not like old Trek at all. Which I miss because they put so much into the stories.
Glad I never got around to watching any of SNW. Thanks for your sacrifice, Dave.
"There is no ethos to The Franchise®?"
"Never has been."
I love lower decks, because I don’t hold the show up to previous standards, I see the show for itself.
I enjoyed the first season - but the second season is just turning me off. Most of the current episodes so far seem to be dealing more with personal angst, and I agree that the interactions between the characters (given that they are supposed to be part of a uniformed organisation which by definition would have to be highly disciplined and professional) are just juvinille and drive a stake through the idea of professionalism. I don't think I will bother watching the rest of the episodes.
Its not even just a uniformed organization like the US Navy. Its the US Navy if everybody in it was a qualified astronaut and astrophysicist.
These characters wouldnt pass muster for the Coast Guard. The crew of the Staton Island Ferry are more disciplined.
Good point.
It's now hyper focused on emotional arcs and they story plot is secondary.
There about to put real Kirk into a romcom with La'an as another example.
This is the writers saying they know nothing about Star Trek without saying they know nothing about Star Trek.
Yet to watch this, but compared to what I've seen of Discovery, this can hardly be considered a low point. It is at least a genuine scifi event (discovery and accidental activation of an alien portal causing time travel).
For a while now I've lived in hope that somehow Star Trek would return to creators who cared about the material. Over time I learned to move away from Star Trek, and just mourn it's passing. Then Picard, Season 3, brought new hope. it wasn't perfect. It played on fan service and nostalgia - but i think after seeing the ruin of all Trek before, a little fan service was needed. However, with everything Strange New Worlds is doing - Spock the Buffon and butt of every joke, the crossover with Lower Decks, and finally this abomination of the upcoming MUSICAL episode - I am abandoning ship. I will hold to the memories of what was, but I will no longer plague my mind with worry for the future of the franchise. There is no future in this. This ship isn't sinking; it's now below the waves.
A Robot Chicken style episode with the crew transformed into Playmates action figures will be next.
The fact Paramount rejected Seth MacFarlane's ideas for Star Trek, only for him to make The Orville.
Its a television show. Its supposed to grab your attention. I dont think Gene Roddenberry set out to make a show for geeks only. He wanted to make a TV show that made a name for himself and the network money. Angel had a puppet episode. Buffy had a musical episode. Lower Decks isnt trying to be The Animated series. They shout a lot, which they make reference to in this episode. Previous Star Trek shows messed up the timeline. If you think this episode really is that bad, ill trade "Profit & Lace" for it. You can keep that shit. Ill take this anyday.
for the first time I disagree . because I found it actually funny and therefore entertaining . and in the end of the day that's the most important thing
I'm with NitpickingNerd on this one, as per my separate comment
No accounting for taste.
Oh come on… I loved this episode!
‘It plays to the lowest common denominator’
The writers
You Explain things so well
@DaveCullen - I found your channel through your Picard Season 3 reviews and have watched through your back catalogue. I’m 90% with you on your feedback (although could never articulate my views as well). Have watched trek for decades and grew up on the TNG era shows and reruns of classic trek on BBC2. Hated … with a passion discovery season one until they introduced the last 4 mins of the final episode … and then kinda took to the new enterprise crew out of desperation. I think anything to brighten to tone of new trek is an improvement, and lower decks is clearly written to appeal to fans. So adding the two shows to me … is hardly any worse than some of the lighter trek episodes of DS9 with the Rom, Nog and Quark episodes. (Or Harry and Tom captain proton shows).
Classic trek appealed as it had levity - to offset the more somber episodes occasionally. So I had no problem here - and I think this episode will stand out down the road. Am not a huge musical episode fan but am sure some will be.
Anything that is not pointless self indulgent lazy storytelling such as in Discovery season arcs from series 3/4 is welcome at this stage. My bar is clearly lower than yours Dave.