Yes, my literal best friend Caroline who would bail me out of jail if I got arrested but has not responded to any of my daily "good morning Queen" DMs 😤
This one is weird because I think Little Sandwich represents the kids in those situations that we wish we could help. My theory why that series did so well and everyone “loves” Little Sandwich.
It drives me INSANE when people are disappointed when content creators dont post and insist that the creator should have posted a message of explanation. I firmly believe that if we're watching free content, creators owe no explanation for absences.
I don’t know a single creators schedule. People get reading upset when the Do We Know Them Podcast upload late. Like Lilly is editing give her time. It’s so weird to me when people get upset about that stuff
Ik it’s not the same but I don’t like how people get upset when influencers and celebrities don’t voice their political beliefs and say they’re disappointed if they didn’t make a post saying “free Palestine” or something. Like yes it’s an important topic but especially if it’s someone who’s NEVER spoke about politics it’s like.. that’s not what their platform is for. If you want political opinions go to a political platform. I’ve seen so many comments on creators who just haven’t spoken about it and they’re like “I’m so disappointed you haven’t voiced your opinion on this” like… why? They’re not a political person and they’re not your friend, why do you care what they think so much?
I really like when actors/actresses refer to their character by name in interviews, helps to put that necessary distance between reality and fiction some folks need.
I stopped having parasocial relationships after Zayn left one direction, I was sobbing all day like I knew this man. thank you for having this very important conversation, we need to remind people that this is not normal. obsessive infatuation with a stranger is very dangerous for both parties
this may be controversial but i think january 6th is the perfect example of a type of parasocial relationship. the fact that people idolized our former president so much (i don’t care whether you agreed or disagreed with him on politics) that they took “action” into their own hands by his encouragement is so. so. dangerous. the rise of situations like these need to be talked about more.
@@abcdeshole while recent events reflect a deeply broken and polarized country writ large, at the end of the day it also helps his branding even more. he’s a martyr now more than ever.
Honestly being in an extreme parasocial relationship as an ex kpop Stan was insane, like I was truly In love with these men. I truly thought I knew them personally 😭
Were you really young? I have been cyberbullied (lol) multiple times by kpop stans for the stupidest unrelated things that somehow get brought BACK to kpop (when that was never the topic) and every time, it's been mostly girls no older than...14? 15?
It was the same scenario with r&b groups..like In my day was Immature later on IMx and then B2k followed..esp learning what their 'manager' /handler was doing to those young boys smh all while sexualizing mere children and no one batted an eye and this was before the internet and youtube and such i cant imagine the hold these 'relationships' have on people nowadays stuck for real companionship smh its a recipe for disater
@@yoyohayli omg no I never actually interacted with the community online as I was kinda older by the time, but I 100% saw the bullying that was going on. It was more like a personal romantic crush with these idols😭
Bro ikr. Like some of it is funny (Chuu stans are insane and hilarious) most of the time I feel bad for the idols having to interact with wierdo fans. I'll never forget that video where the SKZ members were forced to do video calls with fans who made them call them "baby" "honey" "mommy"
I really like that you used the word "worship" because so often does liking someone turn into 'loving' someone which becomes worship, the line gets crossed unknowingly and far too often. I cannot imagine what it's like to have random people tell you that they love you or generally interacting with you as if you do really have some established relationship. I got to meet Denis O'hare a few months ago at a convention, and I really do love his acting on American Horror Story, and so when i got the chance to speak to him I was terrified of being like "I LOVE YOU SO MUCH" so I specifically said "I love your work on AHS" and specifically mentioned that I love his work, and not 'I love you', and I really hope that it established the exact boundaries of my parasocial relationship in that he is an artist, and I admire his art. Parasocial relationships are a really interesting part of society and art, this was a really good video!
I agree and I’ve never had any parasocial relationship with anyone. From the time when I was a kid and my friends were freaking out about boy bands I just couldn’t get on board. When people meet their idols and are crying, shaking, or paying a huge amount of money or time in order to be near them it seems so strange to me and I get secondhand embarrassment. They’re just people like us. I might love someone’s music but that doesn’t transfer to the artist. It just seems really unhealthy and unrealistic to be so invested in someone you don’t really know.
havent finished the video so apologies if you brought this up already but eden sher, who played sue on the middle, is CONSTANTLY harassed on tiktok whenever she does/says something "out of character" for sue. she had to make a video like "sue is a fictional character, sue is not real, my name is eden." and people in the comments were like "omg sue what are you sayinggg😆sue would never say that who are you and where is sue??" it was insane
I think there are unfortunately a lot of actors/actresses who experience that especially if they were a kid/teen or a unique character in one well-known thing. Keiko Agena and Jenette McCurdy are another couple who come to mind. It’s so sad
Some really solid advice in here for interacting with fandom and some good examples of boundaries such as blocking certain kinds of posts, redirecting parasocial energy into actual friendships, and not relying exclusively on fandoms for social activity. Self reflection and awareness are key to being online without losing your mind so this is a great little check-in for everyone. thanks.
"redirecting parasocial energy into actual friendships, and not relying exclusively on fandoms for social activity" I feel like in this case the isolation came first and then the parasocial relationships. As hard as it is for some people to imagine but there are people out there (hi, it's me) who simply don't have a community for years and years despite working on themselves. I manage to not go overboard with parasocial relationships but I recognize them as a symptom of a society that alienates people and then blames them for it. We can't fix it if we only ask those stans to change, we all have to carry that change.
some of the strongest examples of youtube parasociality can be found in the comments of asmr videos. i think the inherent intimacy & stated goal being to bring people reprieve within the genre, lends itself to this dynamic more than most others. under any given asmr video you can see comments where people feel so comfortable divulging extremely intimate & honesty graphic details about their lives completely unprovoked to a total stranger. it’s a very fascinating thing ngl
There was one person who to me seemed obsessed with Angelica. Like this dude would make semi nonsensical innuendos guised as poetry almost. I never knew why she didn’t block him. 🤷🏼♀️
I was just thinking this! I recently was watching an asmr video and I actually started to feel uncomfortable when the creator kept calling the viewer their ‘friend’, deliberately trying to connect personally to the individual instead of the audience as a whole and really trying to emphasise how special that relationship was and if I’m being honest it seemed disingenuous and a bit harmful to people who have parasocial tendencies. 😬
Yeahhhh I’ve noticed this a lot. Like at one point years ago I guess TingTing mentioned she cuts her hair when she’s stressed out. Well she didn’t post for awhile and when she did her hair was very long and multiple people were saying they were glad to see she was happy (based off her hair). And other weird things of course
@nickibobicky sure you might get some weirdos doing that, but for people with trauma its really nice to be able to "open up" to someone especially someone behind a screen who can't judge you for whatever you are about to say. Its like pretending to talk about it, so eventually you can really talk about it. Anything can be misused, ASMR isn't the only space being invaded by creeps. A few years ago a guy went to a signing booth and unalived a girl who only had 2,000 followers because he was mad she had a boyfriend. She did unboxing videos.
I think true crime can be similar, although the creators have more of a stated comfort with knowing about graphic info but an individual sharing with you directly is still another level
Another, perhaps one of the oldest examples, of parasociality is that between the masses and their rulers. This continues into the modern era with how many people practically worship certain politicians or ceremonial heads of state. I think looking at parasociality in US politics or in how certain segments of UK society treat the monarchy would be an interesting study.
@@redbuggOoo yeah, and also with dictators in totalitarian governments. Like the parasocial relationship that North Koreans have with the Kim family. A 14 year old girl drowned trying to save images of the Kim family from a flood - that’s how intense it is. But yeah, the parasocial aspect with QE2 and how she just wiped of all blame and responsibility of so much in the eyes of the general public and how central something like the Christmas message is to everyone. Hell, I have so many commemorative mugs of royal events and use them all the time without really thinking about it. A super interesting Wikipedia article to look at on this topic in general is the one on “Cult of Personality”. It doesn’t address the UK, but does a good job of addressing the concept in general and you might find some good studies or starting points there.
This is a great point, as an ex-Dem, now leftist, the attitude that many dems/liberals have toward politicians is very parasocial, especially in the way that they want everyone else who broadly agrees with them politically to feel the same way about the politicians.
Thank you, Caroline. Your video essays are always so informative. The parasocial relationships I had with some twitch streamers made me lose money. Should’ve supported myself instead 😂 on a serious note, I think us adults can turn it on/off, but it’s scarier when children form parasocial relationships with some of the content creators they watch.
oh my god i feel so validated that someone else has said that calling someone fat out of concern online is really strange and unnecessary. like i responded to someone “you don’t care about their health you just want to call someone fat lmao-“ cause realistically you have to know that pointing that out does absolutely nothing but make that person (and others) feel bad. they know they’re fat, and they know about the health concerns. someone’s weight has never even crossed my mind, let alone the need to comment on it. like??? it’s so blatantly clear that picking on others makes them feel better about themselves. lame
@@carolineeasomI’m glad you feel free to make whatever content you want! BRB, turning on the notification bell to make sure I don’t miss your next video (not in a parasocial way)
@carolineeasom so far I've loved what you're making!! I really love video essays, and the few that you've made have been very well researched. and I always wanted to see more of your personality come out in the ASMR. I'm here for all of it
I think Caroline is neat but also if I found out she was a habitual baby kicker I'd more then likely be like "not cool..." so alls well para socially here 😊
Sounds like u have a pretty healthy mindset and the way u view folks online etc. Lol i should hope more ppl would take that stance but you'd be surprised how the line is blurred and how much is accepted and regarded as acceptable
Yeah, the way she talked about disappointment with creators was some food for thought. I think I just don't personally feel as much emotional weight goes with the word - at first, I was thinking that there's some times I have felt disappointed in people online. (Finding out that someone I liked uses their money or platform to support a cause I disagree with does disappoint me, I think.) I was able to see what she was saying though at the same time, and I haven't really thought through my position yet. Edit - I was almost done with the video, and then in the last few minutes she really specifically talked about moral and political disagreements. I'll say I definitely feel like I learned something after the specific instance I'm thinking of, where I felt some version of "disappointment" with a creative person. I just don't support their work anymore; I moved on pretty quickly. It's left me more hesitant to recommend media to friends, in case I find out later that the author donates to We Kick Puppies: A Charity or something. That's probably overthinking it though, and I realize that.
It is very refreshing to me that a creator is setting clear, reasonable boundaries and keeping their audience informed of the status of their parasocial relationships. Thank you for this, and I wish more creators were more honest and clear like this.
The world needs more honesty and reality calls like this. PS I was vaguely concerned for Caroline when she stopped posting for awhile after the Sandwich Family videos. Like she was silenced by the Family Blog Mafia. 😂 I was vaguely relieved when she posted again.
I've had a few parasocial relationships, including some unhealthy ones, and it scared me. It hurts a lot when what feels like a soulmate connection turns out to be just your loneliness playing tricks on you. But in the end, I've learned that a crush tells you more about yourself than anything else. For example, I had a crush on an influencer in the medical field. When I shifted my career in that direction, the crush faded away. Another time, I had a crush on a video game character, and when I understood what he represented to me and got more of that into my life, that crush also disappeared. So, I guess these experiences can be helpful too.
Unrelated, I love that blazer. Back on topic, parasocial relationships are fascinating and terrifying in equal measure. You've really put a lot of work into this.
I agree that these relationships go WAY back in our history. I recall a greek myth about an artist that had such strong feelings for his sculpture it came to life, sounds like a parasocial relationahip to me.
That's Pygmalion! He felt no woman was "perfect" enough for him for well, classic Greek culture sexism reasons, so he made a statue of a "perfect woman" and fell in love with it. During Aphrodite's festival, he made offerings to her asking her to bring the statue to life and she did!
Fans of the royals (and formal royals) probably baffle me the most. The TH-cam videos they make saying stuff like "look at them at this event, this is obviously a really close knit family"... I mean, they might be! But what a thing to assert as an outsider just because you saw a video of them performing in public.
19:38 i love this point about grieving for internet animals. i've got a huge heart too and it used to wreck me with that sort of stuff too. it's important to realize that your time is valuable and not to spend it on things that would ruin your peace of mind. anyways, great video from my bestie caroline.
I started to consciously try to stop having deep parasocial relationships with real people when I noticed I was getting too upset if a celebrity I liked did something bad. I figured that that probably wasn't good for my mental health. I will still allow myself to get attached to a character but I make sure to not get TOO attached to the point where I would be devastated if they were all of a sudden gone and I do allow myself tp enjoy celebrities and allow myself to think they'd be fun but I try to not get too deep anymore. And just enjoy the stuff they make
I have parasocisl relationships with my own characters and worlds. It's very fun and keeps me entertained for hours when nothing else is fun. But also, I think all fiction stems from parasocial relationships with our own characters, as writing a story about them is parasocial.
As a new content creator (less than 1 year) I 100% relate to everything you have said. I don’t understand why people send me reels constantly. And when I started my page I had more time so interacted regularly with a few people who nowadays get “disappointed” in me when I don’t reply. It’s very odd the power that a reply from a “celebrity” has for some people (I am not even a subcelebrity but I still see it)
The bangers just keep coming! I'm gonna have to chew on the disappointment angle you brought up because the first parasocial relationship I felt I had was with a sex ed TH-camr, who eventually became a terf. I felt disappointed that someone I'd trusted to be educated and compassionate changed in a way that was harmful and undercut a lot of their own prior work. I wonder if there's a type of "oh that's disappointing" without the intense, personal "I'm disappointed in you" sort of thing?
I think it’s natural to be disappointed when someone you liked isn’t who you thought they were, but I think that comes back to my “don’t assume anything about someone they haven’t directly told you,” point at the end. Did this person say trans positive things in the past and changed positions at some point or did you assume they shared your beliefs about trans rights because they shared your beliefs on other issues? It’s more about not giving celebrities the power to disappoint you. If you never put them on a pedestal, you never have to feel emotionally hurt or connected to their fall. It’s about recognizing the difference between when someone’s changed and when someone informs you of who they’ve always been. Your feelings are valid-feeling disappointed doesn’t mean you’ve done anything wrong. It’s just good to recognize where you were filling in the gaps in your knowledge about a person with what you hoped that person was like.
This is why if you like a creator or character interacting with the community around them can help ground you. Like instead of sending that creator messages like "we could be friends" or memes/videos you could make friends with others who like that creator and send them those videos/memes instead. Basically, forums are a good thing and we need to make more.
I used to have really bad ąnâ and the parasocial relationships are REALLY bad in that community because it’s so tight knit and it’s literally like a secret society. Everyone was hurting sm and sharing sm of themselves to each other. No one really notices it because the whole point is that accounts like that are secret.
i am sooo grateful for of herbs and altars’ work on this subject (as triggering as it is and as many people as i believe should avoid her channel overall for their own mind’s sakes). fortunately i got myself out of the livejournal ana world way back in the day before it got too bad on my end but that shit is so dangerous and scary and sad, good point about the hurting and desperate, unhealthy attachments and idolizations that can form there (perfect example: my intro to ED as aspirational was via following my older cousin’s girlfriend’s LJ in 2004, who i had a huge crush on as a kid and wanted to be)
The part about the emotional energy put towards grief for people you don't know online really spoke to me honestly. I love animals, a lot, and I grief and cry over every sad animal thing I see online and I think you're so strong for understanding yourself and not allowing it to drain your emotional energy if that makes sense.
I feel like a great warning against parasocial relationships is the one I had with Ian Watkins from Lostprophets. I watched countless interviews with him, listened to so much of Lostprophets’ music, and thought I knew him and his personality so well only for it to come out that he is a truly disgusting human being. I was a teenager so I’m not exactly mad about the fact I was that deep but it serves as a constant reminder that you really don’t know anyone, especially celebrities or people you’re only seeing through a screen.
This reminds me of the swifties bullying others and sending death threats publicly with everything going on after what dave ghrol said about taylor swift lip syncing
@@clohbauer I am an anti swiftie because of the shit she has done in the past (Allegedly) dating a 17 yr old when she was 22, but I steer clear of twitter, and reddit, I don't go on hating spree's, I just condemn what she has done and hope further action is taken or whatever (It's the same with everyone else who has done bad things)
Really great video. I think the key with parasocial communities based on specific media fandoms is to find the people for whom you have a lot of different fandoms in common as well as shared values and a shared sense of humor. Then, you can stay friends even when your interests don't overlap for awhile. One of my irl friends used to be my favorite fanfiction author, but the difference between her and the other authors I like is that she replies to every comment, so we talked and she remembered me - her comments began to bridge the gap between parasocial and social. After DMing for a few years, we arranged to meet in person, and now we usually video chat once a week. We aren't always obsessed with the same thing at the same time, but we have so many fandoms and interests in common that there's always something to talk about. Fandom is such a big part of my life that I simply don't care to have deep friendships that don't involve shared media obsessions at all, but because I seek out people I truly have things in common with, my fandom friendships don't have to have an expiration date, and I think that's a pretty good way to do it.
Man that's nice, the last place people were talking nice to me was in a white nationalist group I had to leave when I found out that's what it was. Lol toxic people some can be.
This is a great video and I love your content! I would also just say that I don’t think it’s actually possible to have a “parasocial” relationship with a fictional character. It’s certainly possible to have unhealthy obsessions or attachments to fictional characters, but they aren’t really “parasocial” in nature, because there is no such thing as a “social” relationship with an fictional character, because that character isn’t real. By definition a parasocial relationship occurs between one real person and another real person. The harmfulness of parasocial attachments is predicated around the lopsidedness of the emotional connection - one person feels strongly emotionally attached and feels that they have a deep understanding of, or a friendship or relationship with another human who doesn’t have a real awareness of the fan’s existence or doesn’t view them as a friend in the same way (but the public figure/celebrity etc DOES have real friendships and social connections of their own). Fictional characters can’t have real friends because they don’t exist. There’s no lopsided/one-sided relationship because there never was the possibility of a two-way relationship in the first place. Anyway I really appreciate your insights in this video and being honest about your experiences with parasocial fans etc. Keep up the great work 🖤
Thanks for talking about this Caroline. I think you worded the issue in a thoughtful way without being condescending to the people that fall victim to this phenomenon. There definitely is a tendency for more "vulnerable" people to develop obsessive parasocial relationships and often they need empathy and encouragement so they can get better., and perhaps develop more healthy irl friendships.
I have always been concerned about expectations for women ASMR content creators in particular because of society’s expectations that women be comforters, help-meets, etc. and only that. Ah, the internet!
I recently stopped watching all videos including a content creator I used to follow because I felt such a strong parasocial friendship with them. Its like the human brain will latch on to any connection it feels is there, even if it doesn't exist.
This is brave, and wise. I see the personalities I’m drawn to online as hints to the kinds of people I’d like to draw into my “real” life. It takes courage to do that, and social media temps us to be lazy. Your vids have made me smile lots, thank you! 😊
Thanks for putting out such an articulate, well considered video essay. You summarised my own concerns about the use of social media (something intended to connect us) and how it instead leads to these hollow relationships which then impact on our ‘real’ lives. As someone with a following yourself, it’s especially brave to acknowledge these sometimes manipulative tactics, whether intentional or not, which influencers employ to lead on parasocial relationships with the aim of exploiting those who are most lonely and vulnerable. Thanks for being one of the realest and most relaxing gals on TH-cam right now❤
Love that you do both ASMR content and speak about these important topics especially in this time in the world where everyone is so online. Looking forward to more video essay style content and really anything you put work into!
My assumption would be that people form these overly strong parasocial relationships when they dont feel like the relationships they have in real life are that strong.
I think people can get even more confused with how blurred the lines can be with social media. I can reply to a youtube video, and the creator can even like my comment and reply. I can go watch a streamer, and they might even read my comment and answer in real time, like I am spending time with the streamer in real time. A viewer can easily think "this isn't a stranger - they reply to me and share their personal life with me. I know this person."
it’s hard to imagine that any fully grown adult can have such an intense fixation on a complete stranger. definitely seems to be more common amongst young teens. i do remember, as a middle school girl, reading fanfictions and stuff but that phase is LONG gone now that i’m a 22 year old woman. if an adult is still obsessing over characters or famous people/influencers, there’s a major lack of maturity there and some sort of brokenness that needs healing.
These are such good and level takes in parasocial relationships. You're so right about the microfandom's potential for being dangerous, I've seen it a lot in the creative communities I'm in. We're all technically equals just honing our crafts but quite often some skilled artists that stand out become "micro celebrities" and have their own devoted fans who are often younger less experienced artists. I've seen a lot of people abuse that power (with those younger artists getting hurt because of it) and it rarely gets resolved because so many people have a parasocial relationship with that person - in some cases a decade's worth of inspiration from their "idol". Because we're all in the same community the parasocial bond is even stronger than with a celebrity because even if you've never spoken to that person, they're seen as a friend because of the proximity and people end up going to bat for them like they were a friend, too. It's honestly such a pain in the ass.
So I find this so interesting because there is a TH-camr I follow who has two TH-cam channels and a patreon, I’m not in her patreon, but she also has a public email and she does reply to everyone that emails her. It takes her a while but she will reply. Some of the people she has gotten to know and she also has said she feels they are sort of friends. So that’s interesting. So I feel like that begins to break the barrier of parasocial into real acquaintanceship or friendship
Idk about that, a lot of TH-camrs refer to their fans/followers as their “friends” in either a deliberate or unconscious attempt to encourage the parasocial attachment. The parasociality is the lopsidedness of the dynamic - with a youtuber for example a fan might have watched hundreds of hours of their videos thereby having a very detailed idea of that person’s character, their mannerisms, their beliefs and opinions, things about their personal life they’ve shared, art they’ve made, etc. The youtuber on the other hand has had very little information/contact/information from or about the fan and barely knows them. A few emails, meeting them at a meet and greet etc, having a brief conversation is not the same as a real friendship. It’s still parasocial.
@@liesbeneathoureyes I completely understand what you mean. I’ve emailed her once or so but I don’t really feel like friends with her, I just enjoy her content. I am saying that some of these people email back and forth with her pretty frequently, and while they don’t have her personal information like phone number, she still has said like some of those people the ones she is in more regular contact with feel more like friends. It is only to a select few which makes me wonder if it’s less para social at that point and genuine acquaintanceship or friendship.
Was just thinking about this! And that people dont understand the value and power of their comments. People are super mean or overly familiar online, and it's very shocking when you really think about it. Honestly, the way people see influencers or online creators as vehicles for entertainment and not human beings is the #1 reason why I would never be one. I would just hate to give people like that power over my financial stability or my mental health.
i think a big thing about feeling disappointed or surprised or anything in a parasocial relationship is just... not expressing it to the person. you can be surprised by a personal fact being revealed, you can be disappointed in say... a creator you like doing something you don't agree with, the feelings themselves aren't the issue. it's the expressing it, especially unprompted like i've definitely been disappointed or upset in / with celebrities revealing that they have different opinions on some things than me, but why do i NEED to express that to them? they don't care, they won't see, and if they DO see then it's just going to be ignored because i have ZERO weight in their life (i also... wouldn't really use disappointed. i'm more likely to use upset if i talk about it privately with friends or family, but the point stands) and yeah, if you find yourself constantly feeling disappointed or upset or hurt, that's probably a sign that you should maybe start pouring some of that energy into stuff with real life. but i think feeling that way sometimes in a parasocial way AND NOT EXPRESSING IT WHERE THAT PERSON COULD SEE OR WITH THE HOPE THEY SEE is generally okay. it's like the old saying. feelings aren't the issue, it's the actions or maybe i'm also lost in it and am making excuses. who knows. check me in replies if i'm just lost in it lmao EDIT: lmao got to the end of the vid and the section about moral / political issues. okay yeah. i have zero issues just being like "wow that sucks" and dropping someone if it's That serious. i stopped listening to a lot of musical artists i used to love due to palestine related stuff, and i'm starting to think that's put me in the clear here generally
I love that you brought up parasocial communities, I met some of my very best friends through a content creator’s discord and the way it shaped was wild but it could have gone so wrong
This is such an important topic and frankly good for everyone to hear. I’d like to think I am above it but 100% when someone I just even remotely like my mind automatically goes to wanting to defend them. And I have to check myself and get better at checking myself. I’m not going online in comments and defending anyone, it’s just an internal monologue but it’s definitely frustrating how automatic that process is. To be fair I go through these same feelings with people I actually do know and do like, it’s hard being disappointed with them. But yeah great video and reminder!
PLEASE keep doing these videos essays!! I'm begging you they've helped me bunker down and make art and also fall asleep once I've done I ADORE your voice 👏👏
‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️ under capitalism there is NO SEPARATING THE ART AND THE ARTIST, but i think in a way the antidote to a lot of this creepy parasociality / parasocial relationships is to realize we might have real relationships with the work or art someone creates, but this DOES NOT CORRELATE with having ANY relationship with the artist / person themselves, i in a way do not understand parasocial relationships nobecause i don't understand how people miss this distinction, we would never look at a plumber doing good work and assume they're a good person because the plumb well, but we as a society CONSTANTLY FAIL to make the same distinctions with artists and musicians, plenty of AMAZING artists / musicians are HORRIBLE human beings, and if they are shown to be then we need to step away because to support the art is to support the artist at least in a financial way
Yeah, if someone fucking sucks as a person but makes good art you have a responsibility to not pay for whatever they make. This would include almost all people involved in all creative industries. Piracy is a moral imperative :)
So many good points made here. I don't like it when content creators try to make their viewers feel guilty about the money they're not making. Bro, I did not ask you to quit your day job to do youtube! But I think that leverages the parasocial relationships in a way that is unfair. I am an artist and I feel like when you buy handmade art, you really can't separate it from the parasocial relationships, because you're literally paying more because it's handmade. You can buy stuff from target if you just want stuff. You're buying from me because you're buying an object plus the story you're telling yourself about the object. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ I don't think that necessarily means artists are taking advantage, but social media makes it weird sometimes.
Have you ever heard the song Stan by Eminem? I think it's about a parasocial relationship that a guy named Stan has with Eminem. He writes him twice but doesn't get a response so he goes as far as tying his girlfriend up in the trunk of a car and sending out a very angry message on a cassette tape to Eminem and Stan winds up throwing his car over a bridge. His girlfriend and unborn child escape uninjured but he kills himself. When Eminem finally responds he finds out it's already too late when he sees it on the news but Stans brother Mathew did get the autograph mentioned in the second verse.
i’m relatively popular in a niche that tends to have a lot of parasocial hate directed at creators, and it’s scarier to me than peoples’ romantic, platonic, or sexual parasocial attachments, no matter how intense. it’s a big part of why i only comment on a private account-people expect you to be willing to argue with them because they want to fight you. it’s weird! great video overall :)
Also about smaller fandoms being more dangerous: people *pretending* to be the celeb can scam fans but bigger names constantly go that's not me/I'm verified/I was alerted to this account/etc and it's easier to check. With smaller names it can go unnoticed.
I experienced a crush in 2019 for a youtuber and it confused me. Now I'm familiar with what's happening and I recognize the influence some people have on me when I watch hundreds of hours of them. So I keep only positive influences.
Didn’t even realize I had one of these. He was a huge idol to me, and I saw him as a friend. I’m happy I know it was one-sided, and I’m happy that I left when I read about what he did. I’m not going to lie, though, it was really hard on me.
as a very small twitch streamer, this video is so eye opening and relatable. I also need to check myself and my own parasocial relationships with the streamers that I watch myself. It feels very different with streams than any other social platforms as we are technically talking in real time and I can have full conversations with my viewers, especially as I don't have many. But it can be hard to navigate off stream friendships when people think that we're closer than we really are! anyway, such a complex thing, thanks for breaking it down in such a digestable way 🖤✨
I'm so happy about finding this video (and your channel). I think that "parasocial relationship"- thing is the reason why there's so much frustration going on in online- dating.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the knowledge and well spoken words she gave. I didn’t even know what this topic was and I was thoroughly educated on it and know I’m more mindful of the behavior and maybe can recognize someone that exhibits that behavior. ❤
I liked this video. I was a little mad that I realized I have a parasocial hate relationship with my ex. I justified it for a while because I had legitimate concerns for my safety, but it’s time to move on. I decided that me graduating into a new decade of life last week was the perfect time to cut the cord. I guarantee he hasn’t thought of me in years, no need to let him rob me of more time. ❤
What can I say ? I already knew that Caroline was good whether it’s comedy or anything else. Thank you for having this conversation with all of us…. Best friend 😏😏😏
I can't remember the exact thing this guy told me at a concert when I struck up a conversation with him and was meeting a lead singer from one of my favourite bands, and I said I was nervous (but also really excited) and he just told me 'don't treat them like they're famous' in the way of like, treat them like they're just another person with their own stories and feelings and not someone to put on a pedestal. And the singer was really cool and for a few minutes it was nice to talk to and hug her, get a photo and for her to sign my merch t-shirt. As someone who has to restrain themselves mentally when I get attention from people because of anxiety and loneliness from trauma and neurodivergence, it really stuck with me, even if I only had a short friendly conversation with him after a concert. And it made that experience that much better. I hope he's doing well.
It is a stunning dopamine hit to have the channel owner respond to your comment. I can recall every time it's happened... And it kind of freaks me out 😅 Great video, very well balanced take
This is great to dive into, especially after watching your series of “sandwich family vlogs” Where there is an active push for the kids to feed into parasocial relationships their fan base builds with their personas. Which unfortunately is exactly what happens in real life in these family vloggers homes.
I kept thinking about K-pop as I watched this. I'm a BTS fan. At one point, I was particularly fixated on them and consuming a lot of related content beyond their music. I learned a fair amount of their choreo. I liked making my tiny contribution to them breaking records for most-viewed MVs and such. I definitely had/have my "bias"/favorite (Suga!). And yet... there was always a limit, and always a degree to which I couldn't relate to many other fans. It just wasn't-and isn't-as personal for me. The BTS fanbase gets a bad rap, but I can attest to a lot of positivity in the community. People who, inspired by BTS, band together to support charities. Fans who plan how to show in-person support in a respectful way, keeping each other accountable to stay at a proper distance and avoid making BTS members feel in danger. (I'm referring to public locations where BTS's company has been open about where they'll be, so fans aren't being creepy stalkers.) It's pretty cool. I wouldn't mind being associated with many of these hardcore fans. But I just don't have the dedication and emotional energy that have, and I'm definitely not wired for the intense parasocial relationships that fuel parts of the fanbase. I do think many of the talent agencies/production companies in Korea and Japan milk parasocial relationships in a way that is harmful to everyone involved. It gets pretty icky. But it's not something I want to go into in this comment.
honestly love these videos where you're just talking, ASMR or not i just enjoy listening to what you have to say. I often rewatch the video about child celebrities and family vlog channels too because I just enjoy these sorts of not-quite-video-essays where people just ramble about whatever they want for half an hour
and by "not-quite-video-essay" i mean it's not super mega edited and 3 hours long diving DEEP deep into a subject. I love those sorts of videos too and both have a lot of work put in them but often times something easier to digest and approach like this just sits better
These are great reminders and this video really caused me to pause and look inward. I want to apologize if I've ever contributed to uncomfortable comments via likes or replies, and thank you for sharing and openly setting boundaries and the record straight.
I think this video is overall very reasonable. I refuse to get parasocial with people because it's not only a waste of mental energy to care about someone who doesn't know you exist but also because it could easily be unhealthy, an obsession that makes people genuinely upset when, for example, they're told the specifically curated image a celebrity has isn't really who they are and they are not actually friends with that person. When it comes to celebrities and creators I allow myself to think "I like this person's videos/movies/music" and leave it at that. I think a lot of artists are complete divas anyway lol. But, to people who do get parasocial, I think this video is a gentle eye-opener. You even afford them some leeway in saying it isn't intrinsically unhealthy to feel like a fan could get along with you, so long as they know it's improbable anything might materialize from those feelings. I think this video has the capacity to do a lot of good of it reaches the right ears.
Wow, we're both introverts, and I also feel like I don't have enough time for my friends sometimes! Knowing that, I feel like we hang out IRL exactly the right amount. 😅 In all seriousness, I like your character videos. I put one on sometimes during my work day, and I end up gradually tuning in and out as I focus in on my work. I keep coming back to the mood pods MLM pitch, as I enjoy anti-MLM content and I don't "feel bad" for not focusing on a character pitching me a (hilarious) scam.
Can’t wait to hear about Parasocial relationships from my close friend Caroline
Yes, my close personal friend who would respond if I sent her a dm
God dammit.... You beat me 😁😁😂
LOL
Yes Caroline, my friend who would drive me to the airport if we lived in the same city, but doesn't even know I exist.
Yes, my literal best friend Caroline who would bail me out of jail if I got arrested but has not responded to any of my daily "good morning Queen" DMs 😤
I have a parasocial relationship with Little Sandwich and still sing the Little Sandwich song at least once a week. Send help.
This one is weird because I think Little Sandwich represents the kids in those situations that we wish we could help. My theory why that series did so well and everyone “loves” Little Sandwich.
But do you end it with, “HAPPY 40TH BIRTHDAY, SCOTT!”
Cuz I do. 😂
That skit lives in my head rent free
It drives me INSANE when people are disappointed when content creators dont post and insist that the creator should have posted a message of explanation. I firmly believe that if we're watching free content, creators owe no explanation for absences.
I don’t know a single creators schedule. People get reading upset when the Do We Know Them Podcast upload late. Like Lilly is editing give her time. It’s so weird to me when people get upset about that stuff
@@Chelseabee55 I don't know their schedules either! I subscribe to wayyyy too many people to remember even if I wanted to 🤣
Ik it’s not the same but I don’t like how people get upset when influencers and celebrities don’t voice their political beliefs and say they’re disappointed if they didn’t make a post saying “free Palestine” or something. Like yes it’s an important topic but especially if it’s someone who’s NEVER spoke about politics it’s like.. that’s not what their platform is for. If you want political opinions go to a political platform. I’ve seen so many comments on creators who just haven’t spoken about it and they’re like “I’m so disappointed you haven’t voiced your opinion on this” like… why? They’re not a political person and they’re not your friend, why do you care what they think so much?
Most of those militant Palestine accounts are fake accounts run by feds to make everyone hate Palestine.
Creators get tired - and most work on their own. It’s a hobby… so I’m happy for anything from my favs.
I have a parasocial relationship with your college admissions character
Banker for me lol
to me its the doctor
For me it’s the nail tech 😂
I really like when actors/actresses refer to their character by name in interviews, helps to put that necessary distance between reality and fiction some folks need.
I stopped having parasocial relationships after Zayn left one direction, I was sobbing all day like I knew this man. thank you for having this very important conversation, we need to remind people that this is not normal. obsessive infatuation with a stranger is very dangerous for both parties
Hate to say this is insanely true 😢
this may be controversial but i think january 6th is the perfect example of a type of parasocial relationship. the fact that people idolized our former president so much (i don’t care whether you agreed or disagreed with him on politics) that they took “action” into their own hands by his encouragement is so. so. dangerous. the rise of situations like these need to be talked about more.
So what do you think now about the problem of people taking your former president into their own hands?
@@abcdeshole while recent events reflect a deeply broken and polarized country writ large, at the end of the day it also helps his branding even more. he’s a martyr now more than ever.
It's very cultish, yeah
Honestly being in an extreme parasocial relationship as an ex kpop Stan was insane, like I was truly In love with these men. I truly thought I knew them personally 😭
Were you really young? I have been cyberbullied (lol) multiple times by kpop stans for the stupidest unrelated things that somehow get brought BACK to kpop (when that was never the topic) and every time, it's been mostly girls no older than...14? 15?
It was the same scenario with r&b groups..like In my day was Immature later on IMx and then B2k followed..esp learning what their 'manager' /handler was doing to those young boys smh all while sexualizing mere children and no one batted an eye and this was before the internet and youtube and such i cant imagine the hold these 'relationships' have on people nowadays stuck for real companionship smh its a recipe for disater
@@yoyohayli omg no I never actually interacted with the community online as I was kinda older by the time, but I 100% saw the bullying that was going on. It was more like a personal romantic crush with these idols😭
@@michelletalbot2281 that's truly awful
Bro ikr. Like some of it is funny (Chuu stans are insane and hilarious) most of the time I feel bad for the idols having to interact with wierdo fans. I'll never forget that video where the SKZ members were forced to do video calls with fans who made them call them "baby" "honey" "mommy"
I really like that you used the word "worship" because so often does liking someone turn into 'loving' someone which becomes worship, the line gets crossed unknowingly and far too often. I cannot imagine what it's like to have random people tell you that they love you or generally interacting with you as if you do really have some established relationship. I got to meet Denis O'hare a few months ago at a convention, and I really do love his acting on American Horror Story, and so when i got the chance to speak to him I was terrified of being like "I LOVE YOU SO MUCH" so I specifically said "I love your work on AHS" and specifically mentioned that I love his work, and not 'I love you', and I really hope that it established the exact boundaries of my parasocial relationship in that he is an artist, and I admire his art. Parasocial relationships are a really interesting part of society and art, this was a really good video!
I agree and I’ve never had any parasocial relationship with anyone. From the time when I was a kid and my friends were freaking out about boy bands I just couldn’t get on board. When people meet their idols and are crying, shaking, or paying a huge amount of money or time in order to be near them it seems so strange to me and I get secondhand embarrassment. They’re just people like us. I might love someone’s music but that doesn’t transfer to the artist. It just seems really unhealthy and unrealistic to be so invested in someone you don’t really know.
havent finished the video so apologies if you brought this up already but eden sher, who played sue on the middle, is CONSTANTLY harassed on tiktok whenever she does/says something "out of character" for sue. she had to make a video like "sue is a fictional character, sue is not real, my name is eden." and people in the comments were like "omg sue what are you sayinggg😆sue would never say that who are you and where is sue??" it was insane
Aubrey Anderson-Emmons constantly has to do similar things because everyone calls her lily from modern family and I feel so bad for her
I think there are unfortunately a lot of actors/actresses who experience that especially if they were a kid/teen or a unique character in one well-known thing. Keiko Agena and Jenette McCurdy are another couple who come to mind. It’s so sad
That is horrifying
So stoked abt Caroline’s activism and education around social media dynamics like damn this is awesome.
Some really solid advice in here for interacting with fandom and some good examples of boundaries such as blocking certain kinds of posts, redirecting parasocial energy into actual friendships, and not relying exclusively on fandoms for social activity. Self reflection and awareness are key to being online without losing your mind so this is a great little check-in for everyone. thanks.
"redirecting parasocial energy into actual friendships, and not relying exclusively on fandoms for social activity" I feel like in this case the isolation came first and then the parasocial relationships. As hard as it is for some people to imagine but there are people out there (hi, it's me) who simply don't have a community for years and years despite working on themselves. I manage to not go overboard with parasocial relationships but I recognize them as a symptom of a society that alienates people and then blames them for it. We can't fix it if we only ask those stans to change, we all have to carry that change.
“Being online without losing your mind” would be an amazing book/series title ngl
E
some of the strongest examples of youtube parasociality can be found in the comments of asmr videos. i think the inherent intimacy & stated goal being to bring people reprieve within the genre, lends itself to this dynamic more than most others. under any given asmr video you can see comments where people feel so comfortable divulging extremely intimate & honesty graphic details about their lives completely unprovoked to a total stranger. it’s a very fascinating thing ngl
There was one person who to me seemed obsessed with Angelica. Like this dude would make semi nonsensical innuendos guised as poetry almost. I never knew why she didn’t block him. 🤷🏼♀️
I was just thinking this! I recently was watching an asmr video and I actually started to feel uncomfortable when the creator kept calling the viewer their ‘friend’, deliberately trying to connect personally to the individual instead of the audience as a whole and really trying to emphasise how special that relationship was and if I’m being honest it seemed disingenuous and a bit harmful to people who have parasocial tendencies. 😬
Yeahhhh I’ve noticed this a lot. Like at one point years ago I guess TingTing mentioned she cuts her hair when she’s stressed out. Well she didn’t post for awhile and when she did her hair was very long and multiple people were saying they were glad to see she was happy (based off her hair). And other weird things of course
@nickibobicky sure you might get some weirdos doing that, but for people with trauma its really nice to be able to "open up" to someone especially someone behind a screen who can't judge you for whatever you are about to say. Its like pretending to talk about it, so eventually you can really talk about it. Anything can be misused, ASMR isn't the only space being invaded by creeps. A few years ago a guy went to a signing booth and unalived a girl who only had 2,000 followers because he was mad she had a boyfriend. She did unboxing videos.
I think true crime can be similar, although the creators have more of a stated comfort with knowing about graphic info but an individual sharing with you directly is still another level
Wow, I'm glad my best friend Caroline decided to tell you guys about this 😩👏
Another, perhaps one of the oldest examples, of parasociality is that between the masses and their rulers. This continues into the modern era with how many people practically worship certain politicians or ceremonial heads of state. I think looking at parasociality in US politics or in how certain segments of UK society treat the monarchy would be an interesting study.
I love this thought process, especially with the way it ties in with propaganda.
@@redbuggOoo yeah, and also with dictators in totalitarian governments. Like the parasocial relationship that North Koreans have with the Kim family. A 14 year old girl drowned trying to save images of the Kim family from a flood - that’s how intense it is.
But yeah, the parasocial aspect with QE2 and how she just wiped of all blame and responsibility of so much in the eyes of the general public and how central something like the Christmas message is to everyone. Hell, I have so many commemorative mugs of royal events and use them all the time without really thinking about it.
A super interesting Wikipedia article to look at on this topic in general is the one on “Cult of Personality”. It doesn’t address the UK, but does a good job of addressing the concept in general and you might find some good studies or starting points there.
This is a great point, as an ex-Dem, now leftist, the attitude that many dems/liberals have toward politicians is very parasocial, especially in the way that they want everyone else who broadly agrees with them politically to feel the same way about the politicians.
It definitely feels cult-like in my region of the country when concerning politicians 🫠 cough cough
Thank you, Caroline. Your video essays are always so informative. The parasocial relationships I had with some twitch streamers made me lose money. Should’ve supported myself instead 😂 on a serious note, I think us adults can turn it on/off, but it’s scarier when children form parasocial relationships with some of the content creators they watch.
I’ll do a whole video on parasocial relationships and kids soon!
oh my god i feel so validated that someone else has said that calling someone fat out of concern online is really strange and unnecessary. like i responded to someone “you don’t care about their health you just want to call someone fat lmao-“ cause realistically you have to know that pointing that out does absolutely nothing but make that person (and others) feel bad. they know they’re fat, and they know about the health concerns. someone’s weight has never even crossed my mind, let alone the need to comment on it. like??? it’s so blatantly clear that picking on others makes them feel better about themselves. lame
exactly !!!! realistically how is leaving that kind of comment helping anyone ??????? realistically, that type of person is pathetic in my eyes
it’s so hard to remind yourself that you don’t know rlly anyone you follow online! excited to watch ur video 🫶🏻
Watching this video made me realize I don't have a parasocial relationship with anybody. But I am a big fan! ❤
What amazing world am I living in that three Caroline videos come out back to back?!!!!
We're being spoiled rn
@@shamrock2002 I know right! :D
I’m feeling productive now that I decided I can make whatever I want.
@@carolineeasomI’m glad you feel free to make whatever content you want! BRB, turning on the notification bell to make sure I don’t miss your next video (not in a parasocial way)
@carolineeasom so far I've loved what you're making!! I really love video essays, and the few that you've made have been very well researched. and I always wanted to see more of your personality come out in the ASMR. I'm here for all of it
I think Caroline is neat but also if I found out she was a habitual baby kicker I'd more then likely be like "not cool..." so alls well para socially here 😊
Sounds like u have a pretty healthy mindset and the way u view folks online etc. Lol i should hope more ppl would take that stance but you'd be surprised how the line is blurred and how much is accepted and regarded as acceptable
Yeah, the way she talked about disappointment with creators was some food for thought. I think I just don't personally feel as much emotional weight goes with the word - at first, I was thinking that there's some times I have felt disappointed in people online. (Finding out that someone I liked uses their money or platform to support a cause I disagree with does disappoint me, I think.)
I was able to see what she was saying though at the same time, and I haven't really thought through my position yet.
Edit - I was almost done with the video, and then in the last few minutes she really specifically talked about moral and political disagreements. I'll say I definitely feel like I learned something after the specific instance I'm thinking of, where I felt some version of "disappointment" with a creative person. I just don't support their work anymore; I moved on pretty quickly. It's left me more hesitant to recommend media to friends, in case I find out later that the author donates to We Kick Puppies: A Charity or something. That's probably overthinking it though, and I realize that.
Lots of people are disappointed when other support lesbians 😢 lesbians are always grateful for the support lol
I love lesbians 🧡🤍🩷
@@carolineeasomand we love you (no para)
It is very refreshing to me that a creator is setting clear, reasonable boundaries and keeping their audience informed of the status of their parasocial relationships. Thank you for this, and I wish more creators were more honest and clear like this.
The world needs more honesty and reality calls like this.
PS I was vaguely concerned for Caroline when she stopped posting for awhile after the Sandwich Family videos. Like she was silenced by the Family Blog Mafia. 😂 I was vaguely relieved when she posted again.
Excited for this, her video essay on child stars was stellar and this is a topic I find fascinating
I've had a few parasocial relationships, including some unhealthy ones, and it scared me. It hurts a lot when what feels like a soulmate connection turns out to be just your loneliness playing tricks on you. But in the end, I've learned that a crush tells you more about yourself than anything else.
For example, I had a crush on an influencer in the medical field. When I shifted my career in that direction, the crush faded away. Another time, I had a crush on a video game character, and when I understood what he represented to me and got more of that into my life, that crush also disappeared.
So, I guess these experiences can be helpful too.
I think this is key, fantasies tell you about yourself only, not the object of the fantasy
Unrelated, I love that blazer.
Back on topic, parasocial relationships are fascinating and terrifying in equal measure. You've really put a lot of work into this.
I love the mild yet urgent “mom who just discovered the bill from the App Store” intervention voice. 😂
I agree that these relationships go WAY back in our history. I recall a greek myth about an artist that had such strong feelings for his sculpture it came to life, sounds like a parasocial relationahip to me.
That's Pygmalion! He felt no woman was "perfect" enough for him for well, classic Greek culture sexism reasons, so he made a statue of a "perfect woman" and fell in love with it. During Aphrodite's festival, he made offerings to her asking her to bring the statue to life and she did!
Fans of the royals (and formal royals) probably baffle me the most. The TH-cam videos they make saying stuff like "look at them at this event, this is obviously a really close knit family"... I mean, they might be! But what a thing to assert as an outsider just because you saw a video of them performing in public.
The late Queen (pre internet) was a true professional.
19:38 i love this point about grieving for internet animals. i've got a huge heart too and it used to wreck me with that sort of stuff too. it's important to realize that your time is valuable and not to spend it on things that would ruin your peace of mind. anyways, great video from my bestie caroline.
I started to consciously try to stop having deep parasocial relationships with real people when I noticed I was getting too upset if a celebrity I liked did something bad. I figured that that probably wasn't good for my mental health. I will still allow myself to get attached to a character but I make sure to not get TOO attached to the point where I would be devastated if they were all of a sudden gone and I do allow myself tp enjoy celebrities and allow myself to think they'd be fun but I try to not get too deep anymore. And just enjoy the stuff they make
I have parasocisl relationships with my own characters and worlds.
It's very fun and keeps me entertained for hours when nothing else is fun. But also, I think all fiction stems from parasocial relationships with our own characters, as writing a story about them is parasocial.
same here.
same i love my lil idiots lol
Love the "Caroline's House (Interior)"
As a new content creator (less than 1 year) I 100% relate to everything you have said. I don’t understand why people send me reels constantly. And when I started my page I had more time so interacted regularly with a few people who nowadays get “disappointed” in me when I don’t reply.
It’s very odd the power that a reply from a “celebrity” has for some people (I am not even a subcelebrity but I still see it)
literally just finished the last video and there's another?? we've been blessed 😌😌
A third post in a row?? Also this is great for addressing this topic. Parasocial relationships are strange to me.
This is a great topic that needs more attention. You did a good job addressing your viewers with kindness and empathy.
The bangers just keep coming!
I'm gonna have to chew on the disappointment angle you brought up because the first parasocial relationship I felt I had was with a sex ed TH-camr, who eventually became a terf. I felt disappointed that someone I'd trusted to be educated and compassionate changed in a way that was harmful and undercut a lot of their own prior work. I wonder if there's a type of "oh that's disappointing" without the intense, personal "I'm disappointed in you" sort of thing?
I think it’s natural to be disappointed when someone you liked isn’t who you thought they were, but I think that comes back to my “don’t assume anything about someone they haven’t directly told you,” point at the end. Did this person say trans positive things in the past and changed positions at some point or did you assume they shared your beliefs about trans rights because they shared your beliefs on other issues? It’s more about not giving celebrities the power to disappoint you. If you never put them on a pedestal, you never have to feel emotionally hurt or connected to their fall. It’s about recognizing the difference between when someone’s changed and when someone informs you of who they’ve always been.
Your feelings are valid-feeling disappointed doesn’t mean you’ve done anything wrong. It’s just good to recognize where you were filling in the gaps in your knowledge about a person with what you hoped that person was like.
More useless leftist buzzwords.
Are you lost? What are you doing here if you don’t like it? Don’t let parasocial hate control your life!
I'm disappointed in every human being who isn't a good person. That just seems natural. @@carolineeasom
This is why if you like a creator or character interacting with the community around them can help ground you. Like instead of sending that creator messages like "we could be friends" or memes/videos you could make friends with others who like that creator and send them those videos/memes instead. Basically, forums are a good thing and we need to make more.
I used to have really bad ąnâ and the parasocial relationships are REALLY bad in that community because it’s so tight knit and it’s literally like a secret society. Everyone was hurting sm and sharing sm of themselves to each other. No one really notices it because the whole point is that accounts like that are secret.
i am sooo grateful for of herbs and altars’ work on this subject (as triggering as it is and as many people as i believe should avoid her channel overall for their own mind’s sakes). fortunately i got myself out of the livejournal ana world way back in the day before it got too bad on my end but that shit is so dangerous and scary and sad, good point about the hurting and desperate, unhealthy attachments and idolizations that can form there (perfect example: my intro to ED as aspirational was via following my older cousin’s girlfriend’s LJ in 2004, who i had a huge crush on as a kid and wanted to be)
I’m not sure what this video is about, but as long as my bestest friend Caroline who I totally know personally is posting it I’m here. 😅
The part about the emotional energy put towards grief for people you don't know online really spoke to me honestly. I love animals, a lot, and I grief and cry over every sad animal thing I see online and I think you're so strong for understanding yourself and not allowing it to drain your emotional energy if that makes sense.
I feel like a great warning against parasocial relationships is the one I had with Ian Watkins from Lostprophets. I watched countless interviews with him, listened to so much of Lostprophets’ music, and thought I knew him and his personality so well only for it to come out that he is a truly disgusting human being. I was a teenager so I’m not exactly mad about the fact I was that deep but it serves as a constant reminder that you really don’t know anyone, especially celebrities or people you’re only seeing through a screen.
This reminds me of the swifties bullying others and sending death threats publicly with everything going on after what dave ghrol said about taylor swift lip syncing
I thought of the same thing!!!
Yes AND the anti Swift communities, particularly on Reddit. So much toxicity.
@@clohbauer I am an anti swiftie because of the shit she has done in the past (Allegedly) dating a 17 yr old when she was 22, but I steer clear of twitter, and reddit, I don't go on hating spree's, I just condemn what she has done and hope further action is taken or whatever (It's the same with everyone else who has done bad things)
Really great video. I think the key with parasocial communities based on specific media fandoms is to find the people for whom you have a lot of different fandoms in common as well as shared values and a shared sense of humor. Then, you can stay friends even when your interests don't overlap for awhile.
One of my irl friends used to be my favorite fanfiction author, but the difference between her and the other authors I like is that she replies to every comment, so we talked and she remembered me - her comments began to bridge the gap between parasocial and social. After DMing for a few years, we arranged to meet in person, and now we usually video chat once a week. We aren't always obsessed with the same thing at the same time, but we have so many fandoms and interests in common that there's always something to talk about.
Fandom is such a big part of my life that I simply don't care to have deep friendships that don't involve shared media obsessions at all, but because I seek out people I truly have things in common with, my fandom friendships don't have to have an expiration date, and I think that's a pretty good way to do it.
Man that's nice, the last place people were talking nice to me was in a white nationalist group I had to leave when I found out that's what it was. Lol toxic people some can be.
This is a great video and I love your content! I would also just say that I don’t think it’s actually possible to have a “parasocial” relationship with a fictional character. It’s certainly possible to have unhealthy obsessions or attachments to fictional characters, but they aren’t really “parasocial” in nature, because there is no such thing as a “social” relationship with an fictional character, because that character isn’t real. By definition a parasocial relationship occurs between one real person and another real person. The harmfulness of parasocial attachments is predicated around the lopsidedness of the emotional connection - one person feels strongly emotionally attached and feels that they have a deep understanding of, or a friendship or relationship with another human who doesn’t have a real awareness of the fan’s existence or doesn’t view them as a friend in the same way (but the public figure/celebrity etc DOES have real friendships and social connections of their own). Fictional characters can’t have real friends because they don’t exist. There’s no lopsided/one-sided relationship because there never was the possibility of a two-way relationship in the first place.
Anyway I really appreciate your insights in this video and being honest about your experiences with parasocial fans etc. Keep up the great work 🖤
Thanks for talking about this Caroline. I think you worded the issue in a thoughtful way without being condescending to the people that fall victim to this phenomenon. There definitely is a tendency for more "vulnerable" people to develop obsessive parasocial relationships and often they need empathy and encouragement so they can get better., and perhaps develop more healthy irl friendships.
I have always been concerned about expectations for women ASMR content creators in particular because of society’s expectations that women be comforters, help-meets, etc. and only that. Ah, the internet!
I recently stopped watching all videos including a content creator I used to follow because I felt such a strong parasocial friendship with them. Its like the human brain will latch on to any connection it feels is there, even if it doesn't exist.
This is brave, and wise. I see the personalities I’m drawn to online as hints to the kinds of people I’d like to draw into my “real” life. It takes courage to do that, and social media temps us to be lazy. Your vids have made me smile lots, thank you! 😊
I love your videos about the family with the family channel. More people need to be talking about it, and you're doing it in such a clever way.
This reminded me of some of my favourite lectures/lecturers from university - super fascinating and engagingly presented! Love your content!
You are very wise. Thank you. I already try to distance or minimize parasocial relationships in my life, but this is helping my awareness of it.
Ohhhhh you mean that special thing between me and Mr. Rogers??!!!
Thanks for putting out such an articulate, well considered video essay. You summarised my own concerns about the use of social media (something intended to connect us) and how it instead leads to these hollow relationships which then impact on our ‘real’ lives. As someone with a following yourself, it’s especially brave to acknowledge these sometimes manipulative tactics, whether intentional or not, which influencers employ to lead on parasocial relationships with the aim of exploiting those who are most lonely and vulnerable.
Thanks for being one of the realest and most relaxing gals on TH-cam right now❤
Love that you do both ASMR content and speak about these important topics especially in this time in the world where everyone is so online. Looking forward to more video essay style content and really anything you put work into!
My assumption would be that people form these overly strong parasocial relationships when they dont feel like the relationships they have in real life are that strong.
Yes. I had a parasocial relationship with Gabbie Hanna all of high school
First time seeing long form content from Caroline. I'm so excited
I think people can get even more confused with how blurred the lines can be with social media. I can reply to a youtube video, and the creator can even like my comment and reply. I can go watch a streamer, and they might even read my comment and answer in real time, like I am spending time with the streamer in real time. A viewer can easily think "this isn't a stranger - they reply to me and share their personal life with me. I know this person."
it’s hard to imagine that any fully grown adult can have such an intense fixation on a complete stranger. definitely seems to be more common amongst young teens. i do remember, as a middle school girl, reading fanfictions and stuff but that phase is LONG gone now that i’m a 22 year old woman. if an adult is still obsessing over characters or famous people/influencers, there’s a major lack of maturity there and some sort of brokenness that needs healing.
These are such good and level takes in parasocial relationships. You're so right about the microfandom's potential for being dangerous, I've seen it a lot in the creative communities I'm in.
We're all technically equals just honing our crafts but quite often some skilled artists that stand out become "micro celebrities" and have their own devoted fans who are often younger less experienced artists. I've seen a lot of people abuse that power (with those younger artists getting hurt because of it) and it rarely gets resolved because so many people have a parasocial relationship with that person - in some cases a decade's worth of inspiration from their "idol". Because we're all in the same community the parasocial bond is even stronger than with a celebrity because even if you've never spoken to that person, they're seen as a friend because of the proximity and people end up going to bat for them like they were a friend, too. It's honestly such a pain in the ass.
I absolutely love this format- great pacing, well written and thoughtful video essay - would definitely watch more!
Just what we needed. Another Caroline video🎀
So I find this so interesting because there is a TH-camr I follow who has two TH-cam channels and a patreon, I’m not in her patreon, but she also has a public email and she does reply to everyone that emails her. It takes her a while but she will reply. Some of the people she has gotten to know and she also has said she feels they are sort of friends. So that’s interesting. So I feel like that begins to break the barrier of parasocial into real acquaintanceship or friendship
Idk about that, a lot of TH-camrs refer to their fans/followers as their “friends” in either a deliberate or unconscious attempt to encourage the parasocial attachment. The parasociality is the lopsidedness of the dynamic - with a youtuber for example a fan might have watched hundreds of hours of their videos thereby having a very detailed idea of that person’s character, their mannerisms, their beliefs and opinions, things about their personal life they’ve shared, art they’ve made, etc. The youtuber on the other hand has had very little information/contact/information from or about the fan and barely knows them. A few emails, meeting them at a meet and greet etc, having a brief conversation is not the same as a real friendship. It’s still parasocial.
@@liesbeneathoureyes I completely understand what you mean. I’ve emailed her once or so but I don’t really feel like friends with her, I just enjoy her content. I am saying that some of these people email back and forth with her pretty frequently, and while they don’t have her personal information like phone number, she still has said like some of those people the ones she is in more regular contact with feel more like friends. It is only to a select few which makes me wonder if it’s less para social at that point and genuine acquaintanceship or friendship.
Was just thinking about this! And that people dont understand the value and power of their comments. People are super mean or overly familiar online, and it's very shocking when you really think about it. Honestly, the way people see influencers or online creators as vehicles for entertainment and not human beings is the #1 reason why I would never be one. I would just hate to give people like that power over my financial stability or my mental health.
i think a big thing about feeling disappointed or surprised or anything in a parasocial relationship is just... not expressing it to the person. you can be surprised by a personal fact being revealed, you can be disappointed in say... a creator you like doing something you don't agree with, the feelings themselves aren't the issue. it's the expressing it, especially unprompted
like i've definitely been disappointed or upset in / with celebrities revealing that they have different opinions on some things than me, but why do i NEED to express that to them? they don't care, they won't see, and if they DO see then it's just going to be ignored because i have ZERO weight in their life (i also... wouldn't really use disappointed. i'm more likely to use upset if i talk about it privately with friends or family, but the point stands)
and yeah, if you find yourself constantly feeling disappointed or upset or hurt, that's probably a sign that you should maybe start pouring some of that energy into stuff with real life. but i think feeling that way sometimes in a parasocial way AND NOT EXPRESSING IT WHERE THAT PERSON COULD SEE OR WITH THE HOPE THEY SEE is generally okay. it's like the old saying. feelings aren't the issue, it's the actions
or maybe i'm also lost in it and am making excuses. who knows. check me in replies if i'm just lost in it lmao
EDIT: lmao got to the end of the vid and the section about moral / political issues. okay yeah. i have zero issues just being like "wow that sucks" and dropping someone if it's That serious. i stopped listening to a lot of musical artists i used to love due to palestine related stuff, and i'm starting to think that's put me in the clear here generally
I feel like this video should have way more views! Very thorough. Super interesting and relevant.
I love that you brought up parasocial communities, I met some of my very best friends through a content creator’s discord and the way it shaped was wild but it could have gone so wrong
This is such an important topic and frankly good for everyone to hear. I’d like to think I am above it but 100% when someone I just even remotely like my mind automatically goes to wanting to defend them. And I have to check myself and get better at checking myself. I’m not going online in comments and defending anyone, it’s just an internal monologue but it’s definitely frustrating how automatic that process is. To be fair I go through these same feelings with people I actually do know and do like, it’s hard being disappointed with them. But yeah great video and reminder!
PLEASE keep doing these videos essays!! I'm begging you they've helped me bunker down and make art and also fall asleep once I've done I ADORE your voice 👏👏
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under capitalism there is NO SEPARATING THE ART AND THE ARTIST, but i think in a way the antidote to a lot of this creepy parasociality / parasocial relationships is to realize we might have real relationships with the work or art someone creates, but this DOES NOT CORRELATE with having ANY relationship with the artist / person themselves, i in a way do not understand parasocial relationships nobecause i don't understand how people miss this distinction, we would never look at a plumber doing good work and assume they're a good person because the plumb well, but we as a society CONSTANTLY FAIL to make the same distinctions with artists and musicians, plenty of AMAZING artists / musicians are HORRIBLE human beings, and if they are shown to be then we need to step away because to support the art is to support the artist at least in a financial way
what's with the five interrobangs
Yeah, if someone fucking sucks as a person but makes good art you have a responsibility to not pay for whatever they make. This would include almost all people involved in all creative industries.
Piracy is a moral imperative :)
Like they have to be a good person, they make good music
So many good points made here.
I don't like it when content creators try to make their viewers feel guilty about the money they're not making. Bro, I did not ask you to quit your day job to do youtube! But I think that leverages the parasocial relationships in a way that is unfair.
I am an artist and I feel like when you buy handmade art, you really can't separate it from the parasocial relationships, because you're literally paying more because it's handmade. You can buy stuff from target if you just want stuff. You're buying from me because you're buying an object plus the story you're telling yourself about the object. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ I don't think that necessarily means artists are taking advantage, but social media makes it weird sometimes.
Hi lady I’ve never met. Your talks make me happy and entertain me 🎉 hope you night is 👍
Have you ever heard the song Stan by Eminem? I think it's about a parasocial relationship that a guy named Stan has with Eminem. He writes him twice but doesn't get a response so he goes as far as tying his girlfriend up in the trunk of a car and sending out a very angry message on a cassette tape to Eminem and Stan winds up throwing his car over a bridge. His girlfriend and unborn child escape uninjured but he kills himself. When Eminem finally responds he finds out it's already too late when he sees it on the news but Stans brother Mathew did get the autograph mentioned in the second verse.
Yes, that song is where the term “stans” for obsessive/overly attached fans originated from
i’m relatively popular in a niche that tends to have a lot of parasocial hate directed at creators, and it’s scarier to me than peoples’ romantic, platonic, or sexual parasocial attachments, no matter how intense. it’s a big part of why i only comment on a private account-people expect you to be willing to argue with them because they want to fight you. it’s weird!
great video overall :)
Also about smaller fandoms being more dangerous: people *pretending* to be the celeb can scam fans but bigger names constantly go that's not me/I'm verified/I was alerted to this account/etc and it's easier to check. With smaller names it can go unnoticed.
I experienced a crush in 2019 for a youtuber and it confused me. Now I'm familiar with what's happening and I recognize the influence some people have on me when I watch hundreds of hours of them. So I keep only positive influences.
Didn’t even realize I had one of these. He was a huge idol to me, and I saw him as a friend. I’m happy I know it was one-sided, and I’m happy that I left when I read about what he did. I’m not going to lie, though, it was really hard on me.
as a very small twitch streamer, this video is so eye opening and relatable. I also need to check myself and my own parasocial relationships with the streamers that I watch myself.
It feels very different with streams than any other social platforms as we are technically talking in real time and I can have full conversations with my viewers, especially as I don't have many. But it can be hard to navigate off stream friendships when people think that we're closer than we really are!
anyway, such a complex thing, thanks for breaking it down in such a digestable way 🖤✨
I'm so happy about finding this video (and your channel).
I think that "parasocial relationship"- thing is the reason why there's so much frustration going on in online- dating.
Can we just take a moment to appreciate the knowledge and well spoken words she gave. I didn’t even know what this topic was and I was thoroughly educated on it and know I’m more mindful of the behavior and maybe can recognize someone that exhibits that behavior. ❤
I would love to hear more video essays in the future. This one was really good.
i think a lot of us needed to hear this
Off the topic of the video but your voice is so satisfying to listen to 😭 it makes this video so easy to watch
I liked this video. I was a little mad that I realized I have a parasocial hate relationship with my ex.
I justified it for a while because I had legitimate concerns for my safety, but it’s time to move on.
I decided that me graduating into a new decade of life last week was the perfect time to cut the cord. I guarantee he hasn’t thought of me in years, no need to let him rob me of more time. ❤
What can I say ? I already knew that Caroline was good whether it’s comedy or anything else. Thank you for having this conversation with all of us…. Best friend 😏😏😏
You totally should make a podcast, this is fun to listen to!
These video essays are great! Keep up the stellar work!
I can't remember the exact thing this guy told me at a concert when I struck up a conversation with him and was meeting a lead singer from one of my favourite bands, and I said I was nervous (but also really excited) and he just told me 'don't treat them like they're famous' in the way of like, treat them like they're just another person with their own stories and feelings and not someone to put on a pedestal. And the singer was really cool and for a few minutes it was nice to talk to and hug her, get a photo and for her to sign my merch t-shirt. As someone who has to restrain themselves mentally when I get attention from people because of anxiety and loneliness from trauma and neurodivergence, it really stuck with me, even if I only had a short friendly conversation with him after a concert. And it made that experience that much better. I hope he's doing well.
It is a stunning dopamine hit to have the channel owner respond to your comment. I can recall every time it's happened... And it kind of freaks me out 😅
Great video, very well balanced take
This is great to dive into, especially after watching your series of “sandwich family vlogs”
Where there is an active push for the kids to feed into parasocial relationships their fan base builds with their personas.
Which unfortunately is exactly what happens in real life in these family vloggers homes.
I kept thinking about K-pop as I watched this. I'm a BTS fan. At one point, I was particularly fixated on them and consuming a lot of related content beyond their music. I learned a fair amount of their choreo. I liked making my tiny contribution to them breaking records for most-viewed MVs and such. I definitely had/have my "bias"/favorite (Suga!). And yet... there was always a limit, and always a degree to which I couldn't relate to many other fans. It just wasn't-and isn't-as personal for me.
The BTS fanbase gets a bad rap, but I can attest to a lot of positivity in the community. People who, inspired by BTS, band together to support charities. Fans who plan how to show in-person support in a respectful way, keeping each other accountable to stay at a proper distance and avoid making BTS members feel in danger. (I'm referring to public locations where BTS's company has been open about where they'll be, so fans aren't being creepy stalkers.) It's pretty cool. I wouldn't mind being associated with many of these hardcore fans. But I just don't have the dedication and emotional energy that have, and I'm definitely not wired for the intense parasocial relationships that fuel parts of the fanbase.
I do think many of the talent agencies/production companies in Korea and Japan milk parasocial relationships in a way that is harmful to everyone involved. It gets pretty icky. But it's not something I want to go into in this comment.
honestly love these videos where you're just talking, ASMR or not i just enjoy listening to what you have to say. I often rewatch the video about child celebrities and family vlog channels too because I just enjoy these sorts of not-quite-video-essays where people just ramble about whatever they want for half an hour
and by "not-quite-video-essay" i mean it's not super mega edited and 3 hours long diving DEEP deep into a subject. I love those sorts of videos too and both have a lot of work put in them but often times something easier to digest and approach like this just sits better
These are great reminders and this video really caused me to pause and look inward. I want to apologize if I've ever contributed to uncomfortable comments via likes or replies, and thank you for sharing and openly setting boundaries and the record straight.
That's the weird thing with Instagram. We shouldn't be able to directly message celebrities and for them to be so accessible. It's strange 😂
I feel that your research based / experience based nonfiction videos like this are incredibly profound.
I think this video is overall very reasonable. I refuse to get parasocial with people because it's not only a waste of mental energy to care about someone who doesn't know you exist but also because it could easily be unhealthy, an obsession that makes people genuinely upset when, for example, they're told the specifically curated image a celebrity has isn't really who they are and they are not actually friends with that person.
When it comes to celebrities and creators I allow myself to think "I like this person's videos/movies/music" and leave it at that. I think a lot of artists are complete divas anyway lol.
But, to people who do get parasocial, I think this video is a gentle eye-opener. You even afford them some leeway in saying it isn't intrinsically unhealthy to feel like a fan could get along with you, so long as they know it's improbable anything might materialize from those feelings. I think this video has the capacity to do a lot of good of it reaches the right ears.
You are so smart and I have so much respect for you and the content you make, thank you for making it.
Wow, we're both introverts, and I also feel like I don't have enough time for my friends sometimes! Knowing that, I feel like we hang out IRL exactly the right amount. 😅
In all seriousness, I like your character videos. I put one on sometimes during my work day, and I end up gradually tuning in and out as I focus in on my work. I keep coming back to the mood pods MLM pitch, as I enjoy anti-MLM content and I don't "feel bad" for not focusing on a character pitching me a (hilarious) scam.