Great to hear you mention Wally Armstrong. He was a pioneer in golf video instruction. I still watch his videos and use his training aids occasionally to refresh my basic feels of the swing. Still works.
We gotten that comment before, and we've also gotten the opposite, lol. I think if you get material together from 10 different pros, there's bound to be some overlap... definitely more with some than others.
@@1b0o0 thanks brother! I ddn't mean to sound short with my comment... was on my way to the range. Mike is no doubt a very accomplished instructor and I've heard his ideas second hand in lesson usually, so I didn't want to comment about the nuts and bolts without a better understanding of exactly what he likes to see.
On the downswing is it supination of the arm from the top of the shoulder as you pivot or will the pivot supinate the arm ( staying constant to the body/ pivot) without ‘activating’ supination. Great video as always guys.
Great vid guys, something I’ve worked on for a long time, it’s difficult and I’m definitely sending the signals to my club head much to late, fangs down from now on 😁
It does rotate closed through the impact zone, but not as fast as most people think. It only needs to rotate as fast as is required to stay perpendicular to the path. If you look a Phantom camera capture through impact (high frame rate), the club is surprisingly stable through the impact zone in most if not all pros.
We've actually never seen an instance where the face stays perpendicular to the path... it is always rotating. The face is pretty stable for all levels unless the impact is off the club's COG.
@@AthleticMotionGolf I agree it's always rotating, but only enough to keep it perpendicular to the path in the impact zone. Are you saying that pros rotate it faster than this? Doesn't the rate of closure of an am tend to be faster compared to a pro? I think there is massive confusion on how to release the club/square the club face and most ams tend to square it late-surely that has to lead to a faster rate of closure, causing more inconsistency? Be good to know what you see on your equipment.
It does rotate but not as slow as people think. What you are seeing is response on a phantom camera to a stimulus earlier on, before the top of the swing in fact. Average is about 2500 with some pros as high as 8000 and low as 700. You have to have face angle matching up with what your body and arms are doing and what the other two elements of the club’s motion is doing. Most amateurs can’t close the face angle appreciably faster (I’m talking measured on track man) with similar wrist attitudes hip high to hip high when being told to rotate the club faster. Physically can’t do it. And if your right wrist is in extension you can’t close it beyond square unless your grip is super strong. You can supinate your left wrist as fast and hard as you like and it won’t square up. They have to therefore change something earlier in the swing as well, generally arm attitude, for any wrist speed increase to effect face angle. Clubs - especially irons - as a tools for striking a ball off the ground, are literally designed to be swung in a closing, rotating fashion on the downswing, ie rotate anti-clockwise about itself. Doing anything else is like using a screwdriver to jab at a screw. Some people get very very good at jabbing screws in with screwdrivers but will never be able to apply as much force or counteract the resistance of the screw and wood as well as someone who is using a screwdriver correctly. The wrist and hand ligaments are less susceptible to injury when rotating the club, as they are supinating in a 225 degree horizontal range of motion, in three total planes of motion. I.E. they come to a less abrupt stop than just flipping into left wrist extension as the predominant action. So can absorb more resistance from the collision(s). Which is why people raise up and chicken wing when they flip; in order to release the pressure felt and avoid a heavy collision. Why would you ever want to reduce a joint’s mobility from multiple ranges of motion and therefore potential to absorb and dissipate shock, to one plane of motion? It’s why the left upper arm should not be used to externally re-rotate the club closed, because you will divert torque that at that point is being generated from the club orbiting the hands into a hinge joint - the elbow. Most pros have the elbow facing the target at impact, nonconsciously, for this reason. Your supinator muscle is your friend. Relax it in the downswing.
It could ruin your golf game or you might be brilliant at cricket. Many years ago it used to be like watching paint dry... very defensive. The game has changed a lot. I do have a question though, according to my Zepp my hand plane is in the low numbers often negative but my club plane runs typically a lot higher hardly ever negative. As the Zepp is located on left glove it must be hand rotation that is wrong? Not many ideas suggest a drill to fix this issue, any ideas?
How about a stronger grip or close the face then grip it, the club squares itself. A neutral grip and a square face at setup leads to an open face when the hands are ahead at impact. Trying to manipulate the club in such a short time doesn’t work, you say it yourself, then start playing around with the hanger. A little conflicting.
On your drill with the hanger, Im guilty of keeping my wrist fixed in a position to maintain the clubface square even post impact. Won’t the supination / face rotation type of release cause more shot dispersion compared to a square release? In an attempt to prevent chicken wing, I’ve tried roll release with supination but noticed that my shots are all over the place. The square release seemed easier and I’ve been noticing that it’s gaining popularity recently
![[SIMPLE FIX 🔨] Stop Hitting Thin Shots During Your Golf Game 🛑](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oChwvMpBkWM/mqdefault.jpg)
Great to hear you mention Wally Armstrong. He was a pioneer in golf video instruction. I still watch his videos and use his training aids occasionally to refresh my basic feels of the swing. Still works.
One of the first for sure!
The more I watch your videos, the more it relates to what Mike Malaska teaches. Do you feel this is the case? Great stuff as always Mike&Shaun!
We gotten that comment before, and we've also gotten the opposite, lol. I think if you get material together from 10 different pros, there's bound to be some overlap... definitely more with some than others.
@@AthleticMotionGolf I guess so, but the key concepts you advocate match perfectly with what he teaches. I prefer your approach though. :)
@@1b0o0 thanks brother! I ddn't mean to sound short with my comment... was on my way to the range. Mike is no doubt a very accomplished instructor and I've heard his ideas second hand in lesson usually, so I didn't want to comment about the nuts and bolts without a better understanding of exactly what he likes to see.
Good sound advice. Building a better swing.
On the downswing is it supination of the arm from the top of the shoulder as you pivot or will the pivot supinate the arm ( staying constant to the body/ pivot) without ‘activating’ supination. Great video as always guys.
Probably the first option for most.
Totally trust these guys and their content. Pro vs Am is proof positive. So much conflicting info in golf. 👍
We've got new Pros vs AMs coming down the pipe😉
Just wonderful again lads. Shall continue to share the love ❤️🙏🏻
Love it 🙏💯
If you have a typically 3 degree open impact, could you sort the problem by simply resetting your grip to 3 degrees closed ans swing as before?
There is only one way to find out. Most often things don't happen in a vacuum like that, but you should give it a try.
Great vid guys, something I’ve worked on for a long time, it’s difficult and I’m definitely sending the signals to my club head much to late, fangs down from now on 😁
🐍
A very good point of view! Awsome!
Thanks for watching👊
It does rotate closed through the impact zone, but not as fast as most people think. It only needs to rotate as fast as is required to stay perpendicular to the path. If you look a Phantom camera capture through impact (high frame rate), the club is surprisingly stable through the impact zone in most if not all pros.
We've actually never seen an instance where the face stays perpendicular to the path... it is always rotating.
The face is pretty stable for all levels unless the impact is off the club's COG.
@@AthleticMotionGolf I agree it's always rotating, but only enough to keep it perpendicular to the path in the impact zone. Are you saying that pros rotate it faster than this? Doesn't the rate of closure of an am tend to be faster compared to a pro? I think there is massive confusion on how to release the club/square the club face and most ams tend to square it late-surely that has to lead to a faster rate of closure, causing more inconsistency? Be good to know what you see on your equipment.
It does rotate but not as slow as people think. What you are seeing is response on a phantom camera to a stimulus earlier on, before the top of the swing in fact.
Average is about 2500 with some pros as high as 8000 and low as 700. You have to have face angle matching up with what your body and arms are doing and what the other two elements of the club’s motion is doing.
Most amateurs can’t close the face angle appreciably faster (I’m talking measured on track man) with similar wrist attitudes hip high to hip high when being told to rotate the club faster. Physically can’t do it. And if your right wrist is in extension you can’t close it beyond square unless your grip is super strong. You can supinate your left wrist as fast and hard as you like and it won’t square up. They have to therefore change something earlier in the swing as well, generally arm attitude, for any wrist speed increase to effect face angle.
Clubs - especially irons - as a tools for striking a ball off the ground, are literally designed to be swung in a closing, rotating fashion on the downswing, ie rotate anti-clockwise about itself. Doing anything else is like using a screwdriver to jab at a screw. Some people get very very good at jabbing screws in with screwdrivers but will never be able to apply as much force or counteract the resistance of the screw and wood as well as someone who is using a screwdriver correctly.
The wrist and hand ligaments are less susceptible to injury when rotating the club, as they are supinating in a 225 degree horizontal range of motion, in three total planes of motion. I.E. they come to a less abrupt stop than just flipping into left wrist extension as the predominant action. So can absorb more resistance from the collision(s). Which is why people raise up and chicken wing when they flip; in order to release the pressure felt and avoid a heavy collision. Why would you ever want to reduce a joint’s mobility from multiple ranges of motion and therefore potential to absorb and dissipate shock, to one plane of motion?
It’s why the left upper arm should not be used to externally re-rotate the club closed, because you will divert torque that at that point is being generated from the club orbiting the hands into a hinge joint - the elbow. Most pros have the elbow facing the target at impact, nonconsciously, for this reason. Your supinator muscle is your friend. Relax it in the downswing.
Thanks again, no gears guy and I get the correct thought, rotate arm thru do not keep it like a cricket player!
Never had the pleasure of trying cricket but would love to some day!
It could ruin your golf game or you might be brilliant at cricket. Many years ago it used to be like watching paint dry... very defensive. The game has changed a lot. I do have a question though, according to my Zepp my hand plane is in the low numbers often negative but my club plane runs typically a lot higher hardly ever negative. As the Zepp is located on left glove it must be hand rotation that is wrong? Not many ideas suggest a drill to fix this issue, any ideas?
You guys sure know your stuff. It's all about face to path, ball don't lie, 'nuff said.
Awesome video
Thanks buddy!
How about a stronger grip or close the face then grip it, the club squares itself. A neutral grip and a square face at setup leads to an open face when the hands are ahead at impact. Trying to manipulate the club in such a short time doesn’t work, you say it yourself, then start playing around with the hanger. A little conflicting.
Played with this idea (coat hanger) on the range and wow!! what a tip.... instant fix.
thanks guys
Nice work!
Hooks, especially with driver; how to change swing to prevent.
You guys just saved a drowning man. Thanks!
Glad to help, and thanks for watching!
On your drill with the hanger, Im guilty of keeping my wrist fixed in a position to maintain the clubface square even post impact. Won’t the supination / face rotation type of release cause more shot dispersion compared to a square release? In an attempt to prevent chicken wing, I’ve tried roll release with supination but noticed that my shots are all over the place. The square release seemed easier and I’ve been noticing that it’s gaining popularity recently
I can appreciate what they’re saying I just don’t think after 7 minutes I know what to do to stop slicing.
I love the expensive golf aids
😉👊
Wished I had seen this when I started..the aggravation it would have saved is beyond comprehension......
Better late than never😊