After scanning through maybe two dozen channels like this, I’ve come back to this one. The information is simply given, and far less amorphous, far more practical. Even something like this, where it is minimal necessary exposition, I think of Tolkien…and immediately thought, “that’s a lot of exposition!” But it is minimal necessary exposition…the fantasy genre, and one giant book perhaps allows for more in that scenario. Thank you for the content. It is quite helpful and more direct than the others.
One tip you didn't mention is keep the story going on / interesting during info dumping. Like the moment your character says: 'I don't know shit about online marketing' - which is a great way of making any info dumping about the story, about character development, adding fun in the story, etc... (And actually, 'I don't know shit about online marketing' is the most sticky line in your text - I could rewrite it down myself after following your story only once).
You forgot a fourth hack, it's in your examples but isn't mentioned directly. Hack four: the information is relevant to the *character,* who is learning it for the first time, which helps present the information through a scene in a more natural and plot-relevant way. The character Eric straight up says he doesn't know enough about SuperPACs, and in turn learns that info himself. After all, the last thing you want to do is "explain to the reader," so having it filtered through a character as part of a scene makes it an easier pill to swallow. Like putting medicine in a dog treat, it's probably best if they swallow it without even noticing it's there.
The thing about exposition is that I personally feel that if you're making efforts to avoid it in order to give the reader constant instant gratification, you are doing yourself and the reader a major disservice. The overall effect of an emotional payoff is far greater and more poignant when it is earned through delayed gratification. There are both good and bad versions of info dumping. It's a delicate dance of withholding the information the reader wants to know, and giving them the information they need to know. This is why cliffhangers and exposition are both a thing in story telling. It's interesting how formulaic writing is taught, while style is so individualistic. It is definitely a form of art.
I'm going to have to disagree with point #2, particularly if the exposition is forced. As a reader, when a new piece of information gets thrown into my lap I've gotten to the point where I find myself wondering how it will be used and when. If it becomes pertinent too soon after being deployed, I'll catch on to the call/repeat pattern and find myself annoyed. Personally, I'd recommend depositing the exposition much earlier - perhaps when a character is thinking to themselves - so it feels more like foreshadowing instead of, "Oh, gee, I need to throw this in at the last minute because it's info you need as a reader, but I couldn't think of a place to put it before now." That comes off as lazy writing.
I think there is merit to having a concept be applied immediately after it is explained, simply because it makes it easier to remember. The way I’ve interpreted this advice is that if you are going to HAVE exposition, it should be right before it is applied. But, if you want to reward the reader for remembering what they learned about earlier, only put in a new context, then their understanding mirrors the development of understanding found in the protagonist. In other words: if you put the protagonist in a situation where the exposition is immediately made relevant, that makes it easier for them (and the reader) to follow along in later, less expository sections. There can be a balance to this approach.
TLDR = How do I avoid infodumping in Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Superhero genres on planets WILDLY different than Earth? My SAM: Gamers that also like stories and want a Villain Protagonist winning (apparently only allowable in computer, board and pen and paper games… never in stories.) My setting(s): Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Superhero. My problem: I like exposition. I’ve never gotten subtext. I’m in my 50s. Won’t likely change. Anecdote: With a new board game: “Just try it” wastes my time. I have to page 1 read the rules to get it. Story Grid Question: In settings like the above, how do I avoid “Calvinball” stories? (i.e. “Did I forget to mention that I can…") I’ll use game like references since I THINK Mr. Grahl played video games (from podcasts)… -Massive Factions relations. -New Factions / powerful individuals adding the ball of chaos that throws the protagonist off balance. -Lore (centuries of conflict, magic changes, etc…) -Visuals (descriptions of things with no equivalent on Earth, nothing mundane) -Characters (Legendary known historical figures, again, not from Earth) Obviously, I’m not trying to write WoW or any other game. But it’s not Earth. How do you get around how letting SAM know how it's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from Earth… without infodumping? (In case it matters, I did finish a thousand page book… it sucks… badly… because it was pre-Story Grid… I know… I KNOW…) Tone doesn’t go through well on Internet (apologies for my last message… that one was uncalled for), but it’s a legit question. I’m not being snarky. A legitimate answer is "We don't do that at Story Grid." in which case, could I please be directed to somewhere that does?...
Would describing the scene be considered an infodump? For example, if my character enters a coffee shop i like to describe the sights, sounds, smells, taste, touch, etc. Should i break that up instead of providing it all when they walk in?
MVE... Give the minimum viable exposition your reader needs to feel established in the space is the rule of thumb. Remember... your reader isn't reading to hear about the glorious details of a coffee shop (they probably already know them all anyway). They want to know _what happens next_ so get to that ASAP.
It depends also on the character's mental/emotional state. Have they just gone through something traumatic, thus making them hypersensitive to their surroundings? If not, and unless they're neurotic, then incorporating all five senses like that would probably be overkill.
What's up with exposition? Why is it so dreaded and problematic? Other than creating a good story and creating good characters, there are five goals I constantly strive for in the moment to moment which directly effect the line by line, and they are all based specifically on giving SAM what SAM is constantly looking for: 1.) SAM wants to feel things, to experience emotions, typically by mirroring the emotions in the protagonist. 2.) SAM wants to see things happen. 3.) SAM wants to watch people interact. 4.) SAM wants to engage their mind in the story and figure things out for themselves. Put two and two together. 5.) SAM wants to be exposed to things that are new, fresh, unique, unexpected, and interesting. I try my darndest to serve each of SAM's wants in every single phrase. Of course, that's close to impossible. Writing is hard. It's difficult to do more than one or two of those five things at any one moment in time. They do all kind of blur into each other. #1 is served by bonding the main character to SAM and showing emotion in the story. #2 is mostly served by action. #3 is mostly served by dialogue. #4 is served by parceling out information little by little, and withholding certain things then delivering on them later. #5 is generally served by showing what happens next. We need exposition. It's a necessary evil. But it might be the hardest thing we're asked to do as a writer. The reason it should be both minimum and viable is because it really can't do any of those five things well, regardless how good it is, and that is why it has a tendency to verge toward the boring-it has great difficulty giving SAM what SAM is actually looking for. Forget 1, 2, and 3-it can't really do those well at all. It can do #4, but only if you structure things to create wonder and curiosity, which are kind of the antithesis of delivering facts (which is what exposition is based on), and the reason #5 is difficult it's because there is nothing new under the sun. Everything's already been done. 'New, fresh, and unique' are pretty hard to come up with. 'Unexpected and interesting' aren't a walk in the park either. There are techniques for combining some of the five elements above directly in moments of exposition (do that whenever possible), but parceling out exposition only as needed, hopefully in little bites to prevent SAM from drifting out of the fictive dream, and hopefully at the exact moments in time when SAM is primed to need it, or even to want it, is definitely the way to go when those techniques can't be employed. Minimum, and viable. And that is why.
I’ve always gone with a simpler rule - if no one in the scene doesn’t understand something, it doesn’t need to be explained. Granted I’m doing sci-fi, so there are lots of technology and science behind it, but it’s also a world in which such things are as ordinary as things we see in our world.
I feel ya there. My first draft was almost 2 mil words before the inciting incident! >_< I'm a dialogue fiend. One of the great things about long writing is you get your ideas down, ideas you can use in later drafts!
@@MrNoucfeanor you're either lying, or you have serious problems. I don't believe you actually wrote seven thousand pages of nonsense before your inciting incident.
@silverletter4551 Most of it was written in the hospital after breaking my leg; a cocktail of drugs, pain and intense boredom can be a heck of a motivator, + I had no concept of an inciting incident at the time. I don't care if you believe me or not. None of that garbage will ever be published regardless... Keep judging bro/sis!
After scanning through maybe two dozen channels like this, I’ve come back to this one. The information is simply given, and far less amorphous, far more practical. Even something like this, where it is minimal necessary exposition, I think of Tolkien…and immediately thought, “that’s a lot of exposition!” But it is minimal necessary exposition…the fantasy genre, and one giant book perhaps allows for more in that scenario.
Thank you for the content. It is quite helpful and more direct than the others.
One tip you didn't mention is keep the story going on / interesting during info dumping. Like the moment your character says: 'I don't know shit about online marketing' - which is a great way of making any info dumping about the story, about character development, adding fun in the story, etc... (And actually, 'I don't know shit about online marketing' is the most sticky line in your text - I could rewrite it down myself after following your story only once).
You forgot a fourth hack, it's in your examples but isn't mentioned directly. Hack four: the information is relevant to the *character,* who is learning it for the first time, which helps present the information through a scene in a more natural and plot-relevant way. The character Eric straight up says he doesn't know enough about SuperPACs, and in turn learns that info himself.
After all, the last thing you want to do is "explain to the reader," so having it filtered through a character as part of a scene makes it an easier pill to swallow. Like putting medicine in a dog treat, it's probably best if they swallow it without even noticing it's there.
The thing about exposition is that I personally feel that if you're making efforts to avoid it in order to give the reader constant instant gratification, you are doing yourself and the reader a major disservice. The overall effect of an emotional payoff is far greater and more poignant when it is earned through delayed gratification.
There are both good and bad versions of info dumping. It's a delicate dance of withholding the information the reader wants to know, and giving them the information they need to know. This is why cliffhangers and exposition are both a thing in story telling.
It's interesting how formulaic writing is taught, while style is so individualistic. It is definitely a form of art.
Anything with rules probably shouldn't be called art, as art has no defined rules.
If you can write a compelling plot that turns campaign finance law, then you are a good writer.
I'm going to have to disagree with point #2, particularly if the exposition is forced. As a reader, when a new piece of information gets thrown into my lap I've gotten to the point where I find myself wondering how it will be used and when. If it becomes pertinent too soon after being deployed, I'll catch on to the call/repeat pattern and find myself annoyed.
Personally, I'd recommend depositing the exposition much earlier - perhaps when a character is thinking to themselves - so it feels more like foreshadowing instead of, "Oh, gee, I need to throw this in at the last minute because it's info you need as a reader, but I couldn't think of a place to put it before now." That comes off as lazy writing.
I think there is merit to having a concept be applied immediately after it is explained, simply because it makes it easier to remember.
The way I’ve interpreted this advice is that if you are going to HAVE exposition, it should be right before it is applied. But, if you want to reward the reader for remembering what they learned about earlier, only put in a new context, then their understanding mirrors the development of understanding found in the protagonist.
In other words: if you put the protagonist in a situation where the exposition is immediately made relevant, that makes it easier for them (and the reader) to follow along in later, less expository sections. There can be a balance to this approach.
TLDR = How do I avoid infodumping in Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Superhero genres on planets WILDLY different than Earth?
My SAM: Gamers that also like stories and want a Villain Protagonist winning (apparently only allowable in computer, board and pen and paper games… never in stories.)
My setting(s): Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Superhero.
My problem: I like exposition. I’ve never gotten subtext. I’m in my 50s. Won’t likely change.
Anecdote: With a new board game: “Just try it” wastes my time. I have to page 1 read the rules to get it.
Story Grid Question: In settings like the above, how do I avoid “Calvinball” stories? (i.e. “Did I forget to mention that I can…")
I’ll use game like references since I THINK Mr. Grahl played video games (from podcasts)…
-Massive Factions relations.
-New Factions / powerful individuals adding the ball of chaos that throws the protagonist off balance.
-Lore (centuries of conflict, magic changes, etc…)
-Visuals (descriptions of things with no equivalent on Earth, nothing mundane)
-Characters (Legendary known historical figures, again, not from Earth)
Obviously, I’m not trying to write WoW or any other game. But it’s not Earth. How do you get around how letting SAM know how it's COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from Earth… without infodumping?
(In case it matters, I did finish a thousand page book… it sucks… badly… because it was pre-Story Grid… I know… I KNOW…)
Tone doesn’t go through well on Internet (apologies for my last message… that one was uncalled for), but it’s a legit question. I’m not being snarky. A legitimate answer is "We don't do that at Story Grid." in which case, could I please be directed to somewhere that does?...
Would describing the scene be considered an infodump? For example, if my character enters a coffee shop i like to describe the sights, sounds, smells, taste, touch, etc. Should i break that up instead of providing it all when they walk in?
MVE... Give the minimum viable exposition your reader needs to feel established in the space is the rule of thumb. Remember... your reader isn't reading to hear about the glorious details of a coffee shop (they probably already know them all anyway). They want to know _what happens next_ so get to that ASAP.
It depends also on the character's mental/emotional state. Have they just gone through something traumatic, thus making them hypersensitive to their surroundings? If not, and unless they're neurotic, then incorporating all five senses like that would probably be overkill.
Thank you!
What's up with exposition? Why is it so dreaded and problematic?
Other than creating a good story and creating good characters, there are five goals I constantly strive for in the moment to moment which directly effect the line by line, and they are all based specifically on giving SAM what SAM is constantly looking for:
1.) SAM wants to feel things, to experience emotions, typically by mirroring the emotions in the protagonist.
2.) SAM wants to see things happen.
3.) SAM wants to watch people interact.
4.) SAM wants to engage their mind in the story and figure things out for themselves. Put two and two together.
5.) SAM wants to be exposed to things that are new, fresh, unique, unexpected, and interesting.
I try my darndest to serve each of SAM's wants in every single phrase. Of course, that's close to impossible. Writing is hard. It's difficult to do more than one or two of those five things at any one moment in time.
They do all kind of blur into each other. #1 is served by bonding the main character to SAM and showing emotion in the story. #2 is mostly served by action. #3 is mostly served by dialogue. #4 is served by parceling out information little by little, and withholding certain things then delivering on them later. #5 is generally served by showing what happens next.
We need exposition. It's a necessary evil. But it might be the hardest thing we're asked to do as a writer. The reason it should be both minimum and viable is because it really can't do any of those five things well, regardless how good it is, and that is why it has a tendency to verge toward the boring-it has great difficulty giving SAM what SAM is actually looking for.
Forget 1, 2, and 3-it can't really do those well at all. It can do #4, but only if you structure things to create wonder and curiosity, which are kind of the antithesis of delivering facts (which is what exposition is based on), and the reason #5 is difficult it's because there is nothing new under the sun. Everything's already been done. 'New, fresh, and unique' are pretty hard to come up with. 'Unexpected and interesting' aren't a walk in the park either.
There are techniques for combining some of the five elements above directly in moments of exposition (do that whenever possible), but parceling out exposition only as needed, hopefully in little bites to prevent SAM from drifting out of the fictive dream, and hopefully at the exact moments in time when SAM is primed to need it, or even to want it, is definitely the way to go when those techniques can't be employed.
Minimum, and viable. And that is why.
I’ve always gone with a simpler rule - if no one in the scene doesn’t understand something, it doesn’t need to be explained. Granted I’m doing sci-fi, so there are lots of technology and science behind it, but it’s also a world in which such things are as ordinary as things we see in our world.
Story grid is my homeboy
Any tips on avoiding over-writing? I'm nearly 100k words into my manuscript and my protag isn't out of his hometown yet, lol.
I feel ya there. My first draft was almost 2 mil words before the inciting incident! >_< I'm a dialogue fiend.
One of the great things about long writing is you get your ideas down, ideas you can use in later drafts!
@@MrNoucfeanor you're either lying, or you have serious problems. I don't believe you actually wrote seven thousand pages of nonsense before your inciting incident.
@silverletter4551 Most of it was written in the hospital after breaking my leg; a cocktail of drugs, pain and intense boredom can be a heck of a motivator, + I had no concept of an inciting incident at the time.
I don't care if you believe me or not. None of that garbage will ever be published regardless...
Keep judging bro/sis!