My latest sit down with First Watt and Pass Labs' Nelson Pass
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ม.ค. 2021
- This is Part 1 of Steve's latest chat with Nelson Pass. He designs amplifiers for First Watt and Pass Labs. Here's Part 2, • More with Nelson Pass
My First Watt F8 review • Comparison review: Fir...
First Watt www.firstwatt.com
Pass Labs www.passlabs.com
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SME V tonearm sme.co.uk/audio/product/serie...
Ortofon Cadenza Blue cartridge
Van Den Hul Grail phono preamp audioshield-distribution.com/...
Jay’s Audio CD Transport www.jays-audio.com/
Denafrips Terminator DAC www.denafrips.com/terminator
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Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ mytekdigital.com/hifi/product...
Border Patrol DAC borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm
Oppo BDP 105 Blu ray player www.oppodigital.com/support/b...
Pass Labs XP30 preamp
Pass Labs HPA 1 preamp/headphone amp www.passlabs.com/products/hpa-1/
Pass Labs XA25 power amp www.passlabs.com/products/xa25/
Pass Labs XA100.5 power amp
First Watt J2 power amp www.firstwatt.com/j2.html
First Watt F7 power amp www.firstwatt.com/f7.html
First Wat F8
First Watt SIT3 power amp www.firstwatt.com/pdf/prod_sit...
Amp Camp Amp Stereo diyaudiostore.com/collections...
Schiit Aegir power amp www.schiit.com/products/aegir
Mytek Brooklyn Amp+ mytekdigital.com/hifi/product...
Decware Zen Triode
Denon PMA600NE integrated amp usa.denon.com/en/shop/amplifi...
Klipsch Cornwall IV speakers • Klipsch Cornwall IV wi...
KEF LS50 speakers
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Adam Audio F5 speakers
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I once suggested a new transistor part to Nelson (note I have zero electrical knowledge, I just knew that this was new). Not only did Nelson respond but bought the part and tried it. He's a very humble man and still pushing for innovation.
I could listen to Nelson talk for hours. A man talking about his passion.
It’s also his tone of voice and rhythm of his delivery, very easy to listen to and I think reveals something about his character
I just love how whole-heartedly Mr Pass engages his craft and is motivated by the work, not the money per-se which shines through his embracing the DIY community by not just offering kits for those who cant spend thousands on gear, but also assisting them in their pursuit of building clones of his designs. No dissrespect, but try asking Mark Levinson to help you clone one of his designs and see how far that goes, ; )
The man the myth the legend Mr.Nelson Pass thanks steve !
I have a good old Adcom 555 which Nelson designed for Adcom ( The 1980s Adcom GFA Amps were Nelson's brainchild for those of you who aren't aware ) and I could afford a more expensive amp, have good ears, but I have NO desire to switch it out or feel it is a weak link in my High-End system. My point is, Nelson's designs are so well thought-out, "a good design is a good design". Period. Regardless of where it came from, and no matter the original retail cost. Stereophile was comparing that particular amp to amps 4 and 5 times the price back in the day :)
My first separates were a 545 amp and 400 pre/tuner. I have since moved on but they were outstanding.
@@jeffreyswanson2207 Right! For sure man :)
Thanks, Steve, and a big thanks to Nelson. I've been sparked and I just turned on some of my First watt kit for an afternoon jam.
Nelson is amazing. Since I own, and love, an Aleph 3, I wish I could see him talk about the older Aleph line.
Love my F7, waiting to demo the F8 for myself.
Great interview(s) with one of the most unique designers in audio. Also nice name drop of African Head Charge!
There was a time about 30 years ago when Steve and I both got deeply into Adrian Sherwood On U Sound productions.
my sit-3 plays very nicely with my AN-E silver coil AlNico driver hemp woofer speakers which are nominal 6 ohm. Not super grippy bass 👉 but very full and still defined but with EASE.... 'love this amp' - and this combination🌷
thanks Steve. you da best
I have never heard an explanation that is so simple to understand than the one that Nelson is giving here. I have heard Nelson give a tutorial in front of other engineers and that was not understandable. Wondering how many hours per day Nelson puts into his designs
Hey Steve , I’ve noticed you kinda have your hands full with those First Watt amps ..
Great interview with Papa Pass. Fascinating that a-technical Steve pulls some of the best technical info out of a Nelson Pass interview.
EG - I really like the sound of many Pass amps, but always felt underwhelmed by the F5. We learn that it is the predecessor to the F7, and falls into a different sonic group that Nelson describes as accurate but not exciting. That was precisely my reaction to the F5 where as the SIT-3 diy clone I heard had all kinds of exciting triode sounds to it.
wow, I've never seen so many spam comments. reporting the all. Love Nelson, have built diy amps based on his designs many times.
awesome!
What's that high-pitched whining noise in the background? Is one of his amps on?
What high pitched whine? Oh that, it’s my Illudium Q-36 Explosiive Space Modulator.
Nelson's Tesla Coil 👽
I think it’s his test equipment?? When I go to my technician’s workshop there are noises like that from his test equipment.
i Hear it too.
He's in his garage, lot's of test equipment and a couple computers. No amps last time I was there except those being constructed.
On the unobtainium parts. These were obviously produced for things that no longer use them in quantities needed to insure production. What were these things, and what parts do they use now?
I love these. But here, they do remind one of inviting a clockmaker to teach a kindergarten class to tell time. [grinning and ducking for cover]
Ah yes the old lateral MOSFET. No thermal runaway, easy to parallel. Not so sure they age well. Hafler used them. Newark had some but I see those too have since been discontinued.
I used to wait on Nelson and his wife at Tre Pazzi they are the sweetest most cool people ever.
Wish I would have been into hifi back then I could have learned a lot. But I knew I was in some rare company.
It’s because of Nelson Pass DYI I never have to buy audio equipment I just build my own from scratch with Nelson Pass Designs he gives to people as do it yourself projects.
And when I have family friends or coworkers get interested in music I lend them one of Nelson Pass design amps and if they like it but they’re not interested or capable of building it themselves. I just tell them and show them FIRST WATT or PASS LABS Website and they can purchase the product for themselves without having to build it.
@GeneralCurtis3LeMay that’s why I purchase the near extinct real Toshiba JFETs directly from DYI audio website to get the real McCoy.
I purchased the highest quality components sometimes 10 or in lots of 100 and hand match and balance every component to be used in the left and right channels.
If I only need four or even six MOSFETs I will buy a whole production run of the same lot number in quantities of 100 and set them up on a jig and drive them and match each piece into a set of perfectly matched components.
Something you can’t get from mass production off the shelf big companies stereo equipment.
Learn from Nelson Pass
At one point Nelson mentioned there were new transistors coming due to the electric cars. I am wondering if any of those devices found their way into his amps?
I'm interested to know that, too. Devices used in automotive are very switchmode based. Switch mode power supplies and H-bridges for motor drivers need low capacitance and short linear region devices, so they can switch on and off faster and with less dissipation in the linear region. These devices are quite the antithesis of audio amplifier power devices. If Nelson can find a way to operate IGBTs, FinFETs, TrenchMOS, HexFETs, and the new Gallium Nitride (GaN) in Class A he would be make a new future for audio.
What would Nelson think about my Lyngdorf TDAI-1120?
Nelson needs to re-engineer the thermals on his labtop. That fan is shouting at him.
Can anyone hear a 1024 hz pure tone in the background?
It’s just my tinnitus
Haha I was actually about to comment on it and saw this!
@@davidsmithson9236 There ya go! I thought it was _my_ tinnitus...
Does anyone know where I can get a service manual for my threshold s150 amp. Nelson Pass sold the company and I need mine fixed
Sounds like a pleasant guy.
Steve, compared to normal, there's a clear tonal difference with this submission... thru your intro til 1:12 when the interview begins.
Right, zoom does weird things to audio. It’s not so great for video either
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac
I'm referring to the portion prior to the interview.
But does it matter?
@@offason
He explained elsewhere it was accidentally sped up during editing, and no ... it's not a big deal.
Lucky my tablet has a Nelson pass filter built in.
Since most MOSFETs are designed for switching applications, I wonder what NP would do different if he was designing one to make it work better for audio. 🤔
Anybody know who I can have recap my Nakamichi PA5 and how to contact them?
Are you, Steve, having to grow little plants while doing the ironing?
Is there a case to be made that Nelson makes the solid state version of Zen Amps?
I'd say!
Did you use a different mic in the intro? Very little base, you almost sound like sped up. :)
I agree. I thought I had sped up playback on TH-cam.
@@petez4608 glad to hear, I already was in doubt as I had moved my speakers and carpet a little. :)
Agreed, and commented about it as well.
Steve answered saying Zoom blah blah,... I reiterated no, it's the intro prior to the Zoom portion.
Something in the chain was distinctly different.
I view/listen via quality in-ears.
Oftentimes I consume his content at 2x, and even at 2x I heard the difference, backed off to 1x to double check.
Pass is God!!
Seems like the speed is off for the Intro. I turned it to .75 as the Higher voice pitch threw me off right away.
You have 5 Pass amps in your apartment. There is 5 Pass amps in your home. You actually got 5 Pass products there. He is housing 4 different First Watts and 1 Pass Labs.
-Can't believe Steve, has 5 Pass.
After looking at the prices of these amps, I'll give them a Pass.
his diy amps are affordable🙂
Which form of audible distortion in Nelson Pass's amplifiers do you like best Steve? Personally I prefer no audible distortion. I know Pass's background is in physics but what he does is not engineering, it's tinkering. This is virtually universal in this industry. That's why it never goes anywhere.
You're probably right. What could he add to his approach to make it qualify more as engineering and less as tinkering?
@@bradatherton9369 The first thing an engineer does is define a specific list of goals. As this is an area of electronics the goals must be defined in terms electrical engineers understand and they understand a lot. Two things they should understand is that the loads their amplifiers will see are not 4 and 8 ohm resistors. They will be complex reactive loads especially with the screwball crossover networks speaker designers have to use to make their speakers sound the way they want them to. Some speakers will also generate a reverse EMF applying voltage and current back to the amplifier.. The other thing they need to understand is that the source impedance may be fairly high so the input impedance must be many orders of impedance higher so as not to load the source down. If you want to see an example look at the measurements of any Nagra preamplifier in Stereophile magazine.
If you are going to use negative feedback take the course first or you won't know what you are doing This is one of the hardest courses for an undergraduate electrical engineering. The textbook I used was written by two air force generals, was targeted at EE seniors and EE masters degree candidates and had more calculus than a calculus textboik. You also need to know how to mathematically model circuits including the electrical properties of tubes and transistors. Finally you need to use test methodology that will determine how your results compare to your goals. So far this industry hasn't developed them, relying instead on methods developed in the 1930s and 1940s. When two things measure the same but perform differently you are measuring the wrong things.
@@markfischer3626 You're detailed response is greatly appreciated. As a senior electrical engineer of semiconductor device physics and control theory applied toward amplifier design I would happen to agree to a large degree with what you stated.
I'm happy to invite myself in and expand on a couple points. There is a lot of snake oil to watch out for. Top down design of amplifiers has yet to be fully exercised. Most all commercial/consumer amps are spec-driven, yet I'd say the wrong types of specs are emphasized. Too much global feedback for THD and Damping Factor results in the step response overshoot and garbage for high frequency and transient content. This makes room for the Nelson Passes, John Curls, etc to do their tinkering, and for lack of an alternative, do very well at it. Douglas Self has some really good books on amp design, he does well to characterize the various types of distortion such as THD, IMD, and what gets the least attention but is most important (IMO)- Crossover Distortion. CD is nasty because it is not harmonically related, and the human ear is very sensitive to it whilst a Fletcher Munson study has yet to happen for the most critical characteristics of an amp. For the record, 'audible distortion' is subjective, so if you prefer 'no audible distortion' can you put that into spec form in terms of THD (even and odd), IMD, CD, etc? Rhetorical question, really, just to make a point.
I've examined Nelson Pass's work critically and been very impressed by his choices of applying active loading, current mirrors, etc in atypical ways, and my ears agree. Very creative and pragmatic. You made a crack at him as a tinkerer, I can agree but also say he does it with style. The you battered the entire industry, that's when I realized it wasn't a personal attack on NP. I have a similar frustration and want/expect more from it. But the 70s set sail a long time ago, and that was the hayday of discrete amp design. Along came the 80s with monolithic amps for high volume and bye bye went the demand for amp designers to flourish. It's only gone downhill since then. Then came the mp3, and society lost it's chance at having a critical ear due to lack of material that brings out the best/worst in audio gear.
Sorry to ramble on, but you really struck a chord. Cheers!
Aleph
ok...for I'm using 1X play, but some reason Steve sounds like he's been abusing Helium this episode. Is it just me?
Lots of noise on this Zoom, so I tried to minimize it
I was prepared to watch this interview, but had to stop a few minutes into it because of the high-pitched noise in the background. Mr. Guttenberg, as an audiophile and critical listener, didn't this bother you? I enjoy your channel and reviews, just couldn't get past the distraction in this one.
"It cuts down on copycats" but also on ability to be repaired with no replacements parts available
He keeps enough parts on hand to handle any repairs.
Pass Labs and First Watt amps are extremely reliable. If there is a problem, other than misuse, they stand behind their products and have a stash of replacement parts.
My Papa is smarter than that guy :)
your brain is being entrained by his binaural Tesla coils in the background😂
Ha! Diyaudio . Com reference :)
Yeah, the F8 is downright FUGLY!
Video about hifi audio. Killing us with horrible vacuum cleaner sounding noise....
Zoom
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac It's probably a condenser microphone. They pick up just about every aound in a room. I definitely would not expect you to send expensive audio equipment to every guest. I thank you for continuing to release content. I applaud you for the way you have adapted in order to do so.
more money than brains...
have no idea what he's talking about
Hate these snobby amps with no tone controls. They assume we all live in acoustically perfect rooms. No thanks.
your comment makes no sense
@@dinhduynguyen3809 He obviously has NO clue what he's talking about lol
Tone controls are for crappy speakers that need to be adjusted in order for them to sound good.
Tone controls can be quite useful if they're adequately transparent.
That said, I've never seen them on an amplifier... and I'm entering my sixth decade in audio.
Damn, hard to believe I had to count them out (70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, 10s, 20s).
Reminds me, I remember Pass having a DIY 45w class A kit amp I experimented with at least 30yrs ago.
Preamplifiers have tone controls.
For the life of me I can not figure out why this man is so loved. Yes, he shares his designs, but openly admits that he is stock piling the parts and only he has them or can get them. I have never seen a man brag about his attempts to buy out every part that the community needs to build amps
@Alex Brinkerhoff I have been considering Raven Nighthawk. Was thinking about Prima Luna but I think Raven is going to be hard to beat. Very difficult to find used ones for sale, that's a strong indicator. Impressive reviews from various sources.
@Alex Brinkerhoff what did you replace it with? I'm considering the Raven Osprey instead of the Raven Nighthawk.
With no offence meant, I've seen enough of this guy.
Lol! Well hope u didn’t force yourself to watch the whole thing then! Personally, I very much enjoy listening to Nelson. I learn something every time. I would love to hang out in his workshop for a while.
Nelson is a legend.
We were told to expect the Herb Reichart video this weekend so as much as i enjoy Nelson, this is dissapointing.
@@pkats9093 I didnt watch a second of it.
@@marcusm5127 I'm sure he is. I don't doubt that. But it doesn't make him interesting viewing.
Which form of audible distortion in Nelson Pass's amplifiers do you like best Steve? Personally I prefer no audible distortion. I know Pass's background is in physics but what he does is not engineering, it's tinkering. This is virtually universal in this industry. That's why it never goes anywhere.