Comparison review: First Watt F8, J2, F7, and SIT3 power amplifiers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ม.ค. 2021
- Today Steve reviews the First Watt F8 power amplifier, and compares it to the First Watt J2, F7, and SIT3 power amps. Link to the First Watt F8 page, www.firstwatt.com/f8.html
The new Nelson Pass interview, Parts 1 & 2 will post on Monday.
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SME V tonearm sme.co.uk/audio/product/serie...
Ortofon Cadenza Blue cartridge
Van Den Hul Grail phono preamp audioshield-distribution.com/...
Jay’s Audio CD Transport www.jays-audio.com/
Denafrips Terminator DAC www.denafrips.com/terminator
Denafrips Ares DAC www.denafrips.com/ares
Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ mytekdigital.com/hifi/product...
Border Patrol DAC borderpatrol.net/DAC.htm
Oppo BDP 105 Blu ray player www.oppodigital.com/support/b...
Pass Labs XP30 preamp
Pass Labs HPA 1 preamp/headphone amp www.passlabs.com/products/hpa-1/
Pass Labs XA25 power amp www.passlabs.com/products/xa25/
Pass Labs XA100.5 power amp
First Watt J2 power amp www.firstwatt.com/j2.html
First Watt F7 power amp www.firstwatt.com/f7.html
First Wat F8
First Watt SIT3 power amp www.firstwatt.com/pdf/prod_sit...
Amp Camp Amp Stereo diyaudiostore.com/collections...
Schiit Aegir power amp www.schiit.com/products/aegir
Mytek Brooklyn Amp+ mytekdigital.com/hifi/product...
Decware Zen Triode
Denon PMA600NE integrated amp usa.denon.com/en/shop/amplifi...
Klipsch Cornwall IV speakers • Klipsch Cornwall IV wi...
KEF LS50 speakers
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Q Acoustics 3030i speakers www.qacoustics.com/3030i-book...
Emotiva B1+ speakers emotiva.com/products/airmotiv...
Adam Audio F5 speakers
AudioQuest digital cables www.audioquest.com/cables/dig...
Kimber digital cable www.kimber.com/products/D60
Cardas interconnect cables cardas.com/clear_reflection_ic...
Analysis Plus balanced interconnect cables, analysis.plus/product/silver-...
JPS Labs interconnects jpslabs.com/collections/inter...
Nordost speaker cables nordost.com/leif/red-dawn/red...
AudioQuest power cables www.audioquest.com/ac-power/a... - บันเทิง
I have to agree with your description of F7 I love this amp. Thanks for your videos Steve.
I have an Aleph 3 which I’ve had forever and will have forever. I also built a couple of Amp Camp amps for my second system. I’d love to hear some First Watt gear. Might get around to building one someday. Nelson’s designs are amazing!
Hi Steve, Great video. Yes. I am a big Nelson Pass fan too! I own a Pass Labs XP-20 preamp and use it with a collection of three First Watt amps to drive a pair of Magico A3 tower speakers and a pair of REL T/9i subwoofers. My First Watt collection includes the M2, F5 and SIT-3. I used to own a pair of F4 monoblocks. But I sold those a while ago. I really like all three of my First Watt amps. Like you said they do different things well. I have played the M2 it seems the most. I am just very comfortable with it. I listen to mainly jazz and at reasonable volumes on the Magico A3s with an 88dB sensitivity. I always wondered if I should try the J2 since it is very popular. But I don’t think it has enough power or oomph to drive my Magicos. The amps above all drive them no problem. What would be your thoughts about the J2 in driving these Magico A3 towers? I am also interested if you have had any experience in the F7 as compared to the F5? From what I read in other reviews maybe the F5 is more “accurate” where the F7 may be more warm and less detailed, but more pleasing in other ways? What are your thoughts? Thanks from Chicagoland.
One characteristic of the SIT-3 that isn't always commented on is its performance into different impedance loads. This amp actually gives its best performance into lower loads. Even if you are using 8 ohm speakers, as I do, you may want to experiment with wiring resistors in parallel with the speakers - an inexpensive tweak that may produce good results. In my system, the SIT-3 is a much happier sounding amp (fuller, better bass and body) when I have 8-ohm resistors shunted across the terminals of my 8 ohm speakers, bringing the load the amp sees down to 4 ohms.
I have always wondered what the actual sound differences are between the various First Watt designs, thank you for a nice comparison. I have the J2 and the Aleph 30, and those do sound quite different: the Aleph 30 being more harmonically rich and powerful sounding, the J2 being more neutral and transparent at the cost of less oomph. I do prefer the J2 overall, it seems like the perfect combination of all the right things.
The hype is real! (comment sent before watching the video)
Really interested in these amps, thinking of a Fist Watt + a Harbeth one day (for a really small room)
"Fist Watt" sounds like a small but powerful amplifier, too.
About the size of your fist, but packs a mean punch? ~_^
Thanks Steve great time out a master piece
Hi Steve, I am lucky enough to own the J2, F7, Aleph J, SIT2, SIT3 at the same time(!). My speakers are all home built around full range drivers (I have various... and just interchange them.) in a backloaded horn, sometimes truncated, with bass guitar drivers (small voice coil, very efficient, and cheap!) for better bass definition, with crossovers I make (almost always first order). I listen mostly to classical, standard DG, Philips.... non audiophile, at low volumes 35-60dB. Tone of wooden instruments are my "thing", since multi miked recordings are well.....multi miked. The match depends on the driver. SIT2, SIT3 are similar, but on the Lowther, I like SIT2 best. On the Fostex, it is the J2 and F7. The SITs on Fostex feel slow, heavy. SIT2 needs the most careful matching and tends not to work well with extra long back loaded horns. Overall, I prefer the tone of the J2 to the F7. At low volumes, rich bass bias of SIT2,3 are tops. At higher volumes, the "neutrality" of J2 and F7 come into their own. F7 tends to make the Lowthers piercing. For me, the lesson is that rising response full range drivers go well with SITs (read Lowther), and I crossover the bass lower (say 100Hz). For J2, F7, I cross the bass higher (say 200Hz), with the full ranges running direct in almost all cases. Aleph J feels less special, more "commercial", less nuanced. SEAS and TangBand are relatively less revealing also but I suspect the horn needs to be shorter. (I am always looking out for a F2J) Hope this provides a different perspective from your usual audience.
HI there, I have a 3 way system with a supertweeter horn , a mid horn and 15" woofer. Im around 98db sensitivity. Which Pas amp would you suggest?
I’ve had the chance to listen to the F7 and do a review for it. I had it hooked up to my Klipsch Heresy speakers for the review. I definitely agree with you. It is relaxed. But also has good 3d imaging. The F7 is very engaging. Definitely one of my favorite products I’ve listened to.
Love it. An audiophile "thrillist." Well stated - that auditory moment where you get goosebumps and hairs on end. I'm in!!
Yay! I have a SIT 3 and was wondering about the new F8. Building a F6 right now. Keep up the Nelson Pass content Steve!
For handy people check out diyaudio to build your own Pass amp. Caviar Hifi on a Chicken of the Sea budget
This is actually my favorite video from Audiophilia Channel!!! Firsthand knowledge and collector piece accessible to most people. It is a toss up of a new used F7 or SIT3 for me for Zu Soul Supremes. I am guessing F7 as room is large 20' x 40' and want to run at 80 db at times. Love Border Patrol DAC from few years ago still.
Great episode Steve.!! 👍 🤗
Thanks Steve for reviewing and sharing very good stuff about HIFI.
I agree with you that J2 has very great sound. It sounds excellent when pairing with Klipsch Forte 3 and also Totem Hawk in my systsm.
However it generates "a lot of heat" i thought it turns hot only from heatsinks at left and right of the case. No not only that. The whole case got really hot: top, back, bottom, and front face.
Surprised me only25w classA with that heat that is much more than my expectation.
So, i ended up returing it.
Note: Sound is excellent
To make for more of a comparison of flavours for amps their are the diy f4, f6, f5 and aleph j. Always a treat with a new first watt new release. Even though I can't afford most pass labs stuff, each new first watt release gives us the potential for a new first watt amp released to the diy community. I suspect the next would be the j2 but really want the f7. Steve, perhaps when all this madness has gone away you would consider attending one of the annual burning amp festival for some nice coverage. It would of course give you more interviews from Nelson but also some of the other brilliant folks from the diy audio community like 616 (responsible for all the wonder build guides at diy audio) and many other brilliant volunteers. As linear systems is a sponsor you could also have a nice interview and a future tour. That is something I haven't seen. Thanks!
I think that's a brilliant idea! I love your Nelson Pass content, partly because he's such an interesting guy, but also, as you've said, because you two have chemistry. How cool would it be for you to meet and interview some of the other fantastic folks that keep the DIY spirit alive and kicking? I think that chemistry would be terrific!
Loved the review, so rare to hear 4 different FW amps compared at the same time with similar music. As a XA30.8 owner the question I have always wondered is which of the FW offerings might best compliment the current Pass Labs amps like the .8 series, ie not which FW amp would sound similar but which FW amp would sound the most different while still being in the FW family. Any thoughts as someone has 4 FW and 1 Pass amp in the house at the same time? My guess would be SIT3 for giving a different view of the same music (provided it plays nicely with your speakers).
Steve is great!!!! and my favorite guy next to Zeos!
Steve, you have a new side project like Nelson's FW:-
"SG the THRILLIST"
Thanks for the music review.
I'm checking them out. Dave Brubeck at CH really takes off at track 3, and the tone improves too. You start to hear the bassist better:-)
I’ve been listening to the F7 both with vinyl and a dac as a source. And I agree with you. It has good 3D imaging, relaxed and has good imaging. It definitely is a amp that I very much enjoying listening to. No matter if it was for a review or a causal listening experience.
I really want to hear all reviewers talk about personal preference and what moves them/makes them tick (and attempt to give both objective and subjective take on the gear passing through)!
I liked his comment that he is in this for thrills and chills, that’s spot on IMHO, if it doesn’t make you want to get up and play air guitar it isn’t moving you - emotionally
The XA25 was measured at 80W per channel in the Stereophile review.
It’s always interesting to hear what the latest Firstwatt amp is like. I had the XA25 and F7. Didn’t buy the SIT3 as it is close to the F7. Hmm, the F8 is closer to J2 but more transparent. Seeing the stack of four firstwatt you have there, that’s about 12-13k. Wondering if it is better to get a 12k amp rather than the four of them. I have sold my F7/XA25 after I bought my Gryphon Diablo300. The Gryphon is expensive but I found that it has all the pluses of the F7/XA25 and more power and bass control. Just some thoughts.
Plus the Gryphon is a work of art.
Love my SIT 3 & Tekton DI SE combo!
Please do a review of the First Watt Nutube B1 preamp!
a friend has this preamp and he loves it. Originally he was just using his aleph j but then added the nutube pre and his system came alive
I’m currently evaluating the Kinki Studies EX-M7 power amp vs the First Watt F8. The F8 took 3 months to break-in. It made me doubt for a while, until it came into its own. The M7 has 30 hours on it, and is absolutely getting slayed by the F8 from a detail, realism and tone. The M7 is a great amp, but the F8 is just exceptional with the right speaker and SPL.
Yes, once you've heard the Pass sound you cannot unhear it ( or live without it !). Luckily there are affordable DIY options that you have covered.
Hello Steve. I love your reviews
I have to thank/blame you for my Pass Labs journey to date. Starting with a pair of Amp Camp monos that revealed more than my Cary 120
to the XA25 finally to the INT25. My take? I think the XA25 had the best SQ for my tastes. Why? I would love to know.
As both a Threshold and Pass Labs owner I have followed Nelson Pass designs for many years. He is indeed a unique individual who has a deep passion and intense knowledge of audio amplifier design.
@GeneralCurtis3LeMay What the hell are you talking about? Curtis dismay
@GeneralCurtis3LeMay Again I ask what the hell are you talking about.
As I recall, General Curtis Lemay was a traitor to John F Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis.
He tried to convince the president into starting World War III but Kennedy was a hell of a lot smarter than LeMay. Get off my comments idiot.
@GeneralCurtis3LeMay
Sphere??
@GeneralCurtis3LeMay As a British person, I have to say I do tend to prefer American audio equipment. But why do you tea wasting yanks have to be so impolite and opinionated. You like some amplifiers, other people like others and we all can agree to have different tastes. 🇬🇧 🇺🇸
@GeneralCurtis3LeMay I would agree with you there, but if people like the sound of Nelson’s equipment, and have listened to the alternatives it’s fine by me.
Hi Steve. Great show. Have you reviewed Vincent integrated amps? Wondering what your thoughts would be.
I did many years ago, good stuff.
"Estate" One of those songs that makes you feel cool and sophisticated
*Josie Falbo - Bellissimo!
*Rita Coolidge - (of all people) She sounds better than ever. (and thats saying something)
*Roger Kellaway, Gene Bertoncini & Michael Moore (no, not THAT Michael Moore) The three of them Squeezes the essence out of this track like most bigger bands can't.
*Shelly Berg Trio -
I actually brought this album manyl years ago. Just close your eyes and you're right there. (check-out the subtle percussion work)
*SasKia Bruin - Her diction on this cut makes the man in you come out in a most appealing way (ok Michael Fremer I'm not. That's why you guys get paid the big bucks)
...and so many more great takes on this classic standard.
Oh! The amp's, well that's just Mr Pass doing what he does. It's all good.
Great view and honousty in taste , i agree , i prefer also an impressionist painting on my wall more then a realistic photograph...but with a hasselblad or leica one can make artfull pictures, the same goes for audio , so i go for several systems according to my mood or taste at that moment
Hi Steve if possible can you review the revel concerta 2 f36 floor standing as a dedicated stereo pair.
Keeping it simple- When I had a F7 in my rig, I loved it. I’m a tube guy and felt the F7 had a “tubey” vibe going on- Loved it!
Steve, if you haven't heard the First Watt M2 you'd be doing yourself a favor to seek one out. It's wonderful.
The original vinyl of Brubeck at Carnegie is much less "thin sounding" than the digital version. It has much of the presence of sound that some of the other "best" live Carnegie's have. Listen to Joe Morello's solo on Castilian Drums, perfectly miked.
Totally agree about my goal being I want it to sound good to me. Period. Not concerned about ultimate accuracy, etc. Does it move me, make me want to keep listening and listening and listening, get up off the chair, or close my eyes and soak it all in... And everything matters including the choice of music and source, component matching, the room, cabling. I've had and heard modest systems that absolutely blow me away and some pretty expensive ones that were eh. For the longest time now I've wanted to give a listen to a good tube integrated/klipsch (heresy, forte or cornwall) system and haven't found a dealer where that's possible in the metro NY area. Probably a good thing for my wallet.
After watching TH-cam videos of Dave Brubeck I bought Time Out on vinyl. So. So. Good. 👾🎱🏴 Live at Carnegie hall next then 😉😏🥸 thanks for your work Steve 🏴🎱👾
Hi Steve - thanks. That stack comes to 12k+? This is well into Lumin or Ayre country. Would love to hear your reaction to the Lumin 'The Amp' or maybe the Ayre Ax-5 20. Or how about an LTA Ultralinear for the tubies?
There is a lot of choice in this sector, where the 1st Watt is good value. Greetings to one and All.
Wait, so this hobby is supposed to be fun? Nice video - as always!
Hi Steve I want the F8 and am looking for a pre amp to match it 😉... what do you suggest ? A Pass Labs or should it be a tube pre amp ?
Agree with African Head Charge, great record.
I don't have this album, but I have and love the SACDs of "Drums of Passion" (Columbia) and "Circle of Drums" (Chesky).
I own the J2, SIT2 and a special VFET that Nelson made himself (not the DIY version). All 3 are perfect matches with the Altec Valencia. The SIT2 also mates particularly well with my JWM speakers. These are more than just about Class A design, the magical yet unreliable VFET amps that Sony and Yamaha implemented in the 70's are now a reality in the SIT and VFET line up. If you have never listened to a VFET amp you owe it to yourself, nothing like it.
Not sure if you guys are the same but my wife always asks me what I am listening to and why? And I tell her I’m listening to the sounds and instruments…so here are a few tracks (maybe not in the same class as Dave Brubeck) that will test your kit and bring out the best in your system…as a former South African…Chord-Less Yacht by Chicane; the latest release, Neria by Oliver Mtukudzi & Ladysmith Black Mambazo; and one of the purest recordings I’ve heard, Lighthouse by Reb Fountain from Southern California.
Be interesting to see what the "transconductance" versions (F1, F1J, F2, F2J) sound like. Although it looks like they have been phased out for obvious reasons.
Hello Steve great post, will you be reviewing Fyne Audio f302 or f303, I'm getting some mixed reviews , with a claimed frequency response of 32hz-28000, this suggests a speaker that good with all music types, I listen to most music, so the lower frequency response would be perfect for my reggae and drum and bass, I have yet to find the speaker below $1000 that can do a song by Royksopp called Here She Comes Again any justice in the lower frequencies played in this track, so I'm hoping the F303 will do this, and the medium to higher frequency range to do justice to the palpable experience of my more acoustic listening, on paper it sounds open, lively, wide sound stage, great imagining, and I also question the build quality as it weight is light, the second speaker on my list is Wharfedale diamond's 12.3 which appears alot of speaker for the money but probably doesn't have the transparency which I would like.
Would the f8 be able to drive Graham Audio LS 5/9 ? They are 87db. I normally play between 60 and 80db.
One suggestion: the story about the picture/portet behind Steve if there is a story. I assume there is.
I beg to differ. I think they are beautiful to look at. Albeit understated.
I wish that either the J2 or F7 gets phased out and is available to build in kit form
Just Wait.....
That's all I'll say.....
He has SO many projects just waiting for the DIY community!
Seeing your First Watt stack, obviously he scored a good deal on the aluminum casework;)
He gets them from HiFi2000/Modushop.biz in Italy. They make great gear chassis and good to deal with if in Europe.
Glad that you clarified that you are not a robot. I was unsure that you were real.
Thank you for your review. My living room is not that big. Could you suggest the bookshelf speaker to suit F8?
Graham LS6
I love those Abyss AB-1266 🤤
For the cornwall iv you can recommend both: sit-3 and f8, but you prefer the sit-3, is this correct?
I do prefer SIT3 for its more "colorful" sound, the F8 is less intense.
dear Steve - I was waiting for this - I have just one question: any hissssss with the high sensitive Cornwall IV?
No, the First Watts are quiet! Some hiss, sure, but most tube or solid state amps make some noise, the FW are certain quiet from the listening position.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac thanks - I think this is the challenge with the CW4
Steve how does the F8 GO WITH THE CORNWALL OR THE HERSEY ❔
The imaging comparisons are interesting. Same effect I have, a Thorens belt drive with a Soundsmith Carmen II and a Revox direct drive with a Soundsmith AIDA. The former sounds like the performance is in the room, and the later sounds like it is an LP. And the two are highly related models. Just like your amp descriptions- imaging differences, not freq. response or distortion room measurements.
I have a Harman Kardon PM665VXi. I just love the design of this beast ;). I am considering purchasing the Klipsch RP-600m. Does the combination work well or should I invest in a new amplifier? I have no experience with HiFi so opinions are very much appreciated.
I’m pretty sure you’re good with what you have you’ll be fine with the RP 600
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac thanks for your quick reply. love your work!
i can strongly recommend Tigran Hamasyan if you like strange time signatures.
Thanks for this review Steve. I suspect that a truly “accurate” (ie perfect voltage amp with zero noise, zero output impedance-infinite current) world sound very warm, dynamic and musical.
A perfectly accurate amp doesn’t exist, however.
If you’re into accurate, first watt amps aren’t for you. That’s what Pass labs amps are for.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Thanks Steve. I’m not into accurate, per say, that wasn’t my point. FWIW, I listen to a FW F7 most of the time and I think it’s excellent.
Tough to beat the Pass XA 30.8. IMO best amp value on the market.
I'm curious about preamplifer matching when comes to the First Watt and Pass labs stuff?
Steve uses a Pass Labs preamp.
where can I get that shirt?
I still have an F3 and it synergizes well with a massive full horn system. Have a SIT3 and it does well has a ballzy kick but doesn't have the image placement the F3 has on the big horns. That F3 makes sound so involving you cant do anything but listen.
Which First Watt amp(s) would be a great pairing for Tekton Lore’s? I love loud rock and pop and prefer deep bass. Thanks!
I run an F4 with a high gain tube preamp.
That combo will do just about anything extremely well!
All FW amps pretty much will pair well with rhe Lores given their high sensitivity. Some better than others. You'll need to try some out and decide.
Steve what camera do you use ?
Shabbat Shalom ......great reviews
May I suggest bi amping, SIT3 on bottom, F8 on top - active crossover. Once you hear active done right it's hard to go back, just food for thought Steve.
Hey Scott, I hear what you’re saying, but that would require completely different speakers than the ones I use. And the ones are use have to be relatable to large numbers of people, not just a modified speaker that works with an active crossover.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac As a reviewer you make a great point. And now begins the completely separate path of modifications that is a whole separate kettle of fish onto itself. It came to mind because one of our local guys has a active tube trii-amped Klipschorn setup, defiantly the best Klipschorns I ever heard. All the best Steve.
I have been wondering why Nelson has two different companies to produce his designs. I think I can guess at the answer, but that's not the accurate way toward the truth. I hope you and he cover this topic in the upcoming interview. I would also like to hear *his take* on what he was shooting for in the most popular designs.
A P.S. to my previous comment: Did you do a full review on the Amp Camp Amps?
Yes. There was a comparison with a First Watt and Decware
I can only imagine how much drool worthy gear you have just lounging around your house Steve, you cant possibly have it all hooked up and ready to run at all times. Whats your method? Do you just keep a few select favorites hooked up, are you a one at a time type?
I'm thinking of buying 2 f8 to bi-amp some k horns. Would you do that?
I think that would work.
Pleased to know you are a Brubeck fan. One possible reason the Time Out album sold so well (and still does) is that it contained the hit Take Five, written by Paul Desmond, who played alto sax in the Brubeck quartet.
Know anyone who ever used that J2 for bi-amping; like as tweeter and midrange amp? Class A amps are said to get hot. Is the J2 about the hottest running Class A amp you've used?
My question would be why 2 (leds)
What part of brooklyn do you live in?
The problem is that there are many excellent choices out there in the 4000.00 price range. Then there's tube stuff also. There's almost no way the average person can demo anything in there own environment. so we rely on professionals like Steve to help with his assessments .......
That's the problem at every price point.
Would the F8 work well with an LS 3/5A?
The F8 is my current favorite amplifier to use with the Falcon LS3/5a
@@Cocteau61 Thank you Herb. I wish you could be in more of Steve’s videos. I’ve been reading your comments since Sound Practices magazine.
Hi Steve. What pre-amp did you use? Thanks. I think that’s important :) Thanks for everything.
Steve does not, apparently as a matter of principal, contribute to the comments section.
@@tlhuffman He does. But I'm sure he just needs to listen to one more song first...
He lists 2 Pass Lab pre amps in his sig....
Can anyone recommend a pl/fw for vandersteen 5a?
No First Watt would work, depending on how loud you listen the bigger the Pass Labs amp the better!
What preamps work well with first watt?
Pass Labs, Audio Research, Cary, Schiit
I mostly run a PrimaLuna Dialogue tube preamp with my SIT-3 into a pair of Belle Klipsch speakers with SVS sub. Very enjoyable on jazz, blues, folk rock etc. I also substitute my Mac C33 SS preamp from time to time - this provides EQ options allowing the sub to be rested.
the definition of someone who talks with their hands......errr one hand....not distracting at all
this one will bore you to tears.
1st comment, 6th Like
You need to get the Nelson pass active crossover much better with those speakers then any passive crossover $130 I think, don't understand why you don't get one designed by the Legendary linkwitz. You know Nelson why don't you talk to him about it tell you easily how to set it up. And no they're not DSP you can get a DSP version but these are ASP go for it Steve be surprised what you're missing speakers come to life. And ideally need to minimum 2 or 3 amps driving individual drive you could use the f7 and the f8.
You can sort the power out by putting a bigger transformer like 700va or hire especially in America
Auditioning any of the Nelson Pass amps all lead to dead ends. If only there was a more convenient way to go and hear them in person.
It's hard to justify 4k for a first watt when amps like B1-3 yamaha/N7 Sony and other vintage amps exist.
Even with restoration and they'll drive most speakers and sound amazing.
FET .
And also they'll continue to appreciate in value. I'd recommend Kenwood L series as a starting point even an l-05m. Especially an Lo8m pair with good parts. Ran in full sigma with new caps , maybe some resistors
have you looked at b2's lately? they're getting pretty close to matching price. you may want to grab one if you haven't already.
I am surprised First watt does not have a preamp
Nelson prefers designing power amps. Pass Labs makes preamps.
My recommendation would be to shit fria+
Curious, what makes it worth 4k? Is there something special in the board or an exotic mix of some pretense of any other amp because I can't imagine anything in the world, other than putting his name on it, would make it worth over 600 dollars American.
Just my opinion.
Go to diy where they are trying to reverse engineer it already. If your lucky to follow along and come up with a design that works you can make your own version for less. Your not going to make this or any first watt diy version for much under $1000.
If one just considers component costs, who knows what makes it worth it. However, anyone who owns a company understands there are R&D costs (products that fail cost capital too), intellectual property, employee labor costs, buildings, insurance, utilities, and of course the materials that go into building the product that must be recovered. And yes - a profit - to keep them going to allow the business to continue to invest in more of the same. The rendered value of these investments will be decided by the quantity of those who choose to purchase it.
What makes it worth $4k?
Pass has executed the "straight wire w/gain" amplifiers. The XA25 is a perfect example.
Exploring what 𝙣𝙤𝙩 𝙩𝙤 𝙞𝙣𝙘𝙡𝙪𝙙𝙚, equally as vital to what is included.
Exploring these topologies, Pass shows us the fewest elements in the signal path generally equates to greater bandwidth, preferable sonics. Simple open loop transfer curve assures higher concentration of low order distortions.
Utilizing considerable experience in implementing and 𝘦𝘭𝘪𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 components, all to achieve a particular balance of attributes.
These approaches balance a mixture of/and higher concentration of low order distortions, ie., 2nd, 3rd harmonic, 1rst, 2nd intermod.
He's also implemented balances of distortion characteristics that present the material either forward or less forward relative to soundstage depth.
@@look4fax63 I fully understand R&D along with risk and reward. Quantifying the result is where I get stuck. I have sold Audio for almost 30 years and have been a musician all my life. I see differences in sound but, it is all subjective on what you like and the environment you have it in. That said, nothing can justify that money other than the ability to produce it and relieve yourself of it. It's all still a mystery to me after all these years.
Simple, First Watt is a limited production product with American labor costs and dealer percentage markup. Nelson Pass' research and engineering time to bring F8 to market plus his skill and lifetime knowledge of amplifier design determines what he decides is a reasonable price for a product with his stamp of approval. I own the SIT-3 with the same price as the F8 and have found the SIT-3 amp to bring my music to life and provides hours of pleasure. If one can afford 4K, the price of the F8 or Sit-3 to an audiophile is inconsequential.
Captcha, twice!
A little less conversation an a little more action as the iconic Elvis Presley sung.
Some excerpts of music would been welcomed.
SIT-3 later version had only one LED
😮
If he charges $4000 for the first watt, how much does he charge for the rest?
The biggest difference between Pass Labs and first watt, functionally, is the output impedance.
Guessing Pass Labs are lower impedance?
Hence the difference between in sound!😁
Owning both an XA 30.8 and a First Watt J2 - your observation is ill informed TBH
Would anyone be able to advise if the Schiit Freya+ work with any of the First Watt amplifiers listed in Steve's review video?
No idea...
I have tried a Freya+ with my sit-3. I felt the Freya didn't provide enough gain/dynamics. The volume control was at 2-3 o'clock for normal listening. Fw are low gain designs so they benefit from a high gain preamp like the pass labs preamps. I'm currently using a pass x2.5 pre with 14db gain and it works very well.
@@jasonyang3589 thanks for your very valuable response 👍
I had the freya with both the J2 and SIT3 and at least on the tube stage, there was enough gain, J2 having more obv. But also that was with sensitive speakers - Zu soul supreme. So I would say it "depends" - the room/listener position also matters. I think steve also did a vid on "knob issues"- meaning the position of the volume control doesn't matter really, as long as it is loud enough for you.
@@robertwrightphoto well I guess that's the fun/satisfying but also slightly bothersome issues about our hobby... there are so many different variables to consider.
My SIT-3 has only 1 blue LED
Then it was produced recently, I assume
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac That's correct Steve. I've had it 10 months.
Hi Steve, as a fact, Nelson Pass and his products get covered on your channel more than any other respected designer or company. As a man with so much experience and great knowledge of the audio field, I wish that you will cover more great audio designers and amp companies by giving them the same time and space as Nelson Pass.
Schiit gets lots of coverage here, as does ELAC/Andrew Jones, Klipsch, but sure, I'll try an cover more ground in 2021
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Hi again, keep on the great job you are doing already, and I hope we will see more great talented designers and their products on your channel.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac You also had the owner/designer from Ohm Speakers in an interview.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac I agree with this poster, other brands like Boulder, CH precision, Gryphon, T+A all could be really interesting and elevate the content.
Saul, to be fair, most of these companies come and go. At least with Nelson Pass he’s been around for decades, and he’s to be commended for offering a value product line.
What preamp did you use?
Yes, ...incomplete information here
The gear is listed below the video, I think it’s boring to talk about the same stuff over and over again in Reviews. The preamp was a Pass XP30
I think I might be a robot.
"I smell like plastic." ~ Angel, of The Android Sisters