Honestly I find it depends on the climb. I went from a 29er 150mm full sus to a 29er 150mm forked aggressive hardtail and the only place I miss full suspension is on slow technical climbs.
@@robertcoates2752 yeah, but at technical climbs its more fun on a aggressive hardtail....you can do more stuff like bunnyhops and stuff to come over obstacles. But on descends a fullsus has the nose in front, but ht is still more fun i think.
The rigid MTB is like the new Specialized Diverge gravel bike with flatbars and skinnier tires. And because it's the newest fad, it is way more expensive! :D)))
Gravel bikes frame are light tho, as much as a road bike, and it's gonna get more use in public roads with a little bit of off road capability or rugged city roada like we have here. I don't think someone will buy a gravel bike, drive it to a trail specific private land like most mtb users do and ride it there. It's a good middle ground for road and mt bikes, off road capability but still good with roads with lighter frame. I have mtb myself but uphill roads are just a nightmare
I love my rigid singlespeed. I'm actually a fan of how rigid bikes jump, you don't have to load the suspension at all into the lip of the jump and they're really controllable because they're really light. It is best however to either lower the seat or have a dropper post before you drop into a jump line.
Started out on fully rigid bikes all those years ago and we all loved them. Hell, we had nothing else to compare them to! Then came front suspension and we loved them. Then came full sus and I did not love it. I bought a specialized fsr and it was a heavy dog of a bike that sucked the enjoyment out of 95% of the ride. I got rid of it pretty quickly and went back to hardtails where I have stayed ever since. I am sometimes tempted to see what a modern full susser would be like as I'm sure it would be a huge improvement over the old ones but I can't get away from the fact that the nearly 2 grand I spent on a sorted hardtail would only get me a heavy basic full susser that would ruin my fun like the old specialized did.
Love my full-sus. I think it’s helped me progress as a rider, however I think you need to start on hard tail. Full squish give you the confidence to push harder, but a hard tail gives you the skill. GMBN gave me the confidence to start my own TH-cam channel and one day would love to do a feature with you sir and Blake!
@@bobbyhempel1513 I can tell you that a full suspension gives you a huge confidence and "skill" boost. It gives you enough confidence to do harder things, and the suspension allows for more mistakes
I’m currently in COVID lockdown using my rigid steel gravel bike with 42mm tyres on the local MTB trails, it’s hard works but so much fun! Saving up for my first mountain bike...
@@gaddmeister it's not real mtb skill...its just one of many "skills" that really just limit how far you can take things. Same with dropper posts. "We could get back just fine without dropper posts". Well now we can get back further and easier to focus on more advanced skills.
@Dengi Ingunbamwe 😂😂 I guess we learned the hard way! Less time on the saddle and learn to hover and move around just above it. Many mistakes I've seen these days with full suspension is you stay seated. You need to move around the bike without being seated. Here's a challenge for the older GMBN Chaps to demonstrate??
I have been riding a full rigid 29+ bike and it is awesome on the trail! Some things feel a bit more chattery, but it feels so fast, climbs well, and steers very directly. Tire pressure is important to get right. I was dropping guys on their full suspension bikes on the trails today
I love my hardtail. It's been doing XC, jumps, flow and even proper downhill. Sure it gets rough but honestly, I expected worse. It will be a long time before I really "need" a FS.
Blake used his scout at whistler and sam pilgrim rides hard at Whistler on a full rigid Walmart bike. So I tend to agree, most people don't "need" full sus
@@joshuabrown9398 I'd say yea and no because both riders already have a lot of skills they can use vs throwing a brand new rider on a 100$ walmart bike onto a downhill trail
Absolutely true! Last year started to ride really technical descents faster than before on my hardtail and the feeling of awareness is really high, not always fun but the feeling of negociating hard trails is very powerful (specially when Enduro walkers cof cof I mean riders are watching). One month on full sus and is funnier and always have the feeling that can descent faster, and without the "uff almost die there" Actually don't want to ride my hardtail anymore, little scared of having second thoughts.
I'm actually building a fully rigid Cotic Soul 26" with parts I ordered a few years ago! DT Swiss rigid carbon XC fork, Spank rims, 2.4" tires and 11 spd XT all around pretty much. Looking forward to giving it a test ride some time this weekend. I might put a suspension fork on it in the future if I can find a nice 26" fork for a good price, but for now I'll enjoy the feel of trail, roots and stone under my wheels. :-P
My bike is a 26 inch wheels , with a 1x10 gears , and my fork is a Kona p2 (for 29 inch wheel). Big tire on the front . Because this fork have the same lengh than a 100mm travel fork. Like was build my bike When it was brand new For other old shool ridig frame, it s realy a problem to found good rigid fork...
I know this will sound counterintuitive, but I love my hardtail. Reason being is that the older I get, the slower and less daring I ride off road. I have owned numerous full suspension bikes and just recently purchased a 27.5 Plus Hardtail, and it's all the cush I need for my style of riding. I ride with this Mantra: Dirty Harry's quite "A man's got to know his Limitations" and I know mine
Have to admit that you guys at GMBN praised the capabilities of full suspension mountain bike and how much fun they are, you convinced even me to get one. And I love it to the very bits. I have to agree with Neil, the full suspension is super fun.
I think this test proves that 1.) the hardtail is golden middle: affordable, low maintenance, good for bikepacking, comfy ride with a good fork and not much slower than the fully. 2.) The totally rigid is hard on the hands, slow, bumpy and erratic on roots and burps. And the carbon fork is not much cheaper than a good middle class suspension fork. First rigid gravel bikes appear with a flat bar now. 3.) Gravel bikes figured out that suspension is good! They start implementing some carbon flex suspension and now add some basic forks with 30mm. I guess they will end up as mid-90's hardtails with a drop bar and some 50-60mm fork. :D))))
I ride a Surly Krampus 29x3.0. I love it and don’t see myself ever going back. I also find that it forces you to find the most perfect line choice while riding rigid which ultimately makes you a better rider in my opinion.
Thank You. I have been commenting and asking for a video like this for a while, you have created a comparison where literally the only variable is the suspension, and you have like-like purpose. For a non-scientific sponsored TH-cam video I think this was good. I'm going to keep my hardtail and not worry about what I _may_ be losing on climbs due to slightly decreased traction because in re time to ascend it's within margin of error.
I have the 2020 Oiz but with the 120mm suspension package. Yes it feels like it munches through trails quite nice. Of course, not like a 130mm+ suspension bike, but still feels great, and it can eat miles.
Really loving my short travel full sus right now, but every so often I hop on my hard tail to remind myself how to properly ride trails. Every bike is fun if you’ve got the right mind set!
Got the oiz m30 10 days ago (120mm) and magic carpet is actually the right expression. I just got farther, faster and with more fun. The brand new omx carbon frame must be fantastic particularly in the fancy version you've got from orbea all xtr :)
Rode freestyle BMX for 10 years back in the day. It teaches you so much on how to use your body as a shock absorber. Now I ride an Orange P7 29er Hardtail. Love it, I'll never to go full sissy 😘
Would have liked the hardtail to have a dropper post like the full sus for a fairer comparison. On downhill I personally find that being able to move the saddle out of the way to be more important for confidence and control than suspension out back, and that is where the hardtail lost out most time!
If you compare suspension, having or not having a dropper post should not be a variable. I would argue that the increase in descend speed on the full sus is more up to the dropper than the suspension. I understand that you got bikes from Orbea for this though.
I have actually increased my fork pressure to only let the fork go through half its travel .Its been very helpful on the drops and the steep keeping my head tube at a better angle to keep me from going over the bars as my seat tube an gle being at 69 already puts me at a disadvantage on drops and steep sections so using less travel is helpful with that . I still get the small bump reduction so its kind of like somewhere between a hard tail and a rigid bike . Riding a hardtail is a complete different riding experience over full suspension and very difficult for a person to go from full squish to hardtail or rigid . A hardtail is all I ride so I know what speed to use on the conditions . To fast over rocks or slow can put you at a disadvantage so you have to understand vibration of the conditions you are riding
Absolutely. The lack of a dropper is the reason for the HT being so much slower on the downhill. You've got to work harder AND there's a saddle in your way...
My first and second mtb's were fully rigid, u get used to it I recall, but suspension was rare then...old! Did add suspension forks to bike 2...still got it 24 years later as a road/gravel bike
Having gone from a Niner WFO9 150mm travel full sus to a Ragley Big Wig, I pretty much never miss full suspension except on slow technical climbs. With a hardtail it is much easier hang up the rear wheel and lose all your momentum. If I was serious about racing, I'd get a full sus but I just ride for fun and I find an aggressive hardtail to be the most fun especially going down.
I've only ever ridden my old rigid on XC type trails, bridleways and natural! Love Blake and Neil's videos where they cycle camp/tour together! Thought I would keep it up until I ran the discs in on my wife's hardtail, on a particular route. I was 3mph quicker at max and 2 mins faster on her bike, even with gentle braking! Pre Covid, was going to get some lessons at my local trail centre, but that'll have to wait - hope my knees can wait too!
Literally been riding mtb's since 1988. Pre-suspension days. I grew up on hardtails, but went to full suspensions in the early 2000's. Man, have I seen some changes. Anyways, at 49, I'm back on a hardtail. I came to the conclusion it really depends on where and how you ride. While I enjoyed my days on my full suspensions I finally figured out (after 30 yrs) a dialed in, 120 mm of travel is all I need. That... and the right tire pressure.
As some one who owns all three types of bike and enjoy all of the there is a sadistic pleasure about a rigid bike (mines single speed to) on old school xc rides they just keep you on your toes keep you awake and make easy tracks fun again
I love my rigid 29'er. Where I ride, mostly XCM, it's not difficult terrain, with very little technical elements, so it's more than enough. Such fun, as you have to think different about line choice, and the feeling of lightweight front end is amazing. With carbon handlebar, thick ESI Extra Chunky like grips and large front tyre it's surprisingly comfortable. Although since I dislocated my shoulder recently I don't think I will be riding it much in future :(
I am currently an u17 rider in xc races. A couple years back I raced a fully rigid bike that came in at 7.2kg without pedals. I loved it. But as I got older and courses became more technical I did end up switching to a fox 32. However if you race xc with a suspension fork, buy a lockout.
Once I read in a bike magazine a citation from K. Bontrager. Basically, he stated something similar to: "if you are a pro you need to ride fast the fastest bikes while if you are not (therefore if you are a bike amateur/enthusiast) you may ride whatever suits you" . I guess that this sentence illustrates well what we think we would find more fun! If we are not running for the chrono, or enduro or DH, for the sunday morning XC ride, a very light (modern of course) rigid bike could be really fun :-)
I love my full suspension bike. I rode my son's hard tail and could definitely out climb my bike, but I love my supple suspension and the more comfortable ride. Those bikes look great, the styling is sick.
I've got a GT avalanche 2017 hardtail. It's took a hammering and returned the beating on many occasions. Wouldn't change it for the world. My opinion, hardtails require more skill, therefore are more fun when mastered.
I'd love too see a titanium hardtail compared to a full suspension bike. Titanium frames give you a much smoother ride and unless you're doing serious downhill, it's the best choice, in my opinion of course. When I switched from aluminium to titanium it felt like the new bike had a bit of suspension. That's how much smoother it is. I can only imagine how much stiff a ride on a carbon hardtail must be
I am already building a rigid "gravel" MTB. Rigid MTB parts are just cheaper than rigid gravel RB parts. Plus when the going gets rough, the longer 680mm flat bar comes in handy compared to the drop bars of a gravel RB. If i want to get aero with it, i'd just slap on some aero bars but i don't go that fast on roads anyway so maybe no. And if i wanna convert to XC i'll just put a suspension fork on it. If the gravel tires are not enough then maybe some XC tires would do.
The full sus can hardly be compared on times with a dropper really. GMBN have multiple times called out the dropper post as an absolute game changer which it is moreso on a hardtail descending than anything.
I've had all 3 options in the past and to me hardtail is a nice balance for fun. I'm more at home on rough and rocky natural trails in baggy shorts, though, not one for lycra. Full suss is nice to have and I won't give up mine, but hardtails just involve you more in the ride. The rigid option... well I admit it has been a while for me, my rigid had quite skinny tyres that wouldn't be available today, but they were wide for the time. It might be that I'd enjoy a rigid bike on some trails with modern tyre sizes, but I think the hardtail is probably the sweet spot until things get properly scary. Most people are massively over biked these days, and I've been feeling the need to pare back my own bikes, too.
Too many numbers, in my opinion, for determining a bikes fun factor. It’s about what makes you smile. Not which one is the fastest, lightest, or has the most tech. That’s not to say that being the fastest person on the trail isn’t going to put a smile on your face. Myself, I have a Surly Krampus setup single speed/rigid and it’s the most fun I have ever had on a bike.
Currently my go to bike is a custom waltly ti singlespeed 29er with a lauf fork. This fork takes a slight edge off the bumps, while maintaining very efficient pedaling. For big mountain rocky riding I have a carver ti SS with 2.6 tires and a fox 34 sc factory. I've got 2 full sqiush orbeas (oiz and occam TR) and both are currently being borrowed by friends. I haven't ridden gears in over 6 months and i don't miss it. #SSOD
If you've got into MTBs in the last 20 years you might not know how to ride full rigid properly. Why would you? It takes a lot of effort to learn and doesn't initially 'feel as nice'. The lines are very different- with rooty stuff like this forest, you have to steer round virtually everything, and the way you can use the lumps and bumps to fire you onward a bit is something that would be alien to those who learnt to ride on FS. But the steering is so direct it's a fun thing to master. I ride full rigid and HT. Still on 26 inch. Have had brief ownership with FS, but I enjoy climbs and responsiveness so had to get rid of it. The crux of this video is: man who rides FS bikes rides full rigid the same way he rides a FS bike and hates it. I enjoy riding my 28 year old full rigid faster downhill than a few people on modern FS bikes ( not everyone, there's a few very fast full suspension riders out there, but there's also lots of very, very slow ones). So much so I'm entering an enduro with it next month. My first MTB race for 30 years. I'm clearly not expecting to win or even place well, but beating maybe a few people down the hill on their 5 grand FS bikes will be deeply satisfying. With a full rigid downhill you soon learn that touching the brakes turns everything to sh---t, so you do it as little as possible and in select places! This can get you down quite quickly if you don't crash. Full suspension allows you to be all over the brakes harder and in more places, which is why so many people with such capable and expensive bikes are so slow on them! There's also the variables and complexities of setting up front and rear suspension, along with tyre pressures treads and compounds. So technically there's a lot of major speed sapping mistakes people can make with a FS bike before they ever get onto the trail. The only modern MTB development I think would be worth me trying is a 29er, for the better rollover and because I'm tall, maybe with suspension forks (with a lockout) and a dropper post, and slightly bigger tyres than we used to run. But that's as far as I'd want to go.
Has GMBN ever did a video comparing the standalone Garmin Vs an App? What do they offer that an app doesn't? I'm of the opinion on saving a few hundred quid and use your phone, which very likely has a much clearer and brighter display. Feel free to change my mind.
There are a few problems, like the lack reliable mounts for phones unless you have an iPhone or Samsung, sun burning your display and much shorter battery life, phone screens are not designed to be on constantly. But it's definitely possible!
Battery life (and if you need to make a phone call in an emergency you’ve not run your battery out), more compact, cheaper than a phone, more water resistant.
Garmin uses not only GPS but also Glonass satellites, which makes altitude measurements much more accurate. Also, I'd don't feel comfortable strapping my phone to my handlebars. For a road bike it's fine, but on a mtb? No thanks
Honestly I ride full suspension only because of the terrain I’m riding hardtails are super fun how you feel in contact more with the trail I’ve never ridden mtb with a rigid tho
Glad to see rigid work so well. After some easy trail into a root covered climb, it felt like my soul was crushed on a rigid. Just means I have to keep at it.
Argh man was you guys there this weekend just gone 😲😲 Was there all weekend sending it on my Hardcore Hardtail was a mega good laugh went hamming it down Sheepskull on the hardtail and was laughing all the way down even having a big crash it was such a laugh love hardtail 🤘🤘
In defence of the rigid it was always going to come last in this test, but I have a carbon fibre, flat bar gravel bike which I love riding. For loops from home on bridleways and country lanes it is the perfect tool and it is fun to ride. You just have to be much more careful with line choice!
A Ridgid a so much fun because it's way more challenging and puts your skills to the test, I'm surprised Niel hated it. Granted it wouldn't be my only bike!
I ride rigid right now because of the technical challenge it offers me as a rider, but yeah having suspension is nice and fast but the bikes especially the fs ones are getting more and more like motorcycles, with the long wheels base and long frames which make riders a bit lazy and too comfortable. I like new tech and stuff but the prices are getting to extreme and in the end it is the rider that limits the performance. Super nice content, that is for sure and I have to say that Oreba bikes today look very sublime.
I have rigid steel Surly Karate Monkey I bought use. I think for me rigid works best with 27.5x2.8 and larger or 29x2.6 and larger. I tried 2.5 with my KM once & while it was a bit lighter, it wasn't as fun. I like how I can plow with plus tires.
Ive just built a fully ridgid XC bike currently using it for city riding (semi slick mtb City tyres) but now thinking i could use it for some compact gravel
hardtails are more fun to do jumps with or more fun on flow trail but for trails with drops obviously I'd rather have something to soften my fall at the back
For xc id take a hardtail all day. As long as its up to my spec. Fork for my wieght. A good set of tires . Good bars with a good bend that i like. And thats all i need.
I have a fully rigid fatbike, and I am 3 minutes faster on the trail I ride that on than my full suspension bike, but there aren't any descents. I occasionally ride my son"s hardtail bike and it is really fun too.
I think it would have made more sense to start with the full suspension, then the hardtail and end with the fully rigid. After 3 laps, you know the best lines, so you have the advantage there. Seems the full suspension had the best of both worlds, previous experience and softest ride.
i think this vid is great for experienced riders. would you modify your comparison for beginner n learning how to ride? i think, like golf, it depends more on skill, not cost or tech. could your recommend best way to learn fundamentals of riding that doesnt depend on cost/quality of parts?
How come that this Alma with 830g frame, xtr and carbon everything weights 9.2kg with the rigid fork, so about 10.1 with the suspension? Something's not quite right there. My XL Procaliber which frame is TWICE as heavy and on alloy wheels weighs 10.18kg with suspension :o
What do you think you would find more fun? Rigid, Hardtail or Full Suspension? Let us know 👇
Full!
Can you do a video on how capable a rigid bike is
Hardtail
Hardcore hardtail all the way + get a dropper post on that be even better
Depends on what I want to do with it!
Big downside of riding a hardtail is having to wait for 10 minutes at the top of every climb for your full sus friends
The best comment I have seen so far!
😂😂😂😂😂
Honestly I find it depends on the climb. I went from a 29er 150mm full sus to a 29er 150mm forked aggressive hardtail and the only place I miss full suspension is on slow technical climbs.
@@robertcoates2752 yeah, but at technical climbs its more fun on a aggressive hardtail....you can do more stuff like bunnyhops and stuff to come over obstacles. But on descends a fullsus has the nose in front, but ht is still more fun i think.
Genius XDDD
The rigid one is exactly how gravel bikes be like in 2 years 😂 love the look of it though
So pretty much my salsa Fargo haha
Haha agreed. I'm currently building up a Ridgid 29. Nice to be ahead of the trends for once!
The rigid MTB is like the new Specialized Diverge gravel bike with flatbars and skinnier tires. And because it's the newest fad, it is way more expensive! :D)))
Two years? That's how my gravel bike is NOW 🤣
Only thing is I have super wide drop bars
Gravel bikes frame are light tho, as much as a road bike, and it's gonna get more use in public roads with a little bit of off road capability or rugged city roada like we have here.
I don't think someone will buy a gravel bike, drive it to a trail specific private land like most mtb users do and ride it there.
It's a good middle ground for road and mt bikes, off road capability but still good with roads with lighter frame.
I have mtb myself but uphill roads are just a nightmare
I love my hard tail I have been riding it for 4 years now and they are so fun.
I've killed my hardtail whilst riding it, anyone else done the same?
Ryan Cook I Murdered my trek I’m scared to ride it I think it might crack
A good hardtail is fun... I’ve got an entry level hardtail and I have outridden it enough to have to practically have the fork rebuilt
You left out the most fun option: fully rigid SingleSpeed
Fixie
Joshua Brown - lunatic! 😉
For _even_ more fun, weld the fork to the frame...
A bmx?
Totally. A fat BMX!
I love my rigid singlespeed. I'm actually a fan of how rigid bikes jump, you don't have to load the suspension at all into the lip of the jump and they're really controllable because they're really light. It is best however to either lower the seat or have a dropper post before you drop into a jump line.
If they are built well there is little slop sound which is nice too.
Im also running single speed xc bike. So much fun to ride. Simple and fun.
Started out on fully rigid bikes all those years ago and we all loved them. Hell, we had nothing else to compare them to! Then came front suspension and we loved them. Then came full sus and I did not love it. I bought a specialized fsr and it was a heavy dog of a bike that sucked the enjoyment out of 95% of the ride. I got rid of it pretty quickly and went back to hardtails where I have stayed ever since. I am sometimes tempted to see what a modern full susser would be like as I'm sure it would be a huge improvement over the old ones but I can't get away from the fact that the nearly 2 grand I spent on a sorted hardtail would only get me a heavy basic full susser that would ruin my fun like the old specialized did.
Watching this after watching some of Neil's slams through the years and dude mad respect for you and your skill. Hardtail xc beginner here.
Love my full-sus. I think it’s helped me progress as a rider, however I think you need to start on hard tail. Full squish give you the confidence to push harder, but a hard tail gives you the skill. GMBN gave me the confidence to start my own TH-cam channel and one day would love to do a feature with you sir and Blake!
Exactly
Progressing my skills is what gives me confidence; the machine I'm on has nothing to do with it as it can only do what I tell it to.
@@bobbyhempel1513 I can tell you that a full suspension gives you a huge confidence and "skill" boost. It gives you enough confidence to do harder things, and the suspension allows for more mistakes
@@ODZZplays True, but if you can get the technique with the hardtail, a full sus will just smooth it out and make it more fun.
@@xx-----------xx873 yeah that's what I mean
I admire people who can ride a rigid,
It looks so hard to stay on the ground
It's not! It's real mountain bike skills. It's all we had in the early 90's and perfect to learn on to learn real skills and balance.
I’m currently in COVID lockdown using my rigid steel gravel bike with 42mm tyres on the local MTB trails, it’s hard works but so much fun! Saving up for my first mountain bike...
@@gaddmeister it's not real mtb skill...its just one of many "skills" that really just limit how far you can take things. Same with dropper posts. "We could get back just fine without dropper posts". Well now we can get back further and easier to focus on more advanced skills.
@@manningthomson7918 Same here! Rigid steel, 42mm WTB resolutes, and I think it is super fun! Even feels pretty good riding the drops sometimes ha!
@Dengi Ingunbamwe 😂😂 I guess we learned the hard way! Less time on the saddle and learn to hover and move around just above it. Many mistakes I've seen these days with full suspension is you stay seated. You need to move around the bike without being seated. Here's a challenge for the older GMBN Chaps to demonstrate??
I have been riding a full rigid 29+ bike and it is awesome on the trail! Some things feel a bit more chattery, but it feels so fast, climbs well, and steers very directly. Tire pressure is important to get right. I was dropping guys on their full suspension bikes on the trails today
I love my hardtail. It's been doing XC, jumps, flow and even proper downhill. Sure it gets rough but honestly, I expected worse. It will be a long time before I really "need" a FS.
Blake used his scout at whistler and sam pilgrim rides hard at Whistler on a full rigid Walmart bike.
So I tend to agree, most people don't "need" full sus
@@joshuabrown9398 I'd say yea and no because both riders already have a lot of skills they can use vs throwing a brand new rider on a 100$ walmart bike onto a downhill trail
Love getting technical on the trails with a hard tail. HT's make you aware of every stone in the path.
Absolutely true!
Last year started to ride really technical descents faster than before on my hardtail and the feeling of awareness is really high, not always fun but the feeling of negociating hard trails is very powerful (specially when Enduro walkers cof cof I mean riders are watching).
One month on full sus and is funnier and always have the feeling that can descent faster, and without the "uff almost die there"
Actually don't want to ride my hardtail anymore, little scared of having second thoughts.
I'm actually building a fully rigid Cotic Soul 26" with parts I ordered a few years ago! DT Swiss rigid carbon XC fork, Spank rims, 2.4" tires and 11 spd XT all around pretty much. Looking forward to giving it a test ride some time this weekend. I might put a suspension fork on it in the future if I can find a nice 26" fork for a good price, but for now I'll enjoy the feel of trail, roots and stone under my wheels. :-P
Have fun!
26" wont be nearly as comfortable in terain. Rigid fork makes sence for big wheels which rolls better over obstacles.
My bike is a 26 inch wheels , with a 1x10 gears , and my fork is a Kona p2 (for 29 inch wheel).
Big tire on the front .
Because this fork have the same lengh than a 100mm travel fork. Like was build my bike When it was brand new
For other old shool ridig frame, it s realy a problem to found good rigid fork...
I know this will sound counterintuitive, but I love my hardtail. Reason being is that the older I get, the slower and less daring I ride off road. I have owned numerous full suspension bikes and just recently purchased a 27.5 Plus Hardtail, and it's all the cush I need for my style of riding. I ride with this Mantra: Dirty Harry's quite "A man's got to know his Limitations" and I know mine
The gold stickers make the frame look dirty from afar
I think it probably looks better in person
That's all I looked at
Lol I was wondering why they hadn't washed it and didn't even realise they were stickers until i read this
Have to admit that you guys at GMBN praised the capabilities of full suspension mountain bike and how much fun they are, you convinced even me to get one. And I love it to the very bits. I have to agree with Neil, the full suspension is super fun.
I think this test proves that
1.) the hardtail is golden middle: affordable, low maintenance, good for bikepacking, comfy ride with a good fork and not much slower than the fully.
2.) The totally rigid is hard on the hands, slow, bumpy and erratic on roots and burps. And the carbon fork is not much cheaper than a good middle class suspension fork. First rigid gravel bikes appear with a flat bar now.
3.) Gravel bikes figured out that suspension is good! They start implementing some carbon flex suspension and now add some basic forks with 30mm. I guess they will end up as mid-90's hardtails with a drop bar and some 50-60mm fork.
:D))))
You're right, gravel bikes are turning into mid '90s XC hardtails. Some folks were fitting drop bars on their xc bikes back then too.
I ride a Surly Krampus 29x3.0. I love it and don’t see myself ever going back. I also find that it forces you to find the most perfect line choice while riding rigid which ultimately makes you a better rider in my opinion.
Thank You. I have been commenting and asking for a video like this for a while, you have created a comparison where literally the only variable is the suspension, and you have like-like purpose. For a non-scientific sponsored TH-cam video I think this was good. I'm going to keep my hardtail and not worry about what I _may_ be losing on climbs due to slightly decreased traction because in re time to ascend it's within margin of error.
Glad it was helpful!
I have the 2020 Oiz but with the 120mm suspension package. Yes it feels like it munches through trails quite nice. Of course, not like a 130mm+ suspension bike, but still feels great, and it can eat miles.
Really loving my short travel full sus right now, but every so often I hop on my hard tail to remind myself how to properly ride trails. Every bike is fun if you’ve got the right mind set!
Got the oiz m30 10 days ago (120mm) and magic carpet is actually the right expression. I just got farther, faster and with more fun. The brand new omx carbon frame must be fantastic particularly in the fancy version you've got from orbea all xtr :)
Rode freestyle BMX for 10 years back in the day. It teaches you so much on how to use your body as a shock absorber. Now I ride an Orange P7 29er Hardtail. Love it, I'll never to go full sissy 😘
Yay finally talking about rigid XC. Just run a lower preasure on front you gona really feel how the tire is working as a suspension.
Absolutely love Orbea bikes. I’m over the moon with my Occam H20!
I also have the occam H20 and I love it 😍
Another brilliant video and evaluation. I miss you doing these riding videos. Love the 2021 XC Orbeo's as well!
I love the way Neil says dropper post
“…In fact, it was a relief to be in the air” 😂
Would have liked the hardtail to have a dropper post like the full sus for a fairer comparison. On downhill I personally find that being able to move the saddle out of the way to be more important for confidence and control than suspension out back, and that is where the hardtail lost out most time!
If you compare suspension, having or not having a dropper post should not be a variable. I would argue that the increase in descend speed on the full sus is more up to the dropper than the suspension. I understand that you got bikes from Orbea for this though.
I have actually increased my fork pressure to only let the fork go through half its travel .Its been very helpful on the drops and the steep keeping my head tube at a better angle to keep me from going over the bars as my seat tube an gle being at 69 already puts me at a disadvantage on drops and steep sections so using less travel is helpful with that . I still get the small bump reduction so its kind of like somewhere between a hard tail and a rigid bike . Riding a hardtail is a complete different riding experience over full suspension and very difficult for a person to go from full squish to hardtail or rigid . A hardtail is all I ride so I know what speed to use on the conditions . To fast over rocks or slow can put you at a disadvantage so you have to understand vibration of the conditions you are riding
I wonder if having a dropper on the ht/rigid bikes would’ve made a difference in the final result
It would’ve, for sure
Absolutely. The lack of a dropper is the reason for the HT being so much slower on the downhill. You've got to work harder AND there's a saddle in your way...
Surely that'd be something you would buy immediately if you bought a new HT that didn't come with one?
@@mrbadger9920 i have a dropper on my xc hardtail and yes 100% its a charm on flowi/not gnarly trails
My first and second mtb's were fully rigid, u get used to it I recall, but suspension was rare then...old!
Did add suspension forks to bike 2...still got it 24 years later as a road/gravel bike
Pretty cool that white, black and gold is back in fashion. Makes my retro Raleigh look cool.
Having gone from a Niner WFO9 150mm travel full sus to a Ragley Big Wig, I pretty much never miss full suspension except on slow technical climbs. With a hardtail it is much easier hang up the rear wheel and lose all your momentum. If I was serious about racing, I'd get a full sus but I just ride for fun and I find an aggressive hardtail to be the most fun especially going down.
I use Both Rigid and Hardtail. Different ride and feel, but love Both.
Rigid sounds fun
It's amazing how there are so many different types of bikes these days! Really something for everyone now 👍
Can I use a bmx as a ridged bike?
@@Nitrodozer 50 50 because bmx geometry is not the same as mountain bikes but for street riding bmx is better th-cam.com/video/HUNnohY0WRM/w-d-xo.html
I've only ever ridden my old rigid on XC type trails, bridleways and natural! Love Blake and Neil's videos where they cycle camp/tour together! Thought I would keep it up until I ran the discs in on my wife's hardtail, on a particular route. I was 3mph quicker at max and 2 mins faster on her bike, even with gentle braking! Pre Covid, was going to get some lessons at my local trail centre, but that'll have to wait - hope my knees can wait too!
Literally been riding mtb's since 1988. Pre-suspension days. I grew up on hardtails, but went to full suspensions in the early 2000's. Man, have I seen some changes. Anyways, at 49, I'm back on a hardtail. I came to the conclusion it really depends on where and how you ride. While I enjoyed my days on my full suspensions I finally figured out (after 30 yrs) a dialed in, 120 mm of travel is all I need. That... and the right tire pressure.
As some one who owns all three types of bike and enjoy all of the there is a sadistic pleasure about a rigid bike (mines single speed to) on old school xc rides they just keep you on your toes keep you awake and make easy tracks fun again
Really good video! Part of what made it that enjoyable for me was that I felt like Neil really liked doing it!
I love my rigid 29'er. Where I ride, mostly XCM, it's not difficult terrain, with very little technical elements, so it's more than enough. Such fun, as you have to think different about line choice, and the feeling of lightweight front end is amazing. With carbon handlebar, thick ESI Extra Chunky like grips and large front tyre it's surprisingly comfortable. Although since I dislocated my shoulder recently I don't think I will be riding it much in future :(
I am currently an u17 rider in xc races. A couple years back I raced a fully rigid bike that came in at 7.2kg without pedals. I loved it. But as I got older and courses became more technical I did end up switching to a fox 32. However if you race xc with a suspension fork, buy a lockout.
Once I read in a bike magazine a citation from K. Bontrager. Basically, he stated something similar to: "if you are a pro you need to ride fast the fastest bikes while if you are not (therefore if you are a bike amateur/enthusiast) you may ride whatever suits you" . I guess that this sentence illustrates well what we think we would find more fun! If we are not running for the chrono, or enduro or DH, for the sunday morning XC ride, a very light (modern of course) rigid bike could be really fun :-)
I love my full suspension bike. I rode my son's hard tail and could definitely out climb my bike, but I love my supple suspension and the more comfortable ride. Those bikes look great, the styling is sick.
Because of your channel randomly showing up on my TH-cam. I just bought a Trek marlin 5 to start with👍
Great seeing how a pro feels on a hardtail vs rigid vs full suspension! I'll move from HT to FS once I get more skills n money
I've got a GT avalanche 2017 hardtail. It's took a hammering and returned the beating on many occasions. Wouldn't change it for the world. My opinion, hardtails require more skill, therefore are more fun when mastered.
The videography in this video stands out!
Hardtails will always be the most fun and the most versatile no matter what.
Full sus with a lockout is more versatile for sure
I think with an aggressive hard tail 140mm travel you can basically to anything
@@georgegande1779 yes, I take mine to jump parks all the time too and it holds up great.
I'd love too see a titanium hardtail compared to a full suspension bike. Titanium frames give you a much smoother ride and unless you're doing serious downhill, it's the best choice, in my opinion of course.
When I switched from aluminium to titanium it felt like the new bike had a bit of suspension. That's how much smoother it is. I can only imagine how much stiff a ride on a carbon hardtail must be
I am already building a rigid "gravel" MTB. Rigid MTB parts are just cheaper than rigid gravel RB parts.
Plus when the going gets rough, the longer 680mm flat bar comes in handy compared to the drop bars of a gravel RB. If i want to get aero with it, i'd just slap on some aero bars but i don't go that fast on roads anyway so maybe no.
And if i wanna convert to XC i'll just put a suspension fork on it. If the gravel tires are not enough then maybe some XC tires would do.
The full sus can hardly be compared on times with a dropper really. GMBN have multiple times called out the dropper post as an absolute game changer which it is moreso on a hardtail descending than anything.
I've had all 3 options in the past and to me hardtail is a nice balance for fun. I'm more at home on rough and rocky natural trails in baggy shorts, though, not one for lycra. Full suss is nice to have and I won't give up mine, but hardtails just involve you more in the ride. The rigid option... well I admit it has been a while for me, my rigid had quite skinny tyres that wouldn't be available today, but they were wide for the time. It might be that I'd enjoy a rigid bike on some trails with modern tyre sizes, but I think the hardtail is probably the sweet spot until things get properly scary. Most people are massively over biked these days, and I've been feeling the need to pare back my own bikes, too.
Too many numbers, in my opinion, for determining a bikes fun factor. It’s about what makes you smile. Not which one is the fastest, lightest, or has the most tech. That’s not to say that being the fastest person on the trail isn’t going to put a smile on your face. Myself, I have a Surly Krampus setup single speed/rigid and it’s the most fun I have ever had on a bike.
Currently my go to bike is a custom waltly ti singlespeed 29er with a lauf fork. This fork takes a slight edge off the bumps, while maintaining very efficient pedaling. For big mountain rocky riding I have a carver ti SS with 2.6 tires and a fox 34 sc factory. I've got 2 full sqiush orbeas (oiz and occam TR) and both are currently being borrowed by friends. I haven't ridden gears in over 6 months and i don't miss it. #SSOD
I used to love riding a rigid, but a suspension fork just adds a bit of spring in the front end to bunnyhop or reposition the front wheel.
You’ve got the new bike sick🤟🤘🤙👌
The fully rigid bike looks soo good
Who else didn’t know they still made rigid bikes on purpose
yh, road bikes are almost extinct
@@bookingit3841 I disagree. Road bikes will be here to stay.
@@istillhavetenfingers8150 Ofcourse they will stay, theres no reason for them to get a suspension since road biking is all about efficiency
I have one
I ride 200 or more day a year, maybe one or two would be faster on a Rigid (or gravel) but not funnier.
those paint jobs are amazing
Was thinking about fully rigid recently, after watching this I think I’ll stick to front suspension
If you've got into MTBs in the last 20 years you might not know how to ride full rigid properly. Why would you? It takes a lot of effort to learn and doesn't initially 'feel as nice'. The lines are very different- with rooty stuff like this forest, you have to steer round virtually everything, and the way you can use the lumps and bumps to fire you onward a bit is something that would be alien to those who learnt to ride on FS. But the steering is so direct it's a fun thing to master. I ride full rigid and HT. Still on 26 inch. Have had brief ownership with FS, but I enjoy climbs and responsiveness so had to get rid of it.
The crux of this video is: man who rides FS bikes rides full rigid the same way he rides a FS bike and hates it.
I enjoy riding my 28 year old full rigid faster downhill than a few people on modern FS bikes ( not everyone, there's a few very fast full suspension riders out there, but there's also lots of very, very slow ones). So much so I'm entering an enduro with it next month. My first MTB race for 30 years. I'm clearly not expecting to win or even place well, but beating maybe a few people down the hill on their 5 grand FS bikes will be deeply satisfying.
With a full rigid downhill you soon learn that touching the brakes turns everything to sh---t, so you do it as little as possible and in select places! This can get you down quite quickly if you don't crash. Full suspension allows you to be all over the brakes harder and in more places, which is why so many people with such capable and expensive bikes are so slow on them! There's also the variables and complexities of setting up front and rear suspension, along with tyre pressures treads and compounds. So technically there's a lot of major speed sapping mistakes people can make with a FS bike before they ever get onto the trail.
The only modern MTB development I think would be worth me trying is a 29er, for the better rollover and because I'm tall, maybe with suspension forks (with a lockout) and a dropper post, and slightly bigger tyres than we used to run. But that's as far as I'd want to go.
Full suspension ftw
Has GMBN ever did a video comparing the standalone Garmin Vs an App?
What do they offer that an app doesn't?
I'm of the opinion on saving a few hundred quid and use your phone, which very likely has a much clearer and brighter display.
Feel free to change my mind.
There are a few problems, like the lack reliable mounts for phones unless you have an iPhone or Samsung, sun burning your display and much shorter battery life, phone screens are not designed to be on constantly. But it's definitely possible!
fall once and its bye bye phone.
Some durability for when you will crash.
Battery life (and if you need to make a phone call in an emergency you’ve not run your battery out), more compact, cheaper than a phone, more water resistant.
Garmin uses not only GPS but also Glonass satellites, which makes altitude measurements much more accurate.
Also, I'd don't feel comfortable strapping my phone to my handlebars. For a road bike it's fine, but on a mtb? No thanks
Love your video u have a new subscriber love from VANUATU🇻🇺🇻🇺🇻🇺
Thanks for subbing!
Honestly I ride full suspension only because of the terrain I’m riding hardtails are super fun how you feel in contact more with the trail I’ve never ridden mtb with a rigid tho
One at home...Love it!
Glad to see rigid work so well. After some easy trail into a root covered climb, it felt like my soul was crushed on a rigid. Just means I have to keep at it.
Argh man was you guys there this weekend just gone 😲😲 Was there all weekend sending it on my Hardcore Hardtail was a mega good laugh went hamming it down Sheepskull on the hardtail and was laughing all the way down even having a big crash it was such a laugh love hardtail 🤘🤘
Those Orbea bikes look sooo good man!!!
On the rigid "...in fact it's a relief to be in the air" good ol british humor lol
You see quite a few rigid MTB in the Netherlands. They put on a big chainring on and go beach racing.
In defence of the rigid it was always going to come last in this test, but I have a carbon fibre, flat bar gravel bike which I love riding. For loops from home on bridleways and country lanes it is the perfect tool and it is fun to ride. You just have to be much more careful with line choice!
The fully rigid bike is ideal for urban commute though. I got my set up like that w/ 2.0 semi slicks, and hang w roadies all the time.
I have a chameleon that can do a bit of everything and is a ton of fun.
These vids now look so modern
Nice advert!!! I like the way it had adverts in the middle of it!! :)
Just got my 162mm 170mm enduro bike for the proper gnarly trails in BC. N+1, I guess I'll have to get a hardtail too now
I love my hardtail but may switch back to full suspension in the future.
I love my hardtail but at 63 years of age sometimes wish that I had full suspension on the fast down hills as the body feels it now
A Ridgid a so much fun because it's way more challenging and puts your skills to the test, I'm surprised Niel hated it. Granted it wouldn't be my only bike!
I ride rigid right now because of the technical challenge it offers me as a rider, but yeah having suspension is nice and fast but the bikes especially the fs ones are getting more and more like motorcycles, with the long wheels base and long frames which make riders a bit lazy and too comfortable. I like new tech and stuff but the prices are getting to extreme and in the end it is the rider that limits the performance.
Super nice content, that is for sure and I have to say that Oreba bikes today look very sublime.
I have rigid steel Surly Karate Monkey I bought use. I think for me rigid works best with 27.5x2.8 and larger or 29x2.6 and larger. I tried 2.5 with my KM once & while it was a bit lighter, it wasn't as fun. I like how I can plow with plus tires.
Ive just built a fully ridgid XC bike currently using it for city riding (semi slick mtb City tyres) but now thinking i could use it for some compact gravel
I love hardtails for shreddin hard🤘
Really nicely done.
I feel like a full sus is a snowboard and hard tail and ridged is like skis I like the my ridged since I like to bike pack.
Great bikes!!
I always wanted a slopestyle bike wish I could have one.😢😔
Awesome Channel!!
Nice bikes love the design on them.
hardtails are more fun to do jumps with or more fun on flow trail but for trails with drops obviously I'd rather have something to soften my fall at the back
Cool vid
Thanks! 🙌
For xc id take a hardtail all day. As long as its up to my spec. Fork for my wieght. A good set of tires . Good bars with a good bend that i like. And thats all i need.
I have a fully rigid fatbike, and I am 3 minutes faster on the trail I ride that on than my full suspension bike, but there aren't any descents. I occasionally ride my son"s hardtail bike and it is really fun too.
I think it would have made more sense to start with the full suspension, then the hardtail and end with the fully rigid. After 3 laps, you know the best lines, so you have the advantage there. Seems the full suspension had the best of both worlds, previous experience and softest ride.
i think this vid is great for experienced riders. would you modify your comparison for beginner n learning how to ride? i think, like golf, it depends more on skill, not cost or tech. could your recommend best way to learn fundamentals of riding that doesnt depend on cost/quality of parts?
Orbea ! Awesome bikes for the price ⚡👌🏻👍🏻
How come that this Alma with 830g frame, xtr and carbon everything weights 9.2kg with the rigid fork, so about 10.1 with the suspension? Something's not quite right there. My XL Procaliber which frame is TWICE as heavy and on alloy wheels weighs 10.18kg with suspension :o
My sl canyon also 9,2kg with xt and alu wheels and a fox fork.
I think a lauf fork it the perfect balance between hardtale and ridged in terms of weight and travel
I really like riding my Alma but sometimes I would like to be able to have just a little more "fun" with it.