Bro, Mbappé has literally scored 50 goals this season so far counting club and national team, but I agree with the guy in the video, it's not about how many goals you scored, it's about how important you were when your team needed it most combined with titles .
@@44nkk if mbappe had a champion's league, i would say yes. ronaldo had 1 and messi had 3. he has better numbers, but in the worst league of the top 5. i would give him more props on the world cups if he didnt have like 7 other world class players around him. (that's not his fault, but it is what it is)
@@tristanwatkins7046 Mbappe is a WC winner and runner up, best player at the 2022 WC and one of the best in 2018, 7x Ligue 1 champion and won the Nations League as well. His Champions League career and overall stats are far better than Ronaldos. Its not really a debate.
Listen this video is so unreal because its literally what ive been saying to people..this generation does not have goats, of all the young players playing currently when they retire they most probably will not be in the goat conversation and thats okay, we just back to normal now, Leo & Cristiano spoiled us. We have to realise the two other players in the goat conversation other than Leo & Cr7 are men whos heyday was 40 YEARS ago. So hell yeah the quality has dropped because 60 goals a season is outrageous, which shows what an amazing season Haaland had last year, if the 2022 world cup was played in June the 23' balloni would've been his no question about it, and just because he cant dribble past 4 men and beat the keeper near post doesn't change the fact that he was the best player in the world I think we are back in an era where the ballon d'or will be bouncing around from player to player, year in year out..like normal Great video!!!
I agree with the trophy thing, I've always hated that notion. It's just a way for whoever is choosing to be lazy and go off trophies instead of watching actual performances.
Exactly. Henry not gettin a Ballon D’or in 2003 just cuz he didn’t win the Prem when he literally put up 24 goals and 20 assists in a single LEAGUE season is nuts to me. Him comin 4th the next season was even more ridiculous cuz he actually had the Prem trophy dat time (while goin invincible) and somehow dropped in the voting. You can’t convince me there was an individual player better than Henry from 2002-2004, I’m literally jus gonna assume it was a “You had to be there” thing and leave it at dat bcuz I watched as many 02-03 Juventus and 03/04 Milan games as I could find on the internet and neither Nedved nor Shevchenko moved me as much as prime Henry
@@mandafrombk it's because Serie A was the toughest league at that time. The league itself influences the Ballon D'Or. Like look at today, if a player from Ligue 1 or the Bundesliga wants to win the Ballon D'Or, they would have to win the UCL, the League, and have an amazing individual season. And even then, they still might not win it (e.g Lewandowski)
@@Zz-if4fy Exactly. It was considered the best League in the World. So if you were the best player in the best League, of course they were going to award you.
People dont understand that the award isnt about”you need to be this good to win it” its not about how good you are, it’s about how good you are compared to the other players that season.
@@vaibhavgore165if he wins the euros as the top scorer and has a great start to his madrid career, recency bias is probably going to favour him immensely
Over the years, I think people have been putting too much emphasis when it comes to team trophies when talking about “who should win the Ballon Dor”. This hasn’t been a trend that has been going on either this year or last year, I’ve noticed this in the last 3-4 years. People forget that back in the day when Messi and Ronaldo were at their peak the only way their individual brilliance in a season could be differentiated was off of the amount of trophies they won for their respective teams. Both of their stats were so good and the only way to separate them was off of team trophies and for me that was a fair tiebreaker between Messi and Ronaldo. In recent years however, a player can win a Ballon Dor or finish top 3 in the award because they played on a team that was successful even though they weren’t even the best player at their club or national team. This has been down to a product of voters fatigue as a lot of people got tired of Messi and Ronaldo winning this award and many fans wanted to see other players get more recognition. We should decide the Ballon Dor winner off of goals assists stats team impact for club and country individual performances consistency and how decisive you are for your team in big games. The best example of this was Jorginho. In 2021, he finished 3rd in the Ballon Dor because he won 2 European trophies which was the EUROs and the champions league when the reality is that he was nowhere near the best player on Chelsea or the Italy national team. You can’t be in the conversation for the best player in the world when you’re not even the best player on your team. Remember in 2010, people said that Wesley Sneijder was robbed of the Ballon Dor because in that year he won the treble with Inter Milan and reached the World Cup final with the Netherlands when in that year he was nowhere near the best player in the world and he wasn’t even the best player at his club. In 2013, people are upset that Franck Ribery didn’t win the Ballon Dor because he was an important part of a team that won the treble, again he was never truly at a Ballon Dor level and even if he was, Bayern Munich won the treble and it was more of a collective effort meaning that Ribery wasn’t even their best player. As good of a player he is, there was never a point in his career where he was close to being in the conversation for the best player in the world. We even saw it last year with Julian Alvarez he finished 7th in the Ballon Dor because he played on a team that won the treble and the World Cup in a span of 6 months and he accumulated 5 trophies, he wasn’t even a starter at Manchester City and on Argentina wasn’t close to being their best player when they won the World Cup. Kylian Mbappe and Harry Kane had identical seasons in terms of their stats as they both led all of Europe and the champions league in goals yet aren’t seen as the favorites for the Ballon Dor. Mbappe (now a Real Madrid player) realistically speaking is the best player in the world yet people seem to put other players team achievements over his individual performances and you even look at Kane, he was absolutely brilliant this season and was scoring goals left right and center, again isn’t getting Ballon Dor shouts because he didn’t win any trophies with Bayern Munich. Part of the Ballon Dor race should be a combination of individual performances and then we look at how many trophies they won because that tells the full story of what a player can do when they have an impact on a team that had a lot of success while being very good individually.
I heavily agree. I like dat you brought up Julian Alvarez too because him being top 7 solely bcuz of the total number of trophies he won is ridiculous. He contributed somewhat, especially for Argentina in the Croatia game, but overall individual performance should take precedent imo and he relatively didn’t even start too many games
I couldn't agree more with that Alvarez one, even Saka should have been above him due to his individual performances carrying arsenal to 2nd place and I hate that both vini and Jude are ballon dor favorites, especially Jude when he ghosted in most of the knockout stages
@@mikelbaningo6407 I know. When a player has been so good individually in a season, people have short term memories and forget about it easily due to the fact that they played on a team that didn’t win any trophies. Meanwhile if a player had an average season individually, and they won the champions league and the EUROs, people will then push a trend for them to be the Ballon Dor winner simply because the they played on teams that won a lot even though they weren’t even the best player on their club or national team.
@@mikelbaningo6407 you’re a clown. 🤡 Carlo Ancelotti switched Jude to play more midfield and have more defensive duties at the second half of the season because our left side was left to fragile with Jude going up. Stop watching highlights and reading stats and actually watch a game or 2
I agreed with you until you mentioned 2010 Sneijder. He absolutely did play a key role in the tremble and Netherlands reaching the final. Most goals he either assisted or he made the past before the assist and used to boss the midfield
Ronaldo had a relatively underwhelming league campaign that season and was shit against Uruguay while Modric was Real's best player in LaLiga, fantastic in the CL and best in the World Cup. It wasnt a robbery.
@@44nkk overhyping modric's weak ass ballon d'or. that's not what we doing. ronaldo got robbed. modric didn't finish the job & even if he did, modric was like a top 50 baller that season on a talent/performance basis. it's like mike conley going crazy and winning a championship and you give him mvp like hell nah. you're not good enough from a talent basis to just give the winning/trophies shit to you
@@yeatdagoat173 Modric was the best midfielder in the LaLiga, Champions League, best player at the WC and best midfielder in the world. The Mike Conley comparison is the worst thing I've ever seen.
I feel like another way they changed football is that fans now tend to look at goal contributions as if they're the ONLY thing that matters. I've even read people commenting on Diego Maradona and Ronaldo Nazario as if they weren't as good as people said just because they didn't have Messi-Ronaldo numbers. Or they retroactively claim that some Ballon d'Ors were unfair because a player had more goal contributions.
In my opinion, football hasn’t fell off if either Vinicius Junior or Jude Bellingham wins the Ballon Dor this year. Vini had 24 goals and 11 assists in all competitions and Bellingham had 23 goals and 13 assists in all competitions and both of them played a key role in Real Madrid’s success last season where they won La Liga and the Champions League while losing just 1 game in both competitions. Because people are used to seeing Messi and Ronaldo putting up 50+ goals a season, they think that Vini as an attacker has low stats for a Ballon Dor frontrunner, but we have to come to the conclusion that we’re never seeing anything like that again. Besides the Ballon Dor is won by the best footballer in the world, not best scorer, the award won by a player who scores the most goals is the Golden Boot and that award itself is a reflection on your goalscoring ability in a season there’s a difference between the 2. Other attackers in world football had more goals and assists combined than him while playing on weaker teams, Vini was very good individually and he was very impactful for Real Madrid especially in the champions league where from the RD of 16 to the final itself he got a G/A in every knockout game and being decisive for your team in big games is equally as important as the amount of trophies you’ve accumulated. With what he did in the champions league, it’s his Ballon Dor to lose unless he has a bad Copa América with Brazil and even if he does, you can’t forget his role in Real Madrid’s champions league winning run where he was the best player of the competition. And to say that Bellingham is the worst “Ballon Dor winner” ever is also very stupid. With the way he started his career at Real Madrid where he was scoring goals game in game out, he was at a rate where he could end the season with 35+ goals and there was an expectation for him to score in every game, ok he slowed down in the 2nd half of the season, as a midfielder in your first season at Real Madrid at the age or 20, 23 goals in all competitions are respectable numbers for him. I know that in the champions league knockouts, his impact in these big games was minimal at best, that doesn’t change the fact that he has been brilliant throughout the season. I don’t understand the narrative that he’s “ghosting” every time he fails to score and because of that purple patch, people were acting like he’s a striker when the reality is that he’s still a midfielder. That’s why he’s a victim of his own success at Real Madrid. People need to realize that football isn’t just about goals and assists, Bellingham doesn’t need to score in order to impact the game because his presence in both attack and defense makes him an important player for Real Madrid and in La Liga he contributed to a lot of important goals and he bagged in so many game winners that won them a lot of points. He had a very good debut season at Real Madrid and it’s his Ballon Dor if England wins the EUROs.
@@Neohacnort I think it’ll be Bellingham over Vini assuming England and Brazil wins their respective tournaments. The reason for that is because the EUROs holds far more weight than the Copa América due to the high level of prestige and the amount of people watching as well. Yes, Vini was more important than him purely because of the role he played in Real Madrid’s champions league winning run where he was the best player of the competition and had a G/A in every game in the knockouts from the RD of 16, Bellingham had a great season and if he does well at the EUROs, they’ll favor him over Vini we know how his PR works and recency bias is real as well.
But even during the Messi era you still had some great competition for a few of them. Like mentioned in this vid, prime suarez -2017, neymar -2016, but also prime harry kane - 2018 van dijk- 2019 lewa - 2020 Lewa - 2021 Benzema - 2022 Haalanad - 2023 Where all these players had insane seasons. Compare those to vini this season and it’s just not the same
Yes this is why nowadays players can never be compared to old players even if they are better and people just say “No there is no way this dude is better than that all time legend” no bro, he IS better, you are just a 40 year old guy who can’t accept that your idol from 1980 is not that good😂
Yeah, football discourse online is always like that. The comparison is so unnecessary, Vini is deffo the favorite unless Wirtz or Bellingham win Euros and Vini doesn't win the CA.
It's these kids born from 2000 onwards who've been so spoilt and in a way it's understandable because that's what they grew up watching not knowng how we were privilaged to witness Messi and ronaldo put up ungodly numbers and dominate the sport to the extent Maradona and Pele are no longer considered the 2 best ever to lace football boots as well as how many players didn't get a chance to win at least 1 Ballon D'or -iniesta ,ribery, sneijder, lewa ,neymar,suarez just to mention a few and the list goes on.
You right bro! These mfs need to chill. All our stars are young. They’re about 25 and under like Bellingham vini halland mbappe Pedri musiala wirtz and so on. Once all these guys hit 27-30 we will see how they compare to the messi Ronaldo Neymar generation
nostalgia merchants, it's just a fact of any sport that the players get better and better as the years go on , if you put vini jr on any top team in the past he would cock every "world class" defender of his time, the talent of the players doesn't change but their environment does all old players are overrated.
With how they worship those 2 like gods you would think theyd realize messi and ronaldo weren’t the standard, they were the exception. But they worship mortal men like gods so they aren’t too bright to begin with.
The standards havent fallen off, just look at Mbappe, who plays the same position as vini, LW,CF, and has like 65 G/A for club and country (typically standard numbers that Messi/Ronaldo won it with except for like 2012) winning the league the cup and super cup. Jude Bellingham and Wirtz also have like 38 G/A from midfield at age and an impressive trophy cabinetry this season. The problem lies with Vini. Not even before the UCL semis no one mentioned or thought about him for the ballon D’or, he only has 15 goals in his league, and missed 1/3rd of the season. He isn’t the top scorer, top assister of any competition, does not have the most dribbles, chances created or anything in La Liga. I remember at the end of 2023 (halfway through the ballon D’or campaign) he got in the team of the year, and everyone thought it was u fair. He really only turned up in the supercopa an Ucl. Vini only has 24 goals and 11 assists, way lower than any other contender and is only “the favourite” because he plays for Madrid and scored in the UCL. He is only really applauded because he won trophies, without being the best player on his team (or the player with most G/A). He has not been consistent this season, and if he played for a club that is not Real Madrid, he would be guaranteed not to be mentioned, take Gyokores for example, 36 goals and 14 assists and no one even mentions him. Just because he has trophies should not mean he wins the award. At the beginning of the season I thought Bellingham was overrated and didn’t really deserve it, but compared to vini he is a much better candidate. Even Harry Kane, who hasn’t won a trophy was really consistent for club and country, basically dominating every goal count this year (Bundesliga, European, UCL). Mbappe should honestly be the true winner because he has Kane’s goals and trophies. But I think it should come down to the Euros/Copa America, if wither Mbappe, Kane, Jude, Wirtz or Rodri do spectacular, that could change the conversation. Even if Vini wins Copa America as best player with most goals and assists, I still think it’s unfair to give it to him. Look at 2021, Messi with basically 61 goals and assists, CARRYING a dead Barcelona team to the Copa Del Rey did great for club and country probably doesn’t deserve it over Lewandowski, who netted 70 goals that season and was a consistent striker. So it shouldnt matter performance in big games or recency, it should look at individual stats, consistency, then records, awards and then factor in trophies, which vini wouldn’t even pass the first 2 (stats and consistency). The thing is, things haven’t become “normal” in terms of stats after Messi and Ronaldo, we have young midfielders netting 20 goals and assisting 15 times, and forwards (Kane and Mbappe) scoring 50 and assisting 15, and it’s a dumb argument to say that Vini deserves it now that he “is no longer in the Messi Ronaldo era” and things have gotten easier. The ballon D’or should go to the best, and most deserving candidate, which is either Mbappe or Bellingham. If you look at people that wernt Messi and Ronaldo in the 2010s, like Lewandowski, Neymar, Suarez, Giresman, Ribery, you would know that their stats prove that it’s not impossible to get 60+ G/A in a year, and that’s not from Leo or Cristiano. Just because he “would” have won a ballon D’or in the 90s doesn’t mean that the standards changed, and this is the 2020’s we’re talking about with literally Lewandowski having 3 BRILLIANT campaigns and missing out, Haaland and Mbappes 65+ G/A seasons last year. So the point of he doesn’t have good stats is not because people are looking through the lens of Messi and Ronaldo, it’s looking through a modern ballon D’or lens
@@Neohacnort IMO maybe a little bit. From midfield he’s put up better numbers and has been much more consistent and better with creation and defence. He also shows up when it matters too like vini, scoring 3 CRUCIAL goals across both classicos and intercepting a pass and assisting in the UCL final. Bellingham has been class since the beginning of the season, Vini only came into the conversation after UCL semi. It’s just my opinion tho
I agree with the majority of your statement but saying vini hasn't been consistent is plain wrong, he has been the most consistent big game player this season and it's not close.
@@Neohacnort yeah big games for sure. What he’s done in finals and semis is phenomenal and he turns up. What I meant by consistent is by doing it the WHOLE season, even in normal league games. I mean 15 goals in 26 La Liga games (as a LW/CF) is not great stats for a ballon D’or winner, and especially at the start of the season he was not as good as he is now.
@@niguilo-dx7urYeah i looked at Ronaldinho ballon d’or winning stats he score 17 goals in laliga in 29 games which is is bit assisted 18 to Vini’s 5 not counting champions league or Copa del Ray.
ronaldo and messi made 40 goals a season like a bad season. LOL they are two of the greatest for a reason. although i still love the early 2000 generation players more than messi and ronaldo era, but those two stats something we never see in world of football before.
@@Idcsaiyan real madrid fans, and Zidane fans. you can put stats to my face all you can, but nobody come close to Zidane in my eyes. and yeah ronaldo is 2nd on my all time list. but i'm talking about R9, not cristiano.
No lies here. Too much trophy talk when it comes to individual awards and credit. Even bench warmers who are part of trophy winning teams get too mich credit over very decent players who part of weaker teams. Kane deserves more credit this season.
International stats shouldnt be used to determine Ballon D'or winners because there are very good players who come from not-so-footballing countries. I mean, look at Lewandowski's Poland
Balon d’or is a trophy for the best player. The trophy should be given every year… If you are the best you take it its that simple wtf It just matters that no one else is better. If everyone is sunday league level and you are like a QPR level player you still win it.. whats so different to understand
Spitting with the ballon dor ≠ trophies take. It’s not just winning, it’s contributions to winning. It’ll never happen but no one contributes to winning in world football as an individual more than Rodri. To me he is clearly the best player in the world (by a fair bit) and the most deserving. Based on widely used criteria and common trends vini should and likely will win though. Also do you feel like weighing in on the convo about if vini can surpass neymar all time? Would be interested to hear what you think and why.
I agree. Mfs dont know what it means to be exceptional at football. Man city are undoubtedly the best team in the world, but they can hardly function without rodri.
@@44nkk because it doesn’t fit with previous criteria so it would be an outlier and therefore inconsistent. I guarantee he contributes more to winning than whatever bullshit ass pick you have like vini or mbappe💀
For me vini isn’t winning the ballon dor because he was definitively the best player of the season. Because realistically if you remove trophies and accolades, Kane or Mbappe would deserve this. However his ucl campaign was extremely, maybe not to the level of Messi and Ronaldo, or even lewa and benzema, but it was still impressive. And to be the best player on the best team in the most important tournament is extremely important in what it takes to win the ballon dor.
All things considered, Kane and mbappes and even haalands numbers would be some of the best ballon dor winning numbers and levels consistency in the pre Messi Ronaldo era. But post Ronaldo and Messi they really raised the bar. I’m sure Haaland will have a few 60 goal seasons (across all comps), especially if he moves to La liga one day, and Mbappe will win many ucl’s and have also put up insane numbers. But as of right now I don’t see them getting close to Ronaldo or Messi, especially Haaland. Mbappe if he randomly goes to Madrid wins like 4 ucl’s and 4 ballon dors in a row with a minimum of 50 goals a season I think he’ll get his status up to top 5 player of all time. But the likelihood of this happening is low even with Madrid seemingly being unstoppable at the moment.
2029/30 season stats Vini jR: 250 Goals, 50 assists Messi: ❌ injured for the whole season Mbappe: 350 Goals, 70 asssists FIFA 😈: and ur 2029/30 ballon’dor is Lionel Messi The fans: Da 🤬 FUK? how! 😂
I'm going to be all the all the way real when I say this I have ao much respect for Vini and his performance in the champions league finals but my gut is telling me this year the Ballon Dor winner is still going to be Jude Bellingham a lot of this has to do with Jude's PR which is insane he has the whole country of England not to mention Florentino Perez backing him and he is getting publicly co signed by the likes of Tom Brady David Beckham Zidane Usain Bolt Luis Figo R9 Raphael Nadal Novak Djokovic Kaka I mean everybody just loves this kid I feel bad for Vini but I would not be surprised come October the winner is announced as Jude Bellingham
It's about this season, not what happened in another season. People need to stop bringing things up unrelated to this season alone, same way how in other seasons, a players legacy alone can bring him the golden ball
I just think that Vini is an annoying prick, so no, Vini does NOT deserve that Ballon D'or for whining and diving all the time:) Wirtz for Ballon D'or!
He’s an annoying prick or is he someone who is standing up for himself from all rascism he’s gotten this season and last season he’s not a annoying prick he’s just standing up for himself
It’s not realistic to compare current and future players to the two best players of all time, we have just returned to normalcy.
Bro, Mbappé has literally scored 50 goals this season so far counting club and national team, but I agree with the guy in the video, it's not about how many goals you scored, it's about how important you were when your team needed it most combined with titles .
Mbappe's career at 25 is miles ahead of Ronaldo's at 25 and ahead of Messi's too probably. Let's not let media narratives cloud our judgement.
@@44nkk if mbappe had a champion's league, i would say yes. ronaldo had 1 and messi had 3. he has better numbers, but in the worst league of the top 5. i would give him more props on the world cups if he didnt have like 7 other world class players around him. (that's not his fault, but it is what it is)
@@44nkkput Messi or Ronaldo at the start of their career on PSG and they already have a champions+balondor by 25
@@tristanwatkins7046 Mbappe is a WC winner and runner up, best player at the 2022 WC and one of the best in 2018, 7x Ligue 1 champion and won the Nations League as well. His Champions League career and overall stats are far better than Ronaldos. Its not really a debate.
Listen this video is so unreal because its literally what ive been saying to people..this generation does not have goats, of all the young players playing currently when they retire they most probably will not be in the goat conversation and thats okay, we just back to normal now, Leo & Cristiano spoiled us. We have to realise the two other players in the goat conversation other than Leo & Cr7 are men whos heyday was 40 YEARS ago. So hell yeah the quality has dropped because 60 goals a season is outrageous, which shows what an amazing season Haaland had last year, if the 2022 world cup was played in June the 23' balloni would've been his no question about it, and just because he cant dribble past 4 men and beat the keeper near post doesn't change the fact that he was the best player in the world
I think we are back in an era where the ballon d'or will be bouncing around from player to player, year in year out..like normal
Great video!!!
I agree with the trophy thing, I've always hated that notion. It's just a way for whoever is choosing to be lazy and go off trophies instead of watching actual performances.
Exactly. Henry not gettin a Ballon D’or in 2003 just cuz he didn’t win the Prem when he literally put up 24 goals and 20 assists in a single LEAGUE season is nuts to me.
Him comin 4th the next season was even more ridiculous cuz he actually had the Prem trophy dat time (while goin invincible) and somehow dropped in the voting.
You can’t convince me there was an individual player better than Henry from 2002-2004, I’m literally jus gonna assume it was a “You had to be there” thing and leave it at dat bcuz I watched as many 02-03 Juventus and 03/04 Milan games as I could find on the internet and neither Nedved nor Shevchenko moved me as much as prime Henry
@@mandafrombk it's because Serie A was the toughest league at that time. The league itself influences the Ballon D'Or.
Like look at today, if a player from Ligue 1 or the Bundesliga wants to win the Ballon D'Or, they would have to win the UCL, the League, and have an amazing individual season. And even then, they still might not win it (e.g Lewandowski)
@@mandafrombksheva's one was deserved imo
People wanted a tapin merchant 😂 (haaland) to win the ballon dor over messi
@@Zz-if4fy Exactly. It was considered the best League in the World. So if you were the best player in the best League, of course they were going to award you.
People dont understand that the award isnt about”you need to be this good to win it” its not about how good you are, it’s about how good you are compared to the other players that season.
And Mbappe is better than Vini.
Look at Benzema. He was the best player *in that season*, doesn't matter that he fell off immediately after
@@Vloneburritoonly if he win Euros.. because in the end question will be what he won this season ?
@@vaibhavgore165if he wins the euros as the top scorer and has a great start to his madrid career, recency bias is probably going to favour him immensely
@@Neohacnort that's true
Over the years, I think people have been putting too much emphasis when it comes to team trophies when talking about “who should win the Ballon Dor”. This hasn’t been a trend that has been going on either this year or last year, I’ve noticed this in the last 3-4 years. People forget that back in the day when Messi and Ronaldo were at their peak the only way their individual brilliance in a season could be differentiated was off of the amount of trophies they won for their respective teams. Both of their stats were so good and the only way to separate them was off of team trophies and for me that was a fair tiebreaker between Messi and Ronaldo. In recent years however, a player can win a Ballon Dor or finish top 3 in the award because they played on a team that was successful even though they weren’t even the best player at their club or national team. This has been down to a product of voters fatigue as a lot of people got tired of Messi and Ronaldo winning this award and many fans wanted to see other players get more recognition. We should decide the Ballon Dor winner off of goals assists stats team impact for club and country individual performances consistency and how decisive you are for your team in big games.
The best example of this was Jorginho. In 2021, he finished 3rd in the Ballon Dor because he won 2 European trophies which was the EUROs and the champions league when the reality is that he was nowhere near the best player on Chelsea or the Italy national team. You can’t be in the conversation for the best player in the world when you’re not even the best player on your team. Remember in 2010, people said that Wesley Sneijder was robbed of the Ballon Dor because in that year he won the treble with Inter Milan and reached the World Cup final with the Netherlands when in that year he was nowhere near the best player in the world and he wasn’t even the best player at his club. In 2013, people are upset that Franck Ribery didn’t win the Ballon Dor because he was an important part of a team that won the treble, again he was never truly at a Ballon Dor level and even if he was, Bayern Munich won the treble and it was more of a collective effort meaning that Ribery wasn’t even their best player. As good of a player he is, there was never a point in his career where he was close to being in the conversation for the best player in the world. We even saw it last year with Julian Alvarez he finished 7th in the Ballon Dor because he played on a team that won the treble and the World Cup in a span of 6 months and he accumulated 5 trophies, he wasn’t even a starter at Manchester City and on Argentina wasn’t close to being their best player when they won the World Cup. Kylian Mbappe and Harry Kane had identical seasons in terms of their stats as they both led all of Europe and the champions league in goals yet aren’t seen as the favorites for the Ballon Dor. Mbappe (now a Real Madrid player) realistically speaking is the best player in the world yet people seem to put other players team achievements over his individual performances and you even look at Kane, he was absolutely brilliant this season and was scoring goals left right and center, again isn’t getting Ballon Dor shouts because he didn’t win any trophies with Bayern Munich. Part of the Ballon Dor race should be a combination of individual performances and then we look at how many trophies they won because that tells the full story of what a player can do when they have an impact on a team that had a lot of success while being very good individually.
I heavily agree. I like dat you brought up Julian Alvarez too because him being top 7 solely bcuz of the total number of trophies he won is ridiculous. He contributed somewhat, especially for Argentina in the Croatia game, but overall individual performance should take precedent imo and he relatively didn’t even start too many games
I couldn't agree more with that Alvarez one, even Saka should have been above him due to his individual performances carrying arsenal to 2nd place and I hate that both vini and Jude are ballon dor favorites, especially Jude when he ghosted in most of the knockout stages
@@mikelbaningo6407 I know. When a player has been so good individually in a season, people have short term memories and forget about it easily due to the fact that they played on a team that didn’t win any trophies. Meanwhile if a player had an average season individually, and they won the champions league and the EUROs, people will then push a trend for them to be the Ballon Dor winner simply because the they played on teams that won a lot even though they weren’t even the best player on their club or national team.
@@mikelbaningo6407 you’re a clown. 🤡 Carlo Ancelotti switched Jude to play more midfield and have more defensive duties at the second half of the season because our left side was left to fragile with Jude going up.
Stop watching highlights and reading stats and actually watch a game or 2
I agreed with you until you mentioned 2010 Sneijder. He absolutely did play a key role in the tremble and Netherlands reaching the final. Most goals he either assisted or he made the past before the assist and used to boss the midfield
imo modric robbing cristiano's ballon d'or started this whole subjective typa voting instead of simply who the best player that year was
Ronaldo had a relatively underwhelming league campaign that season and was shit against Uruguay while Modric was Real's best player in LaLiga, fantastic in the CL and best in the World Cup. It wasnt a robbery.
@44nkk lol we are not doing this. Everyone knew Modric didn't deserve it. The SA allegations just affected Ronaldo's voting
@@yeatdagoat173 Doing what? Everything I've said is true.
@@44nkk overhyping modric's weak ass ballon d'or. that's not what we doing. ronaldo got robbed. modric didn't finish the job & even if he did, modric was like a top 50 baller that season on a talent/performance basis. it's like mike conley going crazy and winning a championship and you give him mvp like hell nah. you're not good enough from a talent basis to just give the winning/trophies shit to you
@@yeatdagoat173 Modric was the best midfielder in the LaLiga, Champions League, best player at the WC and best midfielder in the world. The Mike Conley comparison is the worst thing I've ever seen.
I feel like another way they changed football is that fans now tend to look at goal contributions as if they're the ONLY thing that matters. I've even read people commenting on Diego Maradona and Ronaldo Nazario as if they weren't as good as people said just because they didn't have Messi-Ronaldo numbers. Or they retroactively claim that some Ballon d'Ors were unfair because a player had more goal contributions.
Team trophies have also damaged the voting system of the balond'or
In my opinion, football hasn’t fell off if either Vinicius Junior or Jude Bellingham wins the Ballon Dor this year. Vini had 24 goals and 11 assists in all competitions and Bellingham had 23 goals and 13 assists in all competitions and both of them played a key role in Real Madrid’s success last season where they won La Liga and the Champions League while losing just 1 game in both competitions. Because people are used to seeing Messi and Ronaldo putting up 50+ goals a season, they think that Vini as an attacker has low stats for a Ballon Dor frontrunner, but we have to come to the conclusion that we’re never seeing anything like that again. Besides the Ballon Dor is won by the best footballer in the world, not best scorer, the award won by a player who scores the most goals is the Golden Boot and that award itself is a reflection on your goalscoring ability in a season there’s a difference between the 2. Other attackers in world football had more goals and assists combined than him while playing on weaker teams, Vini was very good individually and he was very impactful for Real Madrid especially in the champions league where from the RD of 16 to the final itself he got a G/A in every knockout game and being decisive for your team in big games is equally as important as the amount of trophies you’ve accumulated. With what he did in the champions league, it’s his Ballon Dor to lose unless he has a bad Copa América with Brazil and even if he does, you can’t forget his role in Real Madrid’s champions league winning run where he was the best player of the competition.
And to say that Bellingham is the worst “Ballon Dor winner” ever is also very stupid. With the way he started his career at Real Madrid where he was scoring goals game in game out, he was at a rate where he could end the season with 35+ goals and there was an expectation for him to score in every game, ok he slowed down in the 2nd half of the season, as a midfielder in your first season at Real Madrid at the age or 20, 23 goals in all competitions are respectable numbers for him. I know that in the champions league knockouts, his impact in these big games was minimal at best, that doesn’t change the fact that he has been brilliant throughout the season. I don’t understand the narrative that he’s “ghosting” every time he fails to score and because of that purple patch, people were acting like he’s a striker when the reality is that he’s still a midfielder. That’s why he’s a victim of his own success at Real Madrid. People need to realize that football isn’t just about goals and assists, Bellingham doesn’t need to score in order to impact the game because his presence in both attack and defense makes him an important player for Real Madrid and in La Liga he contributed to a lot of important goals and he bagged in so many game winners that won them a lot of points. He had a very good debut season at Real Madrid and it’s his Ballon Dor if England wins the EUROs.
Who do you think would win it if Brazil wins the copa america and England wins the euros?
@@Neohacnort I think it’ll be Bellingham over Vini assuming England and Brazil wins their respective tournaments. The reason for that is because the EUROs holds far more weight than the Copa América due to the high level of prestige and the amount of people watching as well. Yes, Vini was more important than him purely because of the role he played in Real Madrid’s champions league winning run where he was the best player of the competition and had a G/A in every game in the knockouts from the RD of 16, Bellingham had a great season and if he does well at the EUROs, they’ll favor him over Vini we know how his PR works and recency bias is real as well.
But even during the Messi era you still had some great competition for a few of them. Like mentioned in this vid, prime suarez -2017, neymar -2016, but also
prime harry kane - 2018
van dijk- 2019
lewa - 2020
Lewa - 2021
Benzema - 2022
Haalanad - 2023
Where all these players had insane seasons. Compare those to vini this season and it’s just not the same
But like in the mid 10's you had mfs finishing outside of the top 5 still having a greater season than what vini has had
I know right? This guys only argument is that standards have gotten lower, failing to acknowledge other good candidates that should EASILY beat him.
@@niguilo-dx7ur you’re a 🤡 go away
Nostalgia bias is so real
Yea nostalgia 69 goals and 91 goals it is not nostalgia bias they are just too good
Yes this is why nowadays players can never be compared to old players even if they are better and people just say “No there is no way this dude is better than that all time legend” no bro, he IS better, you are just a 40 year old guy who can’t accept that your idol from 1980 is not that good😂
or maybe messi and ronaldo are just too good
Yeah, football discourse online is always like that. The comparison is so unnecessary, Vini is deffo the favorite unless Wirtz or Bellingham win Euros and Vini doesn't win the CA.
This needs to go viral ❤
It's these kids born from 2000 onwards who've been so spoilt and in a way it's understandable because that's what they grew up watching not knowng how we were privilaged to witness Messi and ronaldo put up ungodly numbers and dominate the sport to the extent Maradona and Pele are no longer considered the 2 best ever to lace football boots as well as how many players didn't get a chance to win at least 1 Ballon D'or -iniesta ,ribery, sneijder, lewa ,neymar,suarez just to mention a few and the list goes on.
You right bro! These mfs need to chill. All our stars are young. They’re about 25 and under like Bellingham vini halland mbappe Pedri musiala wirtz and so on. Once all these guys hit 27-30 we will see how they compare to the messi Ronaldo Neymar generation
3:06 from were is that image from someone check on vini I think he liked braking bad a little too much
nostalgia merchants, it's just a fact of any sport that the players get better and better as the years go on , if you put vini jr on any top team in the past he would cock every "world class" defender of his time, the talent of the players doesn't change but their environment does all old players are overrated.
It's not nostalgia, it's just a fact that any world class player from the 2010's would dominate today's game and win this seasons balond'or EASILY
@@Neohacnort thats just not true, game isnt the same. You dont know how players would fare out in this era
This makes so much sense, well detailed
Got lost reading the comments, dis some good content
With how they worship those 2 like gods you would think theyd realize messi and ronaldo weren’t the standard, they were the exception. But they worship mortal men like gods so they aren’t too bright to begin with.
The standards havent fallen off, just look at Mbappe, who plays the same position as vini, LW,CF, and has like 65 G/A for club and country (typically standard numbers that Messi/Ronaldo won it with except for like 2012) winning the league the cup and super cup. Jude Bellingham and Wirtz also have like 38 G/A from midfield at age and an impressive trophy cabinetry this season. The problem lies with Vini. Not even before the UCL semis no one mentioned or thought about him for the ballon D’or, he only has 15 goals in his league, and missed 1/3rd of the season. He isn’t the top scorer, top assister of any competition, does not have the most dribbles, chances created or anything in La Liga. I remember at the end of 2023 (halfway through the ballon D’or campaign) he got in the team of the year, and everyone thought it was u fair. He really only turned up in the supercopa an Ucl. Vini only has 24 goals and 11 assists, way lower than any other contender and is only “the favourite” because he plays for Madrid and scored in the UCL. He is only really applauded because he won trophies, without being the best player on his team (or the player with most G/A). He has not been consistent this season, and if he played for a club that is not Real Madrid, he would be guaranteed not to be mentioned, take Gyokores for example, 36 goals and 14 assists and no one even mentions him. Just because he has trophies should not mean he wins the award. At the beginning of the season I thought Bellingham was overrated and didn’t really deserve it, but compared to vini he is a much better candidate. Even Harry Kane, who hasn’t won a trophy was really consistent for club and country, basically dominating every goal count this year (Bundesliga, European, UCL). Mbappe should honestly be the true winner because he has Kane’s goals and trophies. But I think it should come down to the Euros/Copa America, if wither Mbappe, Kane, Jude, Wirtz or Rodri do spectacular, that could change the conversation. Even if Vini wins Copa America as best player with most goals and assists, I still think it’s unfair to give it to him. Look at 2021, Messi with basically 61 goals and assists, CARRYING a dead Barcelona team to the Copa Del Rey did great for club and country probably doesn’t deserve it over Lewandowski, who netted 70 goals that season and was a consistent striker.
So it shouldnt matter performance in big games or recency, it should look at individual stats, consistency, then records, awards and then factor in trophies, which vini wouldn’t even pass the first 2 (stats and consistency).
The thing is, things haven’t become “normal” in terms of stats after Messi and Ronaldo, we have young midfielders netting 20 goals and assisting 15 times, and forwards (Kane and Mbappe) scoring 50 and assisting 15, and it’s a dumb argument to say that Vini deserves it now that he “is no longer in the Messi Ronaldo era” and things have gotten easier. The ballon D’or should go to the best, and most deserving candidate, which is either Mbappe or Bellingham. If you look at people that wernt Messi and Ronaldo in the 2010s, like Lewandowski, Neymar, Suarez, Giresman, Ribery, you would know that their stats prove that it’s not impossible to get 60+ G/A in a year, and that’s not from Leo or Cristiano. Just because he “would” have won a ballon D’or in the 90s doesn’t mean that the standards changed, and this is the 2020’s we’re talking about with literally Lewandowski having 3 BRILLIANT campaigns and missing out, Haaland and Mbappes 65+ G/A seasons last year. So the point of he doesn’t have good stats is not because people are looking through the lens of Messi and Ronaldo, it’s looking through a modern ballon D’or lens
Bellingham deserves the balond'or more than vini??
@@Neohacnort IMO maybe a little bit. From midfield he’s put up better numbers and has been much more consistent and better with creation and defence. He also shows up when it matters too like vini, scoring 3 CRUCIAL goals across both classicos and intercepting a pass and assisting in the UCL final. Bellingham has been class since the beginning of the season, Vini only came into the conversation after UCL semi. It’s just my opinion tho
I agree with the majority of your statement but saying vini hasn't been consistent is plain wrong, he has been the most consistent big game player this season and it's not close.
@@Neohacnort yeah big games for sure. What he’s done in finals and semis is phenomenal and he turns up. What I meant by consistent is by doing it the WHOLE season, even in normal league games. I mean 15 goals in 26 La Liga games (as a LW/CF) is not great stats for a ballon D’or winner, and especially at the start of the season he was not as good as he is now.
@@niguilo-dx7urYeah i looked at Ronaldinho ballon d’or winning stats he score 17 goals in laliga in 29 games which is is bit assisted 18 to Vini’s 5 not counting champions league or Copa del Ray.
ronaldo and messi made 40 goals a season like a bad season. LOL they are two of the greatest for a reason. although i still love the early 2000 generation players more than messi and ronaldo era, but those two stats something we never see in world of football before.
Let me guess you're a Ronaldo fan?
@@Idcsaiyan real madrid fans, and Zidane fans. you can put stats to my face all you can, but nobody come close to Zidane in my eyes. and yeah ronaldo is 2nd on my all time list. but i'm talking about R9, not cristiano.
@@benediktusgalih6358 Interesting 😂 just reminding you mesi clear they not the two greatest My Argentine babe messi clear 😩🙏
@@Idcsaiyan i see, tbh i don't really want to got into debate with messi or CR7 fans. lol
@@benediktusgalih6358 Good know your place my Argentine goat above all
holy shiz actual facts, logic, and perspective wtf
No lies here. Too much trophy talk when it comes to individual awards and credit. Even bench warmers who are part of trophy winning teams get too mich credit over very decent players who part of weaker teams. Kane deserves more credit this season.
International stats shouldnt be used to determine Ballon D'or winners because there are very good players who come from not-so-footballing countries. I mean, look at Lewandowski's Poland
Balon d’or is a trophy for the best player. The trophy should be given every year… If you are the best you take it its that simple wtf It just matters that no one else is better. If everyone is sunday league level and you are like a QPR level player you still win it.. whats so different to understand
There's an Italian saying, "in a Kingdom of blind people, the one with one eye is the King"
Spitting with the ballon dor ≠ trophies take. It’s not just winning, it’s contributions to winning. It’ll never happen but no one contributes to winning in world football as an individual more than Rodri. To me he is clearly the best player in the world (by a fair bit) and the most deserving. Based on widely used criteria and common trends vini should and likely will win though.
Also do you feel like weighing in on the convo about if vini can surpass neymar all time? Would be interested to hear what you think and why.
Rodri winning the Ballon Dor would undoubtably be the worst moment in the history of all professional sports
I agree. Mfs dont know what it means to be exceptional at football. Man city are undoubtedly the best team in the world, but they can hardly function without rodri.
@@44nkk because it doesn’t fit with previous criteria so it would be an outlier and therefore inconsistent. I guarantee he contributes more to winning than whatever bullshit ass pick you have like vini or mbappe💀
@@B1izzarddWhy the disrespect to mbappe and vini?
@@Neohacnort matching the disrespect to Rodri and I almost guarantee he picks one of those guys.
For me vini isn’t winning the ballon dor because he was definitively the best player of the season. Because realistically if you remove trophies and accolades, Kane or Mbappe would deserve this. However his ucl campaign was extremely, maybe not to the level of Messi and Ronaldo, or even lewa and benzema, but it was still impressive. And to be the best player on the best team in the most important tournament is extremely important in what it takes to win the ballon dor.
You basically just said that Kane and Mbappe is better. Isn’t the ballon dor suppose to go to the past player that year
Dunno why everyone’s picking favourites now it’s the euros that’s gonna count
All things considered, Kane and mbappes and even haalands numbers would be some of the best ballon dor winning numbers and levels consistency in the pre Messi Ronaldo era. But post Ronaldo and Messi they really raised the bar. I’m sure Haaland will have a few 60 goal seasons (across all comps), especially if he moves to La liga one day, and Mbappe will win many ucl’s and have also put up insane numbers. But as of right now I don’t see them getting close to Ronaldo or Messi, especially Haaland. Mbappe if he randomly goes to Madrid wins like 4 ucl’s and 4 ballon dors in a row with a minimum of 50 goals a season I think he’ll get his status up to top 5 player of all time. But the likelihood of this happening is low even with Madrid seemingly being unstoppable at the moment.
2029/30 season stats
Vini jR: 250 Goals, 50 assists
Messi: ❌ injured for the whole season
Mbappe: 350 Goals, 70 asssists
FIFA 😈: and ur 2029/30 ballon’dor is Lionel Messi
The fans: Da 🤬 FUK? how! 😂
Get over it bro it's been over a year
How old are you
I'm going to be all the all the way real when I say this I have ao much respect for Vini and his performance in the champions league finals but my gut is telling me this year the Ballon Dor winner is still going to be Jude Bellingham a lot of this has to do with Jude's PR which is insane he has the whole country of England not to mention Florentino Perez backing him and he is getting publicly co signed by the likes of Tom Brady David Beckham Zidane Usain Bolt Luis Figo R9 Raphael Nadal Novak Djokovic Kaka I mean everybody just loves this kid I feel bad for Vini but I would not be surprised come October the winner is announced as Jude Bellingham
If Messi wins the copa America…
Top tier content tbh
How is Vini Jr a favourite to win it tho? Its obviously going to be Bellingham especially if England do well in the Euros
Factos 👍
foden??? aw hell nah
EPL player of the season
Lovely video
Thank you for ripping Nedved, him and Shevchenko robbed Henry
It wasn’t just Messi and Ronaldo. It’s Neymar it’s saurez it’s ribery it’s Iniesta it’s lewa. Vini is legit a joke
Vinicius' numbers are on par with 2000s megastars. Shevchenko or Del Piero could have put those numbers and no one would have treated them as jokes
It's about this season, not what happened in another season. People need to stop bringing things up unrelated to this season alone, same way how in other seasons, a players legacy alone can bring him the golden ball
nah messi should win it tbh that copa win was CRAZYYYY
What a video
I just think that Vini is an annoying prick, so no, Vini does NOT deserve that Ballon D'or for whining and diving all the time:)
Wirtz for Ballon D'or!
He’s an annoying prick or is he someone who is standing up for himself from all rascism he’s gotten this season and last season he’s not a annoying prick he’s just standing up for himself