9:22 He does not know there is a fold down murphy bed behind the seats. Glad to see the Wonder is now on a gas powered Ford Transit, only problem is that its not winterized with dual pane windows and the holding tanks are not inside. The 2024 all season Chinook EB 365 model is far better, the one with the murphy bed on one side and the pop up tv and fireplace on the other side, not the one shown here.
You're right that we didn't realize the Murphy bed was there because it was oriented sideways. It was hard to judge the width without actually lowering the bed which we should have done on camera to make it more clear. Thanks for the info on the windows. We wish we would have seen that Chinook, it sounds like something we would have liked. Thanks for the comment. Happy Travels.
Yup, we missed it back then. Check out our recent video where we look at the Unity Rear Lounge: th-cam.com/video/0lIoCrN_vL0/w-d-xo.html Thanks for the post.
The benefit of separating the toilet and the shower on the leisure vans is you get two separate spaces. I go to bed later than my husband and get up earlier so it works well. The shower is small and my husband complains about that and uses the campground showers. We have a unity rear island bed which they stopped making. The front seats turn about and recline so we sit in those.
You make a great point. We agree that traveling in these smaller RVs makes it harder to coordinate different sleep schedules and habits. Thanks for the comment and the input. Happy Travels!
It is stunning to see the differences between American designs and those from Europe. Class B+ here are huge!! Some European designs feature a drop down bed (manual or electric) that saves the need for a separate bedroom space, thus keeping the size down. The other shocker is the price differences. American companies are gouging consumers. A really nice Burstner Lyseo 684 will run almost half the price of many of the models shown here. The Europeans are also leaning towards a single shell construction that is built more like a boat hull or roto-molded cooler rather that a box with seams that can fail...no bump-outs, but way more reliable IMO when it comes to future leaks and the problems that plague American models. I recommend you check out some brands like the Burstner, Benimar, or Wingamm. You may be real surprised at what can fit in 22'!
You are so right! We were in Europe last year, and we saw some of the smaller models they have available and we were blown away. We are big fans of those "drop-down" beds as well as the single-shell construction. We are hopeful some of those European models will be more widely available on the US market, but we suspect there may be some US government regulations hindering the process. We will definitely take a look at the models you listed. Thanks for taking the time to provide us with this information,. I'm sure our viewers appreciate it.
@@halffasttravelers2702 Good morning and thanks for your reply! Your channel is awesome for me to daydream and research. Thank you for all your work in this space! WIngamm is starting to offer some models here, but I am hoping to maybe import a used Bailey of Benimar if I can find the right one (cheaper to import used than new). The Bailey Adamo is also another cool brand, as well as Challenger from France. I have a feeling the reason we don't have them readily available here is because it would upset our market and undercut many American companies. Why pay $150,000 for a huge vehicle when you can pay $80,000 for a city capable unit with the same sleeping capacity and easy for anyone to drive? That alone destroys years of American marketing and standards... Edit: once I saw the drop down beds, I was sold on that design and it has become the one feature that I am shopping for.
That BT Cruiser 5210 is on the Ford E350 Chassis, not the Transit. May be the case with the other Gulfstream models you showed (I didn't look into those).
No, you are absolutely right. At the show, we had seen so many small Class C's (B Pluses) that we labeled these as Transits out of habit. Thanks for clarifying for our viewers.
The Winnebago Ekko 22A has an actual dry bath. The shower segment pulls out of the wall. It's not perfect, but it might just get the job done in a pinch. Also, what are you driving now? Are you telling a vehicle? We are not interested in towing vehicle.
Yes, we should have shown that "convertible" shower in the video. It really is an ingenious design and keeps the toilet area dry. Thanks for pointing that out to our Half Fasters.
Very good video. I was looking at some used RV's on-line and most of the ones I found were twin beds - Why so many people like the twin bed set up? (honest question) I am very practical so for me my deal breakers are: No kitchen counter space, a folding bed, playing Tetris to go to bed every night, a bed right (Murphy or couch) right in the front door, folding couch beds. I must have a fixed not foldable bed that it is not by the front door and a decent sized kitchen counter to work that is not a little foldable extension at the end of the counter.
Great post!! I guess the question you need to ask is how large a unit are you comfortable driving? Determining where you are going and what you are doing will help you decide the first question. Some of the small Class C's we're reviewing next week, may have what you're looking for. Stay tuned.
We bought a used 2019.5 Winnebago Fuse 23F on a Transit diesel chassis. It has the fixed corner bed (we don’t mind a corner bed). It has the kitchen table that can be lowered to a small bed, but we don’t. It’s right across from the kitchen area, so I sometimes use it to prep food or for a drying area when doing dishes. We’ve been very happy with our choice!
I don't mind the corner bed either and have been looking at some with the corner bed that are quite nice. However, I need ample kitchen counter space because I cook all my meals and work remotely so the dinette table I will use for my computer/work. Thank for your input.
One of the advantages of the twin beds is you can go camping with friends and not have to share a bed. You can even take a third friend and have them sleep up front. The LTV’s convert into a king if you want. Cargo carrying capacity and storage are something to look at too and those floor plans on LTV have more storage capacity. It would be nice to have more room that the slide provides but the bed is always ready for you when you park and you do not have to open a slide.
Yeah, we totally missed it. We do include it in this video where we compare the Ekko to the Granite Ridge and the Condor. th-cam.com/video/hMqv0up0PuQ/w-d-xo.html You should check it out. Thanks.
That's not something that we considered, but you are absolutely correct. If we went with that design, we would definitely have to double-check the security of those mounts. Thanks for the posting this information.
You are absolutely right. They are on a larger chassis. That's what happens when you are looking at so many units in succession. Thanks for the correction.
@@halffasttravelers2702 the advantage of the kb is you can use without using the slide at all, which is useful in cities or short stops where you don’t want to install stabilizer. Secondly, thé passthrough storage allow putting a bigger electrical system, either a powerstation like bluetti ac200L and extra batteries, dc-dc alternator module or d40 house battery 48v -12v charger, or a full victron system. It is good also for table, chairs, any long item. It is more lightweight so you have more cargo capacity which is useful on such transit chassis limited to 11000 lbs. Occc is 1577 lbs and with generator removal it is another 121 lbs that is increasing the occc. It is also capable to host a Cinderella incinerator toilet by adding a second 40 lbs propane tank at the place of the generator. With that you can remove the black tank. This is an extreme customization but it is faisable and it would save ton of water, and avoid dump station to empty the black tank. This are idea of usage of a 24kb.
Wow, thanks for posting this great information on some of the customization that can be done to enhance the effectiveness of these RV systems. We have considered some type of compost toilet in the past, but we never got around to making the swap. We rarely use the generator, so removal is a great option to increase OCCC. We appreciate your input.
@@halffasttravelers2702 if you search a company capable to upgrade the electrical systems, just look at mytsolar, they have the experience in the thor compass 23TW already. The 24kb with the passthrough is even more simpler. They can install a full victron systems (16500$ with installation) -3 x 330ah = 990ah victron batteries -3000 plus 12v victron inverter -all victron lynx distributor, cerbo gx and monitor 7 inch - soft start a/c -4 x 250 ony rich solar panel with wiring. -dc-dc alternator charger orion. With that you can run everything in the coach My Bluetti solution is far less expensive but still capable. The difference is powerstation does not have self heating batteries so you cannot charge under 5C commonly. Victron system is capable to heat the battery before starting the charging. Discharging is less an issue. An incinerator toilet works with propane and a very few watts electricity ( for the basic running, button) it uses 130g to 180g of propane per incineration and you have a 40 lbs bottle that could be put at the place of the generator i think (need to be verified but highly probable as the generator is big. It uses special paper cheap (10$ for 500) to put in the toilet. The incineration start after each usage but can be stops in the middle by another person and will restart afterwards. The result is ash totally safe that can even be use for a tree root. The boil is easily washable. There is a connection for the propane bottle and an exhaust ti be installed up to the roof. The result odor is very mild like the odor of a candle. So it is not detectable by neighbors. The advantage is the economy on the water freah water. The system does not use at all water which can be used solely for dishes, showers. The coach also does not need black tank.
There is a legal definition. A class B is a van with only the interior modified. A class C is a van or truck chassis that keeps the driver’s cab, but has had the rest of the vehicle cut out to be modified into a motor coach. Legally, there is no such thing as a B+. That term is just used to differentiate small class C’s.
Thanks @theheartoftexas, we couldn't have said it better ourselves. We've never seen an insurance company that recognized the B Plus designation either.
We will be including the Wayfarer in next week's video where we walkthrough some small Class C's. Coincidentally it was the winner of our "Search for the Perfect RV" video if you want a sneak preview.
Yeah, we've been getting quite a bit of input on this. Read down and take a look at our response to @jjones5424. We will be making a special effort to point these distinctions out to our viewers in future videos. Thanks.
Clarification......B + is a term that some in the RV Industry have given to Class C MH's without a cab-over bed, IT IS NOT A RECOGNIZED CATEGORY OF RV. A Class C is a "cut-a-way or cab chassis" from Ford, Chevy, Ram or Mercedes. As a "cut-a-way" it is NOT a legal vehicle to drive UNTIL it is produced as a motorhome. Class B is a VAN that has been built out or renovated, but maintains the VAN WIDTH. (length can vary) When you go to license these "B +'s MH's" they WILL BE CLASSIFIED AS A CLASS C.!!!! Get it straight.
Ha ha. We love your passion. We have had a lot of input in the comments about this, and it is obviously a topic that is very near and dear to people's hearts. Now that we have all the information, we prefer to think of "B Plus" as a descriptor or designation rather than as a class of RV. We understand that there is no official B Plus Class, but to deny the term exists we think is a mistake. There are many who are searching for a van with the room of a Class C, or a Class C as versatile as a van, and we think that pointing out the B+ "descriptor" may help them in their search. We will take care to remind buyers of the fact that a B Plus is actually considered a C. Thanks for the comment.
Great video but there’s no such thing as a B+. It’s a marketing gimmick to sell small Class Cs. Some people have insisted they have a Class B+ and told their insurance agent they had a B+ so when they classified it as a B (because there is no such thing as a B+) they found their premiums were higher than a Class C. Needless to say, they quit insisting and called it what it is, a Class C.
Yeah, we have heard that was the reason for the creation of that class, but to be honest we didn't see the harm. However, we weren't aware of the insurance implications, and we agree that care should be taken when classifying your RV with your insurance agent. Thanks for the info.
@@halffasttravelers2702 there’s no harm, I say it too. When you hear it you know exactly what you’re going to see. It’s why I clicked. 😆 It’s the size we’re looking for.
Yeah they are definitely niche units. We have heard from some that Class B Pluses pretend to be Class B's and Class C's but do neither job very well. Your thoughts?
![AMERICAN TUG 435 - ODYSSEY - [Talk View Tour] - Trawler for Sale - JMYS](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Gl3SgFsbk34/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey, you missed the flip down counter extension on the Leisure Travel Vans Wonder Model.
lol, I found that during editing. I hoped no one would notice. You got me. Especially since it's a feature we love. Good Catch!
9:22 He does not know there is a fold down murphy bed behind the seats. Glad to see the Wonder is now on a gas powered Ford Transit, only problem is that its not winterized with dual pane windows and the holding tanks are not inside. The 2024 all season Chinook EB 365 model is far better, the one with the murphy bed on one side and the pop up tv and fireplace on the other side, not the one shown here.
You're right that we didn't realize the Murphy bed was there because it was oriented sideways. It was hard to judge the width without actually lowering the bed which we should have done on camera to make it more clear. Thanks for the info on the windows. We wish we would have seen that Chinook, it sounds like something we would have liked. Thanks for the comment. Happy Travels.
Yes, this guy isn't very good at what he does.
3:06 it's not Laguna, it's Lagun.
2:03 people in the know call it a countertop extension, not a flap.
Thanks for the corrections.
On the leisure wonder rear lounge, the couch is not the bed, there is a Murphy bed right in the back that comes down over the couch.
Yup, we missed it back then. Check out our recent video where we look at the Unity Rear Lounge: th-cam.com/video/0lIoCrN_vL0/w-d-xo.html Thanks for the post.
The benefit of separating the toilet and the shower on the leisure vans is you get two separate spaces. I go to bed later than my husband and get up earlier so it works well. The shower is small and my husband complains about that and uses the campground showers. We have a unity rear island bed which they stopped making. The front seats turn about and recline so we sit in those.
You make a great point. We agree that traveling in these smaller RVs makes it harder to coordinate different sleep schedules and habits. Thanks for the comment and the input. Happy Travels!
We say B+! Everyone should focus on having Fun and not worry about silly stuff. This is like arguing class B or Campervan.
We have to agree, but you've gotta love the spirited debate. Thanks for the comment, we'll have to enlist you as referee/moderator for future debates.
But the truth matters.
Thank you for your time and effort. You did a very nice, thorough review. I hope you find your perfect rv.
We're looking at as many as we can. Thanks for the vote of confidence!
It is stunning to see the differences between American designs and those from Europe. Class B+ here are huge!! Some European designs feature a drop down bed (manual or electric) that saves the need for a separate bedroom space, thus keeping the size down. The other shocker is the price differences. American companies are gouging consumers. A really nice Burstner Lyseo 684 will run almost half the price of many of the models shown here. The Europeans are also leaning towards a single shell construction that is built more like a boat hull or roto-molded cooler rather that a box with seams that can fail...no bump-outs, but way more reliable IMO when it comes to future leaks and the problems that plague American models. I recommend you check out some brands like the Burstner, Benimar, or Wingamm. You may be real surprised at what can fit in 22'!
You are so right! We were in Europe last year, and we saw some of the smaller models they have available and we were blown away. We are big fans of those "drop-down" beds as well as the single-shell construction. We are hopeful some of those European models will be more widely available on the US market, but we suspect there may be some US government regulations hindering the process. We will definitely take a look at the models you listed. Thanks for taking the time to provide us with this information,. I'm sure our viewers appreciate it.
@@halffasttravelers2702 Good morning and thanks for your reply! Your channel is awesome for me to daydream and research. Thank you for all your work in this space! WIngamm is starting to offer some models here, but I am hoping to maybe import a used Bailey of Benimar if I can find the right one (cheaper to import used than new). The Bailey Adamo is also another cool brand, as well as Challenger from France. I have a feeling the reason we don't have them readily available here is because it would upset our market and undercut many American companies. Why pay $150,000 for a huge vehicle when you can pay $80,000 for a city capable unit with the same sleeping capacity and easy for anyone to drive? That alone destroys years of American marketing and standards... Edit: once I saw the drop down beds, I was sold on that design and it has become the one feature that I am shopping for.
We are still on the hunt for some European models to review here in the U.S. We'll find one eventually and share it.
@@albieclementiBingo!!!
American companies for anything you buy love to screw us every chance they can get, the rv industry is one of the worst!
In 2025, with more tariffs, DON'T COUNT ON IMPORTED RVs IN USA (at an affordable price).
Great video!
Thanks! We are so glad you enjoyed it. Stay tuned for more...
That BT Cruiser 5210 is on the Ford E350 Chassis, not the Transit. May be the case with the other Gulfstream models you showed (I didn't look into those).
No, you are absolutely right. At the show, we had seen so many small Class C's (B Pluses) that we labeled these as Transits out of habit. Thanks for clarifying for our viewers.
The Winnebago Ekko 22A has an actual dry bath. The shower segment pulls out of the wall. It's not perfect, but it might just get the job done in a pinch.
Also, what are you driving now? Are you telling a vehicle? We are not interested in towing vehicle.
Yes, we should have shown that "convertible" shower in the video. It really is an ingenious design and keeps the toilet area dry. Thanks for pointing that out to our Half Fasters.
Very good video. I was looking at some used RV's on-line and most of the ones I found were twin beds - Why so many people like the twin bed set up? (honest question)
I am very practical so for me my deal breakers are: No kitchen counter space, a folding bed, playing Tetris to go to bed every night, a bed right (Murphy or couch) right in the front door, folding couch beds. I must have a fixed not foldable bed that it is not by the front door and a decent sized kitchen counter to work that is not a little foldable extension at the end of the counter.
Will check it out, thanks.
Great post!! I guess the question you need to ask is how large a unit are you comfortable driving? Determining where you are going and what you are doing will help you decide the first question. Some of the small Class C's we're reviewing next week, may have what you're looking for. Stay tuned.
We bought a used 2019.5 Winnebago Fuse 23F on a Transit diesel chassis. It has the fixed corner bed (we don’t mind a corner bed). It has the kitchen table that can be lowered to a small bed, but we don’t. It’s right across from the kitchen area, so I sometimes use it to prep food or for a drying area when doing dishes. We’ve been very happy with our choice!
I don't mind the corner bed either and have been looking at some with the corner bed that are quite nice. However, I need ample kitchen counter space because I cook all my meals and work remotely so the dinette table I will use for my computer/work. Thank for your input.
One of the advantages of the twin beds is you can go camping with friends and not have to share a bed. You can even take a third friend and have them sleep up front. The LTV’s convert into a king if you want. Cargo carrying capacity and storage are something to look at too and those floor plans on LTV have more storage capacity. It would be nice to have more room that the slide provides but the bed is always ready for you when you park and you do not have to open a slide.
I can’t believe u missed how the EKKO’s bathroom split wall that moves!
Yeah, we totally missed it. We do include it in this video where we compare the Ekko to the Granite Ridge and the Condor. th-cam.com/video/hMqv0up0PuQ/w-d-xo.html You should check it out. Thanks.
Phoenix cruiser beauty But that TV mount in front could easily fall on driver/passenger on rough roads. Not good
That's not something that we considered, but you are absolutely correct. If we went with that design, we would definitely have to double-check the security of those mounts. Thanks for the posting this information.
Phoenix Cruisers and Coach House are not on Ford "Transit" chassis!
You are absolutely right. They are on a larger chassis. That's what happens when you are looking at so many units in succession. Thanks for the correction.
Thor gemini 24kb is the best floor plan to me.
We really like the floor plan in the Gemini 23TW, but the KB is nice as well.
@@halffasttravelers2702 the advantage of the kb is you can use without using the slide at all, which is useful in cities or short stops where you don’t want to install stabilizer. Secondly, thé passthrough storage allow putting a bigger electrical system, either a powerstation like bluetti ac200L and extra batteries, dc-dc alternator module or d40 house battery 48v -12v charger, or a full victron system. It is good also for table, chairs, any long item. It is more lightweight so you have more cargo capacity which is useful on such transit chassis limited to 11000 lbs.
Occc is 1577 lbs and with generator removal it is another 121 lbs that is increasing the occc. It is also capable to host a Cinderella incinerator toilet by adding a second 40 lbs propane tank at the place of the generator. With that you can remove the black tank. This is an extreme customization but it is faisable and it would save ton of water, and avoid dump station to empty the black tank. This are idea of usage of a 24kb.
Wow, thanks for posting this great information on some of the customization that can be done to enhance the effectiveness of these RV systems. We have considered some type of compost toilet in the past, but we never got around to making the swap. We rarely use the generator, so removal is a great option to increase OCCC. We appreciate your input.
@@halffasttravelers2702 if you search a company capable to upgrade the electrical systems, just look at mytsolar, they have the experience in the thor compass 23TW already. The 24kb with the passthrough is even more simpler.
They can install a full victron systems (16500$ with installation)
-3 x 330ah = 990ah victron batteries
-3000 plus 12v victron inverter
-all victron lynx distributor, cerbo gx and monitor 7 inch
- soft start a/c
-4 x 250 ony rich solar panel with wiring.
-dc-dc alternator charger orion.
With that you can run everything in the coach
My Bluetti solution is far less expensive but still capable. The difference is powerstation does not have self heating batteries so you cannot charge under 5C commonly.
Victron system is capable to heat the battery before starting the charging. Discharging is less an issue.
An incinerator toilet works with propane and a very few watts electricity ( for the basic running, button) it uses 130g to 180g of propane per incineration and you have a 40 lbs bottle that could be put at the place of the generator i think (need to be verified but highly probable as the generator is big. It uses special paper cheap (10$ for 500) to put in the toilet. The incineration start after each usage but can be stops in the middle by another person and will restart afterwards.
The result is ash totally safe that can even be use for a tree root. The boil is easily washable. There is a connection for the propane bottle and an exhaust ti be installed up to the roof. The result odor is very mild like the odor of a candle. So it is not detectable by neighbors. The advantage is the economy on the water freah water. The system does not use at all water which can be used solely for dishes, showers.
The coach also does not need black tank.
More great information. Thanks for taking the time to post this.
Looks like there's no legal definition of what constitutes a Class B, Class B plus, or Class C. Do insurance companies have a definition?
There is a legal definition. A class B is a van with only the interior modified. A class C is a van or truck chassis that keeps the driver’s cab, but has had the rest of the vehicle cut out to be modified into a motor coach. Legally, there is no such thing as a B+. That term is just used to differentiate small class C’s.
Thanks @theheartoftexas, we couldn't have said it better ourselves. We've never seen an insurance company that recognized the B Plus designation either.
My hearing is a little off. I keep hearing half ass.
Nope, it sounds like you're hearing is just perfect. 😀
Tiffin Wayfarer?
We will be including the Wayfarer in next week's video where we walkthrough some small Class C's. Coincidentally it was the winner of our "Search for the Perfect RV" video if you want a sneak preview.
2024 and a person doesn't know what carbon fiber is, that's actually pretty interesting.
The fact that we suffer from mental blocks from time to time just shows how half fast we can be at times.
the e 350 is not a transit
You are absolutely correct. In true half fast fashion I misspoke. Thanks for the clarification.
The difference between a class c and bis class c is on a cut away Chassis. Class b is not. There is no class b+. They are just small class c.
Yeah, we've been getting quite a bit of input on this. Read down and take a look at our response to @jjones5424. We will be making a special effort to point these distinctions out to our viewers in future videos. Thanks.
The new Ekko 23B on Mercedes sprinter chassis
Very nice. Thanks for the info!
Wow. That Phoenix Cruiser is really dated. Most RV models are so dated but man that Phoenix is one of the dated looking.
We have to agree that that wood grain does make it look like something from the 1970's. For those of us who remember those days. Happy Travels.
It’s a class C motorhome.
Yes. it does seem like the "B Plus" designation put forth by the dealers is fading a bit back to the official Class C designation.
Van cutaway chassis without a cab over bunk should be a C- not B+. Typical sales hype.
C-Minus. We love it!!! I wouldn't hold my breath though. 😃
first thanks for videos, though thought I let you know when you say "the half fast travelers" it sounds more like the 1/2 azz travelers 🤭
Yeah, we really need to work on our pronunciation. LOL Thanks for the comment.
@@halffasttravelers2702 I giggled..lol
Clarification......B + is a term that some in the RV Industry have given to Class C MH's without a cab-over bed, IT IS NOT A RECOGNIZED CATEGORY OF RV. A Class C is a "cut-a-way or cab chassis" from Ford, Chevy, Ram or Mercedes. As a "cut-a-way" it is NOT a legal vehicle to drive UNTIL it is produced as a motorhome. Class B is a VAN that has been built out or renovated, but maintains the VAN WIDTH. (length can vary) When you go to license these "B +'s MH's" they WILL BE CLASSIFIED AS A CLASS C.!!!! Get it straight.
Ha ha. We love your passion. We have had a lot of input in the comments about this, and it is obviously a topic that is very near and dear to people's hearts. Now that we have all the information, we prefer to think of "B Plus" as a descriptor or designation rather than as a class of RV. We understand that there is no official B Plus Class, but to deny the term exists we think is a mistake. There are many who are searching for a van with the room of a Class C, or a Class C as versatile as a van, and we think that pointing out the B+ "descriptor" may help them in their search. We will take care to remind buyers of the fact that a B Plus is actually considered a C. Thanks for the comment.
Great video but there’s no such thing as a B+. It’s a marketing gimmick to sell small Class Cs. Some people have insisted they have a Class B+ and told their insurance agent they had a B+ so when they classified it as a B (because there is no such thing as a B+) they found their premiums were higher than a Class C. Needless to say, they quit insisting and called it what it is, a Class C.
Yeah, we have heard that was the reason for the creation of that class, but to be honest we didn't see the harm. However, we weren't aware of the insurance implications, and we agree that care should be taken when classifying your RV with your insurance agent. Thanks for the info.
@@halffasttravelers2702 there’s no harm, I say it too. When you hear it you know exactly what you’re going to see. It’s why I clicked. 😆 It’s the size we’re looking for.
@@60AirflyteVery well said. Thanks for clicking & thanks for the comment.
I hate Plus B RV
Yeah they are definitely niche units. We have heard from some that Class B Pluses pretend to be Class B's and Class C's but do neither job very well. Your thoughts?