Pathfinder Ancestry Guide: The Orcs
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- Happy Friday everyone. I'm doing another Friday release this week of my new video. Hope you all enjoy.
This is my final video on the Ancestries of Golarion. This video we are talking everything Orc! This is the history of Orcs in general fiction, of Orcs in Golarion, of the Hold of Belkzen, plus coverage of orc subtypes and what to know about playing an orc character in Pathfinder.
▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Preamble
0:44 - Evolution of the Orc
10:17 - Orcs in Pathfinder
14:32 - Orc Tribes
19:55 - Orc Religion
22:14 - Orc Citizens in Human Settlements
23:33 - Outro
CREDITS
The large high-res map I use is not a Paizo official map, but the work of the incomparable Rob McCaleb ( www.artstation.com/robmccaleb ) used here with their gracious permission.
#paizo #pathfinder #golarion #innersea #roleplaying #rpg #history #lore #timeline #dnd #ancestry #orc #halforc
![ตีสิบเดย์ [FULL] | ครอบครัวสะท้านทุ่ง "นางบี & อ้ายสติ๊ก"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A1rhYcxxNtA/mqdefault.jpg)
A game that I think a lot of people overlook when discussing the evolution of orcs is Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall from 1996. The orcs there are portrayed as a noble people that are fighting to have their own country through intrigue, diplomacy, and war when necessary.
God, I love that you reference Death of Hellscream. That cut scene alone cemented my love for Orcs as a fantasy race.
It’s great 😊
Awesome to see orcs covered in such a complex light. The can be one of the best races to roleplay with. Have a magnificent day everyone! Thanks for the vid.
But orcs weren't to go away because racism?
After you finish the main pantheon, maybe revisit this series and discuss some of the ancestries from the Lost Omens Character & Ancestry Guides, like Kobolds, Hobgoblins, Iruxi, and Azarketi
I've gotten this request enough times now that, yes, I will get around to doing an expanded series of additional ancestries. Coming soon(ish).
I really like how you go deep into all aspect of the races when you do a race video, going from their pop culture origin to ingame representation, tribes or clans, history and pantheon, to modern day in the game settings. Thank you for your work realy appreciate your videos and looking forward to see more of them!
Thanks man, I was especially proud of this one. Hope to keep the quality up for you guys. 🙂
Very Klingon-esque, even a bit Romulan. The Klingons too were once enemies.
Found this series a bit ago and enjoying binge-watching; very well done.
Glad to see more pathfinder channels popping up. Would love to see you do a beginners guide after the gods.
Beginner's guide, meaning how to play?
@@TheMythKeeper sort of, more of the best way new players and gms can get into the game. Best starter adventure paths, trimming down the rules or a walk through of the beginner box. That sor of thing.
@@spartanpiplup6229 Let me see what I can do along these lines. As you've probably seen, I've tried to keep rules out of my channel, and just focus on lore and background. I also must confess I have never picked up the beginner box. 😅 That said I have been thinking about doing a beginner GM guide, less focused on rules, and more on how to get your party on the same page about stuff and how to tell a great collaborative story.
Your story about the history of orcs in fiction finally helped me put something together that has always nagged at me; why orcs are depicted as pig guys in japanese fantasy stuff. I knew that an early version of DnD became fairly popular over there not long after it was released. Orcs in Dragon Quest, Record of Lodoss War, and Final Fantasy are all based on that original concept. So they started from the same place, why did they not evolve in the same way the orc concept did in the west? I'm fairly certain about 2 things, but not their relative importance in this history: 1. Warhammer and subsequently Warcraft simply did not have the impact there that it did in the west 2. Japan kind of doesn't need that version of Orcs, because the visual design space is covered by Oni, and the "noble race of warrior natives" concept is less directly applicable. Not that mainland Japanese culture doesn't have a conflict history with native populations, they absolutely do. But their conceptualization of that history is not directly compatible with ours as presented in the fantasy Orc. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to hear that the Oni was an influence on the Warhammer Orc.
Man, I feel like I learned so much watching this. I had no idea just how complex and varied the orc societies were in Golarion.
I can go further on two points here.
1) Warcraft was originally meant to be a Warhammer game. The Kingdom of Azeroth mirrors The Empire pretty closely in unit design. Blizzard couldn't secure the IP from Games Worshop and had to switch to their own original universe.
2) "orcneas" being translated as "evil spirits" is probably more in keeping with the fact that "orcus" as a Latin word was associated with a Latin deity, Orcus, a god of the underworld and of oaths. (An association with oaths and orcs is found again in the Elder Scrolls universe where Malacanth is the patron of Orcs and a god of retribution and vengeance).
As oathbreaking is a serious social taboo, and as the Latin cthonic and underworldly deities were steadily infernalised by Christianity; orcus, orcneas and orci were all associated with the "impure spirits" of the Bible that plague humans and tempt them to sin.
I would love to see an in depth ancestry video on cyclopean / Ghol-Gan pathfinder lore. You're channel is awesome loving all the pathfinder content. Currently running a shackles/darklands setting in pathfinder 1e.
5:33 the way I heard it, GW contracted Blizzard to make a Warhmmer Fantasy game, but never got back to them. Blizzard was like "well we have all these assets and a game pretty much made, it would be a shame to let it go to waste."
Edit: man, you really put that whole cutscene in there! I gotta go watch the Warlords of Draenor one now. I love orcs (and orks) so much!
Yes I'd heard something similar, but it was largely hearsay and I couldn't find enough supporting evidence. Regardless, if they were contracted, making a bid for the work or just inspired by, the influence is obvious. ;-)
that is a lie, all that stuff about warcraft and starcraft being wh games was invented by wh fans in an old forum which unfortunately many idiots and famous idiots believed since none of them investigated properly, there was never an agreement or talk about a deal between both companies and the fact that the orcs are green is not a fact to say that they are inspired by wh fantasy since that's what DND is for, besides the mongolian type helmet with horns is not something that GW created for them to be the only ones to use it.
I'm new to Pathfinder and am finding the player book a little overwhelming. Thank you so much for these videos!
Happy to help!
I have watched this video a number of times. I'm am thinking of creating a homebrewed world and this video has given me a lot of inspiration.
Oh thank the gods, another Pathfinder channel. Keep up the good work! Channels like yours help spread the word and show others that games other than D&D exist and can also be fun!
I was worried you were going to skip over how Games Workshop’s design for the orc is basically how all orcs look now. I’m glad to not be disappointed!
No I had to mentioned it because its absolutely true :-)
Ah, I love your videos! Thank you for all your effort and commitment making them!
awesome video! thank you
Great video! Really enjoying these videos so far. Will be waiting for more content!
allways a pleasure to hearyou sharing knwledge, thanks!
Great video, you go above and beyond giving a background on how the pop view of these ancestries came to be.
I always struggle bringing culture to the races in my homebrew, this channel has really helped with that.
8:30 God that's a good freaking cutscene.
Right!
@@TheMythKeeper It's a shame TTRPGs don't really lend themselves to moments like these.
@@DaDunge I have absolutely had moments at TTRPGs that are as epic as this ;-)
@@TheMythKeeperMaybe I've just been unlucky thus far then.
6:42 This cutsceen reminds me of the Devil-Hulk fight, from the game Incredibe Hulk Ultimate Destruction
I wouldn't be surprised if one inspired the other ;-)
Thanks for your hard work brother. Keep the lore spilling out. I hope Pathfinder 2e video games are on the way. And I hope the writing is going to be good.
Just like the Elves video, another splendid analysis of the race across time and media. While I prefer the more grounded, realistic D&D Orks, I can't deny the influence Games Workshop had on the archetype. Blizzard is also a nice touch, I was there 3000 years ago when Orcs & Humans came out, we were hooked instantly. By the way, the death of Grom Hellscream cutscene is IMHO Blizzard's major opus (before they sold their souls to Bobby Kotick, a herald of the Burning Legion).
I wrestled with including that whole cut scene, but ultimately figured I had to. Anyone that lived through it knows how much it shaped our collective perception of what an orc is.
@@TheMythKeeper Yeah, you had to 😊 If you saw it when W3 came out, you still remember the shivers. Even though Blizzard capitalised their "theft" of Games Workshop ideas (Warhammer Fantasy Battle - Warcraft, Warhammer 40,000 - Starcraft), no one can deny that old Blizzard made an amazing setting which can proudly stand on its own feet, especially for the Orks. Their Outland and Azeroth lore is legendary.
A common plot hook I used is one where the party is hired to root out a Orcs in a large forest so that Noble can continue their logging however it's revealed that the Orcs are peaceful only wanting to live in peace and that it was the Noble and their men who struck first.
So the players are stuck between a rock and a hard place the Orcs are living peacefully only striking back if threatened meanwhile the Noble's status means if they attack them the repercussions could be great so the party has to pick a side or figure out a alternative to fighting.
Yes! This kind of non-linear story-telling is really effective and makes RPGs more than a game of killing monsters and collecting loot.
Imho the Warhammer orcs were also inspired by the Green Men of Mars from Edgar Rice Burroughs
Just found your channel, love the content!
Hey there! Welcome to the channel!
Fun fact about Warcraft, you are completely correct. Warcraft and Starcraft were originally going to be Warhammer titles. At the time GW was very tight with their licensing and didn't grant Blizzard the rights, but production had already begun and so rather than scrap concept art they changed the names and story. At least that's the version of the story I've always heard as a former Blizzard fanboy who grew up playing WC2 and 3 and played a decade of World of Warcraft.
I've heard the same story but I couldn't find proof so I didn't mention that in the video.
@@TheMythKeeper yeah, it's probably hearsay, but the space Marines look an awful lot like space Marines lol
@@TheMythKeeper it's really cool that you read your comments. I would love a video on qlippith or kobolds.
@@shmurblurr1459 Kobolds are here: th-cam.com/video/6FghaBXCiPM/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=MythKeeper
Also I have a video on Qlippoths coming in a couple months so keep an eye out.
this is a lie, all that stuff about warcraft and starcraft being wh games was invented by wh fans in an old forum which unfortunately many idiots and famous idiots believed since none of them investigated properly, there was never an agreement or talk about a deal between both companies and the fact that the orcs are green is not a fact to say that they are inspired by wh fantasy since that's what DND is for, besides the mongolian type helmet with horns is not something that GW created for them to be the only ones to use it.
Bright's take on orcs is the best I've seen.
This is the hottest take I've ever seen on the internet.
@@TheMythKeeper Bright did something I'd love to see more of; that being tell a true story with one extreme exaggeration. In Bright is what the urban fantasy angle. That one orc is a cop who filed his tusks down and is ostracized by LA's orc community was the most unique and interesting I'd seen. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim orcs being a distant second place.
Before that was Alien Nation telling the true story of the immigrant experience, but the exaggeration being that they're from space. Then there's District 9 with the true story of refugees in South Africa, except they're also aliens when the real parallel was refugees from Zimbabwe.
@@johnsteiner3417 - Fair enough, I totally see where you're coming from ;-)
I love Orcs, in my fantasy worlds i lean into the mutability of Orcs as a race, and from world to world they vary wildly, from pig headed beast men, to human statured Green people. I find the shifting nature of orcs in nedia and story telling compelling in it's own right, like Orcs grow, progress, and change as we do.
Great editing, sound quality, and content: The Mythkeeper has it all for the Pathfinder lorehound. Have to applaud the effort as I continue through this absolute cornucopia.
Thank you so much for the nice comment!
👏👏👏
Blizzard in fact lost a copyright suit with Games workshop over the similarities between Warhammer and Warcraft. Warcraft was originally intended to be a Warhammer game, but games workshop refused them the license leading to the creation of a unique if some what similar franchise.
this is a lie, all that stuff about warcraft and starcraft being wh games was invented by wh fans in an old forum which unfortunately many idiots and famous idiots believed since none of them investigated properly, there was never an agreement or talk about a deal between both companies and the fact that the orcs are green is not a fact to say that they are inspired by wh fantasy since that's what DND is for, besides the mongolian type helmet with horns is not something that GW created for them to be the only ones to use it.
I know the Vanara have next to nothing, but I think they're neat and I love hearing about them. Also the Orang-Pendek, for obvious reasons.
I am planning to come back to this ancestry series and tackle some other weird ancestries. I've had Suli, Samsaran and Kobolds requested. (Kobolds a lot....)
Awesome video. Just recently found you channel. I would like to see you do a video on the leshy ancestry.
I've done it! Check out my "More Ancestries" video (or possible it is called "EVEN More Ancestries"... I forget)
Watching this gives me idea for a orc character
Great stuff as always! Love your videos as a newcomer to Pathfinder, a question on Ruul the Thunder and Storm God though, are they one of the newer Gods in Orc culture given the Orcs came from below? Or is that not so much an important thing in their pantheon in regards to the old gods of below and newer ones made above?
I'll look into this but I think there isn't an official date in which the orcs started to worship their gods, except that I know Zagresh is one of the earliest ones they worshipped. Its probably a safe assumption that Rull was worshipped later, since lightning doesn't occur underground. I would assume that for a nocturnal people who are light sensitive, both fire and lightning is terrifying, so gods like Rull and Sezelerian reflect the fears of the orcs.
20:57 This guy looks like Ultimate Green Goblin
🤣
Btw, will you ever make videos of the factions of Golarion? I’d love to see a video dedicated to the Pathfinder Society and the Grand Lodge of Absalom.
Eventually! I will get to a series on factions in Pathfinder. Definitely want to do a series on the gods next though.
Man-bear-pig could be a lost ancestor in the evolution of the orc.
You forgot to mention one thing, though being a Pathfinder video, it makes sense:
In The Elder Scrolls, Orcs, while still barbaric and somewhat warlike, were toned down to be more analogous to Native Americans but more peaceful, but they were constantly on the move, never settled for long, had bouts of peaceful coexistence, and spoke more normally.
Also, question: why is Tolkien's idea of Orcs not only being subservient to an evil being, but also twisted versions of other races?
Great Tolkien question! Because in Tolkien's concept only Illuvatar can create life. So when Morgoth tries to do it, he fails, and he ends up corrupting the elves to create the orcs rather than building them whole-cloth from scratch. Someone will probably note that this idea stems from Tolkien's own catholicism. For more details on Tolkien mythology, I did a video when Rings of Power came out on the SIlmarillion which is not Pathfinder, but totally worth a watch.
@@TheMythKeeper I actually didn't finish the question because I was tired when I wrote it. I meant "why don't we see that concept of orcs in other media?"
@@marcusblackwell2372 - I'm not sure honestly. It's hard to tell why some Tolkien things really stuck around in Fantasy and others fell by the wayside.
@@TheMythKeeper Perhaps because it was meant to be religious symbolism and most Fantasy worlds don't want to alienate their demographics
It still makes me upset pathfinder never seemed to get to letting you play a minotaur. They are my favorite race to play.
Sounds like it’s time to homebrew!
Minor errata. D&D 3.0 was released in 2000.
Hey good catch! You win a no-prize! 2003 was 3.5 release date, sorry for the mistake!
Orcs are often in alliance with other monstres humanoids (like goblins and trolls) in other fantasy universes.
How is this in Pathfinder?
Same in Pathfinder, and orcs find common cause with goblins, trolls and bugbears and occasionally but less commonly with ogres and hill giants too
Green really is da best aint it
Kobold! Mek mek! :)
please review pathfinder tales novels
Long live the orc
Was The Lord of the Rings really the first appearance of the word "orc" in English? I recall that in the Hobbit there's a passage that referred to larger goblins as orcs. That may have been added in a later edition though.
You may be right actually, it was probably the Hobbit and not LotR! Regardless, it was definitely Tolkien.
Are orcs related to the Hulk? There's certainly some familial resemblance
Hulk is missing the tusks
@@TheMythKeeper That could be from mixing
They are species if we use correct phrases. Might as well say race
Hello, can you tell me which map that is at 0:47 min into the video.
Thanks
I really wish I knew where I found that ulra-high-res map, but I've not been able to find it in a few years, so whomever initially posted it must have taken it down. I did upload a version of it (slightly lower res because of imgur limits). The elf-gates are marked on this version of the map: imgur.com/gallery/gIguRr4
Hope that's okay!
@@TheMythKeeper Thanks.... And your Videos are really very enjoyable to watch.
What book is the Kharmaja tribe information from?
Transparently its been ages now since I made this video, but I strongly suspect it was from here: paizo.com/products/btpy9aue?Pathfinder-Campaign-Setting-Belkzen-Hold-of-the-Orc-Hordes
@@TheMythKeeper Cool, thank you! Your channel has been super helpful as I switch from all homebrew in PF1 to using Golarion in PF2.
I had a similar question about the Nanut tribe? I can’t find anything about them in the Wiki or the archives. Does this mean there is a whole other level of pathfinder lore for me to discover??
Once again you need a shield to keep from beating your mic to death with your air.
Like I said, better in later videos! Sorry!
Warcraft wasn't inspired by warhammer, it is warhammer. The first game was going to be a warhammer game but somehow the brand deal didn't go trough and blizzard just changed the name and shipped it.
I've heard this too, but I can't find enough supporting evidence from reliable sources when I put this together to feel comfortable claiming that.
this is a lie, all that stuff about warcraft and starcraft being wh games was invented by wh fans in an old forum which unfortunately many idiots and famous idiots believed since none of them investigated properly, there was never an agreement or talk about a deal between both companies and the fact that the orcs are green is not a fact to say that they are inspired by wh fantasy since that's what DND is for, besides the mongolian type helmet with horns is not something that GW created for them to be the only ones to use it.
Maybe it is because I am autistic and am used to getting treated with suspicion, anger or outright hatred just for not being the norm. But I love playing Orcs, dragonborn and tieflings.
Don't play 0athfimder, love you man xxx
Kobolds 🤪
Page 30: www.pdf-archive.com/2016/12/06/elysium-nebula-player-guide/
Just something I wrote in college that has kobolds in it.
@@TheMythKeeper well I was wanting a video I got like probably three or four Kobold books downloaded from Pathfinder and the third party people they have on their site 🤪
@@thomasrobson6370 😅
@@TheMythKeeper pathfinder Kobold sources that I have are, AdvancedRaces6KoboldsPFRPGPDF, PathfinderPlayerCompanionKoboldsOfGolarionPFRPGPDF, PathfinderRoleplayingGameAdvancedRaceGuideOGLPDF-Lite-OneFilePerChapter. any how "story telling" videos are better than printed info.
it's a good video you made, only that saying that warcraft orcs are inspired by fantasy I find it a mistake since its direct inspiration would come from DND and lord of the rings, Sam didier mentioned in an interview that in his team they had fans of DND and lotr, besides that lie that "it was going to be a wh game" is pure bullshit, nothing more than a famous old fake forum of wh fans that gave a superficial opinion without doing a correct investigation of the matter to which thousands of fools and famous fools believed and continue spreading the lie. I say so since most of them are the ones who did not investigate the matter properly and only about 10% of the fandom knows that this argument is wrong.
Crucially though the orcs in Warcraft look stylistically a lot more like WHF orcs than both LotR and D&D orcs though. The green skin and big tusks means they were at least aware of what the folks at Games Workshop were doing. (BTW, I also dont' believe the story that it was originally a WHF game but the license fell through.)
@@TheMythKeeper if you refer stylistically to a mongolian aesthetic with horns and those clothes let me tell you that this is not something unique to wh man, it is free for all and it would be idiotic to assume it even that way, now the fact that they use axes, spears or maces does not make it something wh aesthetically speaking, now do not know but there are images of the orcs of dnd with fangs and the color theme is something absurd to think to begin with.
Prefer the AD&D Orc reproduction rules.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the videos, but this getting ridiculous. Orcs are evil and everyone is trying to make them out as Star Trek Orion race with tusks. What’s next? Can I play a Beholder? Kobold sounds interesting.
See, I totally don't feel this way. Orc is a make-believe creature- they can be as evil or not evil as you choose to make them.
Tolkien's orcs are probably by favorite. In my opinion making orcs as smart and strong as other races defeats the point of them being hordes and using overwhelming numbers in battle. I also think its stupid to have creatures that literally look like demons and relish in causing pain and destruction be "good". Tolkien became uncomfortable with the orcs being completely evil and irredeemable because of his Catholicism but he never actually changed them, just their origins.