That there are people who would wish someone death, rape or other abuse simply for stating there opinion is terrifying. Imagine how awful an individual that must be to so violently hate someone for disagreeing with them or voicing a thought that does not match with theirs. Claudia never attacks anybody, she states her own views in a calm, composed manner, and yet she gets these kinds of responses that are absolutely disgusting and, in my opinion, quite terrifying as you don't know if one of them might someday act on their words.
You are just the most wonderful person. I can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like going through comments like that. Thank you for using your platform the way you do.
Those people have nothing but ad hominem/ personal attacks. There was nothing addressing her actual arguments just personal insults. That's a logical fallacy. You do not look smart if you resort to logical fallacies.
Those comments are ridiculous & juvenile You are right & they should be called out The juvenile comments are to get a reaction from other people on the comment section. Most don't think that the content creator even reads all their comments. Perhaps content creators should fight back by exposing the usernames of the most vile comments to show that you actually are reading your comments & don't appreciate personal attacks
i remember our conversation when i made my response to you a year or so ago. it was refreshing to hear you found it interesting/funny or whatever and just going back and forth with you about how important it is for everyone to put their opinions on the internet. edit: holy fuck these comments are E D G Y hearing you read them in your posh accent is hilarious i'm glad you're not taking them seriously.
Thanks Shoe. I really appreciate that, and also I'm so glad people like you exist online, because even if we don't always agree, I think we prove that women aren't some monolith! xxx
When people can't think of logical responses to disagreements, that is where the tearing down of looks and slings of hoping you get abused come in. I've been a subscriber of yours for a while and it's amazing to see how you've grown and can just brush these comments off. You're amazing, Claudia.
And when we CAN think of logical responses, we make thousands and thousands of videos detailing those logical responses and you feminists.... ignore them and just keep repeating the same stuff.
On a lighter note anyone know if Claudia Boleyn is going to do the occasional episode summaries on Season 7 Game of Thrones which is coming soon July 2017 ???? I respect someone who knows about UK history that comments on the parallels it has with the fantasy show.
I can't get my head around the comments you get. You always explain your points in the clearest way as well as respectfully, so it's beyond painful watching how people can't return the courtesy. Or, instead, put their energy into making decent counter arguments. You're encouraging healthy dialogue, and that should never stop! Keep making awesome videos!
Is it really that hard to understand? The internet is a place where people from all around the world pool together and interact with one another. The world is full of idiots, assholes and people that generally enjoy pushing other people's buttons. There are also people that simply do not have anything constructive to say, perhaps because they are not particularly good at formulating and expressing their thoughts and opinions, because there's too much they disagree with in the video for them to take on in a single comment, or perhaps it's simply how they are as people. If you are someone on the internet who draw attention from a lot of people it is actually impossible for these people to not include these people I described previously, which I generally tend to call trolls. If all people that disagreed with her arguments and positions were like these comments she cherrypicked in this video it would be more valid for you to not understand, but that does not seem to be the case. Someone else in the comments of this video showed examples of comments she has recieved found with a quick look that were actually interested in engaging in civil conversation.
honestly it's hard to imagine what is going on in these people's head for leaving that sort of comments... I know that you said you're able to deal with these things but I hope that all the nice comments you get still kinda counter balance this crap On that note: As always, a brilliant video with great point, spoken with eloquence and you look absolutely lovely
I'd state those comments are just easy ways to attack ideas they dislike. It takes more energy to listen and debate than to just attack. It seems to me, most of the population doesn't have the energy to spend on these things and thus just attack the ideas with these lazy attacks.
I laughed aloud a few times as you were reading the comments out. My theory is that they are trying to get you to lose your temper and then they can go "look, she's just an angry irrational woman". My parents would call them 'wind up merchants'. Speaking of them, my mum watched your video on the election and said "I agree with this lady. It's nice to see young people with an opinion".
Typical feminist, cherry pick all the hateful comments to claim victim status. Maybe those 'academics' could respond to the more robust anti-feminist arguments instead.
Claudia I'm so sorry you have to go through this, ftr I think your toxic masculinity video is one of the best you've ever done and I really enjoy hearing your opinions on all different topics. We don't all have to agree, especially on such hot button issues, but there is a level of mutual respect and decency that one would assume we all understand...evidently not..anyway, sending lots of love
Oh my God Claudia!! WTF?!!! The way you read the comments had me laughing so hard. What is wrong with these people?!!! I had a guy tell me on one of my YT videos that I should be ground in to dog food! I literally laughed for days. Do these people realise how fkg ridiculous they sound?! Lol. I love your videos and you are beautiful by the way! And the way u read their comments just made me love you more!! xxx
All these pissed off men who made those comments are literally the definition of toxic masculinity. And anyone who says that someone should be raped for their opinions need to be put in jail: those are rapists and future rapists.
Ohhh, the toxic masculinity video... yeah, the vitriol you got was RIDICULOUSLY disproportionate. I haven't watched it in a while, but I seem to remember that it was a perfectly innocent explanation of the term, and people willfully misinterpreted you left and right because the term is "toxic masculinity". It was really frustrating to see, because I didn't (and still don't) understand why people wouldn't just hear you out. I'm glad you're at a point where the harassment doesn't get to you -- I don't think you should have to have been driven to that point in the first place, but if you have to be there, I'm glad you're not suffering.
When people can't debate and are losing an argument they believe the next best option is to bully and threaten and harass with personal attacks. I wonder how they would feel if a member of their family was being treated in this way way. It's just an opinion people.
If you believe you have something valid to say then why not show your face? Because it is easier to throw abuse and threaten when no one can see you. Brave debating.
See, that's the only thing people should do about arseholes on the internet. That's why they say not to feed the trolls. I reckon part of the reason why we're seeing such a huge surge in the "alt right" is because we as a culture have been feeding trolls and giving them reason to call the left "triggered". Talking policy instead of making stuff about our egoes kills this toxic culture that we've made for ourselves.
What's great is how she goes about dealing with them. Usually people just ignore trolls or get really upset over it - I think it's amazing to see someone show them just how ridiculous they are - and that there's basically no point to what they're doing.
Not really, but it's how you deal with it that matters. I think people are too reactive to stuff on the internet and to take the time to reflect on how you might respond to that criticism is sadly something that too many people lack. Personally I have few inhibitions to what I say online. Boobies.
NerdyMuch, I don't think it's so much exposing these people for their ridiculousness that matters so much as it is her composure. She's not on the defensive nor is she outright attacking people. She's just being herself and seemingly not losing any sleep over it. And she does all this while remaining quite rational and generally being quite fair to all sides of the debate. You gotta give people credit for being able to detach their ego from these matters. It's stupidly easy to get butthurt because someone called you a poop head.
The fact that you laughed in the face of these disgusting comments just shows what a strong woman you are. I am so grateful I have such a strong female influence in my life (My mum, my aunties and my cousins). You are one of my favourite TH-camrs. As I said before, your videos about depression and mental health have helped me a lot. So keep your head up high Claudia, you're a legend. xxx
Love how all these men who have likely never put makeup on anything, and likely know nothing about it, are criticizing your makeup. As a makeup artist, your makeup is awesome. I don't understand these people. You'd think they'd have something better to do with their day than leave pointless hateful comments on your videos.
Clearly eliminating the competition. But seriously, I do know guys that do drag and sometimes they go for subtler make up. Dunno why. I'm a lassie and I don't wear make up so I don't get the "politics" over it. Seems pretty silly.
I commend you for not letting this stuff get to you. I've only had one video where I had to turn off comments (I don't get many views) but I was so upset, I was in tears.
Claudia, while I mostly agree with you, I have to disagree with the fact that it is always wrong to call someone out in a less than respectful way. I'm a disabled WoC in the U.S. who has been a victim of sexual assault. If making fun of Trump's hairstyle gives me a laugh in a political arena that is increasingly hostile to my very existence, I don't think that's wrong. Expecting marginalized groups to "go high" when we're consistently harassed for our very existence, when our healthcare is taken away, when we're assaulted, when we're being governed by someone who brags about assault...it's tone policing and unfair. Obviously there are certain things (like making fun of someone for their race, or calling conservative women sexist names, fat-shaming) that are counterproductive in discourse, because they reinforce the very hierarchies we are trying to dismantle. However, laughing at the ridiculousness of hateful people by mocking some of their more superficial ridiculous choices, like wearing ridiculous amounts of self tanner, or having a proclivity to tween nonsense in the middle of the night, is not equivalent to the harassment, abuses, and assaults that marginalized communities face.
Yea, too many people will stoop to assuming the worst of another person based on a first glance. honestly neither side is better off in that regard - substitute the troll and denigrating comments with accusations of racism, sexism, etc. (all of which are heavily moral judgments) and you get the sjw ideologues' version of it. 🙆 I just can't..
I became an avid viewer of your channel around three years ago when I was only 13 years old and I honestly credit you with the fact that I am a feminist and am so educated and interested in social justice issues today. Your toxic masculinity video is one of my favourite ones you have ever made and it, just like many of your other videos, really opened my mind on such an important topic. I hope you know that even though you get appalling hate sometimes there are people all over the world whose lives and opinions you have seriously changed.
I've never understood why any of these sorts of people comment nasty things like that. I always hope people will be civil and say what they don't agree with but most of the time they simply make horrible comments about appearance. I've only been subscribed to you for about a month or so but you're one of the most lovely and well-spoken individuals I've ever had the pleasure of watching! As usual, you handled all this beautifully! I'm glad none of the senseless hate is getting to you.
I had a horrified smile on my face through this. On the one hand, the way you read these was hilarious but on the other, what the hell is wrong with people?! They must have sad, small, lonely lives to get a kick out of some of the stuff they were saying to you. I can't believe there were so many as well, this really is a huge problem and pretty sickening. Also, you are really beautiful, I can't believe how many 'ugly' comments people were throwing about, clearly they have a problem with their own self esteem if they're so desperately trying to bring down yours. Maybe they should step back and take a look at their own lives first before judging another.
Claudia I have always loved your perspective and feel that you are very even and fair about your observations. I like how you explain things and you never personally attack people, you just explain why you think certain things are harmful or negative. It's terrible people were saying such horrible things. I'm sorry, people are awful and when they have nothing productive to say they just resort to personal attacks and that is not ok. Why can't we all just disagree with each other in a respectful way?
Claudia: I support response videos, debates, and free speech You people in the comments: So...what you're saying is......you want to take my free speech?!?!?!?!
There's absolutely no reason to attack someone personally in a debate, if you have a good, substantial argument then it will hold up in a debate and there's absolutely no reason to be nasty
who.. says these things.. i really thought those comments would't upset me THAT much, but some of those (esp. mental health & sexual assault related) made me feel ill.
I am not going to lie. It really hurt to hear that you receive those kind of messages. I have also personally received disgusting messages as well. I am always baffled at the complete lack of any argument in those kind of comments. I can only interpret it was they just didn't like hearing what I have said and it must have struck a nerve because why else would they react so emotionally and illogically? Also, the way people have misunderstood the concept of freedom of speech always never fail to baffle me. It's about government censorship not someone blocking you from their blog lmfao
I really shouldn't be laughing at this but the way you read this is wonderful :p Anyway, you're very strong for making videos in spite of the horrid messages you receive.
People wanna be arseholes for the sake of just being arseholes. They want to get some kind of reaction out of you. Keep going strong Claudia, don't give them the time of day.
Honestly you're so lovely. You've helped me out so much with your videos, since I have terrible anxiety and like no self esteem. I hate it that people have commented things like that, but I'm so glad you're able to look past them. Plus I love your makeup :)
I don't know if you'll ever even read this, but your videos have helped me in more ways than I can ever say. I am sorry for these comments that you face.
Only about a third of the way through, and not an anti-feminist or anything like that, but just in reference to your initial explanation of toxic masculinity being enforced masculinity, would that in itself not make a better/less divisive label? A lot of antis seem to twinge at the term in the same way feminists sometimes do towards feminazi, but I haven't personally seen any antis that are in favour of toxic masculinity once the concept is explained - just the term. In that case, would it not be more constructive to relabel toxic masculinity as enforced masculinity so we can have a more productive dialogue? That being said, from the first few comments you've read, those are some vile responses and don't seem proportionate to the video by any means. Some people are really shit.
I think that's an interesting idea, but there's also part of me that thinks we shouldn't have to make the label more palatable in order for the concept to be heard, understood, and discussed. I'm not a man and I've never really identified with the word "masculine", so I can't say how seeing "toxic masculinity" as a man or masculine person would affect me on a visceral level, but I think the concept absolutely makes sense as NOT an attack on masculinity once it's explained. I think at the core, there's an argument to be made that relabeling "toxic masculinity" as "enforced masculinity" is just another way to make feminism about men and catering to men's feelings, and that having constant discussion and debate over the term detracts from the discussions and debates we need to be having about the concept itself. (All that said, I don't know exactly where I stand on what I've just said. That's just me trying to see the other side of what you've put forth.)
+ramywiles I hear where you're coming from. I'm a guy and never been particularly bothered by the label, but I can see that some might because they always seem to stumble at the whole "I'm not meaning men as a whole when I use this term, just this version of being a man" point and shut out stuff beyond that. For those men who do subscribe to that mindset, they take it personally because you're calling their beliefs and actions into question. I think all of this partly grows out of the "haters gonna hate" mindset from the last few years. This attitude of "any criticism is inherently hating" is dangerous since it often makes people avoid constructive criticism as well as harassment, so we all lock ourselves more into our belief systems and don't let them be challenged. A lot of the men who do get offended by it often claim to subscribe to the "ultra freedom" mentalities as well - freedom to say whatever they want, however abhorrent that may be - so I think if we were to frame the concept in those terms, we might make more headway. If they were to think enforcing a hyper-masculine attitude impinged on personal freedoms of other men, they might have less virulent opposition to it's criticism. It's like how one of the best way to convince conservatives about renewable energy is to frame it in terms of the free market (eg: "you're being unfair in the market to renewables if you subsidise fossil fuels," "you're killing off competition from the small businesses standing up to big bad oil," etc.). It's all about finding the angle that will resonate most with the target audience. A much more crass and nasty comparison might be how white supremacists and neo-nazis have somehow managed to couch their ideas in this attitude of "oh no no, we're just white nationalists" - people get on board because they think they're not tied to objectionable language and that makes it easier for them to fall into the ideologies. Again, this is a totally awful and abominable comparison, but I'm just trying to highlight how language makes a difference to people who might otherwise listen. That said, I do understand the worries about getting distracted by terminology rather than content. I understand not wanting to sanitise a concept to make it nicer for objectors (obviously not as directly as someone who's faced with basically having to make their existence and instincts more palatable a lot of the time), but I do worry sometimes that if we are so rigid on minor points like terminology, we lose the larger battles (and at the moment, the terminology seems to be the tripping point that stops a lot of antis before they get to the content).
Dima - "I haven't personally seen any antis that are in favour of toxic masculinity once the concept is explained - just the term." Did you write this correctly? It seems to me you meant "against" instead of "favour." Just based on the term "toxic masculinity," it comes off as there are parts of masculinity that are wrong and therefore there are parts of men that are wrong. So, an attack on men from feminists, which is a common perception from the anti and even MGTOW groups.
"For those who do subscribe to that mindset, they take it personally because you're calling their beliefs and actions into question" -- This actually makes for a good one-sentence summary of a video series (that you might have heard of, might not) called Why Are You So Angry? by Innuendo Studios. The entire point is that there are people on the other end of the argument whose views are so wrapped up in their own personal morality and inherent goodness or badness as a person that they will automatically bristle at terms, concepts, groups of people, etc. that don't immediately assure them that they're good. It's a really good series that I highly recommend and try to keep in mind, so yes, I definitely see your point here. "It's all about finding the angle that will resonate most with the target audience" -- TOTALLY see where you're coming from here, as well as on your point about the "ultra freedom" types, because this is more or less where I myself am coming from and how I approach any given conversation to do with politics or feminism. I think the question at that point is whether the movement as a whole and/or everyone within it should be obligated to adopt that mindset. I think there's a great case to be made for approaching discussions with compassion and as deep and nuanced an understanding of the other side's points and origins as possible, and I will always personally advocate for that approach, but I think others would make the case that it's either 1) not an equal effort on both parts to mutually understand each other or 2) sliding into dangerous territory for one side to make concessions to the other -- in line with what you said about "having to make [one's] existence and instincts more palatable". I personally feel the first but press on anyway in the hopes that maybe it will eventually become mutual, and apart from not being a man, I have a substantial amount of identity-related privilege, so the second is not really my argument to make.
+James J If you'd read my comments, you'd see we're in agreement over the term coming off as an attack to some men who take it personally. To clarify, I mean they're not pro-concept once they get past being against the term (probably didn't word it well enough). When you ask them "so do you believe men who aren't hypermasculine bros should be ridiculed? aren't you infringing their freedom to be whoever they want to be?", reasonable antis tend to come to "well no, I'm not for telling someone how they should be, that's against freedom of expression" (again though, that's if they're reasonable). Of course there's the "no, men who aren't chock full of testosterone are pussies, cucks and betamales" brigade, but tbh, they're pretty much trolls and aren't willing (or perhaps able) to engage in discussions in the first place. But if the term were "enforced masculinity," I think you'd get the antis who're obsessed with freedom and debating to actually look at the issue rather than obsessing over the label.
As someone who kind of stands in the center position in the debate (I agree with the feminist side on some issues and agree with the anti side on others), I must really say thank you for standing up for reasonable debate, as I have been blocked/insulted by "members" of both sides despite always trying to take a respectful, idea-based approach. Genuine question though: Since you spoke about women online in particular, is it correct that women receive more of those vile comments when voicing their opinions online/do we have numbers for this sort of thing? I do assume that they different for sure (such as involving "get back to the kitchen" etc.), but I have the perception everyone with an opinion online will get some rather nasty comments from angry dissidents of this sort.
Grael949 legit same in terms of the center-y position, though I witness more powerful irrationality on the left and it does push me away from that, but succumbing to RWA is nowhere near my plans either lol. it's authoritarianism as a whole I have a problem with - and the left is dominated by it nowadays even more than the right, which is SUCH a strange statement to utter, but there it is. but anyways, I have had the same observations as you: the nature of the trolling may be different given the particular target, but it's primarily determined by opening one's mouth about anything publically.
Hey Claudia! Big fan of yours, and I think the work that you do online is really fantastic, keep it up! Here's a bit of insight from my personal experience and feelings as to where some of the hateful things people post online come from. I think it comes from a place of misery, low self esteem and insecurity. I think it comes from an inability (often found in males) to express emotions which are then bottled up until they can be spewed online knowing that there will be no consequences. When men go through life not being able to express their feelings excepting anger, it leads to far more hatred than would otherwise be expected, especially towards women.
TY for actually discussing your view, since many people on both sides of "left/right" issues (which I find distasteful) have a tendency to be rather emotional/hyperstatistical. I personally have conservative values so no doubt you and I would butt heads over numerous topics but for a change I believe it would be a refreshing and challenging exchange for both of us. Unfortunately the internet, as I predicted in my youth, caters mostly to lowest common denominator exchanges...safe distance from repercussion without oversite (by that I mean expectation or demand of civility) tends to do that. Also, the severe lack of fact checking that leads to platitudes of superiority can be rather choking at times. Passionate factual dialogue has become rather rare since the rampant advent of mass social media, to the detriment of society as a whole. And the mainstream media does little to encourage social dignity... but that's another fact of the times that... Anyway, I wanted to say I find your deportment and features rather fetching (so apparently many of your detractors are simply spiteful nits, or perhaps there's a video of you in a less favorable condition that I've missed...(which I doubt). But that's all subjective drivel so who cares really. I'd like to know your opinion of the Antifa/blm/feminist/etc. movements being funded by George Soros. I think there are too many people with legitimate issues being manipulated by his network of shady funding and interests (as he did in the Ukraine) and I can't understand why so many on the left are falling into his machinations of social decay. I'd be outraged to learn that my progressive movement was being co-opted in such a manner by a person who literally makes billions destabilizing and creating harm at the risk and expense of others...(in the form of permanent police records, incarceration/litigation fines, etc...). I'll send you my e-mail soon, should you desire to respond, HuGGz and TY for your more dignified (adult) attitude.
I'm 2 minutes in your video and let me just say, you have earned all my respect. Keeping your comments and ratings up despite harassment is amazing, and something only a strong person can do.
You're probably one of the most intelligent social justice advocates on this website. I've tried to find channels in the past that talk about social justice without being overly arrogant or sarcastic, but it's much easier said than done. Props to you for being so chill
I watched this video after Shoe0nhead posted it to her twitter and I have to say your rational response to all this is really fucking refreshing. Your approach to this entire situation and the idea of having a healthy open debate was great to hear. Probably an odd episode to gain a subscriber from but I'm now looking forward to watching your older videos to hear your opinions because the way you presented your ideas in this video was very interesting. It's a shame people have to resort to personal attacks when they disagree with people and shows a lack of understanding of the subject at hand. I've often thought people that resort to personal attacks often don't actually care about the content of a video and instead of watching it and forming their own opinion and arguments they decide "it's from the other side" and so attack. I always think of a quote from Musashi Miyomoto's Book Of Five Rings, "If you merely read this book you will not reach the Way of strategy. Absorb the things written in this book. Do not just read, memorise or imitate, but so that you realise the principle from within your own heart study hard to absorb these things into your body." Reading that made me realise that every time you hear someone's opinion or are taught something you should not just accept it into your own mind but instead treat each thought and opinion as if you yourself had thought of it, helping you better understand someone's path of thought. I'll stop rambling now, good video and I look forward to hearing your opinions on other matters as well
This should be promoted as a Must Watch video. I think everyone should be able to express their opinions, and they should be viewed as individuals when making statements. Attributing negative comments to someone else shouldn't be done though. They may say the same general or even exactly same thing, but that removes individual responsibility from anyone who would parrot them. I believe people should be held accountable for what they say, be able to support/defend it and accept responsibility for any consequences that come from it. I am not saying to prosecute through law, as that impedes ones right to free speech, I am saying that anything that comes from spouting garbage is fair play. It isn't also important to bring comedy into the idea, while best left to the professionals, many say things thinking they are funny & should be told flat out that they failed, or simply ignored. The concept of "don't feed the trolls" is absolutely valid and applicable to all sides. I applaud your ability to not let garbage comments bother you, and see them for what they are...garbage. I for one appreciate when someone uses name calling as a way to hold an argument, it lets me know they have no facts which to help them make their case & are going to be easily dismissed. Meh, rambling......well made video, gained a subscriber!
I love how you deal with hate. It's brilliant and you make the people look as stupid as they are. Your videos are brilliant also soggy toast? really? PLEASE COME UP WITH A BETTER INSULT
This is absolutely disgusting. So vile. These people are not understanding that they could so easily argue a point respectively but instead they prove how right you are by being misogynistic arseholes. And the things they said about rape and being beaten to quieten you down. I have no words for how utterly disgraceful that is. Love you Claudia, you’re such an intelligent woman, you’re beautiful and I have so much respect for you.
Those comments were absolutely revolting but well done for laughing about it and not letting them affect you too much! It's sad really- bullies and haters have such a bad life they feel the need to dish out insults to strangers online! Love your videos Claudia :-)
Like what you've done with your hair. Infinitely more importantly, I like your videos and the amount of thought and perception you put into them. Sad that there are people like that out there and I hope that one day they'll find more meaningful things to do with their lives. Who knows, maybe you'll inspire them.
claudia if they're reacting like this you're clearly doing something right ❤️️ not excusing the behaviour just admiring how eloquent and succint you are while they appear like whiny pisslords
I originally had my own disagreements with your toxic masculinity video which were expressed in Undoomed's response video (I'm assuming that's the response you're talking about), but after watching this video it seems like you've put some more context into your opinions, and I agree with you more for it. I 100% agree with you when you say that people shouldn't sling insults at each other. People express their opinions from their subjective point of view, so the way in which individual people see the world is going to be different from person to person. It seems like alot of the comments you read came from anti-feminists, who do make some valid criticisms of feminism, but when you get individuals from that group unironically saying things like "Get back in the kitchen." all they're actually doing is validating feminism, which is counter-productive to their own cause.
Thanks for the comment. I am working on a response to the points made in the Undoomed video, but it's pretty long so please bear with me! I feel like I was misunderstood/misrepresented in a lot of ways and I want to make my views clearer. xxx
Renata Vine oh yeah it absolutely is trolling and is done purely to get a reaction, and it's funny when you're like 13, but when you get to a certain point the whole "HURR DURR DON'T FEED THE TROLLS, DID I HURT YOUR FEE FEES? LOL SO BUTT FRUSTRATED" thing just gets old and boring, especially when people realise that the reaction is what the trolls are looking for. That's why people find things like Celebrities Read Mean Tweets funny, because noone cares what some asshole on the Internet says about them anymore, and the joke ends up being on the trolls themselves.
Think some of the people in this comment section are submitting entries for your next theatrical read. I think you are very well spoken. And I appreciate how you are open to all comments on your videos.
People become real heroes while hiding behind the anonymity of their internet comment sections, their parents must be so proud. Meanwhile, you do drag on longer than my younger brother, it takes you forever to get to the point and you create 5 new unrelated points during the trip. XD This video reminds me of a paperlilies video from like 2006, a name nobody knows anymore these days, she also read hater comments and it was just as hilarious.
The reason people feel free to write whatever they want is the anonymity of the internet(obviously) and also the lack of consequence. When you hurl vitriol at someone in person you can instantly see the effect and you can be called into account for it or ever suffer legal consequences if any of the physical threats made here would've actually been said or god forbid actually acted upon. But when you randomly express all of your hate to a screen and never see the effect, you are free to do that as much as you like because you have released some of the venom you have inside out into the world without consequence, without knowing the effect it might have on someone. When you insult someone in person you can see the effect it has on them, you can see the hurt that you cause and for many of these people (unfortunately not nearly close to enough) saying these stuff without hiding behind a computer would be impossible.
This is an awesome video, and I thank you for discouraging looking at political opponents as enemies. It is INCREDIBLY easy to attack people on a personal level or view them as the human embodiment of evil (I've done the latter myself). Thanks for being so open-minded.
First of all, you're like one of the most beautiful people on the planet and second of all, your makeup is always on point so idk what those people were talking about 😂
It's laughable to think that people would actually spend the time to leave such a vile and pointless comment, what's the endgame they are going for here?
Honestly, I don't think people making comments like that usually that *have* an "intention". I think they're mostly just kind of instinctively acting out, in some kind of 'reptile brain' sort of way; you said *something* in your video that hit them on some personal, emotional, level, so they just instinctively spew out the most obnoxious shit that pops into their pointy little head in the moment. That or (and I'm not trying to be dismissive here; I don't think it reduces the fucked-up-ness of what they say) just old-fashioned trolling; an adolescent urge to say something deeply offensive, just in the hope it gets a rise; that it'll "trigger" you. The internet has a way of making idiots want to say stupid shit, because... because they're idiots? i guess? idk (Again, I hope this doesn't seem dismissive...) I really wouldn't stress about these twits. I think this video is a good response; the *last* thing you want to do is let these dickheads think they're getting to you. Laughing at them and ridiculing them is good, imo. btw not trying to sound cringey, but the more of your videos I watch, the more I respect you. You seem like a very reasonable, consistent, admirable person.
The reason for you getting hate is probably because they are immature people that spend way too much time on the internet, and since there's so much sarcasm they have gotten a bit detached from how to interact, and it's a way to be enabled to get a laugh out of raiding an old video. It's just too bad that they don't realize that it's only making them look like immature children and giving you a place to point at, where you can say "They are just immature, let's not bother." and now they have made your point of view look more reasonable and their side too look like petty whining. Btw I love your approach to this, since you don't get emotional or personal, you just let them embarrass themselves by simply reading their comments out loud.
Glad you mentioned how you sometimes catch yourself laughing at posts making fun of Trump's appearance. I think that's the best way we can try and understand why people leave such vile comments on feminist channels. It frustrates me a little every time I see someone make a joke about Trump looking orange, or having silly hair, because really by attacking his appearance instead of opinions/policies, you're just discrediting yourself, and resorting to the same useless tactics as the trolls. Also I think my favourites were "you look like a hammerhead shark," and the one about your flat, featureless, frying-pan-like face. Really made me laugh.
I don't identify with the label "feminist", I don't think I ever will, there's just too much stuff I disagree with feminists about. However, people like those commentators make me avoid the term "anti-SJW" or "anti-feminist" too. No matter how much I disagree with someone I've never had the desire to threaten them. Even if you really dislike someone and they are being really unpleasant surely it's more rewarding to poke holes in their logic and embarrass them that way than to outright call them names and be nasty to them.
"Your face is like the back of frying pan, flat and featureless." Oh my gosh I am sorry but I found this comment so funny that I had to stop the video I was laughing so hard. I love that this person a. Thought of this insult and b. Put it out probably thinking it was TERRIBLY insulting
I am sure I hurt more than you did when you received those comments Claudia. Such jerks in this world. They would need to be put in place... I understand 200% why you say you wished there were more nice people in other videos!
This happens to pretty much everyone I know who takes positions on contentious political issues on the internet (and often in real life too). I don't really see what the point is in publicising it though? It comes across as an attempt to imply your positions are therefore more correct, on account of a poor opposition. Which doesn't necessarily follow at all. In some cases it's even the exact opposite.
Although I may not be on the same political/social spectrum as yourself I do appreciate keeping the comments open for legitimate feedback minus the trolls of course. PS. Thank you for the ASMR videos as well, they are very well done.
Hate Speech and Hate Crimes are incredibly subjective. Why should we worry that someone attacked a black person? Should we not just say 'Holy shit they assaulted someone' to me when I hear 'Hate Crime' it makes it sound like people are making it more about Race and less about the fact that another human being was just assaulted or attacked.
So, a disclaimer before I go on a rant here: I'm a guy, non feminist, and I put off watching your video on Toxic Masculinity for most of the year. (I'd watched two others before finding your channel, and wanted to watch your earlier videos to understand where you were coming from before looking at your specific brand of that idea.) This isn't especially something I would demand feminists know, but if you want to know where the anger of that crowd stems from... I either want to think, or am scared to think, that this phenomenon can be traced back to the roots of TH-cam's brand of anti-feminism. ...In 2009, 10, 11 or what ever the New Atheists were all over TH-cam / the internet. Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, what have you as major figures. And Hitchens was always talking about freedom of speech as the be-all and end-all of everything, nothing should be off limits, speech is the cure for religion, what have you. And he was a bit imfamous for using freedom of speech as an excuse for regular old bullying. And then Elevatorgate happened. (June 2011) Social media drama, what ever you want to call it, it split all of us apart. And turned gender issues as a whole into something controversial for a bunch of people who hadn't cared much before. I'm not sure how much of this you, or any of the other viewers here, know of the history of Elevatorgate. If you're morbidly curious, "Freethought Kampala" has an article called "Elevatorgate" on the subject. Might only be an afternoon between reading that and the blogs and vlogs linked. I suspect... that that was the... flashpoint. Feminism became scary for a lot of New Atheists. Feminism was the monster walking down from the mountains to raid our home on the internet. Feminism was the Goliath that we "David" had to slay, or we would loose everything we had as a movement. I think this was the beginning of... the very branch of anti-feminism you and I see before us today. TH-cam anti-feminism and Atheism+ came together (Atheism + Feminism), as the opposite of the anti-feminist New Atheists... And Atheism+ became the enemy. I suspect that's where a lot of that community became quite embattled. I remember thinking to myself at the time, nobody was talking this through, nobody was listening, not of the big names at least... So the rest of us need to have this out ourselves. The rest of us need to figure out everything that was in dispute, or the difference wasn't going to be solved. By the sound of it, many (small name) people instead picked up a trench-warfare attitude. Either we (anti)feminists just beat the other side down, or this problem isn't going away. And that may well be how Atheism+ and the anti's had it out, at each other for the next two years. Atheism+ lost, the antis stuck around. The entire time, many of the antis would say that they were just exercising freedom of speech in their disagreement with feminism. There were claims (which I cannot now place) of Atheism+ being censorious. That they had to protect the right to say anything not explicitly feminist. Now, some speculation to support my next point. Thinking back to a reddit comment I read a few weeks back (but don't know how to find again); The internet as a whole is absolutely chock full of social movements. They seem to have an easier time gaining momentum and support here than in person. People with pent up frustration about some problem or another can all get together here. Lots of niche issues that nobody had heard of before the internet are now regular parlance for some people. And people can point to anyone, anywhere doing or saying some little thing that they don't like, or is part of what they view the problem as. And that's enabled many movements, many calls for change, and led many more people into some form of activism culture. And it's put many more people on the receiving end of activism than before. The more toxic aspects of activism, activism culture, call-out culture, etc., are more obvious to many than they had been. And as this comment said (guessed?), the internet pretty much reached the saturation point for social movements, for social awareness. There were a lot of people frustrated, for lots of reasons. Some good, some petty, some bigoted. Sometimes just resentful that issues completely disconnected from them were (perceived as) blamed on them, or just pushed to people who wanted to talk about other things. This comment painted GamerGate as the first-come-first-serve outlet to much of that frustration... But the New Atheists may have been that first. People who were frustrated with feminists, what ever the reason, found an outlet. And then GamerGate started, a few years later, and just dragged everybody else into the ring. The beefs people have with 'Social Justice Warriors', sounds like this kind of frustration with activist culture, with social awareness becoming saturated in some circles, and GamerGate tapped into opposition to all of it. And the New Atheist anti-feminists were still there, still a place to vent about feminists. I guess it makes sense they joined forces. That would be my guess where this subculture is coming from. And don't get me wrong, those comments listed are not at all proportionate to the video they were said on. [1] But that explanation sounds... like a start to explaining how those people can say the things they're saying. 1) I did actually watch the "Toxic Masculinity" video, without the context I'd wanted to have. Oh well. The two earlier takes on the subject I'd come across before I first saw that one were by Steve Shives, and Karen Straughan. The two of them laid out a noticeably different idea to yours. I had thought that their two takes on the subject had actually been nearly identical to each others, despite being a feminist and anti-feminist (respectively). Only meaningful difference was some word substitutions, and Shives' attributing apparently all bad behaviour by women to the Patriarchy. I saw that the Honey Badgers had talked about your video after I'd seen both of those. Was rather taken aback to see... one of them accuse you of Hate Speech?! Seems especially odd seeing as Karen Straughan had called the concept real herself, and AFIAK she is still part of that podcast. I suppose I could even add on a further disclaimer... I'm still not sure I yet understand how the New Atheists reacted to ElevatorGate in 2011. I heard many things about it that year, before any of us really knew what was going on. Without the hindsight we have now. I've read into it a little bit further in the last couple of months, but I'd hardly say I understand what the people involved thought was going on. I understand GamerGate far, far less clearly than I do the New Atheists, however.
dude, serious applause for that in-depth comment. okay, moment over. activism culture is an incredibly interesting phenomenon - and the best explanation I've heard to date is that ideologies (which can turn into activist causes in a heart beat) are replacement religions. imagine a person who realizes they have a bad habit and they rashly decide to go cold turkey. what usually happens as a consequence of this? they've shut themselves off from their go-to behavior when a particular, say stressful, situation arises, and they didn't plan out what to do instead of the bad habit. so when that context comes up the next time after this cold turkey resolution, they HAVE to go back to the habit, but now a good dose of guilt and shame is involved bc they'd promised themselves they'd be better than this. this is what happened to human civilization as a whole during the enlightenment, when scientific method became too useful and religion was deemed to be cause of too many lies and evils to be valid; this didn't happen immediately in the West, so we had /some/ time to adjust - but we can see with Russia how a sudden import of Western values created an incredibly confused and damaged social Russian psyche. this is what Dostoevsky (Brothers Karamazov) is all about: struggling to find a unity between the religious inheritance and the scientific age. anyway, when society on a more general level accepted the view of religions being backwards and irrational and something to be avoided like the plague, that kinda left us unable to use the psychological tools provided by religion. religion was and can still be our best source of distilled code of behaviour to live a good life. too many people ofc interpreted it literally, and that's what we atheists like to laugh at - like the Earth being at the center of the universe, but there are admirable notions behind it, humans trying to figure out their place in the world. also, often we forget, or worse yet, mock the origins of the scientific method out of alchemy, a metaphysical/religious subject of study. churches had provided greater education opportunities to people, though often out of their own selfish reasons, and scientific method was conceived there. and being unable to use religion explicitly, people hastily slapped together ideologies (after all, there's something to be said for millennia of development vs a couple of decades or even a century or two) whose followers, quite naturally, surprisingly, exhibit religious behaviors: extreme fans of sports, tv shows, celebrities even; militant vegans, atheists, sjws.. these are all the same tragic story of our newly formed rational forebrain seizing the reigns so quickly that it completely forgot the main driver is still the scared-for-its-life-because-the-world-could-devour-you hindbrain. this primordial fear draws people to collectivist movements - safety in numbers, after all. there is an amazing story about zebras and why their colouring is in that pattern: it's camouflage. that's ridiculous, you might say, there's no natural environment which a zebra could stand against and not be seen as clear as day. all that's true, with one incredibly important exception: the zebra doesn't stand out against its herd! and that's how it survives, by blending in, and that's how we generally survive too. and now a plug bc he's my personal hero and inspiration the last year: if you found this post interesting to read, check out Jordan B Peterson (most of these ideas are taken from him, with the exception of the analogy to a person with a bad habit - that's something I learned a long time from Jeanette Kasper, in a story about creaky floorboards in the kitchen, and I thought it was incredibly fitting).
Wow people can be so rude!! Maybe just me but I don't get anything wrong with what you said and just like you said even if I did or anyone does fine have a reasonable logical debate. Calling you names and coming at you like that is just disrespectful and does not talk about the topic at all! It solves nothing. I see this all the time and the psychology of it does interest me too. Like it actually hurts any argument the person has because they can't come at you with facts or opinions about the topic but have to just curse you and insult you. This helps no one :(
Damn they need to shh because from what I can see you're beautiful inside and out. I feel like people who have been brought up to believe in gender roles feel threatened by people who are dare to challenge what they believe is right. Also I think it has a lot to do with the environment these people are in. Psychology is so interesting but unfortunately I tend to take everything personally whoops. Note to self: Sort that shit way of thinking out Bri tyty
since i dont want to comment on that video cause itll probably make me upset - I thought that was a good video! The forcing of toxic masculinity is a big issue and i dont know why people got so nasty about it (who am i kidding i do know why but ill never understand it) Anyway just wanna send some love amongst all that hate
woman-splaining haha good one. Also this isn't a feminist thing. It's more of an internet thing where people feel they can do anything when no one knows who they are. It does need to be fixed but I feel people still need to be anonymous.
Well, that is one way to validate her opinions. What cretins. I say this as someone who is utterly disappointed in feminists... and everyone else too really.
The comments you receive are horrible, of course, but on the other hand, they're hilarious. These men that leave comments like that, seriously, what are they thinking? They know that they're coming from nothing and adding nothing. They don't even have a point of view, they aren't even saying that Claudia is wrong, just that she needs to stop talking. Like Virginia Woolf pointed out in "A room of one's own", men behave the way they do because they feel threatened by women. Women and other non-males don't behave this way because they're smarter than that, we don't need to constantly put others down to feel our own worth.
I love your channel and, although I don't agree with you on everything, I find your videos really interesting. You're always very pleasant and you've never been malicious towards people online, so the vitriol you get is completely unjustified. I think a lot of people are very black-and-white about things and brand anyone who has a different viewpoint as them as a bad person. I've seen this happen with both SJWs and anti SJWs (who have more in common then they like to admit, in my opinion.) So some people just immediately jump to the conclusion that you're some man hater because you're a feminist, before even listening to what you have to say. I mean, I thought the toxic masculinity video was actually helpful in dealing with men's issues, as it addressed the root cause of many issues men face, such as male suicide. But these people read the title, misinterpreted it as you calling men toxic, and decided to be dickheads about it. I wish more people would listen to people with other points of view and simply be open to the idea that their own point of view may not be 100% right. I think the freedom to debate online is a wonderful thing, and it can be a learning experience for both sides. It's such a shame that so many feel the need to attack those with different opinions to them, but I'm glad you're able to rise above that.
It actually terrifies me that there are people like that
Why?
That there are people who would wish someone death, rape or other abuse simply for stating there opinion is terrifying. Imagine how awful an individual that must be to so violently hate someone for disagreeing with them or voicing a thought that does not match with theirs. Claudia never attacks anybody, she states her own views in a calm, composed manner, and yet she gets these kinds of responses that are absolutely disgusting and, in my opinion, quite terrifying as you don't know if one of them might someday act on their words.
If that scares you then wait till you hit the real world.
You are just the most wonderful person. I can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like going through comments like that. Thank you for using your platform the way you do.
You can't?
Are you new to the internet?
That comment section was horrifying but the way you read them was hilarious and made me giggle.
Those people have nothing but ad hominem/ personal attacks. There was nothing addressing her actual arguments just personal insults. That's a logical fallacy. You do not look smart if you resort to logical fallacies.
Those comments are ridiculous & juvenile
You are right & they should be called out
The juvenile comments are to get a reaction from other people on the comment section. Most don't think that the content creator even reads all their comments.
Perhaps content creators should fight back by exposing the usernames of the most vile comments to show that you actually are reading your comments & don't appreciate personal attacks
i remember our conversation when i made my response to you a year or so ago. it was refreshing to hear you found it interesting/funny or whatever and just going back and forth with you about how important it is for everyone to put their opinions on the internet.
edit: holy fuck these comments are E D G Y
hearing you read them in your posh accent is hilarious
i'm glad you're not taking them seriously.
Thanks Shoe. I really appreciate that, and also I'm so glad people like you exist online, because even if we don't always agree, I think we prove that women aren't some monolith! xxx
this interaction makes me so happy
P O S I T I V E V I B E S !
omg shoo
Oh cool. Claudia is friends with the woman who wants to erase the struggles of people of color from the LGTBQ movement. Classy.
When people can't think of logical responses to disagreements, that is where the tearing down of looks and slings of hoping you get abused come in. I've been a subscriber of yours for a while and it's amazing to see how you've grown and can just brush these comments off. You're amazing, Claudia.
Courtney D You're one of the three nice comments, haha. Nice to see a civilized person
I try to be. Again I'm also a fan of her though so...I might be biased.
yas
And when we CAN think of logical responses, we make thousands and thousands of videos detailing those logical responses and you feminists.... ignore them and just keep repeating the same stuff.
On a lighter note anyone know if Claudia Boleyn is going to do the occasional episode summaries on Season 7 Game of Thrones which is coming soon July 2017 ???? I respect someone who knows about UK history that comments on the parallels it has with the fantasy show.
the irony of these comments being posted on your toxic masculinity video lmao
I can't get my head around the comments you get. You always explain your points in the clearest way as well as respectfully, so it's beyond painful watching how people can't return the courtesy. Or, instead, put their energy into making decent counter arguments. You're encouraging healthy dialogue, and that should never stop! Keep making awesome videos!
cry for me
looks like somebody's gotta
Is it really that hard to understand? The internet is a place where people from all around the world pool together and interact with one another. The world is full of idiots, assholes and people that generally enjoy pushing other people's buttons. There are also people that simply do not have anything constructive to say, perhaps because they are not particularly good at formulating and expressing their thoughts and opinions, because there's too much they disagree with in the video for them to take on in a single comment, or perhaps it's simply how they are as people.
If you are someone on the internet who draw attention from a lot of people it is actually impossible for these people to not include these people I described previously, which I generally tend to call trolls.
If all people that disagreed with her arguments and positions were like these comments she cherrypicked in this video it would be more valid for you to not understand, but that does not seem to be the case. Someone else in the comments of this video showed examples of comments she has recieved found with a quick look that were actually interested in engaging in civil conversation.
honestly it's hard to imagine what is going on in these people's head for leaving that sort of comments...
I know that you said you're able to deal with these things but I hope that all the nice comments you get still kinda counter balance this crap
On that note: As always, a brilliant video with great point, spoken with eloquence and you look absolutely lovely
I'd state those comments are just easy ways to attack ideas they dislike. It takes more energy to listen and debate than to just attack. It seems to me, most of the population doesn't have the energy to spend on these things and thus just attack the ideas with these lazy attacks.
I laughed aloud a few times as you were reading the comments out. My theory is that they are trying to get you to lose your temper and then they can go "look, she's just an angry irrational woman". My parents would call them 'wind up merchants'. Speaking of them, my mum watched your video on the election and said "I agree with this lady. It's nice to see young people with an opinion".
Aw, that's lovely! Please say hi to your mum for me! xxx
They are trolls. Of course they are trying to push her buttons. That's what they do. Are you new to the internet?
Thank you for agreeing with me Bisharp
Those are some hard hitting arguments there. Feminist academics, WATCH OUT!
Ironically, this is about equivalent to the posts Claudia brings up. A tit-for-tat situation.
Typical feminist, cherry pick all the hateful comments to claim victim status. Maybe those 'academics' could respond to the more robust anti-feminist arguments instead.
Claudia I'm so sorry you have to go through this, ftr I think your toxic masculinity video is one of the best you've ever done and I really enjoy hearing your opinions on all different topics. We don't all have to agree, especially on such hot button issues, but there is a level of mutual respect and decency that one would assume we all understand...evidently not..anyway, sending lots of love
I really don't understand. Is this audience new to the internet and trolls?
Claudia, you're wonderful and I admire you so much for still speaking up despite all the vile, pointless hate you get. Thank you for being you
Claudia, you are a woman of strength and grace 👏🏾 the comments made my stomach turn, but your video inspires me.
Oh my God Claudia!! WTF?!!! The way you read the comments had me laughing so hard. What is wrong with these people?!!! I had a guy tell me on one of my YT videos that I should be ground in to dog food! I literally laughed for days. Do these people realise how fkg ridiculous they sound?! Lol. I love your videos and you are beautiful by the way! And the way u read their comments just made me love you more!! xxx
All these pissed off men who made those comments are literally the definition of toxic masculinity. And anyone who says that someone should be raped for their opinions need to be put in jail: those are rapists and future rapists.
Ohhh, the toxic masculinity video... yeah, the vitriol you got was RIDICULOUSLY disproportionate. I haven't watched it in a while, but I seem to remember that it was a perfectly innocent explanation of the term, and people willfully misinterpreted you left and right because the term is "toxic masculinity". It was really frustrating to see, because I didn't (and still don't) understand why people wouldn't just hear you out. I'm glad you're at a point where the harassment doesn't get to you -- I don't think you should have to have been driven to that point in the first place, but if you have to be there, I'm glad you're not suffering.
So...would you say Claudia benefited from her harassment?
Would I? No. Not my opinion that matters there, but no.
I know right? its so hard to talk to people about toxic blackness ;(
When people can't debate and are losing an argument they believe the next best option is to bully and threaten and harass with personal attacks. I wonder how they would feel if a member of their family was being treated in this way way. It's just an opinion people.
If you believe you have something valid to say then why not show your face? Because it is easier to throw abuse and threaten when no one can see you. Brave debating.
SANE, CIVILIZED PEOPLE:
Don't read the comments, it is disgusting to read
What the hell. These people have serious issues, and you're amazing for just brushing them off.
See, that's the only thing people should do about arseholes on the internet. That's why they say not to feed the trolls. I reckon part of the reason why we're seeing such a huge surge in the "alt right" is because we as a culture have been feeding trolls and giving them reason to call the left "triggered". Talking policy instead of making stuff about our egoes kills this toxic culture that we've made for ourselves.
Is it really that amazing to deal with trolls? Have you never encountered one before?
What's great is how she goes about dealing with them. Usually people just ignore trolls or get really upset over it - I think it's amazing to see someone show them just how ridiculous they are - and that there's basically no point to what they're doing.
Not really, but it's how you deal with it that matters. I think people are too reactive to stuff on the internet and to take the time to reflect on how you might respond to that criticism is sadly something that too many people lack. Personally I have few inhibitions to what I say online. Boobies.
NerdyMuch, I don't think it's so much exposing these people for their ridiculousness that matters so much as it is her composure. She's not on the defensive nor is she outright attacking people. She's just being herself and seemingly not losing any sleep over it. And she does all this while remaining quite rational and generally being quite fair to all sides of the debate. You gotta give people credit for being able to detach their ego from these matters. It's stupidly easy to get butthurt because someone called you a poop head.
The fact that you laughed in the face of these disgusting comments just shows what a strong woman you are. I am so grateful I have such a strong female influence in my life (My mum, my aunties and my cousins). You are one of my favourite TH-camrs. As I said before, your videos about depression and mental health have helped me a lot. So keep your head up high Claudia, you're a legend. xxx
Love how all these men who have likely never put makeup on anything, and likely know nothing about it, are criticizing your makeup. As a makeup artist, your makeup is awesome. I don't understand these people. You'd think they'd have something better to do with their day than leave pointless hateful comments on your videos.
Maybe they're secretly drag queens, you never know...
TheDoobidoob that's why I said likely. Although, I've never seen a drag queen complain about too much makeup 😂
Clearly eliminating the competition. But seriously, I do know guys that do drag and sometimes they go for subtler make up. Dunno why. I'm a lassie and I don't wear make up so I don't get the "politics" over it. Seems pretty silly.
You just assumed their gender.
I'll ask for pronouns next time, lol.
I must say I have immensely enjoyed your dramatic reading. Please, oh please, I need more of this in my life.
More proof that everything sounds better in an English accent
It's really nice to see you taking these comments in stride. A lot more people should have the same attitude.
I commend you for not letting this stuff get to you. I've only had one video where I had to turn off comments (I don't get many views) but I was so upset, I was in tears.
Claudia, while I mostly agree with you, I have to disagree with the fact that it is always wrong to call someone out in a less than respectful way.
I'm a disabled WoC in the U.S. who has been a victim of sexual assault. If making fun of Trump's hairstyle gives me a laugh in a political arena that is increasingly hostile to my very existence, I don't think that's wrong. Expecting marginalized groups to "go high" when we're consistently harassed for our very existence, when our healthcare is taken away, when we're assaulted, when we're being governed by someone who brags about assault...it's tone policing and unfair.
Obviously there are certain things (like making fun of someone for their race, or calling conservative women sexist names, fat-shaming) that are counterproductive in discourse, because they reinforce the very hierarchies we are trying to dismantle. However, laughing at the ridiculousness of hateful people by mocking some of their more superficial ridiculous choices, like wearing ridiculous amounts of self tanner, or having a proclivity to tween nonsense in the middle of the night, is not equivalent to the harassment, abuses, and assaults that marginalized communities face.
Jeez. I might not agree with you on a tonne of things but who the hell sends another human being that.
Yea, too many people will stoop to assuming the worst of another person based on a first glance. honestly neither side is better off in that regard - substitute the troll and denigrating comments with accusations of racism, sexism, etc. (all of which are heavily moral judgments) and you get the sjw ideologues' version of it. 🙆 I just can't..
I became an avid viewer of your channel around three years ago when I was only 13 years old and I honestly credit you with the fact that I am a feminist and am so educated and interested in social justice issues today. Your toxic masculinity video is one of my favourite ones you have ever made and it, just like many of your other videos, really opened my mind on such an important topic. I hope you know that even though you get appalling hate sometimes there are people all over the world whose lives and opinions you have seriously changed.
I've never understood why any of these sorts of people comment nasty things like that. I always hope people will be civil and say what they don't agree with but most of the time they simply make horrible comments about appearance. I've only been subscribed to you for about a month or so but you're one of the most lovely and well-spoken individuals I've ever had the pleasure of watching! As usual, you handled all this beautifully! I'm glad none of the senseless hate is getting to you.
I had a horrified smile on my face through this. On the one hand, the way you read these was hilarious but on the other, what the hell is wrong with people?! They must have sad, small, lonely lives to get a kick out of some of the stuff they were saying to you. I can't believe there were so many as well, this really is a huge problem and pretty sickening. Also, you are really beautiful, I can't believe how many 'ugly' comments people were throwing about, clearly they have a problem with their own self esteem if they're so desperately trying to bring down yours. Maybe they should step back and take a look at their own lives first before judging another.
Claudia I have always loved your perspective and feel that you are very even and fair about your observations. I like how you explain things and you never personally attack people, you just explain why you think certain things are harmful or negative. It's terrible people were saying such horrible things. I'm sorry, people are awful and when they have nothing productive to say they just resort to personal attacks and that is not ok. Why can't we all just disagree with each other in a respectful way?
Claudia: I support response videos, debates, and free speech
You people in the comments: So...what you're saying is......you want to take my free speech?!?!?!?!
There's absolutely no reason to attack someone personally in a debate, if you have a good, substantial argument then it will hold up in a debate and there's absolutely no reason to be nasty
who.. says these things..
i really thought those comments would't upset me THAT much, but some of those (esp. mental health & sexual assault related) made me feel ill.
Sorry they made you feel bad. I hope you're okay now. Sending you love. xxx
I am not going to lie. It really hurt to hear that you receive those kind of messages. I have also personally received disgusting messages as well. I am always baffled at the complete lack of any argument in those kind of comments. I can only interpret it was they just didn't like hearing what I have said and it must have struck a nerve because why else would they react so emotionally and illogically? Also, the way people have misunderstood the concept of freedom of speech always never fail to baffle me. It's about government censorship not someone blocking you from their blog lmfao
I really shouldn't be laughing at this but the way you read this is wonderful :p
Anyway, you're very strong for making videos in spite of the horrid messages you receive.
Why should you not be laughing at this? Have you never faced a troll before? You don't win by taking them seriously.
i suppose i feel like i shouldn't find death and rape threats funny? but you're right, taking the trolls seriously will never be a good idea
The way you read the comments was so funny. You're the best Claudia.
People wanna be arseholes for the sake of just being arseholes. They want to get some kind of reaction out of you. Keep going strong Claudia, don't give them the time of day.
Honestly you're so lovely. You've helped me out so much with your videos, since I have terrible anxiety and like no self esteem. I hate it that people have commented things like that, but I'm so glad you're able to look past them. Plus I love your makeup :)
I don't know if you'll ever even read this, but your videos have helped me in more ways than I can ever say. I am sorry for these comments that you face.
Only about a third of the way through, and not an anti-feminist or anything like that, but just in reference to your initial explanation of toxic masculinity being enforced masculinity, would that in itself not make a better/less divisive label? A lot of antis seem to twinge at the term in the same way feminists sometimes do towards feminazi, but I haven't personally seen any antis that are in favour of toxic masculinity once the concept is explained - just the term.
In that case, would it not be more constructive to relabel toxic masculinity as enforced masculinity so we can have a more productive dialogue?
That being said, from the first few comments you've read, those are some vile responses and don't seem proportionate to the video by any means. Some people are really shit.
I think that's an interesting idea, but there's also part of me that thinks we shouldn't have to make the label more palatable in order for the concept to be heard, understood, and discussed. I'm not a man and I've never really identified with the word "masculine", so I can't say how seeing "toxic masculinity" as a man or masculine person would affect me on a visceral level, but I think the concept absolutely makes sense as NOT an attack on masculinity once it's explained. I think at the core, there's an argument to be made that relabeling "toxic masculinity" as "enforced masculinity" is just another way to make feminism about men and catering to men's feelings, and that having constant discussion and debate over the term detracts from the discussions and debates we need to be having about the concept itself.
(All that said, I don't know exactly where I stand on what I've just said. That's just me trying to see the other side of what you've put forth.)
+ramywiles I hear where you're coming from. I'm a guy and never been particularly bothered by the label, but I can see that some might because they always seem to stumble at the whole "I'm not meaning men as a whole when I use this term, just this version of being a man" point and shut out stuff beyond that. For those men who do subscribe to that mindset, they take it personally because you're calling their beliefs and actions into question. I think all of this partly grows out of the "haters gonna hate" mindset from the last few years. This attitude of "any criticism is inherently hating" is dangerous since it often makes people avoid constructive criticism as well as harassment, so we all lock ourselves more into our belief systems and don't let them be challenged.
A lot of the men who do get offended by it often claim to subscribe to the "ultra freedom" mentalities as well - freedom to say whatever they want, however abhorrent that may be - so I think if we were to frame the concept in those terms, we might make more headway. If they were to think enforcing a hyper-masculine attitude impinged on personal freedoms of other men, they might have less virulent opposition to it's criticism.
It's like how one of the best way to convince conservatives about renewable energy is to frame it in terms of the free market (eg: "you're being unfair in the market to renewables if you subsidise fossil fuels," "you're killing off competition from the small businesses standing up to big bad oil," etc.). It's all about finding the angle that will resonate most with the target audience.
A much more crass and nasty comparison might be how white supremacists and neo-nazis have somehow managed to couch their ideas in this attitude of "oh no no, we're just white nationalists" - people get on board because they think they're not tied to objectionable language and that makes it easier for them to fall into the ideologies. Again, this is a totally awful and abominable comparison, but I'm just trying to highlight how language makes a difference to people who might otherwise listen.
That said, I do understand the worries about getting distracted by terminology rather than content. I understand not wanting to sanitise a concept to make it nicer for objectors (obviously not as directly as someone who's faced with basically having to make their existence and instincts more palatable a lot of the time), but I do worry sometimes that if we are so rigid on minor points like terminology, we lose the larger battles (and at the moment, the terminology seems to be the tripping point that stops a lot of antis before they get to the content).
Dima - "I haven't personally seen any antis that are in favour of toxic masculinity once the concept is explained - just the term."
Did you write this correctly? It seems to me you meant "against" instead of "favour."
Just based on the term "toxic masculinity," it comes off as there are parts of masculinity that are wrong and therefore there are parts of men that are wrong. So, an attack on men from feminists, which is a common perception from the anti and even MGTOW groups.
"For those who do subscribe to that mindset, they take it personally because you're calling their beliefs and actions into question" -- This actually makes for a good one-sentence summary of a video series (that you might have heard of, might not) called Why Are You So Angry? by Innuendo Studios. The entire point is that there are people on the other end of the argument whose views are so wrapped up in their own personal morality and inherent goodness or badness as a person that they will automatically bristle at terms, concepts, groups of people, etc. that don't immediately assure them that they're good. It's a really good series that I highly recommend and try to keep in mind, so yes, I definitely see your point here.
"It's all about finding the angle that will resonate most with the target audience" -- TOTALLY see where you're coming from here, as well as on your point about the "ultra freedom" types, because this is more or less where I myself am coming from and how I approach any given conversation to do with politics or feminism. I think the question at that point is whether the movement as a whole and/or everyone within it should be obligated to adopt that mindset. I think there's a great case to be made for approaching discussions with compassion and as deep and nuanced an understanding of the other side's points and origins as possible, and I will always personally advocate for that approach, but I think others would make the case that it's either 1) not an equal effort on both parts to mutually understand each other or 2) sliding into dangerous territory for one side to make concessions to the other -- in line with what you said about "having to make [one's] existence and instincts more palatable". I personally feel the first but press on anyway in the hopes that maybe it will eventually become mutual, and apart from not being a man, I have a substantial amount of identity-related privilege, so the second is not really my argument to make.
+James J If you'd read my comments, you'd see we're in agreement over the term coming off as an attack to some men who take it personally. To clarify, I mean they're not pro-concept once they get past being against the term (probably didn't word it well enough).
When you ask them "so do you believe men who aren't hypermasculine bros should be ridiculed? aren't you infringing their freedom to be whoever they want to be?", reasonable antis tend to come to "well no, I'm not for telling someone how they should be, that's against freedom of expression" (again though, that's if they're reasonable).
Of course there's the "no, men who aren't chock full of testosterone are pussies, cucks and betamales" brigade, but tbh, they're pretty much trolls and aren't willing (or perhaps able) to engage in discussions in the first place. But if the term were "enforced masculinity," I think you'd get the antis who're obsessed with freedom and debating to actually look at the issue rather than obsessing over the label.
As someone who kind of stands in the center position in the debate (I agree with the feminist side on some issues and agree with the anti side on others), I must really say thank you for standing up for reasonable debate, as I have been blocked/insulted by "members" of both sides despite always trying to take a respectful, idea-based approach.
Genuine question though: Since you spoke about women online in particular, is it correct that women receive more of those vile comments when voicing their opinions online/do we have numbers for this sort of thing? I do assume that they different for sure (such as involving "get back to the kitchen" etc.), but I have the perception everyone with an opinion online will get some rather nasty comments from angry dissidents of this sort.
Grael949 legit same in terms of the center-y position, though I witness more powerful irrationality on the left and it does push me away from that, but succumbing to RWA is nowhere near my plans either lol. it's authoritarianism as a whole I have a problem with - and the left is dominated by it nowadays even more than the right, which is SUCH a strange statement to utter, but there it is.
but anyways, I have had the same observations as you: the nature of the trolling may be different given the particular target, but it's primarily determined by opening one's mouth about anything publically.
You are a real role-model!
Hey Claudia! Big fan of yours, and I think the work that you do online is really fantastic, keep it up! Here's a bit of insight from my personal experience and feelings as to where some of the hateful things people post online come from. I think it comes from a place of misery, low self esteem and insecurity. I think it comes from an inability (often found in males) to express emotions which are then bottled up until they can be spewed online knowing that there will be no consequences. When men go through life not being able to express their feelings excepting anger, it leads to far more hatred than would otherwise be expected, especially towards women.
TY for actually discussing your view, since many people on both sides of "left/right" issues (which I find distasteful) have a tendency to be rather emotional/hyperstatistical. I personally have conservative values so no doubt you and I would butt heads over numerous topics but for a change I believe it would be a refreshing and challenging exchange for both of us. Unfortunately the internet, as I predicted in my youth, caters mostly to lowest common denominator exchanges...safe distance from repercussion without oversite (by that I mean expectation or demand of civility) tends to do that. Also, the severe lack of fact checking that leads to platitudes of superiority can be rather choking at times. Passionate factual dialogue has become rather rare since the rampant advent of mass social media, to the detriment of society as a whole. And the mainstream media does little to encourage social dignity... but that's another fact of the times that... Anyway, I wanted to say I find your deportment and features rather fetching (so apparently many of your detractors are simply spiteful nits, or perhaps there's a video of you in a less favorable condition that I've missed...(which I doubt). But that's all subjective drivel so who cares really. I'd like to know your opinion of the Antifa/blm/feminist/etc. movements being funded by George Soros. I think there are too many people with legitimate issues being manipulated by his network of shady funding and interests (as he did in the Ukraine) and I can't understand why so many on the left are falling into his machinations of social decay. I'd be outraged to learn that my progressive movement was being co-opted in such a manner by a person who literally makes billions destabilizing and creating harm at the risk and expense of others...(in the form of permanent police records, incarceration/litigation fines, etc...). I'll send you my e-mail soon, should you desire to respond, HuGGz and TY for your more dignified (adult) attitude.
I'm 2 minutes in your video and let me just say, you have earned all my respect. Keeping your comments and ratings up despite harassment is amazing, and something only a strong person can do.
I don't know how you manage to have such patience, but it really is amazing. I wish I had your calmness and decency.
You're probably one of the most intelligent social justice advocates on this website. I've tried to find channels in the past that talk about social justice without being overly arrogant or sarcastic, but it's much easier said than done. Props to you for being so chill
I watched this video after Shoe0nhead posted it to her twitter and I have to say your rational response to all this is really fucking refreshing. Your approach to this entire situation and the idea of having a healthy open debate was great to hear. Probably an odd episode to gain a subscriber from but I'm now looking forward to watching your older videos to hear your opinions because the way you presented your ideas in this video was very interesting.
It's a shame people have to resort to personal attacks when they disagree with people and shows a lack of understanding of the subject at hand. I've often thought people that resort to personal attacks often don't actually care about the content of a video and instead of watching it and forming their own opinion and arguments they decide "it's from the other side" and so attack.
I always think of a quote from Musashi Miyomoto's Book Of Five Rings, "If you merely read this book you will not reach the Way of strategy. Absorb the things written in this book. Do not just read, memorise or imitate, but so that you realise
the principle from within your own heart study hard to absorb these things into your body."
Reading that made me realise that every time you hear someone's opinion or are taught something you should not just accept it into your own mind but instead treat each thought and opinion as if you yourself had thought of it, helping you better understand someone's path of thought.
I'll stop rambling now, good video and I look forward to hearing your opinions on other matters as well
This should be promoted as a Must Watch video. I think everyone should be able to express their opinions, and they should be viewed as individuals when making statements. Attributing negative comments to someone else shouldn't be done though. They may say the same general or even exactly same thing, but that removes individual responsibility from anyone who would parrot them. I believe people should be held accountable for what they say, be able to support/defend it and accept responsibility for any consequences that come from it. I am not saying to prosecute through law, as that impedes ones right to free speech, I am saying that anything that comes from spouting garbage is fair play. It isn't also important to bring comedy into the idea, while best left to the professionals, many say things thinking they are funny & should be told flat out that they failed, or simply ignored. The concept of "don't feed the trolls" is absolutely valid and applicable to all sides. I applaud your ability to not let garbage comments bother you, and see them for what they are...garbage. I for one appreciate when someone uses name calling as a way to hold an argument, it lets me know they have no facts which to help them make their case & are going to be easily dismissed. Meh, rambling......well made video, gained a subscriber!
I love how you deal with hate. It's brilliant and you make the people look as stupid as they are.
Your videos are brilliant
also
soggy toast? really?
PLEASE COME UP WITH A BETTER INSULT
This is absolutely disgusting. So vile. These people are not understanding that they could so easily argue a point respectively but instead they prove how right you are by being misogynistic arseholes. And the things they said about rape and being beaten to quieten you down. I have no words for how utterly disgraceful that is. Love you Claudia, you’re such an intelligent woman, you’re beautiful and I have so much respect for you.
Those comments were absolutely revolting but well done for laughing about it and not letting them affect you too much! It's sad really- bullies and haters have such a bad life they feel the need to dish out insults to strangers online! Love your videos Claudia :-)
Like what you've done with your hair. Infinitely more importantly, I like your videos and the amount of thought and perception you put into them. Sad that there are people like that out there and I hope that one day they'll find more meaningful things to do with their lives. Who knows, maybe you'll inspire them.
claudia if they're reacting like this you're clearly doing something right ❤️️ not excusing the behaviour just admiring how eloquent and succint you are while they appear like whiny pisslords
"Hammerhead shark" ????? ????? ???
I originally had my own disagreements with your toxic masculinity video which were expressed in Undoomed's response video (I'm assuming that's the response you're talking about), but after watching this video it seems like you've put some more context into your opinions, and I agree with you more for it.
I 100% agree with you when you say that people shouldn't sling insults at each other. People express their opinions from their subjective point of view, so the way in which individual people see the world is going to be different from person to person.
It seems like alot of the comments you read came from anti-feminists, who do make some valid criticisms of feminism, but when you get individuals from that group unironically saying things like "Get back in the kitchen." all they're actually doing is validating feminism, which is counter-productive to their own cause.
Thanks for the comment. I am working on a response to the points made in the Undoomed video, but it's pretty long so please bear with me! I feel like I was misunderstood/misrepresented in a lot of ways and I want to make my views clearer. xxx
Claudia Boleyn wow you actually responded to my comment!
Let me just go ahead and hit that subscribe button!
BenGordonBITCHSLAP 😂 the kitchen/make up/etc. comments shit is nothing more than level 0 trolling, come on now.
Renata Vine oh yeah it absolutely is trolling and is done purely to get a reaction, and it's funny when you're like 13, but when you get to a certain point the whole "HURR DURR DON'T FEED THE TROLLS, DID I HURT YOUR FEE FEES? LOL SO BUTT FRUSTRATED" thing just gets old and boring, especially when people realise that the reaction is what the trolls are looking for.
That's why people find things like Celebrities Read Mean Tweets funny, because noone cares what some asshole on the Internet says about them anymore, and the joke ends up being on the trolls themselves.
I love the way you're reading the comments, it really sounds like those comments actually are YOUR opinions. x)
Think some of the people in this comment section are submitting entries for your next theatrical read. I think you are very well spoken. And I appreciate how you are open to all comments on your videos.
People become real heroes while hiding behind the anonymity of their internet comment sections, their parents must be so proud. Meanwhile, you do drag on longer than my younger brother, it takes you forever to get to the point and you create 5 new unrelated points during the trip. XD This video reminds me of a paperlilies video from like 2006, a name nobody knows anymore these days, she also read hater comments and it was just as hilarious.
The reason people feel free to write whatever they want is the anonymity of the internet(obviously) and also the lack of consequence.
When you hurl vitriol at someone in person you can instantly see the effect and you can be called into account for it or ever suffer legal consequences if any of the physical threats made here would've actually been said or god forbid actually acted upon.
But when you randomly express all of your hate to a screen and never see the effect, you are free to do that as much as you like because you have released some of the venom you have inside out into the world without consequence, without knowing the effect it might have on someone.
When you insult someone in person you can see the effect it has on them, you can see the hurt that you cause and for many of these people (unfortunately not nearly close to enough) saying these stuff without hiding behind a computer would be impossible.
This is an awesome video, and I thank you for discouraging looking at political opponents as enemies. It is INCREDIBLY easy to attack people on a personal level or view them as the human embodiment of evil (I've done the latter myself). Thanks for being so open-minded.
Wow, those comments are gross! I appreciate you staying on the internet anyway
First of all, you're like one of the most beautiful people on the planet and second of all, your makeup is always on point so idk what those people were talking about 😂
I think you're amazing Claudia and I'm so thankful for your videos.
It's laughable to think that people would actually spend the time to leave such a vile and pointless comment, what's the endgame they are going for here?
Truly appalling; I hope that their curses backfire.
I laughed a lot at the "B is for bitch", i mean all of these are horrible comments but the way you we're reading them was very funny
Honestly, I don't think people making comments like that usually that *have* an "intention". I think they're mostly just kind of instinctively acting out, in some kind of 'reptile brain' sort of way; you said *something* in your video that hit them on some personal, emotional, level, so they just instinctively spew out the most obnoxious shit that pops into their pointy little head in the moment.
That or (and I'm not trying to be dismissive here; I don't think it reduces the fucked-up-ness of what they say) just old-fashioned trolling; an adolescent urge to say something deeply offensive, just in the hope it gets a rise; that it'll "trigger" you. The internet has a way of making idiots want to say stupid shit, because... because they're idiots? i guess? idk
(Again, I hope this doesn't seem dismissive...) I really wouldn't stress about these twits. I think this video is a good response; the *last* thing you want to do is let these dickheads think they're getting to you. Laughing at them and ridiculing them is good, imo. btw not trying to sound cringey, but the more of your videos I watch, the more I respect you. You seem like a very reasonable, consistent, admirable person.
What were you expecting from anti-feminists and anti-social justice warriors?
The reason for you getting hate is probably because they are immature people that spend way too much time on the internet, and since there's so much sarcasm they have gotten a bit detached from how to interact, and it's a way to be enabled to get a laugh out of raiding an old video.
It's just too bad that they don't realize that it's only making them look like immature children and giving you a place to point at, where you can say "They are just immature, let's not bother." and now they have made your point of view look more reasonable and their side too look like petty whining.
Btw I love your approach to this, since you don't get emotional or personal, you just let them embarrass themselves by simply reading their comments out loud.
Glad you mentioned how you sometimes catch yourself laughing at posts making fun of Trump's appearance. I think that's the best way we can try and understand why people leave such vile comments on feminist channels. It frustrates me a little every time I see someone make a joke about Trump looking orange, or having silly hair, because really by attacking his appearance instead of opinions/policies, you're just discrediting yourself, and resorting to the same useless tactics as the trolls.
Also I think my favourites were "you look like a hammerhead shark," and the one about your flat, featureless, frying-pan-like face. Really made me laugh.
I don't identify with the label "feminist", I don't think I ever will, there's just too much stuff I disagree with feminists about. However, people like those commentators make me avoid the term "anti-SJW" or "anti-feminist" too.
No matter how much I disagree with someone I've never had the desire to threaten them.
Even if you really dislike someone and they are being really unpleasant surely it's more rewarding to poke holes in their logic and embarrass them that way than to outright call them names and be nasty to them.
"Your face is like the back of frying pan, flat and featureless." Oh my gosh I am sorry but I found this comment so funny that I had to stop the video I was laughing so hard. I love that this person a. Thought of this insult and b. Put it out probably thinking it was TERRIBLY insulting
Hilarious. Love the accent and tone (and smile) with these comments.
He DOES have silly hair though....love your videos, Claudia!! xxx
I am sure I hurt more than you did when you received those comments Claudia. Such jerks in this world. They would need to be put in place... I understand 200% why you say you wished there were more nice people in other videos!
This happens to pretty much everyone I know who takes positions on contentious political issues on the internet (and often in real life too).
I don't really see what the point is in publicising it though?
It comes across as an attempt to imply your positions are therefore more correct, on account of a poor opposition. Which doesn't necessarily follow at all. In some cases it's even the exact opposite.
Although I may not be on the same political/social spectrum as yourself I do appreciate keeping the comments open for legitimate feedback minus the trolls of course.
PS. Thank you for the ASMR videos as well, they are very well done.
Hate Speech and Hate Crimes are incredibly subjective. Why should we worry that someone attacked a black person? Should we not just say 'Holy shit they assaulted someone' to me when I hear 'Hate Crime' it makes it sound like people are making it more about Race and less about the fact that another human being was just assaulted or attacked.
So, a disclaimer before I go on a rant here: I'm a guy, non feminist, and I put off watching your video on Toxic Masculinity for most of the year. (I'd watched two others before finding your channel, and wanted to watch your earlier videos to understand where you were coming from before looking at your specific brand of that idea.) This isn't especially something I would demand feminists know, but if you want to know where the anger of that crowd stems from...
I either want to think, or am scared to think, that this phenomenon can be traced back to the roots of TH-cam's brand of anti-feminism. ...In 2009, 10, 11 or what ever the New Atheists were all over TH-cam / the internet. Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, what have you as major figures. And Hitchens was always talking about freedom of speech as the be-all and end-all of everything, nothing should be off limits, speech is the cure for religion, what have you. And he was a bit imfamous for using freedom of speech as an excuse for regular old bullying.
And then Elevatorgate happened. (June 2011) Social media drama, what ever you want to call it, it split all of us apart. And turned gender issues as a whole into something controversial for a bunch of people who hadn't cared much before. I'm not sure how much of this you, or any of the other viewers here, know of the history of Elevatorgate. If you're morbidly curious, "Freethought Kampala" has an article called "Elevatorgate" on the subject. Might only be an afternoon between reading that and the blogs and vlogs linked. I suspect... that that was the... flashpoint. Feminism became scary for a lot of New Atheists. Feminism was the monster walking down from the mountains to raid our home on the internet. Feminism was the Goliath that we "David" had to slay, or we would loose everything we had as a movement. I think this was the beginning of... the very branch of anti-feminism you and I see before us today. TH-cam anti-feminism and Atheism+ came together (Atheism + Feminism), as the opposite of the anti-feminist New Atheists... And Atheism+ became the enemy. I suspect that's where a lot of that community became quite embattled. I remember thinking to myself at the time, nobody was talking this through, nobody was listening, not of the big names at least... So the rest of us need to have this out ourselves. The rest of us need to figure out everything that was in dispute, or the difference wasn't going to be solved. By the sound of it, many (small name) people instead picked up a trench-warfare attitude. Either we (anti)feminists just beat the other side down, or this problem isn't going away. And that may well be how Atheism+ and the anti's had it out, at each other for the next two years. Atheism+ lost, the antis stuck around. The entire time, many of the antis would say that they were just exercising freedom of speech in their disagreement with feminism. There were claims (which I cannot now place) of Atheism+ being censorious. That they had to protect the right to say anything not explicitly feminist.
Now, some speculation to support my next point. Thinking back to a reddit comment I read a few weeks back (but don't know how to find again); The internet as a whole is absolutely chock full of social movements. They seem to have an easier time gaining momentum and support here than in person. People with pent up frustration about some problem or another can all get together here. Lots of niche issues that nobody had heard of before the internet are now regular parlance for some people. And people can point to anyone, anywhere doing or saying some little thing that they don't like, or is part of what they view the problem as. And that's enabled many movements, many calls for change, and led many more people into some form of activism culture. And it's put many more people on the receiving end of activism than before. The more toxic aspects of activism, activism culture, call-out culture, etc., are more obvious to many than they had been. And as this comment said (guessed?), the internet pretty much reached the saturation point for social movements, for social awareness. There were a lot of people frustrated, for lots of reasons. Some good, some petty, some bigoted. Sometimes just resentful that issues completely disconnected from them were (perceived as) blamed on them, or just pushed to people who wanted to talk about other things. This comment painted GamerGate as the first-come-first-serve outlet to much of that frustration... But the New Atheists may have been that first.
People who were frustrated with feminists, what ever the reason, found an outlet. And then GamerGate started, a few years later, and just dragged everybody else into the ring. The beefs people have with 'Social Justice Warriors', sounds like this kind of frustration with activist culture, with social awareness becoming saturated in some circles, and GamerGate tapped into opposition to all of it. And the New Atheist anti-feminists were still there, still a place to vent about feminists. I guess it makes sense they joined forces.
That would be my guess where this subculture is coming from. And don't get me wrong, those comments listed are not at all proportionate to the video they were said on. [1] But that explanation sounds... like a start to explaining how those people can say the things they're saying.
1) I did actually watch the "Toxic Masculinity" video, without the context I'd wanted to have. Oh well. The two earlier takes on the subject I'd come across before I first saw that one were by Steve Shives, and Karen Straughan. The two of them laid out a noticeably different idea to yours. I had thought that their two takes on the subject had actually been nearly identical to each others, despite being a feminist and anti-feminist (respectively). Only meaningful difference was some word substitutions, and Shives' attributing apparently all bad behaviour by women to the Patriarchy. I saw that the Honey Badgers had talked about your video after I'd seen both of those. Was rather taken aback to see... one of them accuse you of Hate Speech?! Seems especially odd seeing as Karen Straughan had called the concept real herself, and AFIAK she is still part of that podcast.
I suppose I could even add on a further disclaimer... I'm still not sure I yet understand how the New Atheists reacted to ElevatorGate in 2011. I heard many things about it that year, before any of us really knew what was going on. Without the hindsight we have now. I've read into it a little bit further in the last couple of months, but I'd hardly say I understand what the people involved thought was going on. I understand GamerGate far, far less clearly than I do the New Atheists, however.
dude, serious applause for that in-depth comment. okay, moment over. activism culture is an incredibly interesting phenomenon - and the best explanation I've heard to date is that ideologies (which can turn into activist causes in a heart beat) are replacement religions. imagine a person who realizes they have a bad habit and they rashly decide to go cold turkey. what usually happens as a consequence of this? they've shut themselves off from their go-to behavior when a particular, say stressful, situation arises, and they didn't plan out what to do instead of the bad habit. so when that context comes up the next time after this cold turkey resolution, they HAVE to go back to the habit, but now a good dose of guilt and shame is involved bc they'd promised themselves they'd be better than this. this is what happened to human civilization as a whole during the enlightenment, when scientific method became too useful and religion was deemed to be cause of too many lies and evils to be valid; this didn't happen immediately in the West, so we had /some/ time to adjust - but we can see with Russia how a sudden import of Western values created an incredibly confused and damaged social Russian psyche. this is what Dostoevsky (Brothers Karamazov) is all about: struggling to find a unity between the religious inheritance and the scientific age. anyway, when society on a more general level accepted the view of religions being backwards and irrational and something to be avoided like the plague, that kinda left us unable to use the psychological tools provided by religion. religion was and can still be our best source of distilled code of behaviour to live a good life. too many people ofc interpreted it literally, and that's what we atheists like to laugh at - like the Earth being at the center of the universe, but there are admirable notions behind it, humans trying to figure out their place in the world. also, often we forget, or worse yet, mock the origins of the scientific method out of alchemy, a metaphysical/religious subject of study. churches had provided greater education opportunities to people, though often out of their own selfish reasons, and scientific method was conceived there. and being unable to use religion explicitly, people hastily slapped together ideologies (after all, there's something to be said for millennia of development vs a couple of decades or even a century or two) whose followers, quite naturally, surprisingly, exhibit religious behaviors: extreme fans of sports, tv shows, celebrities even; militant vegans, atheists, sjws.. these are all the same tragic story of our newly formed rational forebrain seizing the reigns so quickly that it completely forgot the main driver is still the scared-for-its-life-because-the-world-could-devour-you hindbrain. this primordial fear draws people to collectivist movements - safety in numbers, after all. there is an amazing story about zebras and why their colouring is in that pattern: it's camouflage. that's ridiculous, you might say, there's no natural environment which a zebra could stand against and not be seen as clear as day. all that's true, with one incredibly important exception: the zebra doesn't stand out against its herd! and that's how it survives, by blending in, and that's how we generally survive too. and now a plug bc he's my personal hero and inspiration the last year: if you found this post interesting to read, check out Jordan B Peterson (most of these ideas are taken from him, with the exception of the analogy to a person with a bad habit - that's something I learned a long time from Jeanette Kasper, in a story about creaky floorboards in the kitchen, and I thought it was incredibly fitting).
Wow people can be so rude!! Maybe just me but I don't get anything wrong with what you said and just like you said even if I did or anyone does fine have a reasonable logical debate. Calling you names and coming at you like that is just disrespectful and does not talk about the topic at all! It solves nothing. I see this all the time and the psychology of it does interest me too. Like it actually hurts any argument the person has because they can't come at you with facts or opinions about the topic but have to just curse you and insult you. This helps no one :(
These people that have hit the dislike button are they advocating abuse and harassment?
Damn they need to shh because from what I can see you're beautiful inside and out. I feel like people who have been brought up to believe in gender roles feel threatened by people who are dare to challenge what they believe is right. Also I think it has a lot to do with the environment these people are in. Psychology is so interesting but unfortunately I tend to take everything personally whoops. Note to self: Sort that shit way of thinking out Bri tyty
"dumb bitches gonna bitch" the comments are rude but that was so funny i started to laugh so hard
since i dont want to comment on that video cause itll probably make me upset - I thought that was a good video! The forcing of toxic masculinity is a big issue and i dont know why people got so nasty about it (who am i kidding i do know why but ill never understand it) Anyway just wanna send some love amongst all that hate
Free speech or not...some people just shouldn't be allowed to use the internet.
sure, that'll help.
where do you draw the line though?
woman-splaining haha good one. Also this isn't a feminist thing. It's more of an internet thing where people feel they can do anything when no one knows who they are. It does need to be fixed but I feel people still need to be anonymous.
my personal fav is the 'you're a frog gender, would still bang though'. Fucking excellent. Hah.
well i think you're amazing
Shoe linked this video via Twitter and you seem like a cool person. Gonna subscribe. Needed to see the other side.
These comments are edgy af, btw.
I totally love you for this video. brilliant x
""we both gonna enjoy the silence"" what the fuck this is hilarious what does it mean
We're going to sit together under the stars and drink in the calm, peaceful atmosphere. xxx
Well, that is one way to validate her opinions. What cretins.
I say this as someone who is utterly disappointed in feminists... and everyone else too really.
The comments you receive are horrible, of course, but on the other hand, they're hilarious. These men that leave comments like that, seriously, what are they thinking? They know that they're coming from nothing and adding nothing. They don't even have a point of view, they aren't even saying that Claudia is wrong, just that she needs to stop talking.
Like Virginia Woolf pointed out in "A room of one's own", men behave the way they do because they feel threatened by women. Women and other non-males don't behave this way because they're smarter than that, we don't need to constantly put others down to feel our own worth.
Hammer head sharks are fucking cool
I love your channel and, although I don't agree with you on everything, I find your videos really interesting. You're always very pleasant and you've never been malicious towards people online, so the vitriol you get is completely unjustified. I think a lot of people are very black-and-white about things and brand anyone who has a different viewpoint as them as a bad person. I've seen this happen with both SJWs and anti SJWs (who have more in common then they like to admit, in my opinion.) So some people just immediately jump to the conclusion that you're some man hater because you're a feminist, before even listening to what you have to say. I mean, I thought the toxic masculinity video was actually helpful in dealing with men's issues, as it addressed the root cause of many issues men face, such as male suicide. But these people read the title, misinterpreted it as you calling men toxic, and decided to be dickheads about it.
I wish more people would listen to people with other points of view and simply be open to the idea that their own point of view may not be 100% right. I think the freedom to debate online is a wonderful thing, and it can be a learning experience for both sides. It's such a shame that so many feel the need to attack those with different opinions to them, but I'm glad you're able to rise above that.
Honestly, you should have been chosen for the Vidcon panel about online harassment. I can think of a few people you could have replaced.
you've been on youtube for 4 years!!!!!!
Don't get how anyone can be so hateful :(