I love how Juana’s possible jealous violence against her husband’s mistresses was viewed as evidence of her “madness”, while Henry VIII executed two wives for their supposedly adulterous behaviour, and nobody called him crazy, at least not then!
When a wife of a king is messing around she could get pregnant and put in question the inherentance of the throne causing chaos/wars ..it's treason which is the differents..not defending Henry viii just sayin
I think in the modern world a lot of people would think of Henry as mad. But Juanna literally kep her husbands corpse with her and attacked nuns over his corpse. She appears to have been driven mad but was genuinely mad. Henry was more of a sociopath and a narcissist. Juanna was a victim driven mad by what was happening to her. Two different types of madness. If anything Juanna is the more redeeming of the two because it wasnt really her fault how it all turned out. But Juanna was 100% mad. Only a madwoman would act that way towards a corpse.
@@jamiemohan2049I disagree. We need to remember we are talking about a medieval catholic, to whom a corpse would have a different importance than to you or me. Besides, people can be irrational in moments of grief, wich doesn't mean they are mad
"She was mad/a witch/possessed/touched/hysterical/neurotic" should usually be translated as "she was inconvenient to some prick." Outstanding as usual! Thank you for your work.
I never thought Queen Juana was mad. Claiming that your wife is mad has been the excuse of many husbands (especially rich ones) for sending off their wives to a place to be cared for, while being able to take over all of the wife's assets. I believe Juana may have had a short episode (probably from all the loss in her life), that these men used to their advantage. If she was truely mad, they would not have had to play all these tricks on her to keep her looking mad and feeling helpless.
@@sambun6394 yes, who wouldn’t have some trauma after the way she’d been treated. These days we’d say the men in her life committed emotional abuse and were gaslighting her to think she was crazy. How better to control a powerful woman, than to say she was crazy. She may not have been crazy to start with, but after everything she went through, maybe she was unbalanced by the end.
If I may be a bit silly, I think you argue that Juana was the "Britney Spears" of her day. Both were placed into institutionalization more for the men in their life’s benefit than their own (and the treatment probably made their preexisting mental issues worst!) it’s interesting to see the parallels of how two women with extreme wealth and mental health problems were treated across more than 400 years
@@LuckyEagle640 Yes! After all, everyone has forgotten that she was driving while drinking vodka out of a thermos-with her two very young children in the back seat. That’s what got her in the position she was in!!
On the point of Henry VII’s willingness to marry her, I think it’s perfectly plausible that he would be content to marry Juana and lock her up just like her last husband did. He had been a widower for years and from all accounts a joyless and bitter man. It’s possible he could have fully believed in her insanity and been perfectly willing to marry her just to establish a connection to Spain.
Also, I read somewhere that said he did not care if she were mentally unstable, as it would not affect her fertility. That was another reason Henry wished to marry her; she had successfully produced six living children, and Henry, who was down to one son after Ptince Arthur's death, wanted more male heirs.
Juana spent 4 months in England incl Windsor with her sister Catherine of Aragon (after whom she named her last child, Catherine who lived with her during infancy in Tordesillas, later Queen of Portugal) after being shipwrecked on the English coast. Not a word is written of Juana's mental illness during those 4 long months when meeting leading English royalty or foreign ambassadors and diplomats at court.
There is a TV series called Isabel, portraying the life of Isabel la Católica and the early lives of her children, also it continues with a film called "La corona partida", that portrays the life of Juana, how men around her manipulated her. The character I hate the most is Felipe el hermoso, the portrayal of his behaviour is on point on how abusive men behave
1:42 Juana it appears by all accounts was used and abused by all the men in her life. I feel sorry for her, how horrible to feel hopeless and trapped with no recourse.
The sad thing is it can happen, to some extent, today. No, it's not exactly the same thing but I have personal experience with something that happened that very lightly resembled this and have heard too many horror stories from women on male family members being believed when it comes to police especially or doctors. I'm talking about completely undermining their credibility and that torpedoes their lives or lives of their children. There's a case right now in Utah that ProPublica wrote about if you want to see what I'm talking about.
The way every man in her life completely used and abused her is horrible! Loyalty to family was so deeply ingrained in the women of that family and I don't think it served any of them well (it certainly didn't help Catherine either). In my opinion, Juana may have suffered from bouts of depression, but I don't think she was mad during most of her life. If she did have a mental break, it was probably caused by being locked up for so long and the lies her son told her. That poor woman deserved so much better.
Thank you for a thoughtful, incisive overview of Juana. She may have suffered from post-partum depression, but Juana strikes me as a woman who was disgracefully abused by the men around her. Juana's son Charles V was chronically short of money, so he ordered his servants to raid Juana's chests of silverware & to replace the contents with bricks (so that the chests would not become suspiciously light). Charles consistently mistreated his mother, just as he did many of the other female relatives in his life. Juana didn't stand a chance....
For those of us who learn the history of British Monarchs, it's easy with the benefit of modern sensibilities and the successful reigns of queens to look at Henry VIII's obsession with having a male heir as being vanity, but when your childhood is filled with the stories of Empress Matilda and the fact that Juana would have started her imprisonment at about the time he took the throne, it takes on new context. Regardless of if he really thought she was mad or not, he could clearly see a Queen Regnant having her power usurped by the men in her life, and had to wonder if that would be Mary's fate if the succession was left to her. Especially since she's Juana's niece. Would the pressures of rule cause her to go mad as her aunt did? Or even if he didn't believe she was mad, would Mary's future husband try to usurp her power by claiming she was also mad? What role did this play in the lives of the upcoming queens regnant of England and Scotland? Juana was still alive when Mary Tudor came to her throne for her short reign, and Mary Queen of Scots was already on the throne at the time. Did the fear of men locking up their queen and stealing her power play into their calculus for their own reigns? Elizabeth in particular I think was influenced heavily by the fate of Juana.
Margaret of Anjou and Isabelle of Valois were probably in his horizon as well. England did have some bad bagagge regarding women in power lol, before Elizabeth
The cruelty and greed of every man in her life who should have protected her is heartbreaking. Dr. Kat, I learned new things from you today about her captivity in Castile that only convinces me further that she was never “la Loca” at all. God rest her soul.
She sounds like someone who was in massive distress, in need of help and found nothing but abuse and more trauma. Glad to see a deep dive into her side of things, beyond the fame she received. Love this video! Amazing work! 🥺❤
Juana, “more sinned against than sinning” or mad. The behavior of her relatives towards her, and especially of her son Charles, all contributed to her mental instability, and her confinement and the lies told to her there would have affected negatively even the strongest personality. I have long been saddened by her story and have a strong admiration for her tenacity in surviving to old age in spite of it all.
I don’t believe any of the stories perpetuated against Juana to indicate her “madness”. Knowing a bit more about her sister Catherine’s behavior, I don’t believe she ever had public, violent arguments with anyone, especially her somewhat intimidating, highly respected mother, or used vile language. She no doubt was deeply depressed and grieving after the death of her husband, but deep grief is not insanity, it would have resolved in time and not necessarily hampered her ability to rule. This was nothing but a power grab by the men who surrounded her, including compliant Catholic clergy, who would have done anything asked of them to get a new cathedral or palace built for them in return for their lies. This particular nasty trick, “madness” of the woman, had been used frequently throughout history and I think the more capable and independent a woman was, the more likely it was to be used against her. Compliant or less-capable women would have been allowed to maintain the title and dignity of sovereign with the true power held by the men who ruled “in her name”. As the ancient saying goes: quo bono? Look to who gained what and there’s the answer.
Her Grandmother suffered from mental illness as well as her great grandson Carlos. Ferdinand did what was necessary to save Castilla. All that black legend from the Protestant is nothing but lies.
Ive always been fascinated by her story and never thought she was "mad", it always appeared to me like a story concocted by the men around her to keep her from having any sort of power and agency
There is a line in the movie "Steel Magnolias" when Shirley McLean's character Wheezer, claimed that she not crazy, she's just been in a very bad mood for the last 30 years. I believe that Juanna suffered from both what is known today as.clinical and situational depression. If.a heavy dose of Royal inbreeding is factored in, I think that is pretty much a wonder that this sort of behavior was anything more than a normal day to day experience in most of the Royal houses of the time. Seems that no one was really happy during this time and the only reason that misery enjoys company is to involve or even create others that are more miserable than you just so you can feel better.
Thank you for your work, Dr. Kat. Queen Juana is my 14th great-grandmother. I do not see madness in the accounts of her life, only machinations. Deep in my cellular memory I feel innate outrage for the crimes perpetrated against a thousand years of my female ancestors. So many were women of wisdom and strength used as pawns by the power hungry men in their lives. They were the mad ones.
@@lavieestduresansconfiture4939 She is relevant to me. And because we each have many ancestors does not alter the significance of each individual tree in the vast forest. Life is indeed hard without jam.
I just found your video on U-tube a few hours ago. Last night I discovered that she is my 16th Great Grandmother, and also my line of descent from Maximillian 1, 17 Great Grandfather. I am just getting over all my close relatives who were wives and mistresses of Henry VIII. He was a 1st Cousin about 14 times removed. My ancestors were Aurthur Plantagenet Henry VIII 's uncle, and Mary Boleyn who was one of his mistresses. So interesting to have so many relatives executed during his Reign. Yet I can't claim a drop of Tudor blood. Thanks again Dr. Kat!!!
She is my ancestor as well, along with most of the world's royal families. I myself have Bipolar Disorder. I often wonder if everyone today who suffers from genetic mental disorders, got it from them.
I’m so excited for this episode. Super strong feelings about how her father and her son took advantage of the history of what we now call mental illness in her maternal lineage but I’m dying to hear your take!
Her father, her son and her husband too. My mother and I did a lot of cooperative research into Juana, her mother and the history around them, and I'm now neck-deep in re-examining Juana's life, reading the relatively new works from Gillian Fleming and Bethany Aram. Looking forward to Dr Kat's views on this terrible life story.
@@melenatorr I thought I remembered her husband being involved too but since his death contributes to the talk about Juana’s mental illness, I couldn’t be sure and didn’t want to say anything wrong. Thank you for clarifying that!
@@AgnesC1111 Well, so far as it goes ... without excusing the intolerable things they did, neither Isabel nor Fernando seemed particularly "mad"; nor did daughter Catherine. I'm becoming convinced that a great deal of what's come down to us about Juana has been blown way out of proportion, especially when we have several letters and reports from people who managed to break past physical barriers set by Philip, Fernando or Charles, and who said she seemed not only all right but sharp, intelligent, and capable. Enriquez, the Admiral of Castile, knew her very well. While in Castile in 1506, Philip was trying to convince everyone she was unfit. Enriquez spent 10 hours in close conversation with her and disagreed. Her secretary stated she had more common sense than Isabel.
@@leiamar84 The sad thing is, the couple did start out fairly well: they even had a question and answer motto. Philip's translated to "Who wants it?" and Juana's was "I do". On more important matters, things got bad very quickly: Instead of doweries, a sort of mutual allowance for both Juana and Margaret (Philip's sister, sent to marry Juan, Juana's brother) was set up. Philip almost never supplied Juana with these funds, which she needed to pay her household and to grow a coalition of loyalty around her. Her basic mission was to uphold Spanish interests in Flanders, but Philip's advisors were pro-French and political tensions began to grow and only got catastrophically worse. He (and/or his advisors - Philip was affable, but intellectually lazy) began spreading negative news about Juana as soon as her status as heir to Castile emerged. During the last months of Isabel's life, Philip sent reports of Juana's behavior which may or may not have been fully accurate. But in a typically-foxy twist, Fernando took these reports after Isabel's death to bolster his own position against Philip .... but ultimately against his own daughter. Philip was never a match for Fernando. Unfortunately, though Juana may have been, she was at a disadvantage before she ever even started.
Betrayed by both father and son, dragging her husband’s decaying body along with her. No wonder they chose to conveniently lock her up as “mad”. I have nothing but contempt for Ferdinand of Aragon, lying to his dying wife and stealing his daughter’s inheritance ! Thank you Dr. Kat for speaking for the marginalized!
I've seen some questions raised before about Juana's alleged "madness". Really appreciate the level of depth you've gone into here, not just contextualizing the claims, but also talking about the biases of the different sources (and whether their claims were consistent with other actions at the time). Englightening and engaging video!
Thank you, Dr. Kat, for correcting the 'popular,' patriarchal record about another woman oppressed and undone by the men around her. I am reminded of so many of your previous talks, for example talks about Queen Mary I, Anne of Cleves, and so many others. Thank you for your truthful, feminist, revisionist, and necessary historical corrections. 💜
Thank you for this! I had not heard of the “gaslighting” on the part of Denia and Carlos V, but this only solidifies my contempt for all of the men in her life. None of Isabel’s children escaped early death or tragedy. Again, thank you for this post.
I think depression is certainly on the table. She lost a LOT of loved ones in a short space of time, coupled with losing a husband that she was madly in love with. The poor woman was broken, and treated so poorly by her power-hungry father
I think poor Juana was a pawn in the games of her father, husband and son. Her son should have had more regard for the well being of his mother than he did. Such a shame that her life was a misery.
I only found you recently through the Jane Austen "Balls" documentary and am enjoying your content. I love the questions you ask. I enjoy television dramas which make me inquire more deeply into history and The Spanish Princess introduced me to Juana. In 2019 I walked Camino Frances and spent a few extra days in Madrid where I went to the Prado and saw the famous painting...truly awe-inspiring in its size, and wondrous depiction of the scenes described from the journey.
Psychology is complicated. Hearing Juana’s story, and all the various diagnoses that were hurled her way, it seems that many key things were missed. The issue of her environment must be considered and how she was treated by those who locked her up. That in itself would lead to trauma and could, in turn actually have with it some psychological issues. These could have been addressed in our time, but we can’t look back in time and judge a person for not having treatment that wasn’t available. We will never know for sure, but with certain clues being there, like the trip to England, I do not see a clear cut case for a debilitating illness. At most something that was brought on by the very people who were declaring her unfit to begin.
Have always found the story of Juana fascinating. I'm not convinced she was mad, but clearly, anything is possible. She was extraordinarily bright and talented. I think the three significant men in her life were very suspicious. I'm glad you have chosen to cover her story. Thank you, Dr. Kat.
Commenting before I watch, BUT in anticipation of another brilliant bedtime video (it's midnight here in malaysia), i wanted to ask; I recently watches your video on our misconceptions around literacy during the tudor period, and enjoyed it immensely, and wondered if you would consider doing a similar video on just how violent the life of the average person living in tudor England was? I think we are often presented with the idea that life was "nasty, brutish and short", with the threat of extreme violence around every corner (especially for women) but would the life of the average villager really be so lacking in peace? Right, now to settle in and watch this video!
I am enjoying the conversation below and even though this was done five months ago I’m just seeing it now and want to offer my thanks for this channel. As a history minor and later, getting my PhD in religious history, I find these stories of historical figures that I had not heard of incredibly intriguing, and your coverage of them is perfect. Much like I encourage my students to think for themselves, you encourage us to weigh the evidence and think for ourselves. By the way in which you presented the evidence this particular time leads me to believe that she was not insane by any means. She may, however, have truly been grieving her husband and the life that maybe she wanted to have with him when she acted out against the women that he was involved with and then other courtiers, and so maybe it was somewhere in between? perhaps she was experiencing some depression and yet at the same time she was also being very careful within the confines that she was given to try and protect her self, her children, etc. I agree with someone who mentioned earlier that elizabeth may have learned from her. I’m sure many a Monarch heard the cautionary tale and decided to try a different tack because of it. I do see similar references to Mary queen of Scots as to her mental health, so it would not be unheard of that this tactic would be used regularly to control women even at the highest rank and ability. we certainly see enough diagnoses of hysteria in the 19th century and schizophrenia in the 20th century used to control women. Thank you again.
Very fascinating, I never knew she was a real person! Growing up I always heard my grandmother (who was born in Mexico City but my family lives in the States now) use the phrase “como Juana la loca” but i always thought it was just an expression!! Now that we’ve seen in our lifetimes examples of women in positions of immense wealth and status be completely taken advantage of by her hangers-on and abused by people trying to advance themselves by doing so I think we have so much more an idea of all the times in the past we have heard stories of “crazy women” who “needed” to be kept basically hostage. So sad but so interesting to finally get a more nuanced take on this history, thank you so much for sharing!
Yey! Thanks, Dr. Kat for making this video! I loved it! Excellent Spanish pronunciation by the way. Enhorabuena!. Some thoughts: 1) I think Juana was very likely emotionally neglected since childhood, surely traumatized, and literally tortured by the people who were supposed to love her, so I am not a psychologist but is possible she developed PTSD, mental illness, or had a personality disorder that was amplified by the conditions she endured (Stockholm syndrome also comes to mind) Nowadays she will be treated with therapy, medication, and/or a change in her living conditions and relationships and perhaps have a reasonably normal and successful life. . 2) I think perhaps the problem of a woman ruling Castille and Aragon (united) was not as big in Castille (given her mother's precedent) as it was in Aragon where women couldn't inherit the crown of Aragon and that was a very complicated matter to resolve without causing a big crisis in Aragon. In fact, soon after Isabella's death, Ferdinand remarried and tried to have a male heir but died after birth. . 3) Legally I think that when Juana married Phillip nobody considered her an heir-to-be (because so many unimaginable tragedies had to occur for her to be the heir) so, perhaps there wasn't a proper agreement of marriage with Phillip taking into consideration the rights and the limits her husband as King consort of Castile and Aragon should have, i.e.: like the one Isabela and Ferdinand made regulating the King consort limits. 4) As to why didn't Ferdinand support his daughter Juana more: Also, why didn't Isabella support her daughter more? Is said that Isabella wasn't confident of Juana's capabilities, so maybe he was just following Isabella's last wishes? / Or maybe, in his mind, some women (like Isabella) were more equal to men than others? / Perhaps, he saw Phillip Hasburg as the root of all Juana's problems yet once Phillip was removed Juana didn't behave as expected? / Could it be that the character assassination of Juana went so far that rehabilitating her after Phillip's death was not possible? / Or simply Ferdinand didn't like his daughter? Did he resent her for surviving while his heir Juan died? Is not exaggerated for me to assume that Ferdinand II had grief transformed into anger directed at Juana. Again thanks for the video, fascinating subject
Thank you very much for this insightfull and sympathetic video. Juana deserves a wider knowledge and recognition of her life story. And, in my humble opinion, you did her justice by pointing out this centurys old "Juana the Mad"-narrative. Personally, i think she was betrayed and so to say buried alive by her own Family, and not mentally ill.
@@di3486 i know. I'm from Germany, and "stumbled" over her Story many years ago by Chance. I think it's important to give non-spanish-speakers the opportunity to learn about Juana. Wich Dr. Kat did with this Video 😊
Fascinating story, well told! I would purely love to see a movie based on your take on this story. Your research is exhaustive, your perspective is balanced; with a really good cast and an accurate costumier it would be a movie we'd watch over and over. Thank you! What a great start to our day!
Julia Giles: There is a 2001 film called "Mad Love" or "Juana la Loca," with Pilar López de Ayala portraying Juana. Alas, it is not terribly accurate -- but at least it suggests that Juana was sane. I agree with you: Dr. Kat would create a better script if she simply told the truth about Juana.
Absolutely fantastic video! I have read a lot about her and my opinion is that she was betrayed by her Father, husband and son. They wanted power and that was the only way to get it.
I really admire you. My eyesight is bad, it's not safe for me to walk down the street without my glasses, it's not that bad. I push myself through difficult situations because of you. I'm disabled but if this blind dude can surf, I can do this! TY 😻
It's amazing how long trauma has been misdignosed as mental illness. It's 2024 and we are finally recognizing this fact. Always enjoy your spin on history. I often come back and watch again and always learn something new. Thanks Dr. Kat. 👑
Just like Erzebet (Elizabeth) Bathory and her serial killing story, I’ve always wondered how much of this story is true for Joanna/Juana. It’s so wild to think in a time where women had so few rights vs men, and her then being from a family that had more equal women ruling figures , that she ended up with a shite man who needed to do away with her in many ways just to gain control. Ick. I see so many parallels between the king in Erzebet Bathory story (aside from murders piece) where the king may have staged a story to take the power of the money and estate of a woman. I think from what I’ve studied over the last years that Juana probably had SOME form of being “out of line/out of control” but to lock her away just doesn’t seem right or ok and had a lot more to do with men and power than what Juana truly was. There are examples of her being Lucid that seems many found her to be fine.
It's very common for people who have some kind of mental stability to have that used as an excuse to have them declared unfit to whatever other people want to take control of. It's not easy to do that without any precedent that can be blown out of proportion (although certainly possible), but fully capable people with some sort of mental issue are frequently victims of that kind of stuff
I see some important similarities between Juana's life experience and what happened to the Empress Mathilda. Both were on the receiving end of plots to sideline them. In both cases the continual emotional turmoil had to cause injuries. In the case of the Empress, she had nobles who for years went to battle for her. Juana had no real battle hardened warriors loyal to her. Both ended their lives basically sequestered.
I didn't know anything about Juana before, that is the magic of your videos... you make me care about historical figures who I had been previously unaware of. Thanks for the great content!
Thank you so much! The struggle between love and power was obviously the largest factor of Juanas life, and a horrific abuse of her by those that she loved. Wonderful talk, Dr. Kat. I knew this was a subject you would be able to put some teeth on! Imo Juana was possibly fragile mentally but only because of trauma ,grief , and conflicting emotions about her abusers.
Excellent point about Juana's supposed madness not being serious enough that her husband, who otherwise lead the charge of proclaiming her mad, thought she was competent to handle sexual relations, pregnancy, and childbirth. I try to have sympathy for her son, since at 16 years old he was also likely a puppet for older, more experienced men to some degree or another, but geez was he a terrible kid. She really showed a mother's love to not support the rebels offering her freedom (or "freedom" since of course it'd have strings attached) in order to protect her son.
I would dispute that Phillip necessarily found Juana sufficiently sane to have sex with. After all, he was her husband and he had the right to use her body when he saw fit irrespective of her state of health, mental or physical, whether it was to her detriment or not. All he had to do was give her clip over the ear to subdue her and get on with the business of his conjugal rights
Good evening, Dr. Kat! I've enjoyed your videos for a very long time. I was particularly pleased in the way you covered the history of Juana of Castile in a sympathetic light. Only one other historian, Townsend Miller, did so in his "The Castles and the Crowns." Miller stated that Juana was the most intelligent of her family but also somewhat finally tuned and her neurotic behavior began to manifest itself only after she had been sent to the Netherlands to marry Philip of Habsburg. There, despite being in lust with her husband ( To quote William Cecil about the marriage of Robert Dudley and Amy Robsart, "A marriage begun in lust and ended in sorrow"), she was isolated politically, economically ( as part of the double marriage between herself and Philip and her brother and Philip's sister, no dowries were exchanged) and socially. Philip's frequent love affairs did not help her achieve peace of mind, either. Both Philip and her father portrayed her as mad to keep power in their own hands and when her father finally imprisoned her in Tordesillas, her jailers sought to drive her mad. On the other hand, Juana's older sister Isabel suffered from melancholy after her first husband's death and Isabel the Catholic's own mother spend the last decades of her life in confinement because of her mental derangement, so Juan came by her neurotic behavior quite honestly. Thanks for sharing!
From my point of view, Juana suffered from an acute depression worsened by the death of her husband. In addition to his, his temper was the perfect excuse for Phillip to put her aside during his bid to take the crown and then also used by her father and her son. Her behaviour after Phillip's death has been so deeply manipulated and rewritten that, frankly speaking, I do not dare to try even to explain what happen then.
dr kat i just want to say thank you for everything you do🫶🏻 this video and all your others are presented in such a way that even someone like me, who has really severe adhd, can easily take in every word and digest it. i dont need the information to be written down or beaten into my head, but just presented in a concise, well-paced and interactive manner. i cant even imagine what a great teacher you’d be irl. i always agree with everything you say, and when you bring up your dyslexia, it just reminds me that all of us neurodivergent girlies can be and ARE just as brilliant and well put together as you are. again, thank you for these videos. they keep me sane ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Juana's obsession with her husband's corpse, refusing to bury the body and taking it everywhere with her was certainly odd. and rightly raised questions about her sanity. BUT there is great reason to believe her father was intent on continuing to rule Castile and had every reason to have her declared insane and she spent the next 30 years of her life in isolation in a castle in the middle of nowhere. So there's a bit of both. She submitted to interviews during the period of her enforced isolation but was still find to be sensible. So who knows.
Although it's been shown that the stories of her obsession were just that: stories. Her plan was to transport the body from the north to Granada for burial near Isabel (and this was Philip's own wish). She used the opportunity as an attempt to get out of the hands of Cisneros, who was acting as regent and was initiating a power struggle with her. They were all waiting for Fernando to get back to Castile. He was in Naples and Aragon all this time, attending to business and testing the wind in Castile. Biding his time.
Wow this is all so fascinating, I didn't know the half of it! I used to live in Spain for many years and first came across 'Juana La Loca' in James Michener's 'Iberia', in the chapter where he visits Tordesillas. The parade of fake coffins, dios mio, Spain truly is a land of the Gothic and the surreal! And it was years before I realised that Juana was Catherine of Aragon's sister. Dr Kat, I'm really enjoying your articulate and balanced talks on these historical topics, thank you.
by the sound of it the only sign of "insanity" (as opposed to probably crushing depression and anxiety she otherwise had to live with due to actions of her family) was her treatment of her husband's corpse. If true, she may have had mental breakdown, and the pregnancy may have exaggerated her symptoms. This does not mean she was "mad" - a lot of people would probably struggle in this situation
I am leaving. Not because I dislike your channel, far from it. It has given me hours of immense joy and plenty of intellectual fulfillment. It just doesn't work for me any more. I owe you great gratitude, because you found it in you to hear me out when very fiew else would. Don't fret, this is not a suicide note, I'm just entering a new phase right now. Thank you for everything, Dr Kat!
I'm so excited! She is my 14th great-grandmother...and as you can see, I'm named after. Her father...uuggghh!!! She was surrounded by men who viewed her as a means to an end of their being able to capture her power...for themselves. Men are not accustomed to powerful, intelligent women and have to resort to alluding the women are "crazy" in order to usurp their power, taking advantage of the woman's perceived physical weakness in obtaining their power.
If hatred of your husband's mistresses is a sign of violent insanity, I have to wonder why mental hospitals aren't bursting at the seams! Intelligent, well-educated woman entitled to a great deal of power. Power-hungry men able to exert physical control of said woman. Did it matter whether she was mad or not?
Really interesting. I see how treating her husband's body like that would have been a good way of reminding everyone of his and thus HER status. I'd never thought of that angle but actually that would be a clever PR move although if he was good looking and charismatic she probably did have strong feelings for him as well. Nowadays we are all being subjected to that sort of gas lighting.
If you get told something about yourself enough, you can come to believe it. If I were locked up like that, if everyone was telling me I was insane...if enough time passed... It would be easy to play at madness for political/marital reasons and then to have everyone else run away with it.
Great video! I'm Spaniard so I'm familiarised with Juana's story, legend, and speculations about her mental health. Her life was romanticised by a lot of Romantic writers. You should look into Galician noblewoman Inés de Castro. Her forbidden love with the then prince of Portugal Pedro I, her assassination, and his revenge against her killers once he was crowned king are book and film material. Her half sister, Juana de Castro "la desamada" (the unloved?) also had an "interesting" life. She married Pedro "The Cruel" of Castile but he was already married to Blanca de Borbon. Their marriage was declared invalid and Juana retired to a castle. She was lucky, tho. Blanca, on the other hand, was imprisoned and assassinated by her husband's orders. He was an ass.
I definitely think Philip was a cold, cold man, possibly disordered himself. As for Juana, I have read a couple stories of her acting erratic (climbing the walls outside her parent's castle while screaming, frothing, etc., carving with a knife into the floor to get to the floor below when her husband locked her up in a room). If these stories are to be believed, she did seem at least to possibly have had a couple mental breakdowns at the very least, but this doesn't make you crazy, people in those days just didn't understand mental health, and the fact that she was a woman made her easier to throw away. However, according to the book Sister Queens by Julia Fox, Juana was not allowed to meet her sister or Henry VII for very long during her stay in England supposedly because Philip tried to keep her from them (either because she was mad or because he didn't want people to see she was sane).
I would have to err towards the latter reasoning for Phillip trying to keep her from interacting with them. It certainly makes the most purely logical (if rather sick) sense. He couldn't risk having his narrative undermined.
a case can be made for all of the possibilities that you prepose while the romantic in me would love to pick the betrayed queen option i think the only right choice is not to pick any option and just enjoy the speculations and your video
I was looking for a deep dive history channel featuring someone with a soothing voice, then i see that one of your most recent videos is about Juana of Castile…I don’t think I’ve ever clicked subscribe so fast! Would you ever consider making content about any of Juana’s descendants, the Habsburgs?
This is my first time watching a video of yours & I really enjoyed it. you ask great questions to consider in the conversations that haven’t been asked enough. it triggers my personal passion for behaviour & emotion reading so here's my rambling logic In my personal opinion, this is a narcissistic abuse situation for that time period. The decisions made & reactions are just so precise to this particular pattern, I have a hard time not viewing it as this. Plus there’s the social fundamentals of the time as well, sexism & self importance & social hierarchy which cast a filter on how the information is presented & digested. Here are some shared patterns for the people involved in these situations: Juana, the main victim: 1. Intense devotion while being love bombed 2. Intense confusion when love become contradictory & painful 3. Anger issues after prolonged pain 4. Emotional immaturity after prolonged pain 5. Brainwashed behaviour, loving someone who you know brings you pain because there’s nothing else that you’ve been given purpose for 6. Complete devotion to their children, a purpose in life that is undeniably connected to her existence (value) 7. Patterns of emotional immaturity 8. Previous role models in her developmental years appear to have the same type of behaviour (father, brothers, owners, masters, husbands) 9. Complete mistrust & distancing from others 10. Disagreeable/unlikeable martyring behaviours 11. Mirroring/reflecting of narcissistic behaviours 12. Is highly isolated when they don’t want to be 13. Will choose isolation when the situation changes because isolation is the most familiar feeling after prolonged endurance of it 14. Impaired socialization. Could be too talkative, accusational, angry, giddy, awkward, etc. The isolation limited her social setting so it limited her social interactions & experiences. 15. Compassion fatigue & then guilt cycle 16. Close people retaliate & lash out on her behalf Child of the narcissistic abuse relationship: 1. Ends up resenting the victimized parent & will begin distancing behaviour where possible. Most notable when the child gets to an age of independence 2. At young ages children will relate most to the parent who has the most influence on them. No matter how loving & nurturing or hateful & neglectful, a violent temper or painful damage will be more overpowering to a child. Then they’ll usually appeal & submit to the biggest threat they perceive, so if there’s intense pain in their environment, they’ll be reacting to the cause of the pain the most. Usually a good abuser identification tool that’s become weakened with overuse for an under experienced person using this tool. It’ll break & the user will be too young to repair it, then usually a parental narcissistic abuse relationship gets joined by a romantic narcissistic abuse relationship. The child will either become the narcissist & the victim of a narcissist, or they’ll just be a continued victim of narcissism 3. Children usually relate to the parent with the same gender as them first 4. Emotional regulation issues 5. Compassion fatigue & confusion Narcissist: 1. Love bombs to captivate 2. Attracted to emotional people who display emotions they normally aren’t comfortable/familiar with 3. Becomes competitive with the authentic person’s emotional displays either by frustration for weakness or negativity associated with the emotions or jealous of the authentic person’s comfort with the uncomfortable or strength to endure it. Lashes out & mistreats the person 4. Realizes how much they crave the attention or resource the authentic person offers them & love bombs them again. Will deepen & pressure the feeling of love as much as needed, shamelessly & often violently in one if not multiple ways (emotionally, psychologically, socially, physically, financially, sexually, etc) 5. Devotes time & effort to a smear campaign to make memories of the victim appear to be more problematic than they actually are while simultaneously trying to hide themselves 6. Intense self victimization without emotional or compassionate growth or maturity 7. Relishes in both power & victimhood simultaneously even when it’s contradictory 8. Refusal to make personal sacrifices. Usually manifests as the other person being severely put down for the compensation to take place. Often shows as health issues from the prolonged stress in the victims 9. Has multiple victims & will have them do their bidding by framing their own perpetrating behaviour as someone else’s fault somehow, so the anger gets deferred to someone else. Pits people against each other. 10. Will send people after the victim to harass & intimidate them. The less the love bombing works, the more intense the harassment & the accusations will be 11. Threatens & bullies easily & often, though it might not often be in front of more than a few people at a time. This keeps others from criticizing & contradicting in a way that might reveal their lies & bad behaviour I could go on quite a bit. The main decider for me is a person that’s truly “mad” or mentally broken doesn’t have the strength to resist. They could’ve convinced, abused & coerced her into a lot of useful ventures & signatures if she was mentally dependent. But the shift from intense dependency on him while maintaining intense independent self control in front of him until she was really breaking with hormones & being worn down is big for me. Then the refusal to obey & come back, even when they started out nice & diplomatic & described her of sound mind even if it was transactionally….it’s giving emotional reactivity when they changed it. She seems pretty resolute throughout imprisonment too. The types of mental illness they describe display instability far quicker than it seems like she has in situations like imprisonment. If she was acting out a lot, they would’ve had a ton of publication with unique events that were ammunition to slander. They don’t, they have a lot of publication with little uniqueness so they’re repetitive as if no one learned anything from the first times it was happening. My hypothesis for the smear campaign is if she was such an interesting case study during the time of publishing the gossip & news, there would’ve more consolidated archives of more detailed & unique examples from repeated exposure to their claims. Hormones & health issues definitely don’t help either. Especially pregnancy ones, where there’s constant reminders of personal & bodily sacrifice by someone else who may not even value your bodily & sexual consent if they’re already removing all your social consent & disregarding your humanity. During a time with high childbirth mortality for women. A lot of emotions to go around with very few solutions, that’s not madness that’s a typical response to an overpressurized situation. the contents of the situation tend to explode
Let us just say, that I believe wanna was terribly I'm hearing lots of self-protection measures being taken by her because she is in such a delicate position and should have power they don't want her to have.
Loved this video 😊 I had always heard about Juana la Loca. A few months ago I came across TH-cam clips of La Corona Partida. This was a Spanish novella that went into the lives of Isabel and Ferdinand Castille and Aarogan and then the life of Juana. This was actually a pretty good TV series. The series aired in 2016 and does have English subtitles.
Thank you for your in-depth look at this fascinating woman. Like her mother, Isabel, she was a threat to the men around her. I appreciate the breadth of information you provided for this long misunderstood and misrepresented woman.
Amazing video - one of your best yet, Dr. Kat. I enjoy your balanced account. Why does Juana not have her own Netflix series yet? Why does Dr. Kat not have her own Netflix documentary yet??
I think her willingness to travel through Francis just a sign of being a brilliant politician I mean either she's able just to pass through or she's accosted and any and all support in her husband's court for France basically banishes instantly and if they detained her even nevermind anyting more serious than that likely that war would almost be immediately declared against them which would Aid her parents it sounds like she was far more politically astute than her parents were
Thank you for this insightful look at a queen I haven’t known much about beyond the “fact” that her madness showed most prominently after the death of her husband. I always put it down to that love being more strongly felt than most because royal marriages were more about “business” than pleasure. I’m am saddened to learn the truth of the matter. I know throughout history women were treated as lesser unless they had strong personalities like Eleanor of Aquitain or came from progressive families who were okay with their daughters being intelligent enough to rule in her own right. I half expect a husband and those in a foreign court to undermine her, but her parents were no different. Thank you for setting the record straight in my mind. I love all of your videos I’ve watched.
Fantastic video. Thoroughly enjoyed from start to finish. I love Kat's content anyway but I particularly loved this topic and discussion. Dr Kat certainly put forward a very convincing case. The evidence or lack of regarding Juana's purported madness looks so very flimsy.
Dr Kat...thoroughly enjoyed this . Also, want to say...that beautiful violet colour absolutely suits you beautifully. Definitely your colour ...and so royal ..therefore so apropos
I’m on the side of both. I’ve always viewed her as having some genetic madness and some situational madness.Given her family tree it wouldn’t be surprising but those around her made it much much worse.Given the interconnectedness of the royal families and the restrictions the women especially were under I’d be more surprising to not see at least signs of mild mental illness. I,myself,have mental health issues tied to personal and familial genetics as well as my experiences.
Gosh, this narative makes sense of course, because even in the 1800's and earlyish 1900's women were considered 'Hysterical' when they had PMS or depression (or disagree syndrome lol). This is the way it's been all through history. Great video! 🤓 I do not believe she started out mad, however it would be perfectly normal, I think, to go mad from all the abuse and isolation.
I found a super fascinating series that features Juana and most of the main characters of her family called Dynasty it’s in Spanish but they did have from what I recall English subtitles for anyone interested thanks again for the great work Dr. Kat ❤💛🇪🇸
As an abuse survivor, I know the strategy of submission for survival. Juana was highly compliant and, I suspect, felt completely helpless in a world designed to keep her in an ivory tower with men in charge of her person and assets. I think she felt hopeless and powerless, and the men in her life kept her that way. It's ironic that she lived 75 years when everyone else in her family died fairly young. What difference would she have made if she had grasped power and been a stable ruling monarch in an unstable political world?
Wow just came across this video and I can’t believe all the research that went into this. Would you consider making a video about the rise to power of Isabel of Castilla and her secret marriage? I find it to be a really interesting topic.
I think Juana's greatest misfortune was to be born a woman among a group of power hungry, conniving men. Her father Ferdinand, if I remember correctly, dragged his feet about paying his daughter Catherine's dowry to Henry Tudor and she had to beg for money for basic needs. I don't know anything much about Juana's husband Phillip but assume he was probably cut from the same cloth. Also unfortunately for Juana, she was intelligent and well-educated. That would have made it difficult for her to be entirely submissive. Again, looking to her sister Catherine in England, these two women were not door mats when it came to the machinations of the men around them. A number of the claims of madness seem fabricated. And there would be little she could do to defend herself. Thank you so much for offering up this interesting and intriguing perspective on a poorly used Queen.
I love how Juana’s possible jealous violence against her husband’s mistresses was viewed as evidence of her “madness”, while Henry VIII executed two wives for their supposedly adulterous behaviour, and nobody called him crazy, at least not then!
When a wife of a king is messing around she could get pregnant and put in question the inherentance of the throne causing chaos/wars ..it's treason which is the differents..not defending Henry viii just sayin
I think in the modern world a lot of people would think of Henry as mad. But Juanna literally kep her husbands corpse with her and attacked nuns over his corpse. She appears to have been driven mad but was genuinely mad. Henry was more of a sociopath and a narcissist. Juanna was a victim driven mad by what was happening to her. Two different types of madness. If anything Juanna is the more redeeming of the two because it wasnt really her fault how it all turned out. But Juanna was 100% mad. Only a madwoman would act that way towards a corpse.
@@jamiemohan2049 she wasn't mad. those that claim that and excuse those who abused her and spread those rumors are mad, aka people like you
@@jamiemohan2049I disagree. We need to remember we are talking about a medieval catholic, to whom a corpse would have a different importance than to you or me. Besides, people can be irrational in moments of grief, wich doesn't mean they are mad
Probably because he would kill them too.
"She was mad/a witch/possessed/touched/hysterical/neurotic" should usually be translated as "she was inconvenient to some prick."
Outstanding as usual! Thank you for your work.
Well said. 😊
So damn true
I never thought Queen Juana was mad. Claiming that your wife is mad has been the excuse of many husbands (especially rich ones) for sending off their wives to a place to be cared for, while being able to take over all of the wife's assets. I believe Juana may have had a short episode (probably from all the loss in her life), that these men used to their advantage. If she was truely mad, they would not have had to play all these tricks on her to keep her looking mad and feeling helpless.
Or some fits like any of us. Holding onto her husbands body like she did idk but i agree she was used. past actions came back to haunt her
👍
@@sambun6394 yes, who wouldn’t have some trauma after the way she’d been treated. These days we’d say the men in her life committed emotional abuse and were gaslighting her to think she was crazy. How better to control a powerful woman, than to say she was crazy. She may not have been crazy to start with, but after everything she went through, maybe she was unbalanced by the end.
Junaid was possibly driven mad by her family. I never knew much about her, however it doesn't look like any family member was helpful to her,?????
Its called hysteria for a reason 😉. Fantastic comment, sums it up perfectly 🖤
A truly hearthbreaking tale, Juana deserved much better.
Being a Royal political woman during that time with lack of control, ongoing stress, political unrest was enough to make you go crazy.
If I may be a bit silly, I think you argue that Juana was the "Britney Spears" of her day. Both were placed into institutionalization more for the men in their life’s benefit than their own (and the treatment probably made their preexisting mental issues worst!) it’s interesting to see the parallels of how two women with extreme wealth and mental health problems were treated across more than 400 years
Very astute!
Britney Spears is really crazy though lol
@@LuckyEagle640 Yes! After all, everyone has forgotten that she was driving while drinking vodka out of a thermos-with her two very young children in the back seat. That’s what got her in the position she was in!!
@@LuckyEagle640 No, she has a mental illness that is quite managable.
Um, but sorry, Brittney really DOES have some serious mental issues. She’s all “free” now, and still is doing, well, …..
On the point of Henry VII’s willingness to marry her, I think it’s perfectly plausible that he would be content to marry Juana and lock her up just like her last husband did. He had been a widower for years and from all accounts a joyless and bitter man. It’s possible he could have fully believed in her insanity and been perfectly willing to marry her just to establish a connection to Spain.
Also, I read somewhere that said he did not care if she were mentally unstable, as it would not affect her fertility. That was another reason Henry wished to marry her; she had successfully produced six living children, and Henry, who was down to one son after Ptince Arthur's death, wanted more male heirs.
He was bitter and joyless by all POPULAR accounts; he was actually friendly and affectionate, just not with everyone.
@@christopherbrown5409 by all accounts, he was kind and thoughtful to the women in his life.
Juana spent 4 months in England incl Windsor with her sister Catherine of Aragon (after whom she named her last child, Catherine who lived with her during infancy in Tordesillas, later Queen of Portugal) after being shipwrecked on the English coast. Not a word is written of Juana's mental illness during those 4 long months when meeting leading English royalty or foreign ambassadors and diplomats at court.
If Juana were mad, her family drove her to it. I now like Charles V even less than I did before.
What about her dad, Ferdinand??? He was the one desperate for power!!!
There is a TV series called Isabel, portraying the life of Isabel la Católica and the early lives of her children, also it continues with a film called "La corona partida", that portrays the life of Juana, how men around her manipulated her. The character I hate the most is Felipe el hermoso, the portrayal of his behaviour is on point on how abusive men behave
1:42 Juana it appears by all accounts was used and abused by all the men in her life. I feel sorry for her, how horrible to feel hopeless and trapped with no recourse.
@@joannathesinger770The men in her life failed her in every respect: her father, her husband and her son!
@@ElizabethMcCormick-s2nNo argument from me!!!
Poor Juana!
It was so easy for men to have inconvenient women in their power declared insane and locked away.
Yes, men had control of their armies.
The sad thing is it can happen, to some extent, today. No, it's not exactly the same thing but I have personal experience with something that happened that very lightly resembled this and have heard too many horror stories from women on male family members being believed when it comes to police especially or doctors. I'm talking about completely undermining their credibility and that torpedoes their lives or lives of their children.
There's a case right now in Utah that ProPublica wrote about if you want to see what I'm talking about.
Unfortunately, although much better, this isn't completely unseen today. For an example everyone knows, similar things happened to Britney spears
@@LenaFerrari omg please stop with britney spears she got freed and still acts crazy
The way every man in her life completely used and abused her is horrible! Loyalty to family was so deeply ingrained in the women of that family and I don't think it served any of them well (it certainly didn't help Catherine either). In my opinion, Juana may have suffered from bouts of depression, but I don't think she was mad during most of her life. If she did have a mental break, it was probably caused by being locked up for so long and the lies her son told her. That poor woman deserved so much better.
Thank you for a thoughtful, incisive overview of Juana. She may have suffered from post-partum depression, but Juana strikes me as a woman who was disgracefully abused by the men around her. Juana's son Charles V was chronically short of money, so he ordered his servants to raid Juana's chests of silverware & to replace the contents with bricks (so that the chests would not become suspiciously light). Charles consistently mistreated his mother, just as he did many of the other female relatives in his life. Juana didn't stand a chance....
For those of us who learn the history of British Monarchs, it's easy with the benefit of modern sensibilities and the successful reigns of queens to look at Henry VIII's obsession with having a male heir as being vanity, but when your childhood is filled with the stories of Empress Matilda and the fact that Juana would have started her imprisonment at about the time he took the throne, it takes on new context. Regardless of if he really thought she was mad or not, he could clearly see a Queen Regnant having her power usurped by the men in her life, and had to wonder if that would be Mary's fate if the succession was left to her. Especially since she's Juana's niece. Would the pressures of rule cause her to go mad as her aunt did? Or even if he didn't believe she was mad, would Mary's future husband try to usurp her power by claiming she was also mad?
What role did this play in the lives of the upcoming queens regnant of England and Scotland? Juana was still alive when Mary Tudor came to her throne for her short reign, and Mary Queen of Scots was already on the throne at the time. Did the fear of men locking up their queen and stealing her power play into their calculus for their own reigns? Elizabeth in particular I think was influenced heavily by the fate of Juana.
Margaret of Anjou and Isabelle of Valois were probably in his horizon as well. England did have some bad bagagge regarding women in power lol, before Elizabeth
Why would Henry Vll ask for her hand in marriage when she became a widow if she was insane? He had met the woman.
@@iamauntmeem where did I say anything about Henry VII? I think you need to reread what I actually said.
The cruelty and greed of every man in her life who should have protected her is heartbreaking. Dr. Kat, I learned new things from you today about her captivity in Castile that only convinces me further that she was never “la Loca” at all. God rest her soul.
She sounds like someone who was in massive distress, in need of help and found nothing but abuse and more trauma. Glad to see a deep dive into her side of things, beyond the fame she received.
Love this video! Amazing work! 🥺❤
My heart has always bled for this tormented woman...
Juana, “more sinned against than sinning” or mad. The behavior of her relatives towards her, and especially of her son Charles, all contributed to her mental instability, and her confinement and the lies told to her there would have affected negatively even the strongest personality. I have long been saddened by her story and have a strong admiration for her tenacity in surviving to old age in spite of it all.
I don’t believe any of the stories perpetuated against Juana to indicate her “madness”. Knowing a bit more about her sister Catherine’s behavior, I don’t believe she ever had public, violent arguments with anyone, especially her somewhat intimidating, highly respected mother, or used vile language. She no doubt was deeply depressed and grieving after the death of her husband, but deep grief is not insanity, it would have resolved in time and not necessarily hampered her ability to rule. This was nothing but a power grab by the men who surrounded her, including compliant Catholic clergy, who would have done anything asked of them to get a new cathedral or palace built for them in return for their lies. This particular nasty trick, “madness” of the woman, had been used frequently throughout history and I think the more capable and independent a woman was, the more likely it was to be used against her. Compliant or less-capable women would have been allowed to maintain the title and dignity of sovereign with the true power held by the men who ruled “in her name”. As the ancient saying goes: quo bono? Look to who gained what and there’s the answer.
Her Grandmother suffered from mental illness as well as her great grandson Carlos. Ferdinand did what was necessary to save Castilla. All that black legend from the Protestant is nothing but lies.
Also she was pregnant, it's possible her hormones might have made her a bit volatile but again that's not insanity
It is and always has been a game of follow the money, no?!?
Born and raised spaniard- i never believed she was mad. She was used, heavily, by everyone around her.
Thanks for covering her life!
Thank you for including Spain’s history in your channel. 😊
Ive always been fascinated by her story and never thought she was "mad", it always appeared to me like a story concocted by the men around her to keep her from having any sort of power and agency
I have heard many stories of Juana la loca. Being of Spanish/Mexican descent, there were so many stories. Her family and husband were horrible to her.
There is a line in the movie "Steel Magnolias" when Shirley McLean's character Wheezer, claimed that she not crazy, she's just been in a very bad mood for the last 30 years.
I believe that Juanna suffered from both what is known today as.clinical and situational depression. If.a heavy dose of Royal inbreeding is factored in, I think that is pretty much a wonder that this sort of behavior was anything more than a normal day to day experience in most of the Royal houses of the time.
Seems that no one was really happy during this time and the only reason that misery enjoys company is to involve or even create others that are more miserable than you just so you can feel better.
Both Juana and Catalina had such sad, sad lives. Betrayed by those closest to them.
Thank you for your work, Dr. Kat. Queen Juana is my 14th great-grandmother. I do not see madness in the accounts of her life, only machinations. Deep in my cellular memory I feel innate outrage for the crimes perpetrated against a thousand years of my female ancestors. So many were women of wisdom and strength used as pawns by the power hungry men in their lives. They were the mad ones.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 One of your 16384 14th grandmothers! To take this as relevant is ridiculous.
@@lavieestduresansconfiture4939 She is relevant to me. And because we each have many ancestors does not alter the significance of each individual tree in the vast forest. Life is indeed hard without jam.
I just found your video on U-tube a few hours ago. Last night I discovered that she is my 16th Great Grandmother, and also my line of descent from Maximillian 1, 17 Great Grandfather. I am just getting over all my close relatives who were wives and mistresses of Henry VIII. He was a 1st Cousin about 14 times removed. My ancestors were Aurthur Plantagenet Henry VIII 's uncle, and Mary Boleyn who was one of his mistresses. So interesting to have so many relatives executed during his Reign. Yet I can't claim a drop of Tudor blood. Thanks again Dr. Kat!!!
She is my ancestor as well, along with most of the world's royal families. I myself have Bipolar Disorder. I often wonder if everyone today who suffers from genetic mental disorders, got it from them.
At least one lesson of poor Juana's life is that loyalty (and submission) should be reciprocal, and carefully given.
I’m so excited for this episode. Super strong feelings about how her father and her son took advantage of the history of what we now call mental illness in her maternal lineage but I’m dying to hear your take!
Her father, her son and her husband too.
My mother and I did a lot of cooperative research into Juana, her mother and the history around them, and I'm now neck-deep in re-examining Juana's life, reading the relatively new works from Gillian Fleming and Bethany Aram. Looking forward to Dr Kat's views on this terrible life story.
They're all inbred, so they're all 'mad'.
@@melenatorr I thought I remembered her husband being involved too but since his death contributes to the talk about Juana’s mental illness, I couldn’t be sure and didn’t want to say anything wrong. Thank you for clarifying that!
@@AgnesC1111 Well, so far as it goes ... without excusing the intolerable things they did, neither Isabel nor Fernando seemed particularly "mad"; nor did daughter Catherine. I'm becoming convinced that a great deal of what's come down to us about Juana has been blown way out of proportion, especially when we have several letters and reports from people who managed to break past physical barriers set by Philip, Fernando or Charles, and who said she seemed not only all right but sharp, intelligent, and capable. Enriquez, the Admiral of Castile, knew her very well. While in Castile in 1506, Philip was trying to convince everyone she was unfit. Enriquez spent 10 hours in close conversation with her and disagreed. Her secretary stated she had more common sense than Isabel.
@@leiamar84 The sad thing is, the couple did start out fairly well: they even had a question and answer motto. Philip's translated to "Who wants it?" and Juana's was "I do".
On more important matters, things got bad very quickly:
Instead of doweries, a sort of mutual allowance for both Juana and Margaret (Philip's sister, sent to marry Juan, Juana's brother) was set up. Philip almost never supplied Juana with these funds, which she needed to pay her household and to grow a coalition of loyalty around her.
Her basic mission was to uphold Spanish interests in Flanders, but Philip's advisors were pro-French and political tensions began to grow and only got catastrophically worse. He (and/or his advisors - Philip was affable, but intellectually lazy) began spreading negative news about Juana as soon as her status as heir to Castile emerged.
During the last months of Isabel's life, Philip sent reports of Juana's behavior which may or may not have been fully accurate. But in a typically-foxy twist, Fernando took these reports after Isabel's death to bolster his own position against Philip .... but ultimately against his own daughter. Philip was never a match for Fernando. Unfortunately, though Juana may have been, she was at a disadvantage before she ever even started.
Betrayed by both father and son, dragging her husband’s decaying body along with her. No wonder they chose to conveniently lock her up as “mad”. I have nothing but contempt for Ferdinand of Aragon, lying to his dying wife and stealing his daughter’s inheritance ! Thank you Dr. Kat for speaking for the marginalized!
Ferdinand saved Castilla and Aragon from the foreigner!
Similarly to her niece- Mary.
I've seen some questions raised before about Juana's alleged "madness". Really appreciate the level of depth you've gone into here, not just contextualizing the claims, but also talking about the biases of the different sources (and whether their claims were consistent with other actions at the time). Englightening and engaging video!
Thank you, Dr. Kat, for correcting the 'popular,' patriarchal record about another woman oppressed and undone by the men around her. I am reminded of so many of your previous talks, for example talks about Queen Mary I, Anne of Cleves, and so many others. Thank you for your truthful, feminist, revisionist, and necessary historical corrections. 💜
Thank you for this! I had not heard of the “gaslighting” on the part of Denia and Carlos V, but this only solidifies my contempt for all of the men in her life. None of Isabel’s children escaped early death or tragedy. Again, thank you for this post.
I think depression is certainly on the table. She lost a LOT of loved ones in a short space of time, coupled with losing a husband that she was madly in love with. The poor woman was broken, and treated so poorly by her power-hungry father
Great video. Great to have some non-British history. But such a sad story! Poor Juana!
I think poor Juana was a pawn in the games of her father, husband and son. Her son should have had more regard for the well being of his mother than he did. Such a shame that her life was a misery.
It's how males treat women all throughout history.
I only found you recently through the Jane Austen "Balls" documentary and am enjoying your content. I love the questions you ask.
I enjoy television dramas which make me inquire more deeply into history and The Spanish Princess introduced me to Juana. In 2019 I walked Camino Frances and spent a few extra days in Madrid where I went to the Prado and saw the famous painting...truly awe-inspiring in its size, and wondrous depiction of the scenes described from the journey.
Psychology is complicated. Hearing Juana’s story, and all the various diagnoses that were hurled her way, it seems that many key things were missed. The issue of her environment must be considered and how she was treated by those who locked her up. That in itself would lead to trauma and could, in turn actually have with it some psychological issues. These could have been addressed in our time, but we can’t look back in time and judge a person for not having treatment that wasn’t available. We will never know for sure, but with certain clues being there, like the trip to England, I do not see a clear cut case for a debilitating illness. At most something that was brought on by the very people who were declaring her unfit to begin.
I’ve wanted to hear the story of Juana “the Mad” and strongly suspected she was maligned by her detractors. Thank you!
Have always found the story of Juana fascinating. I'm not convinced she was mad, but clearly, anything is possible. She was extraordinarily bright and talented. I think the three significant men in her life were very suspicious. I'm glad you have chosen to cover her story. Thank you, Dr. Kat.
There is plenty of evidence of her mental illness. She didn’t want to reign, Ferdinand literally saved Castilla.
@Di :3 where? I would be very interested to see 'plenty' of evidence and by whom.
@Di :3 be also interested to know if you have read either of the authors mentioned by Dr. Kat?
@@bettinapartridge3434 Spanish scholars. probably hard for you to dig into if you don't speak Spanish.
Commenting before I watch, BUT in anticipation of another brilliant bedtime video (it's midnight here in malaysia), i wanted to ask;
I recently watches your video on our misconceptions around literacy during the tudor period, and enjoyed it immensely, and wondered if you would consider doing a similar video on just how violent the life of the average person living in tudor England was? I think we are often presented with the idea that life was "nasty, brutish and short", with the threat of extreme violence around every corner (especially for women) but would the life of the average villager really be so lacking in peace?
Right, now to settle in and watch this video!
I am enjoying the conversation below and even though this was done five months ago I’m just seeing it now and want to offer my thanks for this channel. As a history minor and later, getting my PhD in religious history, I find these stories of historical figures that I had not heard of incredibly intriguing, and your coverage of them is perfect. Much like I encourage my students to think for themselves, you encourage us to weigh the evidence and think for ourselves. By the way in which you presented the evidence this particular time leads me to believe that she was not insane by any means. She may, however, have truly been grieving her husband and the life that maybe she wanted to have with him when she acted out against the women that he was involved with and then other courtiers, and so maybe it was somewhere in between? perhaps she was experiencing some depression and yet at the same time she was also being very careful within the confines that she was given to try and protect her self, her children, etc. I agree with someone who mentioned earlier that elizabeth may have learned from her. I’m sure many a Monarch heard the cautionary tale and decided to try a different tack because of it. I do see similar references to Mary queen of Scots as to her mental health, so it would not be unheard of that this tactic would be used regularly to control women even at the highest rank and ability. we certainly see enough diagnoses of hysteria in the 19th century and schizophrenia in the 20th century used to control women. Thank you again.
Very fascinating, I never knew she was a real person! Growing up I always heard my grandmother (who was born in Mexico City but my family lives in the States now) use the phrase “como Juana la loca” but i always thought it was just an expression!! Now that we’ve seen in our lifetimes examples of women in positions of immense wealth and status be completely taken advantage of by her hangers-on and abused by people trying to advance themselves by doing so I think we have so much more an idea of all the times in the past we have heard stories of “crazy women” who “needed” to be kept basically hostage. So sad but so interesting to finally get a more nuanced take on this history, thank you so much for sharing!
Yey! Thanks, Dr. Kat for making this video! I loved it! Excellent Spanish pronunciation by the way. Enhorabuena!.
Some thoughts:
1) I think Juana was very likely emotionally neglected since childhood, surely traumatized, and literally tortured by the people who were supposed to love her, so I am not a psychologist but is possible she developed PTSD, mental illness, or had a personality disorder that was amplified by the conditions she endured (Stockholm syndrome also comes to mind) Nowadays she will be treated with therapy, medication, and/or a change in her living conditions and relationships and perhaps have a reasonably normal and successful life.
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2) I think perhaps the problem of a woman ruling Castille and Aragon (united) was not as big in Castille (given her mother's precedent) as it was in Aragon where women couldn't inherit the crown of Aragon and that was a very complicated matter to resolve without causing a big crisis in Aragon. In fact, soon after Isabella's death, Ferdinand remarried and tried to have a male heir but died after birth.
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3) Legally I think that when Juana married Phillip nobody considered her an heir-to-be (because so many unimaginable tragedies had to occur for her to be the heir) so, perhaps there wasn't a proper agreement of marriage with Phillip taking into consideration the rights and the limits her husband as King consort of Castile and Aragon should have, i.e.: like the one Isabela and Ferdinand made regulating the King consort limits.
4) As to why didn't Ferdinand support his daughter Juana more: Also, why didn't Isabella support her daughter more? Is said that Isabella wasn't confident of Juana's capabilities, so maybe he was just following Isabella's last wishes? / Or maybe, in his mind, some women (like Isabella) were more equal to men than others? / Perhaps, he saw Phillip Hasburg as the root of all Juana's problems yet once Phillip was removed Juana didn't behave as expected? / Could it be that the character assassination of Juana went so far that rehabilitating her after Phillip's death was not possible? / Or simply Ferdinand didn't like his daughter? Did he resent her for surviving while his heir Juan died? Is not exaggerated for me to assume that Ferdinand II had grief transformed into anger directed at Juana.
Again thanks for the video, fascinating subject
Thank you very much for this insightfull and sympathetic video. Juana deserves a wider knowledge and recognition of her life story. And, in my humble opinion, you did her justice by pointing out this centurys old "Juana the Mad"-narrative.
Personally, i think she was betrayed and so to say buried alive by her own Family, and not mentally ill.
She has that recognition in the Spanish speaking world.
@@di3486 i know. I'm from Germany, and "stumbled" over her Story many years ago by Chance. I think it's important to give non-spanish-speakers the opportunity to learn about Juana. Wich Dr. Kat did with this Video 😊
@@anja7168 Particularly as the mother of Charles V!
Thank you thank you thank you so much for calling her Juana! The internet seems stuck on referring to her as Joanna and that really grinds my gears.
I think you vindicated Juana and I’m very happy you did so. I hope somehow, somewhere..she knows!
Fascinating story, well told! I would purely love to see a movie based on your take on this story. Your research is exhaustive, your perspective is balanced; with a really good cast and an accurate costumier it would be a movie we'd watch over and over. Thank you! What a great start to our day!
Yes, write a film script, you would do a fabulous job!
Julia Giles: There is a 2001 film called "Mad Love" or "Juana la Loca," with Pilar López de Ayala portraying Juana. Alas, it is not terribly accurate -- but at least it suggests that Juana was sane. I agree with you: Dr. Kat would create a better script if she simply told the truth about Juana.
Absolutely fantastic video! I have read a lot about her and my opinion is that she was betrayed by her Father, husband and son. They wanted power and that was the only way to get it.
I really admire you. My eyesight is bad, it's not safe for me to walk down the street without my glasses, it's not that bad. I push myself through difficult situations because of you. I'm disabled but if this blind dude can surf, I can do this! TY 😻
It's amazing how long trauma has been misdignosed as mental illness. It's 2024 and we are finally recognizing this fact. Always enjoy your spin on history. I often come back and watch again and always learn something new. Thanks Dr. Kat. 👑
Just like Erzebet (Elizabeth) Bathory and her serial killing story, I’ve always wondered how much of this story is true for Joanna/Juana. It’s so wild to think in a time where women had so few rights vs men, and her then being from a family that had more equal women ruling figures , that she ended up with a shite man who needed to do away with her in many ways just to gain control. Ick. I see so many parallels between the king in Erzebet Bathory story (aside from murders piece) where the king may have staged a story to take the power of the money and estate of a woman. I think from what I’ve studied over the last years that Juana probably had SOME form of being “out of line/out of control” but to lock her away just doesn’t seem right or ok and had a lot more to do with men and power than what Juana truly was. There are examples of her being Lucid that seems many found her to be fine.
It's very common for people who have some kind of mental stability to have that used as an excuse to have them declared unfit to whatever other people want to take control of. It's not easy to do that without any precedent that can be blown out of proportion (although certainly possible), but fully capable people with some sort of mental issue are frequently victims of that kind of stuff
I see some important similarities between Juana's life experience and what happened to the Empress Mathilda. Both were on the receiving end of plots to sideline them. In both cases the continual emotional turmoil had to cause injuries.
In the case of the Empress, she had nobles who for years went to battle for her. Juana had no real battle hardened warriors loyal to her.
Both ended their lives basically sequestered.
I didn't know anything about Juana before, that is the magic of your videos... you make me care about historical figures who I had been previously unaware of. Thanks for the great content!
Thank you so much! The struggle between love and power was obviously the largest factor of Juanas life, and a horrific abuse of her by those that she loved. Wonderful talk, Dr. Kat. I knew this was a subject you would be able to put some teeth on! Imo Juana was possibly fragile mentally but only because of trauma ,grief , and conflicting emotions about her abusers.
I feel for her. Many have declared madness in a spouse to get ahead or just get rid of the other
Man, I love this channel and this, about a character I never thought much about, is the best yet. I want to learn more now about Juana
Excellent point about Juana's supposed madness not being serious enough that her husband, who otherwise lead the charge of proclaiming her mad, thought she was competent to handle sexual relations, pregnancy, and childbirth. I try to have sympathy for her son, since at 16 years old he was also likely a puppet for older, more experienced men to some degree or another, but geez was he a terrible kid. She really showed a mother's love to not support the rebels offering her freedom (or "freedom" since of course it'd have strings attached) in order to protect her son.
I would dispute that Phillip necessarily found Juana sufficiently sane to have sex with. After all, he was her husband and he had the right to use her body when he saw fit irrespective of her state of health, mental or physical, whether it was to her detriment or not. All he had to do was give her clip over the ear to subdue her and get on with the business of his conjugal rights
@@jandrews6254 Did you miss the part where I said "sexual relations, pregnancy, and childbirth?"
Good evening, Dr. Kat!
I've enjoyed your videos for a very long time.
I was particularly pleased in the way you covered the history of Juana of Castile in a sympathetic light.
Only one other historian, Townsend Miller, did so in his "The Castles and the Crowns."
Miller stated that Juana was the most intelligent of her family but also somewhat finally tuned and her neurotic behavior began to manifest itself only after she had been sent to the Netherlands to marry Philip of Habsburg.
There, despite being in lust with her husband ( To quote William Cecil about the marriage of Robert Dudley and Amy Robsart, "A marriage begun in lust and ended in sorrow"), she was isolated politically, economically ( as part of the double marriage between herself and Philip and her brother and Philip's sister, no dowries were exchanged) and socially. Philip's frequent love affairs did not help her achieve peace of mind, either.
Both Philip and her father portrayed her as mad to keep power in their own hands and when her father finally imprisoned her in Tordesillas, her jailers sought to drive her mad.
On the other hand, Juana's older sister Isabel suffered from melancholy after her first husband's death and Isabel the Catholic's own mother spend the last decades of her life in confinement because of her mental derangement, so Juan came by her neurotic behavior quite honestly.
Thanks for sharing!
You could talk about Juan and his dog, Bruto. It's a sad and sweet story. Bruto was a very good boy.
There's another good boy a few centuries later: Emily Bronte's huge mastiff dog, Keeper, accompanied the family to the church for Emily's funeral.
From my point of view, Juana suffered from an acute depression worsened by the death of her husband. In addition to his, his temper was the perfect excuse for Phillip to put her aside during his bid to take the crown and then also used by her father and her son. Her behaviour after Phillip's death has been so deeply manipulated and rewritten that, frankly speaking, I do not dare to try even to explain what happen then.
So glad I came across this episode. I took a walking tour just last month in Ghent and we discussed Juana, Phillip, and Charles as well as statues. ❤
Wow, you've totally shifted my understanding of Queen Juana!! This was fascinating, thank you!!
dr kat i just want to say thank you for everything you do🫶🏻 this video and all your others are presented in such a way that even someone like me, who has really severe adhd, can easily take in every word and digest it. i dont need the information to be written down or beaten into my head, but just presented in a concise, well-paced and interactive manner. i cant even imagine what a great teacher you’d be irl. i always agree with everything you say, and when you bring up your dyslexia, it just reminds me that all of us neurodivergent girlies can be and ARE just as brilliant and well put together as you are. again, thank you for these videos. they keep me sane ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Juana's obsession with her husband's corpse, refusing to bury the body and taking it everywhere with her was certainly odd. and rightly raised questions about her sanity. BUT there is great reason to believe her father was intent on continuing to rule Castile and had every reason to have her declared insane and she spent the next 30 years of her life in isolation in a castle in the middle of nowhere. So there's a bit of both. She submitted to interviews during the period of her enforced isolation but was still find to be sensible. So who knows.
Although it's been shown that the stories of her obsession were just that: stories. Her plan was to transport the body from the north to Granada for burial near Isabel (and this was Philip's own wish). She used the opportunity as an attempt to get out of the hands of Cisneros, who was acting as regent and was initiating a power struggle with her. They were all waiting for Fernando to get back to Castile. He was in Naples and Aragon all this time, attending to business and testing the wind in Castile. Biding his time.
My morning just got considerably better. Thanks Dr. Kat for my history fix!!!💜
Wow this is all so fascinating, I didn't know the half of it! I used to live in Spain for many years and first came across 'Juana La Loca' in James Michener's 'Iberia', in the chapter where he visits Tordesillas. The parade of fake coffins, dios mio, Spain truly is a land of the Gothic and the surreal! And it was years before I realised that Juana was Catherine of Aragon's sister. Dr Kat, I'm really enjoying your articulate and balanced talks on these historical topics, thank you.
by the sound of it the only sign of "insanity" (as opposed to probably crushing depression and anxiety she otherwise had to live with due to actions of her family) was her treatment of her husband's corpse. If true, she may have had mental breakdown, and the pregnancy may have exaggerated her symptoms. This does not mean she was "mad" - a lot of people would probably struggle in this situation
I am leaving. Not because I dislike your channel, far from it. It has given me hours of immense joy and plenty of intellectual fulfillment. It just doesn't work for me any more. I owe you great gratitude, because you found it in you to hear me out when very fiew else would. Don't fret, this is not a suicide note, I'm just entering a new phase right now. Thank you for everything, Dr Kat!
I'm so excited! She is my 14th great-grandmother...and as you can see, I'm named after. Her father...uuggghh!!!
She was surrounded by men who viewed her as a means to an end of their being able to capture her power...for themselves. Men are not accustomed to powerful, intelligent women and have to resort to alluding the women are "crazy" in order to usurp their power, taking advantage of the woman's perceived physical weakness in obtaining their power.
I just commented above. She is also MY 14th great-grandmother! Hola, my prima Juana.
If hatred of your husband's mistresses is a sign of violent insanity, I have to wonder why mental hospitals aren't bursting at the seams!
Intelligent, well-educated woman entitled to a great deal of power. Power-hungry men able to exert physical control of said woman. Did it matter whether she was mad or not?
Really interesting. I see how treating her husband's body like that would have been a good way of reminding everyone of his and thus HER status. I'd never thought of that angle but actually that would be a clever PR move although if he was good looking and charismatic she probably did have strong feelings for him as well. Nowadays we are all being subjected to that sort of gas lighting.
The men in her life wanted her power. They wanted her to be mad, it worked in their favor. Poor Lady!
If you get told something about yourself enough, you can come to believe it. If I were locked up like that, if everyone was telling me I was insane...if enough time passed... It would be easy to play at madness for political/marital reasons and then to have everyone else run away with it.
I enjoy watching you, Dr Kat. It feels like time spent with a friend you want to hear more from about what they are interested in.
Great video! I'm Spaniard so I'm familiarised with Juana's story, legend, and speculations about her mental health. Her life was romanticised by a lot of Romantic writers.
You should look into Galician noblewoman Inés de Castro. Her forbidden love with the then prince of Portugal Pedro I, her assassination, and his revenge against her killers once he was crowned king are book and film material.
Her half sister, Juana de Castro "la desamada" (the unloved?) also had an "interesting" life. She married Pedro "The Cruel" of Castile but he was already married to Blanca de Borbon. Their marriage was declared invalid and Juana retired to a castle. She was lucky, tho. Blanca, on the other hand, was imprisoned and assassinated by her husband's orders. He was an ass.
Absolutely! Wonderful story... And Doña Urraca, the first European queen regnant
I definitely think Philip was a cold, cold man, possibly disordered himself. As for Juana, I have read a couple stories of her acting erratic (climbing the walls outside her parent's castle while screaming, frothing, etc., carving with a knife into the floor to get to the floor below when her husband locked her up in a room). If these stories are to be believed, she did seem at least to possibly have had a couple mental breakdowns at the very least, but this doesn't make you crazy, people in those days just didn't understand mental health, and the fact that she was a woman made her easier to throw away. However, according to the book Sister Queens by Julia Fox, Juana was not allowed to meet her sister or Henry VII for very long during her stay in England supposedly because Philip tried to keep her from them (either because she was mad or because he didn't want people to see she was sane).
I would have to err towards the latter reasoning for Phillip trying to keep her from interacting with them.
It certainly makes the most purely logical (if rather sick) sense.
He couldn't risk having his narrative undermined.
a case can be made for all of the possibilities that you prepose while the romantic in me would love to pick the betrayed queen option i think the only right choice is not to pick any option and just enjoy the speculations and your video
Wanted to learn more about my great grandmother ❤ bless her strength that I may be walking today!!
Simply brilliant, as usual. Thank you for such an excellent discussion.
I was looking for a deep dive history channel featuring someone with a soothing voice, then i see that one of your most recent videos is about Juana of Castile…I don’t think I’ve ever clicked subscribe so fast! Would you ever consider making content about any of Juana’s descendants, the Habsburgs?
This is my first time watching a video of yours & I really enjoyed it. you ask great questions to consider in the conversations that haven’t been asked enough. it triggers my personal passion for behaviour & emotion reading so here's my rambling logic
In my personal opinion, this is a narcissistic abuse situation for that time period. The decisions made & reactions are just so precise to this particular pattern, I have a hard time not viewing it as this. Plus there’s the social fundamentals of the time as well, sexism & self importance & social hierarchy which cast a filter on how the information is presented & digested. Here are some shared patterns for the people involved in these situations:
Juana, the main victim:
1. Intense devotion while being love bombed
2. Intense confusion when love become contradictory & painful
3. Anger issues after prolonged pain
4. Emotional immaturity after prolonged pain
5. Brainwashed behaviour, loving someone who you know brings you pain because there’s nothing else that you’ve been given purpose for
6. Complete devotion to their children, a purpose in life that is undeniably connected to her existence (value)
7. Patterns of emotional immaturity
8. Previous role models in her developmental years appear to have the same type of behaviour (father, brothers, owners, masters, husbands)
9. Complete mistrust & distancing from others
10. Disagreeable/unlikeable martyring behaviours
11. Mirroring/reflecting of narcissistic behaviours
12. Is highly isolated when they don’t want to be
13. Will choose isolation when the situation changes because isolation is the most familiar feeling after prolonged endurance of it
14. Impaired socialization. Could be too talkative, accusational, angry, giddy, awkward, etc. The isolation limited her social setting so it limited her social interactions & experiences.
15. Compassion fatigue & then guilt cycle
16. Close people retaliate & lash out on her behalf
Child of the narcissistic abuse relationship:
1. Ends up resenting the victimized parent & will begin distancing behaviour where possible. Most notable when the child gets to an age of independence
2. At young ages children will relate most to the parent who has the most influence on them. No matter how loving & nurturing or hateful & neglectful, a violent temper or painful damage will be more overpowering to a child. Then they’ll usually appeal & submit to the biggest threat they perceive, so if there’s intense pain in their environment, they’ll be reacting to the cause of the pain the most. Usually a good abuser identification tool that’s become weakened with overuse for an under experienced person using this tool. It’ll break & the user will be too young to repair it, then usually a parental narcissistic abuse relationship gets joined by a romantic narcissistic abuse relationship. The child will either become the narcissist & the victim of a narcissist, or they’ll just be a continued victim of narcissism
3. Children usually relate to the parent with the same gender as them first
4. Emotional regulation issues
5. Compassion fatigue & confusion
Narcissist:
1. Love bombs to captivate
2. Attracted to emotional people who display emotions they normally aren’t comfortable/familiar with
3. Becomes competitive with the authentic person’s emotional displays either by frustration for weakness or negativity associated with the emotions or jealous of the authentic person’s comfort with the uncomfortable or strength to endure it. Lashes out & mistreats the person
4. Realizes how much they crave the attention or resource the authentic person offers them & love bombs them again. Will deepen & pressure the feeling of love as much as needed, shamelessly & often violently in one if not multiple ways (emotionally, psychologically, socially, physically, financially, sexually, etc)
5. Devotes time & effort to a smear campaign to make memories of the victim appear to be more problematic than they actually are while simultaneously trying to hide themselves
6. Intense self victimization without emotional or compassionate growth or maturity
7. Relishes in both power & victimhood simultaneously even when it’s contradictory
8. Refusal to make personal sacrifices. Usually manifests as the other person being severely put down for the compensation to take place. Often shows as health issues from the prolonged stress in the victims
9. Has multiple victims & will have them do their bidding by framing their own perpetrating behaviour as someone else’s fault somehow, so the anger gets deferred to someone else. Pits people against each other.
10. Will send people after the victim to harass & intimidate them. The less the love bombing works, the more intense the harassment & the accusations will be
11. Threatens & bullies easily & often, though it might not often be in front of more than a few people at a time. This keeps others from criticizing & contradicting in a way that might reveal their lies & bad behaviour
I could go on quite a bit. The main decider for me is a person that’s truly “mad” or mentally broken doesn’t have the strength to resist. They could’ve convinced, abused & coerced her into a lot of useful ventures & signatures if she was mentally dependent. But the shift from intense dependency on him while maintaining intense independent self control in front of him until she was really breaking with hormones & being worn down is big for me. Then the refusal to obey & come back, even when they started out nice & diplomatic & described her of sound mind even if it was transactionally….it’s giving emotional reactivity when they changed it. She seems pretty resolute throughout imprisonment too. The types of mental illness they describe display instability far quicker than it seems like she has in situations like imprisonment. If she was acting out a lot, they would’ve had a ton of publication with unique events that were ammunition to slander. They don’t, they have a lot of publication with little uniqueness so they’re repetitive as if no one learned anything from the first times it was happening. My hypothesis for the smear campaign is if she was such an interesting case study during the time of publishing the gossip & news, there would’ve more consolidated archives of more detailed & unique examples from repeated exposure to their claims.
Hormones & health issues definitely don’t help either. Especially pregnancy ones, where there’s constant reminders of personal & bodily sacrifice by someone else who may not even value your bodily & sexual consent if they’re already removing all your social consent & disregarding your humanity. During a time with high childbirth mortality for women. A lot of emotions to go around with very few solutions, that’s not madness that’s a typical response to an overpressurized situation. the contents of the situation tend to explode
I'm excited for this episode!
Let us just say, that I believe wanna was terribly I'm hearing lots of self-protection measures being taken by her because she is in such a delicate position and should have power they don't want her to have.
fantastic thanks very much
I think Juana was way to smart for her own good at the wrong time and in the wrong place
Some scholars assert that she was the brightest out of her siblings
Loved this video 😊 I had always heard about Juana la Loca. A few months ago I came across TH-cam clips of La Corona Partida. This was a Spanish novella that went into the lives of Isabel and Ferdinand Castille and Aarogan and then the life of Juana. This was actually a pretty good TV series. The series aired in 2016 and does have English subtitles.
Thank you for your in-depth look at this fascinating woman. Like her mother, Isabel, she was a threat to the men around her. I appreciate the breadth of information you provided for this long misunderstood and misrepresented woman.
Beautifully done, Dr. Kat. I enjoy your videos so very much!
With some of your videos, like this one, my instant reaction is: 'Hey, you knew I'd wanted to know this before I did'.
Amazing video - one of your best yet, Dr. Kat. I enjoy your balanced account. Why does Juana not have her own Netflix series yet? Why does Dr. Kat not have her own Netflix documentary yet??
I think her willingness to travel through Francis just a sign of being a brilliant politician I mean either she's able just to pass through or she's accosted and any and all support in her husband's court for France basically banishes instantly and if they detained her even nevermind anyting more serious than that likely that war would almost be immediately declared against them which would Aid her parents it sounds like she was far more politically astute than her parents were
Living in Flanders, this is closer to 'home'. I knew most of it, but not all, so great to discover some more details!
Thank you for this insightful look at a queen I haven’t known much about beyond the “fact” that her madness showed most prominently after the death of her husband. I always put it down to that love being more strongly felt than most because royal marriages were more about “business” than pleasure. I’m am saddened to learn the truth of the matter. I know throughout history women were treated as lesser unless they had strong personalities like Eleanor of Aquitain or came from progressive families who were okay with their daughters being intelligent enough to rule in her own right. I half expect a husband and those in a foreign court to undermine her, but her parents were no different. Thank you for setting the record straight in my mind. I love all of your videos I’ve watched.
Fantastic video. Thoroughly enjoyed from start to finish. I love Kat's content anyway but I particularly loved this topic and discussion.
Dr Kat certainly put forward a very convincing case. The evidence or lack of regarding Juana's purported madness looks so very flimsy.
Dr Kat...thoroughly enjoyed this . Also, want to say...that beautiful violet colour absolutely suits you beautifully. Definitely your colour ...and so royal ..therefore so apropos
I’m on the side of both. I’ve always viewed her as having some genetic madness and some situational madness.Given her family tree it wouldn’t be surprising but those around her made it much much worse.Given the interconnectedness of the royal families and the restrictions the women especially were under I’d be more surprising to not see at least signs of mild mental illness.
I,myself,have mental health issues tied to personal and familial genetics as well as my experiences.
Really interested to hear about this !
Gosh, this narative makes sense of course, because even in the 1800's and earlyish 1900's women were considered 'Hysterical' when they had PMS or depression (or disagree syndrome lol). This is the way it's been all through history. Great video! 🤓 I do not believe she started out mad, however it would be perfectly normal, I think, to go mad from all the abuse and isolation.
I found a super fascinating series that features Juana and most of the main characters of her family called Dynasty it’s in Spanish but they did have from what I recall English subtitles for anyone interested thanks again for the great work Dr. Kat ❤💛🇪🇸
I’m so used to hearing her as “Juana La Loca,” it’s kinda weird to hear the English version lol.
As an abuse survivor, I know the strategy of submission for survival. Juana was highly compliant and, I suspect, felt completely helpless in a world designed to keep her in an ivory tower with men in charge of her person and assets. I think she felt hopeless and powerless, and the men in her life kept her that way. It's ironic that she lived 75 years when everyone else in her family died fairly young. What difference would she have made if she had grasped power and been a stable ruling monarch in an unstable political world?
Wow just came across this video and I can’t believe all the research that went into this. Would you consider making a video about the rise to power of Isabel of Castilla and her secret marriage? I find it to be a really interesting topic.
Ugh. Poor lady! Her life was a harsh example of heartlessness in the pursuit of power, from those who should most have loved and protected her.
I think Juana's greatest misfortune was to be born a woman among a group of power hungry, conniving men. Her father Ferdinand, if I remember correctly, dragged his feet about paying his daughter Catherine's dowry to Henry Tudor and she had to beg for money for basic needs. I don't know anything much about Juana's husband Phillip but assume he was probably cut from the same cloth. Also unfortunately for Juana, she was intelligent and well-educated. That would have made it difficult for her to be entirely submissive. Again, looking to her sister Catherine in England, these two women were not door mats when it came to the machinations of the men around them. A number of the claims of madness seem fabricated. And there would be little she could do to defend herself. Thank you so much for offering up this interesting and intriguing perspective on a poorly used Queen.